Amdocs Limited (DOX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome, everybody. Tim Horan, Cloud and Communications Analyst. My pleasure to host Anthony again for probably about the 8th time over the last bunch of years from Amdocs. Anthony, what's your current title?

So I head technology, product and head strategy for the company amongst a few other things. Thank you for having me for the 8th time. Glad to be here.

Yes. So basically, you're running the company. I don't know what all those other management teams do there.

Apparently, I have good hair. So they keep me around.

And I think you're back in Texas because it's a nice clear day down there.

Yes, yes. It's a beautiful 108 degrees outside.

Well, I think last time we did this, there was actually a tornado coming right behind you while we were speaking.

We never know. We never know.

Summers in Texas. Well, Anthony, thanks a million. I guess a lot going on. You guys are migrating to the cloud. You're doing a lot on AI. It sounds like one of your first major AI contract and revenue growth is improving here. It sounds like the bookings. At a really, really high level, though, I get this question all the time, like a few years ago, you guys are growing almost double digit. And then you kind of went back to flat a little revenue growth. I mean can you just describe why are you growing so rapidly then? What was the thing that changed? Was there like certain customers are doing major projects and they stop that they might do it again? Or were there -- just any color around why?

Yes, sure. Look, I mean, the telecommunications market goes through these kind of cyclical periods for different reasons. For multiple reasons, right? There is the macro environment, obviously, that has an impact on cash, on them paying their dividends and things like that. But there's also cyclical periods on where they're spending and what they're spending on and where they're focusing on, right? So when, for example, you are going into a new set of technology or you're adopting a new set of technology or you're focusing on a new area of growth. There is a lot of activity kind of that happens. And so these cycles, I would say the key thing for us is being ready for the next wave. So over the last number of years, I think if you look at our consistency in terms of revenue and bookings and things like that, I think we always try to be ready for the next wave in terms of where our customers are going, what they're focusing on. So it doesn't matter if it's ubiquitous connectivity or Generative AI or migration to the cloud, right now, we feel like we have those good fundamental elements. So when our customers go, okay, here's something we really want to do because this is where we want to double down, Amdocs just becomes an obvious choice for them to select.

That's a great point. And what we've seen from the wireless industry in the U.S., I don't know outside the U.S. as much, but they had huge amounts of investments for 5G. And frankly, the balance sheet largely got destroyed. Now they're kind of working on improving the balance sheet. I think next year, the balance sheet look a lot better. And the other component, I think, that happened is 5G they got incremental revenue from fixed wireless, but they didn't really get it from a lot of new products and services they were talking about in terms of enterprise revenue or maybe even like charging for quality of service. But it looks like we're going to get stand-alone getting increasingly rolled out. And hopefully, that and the whole back end kind of gets upgraded that allows them to now create new products and services, but not to put words in your mouth, do you think stand-alone will be a big deal for them and getting the balance sheet in a better order a big deal for them to kind of resume growth?

Look, you are absolutely spot on, right? You're probably one of the people that really understand the depth of this. It's chicken in the egg in a way. So you have this capital investment you need to do to roll out 5G. And let's face it, like you don't have a choice, okay? You can't be a telco and say, well, I have the best 4G service. You have to roll out 5G for multiple reasons, right? But you start from the radios and then you go to the core network, which then enables you to do stand-alone but what we kind of have is this hybrid situation, right? You have the cost of capital, you have rolling out while you're not really seeing a huge additive upside in terms of 5G services. And on the other hand, what are you trying to sell, right? Are you trying to sell a standard service, a dedicated network slice for an enterprise, things like that. But then in order to do that, obviously, you need a stand-alone network. So I think if you kind of look at the spectrum of kind of 5G to obviously moving on to 6G, it's going to be this continuum, and you're going to have 5G stand-alone start to roll out. That, in addition with -- there is a very high focus right now as you're seeing everywhere on fiber, right, whether it be the JVs, I mean, you see obviously T-Mobile, AT&T, everyone really just focusing on kind of this rollout of fiber. I think this notion of -- I really like this notion of ubiquitous connectivity, right? Like at the end of the day, when you think of broadband, you can think of broadband broken up into multiple connectivity elements. So obviously, you've got fiber, which is the big chunk of it, which also enables where you kind of put different types of connectivity like 5G, then you have things like fixed wireless, right? And then you have the government coming out and saying, well, we're going to change the definition of broadband and moving up to 100 MB, right? So you have this kind of pressure on consumption, this pressure on saying, look, I don't care where I am, just connect me. And being able to deliver these, I think, will start to cause like a different type of behavior in the market. That, coupled with the fact that obviously, people are cleaning up their balance sheets, doing the right things, looking at key JVs in terms of -- to lower some of their capital costs of rolling out infrastructure. So there's all the right things happening and of course, from our perspective, we're focused on migration to the cloud. We're focused on, obviously, core transformations because there's still so many legacy systems around. Obviously, you saw the announcement of last year, I would say, a little bit ahead of the curve, we did the acquisition of Astadia, which really positioned us to help our customers migrate so much of the legacy mainframe infrastructure through the cloud. Generative AI, we feel like we came in kind of very early on. And if you ask me, I feel like I've been kind of neck deep in it for 5 years, right? But it hasn't really been that long. And we have like 9, 10 production pilots going on around the place. We have the first award that we had, which is very exciting, obviously. And the results we're seeing out of it are like amazing. I mean I don't remember from a technology perspective, I always know when we talk about business cases, you'd always come to the table and you go, so if you do this in 18 months, you can deliver Phase I and got the business signed up for. We can deliver results in 3 months, right, 2 production. I mean one of the last pilots we did in North America.

And I have to be clear, that is the mainframe migration to the cloud.

No, no, sorry. The Generative AI. I kind of flip for a second.

Okay, sorry for a second.

Yes. The Generative AI part of it, like we can deliver business results, right? Not just -- and by the way, it's not just about reducing the standard KPIs like average handling time but it's also improving things like NPS and customer satisfaction. So I think as you rightly summarized at the beginning, as we kind of our customers start to look at what's the next pillar that they want to focus on as we start to look at connectivity or ubiquitous connectivity being a key pillar as they start to say, okay, you know what, we've got all these legacy staff in order to do -- grab some of these new stuff, we need to migrate off it. We feel like we start to have the right pillars again to start being -- we're always are relevant, but just start being at the heart of these discussions.

Yes, you bring up a whole bunch of great points, as always. And maybe just stepping back on the fiber side. I guess the big terms of AT&T this quarter, but many others is convergence, right? But actually, the industry doesn't really have a converged go-to-market yet. I mean AT&T doesn't have one broadband product or brand name, right? And they don't seem to have really converged billing yet or converge customer care. And not to put words in your mouth, but that would seem to be like a requirement if we're going to go to convergence over time. Is that very hard for the industry to do? Is it -- would that be a meaningful project for you guys to do longer term?

Yes, it's very meaningful from the perspective of -- in order to get to any type of true convergence. There's multiple levels if you draw a line, there's multiple levels of convergence, right? Starting from the basic thing that a lot of companies kind of maybe start with, which we call the staple bill, which is essentially just temporary products, adding them together and saying, hey, here's convergence to real true kind of multi convergence where you can provide discounts and bundles and offers and strategic plays. I think when it comes to customers, so that's from the telco lens. But when it comes when you're looking at it from a consumer lens, right, you have some very basic needs, right? Like connect me wherever I am, give me the fastest speed doesn't matter if I'm at home or if I'm traveling or wherever I am, and just give it to me, right? So when I look at the future and when I look at the notion of ubiquitous connectivity, it shouldn't matter to you if I'm on this mobile device or if I'm on a laptop or if I'm streaming Apple TV in my home, just give me the best connectivity in the best form you can at the time. Right? I always go back to like this basic notion. I think you've had me on 8 times, maybe I've shared this 6 times with you. Our kids do not think of LTE, 5G, WiFi, like they're like, am I connected? Or am I not connected? Right? That is the notion I think that is a north stars in industry. We need to focus on a name at because really from a consumer perspective, that is key. Take it upper level, there is still a lot of work to be done at an enterprise level, right? Almost every one of our customers, I would say varies if the consumer side is almost fully automated and fully digital in many of our major customers, the enterprise side is lagging way on the left side, right? And there are demands coming from the enterprise customers because they have this kind of, I call it, the kind of the Sunday, Monday experience, right? They're at home. They're ordering Uber, they're the DoorDashing, is coming in an instant, then they go to work on Monday and they're like, what, I need to wait 72 hours for this, like what's going on, right? Like why is that enterprise experience so different to a consumer digital experience, it's the same human being. So I think there is a lot of work to be done at the enterprise layer to simplify the experience to meet the demand. So the demands are not just connectivity anymore, right? So you take things like cybersecurity, which is at the heart of any connectivity bundled deal or managed services deal that our customers are selling today, right? So whether it's a DMZ or a firewall or we saw the DDoS attack that happened on X the other day, right? I mean all of these things are absolutely paramount and key services our customers can sell. So when you talk of convergence and bundling. It's not just consumer, but we also need to think of how you do it in a better, faster, more digitized way on the enterprise space.

And so I have a daughter working in the CLM industries and says dad you know what that is. No. I'm like now a year ago and contract lifetime management, just trying to automate B2B and use AI, all this stuff. And it's a lot of heavy lifting. I get to hear her. I get to hear her conference calls around the clock. Enterprises definitely want to do it because they see the massive benefits that you can kind of hit there. Have you ever kind of disclosed like what percentage of your business now do you think is a little bit more in the business market side of things. And I think it's probably more like 25%, 30% of our overall communications spending. Have you ever disclosed how meaningful it is now and where it can kind of get to?

Yes. I don't think we've exactly splitted up. By the way, the I think it would be -- I don't want to speak for Tamar but I think difficult in order to do it as well because the systems are supporting both stacks, right? Like so you may have a single stack supporting both kind of B2B. But there is still a lot of work in terms of the customer journey. So your example about kind of lifetime management of a customer, the standard enterprise contract in the U.S. The last time I checked was something like 44 days or something like that, which is crazy, right? That shouldn't be the case. When you can walk into a store when you can walk into a AT&T, T-Mobile store and you can buy 6 lines, walk out of the store in under half an hour, right, like it's instant. So it's an amazing consumer experience. And I think as an industry, we need to do better on the enterprise side. And I think the demand is there, right? By the way, if we, as an industry, don't meet it, there's going to be some other industries that are going to come in and cannibalize some of these enterprise revenue which if you look globally, if you look at the enterprise footprint of our customers, maybe it's been cannibalized, I would say, over the last few years. And it's not being cannibalized because there isn't demand. It's been cannibalized because you have clearly, web-scale guys, start-ups, people coming in and saying, Oh, I can give you SD-WAN, you don't need to buy it from ABC, right? So I think our customers are at the best place suited to kind of reimagine or re-envision what the enterprise space looks like. And we hope one of our key pillars is obviously B2B. We hope that in the next couple of years, this will also be another accelerator for us.

Yes. No, I would think it has to be or to your point, a lot of that is going to go to the hyperscalers. I guess -- and do you guys work with the hyperscalers now much do you guys get?

Yes, yes, absolutely. I mean, actually, just at a meeting with the AWS guys yesterday, I mean, we work with, obviously, and we have our Microsoft partnership just signed a deal with Google, with Globe in the Philippines. So they are very key to us and there isn't any -- I mean, there's no real necessarily any competition or anything like that. I mean we are working hand-in-hand because we want to migrate our customers to the cloud that puts our products on the cloud, our next-generation products. We want our customers to start using them. It's good for the cloud vendors. It's good for our customers. It's good for us. So it's kind of a win-win. So there's no dichotomy there. I think the other -- obviously, the other key players, NVIDIA, which we're working very closely with and many aspects, and they are a major, major player, obviously, in this ecosystem right now.

So when -- just stepping back, if you look at maybe one of your larger customers that's cutting-edge, that's really moving everything to the cloud and trying to automate everything. Can you talk about where they are in that life cycle, how much more do they got to go to improve? And how much better are their operations becoming as they really are trying to do the cutting-edge stuff?

Yes, I would say it -- I would maybe split that question up in kind of 2 components. I would say the first part of it is there are IT workloads that need to move to the cloud and they haven't all moved to the cloud yet. There are data storage, right? So think of all your data lakes and things like that, that can move to the cloud and they haven't moved yet. Then there is network workloads that obviously, they are very cautious on how they move it because latency matters, security matters and that's kind of the core competency, right? So that would kind of be the last pillar and we haven't really fulfilled on any of those yet, right? So all of them are still in various levels of progress depending on which customer. I don't think necessarily any Tier 0, Tier 1 will say, look, everything is running on the cloud today or tomorrow or anything like that. And by the way, I'm not sure that everything will 100% because we also provide services on running various cloud environments on prem for different reasons. So when we talk about cloud, it's not just the public cloud. It could be a private cloud. Obviously, we have relationships with the Red Hat guys like OpenShift and VMware. So we provide solutions. It doesn't matter if it's sovereign data center and things like that, we can also provide kind of cloud solutions on-prem.

And as they move more and more to the cloud, does your percentage of revenues of their spend increase as a percentage, do they have to use you more? And also maybe on a recurring basis, is it more and more outsourcing to you through this process?

Yes. We always try to find a compelling event to have a discussion with our customer about managed services. We feel that we can add the best value when we do it because at the end of the day, we take accountability, right? So you have your products, you have your services, you have your operations and then you take responsibility end-to-end on delivering kind of the results and the KPIs that they believe in. And you've known Amdocs for a while. I think we're one of these companies that take pride in taking the responsibility and accountability we take it, obviously, all our employees take it very personally and we're very proud of what we deliver to our customers. So when this decision comes about moving to the cloud, it gives us this opportunity to have a discussion with them, okay, so you're using our platform. Now you need to run cloud operations. You need to do FinOps because it's a completely different model, right? I always give this example. If you were a developer on-prem and you needed extra petabytes of storage you have to fill in a form, you have to wait, someone needs to ship storage into your data center. It may take 3 months to set it up, get the power get the AC today, you're just going to console, click a button and you're spinning it up, right? With that amazing flexibility also comes this kind of financial impact that suddenly you could go 3 months and you go hang on a second. All these developers are using all of these greater storage areas. So all of FinOps management and operational management become very critical to this space. And because we've invested so much in things like our cloud management operational platform, we feel like it's a great time to have a discussion with our customers about managed services. And so this transformation, we will build it for you. Here's why we can operate it for you and run it for you. And as part of it, we have this added advantage now with our cloud-native platform, we're doing releases product releases are seasonal ones, right? So every quarter, we're bringing them out. So they can take advantage of all the R&D investment we're doing versus previously, they would have to essentially wait for 18 or 24 months until the version came out.

Very, very good. A lot of questions kind of popped into my head there, and I almost don't know where to start. But I guess just on the -- maybe -- have you been winning any new kind of key customers? And I guess maybe just stepping back, what percentage of telcos do you think you serve globally at this stage and if they're not using you, what the hell are they doing? And I'm assuming you can dramatically improve their operations and lower their costs over time by using you. So I guess, why the hell aren't they using you? So I guess a combination of 2. Have you been getting any new -- what percentage of customers do you think you serve globally or telcos you serve?

Yes. Look, I mean, I think if you look at the top 40 customers, which are probably responsible for the majority of Telco revenue in the industry, right? I think we serve pretty much almost all of them. What we are doing, I would say, is obviously, we haven't announced the customer name for the Generative AI deal, but you will see once we announce it, it's a key customer. It's a key region. It's very strategic, and it's about expanding what we have, right? So we announced, obviously, the catalog one at Verizon. We hadn't had anything there for a while. So that was obviously a strategic and key for us. And we need to deliver on the results, deliver it to production, show the value. And hopefully, by that, we will be able to expand our footprint. Now our job in the back end here is to make sure we have valid offerings when they come to the table and say, oh, what about this or what about that? We go, hey, like we have a solution for you, right? So if you look at one of the announcements we had recently was a platform called ConnectX. So Amdocs has always been focused on kind of, I would say, Tier 0, Tier 1, Tier 2. ConnectX is a fully SaaS platform you can onboard pretty much onboard yourself, get yourself up and running very fast. It can be used for MVNOs for digital brands. If you're an influencer, for example, wanting to launch a brand, which we have many conversations happening around the place. They could just come on that and they can customize it, they can make a look anywhere they want and launch the brand very, very fast. I'm trying to remember the number, but we only launched it last year. We already have almost 10 or 11 new logos already signed up on it. Most of them are new. So I would say on the top half of telco customers, we are pretty much everywhere. But we also see an opportunity, I would say, on some of the lower tiers. But even on the high tiers, our big customers want to have an MVNO solution for the long tail, right? So if Oppenheimer wants to launch their MVNO brand, they can come to AT&T we'd like to launch our own MVNO brand for our employees, right? And be able to do it fast and quick and cheap. Because when you think of people like influencers who want to launch a brand, you don't want to make it very cost prohibitive because it may work, it may not work, so you want to try it doesn't work, you move on, it works, catches on, go viral, fantastic. So this we see as a new revenue opportunity. This is a place we see as a new place to target additional customers. By the way, there's also an opportunity to target non-telco customers in that space. We had a discussion, for example, with the digital financial services organization that wanted to target millennials and have an MVNO brand as part of their credit card offering, right? So we see very interesting kind of dynamics in the industry. And the key thing for us is to make sure we're relevant there. Another quick example is kind of our market one platform. Which basically brings hundreds of digital services, one integration point and the telco can basically launch all of these digital services to their customers. Right? Because now you have this subscription fatigue, right? Even myself, by the way, my digital bill is way too big. But I have them on 6 different credit cards on PayPal, on Apple Pay. I mean, I'm like, Oh my gosh, like I'm almost embarrassed to say this, but one time I signed up for the same service twice, right, without realizing it.

I think we all have because I have a wife and children [indiscernible]

Exactly. Exactly. So exactly what happened to us, and it took us almost a year to realize that we had 2 accounts on the same service, and we were paying for it. And so being able to have everything in one place, I think we have a solution for this, right? Our market one platform and several of our customers, if you go back every quarter, we announce a customer who's taking it and this is growing. So I think in addition to all of those Tier 0, Tier 1, Tier 2 offerings that we have to our customers, we're also looking at what are the things that can help our customers think of new revenue ideas on new launch pads in order to kind of grow their revenue outside kind of the traditional mode and also go down to maybe some of the lower tiers and have solutions for them.

So Anthony, one criticism, I guess, I mean, I think you guys your cloud offering and your Gen AI offering, you should be able to substantially improve the telcos operations. You should be able to lower their costs, and you should be able to drive incremental revenue for them versus what they can do internally. And I guess, I don't know if I hear that enough from you guys, like, you know what kind of like because that's what the telcos care about, right? They're star for revenue growth. They're star for free cash flow. You guys are one of the avenues that we can improve your free cash flow growth, guys. Done it over a year, we can do it here.

I don't want to sound like a little frustrating here, but I don't remember in my 25 years of working in the company, solution we've had on the board where we can have in production in less than 3 months, and I can impact your 3 major KPIs average handle time, first call resolution and increase your transactional NPS, right? And I'm not talking by 5%. I'm talking material impact, right? And don't trust us, don't look at like forget about slides, like we will have the system in production for you. And by the way, it can run on a on top of an Amdocs BSS system or a non-Amdocs BSS system, we don't necessarily care. And it's kind of Generative AI native right? So this competes -- this can -- if there are new players that come into the market, it can compete head-to-head with them, right? Because in a way, like we're almost disrupting ourselves in some of these elements. Right? And something that can deliver business results like that so fast, I haven't seen in my career in the telecommunications industry, right? So our message to our customers and right now, I can't remember one week, I haven't traveled because I'm talking to all of our customers about this. And they're trying to figure out how they incorporate it because it's also an organizational change management aspect of it, right? It's how do I introduce this technology. And by the way, we also try to have a little bit of a layer. Now we can expose this directly to consumers but most of our customers are like, okay, let's expose this to our agents and our agents will feed the information to our customer just so we have like a safety check, which I understand. But even with that, the fact that all of a sudden, we can take an agent and make them a super agent, right, like that's our claim to fame. And this is why we're kind of excited about it. We have a whole bunch of pilots. And hopefully, we have more of our customers taking this stuff on. The other -- so that's all about efficiency.

And so Anthony, if we're setting -- I mean, so it sounds like you could see the industry hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Is that fair?

Yes. Look, I think if you look at the -- all of the call centers that our customers run, someone told me, I think it might have been in one of your conferences, one of our investors told me that telcos make up something like 20% of all kind of call center volume, I don't know if that's true or not. But it's probably not small, right? We can assume it's not small. And the fact that we can get double-digit savings. I mean we're talking -- just to give you a simple practical benchmark, we're talking about someone calling in about something. In this case, it was a bill query, which, on average, takes 12 to 14 minutes to handle. It's handled in 2 minutes and not only higher first call resolution, it's higher NPS as well. Right? So the last -- like tell me the last time a customer called and complained to you that they were unhappy and they walk away with a higher NPS score, right? Like that doesn't happen.

I'm sure the industry is spending tens of billions of dollars on CX, right? And if you can prove that by 20%, 30%, you're talking billions and billions of dollars.

Yes. And part of the -- I think part of the problem here is there's a lot of noise, right? There like everyone, I mean, you can imagine, everybody is waving their hands in air. I don't think there's any investor call or earnings call or anything like that, that people are saying, Hey, I'm doing Gen AI, I am doing Gen AI, right? And this is -- and our customers are doing the right thing. They're like, hey, like can we run a pilot, right? And they're running. By the way, they're running pilots in production. It's not even a test pilot, right?

do you have the same -- I mean, I follow other contact center company. They say for digital interactivity for every dollar an enterprise of spending with them. Like someone like a night or and there's plenty of them out there. They save the customers $5. Like literally, they can measure this stuff like perfectly. I mean do you.

Yes, look, just do the calculation, right? So do the calculation of an average handling time of 14 minutes, still having an agent in the middle. So we're not getting rid of which we can, but we -- let's say, for safety, right now, we've been cautious and we're not. That 14 minutes reduces to 2 minutes. Right? So you can just do the math there overall, what you could say. And then you add on top of that the fact that you also increase NPS, you have both quantitative and qualitative and you have first call resolution where half of them never increases by 50% and half of them never call back at all. And so I think I mean the data is there. And if you don't believe the data on other pilots, do it yourself. Now I think the added advantage of Amdocs different to the traditional people that are just doing we can also orchestrate the journey entirely through the system, right? So if you, yes, end-to-end, right? So for example, if someone is calling in, we can actually give them a prompt or a button to say, hey, I would like this and then change their plan, adjust their proration, figure out their early termination, all at the same time and execute it in one transaction. So we're not just someone needs to copy tax, type it in another box, move it to another one. Oh, this is what it said. Because that becomes swivel-chair again and gets very tiring very quickly, right? Like you fulfill the entire transaction in 1 place. and you can do it in natural language. That's the difference, I think, with us.

And do you have that capability now?

Absolutely. Absolutely in production.

And how much of an improvement is this versus what they were doing before, that end-to-end capability. Like so the contact center basically agent can basically almost look like a service alignment, I mean, of the old days, right, where they don't have to go out to your house and connect the wire and turn up the sign equipment.

Yes, one of the anecdotes kind of I heard was you can imagine the tenure of call center employees, there's a high turnover. You need to invest a lot in training right? You need to teach them a system. Every release you pulled out, you need to say, well, there's this screen and then there's this screen? Or there's this dropdown? And this is how you do it. And now they're just sitting there, right, like just natural text, natural English, translating. And by the way, we're doing a pilot also in a Spanish-speaking country, and we have no issue with the language either, by the way. So that translation is also amazing that we can take it to customers, not just English-speaking customers. And the fact that you can reduce training, you can take a new agent and make them like a super agent that has had 5 years' experience. Think about it, right? If you're an agent, you think about all the offers, the promotions or the policies and procedures that someone needs to have in their brain. There is no way, right? Like a person that's been trained in 2 weeks is going to know this stuff. So they're going to revert through the 3 things that they know, the true offers that they heard about, and they're going to just do the same thing. And the fact that suddenly you unlock all of these should be a revenue potential. And one of the other -- our selling smart agent allows you to have conversational selling, right, which means you're calling it for a complaint it analyzes it and looks at the plan you have, it looks like what you've done in the past. And it says, based on all of this, here are some of the other things that you can do if you want it, we can activate it by one click of the button. Right? So this is, I think, where Amdocs brings value to the table. And of course, look, I don't blame our customers as well. I think we are in that -- I think Gartner said we're kind of like entering into the trough of dissolution, right? Because everyone's like, Gen AI and people like, okay, fine, like show me the results. And the good thing is we can show you the results. And if you don't believe the results we're showing you, we can get it into production in 3 months. And then you can experience the results firsthand. So I think that's the exciting thing for the industry.

So Anthony, in 3 months, I'm going to have another chat with you going into more details about AI. I know we could have used up this entire time period about what you've done. But can you just give us some -- an elevator pitch of how you've been able to say? Is it that you have great data, great operating support system. Just any color around what you're doing in AI?

Yes. So I think, first of all, it starts with the industry experience, right? So we have solution books that understands entire customer journeys of enterprise or B2B customers or what happens with all of the data. Then it's a fact that we understand all the plumbing, right, all the interfaces where the data comes from, what is more accurate, what is the customer record. That allows us -- right now, we're getting higher than 96% accuracy. I don't think, by the way, if you compare that accuracy with the human giving answers, I don't think you can achieve 96% accuracy with the human because they made mistakes, right? And you can offer the end result, right? So end-to-end like there's no downside. Like if someone -- I would love a customer to give me a downside, right? I haven't heard why you wouldn't do it. Other than the traditional stuff, right, which I know we have to deal with such as org management set as rethinking such as -- it's like you need to take your workforce and turn it upside down in a way. Right. Even if you look at the way Amdocs kind of started almost 2 years ago kind of building this, we created a completely separate team right? We segmented and we just gave them a blank page and we said, here's what -- here's the vision, here's where you want to go. And in a way, from an organizational perspective on the telco side, that's almost what you need to do. You need to say, okay, let me reimagine what the customer care experience looks like versus -- can I think around the edges and do these.

Will this accelerate their migration to the cloud or using some of your other products? Or more of your catalog. Will this accelerate buying all your products, do you think?

Yes. So our MES platform is cloud native, built on the cloud, right? So by default accelerates, it migrates, moves everything to the cloud. And as you start to think about it and you start to look at some of the plumbing implications of where the data is coming from, where the data is going to, there is an opportunity to also migrate all your data lakes, your reference lakes and things like that to the cloud. So obviously, for us, it's a little bit of a self-serving comment, obviously, but there is a lot of pull-through potential that exists as well in this scenario.

Well, it sounds like a really, really exciting time, and I think we're going to -- I think you and I have another chat in 3 months. So I appreciate it. We'll go through a lot of time.

We should have a celebration.

Yes. Absolutely. And you'll be able to give us a lot more detail and update on what -- kind of what's going on. But thank you, Anthony. Thank you, Matt.

Thank you for having me.

Let me thank Anthony again. Take care. Thank you very much.

Thanks, Tim.