Alimak Group AB (publ) (ALIG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Alimak Group Interim Report for Quarter 1 2020. [Operator Instructions] Today, I'm pleased to present Tormod Gunleiksrud, CEO; and Tobias Lindquist, CFO. Speaker, please begin.

Thank you for that, and welcome to this Q1 2020 Results Call. And together with me here, I have, as already said, Tobias Lindquist, our CFO. And we will take you through this, roughly, 0.5-hour presentation of quarter 1. And I think I can say right away that it was a quarter that certainly had its challenges. It was quite a few of them. And we have certainly been on the receiving end of the consequences of the COVID-19 virus outbreak, that is for sure. It started up in China, and we're quite hit in the period outbreak that took place in China and eventually it moved into Europe. And we certainly were hit in Europe as well, and I will get back to that part slightly more in details. We've also had spent quite some time in making sure that we are protecting our employees. We've been doing that by personal protection equipment. And we've been doing that by means of screening them off each other, avoiding close contacts and despite of that, we've had -- people have contracted the virus. We've had cases in Spain, in the production facility in Madrid, and we've also had cases in Dubai. So in total, we have a handful of cases. And suddenly, we also lost one of our employees, in Spain, to the virus. So despite of all protective measures that we've been putting in place, we've still been hit by the virus as well. Business-wise, yes, the output has certainly taken a toll from what we've seen. Still, I have to say that -- and looking at the order side of it, I'm quite pleased to see how we ended up on the quarter. So it basically means that building backlog also that at some stage will come out. Moving down to next page, Page 2, and a little bit deeper on the impact from the COVID-19 virus and what actions or measures that has been put in place in order to, first of all, on protect business, the people side of it that I have already touched upon. And of course, that is our #1 priority, but our second priority is, of course, to conduct the business in as good way as possible given the current circumstances. And if you start with construction equipment, we saw, as I said, people never really coming back from Chinese New Year, end of January, beginning of February as the outbreak started in China. So we were on closing of the factories in China during the whole of February and well into March as well. Towards the end of March, we started to have a full capacity in place in our production facilities in China but we were certainly hit by the consequences of the virus during that period. On the European side, we were not really hit by any consequences from the virus in -- at our construction equipment facility in Skellefteå. So only in April, we have seen the effect of that. And as of April 20, we introduced a 4-days week for roughly nearly 80% of our employees in Skellefteå as a result of the business around the globe. And those are the sort of adoptions that are currently in place when it comes to the construction side of the business. On the Rental business side, what we have seen is that we've been experiencing restricted access to a construction site. It varies slightly between -- at the markets that we are serving. You might remember that we are basically active in Australia, Germany, Benelux and France when it comes to the Rental side. And we are basically all over the scale when it comes to access to construction sites in these markets. We have France, who have seen a complete lockdown of the construction sites that they are serving with equipment and people. While we have seen restrictions, but still site being available to us in Australia, and the same in Germany and also in the Benelux side. So the effects have varied a little bit when it comes to the consequences that we have seen during quarter 1 this year. And these restrictions have also then led to temporary reductions of workforce in the affected countries, so measures have been put in place from that perspective. Industrial Equipment. We've seen production disruptions in China, in Spain, in Germany and in Brazil during Q1. So basically the only site on the industrial side that has not been on the sort of receiving end of any consequences from the outbreak has been our facility in Sweden. While all the others site, as mentioned here, have been subject to partly full closing and partly reductions. We had a full closure of our site in Madrid on the BMU side, while we had also a full closure of the China sites on the industrial side, that goes for Wind and also for the Oil & Gas and the general industry part for rack-and-pinion part of the portfolio. While in Germany, we saw reductions on the capacity, also coming from the supply side. While in Brazil, we had a shorter full closure of the manufacturing facility during the quarter. So it has varied with the full closure in parts of the Spanish entities and also in China and partly in Brazil and to a lesser extent in Germany. Still significant impact on the output and partly also on the supply side during the quarter. What are we spending time on now? The operational focus for Q2 is, of course, to stabilize the production and the supply capabilities. We've had some issues with logistics, so localization is also on that program. So quite a few activities goes into bringing these manufacturing or production facilities after its normal capacity. After Sales, we've seen restricted access to customer sites. And I have to say that this situation that we have seen as an effect of the COVID-19 virus is quite different from what we normally experience during sort of normal cycles, where the After Sales business normally is quite resilient because the character of this crisis means that customers do avoid visits from third parties personnel to only the amount of people or people that is needed due to absolute emergency on their side, on the customer side. And that has led to a very restricted access for our service people to access customers' assets. And I think, probably one of the best examples on that is, if you look at the Oil & Gas business, they were quite quick in closing down all access for not absolutely necessary third-party personnel because I guess it goes without saying that an outbreak of the virus on one of the offshore installations would mean a disaster to any of the operators out there. So that was closed down quite rapidly. However, we see now as of last week, we have seen that they have started to open up again, so we see some improvement in that situation. Anyway, looking at the Q1, we certainly saw some reduced utilization following the safety precautions that were then put in place, I should say, both on the customer side as well as on our side. But we also early decided that we believe that this is a business that is coming back, service engineers, service technicians are sort of scarce resources. And we decided not to put in place any permanent redundancies, as we have a strong belief that a lot of the business is also coming back as pent-up demand, and it's also a good reason to keep that competency in the group as layoffs -- permanent layoffs still would have not come without a cost, and that's rationale behind it. In addition to that, we are, of course, also applying for whatever programs or packages that local governments are offering, putting in place to protect the businesses around the globe. And we are, of course, applying for whatever is applicable in the different countries. I think, as you know, I also just mentioned that in addition to the businesses, we have also continued to have focus on the R&D side of our activities. We strongly believe that this crisis will, at some stage in not too instant future, will come to an end. And I think it's important to also use this time to make sure that we are coming out on the other side, even stronger than when we went into the phase of it. Moving on to next page, takes us to Page 3 and some highlights of the quarter. And starting on the order side, we saw a decrease of 3% reported and the organic decrease of 5% on the Oil side for the quarter, taking the total order intake to SEK 1.067 billion versus previous year, SEK 1.1 billion. We saw a drop on Construction with a drop on Industrial Equipment. I think for the Construction side of it, I think it's important to bear in mind that it was a fairly tough comparison on -- versus Q1 last year. So I have to say that looking at sequential side of it, with one improvement at a level that we had not seen since Q1 last year. So all in all, I'm quite happy with the orders that came through on the Construction side. On the Industrial Equipment side, I think despite the level we ended up with, it's still a good underlying demand, solid pipeline. So I'm still sort of optimistic for going forward. Rental, After Sales saw improved order side. And of course, that is good to see. So all in all, on the order side, I think it was a decent quarter. Revenue-wise, we saw a decrease with 21% and organic decrease of 23%, taking the revenues to SEK 916 million versus previous year, SEK 1.17 billion, and we saw lower volumes in all business areas. And this would mostly put on the impact from the virus outbreak, in addition to the fact that we had limited access on After Sales. But also, as we said when we did the Q4 presentation, we went into the year with a lower backlog than we have done before. And of course, that has also an effect on the revenues that came out in Q1. EBITDA adjusted decreased to SEK 79 million. Looking at that isolated, it is, of course, an disappointing result versus last year, SEK 153 million. We ended up on a adjusted -- EBITDA adjusted margin at 8.7% versus last year, 12.9%. And here, we saw the impact from the reduced output, in particular, on the Industrial Equipment side and also the effects on -- of the sales that took a toll in quarter 1 this year. Moving down to next page, Page 4, takes us into Construction Equipment. Order intake decrease of 15%, 18% organically, ended up at SEK 179 million versus last year, SEK 212 million. I already said that it was a tough comp. And I think it is still good to look at the sequential side of that because we're beating the previous 3 quarters in that respect. And I think it's good to see that countries or regions that we've been talking about for quite a few of the previous quarters, U.K. and the Nordics came back with quite strong figures, in particular, I should say, U.K. that came in very strong for the quarter. And it is good to see that some of these countries that were somehow disappointing last year started to deliver on more normal levels, I should say, in quarter 1. So all in all, I'm quite pleased to see the orders that came through on the Construction side in quarter 1. Revenue-wise, we saw a decrease of 40%, 42% organically, took the revenue to SEK 124 million versus last year, SEK 208 million. Already touched upon the fact that we had a low backlog at the beginning of this year. Add to that, the closing of the factory in China during last part of Q1, basically led to these revenue levels. EBITA adjusted ended up at SEK 12 million versus last year, SEK 30 million, that left us with a margin of 9.7%, and down from last year, 14.5%. And it's basically an effect of the lower volumes and the corresponding utilization that comes with that. Moving down to next page, Page #5, takes us into business area, Rental. And here, it's good to see that for the quarter, we had an increase of 24% on order intake to SEK 113 million versus last year, SEK 90 million. And in that respect, I would, in particular, mention Australia, who came in with a very strong quarter on the order side. Revenue-wise, we saw a decrease of 5% for the quarter, 6% down organically to SEK 87 million versus last year, SEK 91 million. Given the circumstances and the limitations on the access side of it, I still believe that, that number is quite a decent number. Also, earnings-wise, EBITA adjusted, we ended the quarter on SEK 10 million versus last year, SEK 12 million, left us with a margin of 11.4% versus last year, 13%. So I have to say, given where we are, what we've been through in Q1, I think the Rental side of the business delivered a good -- a solid quarter. Of course, the effects of the outbreak that came first in the last few weeks of March. So we saw a limited effect of that outbreak in the quarter. And I would expect Q2 to face a bit more of a challenge in Q2 than what we saw in Q1. Still, for the quarter, isolated, I think it was a good quarter. Moving down to next page, Industrial Equipment. We saw an order intake decrease of 7%, 9% down organically, ended up at SEK 442 million versus last year, SEK 477 million. We had low orders on Oil & Gas. And we've seen some delays on contracts being awarded in that sector. Hard to tell where that sector is heading with the current oil prices. We've not been quite used to seeing oil prices at a level of below $20 for North Sea oil and sub-$0 levels in U.S. So I guess it's -- it takes some time to figure out where that market is heading. We've also seen some delayed contract signing in the BMU business. But here, we have a strong pipeline and also what we consider being a strong underlying demand. So all in all, I'm fairly optimistic on the Industrial side going forward. Revenue-wise, we saw a decrease of 27%, down 30% organically to SEK 413 million versus previous year, SEK 570 million. And here is really the impact from the COVID-19 that has taken a toll on both the production output as well as the challenges on the supply side of the business. And we're also facing some comparison towards Q1 last year, where there was quite some significant volume in their own power internals related to the Wind business. EBITA-wise, EBITA adjusted ended up at minus 1. That is, of course, disappointing. But I think given where we ended up on the factory side, I think it's also probably something that we could expect, and that left us with a margin of minus 0.3% versus last year, 5.9%. As already said, it's, of course, linked to the factory output and the utilization here as well. I think it is important also to mention that there are different programs in place in different countries. Government instructions about close down, if you take Spain and the factory in Spain, that was not optional to close down the factory. And it was decided that companies are paying salaries in full and the hours that workforce are getting paid for, companies will get that back throughout the year. So there is still some compensation to come in for the hours that have been paid for but work not carried out in that respect. Moving down to next page, Page 7, it takes us into After Sales. And again, happy to see an increase of 4% on order intake, 1% up organically, meaning that we ended up SEK 333 million versus last year, SEK 321 million. And again, we continue to see a good momentum for the After Sales activities in Wind and on the BMU side. While we have seen fewer refurbishment and part orders coming through, maybe also somehow linked to the restrictions that customers have been putting on the access to the plants. Revenue-wise, we had a decrease of 2%, 4% organically, meaning that we ended up at SEK 292 million versus last year, SEK 297 million. And I would basically brought this to the account of restriction that we've been facing on the customer side during the quarter. EBITA adjusted ended up at SEK 59 million versus last year at SEK 78 million and a margin of 20.1% versus last year, SEK 26.2 million. And again, I see this as an effect of the mix that went into the revenue side as well as the utilization rate that came through as a consequence of the precautions put in place both on the customer side as well as on the Alimak Group side. Good. If we then turn to next page, Page #8, and Tobias Lindquist will take us through a summary on the earnings side. So Tobias, please.

Thank you, Tormod. So we are on Page 8, earnings summary. So our EBITA adjusted result for Q1 was SEK 79 million, that was SEK 74 million worse than previous year. Industrial reduced the results with SEK 35 million, After Sales with SEK 19 million and Construction with SEK 18 million. So the result decrease was basically spread across all business areas. And as we mentioned earlier, it was mainly an effect of the lowering revenues. Revenues were down 21%. Our -- of which about half of the decline was relating to the COVID-19 pandemic. Our gross profit margin remained fairly stable. We ended up on 31.7%, which was slight decrease from last year. Our operating expenses reduced by 5%, which was mainly an effect of the cost reduction measures that we put in place in China in Q4. The measures that we put in place now following the pandemic has very limited effect on the Q1 result. Our financial net on minus SEK 14 million was SEK 5 million worse than the last year. And that is mainly our full year result of FX on financial liabilities under this currency losses, whilst our interest net improved during the quarter following lower loans and also lower interest rates. Our taxes was SEK 20 million lower than last year, and that was following the lower earnings before taxes. So we ended up the quarter with a result for the period of SEK 41 million, a decrease of SEK 53 million, all basically coming down from the lower EBITA adjusted result. And moving to the next page, tax expense. So with earnings before taxes of SEK 53 million and tax expense on the quarter of SEK 12 million, we ended up on tax rate on 22% compared to 24% last year. We expect for 2020 to be in the range of 23% to 25% for the year as a hold. If we turn to the next page, Page 10, results for the period and earnings per share. So with the result for the period of SEK 41 million, we ended up on EPS, earnings per share, on SEK 0.76 compared to SEK 1.82 last year. Move to next page, Page 11, cash flow and net debt. We had a positive operating cash flow in the quarter of SEK 12 million compared to SEK 36 million last year. The cash flow was impacted by the reduced result, but also that we had a tax payments of tax liabilities in the quarter of net amount of SEK 126 million. Our working capital, on the other hand, improved in the quarter by SEK 40 million, that was mainly a result of lowering receivables. Lower volumes, it's part of that effect, but also increased focus on the cash management from the group side. Our inventories increased by SEK 40 million in the quarter, partly as a result of delayed shipments but also building up of safety, stock force are the critical components. Our net debt increased slightly in the quarter. We ended up on SEK 1.045 billion at the end of March compared to SEK 1.007 billion at the end of December last year. With that and also with as a result of the lowering result, our leverage was 1.52 versus 1.33 end of December last year, so still on a very healthy level. Overall, we have a strong financial position, positive cash flows, balanced investments and good leverage level. To further increase the flexibility in this uncertain times, the Board has decided to revise their proposal for -- to dividend to SEK 1.75 per share. That would mean that our dividend payment in Q2 would end up on SEK 94 million in total compared to SEK 149 million last year. With that, I hand over back to Tormod.

Thank you for that, Tobias. So if you then move to next page, Page 12, quite sum up the quarter and also give some color on how we see the world right now. Looking at the quarter that we just put behind us, we are still seeing good underlying demand and was also, as I already touched upon, quite pleased with the orders that came through actually bolt-on Construction Equipment side as well as After Sales. Although comparing Construction with Q1 last year, we were down. I think it's still good to look at how we did on the sequential side of it for the quarter. So as I said, I think that was good. We have seen Construction, Industrial Equipment both on the supply side as well as on the production output being impacted from the COVID-19 in the quarter that is behind us. After Sales and Rental business has been impacted by the restrictions put in place on the customer side and for obvious reasons. And I think slowly we come to terms with that and also find ways of conducting the business to take the exposure to absolutely minimum. And that has certainly left us with a weak Q1. How do we then view Q2? I expect Q2 also to be a weak quarter. But I also expect second half of the year, as we also said after Q4, at that time, without the knowledge of the virus outbreak in Europe as it looks today, I still expect the second half of the year to be a better one, stronger one than what we have seen both in Q1 as well as what I would expect coming out of Q3. The group has a strong financial position. We have put strong cash management in place. We've -- Tobias said, we have maintained positive cash flow from our operations. And we will, of course, also use that to perform on the activities that we still are having in our plans, that we still are having in our strategy, so that the leading market position and the global footprint that we have can still be developed and give us an even more solid foundation for future growth. So that comes both on the front end side of it, what we are doing in all countries, but it is also linked to the activities that we have on the R&D side, that we are not cutting on activities like that in times like this. But we still consider to see an improvement in not-too-distant future. And I think we are concluding the presentation for quarter 1 for Alimak Group. And I think we are ready to open up for questions for those of you have dialed in call. Thank you, and I hand over to the moderator. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] And we have -- our first questions come from Mattias Holmberg from DNB Markets.

You mentioned additional cost initiatives that has had a very limited impact on Q1, as I understand it. Would it be possible to at all quantify what potential savings you see in Q2 and for the rest of 2020?

Well, as we mentioned, we -- the measures that we have taken is mainly temporary layoffs within the schemes that are available in the various countries and it all offsetting the impact on the revenues. We haven't made any mass redundancies or other layoff programs. And as Tormod mentioned, we don't intend doing so, given our assumptions that we need to maintain the workforce when we have passed through this one. So I would say, yes, no. On the longer term, this will be no drastic changes on the operating expenses

Great. And also thinking about the utilization in the factories. Obviously, that was a big issue in Q1, looking at the profitability. How is the current situation? Are you still on very low utilization levels? Or have you been able to ramp up in sort of the BMU factories in Spain and so on?

We are ramping up. But as I said, we introduced 20th of April. As I said, we introduced 4-days week in Skellefteå. We are ramping up in Madrid on the BMU factory. We are ramping up in Saragosa. We are doing the same in Germany. China, we are at full capacity. We will still have effect of this coming out, as I said, in Q2. Brazil, some of the same. We are still having impacts from this in Q2. So there is a bit of a mixed picture because still, there is a different picture in Saragosa versus what we see in Madrid. So it can even have a geographical differences within the country. So Q2 will still have its challenges. But comparing to what we saw at the very end of Q1, I still expect to have a better situation in the factories, at least in May, June, that then compared to what we have seen in end of March.

Great. And just to -- trying to understand clearly, the 4-day work week in Skellefteå, is that sort of a measure to adjust the output to demand? Or is it any other reason you do that change?

No, it's adjusting the -- it's really to make sure that we are aiming for the same productivity as we would normally have or as close to that and adjusting them to the current demand that is planned for deliveries going forward. And even though we have orders, some of that might still be ordered for delivery in Q3. So we will, as I said, we have good negotiations with the union, and we've put in place a program that also will allow us to take some of that time back later in the year. So all in all, I think it's a good directions.

And our next question is from Johan Dahl from Danske bank.

Just on After Sales, what, in your appreciation, how was that -- how was orders in After Sales impacted by the virus outbreak here recently in Q1? Also, I'm wondering you talked about pent-up demand on After Sales, Tormod. Could you just explain why sort of the maintenance operation will not be lost sales, why it would be pent up?

Well, there are -- we know that there are equipment. I will starting with the first one first, why things are being pent-up demand. We know that for certain industries, for certain operations, they have got their -- they have been allowed to -- given the restricted access of third-party personnel, they have been allowed to operate equipment that goes beyond the sort of certified period, simply because they are not allowing people to access the sites. That means that, that scope is being moved out in time. And as such, it comes as a pent-up demand. It's work that needs to be done at some stage. And if you don't have the qualified people in your own workforce, then you have to put it out on a third-party provided, at some stage, can do it. And that is why I believe that part of this is also the demand that is moved out. And I think at some stage, we will also see a peak on that. And I think, eventually, that will come both on the service side as well as on the part side of it. Then of course, you will also have some reduced capacity on the customer side. That will not end up in a pent-up demand, simply because their frequency of use is also coming down with their lower capacity utilization, so there is a mix. But still, what I see -- what I foresee is that a fairly large portion of delayed search work out there is coming back as a pent-up demand.

And Tormod, how was orders impacted in After Sales by shutdowns? How come, is that material or what?

No. I still believe that the order side came through quite nicely. And I think one of the experiences that people have done out there is that the fact that so many also on the customer side are working from home and giving them more time. I think that has also actually led to almost more contact with the salespeople than maybe what you've seen during normal conditions because at least that is what we have seen. So all in all, I'm quite -- as I said, I'm quite pleased to see what came through on the order side in Q1.

Okay. Just finally, on Construction and on orders there, there was a sequential uptick here. What's -- do you notice any material change in the market? That's one question. And secondly, how concerned are you about the oil price impact on BMU long-term demand?

Okay. Starting with the Construction side. As I said during the presentation, I'm very pleased to see that U.K. was coming back now in the quarter because I, myself, had talked so much about -- I expected things to get better when the Brexit process was over and done with. And I think we really saw a strong Q1 coming in from U.K. and I think it will -- U.K. will continue to deliver a strong quarter. It was also good to see that the Nordics came in. I think some of the companies that we saw had introduced investment stops on the equipment side last year, started to make some investments in their fleet in Q1. So I'm also optimistic for that side. I think it remains to see where the U.S. market is going. Because U.S. has been hard-hit. If you look at the big concentration of where our equipment goes in, a lot goes into the New York area, that area has been hit hard. So I think it remains to see when that curve starts to flatten out before we're going to see some significant increase on the Construction Equipment side for the U.S. market, so I think that one is still to come. So overall, I'm quite pleased with what I saw in Q1 on Construction. And I have -- I'm fairly optimistic also for Q2 on the Construction side, on the order side. You were asking about the oil prices. You linked that to the BMU. I don't think that has too much impact on the BMU side. But on the Oil & Gas side, on IOG or the general industry and Oil & Gas and the marine side, as I said, I think oil prices being sitting around $20, that makes quite a few of the new developed oilfields, and this is all about oil because I think the gas is holding up price-wise. But oil price is below $20 per barrel. That is, I think, challenging for quite a few oil companies. I know that, Johan, site, if they are probably breakeven at $10, but $20 is extremely low. Do I believe that is an oil price that we will see continuously going forward? No, I don't believe that is what we will see. However, looking at how fast that the price will come back to sort of $50, $60, that still remains to see. Because as long as you see the restrictions on air traffic and the real consumers of the products, I think it still will take some time. That's probably also why we see some delays on the order side of this sector. I still believe, though, that those projects are quite advanced, will still order equipment and finish off their project. So I would be surprised if there are too many ongoing work started projects that will be put on hold because that also is carrying quite some significant costs with it. So I think there seems we might be a walk-down journey on the Oil & Gas side, but I have some hopes also for that upside, maybe more also on the marine side of that part. Of what -- as we see today, it's obviously an issue with storage and tankers are being used for that purpose. And we see an increase on the marine side. So let's see.

And our next question is from Kenneth Toll from Carnegie.

So most of the questions have been asked by my colleagues already. But one thing I was thinking about, you have a very good order intake now on the Construction side, and you mentioned U.K. being a strong market now. But as I understand, it's a lot of -- or most Construction sites in the U.K. is in lockdown right now. So do you believe that customers will accept orders during the second quarter? Or do you believe that there is a possibility that they delay shipments, or could they even cancel orders due to financial problems if they're not allowed to run the construction site?

No. I'm not really expecting cancellations because I think orders came really late and with the knowledge of what was sort of going on. So I think it's hard, and I think a lot of stakeholders that are involved in the construction business is really putting their heads together and find out how can they continue these activities still in a safe way. And I think the Nordics is a good model. If you talk to the construction companies in the Nordics, I don't think anyone of them have closed down any construction sites. We are even -- if I look at the construction sites in Australia, you can even see that in our hoist, we are now putting in dividers to provide screens for people. So I think a lot of measures are being taken to protect people and -- so that the business can continue to go on because I think the world is also starting to find out that the current situation is -- it's not sustainable over time. The people need to work. And I think most sectors have come to term with that. And I think a lot of focus is going into finding out how can we do this. How can we conduct this business in a safe way? And I don't really foresee, yes, there are limitations, there are restrictions, but at the same time, people are really putting their heads together to try to find out workable solutions that still makes it possible to do the business.

And then one other thing where Alimak stands out against many other companies is that you have decided not to cancel your dividends, and that may disqualify you for some government support in Sweden and so on. Most other companies have decided to cancel dividend this year. You have, obviously, a strong balance sheet, but what's the reasoning behind you being different, so to speak?

I think when it comes to dividend, I think that is, first of all, a Board -- for the Board to answer to. I think it is well being looked into, well being considered. So I think what you are addressing has also been addressed by the Board, and I see that it has been thoroughly thought through and that -- the conclusion that they ended up with. And I think it's probably a -- I see that fair conclusion, that's a very personal opinion.

Okay. And finally, are you seeing some customers wanting to delay payments or getting longer payment terms? Or could we see risks on that side?

I think we are seeing that all the time. Have you seen that more during these times? Maybe to -- I still would say that not really any material change. But as I also said in the presentation, we have really increased the focus on cash management in the group because normally times like this, it's a lot about making sure that you have the cash available. So that also means that we have stepped up efforts on the collection side to make sure that we are getting paid what is rightfully belonging to the group.

And there are no further questions at this time. And I'll pass the time back to the speakers.

So if that is so, then I think it remains for us only to say thank you to all of you that dialed in and for the questions that being asked. And I can only wish for you all a good day and a nice weekend going forward. Thank you.

Thank you. This now concludes our conference call. Thank you for attending. You may now disconnect your lines.