Alstom SA (ALO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary
July 6, 2021
Earnings Call Speaker Segments
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveGood morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Alstom Capital Markets Day. I'm welcoming you today in the Line 15 of the Grand Paris Express, the new metro expansion in Paris; actually, the largest expansion of any metro in the world today. We will go through the classical agenda for this Capital Markets Day, where I will introduce the markets and the general context. Then each of the product lines: Rolling Stock, Signalling, Services. We'll go through their own strategy. Laurent will come back with the financial framework, and I will come back at the end for the conclusion. I just remind you that at the end of this presentation, you will have ample time to ask any questions you may have. So let's start with a general overview of where we are today. First of all, before we go into our strategy and action plans, I would like to give you a general perspective of what is Alstom today after the merger with Bombardier. We have become a leader in rolling stock, signalling and services; a leader in mobility, in rail transportation. We have now a truly balanced workforce throughout the world on over all the continents, actually. We have a very balanced portfolio of activities between Rolling Stock, Service and Signalling. And we have an extremely resilient business model, with more than 1,000 customers all across the globe as well as a backlog of more than EUR 74.5 billion. Despite the recent sanitary conditions and economic crisis, all the secular drivers of our markets are still there, whether we talk about sustainable development, urbanization or economic growth. Moreover, we've seen an increased investment decided by a number of governments throughout the world on sustainable mobility, which will favor, first and foremost, rail transportation. We have also seen a number of new regulations, which have been taken by a number of public authorities in order to favor sustainable mobility and therefore, again, rail transportation; whether it's about ban of airplanes, whether it's about the ban of cars in the cities or the ban of diesel trains themselves. The market is, therefore, sustained. And the latest study from UNIFE has shown an average of 3% growth per annum in the coming years, even without taking into account all the latest developments and the latest announcement of the different governments. This growth is driven geographically by emerging markets and, in particular, by America, Middle East, Africa, Latin America; or by product, by Signalling notably because of the digitalization of -- and the smart mobility, the digitalization of the different networks across the globe. We have 2 priorities for the next 4 years, 2 very important priorities, which will help us to take full responsibility to endorse our responsibility vis-à-vis our market and vis-à-vis our fellow citizens. The first one is to capture the growth to extend our innovation, to extend -- to continue to expand our portfolio and to continue to transform our business to the satisfaction of our customers. The second priority is definitively to integrate Bombardier Transportation. And the more we deep dive into Bombardier, the more we find new complementarities, new things that we can build together. Globally, all the teams of Alstom, the Board of Alstom is definitively committed to lead the way to greener and smarter mobility worldwide. Let's look at our strategic road map for the next years. First and foremost, we want to build upon our past successes. As you know, we launched 2 years ago Alstom in Motion, and this has proved to be a very successful strategy. Our main pillars have been fully achieved, whether we speak about growth with a book-to-bill year-after-year greater than 1, with a particular focus on Signalling and Service. We have also made some very dedicated and focused M&A activities in order to boost our growth. We are now truly recognized as one of the leader in terms of innovation and, in particular, in terms of green traction. I will come back to that later on. In terms of efficiency, we have greatly improved our operations, our project executions, and this has been translated into an improved profitability of the company of -- now we have reached 8% average EBIT. And of course, CSR, which is part of our DNA; ESG, which is one of our first goal, has been fully achieved, thanks to the efforts of all the company. So we definitively want to build upon this success, to leverage this success in order to project ourselves into the future. Not surprisingly, the market remaining the same, the main pillar of our new strategy will be the same. Alstom in Motion 2025 will be based upon 3 main pillars: growth, innovation and efficiency. All that will be driven by one Alstom team. Our people, our managers, our engineers are definitively at the heart of our strategy. Growth will be primarily based upon our unique portfolio, combined with a unique footprint worldwide. Innovation will continue to be at the heart of our DNA, particularly towards smarter and greener mobility. Finally, efficiency, project execution, footprint optimization, project execution optimization will still be and will continue to be the day-to-day bread and butter of our 70,000 employees. So let's start with growth. We want to leverage our unique portfolio. We have the most comprehensive portfolio in all our competitors. First, in Rolling Stock from light rail to very high speed train, monorail, metros, regional trains, all types of rolling stocks; in Services, spare parts, maintenance activities up to train operations actually; and in Signalling, from urban signalling, light rail signalling, metro signalling to mainline signalling, of course, the European system. So we have the most comprehensive technological portfolio, which we'll combine together in order to offer to our customers the best solutions. Of course, we have already some best sellers. I can think about our Coradia regional trains, which we have sold in Denmark, in Spain, in Italy, in different countries. Bombardier is bringing as well some bestsellers, such as the TRAXX locomotives or the Innovia metros. In terms of Signalling, I think the combination of Bombardier technology and our technology will allow us to bring signalling solutions in any type of geographies. You know that you need to combine some new European technologies with legacy technologies, with geographically focusing technologies. With the 2 portfolio, we can do both of it: general technologies as well as local technologies. Finally, we have already proven in some tenders that we are capable of combining bricks coming from Alstom and bricks coming from Bombardier. One of the main example of that or the most recent example of that is for the Tren Maya in Mexico, where we have combined technologies coming from Alstom and coming from Bombardier. But I could multiply the example. We have also metros, for example, in India, where we are already combining the different technologies of the 2 legacy companies. In terms of geographical footprint, we'll be uniquely positioned to combine our technology with the footprint, which is the best suited for our customers. You know that there is an increasing need of localizations. Most of our customers worldwide want proximity, proximity to be better served, proximity for efficiency, but also proximity because they want their project, their infrastructure to benefit for local employment. With such a worldwide footprint from Latin America, North America to Asia Pacific, to Australia, covering all countries in Europe, we can combine our unique technology, our best technology with a unique footprint. If you look geography by geography, we have zones, we have regions, continents, countries, where we have a very strong historical presence such as, for example, in Western Europe or Southern Europe. I'm talking about France, Italy, Spain. Bombardier has brought to us new footprint like in the U.S., North America, Canada, of course. In some geographies, Bombardier was strong in the past. And I'm thinking, for example, in Germany. And we need to regain the historical presence of Bombardier's historical market access, market penetration of Bombardier within Germany but within the Scandinavia, the Nordic countries as well. If you talk about Asia, we are extremely present in India, and we are also the most present western company in China through 11 joint ventures. We have been pioneered in Middle East, Africa, and we are the only large company with industrial presence in Middle East, Africa. So as you can see, in all markets, we have a strong presence. In all markets, we want to hold a strong market share. All my colleagues will come back on the different product lines. We have, of course, different strategy depending on product lines. The first one, rolling stock and turnkey. We want to improve our competitiveness, and we want to improve our profitability in rolling stock. This is where we want to leverage our new portfolio and also to create new rolling stock with the different bricks of technologies coming from Alstom and coming from Bombardier. I think that this is a unique combination of standardization on one hand, standardization of the bricks, as well as modularization, enabling us to create new types of solutions for our customers. In Signalling, we simply want to become #1. We have both the technology to do so in mainline signalling and, in particular, on the European technology, but also on the CBTC on the classical urban signalling. So we combine this unique technological portfolio with a global reach. Thanks to the combination of Alstom presence and Bombardier presence, we are now present on all markets, in particular in Germany, which was lacking in Alstom portfolio and which is one of the most promising markets in the coming years. Finally, Service, we want to sustain our leadership. We want to be the leader in the market, leveraging our very large installed base. And you know, with the evolution towards predictive maintenance, how important is the access to data. And again, with 150,000 cars in installed fleet, with 35,000 cars being maintained, we have an immense access to a large data pool, which we can leverage to build our predictive maintenance. Innovation. Innovation will continue to be at the heart of our strategy. We all know that rail mobility is by far the most sustainable means of transportation. But still, we need to continue to improve rail mobility to make it more attractive. So we'll intend to double our R&D effort from roughly EUR 300 million to close EUR 600 million. Of course, there will be some rationalization and will stop duplicating effort, which we have done separately in Bombardier and in Alstom. But still, we are going to increase significantly our R&D efforts in order to be able to continue to be at the leading edge of the technology in our sector. What does it mean to be at the leading age? It's, one, to target green mobility. Again, sustainability is at the heart of our strategy. We want to improve our traction, energy saving. We want of course to go towards greener traction. I will come back to that later on. But sustainability will drive our efforts. Digitalization, cybersecurity, predictive maintenance are the way to improve reliability and efficiency of our systems. So the second priority is smart mobility. We definitively want to be as well at the leading edge of the technology in terms of digital technologies. Last but not least, we want to make rail transportation an evidence. We want people to be attracted by rail transportation, not only because it's sustainable, but because for them, it's the most attractive means of transportation, the most convenient way of going from point A to point B. And for that, we will invest a lot in passenger experience, in making sure that everybody feels safe on board of our trains. So we want to have inclusive solutions, healthier mobility. So these are the 3 main access of our innovation: green mobility, smart mobility but as well as mobility for everybody. Just to focus on green traction. As you know, we have been truly pioneering this green traction. In Europe, half of the lines are non-electrified. We have more than 6,000 diesel trains to be replaced or refurbished by 2035. There is a strong public demand. There is a strong requirement by public authorities. We have already delivered, back in 2018, 2 hydrogen trains. And now we have commercial contracts for more than 59 hydrogen trains to be delivered, not only new trains, but also refurbished trains, retrofit. Hydrogen will be one of the key solution, if not the largest solution to this issue. But we should not neglect as well battery, and we have our solutions for short hauls to equip trains with batteries so that they can, for limited distance, use battery instead of catenaries. You can see on the map that we can say that 2021 is the year of hydrogen, where most of the countries in Europe which are being early adopters of hydrogen technology, but most of the countries in Europe have now launched program to implement hydrogen trains on the network. Digitalization, one of the main focus of our strategy. We need to be more and more software-oriented with all -- which goes with it is cybersecurity, reliability, efficiency. We have relaunched, I would say, an effort in terms of predictive maintenance, combining the predictive maintenance of Bombardier with the predictive maintenance of Alstom, enriching our 2 solutions. We need to enrich all what is about smart mobility. And we are already there. I mean we have launched the most advanced CBTC, train-to-train CBTC, what we call Fluence. We are also at the forefront of autonomous trains, of course, not only for metro, but also for regional trains which we have launched, for example, in Germany. Efficiency. We need to continue to transform this group. We have embarked over the last years in a complete transformation of the group, first and foremost, by digitalization of our processes, of our factories, of our sites. We continue to deploy our Alstom digital suite. It took us time to actually design this digitalization. It took us time to deploy it within Alstom, but now we want to deploy it much faster in the new part of Alstom, i.e., in the legacy Bombardier side. We can leverage our size to even further improve this digitalization, to even further boost automation. Once you have digitalized one site, it's of course much easier to replicate this digitalization in the different sites across the globe. Project execution. We have learned and it took us time in Alstom to get to an excellent project execution, to get to an excellent on-time delivery, to get to an excellent client satisfaction. That, we want to deploy within Bombardier, but we should not stop there. We should continuously improve our operations. We should strive to even further satisfy our customers and eventually, at the end of the day, all passengers. Last but not least, our footprint. We have now a unique footprint, which, as I said, will primarily serve our customers in terms of proximity, but we can also leverage in terms of BCC content to make it more efficient. So we'll continue to put some emphasis on using and leveraging our global footprint, both locally to be close to our customers, but as well as globally to use the best place to produce either engineering, manufacturing, any kind of goods that we want to produce. We have very clear targets that we want to follow because we are convinced that only by measuring all these different operational indicators, we will push the companies to be even better day-after-day. ESG, sustainability. Alstom, it's our DNA. I would say even more, most of the employees, if not all the employees of Alstom are working for Alstom because they truly believe that they work to improve the world going forward; that the world needs our solutions; that we have an immense responsibility vis-à-vis all the world to provide the solution in order to decarbonized mobility, which has become one of the main challenges of the world today. So decarbonization of the mobility, we believe it is possible. We believe it is possible through a model shift towards rail transportation. We believe it is possible by decarbonizing rail transportation itself, taking it out of the network diesel trains by improving the efficiency of our tractions. But we will only do that if we manage to care for our people, care for our employees. We are one big community working again to develop these solutions, but we need to do that together without forgetting anybody inside the company, to be inclusive within the company, to be diverse within the company. We are creating immense of positive impact on the planet through, again, our solutions. But we want to create also a positive impact for the communities around our factories, for the communities around us. That's why we are year-after-year increasing our contribution to Alstom Foundation, so that Alstom Foundation can help thousands of thousands of citizens around the world to develop themselves. And of course, we want to make sure that we act as a responsible company, not only vis-à-vis our employees, vis-à-vis the communities, but also with our suppliers around the world. Just a few words on Bombardier integration, which is one of our priorities for the next years. The more we look at it, the more enthusiastic we are about this integration. And actually, it goes much faster than what we thought. We have been in a position to deploy the one organization only after a few months. People are already working together on the technology. We have unified the IT organization. The customers, all our environment is welcoming this integration. And we had, as I said, the first commercial successes. So frankly, the more we look at it, the more our employees are looking at it, and more than 90% of our employees are positive about this merger. It brings so much to the both companies in terms of technological bricks, in terms of competence, in terms of expertise, in terms of technology. What we need to do now is to make it up and running. We have a challenge today, which is to stabilize the Bombardier portfolio. Yes, it's true to recognize that Bombardier projects were complex. If you ask me what is my diagnosis on this situation, I think it was, first and foremost, a managerial issue. The employees, the engineers of Bombardier are first-class, world-class people. They know their work. They know their technology. They have been in this market for decades. But yes, Bombardier has gone through a period of destabilization. And therefore, some of the projects were badly resourced. Some of the coordination between the different sites were not there. We need to reestablish these managerial routines. That's what will enable us to stabilize the projects. We are, of course, discussing with all customers in order to find, again, a good relationship with these customers, in order to find a common ground, a positive common ground to deliver all these projects. We give ourselves 2 to 3 years in order to come back to a normal, sound portfolio. We know it's going to take some time, and I'm so pleased to see the customer's reaction to the dialogue that we have with them. We are pursuing the same goal of stabilizing this project portfolio. Thereafter, in 2 to 3 years, we'll be one company because this is the time which is also needed in order to deploy all our tools within the different sites of Bombardier, to deploy all our digital know-how within all these sites. So in 3 years, we'll be only one company, and we'll be able to fully capture the synergies because I can tell you that the more we look at it, the more we see synergies between the different companies. So yes, we have to go through this period of project stabilization. But I can tell you that the future will be extremely bright and very, very promising, and we can really endorse our responsibility and the company which will be created. Through the addition of these 2 companies, we will be really world-class and will really endorse its responsibility to bring to the world the solutions needed by the world. So now it's my pleasure to hand over to the different product line heads, which will explain to you for each of the product lines which are the main priorities. I will come back at the end for the conclusions and, of course, for the questions-and-answer sessions. Danny, I'm leaving the floor to you. Thank you.
Danny Di Perna;Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer
executiveThank you, Henri. Good morning, good afternoon to everyone. I'm Danny Di Perna. I'm pleased today to present alongside my colleague Benjamin Fitoussi, our product line of Rolling Stock & Components for Alstom. Let me start by taking a look at the market. As you can see on this slide, the rolling stock market is a very steady, large growing market. All told, the accessible market is roughly EUR 45 billion, spread across multi-segments, which I will cover in a moment. The market is naturally growing roughly around 1.5% and buoyed by government injection of funding both here in Europe and in the United States, focused on infrastructure and green mobility. The trend will continue to rise and grow. As you can see on the right-hand side of our slide, the market share for Alstom after the acquisition of Bombardier is now roughly 1/3 from an addressable market perspective of overall market size. And as you can see, next to our nearest competitor, we are quite significantly the #1 global player. The market has responded. Our customers have, fortunately for Alstom, rewarded us over the last 6 months with several recent wins, all totaling EUR 7 billion secured within the last 6 months. These range from here in Europe to the United States and most recently with Tren Maya in Mexico. Let me take a look at [ view ] on how we're going to create value for our customers and stakeholders. I want to cover 3 key elements, which will frame the remaining portion of our presentation. Number one, our broad portfolio and scale. The combination of Alstom and Bombardier Transportation provides us an incredible platform worldwide globally to reach and to be proximity with our customers all over the world. This provides us an ability to understand all the norms and standards and to be able to work intimately with our customers to provide the very best mobility solutions. The second key element is technology. With our continued investment of roughly EUR 0.25 billion annually, we continue based on the building blocks we already have for technology and continued investment in R&D with a clear road map for technology to continue to drive mobility solutions for the future. And finally and most importantly, customer satisfaction and value creation for our shareholders, our employees and our customers is really going to rely on quality of execution and delivery and execution of our projects on time. And I have no doubt with the rigor and discipline and process focus that the Alstom company has, we will be successful. Now let's take a look at our portfolio. As you can see, the complementary aspects of all of our product platforms across the world certainly have put us in a position corner-to-corner all over the globe to have products and to have building blocks for us to meet all of our customers' demands. As you can see here from what we have in main center Europe, down to Australia, over into Latin America and up into the United States, we have a multitude of platforms and technologies to select from. Our engineers are now capable to take the best of best of platforms and component building blocks to be able to offer improved solutions to meet the design cost targets, to meet the performance targets and, of course, overall passenger comfort that our customers require. On the right-hand side of the slide, we -- it demonstrates that we can offer a full broad range of both speed and capacity. Starting down towards the bottom of the axis with the monorail and airport people movers, down -- up into the middle of regional and intercity and all the way to the far right, Alstom -- for very high-speed and high-speed train, Alstom offers a broad portfolio that matches all of the speed and capacity requirements that the market needs. Let's dive a little bit deeper into the component building blocks. We have an unmatched component building block library for our engineers to pull from and work for improving design features for our customers. We have the broadest portfolio of components in the industry from bogies and drives, and traction and our train control and information systems. These library of components are available to all of our platform and engineering designers, so that they can pick and choose depending on the needs and the design requirements for our customers. Down the middle, starting with the pioneering effort of the hydrogen fuel cell championed here at Alstom, in the middle with battery power and then down below, we're investing in healthier mobility solutions. What is featured there is our HVAC air filter design from a sanitary concern perspective. Overall, we are investing more on healthier mobility to provide better solutions for passenger comfort for our customers. And then on the far right, we've got a few more toys in the toy box that we are investing in. We've decided to have some specific targeted M&A activity targeted towards brakes, brake pads and of, course, fuel cell technology so that our engineers can go deeper in the design attributes of these components and technologies, also broadening our opportunity to understand from both an engineering and operations and aftermarket services in the future. Let's dive a little bit deeper now into our platforms. Let me start with light rail. Light rail market, the tram market is roughly EUR 1 billion a year in annual sales. Combined together -- our two platforms, Citadis, which is very successful in securing positions on new infrastructure. Flexity is competitive on infrastructure that is legacy and as an incumbency with Flexity. Together, combined, we do have many building blocks from a platform perspective to offer the best of best. In addition to that and tailored specifically for the North American market, the trams in the United States and Canada have now a breadth of components and platforms for us to choose from that is slightly different from what is required here in the European market. Let's move over to the urban market. The urban market is roughly EUR 8.5 billion. And over the last 3 years, slice of data has grown almost 24%. It's a growing, exciting market in urban, and we have what it takes with Movia and Metropolis to be able to combine the best of best and offer great urban solutions at cost targets, at performance levels and at passenger comfort for our customers. And finally, down, if we look at the suburban, specifically in our German market, a market that is growing, our German market is very important for us. And provided that we have all the right components now from a solutions perspective, we can leverage the scale of our local capabilities in Germany for the suburban market. Let's take a look at mainline. By far, the largest segment for Rolling Stock is regional. It's roughly EUR 11 billion as a market. The flagship program for Alstom is the Coradia Stream. Coradia Stream is built on a standardized platform basis that offers the flexibility of single deck and double deck. Also, as I'll feature in a video in a moment, it leverages the green traction and the pioneering efforts of hydrogen power also equipped with battery power for Coradia. If we take a look at mainline, the mainline business, which is high-speed and very high-speed, Alstom now has both the Avelia Horizon product, a game-changing product that is designed out of the box for better than 30% total cost of ownership as designed, coupled with the legacy Bombardier Zefiro Nordics product, now we have 2 great product platforms to be able to cover the high-speed and very high-speed markets. In addition, Alstom has been very successful with the Avelia Liberty in the United States as the very first high-speed, very high-speed train for North America. And finally, on locomotives, the combination of the two, the Prima, which is capitalizing on the Indian and CIS markets; and Bombardier's legacy TRAXX product for pan-European application provides us the basic locomotive capability that we need for both freight and for passenger for years to come. Let me show you an example of how we've combined this tremendous asset portfolio to strengthen our value offering to our customers. Two examples. In Mexico, Tren Maya, we -- on the basis of the X'Trapolis product platform, in addition to the Bombardier legacy FLEXX Eco bogie system and the production capability, capacity and skill set that we have in Sahagún, Mexico, that combination was unmatched and was the winning combination to win for Tren Maya, more than EUR 1 billion. And as you can see, a very significant kilometerage, number of stations, a very significant win that we were fortunate to secure earlier this year. The second example is based on a program that was won already in India based on the Movia platform. And now to improve our customer offering, using Metropolis subsystems, we were able to combine the best of best, produce in an already existing legacy Alstom facility in Sri City, India and secure deliveries and execution of a great product for our customer in India. And now let's take a ride on our Alstom Coradia iLint. [Presentation]
Danny Di Perna;Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer
executiveAnd now let me hand it over to Benjamin Fitoussi. Benjamin?
Benjamin Fitoussi
executiveThank you, Danny. Good morning and good afternoon to everyone. It's my pleasure to be with all of you today. Danny has focused his presentation on the growth pillar of our strategy. I will now move to the second pillar, which is related to innovation. As a combined company, we are spending in the range of EUR 300 million per year in the field of rolling stock, and our customers are more and more demanding. Not only they value more and more the life cycle cost over the capital cost of the project, but the technical performance during the tender phase is gaining traction. For example, in Europe, in many projects, on many tenders, we are up to 70% of the scoring, which is related to the technical performance. So our R&D program is focused on 4 main initiatives. The first one is a TCO systematic approach, where we are working on reducing the weight of our solution as well as improving the efficiency of our traction system. Second activity is related to healthier mobility. Obviously, with the pandemic, we have been first to increase our effort in that field, in particular, related to treatment for all contact surfaces. But we are working as well on noise reduction and climate comfort optimization. Third pillar is security and availability. And the last pillar is sustainable solutions. Henri has explained all the actions we were doing in the field of retractioning on hydrogen. But besides this, we are also investing in eco-design and recyclability of our solution. Just to illustrate, the Avelia high-speed trains that will replace the current high-speed train in France, for example, and that will come in service 2024, will bring significant innovation on the market. Now I will move to the third pillar of our strategy, which is related to efficiency. And I will focus my presentation to start with on all the integration initiatives we are conducting. Obviously, the priority #1 of our teams is to make sure we stabilize the difficult project we have currently in our portfolio. This has been the priority from day 1 for all our teams. We have conducted detailed assessment, and we have set up task forces to support the project teams on the most complex projects. Just to illustrate the type of action we are conducting actually. First one is to mobilize the technical expertise of the group throughout the world to support and fix the technical issues. But we are also investing in bringing additional resources on our projects, in particular, in the field of engineering to cope with the increasing peak load that we have currently on those projects. We have adjusted the project management organization and aligned it with the current way of working of Alstom, and we have reinforced the governance of those projects. All the planning are being reviewed. All the gate reviews are being checked. And in particular, we are conducting rebaselining action to make sure we are aligned with our customer demands. We are mobilizing our key suppliers, but we are also investing in our plants, for example, in Derby, but also in Crespin in France or in Ceská Lípa in Eastern Europe, to cope with the throughput we need to deliver in the context of huge ramp-up of production, which is expected this year and next year, and also to allow us to serve our customers with better quality products. Obviously, this is a huge effort, and it has an impact on the cash and cost position of our projects. Everything will not be solved in 6 months, but we are very confident that all the issues can be solved. None of them is insurmountable. We will fix all of them, I'm very confident. Now I will move to the second axis of our integration effort, which is related to the product convergence. Obviously, the 2 companies combined a unique offering on the market, and it is our intent to maintain this wide offering to all our customers. But we are convinced we can combine vehicle architecture, components and technology to the benefits of our customers as well as to the competitiveness of our offering. Just to give some examples, in terms of best component selection, for example, on the Mumbai Line 4 project that has been secured last year, at the end of last year, we have decided to use the architecture of Alstom Mumbai Line 3 but with the bogie and traction system coming from Bombardier. And we have other examples that we can also communicate in the theme of leveraging the make capabilities of Alstom in terms of transformers and electrical harnesses. We are just at the start of the journey, and we know that it will take a bit longer to develop the full synergy, but by March 2022, all the product convergence will have been applied. Procurement is also a very important driver. As you know, we are spending every year in the range of EUR 14 billion both in terms of direct material but also in terms of indirect services. So the efficiency of our procurement is key to our own competitiveness. We have launched at the start of the acquisition, a program called Leading Together, which involved all our key suppliers with the objective to review the supplier panel and deliver the synergies we can expect from such an acquisition. Now I will move to the integration of our processes, and we are conducting this integration in 2 steps. The first step is this year to be able to operate as one company. What does it mean? It means that the 26 most critical processes are being aligned, and we are able to steer the global performance of the company with a set of common KPIs and common data. What is the objective? The objective is this year to be able to tender and to execute a project combining the sites of the 2 legacy companies. Just to illustrate, for example, with Tren Maya, which is a recently secured deal, we are developing the train out of Bangalore, which is an Alstom legacy site. But Bangalore is getting the support from both Hennigsdorf and Derby, which are 2 legacy sites for Bombardier. And the manufacturing will be done in Sahagún, which is also a BT legacy site. So that's for the short term. And then for the midterm, by 2025, we want to have the full operation aligned on the same car model fully digitalized. It means that in terms of engineering, we are deploying the new PLM, and we are also automating all the tasks that are repetitive. What is the goal? To deliver 6% of savings on every car we are designing. On the manufacturing front, we are deploying the Alstom operating system, and we are also bringing further robotization in our plant, with the goal to reduce the hours per car by 10% by 2025. To illustrate more in detail this digitalization effort which is at the cornerstone of our strategy, I want to give a couple of examples. In engineering, we are deploying what we call Robotic Process Automation, with the goal to automate in terms of engineering all the repetitive tasks. We have identified 50 RPA opportunities with significant savings at stake. On the manufacturing front, we are also digitalizing some manufacturing operation as well as some testing operation. For example, the watertightness of our traction [indiscernible] in tab will be fully now automated with a lot of savings in terms of efficiency as well as quality improvement and reliability in our processes. But efficiency is not only about integration of Bombardier. It's also about continuing our transformation journey that was initiated at the time of Alstom in Motion, with clear ambition set on all the aspects of our value chain by 2025, as you can see on this slide. I will just name a list of initiatives we are conducting. For example, in terms of project management, after a phase of pilot, we are rolling up now a project management based on subsystems rather than on [indiscernible]. We are also consolidating our effort in terms of standardization and modularization. And on the manufacturing front, we are deploying the 5S at shop floor level and making sure that the right first-time quality culture is implemented in all our operations. This is -- what you see on this slide is the complete footprint of our Rolling Stock activities. It represents 26,000 employees and 7,000 engineers. This footprint is of great value for the company, and this for 3 main reasons. First, we are able to remain very close to each of our customers, which is a strong asset because our customers are very often requesting some local content. Second, we can leverage our best cost competitive sites that we have both in engineering and manufacturing in Eastern Europe, in India, in Mexico, in Morocco for the benefit of our customers and our own efficiency. We have set clear ambition in terms of BCC content, with the goal to deliver 40% of our engineering hours from India and up to 60% of our manufacturing hours from our BCC location. But the value of this footprint is also to reach a certain scale effect and to allow the specialization of the site per product and per technology. With specialization comes professionalization, and with professionalization comes performance. This means, for example, that the new development of trains will be secured in 10 main development sites, and each of this development site will be focused on some geographies and some products. Now you will see a video highlighting the world class of our operation, and then I will turn the floor to Danny for a word of conclusion. Thank you. [Presentation]
Danny Di Perna;Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer
executiveGreat video, and thank you, Benjamin. Let me wrap up for Rolling Stock & Components, 4 key messages. Number one, we are a market leader in green mobility solutions, and we are the provider of choice. Number two, our integration is well on its way. We've come a long way in 6 months. It's been an incredible journey, and the integration is clearly focused on bringing increased value to customers and stakeholders by combining the best of best of our components and our product platforms, including worldwide reach with our now new global scale and customer intimacy and finally, real, rigor and discipline that the Alstom business processes bring to bear. Third, we are now more competitive together by looking at all of the standardization opportunities from our library of components, and we are better positioned today through our investments in technology to drive real technology and cost competitiveness. And finally, as Benjamin quite eloquently said, it really all sums up into excellent project execution. Quality and delivery is what our customers pay for, and they expect no less from us to drive customer satisfaction. And now let me turn the stage to Jean-François Beaudoin.
Jean-François Beaudoin
executiveThanks, Danny. Thanks, Benjamin. Good morning, good afternoon to all of you. I'm Jean-François Beaudoin. I'm the Head of Digital and Integrated Systems, which notably encompasses our Signalling activities. Rail transportation is the only way to address both the congestion and sustainable mobility challenges we are facing today. At Alstom, we are working hard at making rail transportation more attractive and more affordable. Digitalization of rail is actually a great enabler to meet both expectations. Here's why. First, digitalization of rail is a solution to increase capacity of existing infrastructure. It allows to reduce the time distance between 2 trains without compromising safety, which leads to higher throughput for an existing line. It also improves reliability and passenger comfort, for instance, when deploying passenger flow and traffic management systems. Driving automation is the best way to find the right compromise between trip time and energy consumptions, that it leads to energy efficiency improvement by as much as 45% in some use cases. Advanced asset management, leveraging data, condition monitoring, predictive maintenance allow us to reduce the total cost of ownership of the assets while improving availability by reducing the occurrence of failures. Those recognized benefits turn into a signalling market which is worth EUR 15 billion per annum, which is largely made of mainline following by urban, freight and services. After a relative softness of the market over the last couple of years primarily because of the COVID pandemic, it's fair to recognize that the market is currently rebounding and expected to grow further at a growth rate of approximately 5%, which is actually higher than the average rail market growth. If we look at the Alstom performance over the last couple of years and in spite of the COVID pandemic, it's fair to recognize that we've delivered a solid top line growth with a CAGR of about 7%. The implementation of the Alstom in Motion strategy also helped us improving our bottom line and profit margin. While delivering those numbers, we've managed to maintain our technological leadership in key segments, for instance, further expanding our footprint for driverless metros, being entrusted to deliver the latest ETCS Level 2 standard in India for the first time or providing new innovation in the market. Let me give the example of the radar-less odometry in Norway that we're currently deploying. It's a great innovation that was meant to detect accurately and safely the position of trains in harsh weather conditions. It combines satellite positioning and inertial measurement unit with techniques like artificial intelligence and data fusion, which basically practically allows the operators to run their trains with the highest possible level of visibility in spite of heavy snow. Of course, one of the key events on the previous months is the acquisition of Bombardier Transportation for -- by Alstom, which has led to a step change in rolling stock activities but which is equally strategically significant for our signalling activities. The combined entity delivers EUR 2.1 billion of revenue per annum, positioning ourselves as the clear #2 on the signalling market. We've got more than 13,000 colleagues, most of them being engineers, distributed very well in what we can call the most global footprint in the industry. A very good balance between historical knowledge centers in Europe, in Asia, in America, combined with best-in-class BCC footprint in Asia and Eastern Europe as well as deployment centers more or less everywhere in the world. We've got great assets to leverage going forward. Number one is, of course, our complete offering of solutions. With the combination of Alstom and Bombardier, we can now address all market segments in signalling. We've got a proven track record in terms of technology leadership with latest solutions like ETCS, digital interlocking, CBTCs and others being leading the competition. We also have a global footprint, leveraging very well BCC, and of course, a very strong market positioning, both in terms of installed base and in terms of customer proximity with our local presence in more than 70 countries. With this, our ambition is very clear. We want to be the market leader, leading technology for signalling by 2025. That will translate into a high single-digit growth of the top line consistently over the next 4 years as well as an ambition to continuously improve our margin to get best-in-class profit margin. If we look at that now by segment and spend a little while on the mainline segment. Mainline, like I said, is the largest market, but it is also the fastest growing. This is primarily due to the fact that many countries, notably in Europe, have decided to launch nationwide digitalization program of railway networks. That translates into opportunities to change interlockings into digital interlockings and, of course, deploy the ETCS across the network. The benefit of ETCS are now well recognized. Let me give you the example of the Paris-Lyon corridor, which is currently the busiest high-speed line in Europe, and we're currently deploying the ETCS Level 2 technology on that corridor. With the implementation of ETCS, we're able to reduce the time gap between 2 trains and increase the capacity of the line by up to 20% without upgrading the infrastructure. We're basically making the busiest line in Europe even busier. When you look at the current coverage of ETCS across Europe, it's today only 10% to 15%, so the potential for growth is absolutely huge. It's huge, but not only in Europe. ETCS, which was originally a European standard, has become a reference overseas as well. We've got references in India, in Australia, in some countries in Latin America, so the potential for expansions is even higher. Alstom is very well positioned to capture that growth, number one, because of the complementarity of our domestic markets, particularly France, Italy, India, the U.K. coming from Alstom; Poland, Sweden, Thailand coming from Bombardier. We become as well very significantly strategically positioned for the German market as a combined entity. And Germany is very important for us because through the German rollout that has been launched by the German government, it's going to be the largest market in Europe for the next 10 to 15 years. We have great ambitions for Germany. And we believe we are very well positioned, and the recent successes we've just signed in Stuttgart is an indication of that positioning. Of course, we also have a very competitive offering. We are the market leader on ETCS onboard units, and we've grown our market shares on the trackside segment by 8% over the last few years. If you combine this together with our leadership in technology, we are the first one having certified the ETCS both on onboard and wayside with the latest standard, the so-called Baseline 3 Release 2. And the great footprint that we have in terms of installed base, in terms of presence in various countries, we are very well positioned to be successful in that market. If we now look at urban, there are 2 key market drivers for urban. One is urbanization, and second is city congestion. That leads to an expectation for many metro networks and municipalities to launch large-scale digitalization programs for their urban network. It leads to larger and more complex projects requiring high level of performance and very often, more and more driverless operations. Here, again, we are very well positioned, one, because we've got the most innovative technology on the market, with Urbalis Fluence currently being deployed for the first time in the world in Lille. This technology relies on the fact that trains communicate the one with each other rather than talking directly to the infrastructure. That translates into a reduced need for equipment wayside, which are usually more costly and more difficult to deploy, as well as an increased performance because we can reduce the headway, the time gap between 2 trains down to 1 minute only. The combination of Alstom and Bombardier has enhanced the portfolio of CBTC that can cover now all urban applications, light rail, metros, heavy rail as well as today, monorail and people movers. We also have a very strong track record in delivering complex projects as well as an unrivaled customer proximity and installed base. Services is a market that is at a turning point. And I think there is a change of [ padding ] today on the market, with more and more customers having explicit demand on making sure that they get long-term support for life cycle management, obsolescence management, parts and repairs on the long term from the technology provider. This combined with extremely high demand in terms of availability of the systems going towards the 0 failure system. And of course, there is an emergence of an expectation for new digital services, particularly leveraging data to create additional value for our customers and the passengers as well as the need for the technology providers to offer solutions to maintain effective cyber defense on the long term of the life cycle of the asset. Here again, Alstom is very well positioned. First, we've doubled the revenue on that segment over the last couple of years only. Second, we have now, with the combination with Bombardier, a huge installed base, more than 200 lines equipped with CBTC, thousands of onboard units running on our trains, thousands of kilometers equipped with our ETCS technology. We've got now an offering which addresses end-to-end needs from services going with more and more digital content. The key of our offer is HealthHub, and HealthHub's [ auxiliary ] is totally integrated in our global HealthHub offering. And that basically leverages data to enforce condition monitoring and predictive maintenance to increase the availability of the systems while reducing cost of ownership. We're investing a lot in innovation. It's at the core of our strategy. Here are 3 axis on which we are giving some priorities. The first one is the digitalization of our portfolio of solutions and products. By digitalization, we mean less hardware, more digital content, more software, more automation. We're trying to virtualize our application software and getting ready to move to the cloud. Why? Because it reduces the dependency on hardware, which is much more efficient to manage obsolescence as well as a way to increase the scalability of our applications for larger-scale operation. We are also trying to leverage the best of data science and artificial intelligence. And I'll give you the example of the Mastria platform that we've deployed in Panama. It's an intelligent platform that collects data from multiple sources, the signalling solution, of course, but also video surveillance, mobile network, ticketing systems and gathers all those data in such a way that it can in real time adapt the transport offer to the transport demand, depending on passenger flows. It was initially deployed to address a very specific congestion bottleneck at the junction between Line 1 and Line 2 in Panama. And in the COVID pandemic, it has been redeployed very quickly to help the operator managing the fact that the capacity of the line should be controlled as to enforce the social distancing measures. The second key axis is autonomous train and autonomous driving, and there are multiple grades of automation. We are leading the way for the more advanced grade of automation, the so-called GoA 4. But GoA 2 over ETCS, which is a very advanced automation level, already is becoming a reality. And we've been entrusted to deliver such kind of assistance in India, in Luxembourg and more recently in Germany in Stuttgart. With this, we can improve the energy saving by 45% and the capacity of the line by 20%. Full driverless prototype are meant to run in France by 2023. Cybersecurity is already reality and a key axis for our development. It's what I call the flip side of digitalization. Two key areas of focus: number one, making sure that all the products and solutions that we're putting on the market are cyber inside by design. Number two is to provide solutions, like intrusion detection measures, to our customers who have installed base for which the solutions have been designed 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. To do this, we rely on strong partnerships with Airbus and Cylus, which is an Israeli startup in which we invested a strategic participation this year, as well as in-house workforce. We've got more than 100 cybersecurity experts today. We plan to double that number within the next few years. Delivering with efficiency is another key strategic axis for us, first, by leveraging our best-in-class BCC footprint, which is a great combination of Katowice in Poland, Bangkok in Thailand and Bangalore in India. In Bangalore, we've already multiplied by 3 the number of skilled engineers in the last 4 years. We are not doing this only because of cost. We are doing this because in India, the potential to start skilled engineers is almost infinite. Our target is that by 2025, we'll reach 50% of our engineering hours being delivered by our BCC colleagues. The second key axis is platforming and standardization, which is basically reducing the number of hardware platform and technical platform to serve more applications in more markets to capture scale effect and reduce the cost of obsolescent management. And of course, the third axis is the digitalization of our own operations to gain efficiency, lead time and reduce cost of nonquality. It's now time for me to introduce Ling Fang, my colleague, Head of Asia Pacific, to say a few words about our great Asian footprint.
Ling Fang
executiveI'm Ling Fang, President of Alstom's Asia Pacific region. My region, on top of being charged of delivering projects to the customers in Asia Pacific, is also a global delivery center for signalling. We host 2 very large engineering centers: Bangalore in India, and Bangkok in Thailand. They deliver close to 30% of the global Alstom Signalling engineering workload, boosting Alstom's capacity for growth in this business. Ten years ago, Bangalore was only a back office for a few projects worldwide. Over the years, we have developed Bangalore into a strong engineering center working on both urban and the mainline business on project engineering activities and R&D programs for the Indian market, but also for the rest of the world. Today, more than 2,000 signalling engineers are working out of Bangalore. The number of engineers has been multiplied by 3 in the past 4 years. This very fast growth has not only focused on quantity but also on quality. Today, we have a high number of signalling experts recognized by Alstom's world-class engineering program. One advantage of India is that we can find locally trained, highly skilled engineers. With the acquisition of Bombardier Transportation, we have further strengthened our capabilities with the addition of a second engineering delivery center in Bangkok. 400 engineers are serving both the local and the global market in urban and the mainline engineering, including some iconic projects in Thailand. This team has developed also a strong expertise on turnkey business and contributes to many turnkey projects in the world. Alstom is designing the future of rail. And with close to 40% of Alstom's global signalling engineering to be delivered from Asia by 2025, I'm proud my team is leading the way.
Jean-François Beaudoin
executiveNow it's time to wrap up. What we believe is that we see very positive market perspective with a growing need for more efficient transport system, where digitalization would be at the heart of that progression. Of course, we believe we are very well positioned on that market because of our complete offering, very strong portfolio with the combination of Alstom and Bombardier, our global presence, our best-in-class solutions. And not only we believe we'll be able to capture growth, but we'll be able to continue improving our profit margin, leveraging scale effects, best cost countries footprint and the digitalization of our solutions. We're very confident that we'll meet our ambition, which is to be the leader in that market, high single-digit sales growth and best-in-class adjusted EBIT. It's now time for me to hand over to my colleague, Matt Byrne, Head of Services.
Matthew Byrne;President, Services
executiveThank you, Jean-François. So let's now take you through the most exciting power of the Alstom portfolio. Hi, I'm Matt Byrne, and I'm the President for Services. Services is not only one of the most profitable parts of the Alstom portfolio but also has huge potential for growth. Today, I will take you through not just the landscape of the current services market but also our growth strategy for growth going forward. The rail services market is growing but still remains largely untapped. And there's a number of advantageous tailwinds funding that growth: the market liberalization, particularly in Europe and particularly in high-speed routes; the eco-friendly drive towards green solutions, driven by environmental, commercial and public pressures; the rise in PPP for agencies and regions to find ways to grow and to fulfill their transit ambitions; the efficiency concerns of operators, driving towards a much lower cost of ownership as a consequence of funding pressures; the increasing complexity of trains compelling operators and owners into long-term partnerships with OEMs such as Alstom. And that market, we see to be around EUR 37 billion by 2023 to 2025. And there's a number of characteristics which make the services market highly attractive, not just the good margins, long-term contract stability, low risk. We know the product. We know the technology. High rate of renewal. 95% of our contracts get renewal because of our customer intimacy and performance. A strong delta in efficiency between public and private entities, the ability of likes of Alstom to invest and drive efficiency savings compared to the public operators who have constraints. And it's a very asset-light model, the ability to have low cash injection, low CapEx, high returns. So we believe Alstom is well positioned to exploit this growth going forward. And we are the #1 player in the services market. We outrank our competitors consistently, sales revenue of over EUR 3.4 billion combined. And we're not only growing, but also our ability to win major services projects is also growing, particularly after the acquisition of Bombardier, and we saw that with Tren Maya. If you take the Delhi and rapid transit metro, for example, 210 cars for 15 years maintenance. Those cars were built by Alstom. This is the first time in India where rail procurement and maintenance have been bundled in the same procurement, which shows even the most capable of national operators are looking to outsource to address their pressures from a cost and technological perspective. Also, it demonstrated very well our digital-driven maintenance solutions can be very competitive in every segment. We have over 15,000 employees, 250 sites in over 40 countries, a EUR 25 billion backlog which we're intending to grow. So Alstom has got the right portfolio service offerings, a scalable portfolio which allows us to give the right solution to the clients to address their commercial, operational and social economic requirements. And we have a unique one-stop shop. We have the full portfolio which allows us to support the asset for its entire life cycle from cradle-to-grave. The last piece of that puzzle and that portfolio was acquired as a consequence of the purchase of Bombardier train operations. This allows us to provide a fully integrated solution now to our clients, driving cost and operational efficiencies. It also gives us a bigger insight into technologies and to experiences which previously you wouldn't add. Customer intimacy improves, and return of experience feeding into our Rolling Stock designs. We've also benefited from the combination of our traction and modernization capabilities. We've now got a full suite of green traction. We also benefited hugely from the convergence of our design, engineering and digital solutions capabilities. That means we can provide a full suite of products to our clients. And size does matter. Our capabilities, our capacities, our proximity and customer intimacy means that we can project our capabilities to everywhere in the world, and that's a huge factor for our clients. Now our clients are key to our growth, customer intensity, intimacy, focus. And we believe with the right strategy, we can outpace the growth in the market by 2x. Underpinning that will be our innovation, not just in terms of our scalable solutions and fine-tuning our current offerings, but using our size to enhance and expand our premium positioning, also driving partnerships and M&A where it gives us the advantage. Also what's critical is an unwavering focus on our execution, are the right people and the right to perform and execute at a world-class level consistently. This is fundamental to the service we offer to our clients. Now let's go in a little bit more detail in terms of the strategy. Our strategy is built upon 4 growth pillars and 4 enablers. Those 4 growth levers and the 4 enablers, we believe, give us the core foundation to open up the potential of this market. It gives us a benefit of having both long-term growth and stability, but that translated into the short-term profit to maximize shareholder interests. It also allows us to not just drive and be responsive and competitive to formal tender process but also to drive and accelerate the opening of the market. And we saw that with some of our projects, which we've won recently. In terms of the growth levers, an intense focus on our maintenance business. We've got 150,000 vehicles as an installed base. We can upsell our existing fleet of 35,000 as well as going to beyond that. Increased globalization of our parts and component repair and overhaul business. Customer intimacy is critical, but also customer dependency and ease of transaction will allow us to grow that business. Expand our operations outside of North America and the APM sites, and also reinforce our position on smart and green traction, the ability to solve the pressures which our clients are seeing in terms of funding and environmental pressures to drive their current assets. And as we see through the presentation, the enablers are fundamental to achieving that growth. Now in terms of maintenance market, Alstom is #1 not just in terms of sales revenue and certainly not just in terms of its ability to have the best tools, techniques, processes and technologies. Its ability to capture this growing market is also underpinned by our innovation in terms of commercial, financial and contractual solutions for our clients, to be able to tailor those solutions to clients' needs. And we saw that with the R151 project in Singapore, where a compelling solution by Alstom changed the client's philosophy and also opened up their procurement strategy, giving us a number of contracts as a consequence. And laser focus on cost, risk and upsell means that the services market in respect to maintenance is also extremely stable. 97% of our contracts either continue to meet the ask-bid margin or grow, majority being the latter. And a good example being the U.K. for the Voyager and the Pendolino contracts. These both contracts are over 20 years old, but both have consistently delivered increasing margins whilst being able to improve customer value and satisfaction. It's where we pioneered the benefit share program to ensure collaboration between ourselves, the government and the clients. The services maintenance market is also very scalable. And this allows us to tailor solutions to the needs and constraints of the clients. The Amtrak TSSSA is a good example. This not only provides Amtrak with all preventative, corrective and overhaul parts but provides off-site overhauls, on-site technical support and fleet planning. That means Amtrak is gaining the benefit of Alstom's engineering, operational and digital strength whilst retaining their own blue collar. Now this is a particular interest to the national operators. They want to modernize. They want to gain efficiencies. They want to manage the technological risk that comes with new trains. But also, they're constrained by the need to retain their frontline staff, and the TSSSA model gives that. Now our book-to-bill is consistently over 1. We've now got 50 contracts where -- which are over 20 years in duration. We maintained 35,000 vehicles out of an installed base of 150,000. And we see considerable growth not just in the upsell of those 35,000 vehicles but also in the 115,000. In addition, we're also expanding beyond Alstom assets. Around the world, we maintained successfully operationally and financially non-Alstom assets, in Australia and North America being 2 good examples. So we see the market for maintenance growing and Alstom being very, very well positioned to capture that given its technology and its foundations. New rolling stock maintenance, and greenfield turnkey and O&M takes about 3 to 5 years to translate order intake into sales. The parts business, the parts and overhaul business, alongside brownfield O&M can translate order intake to sales in a matter of months. Now we believe this gives us an ideal combination to ensure maximize shareholder interests, [indiscernible] [ usability ], churn, sales and return. And in respect to the parts and overhaul business, we have a clear strategy. We're combining the strength of the 2 legacy companies, gaining efficiencies where possible but using their complementary footprint to improve and expand our service coverage to our client base. We're increasing customer intimacy but also customer dependency and ease of transaction, which will ensure customer return. We're expanding the market and our offering, not only in respect to strategic partnerships with our supply chain and through M&A, but also in, in-house expansion of our capabilities. And we're enhancing our aftermarket protection, making sure that we use IPR, strategic partnerships and other means to protect the aftermarket and ensure the sales come to Alstom. Now a key component to this strategy is the globalization of the management of our suppliers, not only to ensure we get maximum value from our size and our strength, but also to align strategically with our suppliers to ensure that we deliver the best possible solution and product to our clients and align on investment over the long term. Now train operations are new to the Alstom business. It provides us with the full suite of solutions that a client needs to operate trains. And when combined with our traditional approach to maintenance, it gives us a fully integrated solution, driving efficiency savings and performance improvements. It also gives us that return on experience, which we mentioned earlier. That business has been extremely successful, particularly in North America, both in respect of our financial and operational performance. It also has a significant improvement in our customer intimacy, and we see customer satisfaction and passenger satisfaction rates increasing when Alstom take over. A good example of that is GO Transit in Toronto, a commuter railway which serves the entire Greater Toronto area. Now our strategy for train operations is going to be selective. The market is huge, so it enables us to be selective. We will pick and choose the projects which -- where we provide the greatest value to our clients, either in a strategic partnership or as a stand-alone solution. And we do see that market growing in Europe, in North America, in Asia Pacific and also in the Middle East. Now we see modernization also as a considerable growth market. We mentioned the acquisition of Bombardier gives us a full suite of green solutions, hybrid battery and hydrogen technologies, different technologies for different duty cycles. We can offer the full suite to the client base. But also, our modernization to extend vehicle life by over 20 years, to introduce new capabilities and passenger amenities relieves the pressure that our clients are facing in respect to funding and passenger behaviors. And that helps us reduce cost, helps our clients to reduce cost. A good example of this is the French National Railway's AGC fleet, a diesel fleet, which we'll convert into battery technology. This conversion will allow that train to operate 80 to 120 kilometers on pure battery capability. It also allows that train to reduce its energy consumption by 20%, as we capture the energy from braking which previously was lost. So we see the modernization market growing, and we will bring new solutions to market, particularly with our interface with Rolling Stock, as new technologies developed for new build that are made retrofittable for existing Rolling Stock. But this market is also important because with the new technologies being introduced to existing fleets, it changes our relationship with our client base, longer-term relationships, longer-term intimacy, benefiting our parts business and maintenance business. Now in terms of enablers, we've already stated people, partnerships, innovation, digital solutions are going to be critical to our growth. Services is a people business, and we need to make sure we have the right people with the right skills. So we embarked upon an integrated and systematic program to not only ensure we attract the right talent going forward, but to make sure that we retain and develop our existing talent. Mergers and acquisitions have been a strong success factor for Alstom over the years. And going forward, we intend to still leverage that capability for targeted select solutions to either expand our capabilities, allow ease of entry to new markets or segments. A good example of this is the Shunter procurement in the Netherlands, which has given us strategic maintenance bases for our locomotive clients. Another example being the procurement and acquisition of IBRE and Flertex, brake discs and brake pads. Not -- that has not only opened up new sales avenues to us, giving us a competitive solution to bring to market, but also significantly benefited our maintenance contracts by addressing 2 of the major cost drivers under our maintenance contracts. Our digital solutions have underpinned our competitiveness for several years. The convergence of the Alstom and Bombardier road map has given us an even stronger position. And going forward, we intend to continue to invest in that area. The R&D investment will be better utilized, given the strength of both organizations. And our innovation, not just technological innovation, but financial and commercial innovation, the ability to scale our solutions to our clients to address their needs, whether that the social economic, financial or operational. Now the acquisition has given Alstom a new scale, and that's changed the dynamic of how we are competitive in this services market. Not only are we able to deliver a better solution to our clients, and our clients is the focus and the center of everything we do, we're able to deliver greater solutions, more proximity, better capability. Also, we're able to develop our people and add an organization, which has got the breadth of skill necessary to meet the client demands. The focus on operational excellence, the move towards depots of the future, combining the Bombardier philosophy with the Alstom philosophy, which has now given us a much more comprehensive philosophy going forward. And those skills and that convergence of strategies and philosophies, we've calculated, had given us already a 5% competitive advantage compared to preacquisition when it comes to maintenance and O&M tendering. Our digital solutions will remain a key component of our enabler. It will generate sales, but we believe the premium positioning for digital solutions the next 3 to 5 years is enabling our maintenance, our O&M businesses. And let's take a good look at our current offerings for digital solutions. [Presentation]
Matthew Byrne;President, Services
executiveSo let's look at the key takeaways. The rail services market is growing but still remains largely untapped. Alstom is the undisputed number one leader in the services market, and with the acquisition of Bombardier, it's now got the full suite of solutions and people and capabilities to ensure that we fulfill the growth aspiration and potential of this organization. So let me now hand across to Laurent Martinez.
Laurent Martinez
executiveGood morning, everyone. Thanks for listening in. I will be presenting you now the financial framework of our Alstom in Motion 2025 strategy. First of all, let me guide you through the recent achievement as part of our Alstom in Motion strategic plan on the Alstom standalone legacy perimeters. Overall, we made positive progress towards our Alstom in Motion financial objectives, and we have been resilient to the COVID-19 crisis since March 2020. Starting with the backlog, where we have secured more than EUR 42 billion of order book. On sales, we limited the impact in 2021, and we are back on growth trajectories with close to 5% in our second half 2021. Profitability-wise, we made positive step with 8% profitability in 2021, i.e., 50 basis points above '18/'19. Finally, we secured recurring positive cash flow generation across the years, including in 2021. All of this, despite the environment impacted by C-19, Alstom standalone stand firm on our Alstom in Motion trajectory. Now turning to the future. We have made our framework within Alstom in Motion 2025 strategy, integrating Bombardier Transportation, adapting to our new company profile. So starting by looking at the top line. We are targeting above 5% of CAGR over the part 2021 to '24/'25, 2021 pro forma sales being at EUR 14 billion. So what are the key drivers? Number one, very positive market momentum, accelerated by government stimulus packages. And you have seen our recent successes, we -- combining the strength of the new group. EUR 6 billion of order intake in Q1 '21/'22 with healthy margin, demonstrating clearly that we are benefiting fully from this positive market traction. Second, our strong backlog EUR 74 billion as of March '21, which is securing EUR 30 billion of sales for the next 3 years. The dynamic above market growth is supported by all our product line. Rolling stock, growing above market pace; Services growing at strong mid-single-digit pace with huge potential, as explained by Matt; Signaling, enjoying the growth rate at high single digit, benefiting from positive market catalysts both on the urban and mainline, as you have seen with Jeff. So in terms of top line, sitting on a dynamic market and expecting solid growth for all our business. Looking at the profitability now of the new group. We are targeting an adjusted EBIT margin between 8% to 10% from '24/'25 onwards. As a reminders, we consider the combined entity group proxy profitability of circa 5% in 2021. Profitability uplift will be driven by 3 main elements: First, volume with strong top line growth associated with control of S&A and R&D investment moving toward 3% of sales by the end of the plan; second, margin and efficiency, including operational excellence initiative, building on Alstom track records such as best cost countries step-up; stabilization and execution of our challenging rolling stock project in the first years; continuous improvement of gross margin on new orders; and finally, product line mix, while we confirm the product line margin ambition range provided in the AiM strategic plan. Third, of course, progressive execution of synergies from the acquisition that I will detail on next slide. In terms of synergies, we do confirm our road map to achieve EUR 400 million of cost synergies run rate in year 4 to 5. Delivery will be progressive across the plan and structure on the following axis: Number one, financing synergies which will kick in by aligning financing cost of BT with Alstom profile; second, procurement synergies with savings benefiting from new scale, massification of purchase, commercial power, best cost sourcing, design to cost, this both on in direct and indirect community; third, process and efficiencies by reducing overlap on tenders, project management, together with standardization of processes, methods and tools across the group; fourth, utilization of R&D project and structure cost overall optimization; and finally, industrial footprint are vesting on our manufacturing, engineering centers of excellence in BCC countries such as India, Eastern Europe or Mexico. Overall, we are very confident on synergy execution. It will be delivered across all dimensions, thanks to rigorous synergies execution plan. As you know, these synergies will lead to implementation expense of around 1 year of run rate. So now looking closer at this fiscal year. Our focus will be definitively on project stabilization, including industrial ramp-up, resulting in significant cash impact in '21/'22. Related to project stabilization, as Benjamin Fitoussi mentioned, we are deploying our action plan with meaningful progress on product technical performance, development, industrial supply chain deliveries, for instance, in Derby, quality of our deliveries to our customers and reliability of our product and the SBB growth, productivity growth program is a very good example for that. Overall, we do confirm project risk assessment and associated provision booked in our account for our fiscal year 2021. This action will have significant cash impact during this fiscal year with minus EUR 1.6 billion to minus EUR 1.9 billion free cash flow impact in H1, driven by project stabilization effort on engineering, supply chain, together with phasing and industrial ramp-up of our large rolling stock projects. We will turn to cash generation as of second half of '21/'22, driven by deliveries take up, sound cash generation in Alstom legacy perimeters and progressive working capital stabilization. Looking ahead, we do see yearly positive free cash flow generation towards our midterm target. On the midterm, in terms of cash generation, we do target above 80% of cash conversion from net income from 2025 -- '24/'25 onwards, consistent with our previous Alstom in Motion target. Four key axis to deliver this target. Delivery performance driven by sound project execution, on time, on quality, on cost delivery across the board. This is, as you know, our main foundation. Stabilization of working capital, reduction of CapEx toward 2% of sales. And finally, positive impact of our cash focus program which will be deployed across the group on tender, inventory, supply chain management, together with specific cash incentive implementation. Overall, we are very confident in reaching above 80% free cash flow conversion from '24/'25 onward, building on sound project execution and consistent deployment of our structured cash focused program. Now looking at the capital allocation. We intend to protect our financial flexibility while pursuing growth opportunities and keeping a sustainable return for all our shareholders. First, I know it's important for us as a project-led industries, we are committed to maintain our investment-grade profile. Second, we keep flexibility to pursue external growth and focused bolt-on M&A in the field of signaling, services or specific technology as we have done in the last 12 months. Finally, we do commit on a sustained shareholder dividend policy in the range of 25% to 35% payout. Looking at value creation, EPS uplift will be delivered with sales above 5% of CAGR, margin improvement driven by synergies and operational excellence, positive contribution from our joint ventures in China and Russia, all of this turning into a very significant, appears, step up along the plan. So to wrap up, we have set ambitious targets in our Alstom in Motion 2025 strategy, confirming our ambition to strengthen our leading position in the industries and to provide our customers best-in-class solution. To sum up, 5% of CAGR on sales, benefiting from our buoyant market, adjusted EBIT between 8% to 10%, leading to a -- leading profitabilities with efficiencies and sound execution; sustained midterm cash flow generation with the objective of a cash conversion of above 80% from '24/'25 onwards; and finally, 25% to 35% net income payout. Thank you very much for your attention and I leave back the floor to Henri for the conclusion.
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveThank you, Laurent, and thank you to all my colleagues who have presented to you the strategies of their different product lines. It's now time to conclude. As you have seen during the presentation, Alstom is today benefiting from an exceptional market, a unique market. I mean the train renaissance is absolutely unprecedented. On this market, we have all what we need to be extremely successful. We have a very large footprint, a very large portfolio of technology, of products, of solutions that we can leverage to better serve our customers. Of course, innovation will stay at the heart of Alstom's strategy. We are already well known for our innovation capabilities, but we need to significantly enhance these capabilities. We have now a very clear road map, fully engaged teams in order to push Alstom towards new horizons, in order as well to integrate Bombardier Transportation and to combine the 2 groups in order to create a world-class company. We have set for ourselves ambitious targets, which I remind you, 5% growth year after year, which will lead to a market share increase of 5 points, 8% to 10% EBIT -- adjusted EBIT which is normalized, I would say, world-class profitability. And last but not least, 80% cash flow conversion going forward. I just want to end my presentation by outlining the importance of all our colleagues worldwide. All what we do is entirely due to the dedication, the engagement, the commitment of our 70,000 employees worldwide. Their expertise, their professionalism is absolutely needed to bring the solutions to the market and, fundamentally, to lead the way to greener and smarter mobility worldwide. Thank you for your attention. And now I will invite you to follow me to go to the Q&A session. Thanks a lot.
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveSo thank you again for your attention. It's now time to take your questions. I've been told that there are a few people lining up for questions. So let's get started, and let's have the first question being asked.
Operator
operatorOur first question is from Alasdair Leslie from Societe General.
Alasdair Leslie
analystSo just a couple of questions. First one is a little bit more detail on the free cash flow guide. I was just wondering if you can confirm how much of the sort of circa sort of EUR 500 million of cash release from BT's excess contracts assets you expect to benefit from in H1 or H2 this year, if at all. And Laurent, I think you also said in May at the full year results that downpayments could be very significant this year. And we've seen obviously a strong order intake in Q1, a buoyant pipeline still. So do you need a strong level of downpayments to achieve the positive cash flow in H2 as well? Or does that kind of represent further upside risk? And then the second question was just a quick one on Signalling. Previously, you had an ambition there to achieve double-digit margins in Signalling. Can you say where that kind of pro forma margin stands now as a kind of starting point? And how much of the gap you can kind of continue to close with the #1 player there given your sort of strong growth ambitions as well?
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveNo, thank you for your questions. Indeed, in terms of working capital requirements, as you have seen, H1 will be fully dedicated to ramp up the production facilities across the globe in order to serve our customers, in order to make sure that we are stabilizing the projects, notably of course, coming from the Bombardier portfolio. So yes, the credit entirety of EUR 1.6 billion to EUR 1.9 billion will come from this working capital evolution. But maybe as you are referring to Laurent comments, I will hand over to Laurent for further details, and then I will come back on the Signalling questions.
Laurent Martinez
executiveSo thanks, Alasdair. So in terms of the contract assets you are mentioning, this is all part of the guidance we are referring to, the EUR 1.6 billion to EUR 1.9 billion negative in H1. We are turning in H2 to a positive cash generation, thanks to the delivery pickup that we are seeing in France, U.K., India in the second half and the incremental sales profit going with it. And we will have, indeed, in H2, positive impact expected from the LC order intake pipeline. We are looking ahead of it. So this is all part of our positive cash for our H2 '21/'22.
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveThank you, Laurent. On Signalling, I will hand over to Jean-François Beaudoin. Let me tell you that in general terms, the Bombardier acquisition was not dilutive as far as Signalling was concerned. The margin within Signalling Bombardier was of the same order of magnitude as ours, and we are actually pretty good in recording a lot of small contracts, quite good -- highly good or highly relative small contracts. And yes, as you said, we -- not only we intend to be #1 in terms of size, but we also intend to have a world-class margin in Signalling, which as you know, is definitely a double-digit one. But maybe, JF, you can say more about that.
Jean-François Beaudoin
executiveIt's correct, Henri, what you said. The profitability of Signalling from legacy Bombardier and legacy Alstom were, at the end, fairly similar. I'm not sure we communicated explicitly on a double digit or not. I'm not sure we'll go and mention any specific numbers today, but the road towards best-in-class margin, which indeed is double digit is very clear. One of the key aspects is, of course, leveraging our BCC footprint. Rationalization of our portfolio and digitalization of our portfolio will, of course, increase the top line, and we expect to create R&D synergies, of course, which is one of the key levers because we are a very R&D-native business.
Operator
operatorOur next question is from Guillermo Peigneux from UBS.
Guillermo Lojo
analystIt's Guillermo from UBS. I wanted to ask maybe a couple of questions regarding the free cash flow again. I wonder whether you could give any granularity on the first half free cash flow guidance as to how much of the cash outflow is driven by project stabilization and how much is driven by pure working capital needs. And then a second question on the free cash flow for the second half of this fiscal year and probably the next year, could you be a bit more granular? I think we're trying to obviously understand how much do you mean by significant cash outflow in this fiscal year. So how much will be the cash inflow or at least a little bit of guidance on how much can we see in the second half? And then second, when you say gradual conversion towards the over 80% free cash flow target, what are your aspirations or ambitions in fiscal year -- or next fiscal year? If you could shed some light on those, I will be very thankful.
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveThank you for the question, really. Indeed, I mean, as you know, the variation of our free cash flow is entirely due to the working capital change. So actually, when you look at our profitability, then what drives the difference between the free cash flow and our profitability is a working capital change. So during H1, the vast -- the majority of the cash outflow will come from this working capital chain variation. We have not given any guidance for the full year because, indeed, what we need to do, what we want to do is definitely to stabilize the project. So wherever we need to invest in supply chain, in resources in order to stabilize this project, we will do it. So yes, we think and we -- that is our guidance that we'll be cash flow positive during the H2 as well as during the subsequent semesters and years after that. But still in terms of detailed numbers, it will vary depending on some of the projects. We also want, as you know, to stabilize the customer relationship. And for that, we have a number of discussions with some customers. So depending on the results of this discussion, the timing of these results, it may also influence the cash of H2. That's why we have concentrated on giving you a guidance for H1, and then we'll have a gradual ramp-up year after year as we are stabilizing work projects and as we are also entering into all the discussions with the customers. I don't know if you want -- Laurent, you want to add something on that?
Laurent Martinez
executiveNo, I think that H2 is indeed stemming from the deliveries pick up as well incremental sales, and that's why we are expecting definitively cash positive in the second half. And then we explained the volatility we have usually as well around the midterm perspective.
Operator
operatorAnd our next question is from James Moore from Redburn.
James Moore
analystI thought I'd go back to Signalling and free cash flow, please. On Signalling, you talked about a 9% margin previously. Could we confirm that the pro forma margin was roughly 9% last year? And I believe Siemens, in their signalling business, made just over 15% last year. Do you really say you can do a 600 basis point increase in signaling in 4 fiscal years? On the free cash flow, Henri, you talked about drawing a line in the sand 2 months ago after we dropped EUR 750 million of free cash flow and increased the debt reclassification by EUR 450 million. We've now gotten another EUR 1.6 billion, so that's EUR 3 billion of cash like burn in 8 months. What moved the line so much so quickly? And can you give a bit of shape to years 2, 3 and 4? Are we going 25%, 50%, 80% conversion in a straight line? Or do you see a hockey stick at the end?
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveNo -- thank you, James. I think in terms of margin of Signalling, as being said, we have never given any precise guidance. What we said, it was high single digits, and I do confirm this is high single digit, and this was the pro forma so as being said by JF a few minutes ago. Again, the Bombardier portfolio was more or less in line with the Alstom portfolio, so the high single digit is there. Similarly, I mean, Siemens has given some hints on the margin but are not really disclosing precisely the margin of signalling. And we know that within Siemens, it varies from one year to another one. So we are basically agreed on saying that it should be double digit. I will not say that it would go, and I will not comment on the 15%, but you can read my words that it's probably a little bit of a high number at that stage. So we are probably more in the low double digit rather than the 15%. And I think it's, on average, it's similar to the Siemens even though again, these numbers are not public. So we just take out from your own comments and your dialogue with [indiscernible]. Now coming [indiscernible] one, the amount of provisions, we had to book at the end of March of last year, as you know, in order to face the risks, which were embedded in the Bombardier portfolio. And here, I was very clear. I said I'd draw a line in the sand saying that we looked at the portfolio of Bombardier, and we said these were the risks embedded in this portfolio. And I confirm, and we have not -- what we announced today is by no means an increase of this level of provisions. Then -- and we said it as well at the end of March and during our May announcement that we need to find what was the trajectory in order to get back to a more normal situation. And we knew that basically Bombardier had earned, I would say, unsound relationships with the suppliers, with the customers and so forth. So we need to reestablish these relationships. We need as well to ramp up the manufacturing facility. There is -- just to give you an order of magnitude, we will produce during the second half 35% more cars than during the first one. And of course, this requires heavy investment in terms of supply chain. So it's 2 different aspects. One is definitively the risks which are embedded in the contract. And two is what is the cash which is needed to get back to a more normal working capital situation, considering a more normal, I would say, working capital situation, which is in line with the level of production, which is anticipated in the future years. Because when I said that we are going in H2, of course, this level will be sustained for the future years. So in a way, it's a new normalized working capital evolution. And also, as I said, we need to have customer satisfaction as being our first, first priority. So we need to ramp up the production and to deliver as fast as possible all our trains and certainly not start to try to save some cash and delay further and further the deliveries of our trains.
Operator
operatorOur next question is from Simon Toennessen from Jefferies.
Simon Toennessen
analystMy first question is on the margin target of 8% to 10%. Could you be slightly more specific here as to how you see Alstom stand-alone here and BT? Obviously, you had the 9% plus margin target for '23, even competitor targets now 10% to 13%. So is it fair to assume that you think Alstom stand-alone will be a 10% plus margin business by '25? And then correspondingly, BT, obviously, at a lower level? So just a bit more color on that would be helpful. Secondly, on the synergies. In one of your opening remarks, Henri, you said the longer you look at the deal, the more you see the synergies. How do I interpret this in line with you confirming the synergy target? Do you think there's upside eventually and you're just trying to be conservative today to stick to the target? Also, maybe just a bit more color on revenue synergies, which I don't think are included in your current guidance. And then very lastly, on your investments in digital and green initiatives and services. How do I think about the competitiveness of the market overall with a lot of investments in these initiatives? Do you think it really favors now large players over the coming 5 to 10 years at the expense of smaller players? Just how you see competitiveness in light of this.
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveYes. Thank you for the question. Frankly, it's going to be very difficult to give you any color on the margins or the ex-Alstom margin and ex-BT margin. Today, we have now a portfolio of projects, and we have merged the 2 portfolios, and now we are managing, as you know, our company by geography. So in the U.K., we've got a portfolio of projects combining the 2 legacy companies and Germany, France, the same. So it's very difficult to follow. And in the future, it will be impossible to follow what was the margin of one or the other one. What I want to tell you today is that the margins, which is embedded in our backlog, and I'm talking now the global Alstom portfolio is superior to the margins that we are trading today and the margin that we are recording from new order intake is also better than the margin, which is today in the backlog. So we are starting what we did in the past within Alstom, and it was a few years ago, which is this virtuous circle, while you are trading lower margin projects and we are recording higher margin projects and your backlog is improving with time. Of course, this needs to have a proper execution of the projects so that the margins within the backlog is not deteriorating, and that's the key to this virtuous circle that we are starting. So to tell you, in 2025, what would have been the margin of the portfolio within Alstom and Bombardier, frankly, does not really make sense. And by the way, in 2025, 80% of the sales will come from projects which would have been recorded in the meantime. So already today, the projects that we are recording during the first quarter with -- as I remind you, it's pretty high, EUR 6 billion of orders, EUR 6 billion plus. Where are they coming from? Is it an Alstom portfolio or a Bombardier portfolio? Nobody can say. So let's focus now globally on the Alstom global portfolio, and we cannot really split between the 2. On the synergies, I'm fully with you. I mean I say it and I'm very much impressed, and my colleagues probably would confirm that the more we talk between colleagues, the more ideas we find in terms of synergies, whether it's in terms of technical synergies, product platform synergies. I mean maybe I will give the floor to Matt. He will illustrate between HealthHub and Orbita, which were the 2 predictive maintenance tools of Alstom and Bombardier. Now where I'm prudent, cautious is in terms of timing. As I said, the first year of the plan will be entirely dedicated to the stabilization of the projects. And let me be clear with you. I will clearly prioritize stabilization of the projects over synergies. We are not going to try to perturb the supply chain, perturb the industrial setup, perturb the engineering setup just to have some synergies when project execution could be at risk. So yes, EUR 400 million is probably a conservative number, but we need to have the time to have these synergies being, I would say, fully embraced in our portfolio. But just to give you an example, again, I will give the floor to Matt to explain to you between HealthHub and Orbita, what were the complementaries between the 2 systems.
Matthew Byrne;President, Services
executiveThanks, Henri. So in terms of synergies, the -- we do see -- whilst there's a backlog benefit from footprint in terms of duplication, we see a benefit from skills and capabilities. The big driver is actually the merger of the strategies of the old BT and the old Alstom, which is driving a lot of the backlog improvement, which we see could be possible. HealthHub versus Orbita is one aspect. So instead of investing in 2 systems going forward, we've merged the systems, and we'll be investing in one system going forward, so we see an R&D benefit. But we're also seeing substantial opportunities going forward in terms of optimizing the backlog by merging the philosophies and moving away from standalone projects to hubs, which support projects. And that's arising from the technology to both Alstom and the old Bombardier. So the services backlog of EUR 25 billion, we've already said it's stable. We already said 95% -- 97% of those projects achieve their as bid or beyond in terms of margin. But we do see the technology which is in Alstom and the old Bombardier converging together to allow a reduction in R&D whilst still maintain our pace of investment in terms of output and the philosophies of the 2 companies, allowing us to extract more value from the backlog.
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveThank you, Matt. To your last point, and this is absolutely essential and crucial, yes, we do believe that the combination of Alstom and Bombardier, the new scope of Alstom, its worldwide presence, its new innovation capabilities will give us a competitive edge. I would say, otherwise, we would not have chosen this strategy. But it gives us our competitive edge on 2 sides. One, on the technology itself, and I can tell you tenders and customers are increasingly demanding in terms of energy savings, in terms of noise, in terms of weight, in terms of passenger comfort and so forth. So innovation is absolutely key. And in most of the tenders, you have at least 50%, 60% of the marks, which are related to these technology aspects. We do have also the question of localization. And more and more, and you know that this is a political trend worldwide, more and more, you have some requirements of localizing projects. Sometimes it's a pure -- I mean it's a compulsory. It's an obligation, a pure obligation like in the U.S. with the Buy American Act, for example. And sometimes as well, you get some extra points if you localize more than 25%, more than 30%, more than 50%. And we are quoting several times in the presentation the win in Mexico. And typically, in Mexico, we did get some extra points and, actually not to go into details, but these extra points, which we did get because of our localization in Mexico were absolutely instrumental in the fact that we won the contract. So we can multiply the example. Australia is another one. Canada and Quebec, now they are asking for localization as well. So this combination and this is -- that's why, I mean, this question is absolutely crucial. This is the combination of the high hand of the technology, the high level of technology and the possibility to localize, which will really give us a competitive edge against our competitors. And actually, there is no other competitors who benefit from such a combination.
Operator
operatorOur next question is from Martin Wilkie from Citi.
Martin Wilkie
analystIt's Martin from Citi. Just to come back on the cash flow. Can you clarify one point? And you talked about the working capital moves. But in the provision that you've taken, the EUR 1.1 billion roughly that you won in this contract, how much of that is going to be used in the first half of next year? So how much of the EUR 1.6 billion to EUR 1.9 billion is utilization of that provision? And therefore, how much would still be on the balance sheet at the end of the first half? So that was the first question. And the second question was, obviously, you raised some bonds and financing to finance the deal. I couldn't see any covenants as part of that. But just to clarify, are there any leverage covenants as part of the financing you've taken out as part of the deal financing?
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveThank you, Martin. I will hand over to Laurent for these questions. Clearly, the vast majority of the cash outflow for the first half will come from working capital and the pure, as I said, investment in supply chain and so forth. So I'm not saying that this cash outflow is due necessarily to provision consumption. We are working -- as I said, we're discussing with some customers, but I don't expect, during the first half, a massive cash outflow coming from these discussions. So it will be vastly coming from the working capital. On this balance sheet, global balance sheet, I will let Laurent -- so technically, I can tell you that we are committed to the investment grade, and therefore, we are committed to keep the same kind of, I would say, fees and so forth on our bonds and bonding requirements and so forth. But Laurent, maybe you can answer more technically.
Laurent Martinez
executiveYes. So on the first one, Henri explained, on H1, vastly a working capital movement. So there will be some provision, but this will be more over time. It will be more progressive. And on the financing, indeed, as you know, we have very strong cash liquidity as of end of March '21 of EUR 4.5 million (sic) [ EUR 4.5 billion ]. We are definitively continue to work in this enrollment. And to be specific to your question, we don't have any covenants to our bonding or credit line as we speak.
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveMartin, you had a follow-up question? Maybe? I don't know.
Martin Wilkie
analystSorry, yes, I do. Just on, obviously, the very good orders this quarter, roughly about EUR 6 billion, I think. There has been some market conjecture that would customers want other companies to commit to tender as high to keep a large number of potential suppliers and there were some fees of dyssynergies, and it seems that that's not the case. You've done very well with order intake so far. I mean have you had any negative comments about customers wanting to have other rail companies that may not previously have bid for customer contracts and now bids because Alstom and Bombardier are together? Or has that not been a feature or what you've seen so far?
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveNo, not at all. I think thank you for the question. It helps me to clarify a little bit how our market is working, because I've seen this comment. First, we have 1,000 customers. Their decisions are very much independent from one each other. So when a city is asking for a metro from Alstom, I mean the city next door or the city 100 kilometer away, 1,000 kilometer away will not take this decision depending on what the other cities are taking. So it's -- the point that you are raising could only happen in a very, very limited number of customers, which could take their decision at a very short period of time sometimes, and this is what I'm heading to, in the last decade, I mean I've been heading Alstom transform for 10 years now. I've seen maybe 2 or 3 cases where you have that. Sometimes it's very clear like in Riyadh, for Riyadh Metro, where we could not win more than 1 lot. It's a case today in Tel Aviv, for Tel Aviv Tram. You cannot win more than 1 lot and so forth. It's extremely rare that you have that, so maybe 2 or 3 times in a decade. And then when a city is like Singapore, for example, and I discussed that with Singapore, say, okay, you are now -- you are present in the majority of our lines. And then they have to balance, on one hand, they may say, as you say, okay, we need to have challengers and so forth, which they have. At the end of the day, let's not forget that what we are targeting is roughly 36% of market share. I mean we are -- 36% is far, far from being a dominant player. I mean that's -- 36% is 1/3. But still, they have this choice of saying, maybe we should multiply the number of holding stock provider. On the other hand, and that's what has been told to me by Singapore, they are benefiting from a huge investment of Alstom locally, and therefore, we can serve all their lines locally with local presence, local maintenance capabilities, local expertise with the value more than having 2, 3 or 4 different fleet. On the contrary, I say most of the customers are happy to have homogeneous fleet and more importantly, to have a fleet which can be served by local people. What they hate, by far, is to have somebody coming delivering some trains and then going away for the next 40 years. So frankly, this is not at all -- I've seen that in a comment, but this is not at all the case. And this is not what we have seen commercially, and we had a very good quarter, and the perspectives are very good as well for the coming quarters and years. Thank you, Martin, for the questions.
Operator
operatorOur next question is from Daniela Costa from Goldman Sachs.
Daniela Costa
analystI would like to ask 3 questions. The first one on the organic growth target of the over 5%. I mean in the last -- excluding the COVID year, in the last 8 years, you did several years above that. And now there's much more stimulus, your positions in hydrogen and a lot of the things that you spoke about. So why are you still sticking to the 5%? Why isn't there an increment versus where you were in history? That's my first question. And the second question is just following up again, sorry, on the free cash flow point. You've anchored on the first half commentary to largely being an outflow on the working capital. But can you elaborate on the full year 2022 margin? Normally, you have a guidance for that. Why don't you have a guidance this year? Or maybe can you clarify there? And the third point related to this as well. Historically, it looks like your highest cash conversion in the past in the second half have been sort of around 90% or slightly over that. Should we think that it could be meaningfully different from history, this year, given all these strange movements around the legacy contracts and perhaps some deliveries on Bombardier? Or do you think sort of like that kind of historical seasonality still applies?
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveYes. Thank you for the question, Daniela. I mean you are trying to push us to give you more guidance, which I fully understand. On the growth aspect, we have given you some market perspective, which, by the way, these perspectives do not include some of the stimulus packages. I mean as you know, the Biden plan is extremely recent, and we need to know how it will fall through the sale. Maybe our cautiousness or prudence comes from the fact that these stimulus packages will feed some orders in 1 year or 2 years, probably in the U.S., which in turn we'll feel the growth in revenues in 3, 4, 5 years. So you will not see any impact of these stimulus packages, I mean this year, next year and so forth, which is purely the backlog deliveries. So we hope that we will do better than this 5%, of course. And I think we have everything in hand to do better, but at that stage, I will remain cautious and I will stick to this 5%. On the margin and on short-term guidance. Historically, we didn't give any really short-term guidance. We did it when we had very specific operations, for example, on our capital and things like that, where we really needed to give some very short-term guidance on what's going to be our results announcement, 1 month, 2 months, 3 months after the operation. We prefer -- we are in a long-term business, a long-term market, so we prefer giving you long-term guidance, which I think is more in line with our business model. I also think that short term, as we know, in cash flow, you have some volatility. And rightly so, as you said, Daniela, it's all the moving parts today are quite -- are probably even more moving than in the past because you have the working capital evolution as we have seen. We have large downpayments, as being said by Laurent, but we have also, as we have said, the provisions that we need to cash out. And I don't know exactly the timing of this cash out. As I said, we want to privilege customer satisfaction. We want to privilege the production over some short-term cash optimization. So we have a lot of moving parts, and I don't think that what has happened in the past is a good proxy of what will happen during H2. So I will stick to my comment that we will definitely be cash positive during H2. The extent of it really remains to be seen. And to be fair, depending -- and I will then be, of course, transparent with you at that point in time. Depending if it's a cash out related to provision, which has to be expensed, for example, which is already been booked, it's going to be good news if we can do it before the year-end. I mean the sooner the better. If we can come up with an agreement with the customers and so forth, that's definitively better. So I don't want to overcommit on H2. I think it's good to have a progressive ramp-up of our cash flow, and this was a previous question as well. It would be a progressive ramp-up, but we are -- as we are stabilizing the working capital, as I said, that as we are cashing out the different provisions, increasing the profitability. But to be fair, difficult to take the past as a proxy of what will happen in the next few months. Laurent, you want to add things to that?
Laurent Martinez
executiveNo, it's clear.
Operator
operatorOur next question is from Gael de-Bray from Deutsche Bank.
Gael de-Bray
analystLook, I have so many questions. I don't even know where to start, but I guess the main surprise today is obviously the negative cash development in H1. And it's just that, I mean, you previously sort of suggested that free cash flow could indeed be negative this year, but that there was perhaps still a possibility to see it positive. So now we are talking about a very big negative numbers. So what's changed so much over the past couple of months, really? What I'm trying to understand is to what extent this is purely related to an acceleration of the manufacturing and the supply chain buildup for BT's tribal projects or is there something else? So that's question number one. The second question is on the targeted cash conversion rate. Could you actually confirm that the 80% level is calculated on the adjusted net income before PPA? The third question I have is on the margin performance at BT. I know you don't really want to comment about BT versus Alstom anymore, but is it fair to say that the margins have not fully developed according to initial expectations for BT and that they are hardly around 2% this year rather than the 3% to 4% level than had been previously suggested? And if I may add a final one, in the interest of time, I will stop here. But on the BT execution side, I mean, you've talked a lot about their managerial issues, the lack of coordination, the lack of resources. But I was also wondering to what extent Bombardier had been this sort of price spoiler that people have talked about in all their tenders in the past 5 years and how this consolidation move may actually change the pricing dynamics for the industry going forward in a significant way or not.
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveNo, thank you, Gael. Difficult to comment on all your points. On free cash flow, I don't know what -- I mean we have never guided, to my knowledge, on what should be the cash flow of this year previously. There may be -- we were -- and I fully admit it and I fully confirm it that we have guided a lot on the provisions that we have taken and the fact that they would be cashed out progressively. On the working capital evolution, I don't know if there had been an acceleration or so forth. I mean we knew when we worked on what was needed in order to accelerate the production. It's true that we are now 5 months from the acquisition. So 5 months ago, we had an idea of what to do. It has been confirmed. The ramp-up of production is probably stiffer than what we thought at the time, and therefore, the amount of effort which is being required in order to get to where we should be to satisfy our customers and to deliver this large amount of cars during H2 and forward is definitively very high. And that's what we are, today, disclosing. Again, I don't recall having really guided on this particular point, but true that this number, of course, was not known by the market today. And frankly, we worked on it a lot during the last months to work on the supply chain, to work on what again was needed for this to happen. On the 80% conversion, yes, I do confirm that this is on the adjusted net income. I don't know exactly and, Laurent, you may confirm, but in 4, 5 years, anyhow the PPA should start to decrease quite significantly. So the difference between adjusted net income and net income will be probably relatively seen in 4 to 5 years. But practically, you are right. This is -- I mean, this is to be compared with the adjusted net income. On the margin of BT and -- I mean, mathematically, I've not made the computation. I will confirm that this is as compared to the 3% to 4%, which was in the backlog, we are probably on the low side. So whether you've seen that during the last 2 months of last year, we have disclosed 2.7% as being the margin of BT. And it's clear that we are more in this vicinity. 5%, of course, was the pro forma of last year, ending March 2021. So this 2%, 2.7% is probably more of a number. And we are cautious, we are not giving any guidance for the first year. But as you'll hear from all our comments, we are cautious on this first year, first year being fully dedicated to the stabilization of the project. As I said, we put this stabilization as a priority, even over short-term synergies where we need to start to work on the synergies, but the stabilization of the project is a top, top priority. So we are cautious for the coming year. Definitively, that's the case. Last question, which is an interesting one. And Gael, we discussed in years and years, so you may recall some of my comments. The issue of who is the price spoiler of the market varies with time. And some of our competitors, they love to say and point out on one or the other being the price spoiler. Usually, when you lose a tender, you tend to believe that you are the one spoiled the price. I will not quote some tenders where Alstom has been said to have spoiled the price and now this projects are one of our best cash cows. So it's not black and white. I'm quite cautious on that. Myself has said at one point in time that Stadler was extremely aggressive and indeed they were very aggressive at one point in time. It's true that sometimes Bombardier was quite aggressive. Sometimes Siemens has been aggressive. So in general, of course, the consolidation of the industry is a good thing for the innovation. It's a good thing for the customers. I think it will drive our competitiveness, but I will not go into this debate of whether Bombardier was more of a price spoiler than Alstom, than CAF, than Stadler, than Siemens. Frankly, it's -- you tend to see the market through your own lenses and sometimes you like a little bit of rationalization. So I will not go in that direction. Thank you, Gael.
Operator
operatorOur next question is from Iris Zheng from Credit Suisse.
Xiaolu Zheng
analystI've got a couple of follow-ups. And the first one, and my apologies, is on cash -- free cash flow again. And I would like to ask more specifically about the working capital phasing, because it seems that in the first half, the net numbers will be mainly coming from the working capital phasing. And I'm more thinking about how this relates to the progression of the backlog delivery of BT and how front loaded is this when it comes to the working capital phasing. I.e., can we think about the big chunk, i.e., maybe 50 to 70 plus -- 50% to 70% of the negative working capital phasing will be done in H1, so that we will be seeing much, much less headwinds from it going forward? Or it's actually maybe it will be more gradual process than maybe I would have expected. And secondly, could you confirm that the majority of this working capital drag is from the BT backlog rather than on the Alstom side? So if there's any comments on the Alstom maybe legacy projects execution and working capital phasing, that will be also very helpful. And my last question is on BT again, because it sounds like today, you've mentioned a couple of times -- actually several times that, actually, you've found BT more complementary than maybe you have previously expected. And could you maybe comment on areas more specifically which maybe have surprised you on the upside once it comes to maybe BT being a bit more complementary to you?
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveYes. Thank you for the questions. First, to your first question on free cash flow. And again, I fully understand that there are plenty of questions on free cash flow, so no need to apologize for that. On the contrary, you're right. I mean most of the headwinds will be recorded in H1. And by the way, this is, I would say, purely mechanical or mathematical. If we want to deliver, and as we said, we'll deliver cash during H2. The variation of working capital, by definition, has to be much, much lower than the variation of working capital during H1 because to be at such a negative cash outflow during H1, it means that the variation of working capital is extremely large. And now as we are going to deliver [ cars ] during H2, of course, all the headwinds have to come from H1 definitively. And this is also in line with the ramp-up of our facilities. I can quote you a number of examples. I mean if you take Derby, and Matt was coming from the U.K. as well -- based in the U.K., knows that very well. I think at the beginning of the year, when Alstom acquired Bombardier, we were delivering a few cars per month, probably 4, 5 cars per month -- per week, sorry, per week. And now we are 20, 25 cars per week. So that shows you the ramp-up of the industrial capabilities. If you look at Crespin, I mean, we need as well in France to ramp up Crespin extremely stiffly. So to your point, the headwinds are vastly in H1 and then you add some volatility and so forth. But the bulk of the headwind is definitively in H1. And to your second point, and maybe this would be my last comment or at least today would be my last comment between Alstom and Bombardier, it's vastly coming from Bombardier. It's not entirely coming from the ex-Bombardier portfolio. Then on your question of complementarities, I can give you some example. What is extremely striking is when you talk to our tech people, I mean, when you are talking to the solutions, when you look at in the detail of the bricks, we have a lot of technological bricks. And then I'm sorry, because I will go to a very, very technical matter on for example, if we have very specific type of control of our buggies, of our trains, very specific features which are asked by customers, for example, very lightweight -- to take a simple one, lightweight buggies, for example. Bombardier has very lightweight buggies, which Alstom didn't have. And we could easily combine some of the Alstom products with these lightweight buggies of Bombardier. I will not spare you the details with what we call dual [ looming ], which was one very specific way of controlling our trains, which has been developed or is being developed by Bombardier, which we will apply to Alstom products as well. So where we see more complementarities is really in the technological part of it. Even to -- just to give you a very precise example, which is -- which came frankly as a very good surprise, is that when I -- we have what we call a CCN, which is Core Competency Network, which is basically regrouping all the experts of a certain discipline, hydraulics, train dynamics, electrical, software and so forth. And our guy -- the guy in charge is Chief Technological Officer of Alstom, who is in charge of animating this Core Competency Network, told me that he was extremely surprised that the strength and weaknesses of the 2 companies were definitively complementary. So you had plenty of experts in Bombardier which were covering areas which were badly covered by the experts of Alstom and vice versa. And therefore now, with the 2 set of experts together, we are really covering the full complexity, if I may say, all the disciplines which are necessary to ensure the good quality and the good performance of our trains. So my message to you is really coming from the day-to-day dialogue with everybody within the company. And the company is actually, when you discuss with the people inside, the company is extremely excited by all what can be done together. And this is proving to be extremely powerful within the company.
Operator
operatorOur next question coming from William Mackie from Kepler Cheuvreux.
William Mackie
analystA little like Gael, a long list of questions, but I'll try and concentrate on 3, and a clarification, please. Firstly, I understand your reluctance to guide on profits or cash. But at least at the top line, given your framework around the strong ramp-up in Rolling Stock and the growth potential in Service and Signalling, could you at least put a frame around where you see revenues for this year given that I think it's a very nonlinear progression in your growth profile to 2024/'25? That's the first qualification. The second would be just to ask your impression on how you would characterize the investment levels in and across the Bombardier operations. We've heard that there was perhaps an underinvestment in some project execution. But did you see a similar level of underinvestment around the technologies and the manufacturing capacities across the group? And what impact does that have on how we should think about CapEx going forward? And then the last, and I'll stop here, is around the Rolling Stock portfolio. It's great to hear that you have many technologies that you can cherrypick from. But when we think about the real-life cycle of rolling stock within the rail sector, which is very long, at what point could we start to see a trend towards rationalizing your product portfolio or platform portfolio and perhaps with it rationalizing the whole optimization of the components and the Rolling Stock footprint?
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveWell, thank you for the questions. First, in terms of revenues, yes, what we are investing today is to prepare the future growth. So you will see a progressive ramp-up of our revenues during the first half and the second half. Yes, we intend to have, I would say, I was prudent -- like to make it different, I was prudent on the margins, saying that it's going to take time because we are stabilizing the projects and revenues. Clearly, the average growth not only is a compounded average growth, but this is a growth that we should at least achieve a bit year after year. So that's something that we are aiming at definitively. Now in terms of investment, CapEx is not really the issue. We have a very large footprint today, so I don't expect any large CapEx needed in our industrial platform and even in the ex Bombardier platform. If we need to invest and if there was a lack of investment on the industrial platform of Bombardier, that was more in terms of digitalization. On the contrary, to some extent, I would say that here as well, if you compare -- but again, I promise this is really the last time I would compare the 2 legacy companies, but Bombardier was probably more advanced on some aspects of the industrial setup and they had some -- because they have very large factories. For example, you go, again, north of France with Crespin. They are aiming at delivering 1,000 cars per year, which is a huge number. So they had invested a lot in some of the tools and so forth, and they are continuing to invest in the tools. In terms of digitalization, it was far less advanced than Alstom. The good news, that it helps us in a way, I mean, if you want to look at it from the good angle, to deploy our tools. And when we have to create One Alstom, there will be no debate on whether you have to choose the processes and the tools which have been deployed and, I would say, developed by Alstom or the tools which have been developed by Bombardier because there is none -- no global tool which has been developed by Bombardier. So we are going to deploy relatively easily, I would say, with a good acceptance from all the teams all the tools which we have -- developed by Alstom. So don't -- on this one, you should not expect any pickup in CapEx. We have globally the footprint which is being required. Then on your question of Rolling Stock portfolio, this is a very, very important question. First, you need to know that in our world, we are not talking, as you know, like in the car industry, where you have 2 types of platforms. For each project, we have a platform which we are modifying, where we are complementing with different type of bricks in order to exactly suit to the customer needs. So we are working and the teams are working very heavily on aligning our different portfolio, starting, as you said, by the bricks or by the components, which is the most important one, starting by the components themselves and the portfolio itself before moving to the industrial platform. So that's why you may remember that I said that it would take a few years to really align the industrial platform. You first need to align our different platforms. Some of them, it's obvious. For example, the TRAXX locomotives from Bombardier, which is one of the bestseller in Bombardier. Of course, we -- at Alstom, we don't have similar locomotives for Europe, so that is easy. But even for this one, we may think and we have already proposed to the customers to actually implement within this TRAXX locomotive the onboard unit, i.e., the signalling equipment of Alstom and no more the signalling equipment of Bombardier. So already, we are taking this kind of decision to say now our new TRAXX offering will be the ex rolling stock coming from Bombardier, plus the signalling coming from Alstom. So this kind of decision, we take them one by one, but it will take, let's say, another 6 months to be very clear on exactly the full picture on all our product lines and on all our products. And then we'll implement, and then it takes 2 to 3 years for the industrial sites to really align to their new mission and new vision, i.e., you are going to do these kind of metros, these sites are going to do this kind of metro, which is always complex because also, as you know, we need localization. So you cannot decide to totally specialize your sites because you'll always need to have a kind of metrics between the technology, which is the core competence of a site, and the geography because you want to be close to your customers. I don't know if, Danny or Benjamin, you want to add something on this one.
Danny Di Perna;Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer
executiveMaybe just to the last point, I think what we've seen as we've put together the building blocks, as we presented earlier today, I think you're absolutely right, Henri. The rationalization, we shouldn't be in such a big rush because it takes time for the engineers to decide the best of best. And I think, as you just said, we have a great matrix of footprint, and we have such great components and platforms. Over time, we'll be able to probably rationalize and select one platform to sell. But right now, honestly, I think you're absolutely right, we should allow the engineers to cherrypick. It's already invested in, so it's the best opportunity for everybody to really find out what the design features and attributes should be for the winning solution.
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveWe don't intend -- I mean, again, our strength is to be on all markets. So we need really to find the right balance between standardization and [ modelization ] because we don't want to let down some markets. I mean I think we have the technologies to serve all the markets. This is one of the strengths of Alstom. We don't want to let down markets through this standardization. So it's a fine balance, and we will allow us a few months to do that. I think this is a key decision for the future.
Operator
operatorOur last question is coming -- our last question is from Jonathan Mounsey from Exane BNP Paribas.
Jonathan Mounsey
analystSo not on free cash flow. I think, obviously, you've given a number there. It's somewhat shocking. We'll see that in the stock price. But at least it's out there. The sale -- you gave a margin target for this year. I think we learned this last year with many companies. Usually, when you don't give targets for a single year guidance, it's because the range of possible outcomes is too wide and there's lack of visibility. I'm just worried that that's the scenario this time and that the risk is almost certainly to the downside. Can we at least comment directionally? Are margins likely to be down in FY '22 relative to FY '21? And then secondly, just to sort of understand kind of the risk profile around all of this when it comes to profitability and execution, a couple of years ago, I think Stadler had some problem projects, and they took some of their best people from around the group, moved them into those projects. And quite soon afterwards, the rest of the group started to have problems as well because those people were not where they should have been. I imagine a situation where the best people in Alstom are moving across now to Bombardier to help with this ramp and solve their problems. You can see that the risk profile on the core Alstom business, which has been going relatively well, is now starting to rise, too. Thus perhaps the focus moves to Bombardier and not to Alstom's day-to-day business.
Henri Poupart-Lafarge
executiveYes. Thank you. First, on your first point, let me be clear. We have decided not to give any guidance for the first year, not because we believe that, I mean, the margin will be nowhere, because we don't want to give that guidance for the first year, we want to give long-term guidance. We are starting from a 5% margin, which is a pro forma margin. As I said, I'm very cautious that will be the project stabilization. If I believe that the margin could go nowhere, I would have told. I mean it's a -- you could say as well the fact that there is no guidance as a proof that I don't think that there is a need to give any guidance, if I may say it like that. That's on your first point. The second point is more fundamental. And I think it's a -- gives me the opportunity to share with you exactly one of the core element of our turnaround of Bombardier. You're right, I mean, I don't want to comment on the story of Stadler, but I think I did it with some of you. And sometimes Stadler comments on us, so I may take this liberty of giving 1 or 2 comments. We knew it in the past, and you'll remember that Stadler went to a very, very fast-growth pattern. I mean they are seeing they've quasi doubled in size or they have doubled their project portfolio in a matter of 1 or 2 years. What we are doing here at Alstom is, yes, of course, we are mobilizing a lot of Alstom people to help the Bombardier people. But it's not like as if we are doubling in size without anybody, which was probably the case of Stadler. We are taking onboard 35,000 of Bombardier's employees, which, I can tell you and I -- we -- I have illustrated with the technological aspect, are extremely competent people. There were some managerial issues, strong managerial issues: lack of rigor, lack of discipline, lack of processes. That's true. But the managers themselves, the engineers themselves were not to blame in that project. So the point is that, of course, you're right, some of the Alstom people will come and help some of the Bombardier people, and that's what we are doing. And by the way, again, it would be the last time because now within the company, nobody knows who is ex Alstom or nobody knows who is ex Bombardier we are now 70,000 employees all working towards the same goal. But theoretically, you're right that there is a balance. We need to take care about the difficult projects. So we need to pay attention to these difficult projects. But we do believe that, indeed, this is something which we can do without endangering the rest of the portfolio of Alstom. And I'm very conscious of what you say. I have -- I mean, as I said, I've been running this business for the last 10 years, and this is the #1 goal, is to make sure that we keep the company under control. And that's why I can tell you that everywhere in the world, all our managers are taking the problems one by one and are solving the problems one by one with an extreme sense of responsibility of can and we need to do it and we need to keep it like that. And the last thing that we want is to transform ourselves into a kind of firefighting, running around the planet, and this is not at all what's happening today. And I think on this one, I'm absolutely confident that the perspectives that we give to ourselves or the decision that we made when we decided to integrate Bombardier, we knew that there would be some problems, but I can confirm to you that the combination of the Alstom team and the Bombardier teams are totally up to the challenge and are actually, and we can see a lot of signs of that, positive signs of that, of improvement of the delivery of our projects already today. So on that one, I absolutely -- no problems, no worry on that. And the situation which we are describing on Stadler, I know it extremely well. I have that on top of my head, and we -- I make sure that this does not happen to Alstom, that's for sure. I think this is ending now the -- our Q&A sessions. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you very much for your attention. There will be, of course, further dialogue, and Laurent is at your disposal to answer to all your questions going forward. I'm also thanking all the teams who have participated to this Capital Market Day. And again, for those of you who were not there at the beginning, we are here at the Line 15 of the new Paris metro. So I take also the opportunity to thank the Grand Paris for having given us the opportunity to hold this Capital Market Day within their own facilities and -- because we have an excellent relationship with the Grand Paris. And this is extremely, I would say, positive to be able to be there. So thank you, everybody, and talk to you soon. Thanks a lot.
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