Amundi S.A. (AMUN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning. I'm Cyril Meilland, the Head of Investor Relations of Amundi, and it's a gorgeous day today. First, it's my birthday. So -- but I won't tell you how much of a senile old timer I am. But more importantly, it's -- we're here to present the 9 months and Q3 results for Amundi, and I'm here with Nicolas Calcoen, our Deputy CEO; and Aurelia Lecourtier, our CFO. We'll go through, as usual, the presentation of about 20, 25 minutes and then open for Q&A. As usual, this is a video conference. [Operator Instructions] And sorry, but again, before we get started, we need to go through a short disclaimer. Throughout the presentation, we will make a number of forward-looking statements and mention forecasts. We call your attention to the fact that Amundi's actual results may differ from these statements. Some of the factors that may cause the results to differ materially are listed on our universal registration document. Amundi assumes no duty and does not undertake to update any forward-looking statements. And now I leave the floor to Nicolas.

Thank you, Cyril, and happy birthday, and good morning to all of you, and thank you for your participation in this conference to present our third quarter results. As usual, I will start this presentation with the main highlights, and then I will hand over to Aurelia, who will comment on the financial part more thoroughly before we answer your questions. First of all, I would like to highlight a few key points of this results. I will start with the strong inflows since the beginning of the year and in the third quarter. Over the first 9 months, we have gathered EUR 67 billion in net new money to manage, of which more than EUR 15 billion in the third quarter. This comes mainly from medium- to long-term assets, which are positive in both active and passive, and from retail as well as institutional investors and our Asian JVs. As of end of September, Amundi's assets under management reached a new all-time high of close to EUR 2.32 trillion. They rose by close to 4% since the beginning of this year despite the headwinds from a weaker U.S. dollar and Indian rupee. The financial performance resulting from this business activity is healthy. Our pre-tax income rose by 4% year-on-year to EUR 445 million in the third quarter. This growth originates from business-related revenues, namely management fees on technology. Our costs remain under control. Furthermore, Q3 was the first quarter where the contribution from Victory Capital started reflecting the synergies from the deal. Finally, we saw further success in our strategic pillars. In the first 9 months of 2025, all three main growth engines gathered more than EUR 20 billion in net new assets. Third-party distribution first collected EUR 21 billion, mainly in medium- to long-term assets. Inflows were driven by ETF and positive in active management with a high level of activity in most countries and regions. Our partnership with Standard Chartered, for example, amplified its success and exceeded EUR 3 billion in assets under management. The strong commercial momentum with digital platform is accelerating, and a new long-term partnership has been signed with the South African digital platform, Satrix, resulting in strong inflows of EUR 1 billion in the quarter. In Asia, inflows over 9 months reached EUR 29 billion, of which EUR 19 billion from the joint ventures and EUR 10 billion from direct distribution. All countries in Asia contributed to these inflows, which is -- which are also well diversified by strategies across active management and passive management as well as treasury products. ETFs collected EUR 28 billion over 9 months to total assets that exceed now EUR 300 billion for the first time. Amundi confirmed its second place in the European ETF market in terms of assets under management as well as inflows. In the third quarter, two flagship products tracking major indices gathered the largest inflows, respectively, in European and in U.S. equities. First, the Core Stoxx Europe 600 ETF reached EUR 14 billion in assets under management, making it the largest ETF in European equities and the core S&P 500 swap collected over EUR 2 billion. Furthermore, we continue to innovate and new products were launched such as the S&P 400 U.S. mid-cap ETF or the Euro high yield ETF. Finally, Amundi Technology continued to record strong revenue growth at EUR 81 million, approximately the same level as for the full year 2024. It was generated by half -- it's an increase by half compared to the same period of 2024, thanks to strong organic growth and the integration of aixigo. Beyond strategic priorities, Amundi is achieving commercial success in its core business. And today, we would like this quarter to put the spotlight on a business where Amundi is an undisputed #1, the management of employee savings schemes. Our dedicated business line, employee and retirement savings saw record inflows over 9 months with nearly EUR 4 billion since the beginning of the year. Today, we manage EUR 101 billion in assets with a market share in France of 45%. It services more than 12,000 corporate clients, multinationals and medium-sized companies directly, but also small companies via the networks of Crédit Agricole and other partners. This business in fact that Amundi is the only business where we have a direct access to the end client. Our service to the 4 million employee clients is comprehensive from client servicing via telephone, mailbot, digital tools, including a transactional website and smartphone app to a robo advisor and glidepaths. We offer the full range of investment capabilities from employee share ownership to funds and individual pension schemes. This retirement product, in particular, are developed in partnership with Crédit Agricole Assurance. As you can see, all these initiatives are creating a lot of value for our clients and position us well in the retirement business in France. I thank you for your attention, and now I leave the floor to Aurelia for the details of our financial results.

Thank you, Nicolas, and good morning, everyone. I will now comment as usual on our activity and financial results. Starting with our AUM, they reached EUR 2.32 trillion at the end of September, which is again a new record for Amundi. They were up over 9 months, thanks to healthy net flows at EUR 67 billion over the period, a positive market effect of more than EUR 100 billion, but that was partially offset by a negative currency effect of EUR 87 billion due to the depreciation of USD and Indian rupee. Year-to-date, indeed, both currencies are sharply down versus the euro, minus 11% for the U.S. dollar and minus 15% for the Indian rupee. As a result of these various trends, our AUM increased by 3.5% since the beginning of the year and by more than 2% in this third quarter. Moving now to our net inflows. Amundi's net inflows amounted EUR 67 billion over the first 9 months with MLT net inflows totaling EUR 57 billion and a strong contribution from passive management and ETF at EUR 28 billion, as commented by Nicolas. This business line passed the EUR 300 billion milestone at the end of September, which is a very positive achievement. Flows were also driven by active management at EUR 8 billion [Audio Gap] decided to re-internalize the management of a EUR 9 billion bond mandate. So restated from this exit, net inflows into MLT assets would have been at EUR 18 billion, balanced between EUR 10 billion in passive and EUR 8 billion in active. As in the previous quarter, our investment management teams delivered sustained performances in Q3. Close to 3/4 of our open-ended funds were in the first and second quartile, slightly up from the previous quarter. 242 Amundi funds are rated 4 or 5 stars by Morningstar and 82% of our AUM outperformed their benchmark over 5 years. Let me add a bit of color to this performance because this quarter, our fixed income flagship have done pretty good, such as global aggregate, corporate and European aggregate, and investment-grade credit strategies. They rank among the top of their peers. Our multi-asset strategies also posted very robust performances as our emerging market strategies that performed well across both equity and fixed income. Beyond these highlights, the main message from this slide, as you can see, remains sustained consistency at a high level of investment performance. Looking now at our client segment and starting with retail. So retail flows were positive at EUR 15 billion over the 9 months. They remain driven by third-party distributor, which posted healthy inflows of EUR 21 billion year-to-date, of which EUR 18 billion in ETF and positive flows in active and treasury products. Flows were also very diversified by regions with a high level of activity in Europe, namely in Germany, U.K., Netherlands, but also Spain and Italy. Asia continued its momentum with EUR 4 billion of net inflows, and we gathered strong flows from high potential regions like the Middle East. We also signed, as Nicolas mentioned, a new long-term partnership in South Africa with the digital wealth platform, Satrix, resulting in a flow of EUR 1 billion ETF. In China, our JV with Bank of China also enjoy a strong commercial momentum with EUR 1.6 billion gathered year-to-date. If we turn now to our international partner networks, the outflows totaled EUR 4 billion in the last quarter and EUR 10 billion over the first 9 months. As you know, UniCredit is by far the largest of these networks and the outflows originate from this group. As you know as well, UniCredit wants to develop their internal multi-manager platform, which explains the outflows. As many of you have asked, let me give you a few details about what UniCredit represents. At the end of September, UniCredit Networks represented a total of EUR 88 billion in assets under management for Amundi, which is approximately 4% of our total AUM. AUM are mostly, as you know, invested in active management. So you should assume that the revenue margin is above our average retail margin and around 40 bps. And finally, to end on the retail segment, partner networks in France are showing positive net inflows, particularly in the third quarter with a EUR 2.6 billion inflow. If we now move to Institutional segment, net inflows were EUR 35 billion year-to-date with a sharp contrast between strong inflows into MLT that gathered EUR 46 billion and outflows from treasury products. As Nicolas already mentioned, employee savings and retirement expertise posted very strong inflows of EUR 4 billion over the period. In the third quarter, if we restate from the exit of the EUR 9 billion bond mandate I already mentioned, the MLT assets gathered EUR 11 billion with a positive contribution from all segments. And it is worth noting as well that our mandate with Crédit Agricole and Société Générale insurers have collected strong inflows since the beginning of the year, including EUR 4 billion in the third quarter, thanks to renewed interest in euro contracts. Finally, our Asian joint venture posted net inflows of EUR 18 billion over the first 9 months with good performances in all countries. South Korea posted EUR 7 billion mostly in MLT assets, and China continued its recovery at EUR 3 billion, excluding the discontinued channel business. Coming to our Indian JV, inflows -- we had healthy inflows into saving plans that continued. However, the JV faced the impact of lower currency, high market volatility, and uncertain monetary policy, which all triggered a wait-and-see attitude from clients. But despite these headwinds, the JV gathered EUR 9 billion year-to-date and EUR 2 billion for the Q3. As we have already highlighted many times on these calls, the expected partial exit from a big mandate with the Indian pension fund, EPFO, will now move forward. The outflow, as we already said, is likely to be between EUR 30 billion and EUR 40 billion and is expected to take place in Q4, but with no material impact on our net income. And finally, the U.S. distribution of Victory Capital posted smaller outflows around EUR 600 million for a share of 26%. But this is more than offset by the net inflows coming from the sales of Victory strategies to non-U.S. clients, which are booked in our retail and institutional segments. Turning now to our results. So let me remind you of the pro forma restatements we have implemented since the closure of Victory in Q2. So to make comparison easier with 2025, as you know, we have restated the 2024 period. So Amundi U.S. is not included in the revenues and costs of the '24 period, and its contribution is equity accounted as for the contribution of Victory. So with that in mind, let's move now to our Q3 results on the next slide. Starting with the revenues. So our total revenues in the third quarter amounted to EUR 815 million, up by 5%, thanks to healthy growth in business-related revenues. Net management fees were up 3% compared to the same quarter last year, thanks to a strong asset gathering in the past 12 months and despite the drop in the U.S. dollar. Our technology revenues were also up by 49% at EUR 29 million, thanks to both a healthy organic growth and thanks to the contribution from aixigo. Performance fees were also up year-on-year, thanks to the good performances I detailed earlier. And finally, our financial income is in line with the decrease in euro short-term rates. If we turn now to the cost, so as you know, every year, Amundi offers to its employees the possibility to invest in new shares issued at a discount. We call this operation, WeShare. And this discount results in a charge in our P&L of EUR 17 million that will be accounted in Q3. Last year, this charge was booked in Q4, and therefore, the charge we booked in Q3 this year is distorting the comparison with Q3 '24. So restating for this impact, our cost would have been up by 4%, reflecting the integration of aixigo and our investment to nurture our future growth. It also reflects our best-in-class cost efficiency with an adjusted cost/income ratio at 53.5%. This quarter, we also implemented our optimization plan that resulted in, first, the merger of Amundi affiliates CPR and BFT in France, which is effective since October 1; and second, the reorganization of our multi-asset teams across all Europe, which is underway. The restructuring costs of this plan are booked in this Q3 for an amount of EUR 80 million, and they are excluded from our adjusted P&L. Therefore, they do not contribute to the cost evolution of the quarter. As a reminder, the aim of the plan is to generate EUR 40 million in savings from '26 to be reinvested in our growth business. Finally, our adjusted profit before tax was up 4%, as you can see on the slide, at EUR 450 million. Let me take you through the key drivers of this growth. So first, the contribution of our Asian JVs was up 3%, with China and Korea posting very strong growth in their contribution. And the contribution from SBIMF that suffered headwinds from the drop of the Indian rupee remains still healthy with management fees growing more than 20% year-on-year in the JV in local currency. The equity accounted contribution from our U.S. operation was at EUR 33 million over the quarter. As a result, as you know, of the lag by 1 quarter in the recognition of Victory's results, Q3 contribution includes the first synergies from the partnership. And this contribution also benefited from the adjustment of EUR 4 million between the estimate used in Q2 and the publication of Victory's Q2 results. So all in all, the adjusted net income of Amundi was at EUR 340 million, including the tax surcharge over the quarter of EUR 9 million. Let's have now a final look on our financial performance year-to-date. So first, our adjusted revenues reached EUR 2.5 billion. They were up 5% and driven by net management -- sorry, net management fees up 4% and technology revenues at EUR 81 million, an increase of almost half. Performance fees were also up 7% year-on-year. Second, this revenue growth, as you can see, was complemented by our operational efficiency with an adjusted cost/income ratio at 52.8% over the period. Expenses were up 5% if we restate from the employee scheme charge, as I explained earlier, and they are in line with the gross revenue. Third, the contribution from our Asian JV was almost EUR 100 million, up 6% and the contribution from Victory Capital up by 8%. All this translates into the growth of 4% of our adjusted pre-tax income that reached EUR 1.340 billion. Excluding the tax surcharge in France that totaled EUR 63 million for the 9 months, our adjusted net income would have been over EUR 1 billion, up 4% versus '24. I will now hand back to Nicolas for concluding remarks before we take your questions, and I thank you very much for your attention.

Thank you, Aurelia. To conclude, as you can see from our business and financial results, Amundi continues to accelerate alongside its strategic pillars. 80% of the net inflows over the first 9 months of this year, meaning EUR 55 billion out of the total of EUR 67 billion comes from the strategic pillars, third-party distribution, Asia, or ETF. Net inflows from these strategic pillars already exceed the full year 2024 total net inflows. We are now reaching the end of our Ambition 2025 medium-term plan, and we can confidently look forward to the presentation of our next plan. In this perspective, let me complement what Aurelia told you about our distribution agreement with UniCredit. As you know, this agreement comes for renewal in July 2027, and we do not know whether it will be renewed or under what conditions. We are, of course, fully committed to continue serving UniCredit's clients with the highest standards, and we stand ready to remain a partner for UniCredit and to create value for all parties beyond 2027. Our new strategic plan for 2028 will include a financial trajectory that will reflect this uncertainty regarding the contribution from UniCredit from '27 onwards as well as, of course, Amundi's healthy growth in all its strategic pillars. So we look forward to our Capital Market Day on November 18 to present all the ambitious growth initiatives that will underpin our future growth. We are now with Aurelia, at your disposal to answer your questions. Thank you.

Thank you Nicolas. Thank you, Aurelia. So now we are moving to the Q&A session, as Nicolas said. And we will start with a question from Hubert from Bank of America.

I've got three of them. Firstly, on UniCredit. So you talked about accounting for the UniCredit uncertainty in your strategic plan. Just wondering what are the different ways you can reflect this in the plan, just given the uncertainty and the exposure that you -- the significant exposure that you have in it and the potential impact that it can bring if the contract wasn't renewed. That's the first question. Second question is on taxes. There's now likely going to be further tax surcharge in France in 2026. So any guidance you can have for us for this for next year? And lastly, on the French networks, it's good to see the medium long-term assets turning positive this quarter. Do you see this as a turning point? And also, like can you please give us also the breakdown of the medium long-term assets? Is it coming from structured products or passives or anything else?

Thank you. I will answer your first question and maybe let Aurelia answer the two other ones. So your first question was about UniCredit and how to take into account it in our medium-term plan. As we explained, there's a lot of uncertainty around the future of this relationship, even if we hope and we are convinced that we can bring -- continue to bring value to UniCredit. So the way we would look at -- but really, it's an uncertainty because we know that in Italy, asset turnover can be very high as it is illustrated by the rapid deployment of one market. And we do estimate that in an unfavorable scenario, the largest part of our assets could exit within 2 years. But as we said, we don't know if the partnership will be renewed or under what conditions. So what we will do is to commit to targets that will be achieved whatever UniCredit decision is about the future of this partnership.

Coming now to your question on the surcharge. As a reminder, we foresee an impact this year of the surcharge of about EUR 72 million. As noticed, indeed, in the budget proposal for '26, actually, the government proposed -- the French government proposed to renew partially this surcharge. But I would say no guidance at the moment as it is far too early to draw a conclusion as the budget is still under discussion. And coming to the French network and your question, actually, yes, genuine inflows from our French network in the quarter, EUR 2.6 billion overall, of which EUR 1.8 billion coming from money markets and EUR 0.6 billion in MLT, driven by passive, active and also positive in real assets. So basically, it is a good and positive development, but maybe a bit too early to call for the end of risk aversion in our French networks.

The next question comes from Arnaud from BNP Paribas.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

I'm just wondering, since we're talking about the networks, could we go to the Société Générale networks? I think they're up for renewal pretty soon. Is there anything you can update us there? My second question is on ELTIFs. This has been live. There's been some traction in the market. I'm just wondering what that looks like for you in terms of AUM and flows. And thirdly, you talked at the beginning of your presentation about having a B2B2C connection to 4 million end clients. I'm just wondering if there isn't an opportunity for you to be upselling those clients. I mean, a lot of DC pension funds in the U.K., for example, do reach out to clients and actually consolidate various pension funds or other products they may have. I'm just wondering if there's not a longer-term opportunity for you to leverage the access you have to those 4 million clients.

Thank you. I will take your questions. First question was on Société Générale. Indeed, a long-standing partnership for Amundi, a partnership that date from 15 years now, renewed several times. The existing agreement is coming to maturity in a few weeks. It's too early to talk about the future, but what I can say is that I'm confident that we will continue to work with Société Générale in the future. Your second question was about ELTIFs, if I got it right. Indeed, it's an interesting development, an opportunity to create new funds and to give access to wealth -- retail clients, I would say, wealthy clients to private markets. We have launched several of ELTIFs during the course of the year. To be honest, I don't remember exactly where we stand in terms of inflows, but it's the beginning. It's, I would say, a starting point, and we expect to see progressively more inflows going to this kind of products. And we think this regulatory evolution is something positive for retail clients, first of all, and for ourselves. And your third question was back to employee and savings scheme, and retirement scheme in France, where we do have really a B2B2C relationship. We have a direct access to the clients. So indeed, this particularity in our business is really a big opportunity, first of all, to -- I would say, to learn how to talk directly to the end clients more and more, and to also experiment and promote offers to our clients. So that's something we are doing. But of course, as the end client who are the employees of the companies in which they work, we are bound by the contract that we have with the employers. But within the limit of the employer, it's indeed a good way to experiment and promote new approaches to give advice and to promote new solutions.

The next question will come from Sharath from Deutsche Bank.

I have three. Firstly, on India, the inflow seems to have dropped about 50% if I compare it on a year-to-date basis. So can you tell me the drivers? And how does this compare with peers? I know there are a lot of new entrants in the India mutual market space. Can you comment if you're losing market share? And sticking with India, can you tell us any reasons that you are aware of for the SBI management not being very keen to reconsider listing plans? So that's the first one on India. Second is on alternatives. Other than real estate, I don't necessarily see alternatives being a key focus area for you. So can we expect this to continue? And how do you view the recent surge in partnerships between traditional and alternative asset managers and your willingness to follow a similar path? And lastly, a follow-up on the UniCredit relationship. Thanks for sharing more details on the AUM. But can you give us an indication of the bottom line contribution? Did I hear correctly when you said the revenue margin is around 40 basis points?

I propose Aurelia, you answer on the Indian questions, and I will follow up with the other ones.

Yes. So as mentioned in my speech, thank you for the question. We -- I mean, see that the Indian market is facing, I would say, many evolution. I mentioned the currency impact. I mentioned also a bit of volatility in the market and elements also on the monetary policy, which led to, I would say, a kind of risk aversion from the clients in the Indian market. Nevertheless, first, as you asked, our market share is stable and above 15% over the 9 months. Second, we nevertheless, also gathered genuine inflows, almost EUR 9 billion since the beginning of the year. And when we look at, I would say, the JV activity and financial results, we can still see a very dynamic growth of the net management fees of the JV, more than 20% in local currency, obviously. So all in all, we keep very confident in this major growth driver for Amundi in the coming months and quarters.

As far as your question -- second question, there was a question on EPFO.

EPFO, I think.

Yes. EPFO, yes, as mentioned, we think that the outflows may come -- may happen in Q4. As you know, there has been a first RFP launched in the beginning of the year that was unsuccessful. The Indian authority relaunched another RFP that seems to be at that time successful. So as we said, the -- I would say, the rotation and reallocation from two -- three or four asset manager on this huge mandate of more than EUR 100 billion will take place in Q4 with two consequences. First, outflows, as I mentioned, for SBI MF, something about EUR 30 billion to EUR 40 billion, but very limited and insignificant impact on, obviously, net management fees for SBI FM and as a result, our -- on the result of the JV in our P&L.

Regarding your next question, which was about alternatives, I would say that private assets are a priority in terms of development for Amundi. We -- that's why we, for example, made the acquisition of Alpha Associates 1 year ago, and we count on this new acquisition to allow us to develop in this field. That's true that over the recent years, inflows have been limited because historically, the largest part of our business was on real estate. And as you know, real estate has been suffering a lot over the recent period. But on other private assets, we are developing and we can continue to develop. And for example, as mentioned earlier, to take advantage of the new regulatory opportunities and the appetite and the interest from retail clients to allocate part of their savings, at least in long-term savings in real assets. Your last question was about the contribution to UniCredit in our P&L. You -- I would say you have the assets under management, EUR 88 billion at the end of September, you have the margin, so you can calculate the revenues. As far as the bottom line, the only thing I can say is that, as you know, Amundi is a global company. It's a very integrated model and therefore, costs are managed globally. So there are no direct or very limited costs that are directly allocated to UniCredit. What we do is to manage cost globally, trying to adjust them to the evolution of our revenues and at the same time to continue to invest in our future growth drivers.

The next question will come from the line of Angeliki from JPMorgan.

Just three from my end as well, please. First of all, with regards to the EUR 40 million of cost savings that you have given us as an indication on the back of these actions that you have taken and you have booked some restructuring costs this quarter starting from next year, in which areas are you looking to reinvest this EUR 40 million of cost savings next year more concretely? And could there be related to your answer that you gave before with regards to the UniCredit distribution agreement? I mean, if we take the worst-case scenario of losing this partnership, what is the leeway that you have to potentially reduce costs elsewhere in order to maintain the cost-income ratio below 53%? Second question with regards to management fees. I noticed that the management fee margin actually improved a little bit quarter-on-quarter, at least on my numbers. What is the outlook for the management fee margin as you see it taking into account the asset mix for Q4 and potentially also for next year? Are you seeing some competition perhaps also within the same asset classes with the introduction of new products that you're launching? Or is that really not the case? And third question, I was just wondering if you can provide an update with regards to any potential special distribution of excess capital. Is that now more likely to happen next year as we get closer to year-end and we don't have any further M&A announcements coming from you?

Thank you, Angeliki. I will take your first and the last question and maybe let Aurelia answer on the management fees and the margins. So first of all, on the cost savings, the question was about where do we invest. Basically, it's in all our strategic priorities and areas of growth, whether you're talking about technology, development in Asia, ETF. But of course, we have -- we are meeting you in a few weeks to talk about our next strategic plan, and it will be a good opportunity to develop a little bit further our future areas of growth. As far as, again, UniCredit and the adjustment of cost, just I can repeat what I say. We -- again, we have an integrated model. So we manage costs globally and not directly. And again, the costs that are associated specifically to one client are limited. But we look at it very -- and look at cost management very globally to ensure that we adjust costs when we see revenues moving and we preserve our capacity to invest in our growth drivers. And maybe before leaving the floor to Aurelia on management fees, regarding distribution, we are not yet at the end of our '22-'25 plan. So again, we can discuss a little bit more our intention in a few weeks during our medium-term plan. Keeping in mind that, first of all, our priorities in terms of capital allocation remain if we find value-creating opportunity to do M&A or otherwise to return the excess capital to our shareholders.

And yes, coming to your question on management fees, so they were quite dynamic since the beginning of the year at 4% increase compared to last year. When we -- coming to our margins, as you know, we don't steer properly our margin, and we are quite product agnostic. And what we can say and what we've tried to enlight in our Q2 financial communication is that we observed that there's obviously a rising pressure in the whole industry on margin due to, I would say, client demand towards passive fixed income and also, as far as we are concerned, this year, a very good success in the institutional space, leading to, I would say, low-margin mandates. In addition to that, as you know, recorded an idiosyncratic effect due to the deconsolidation of Amundi U.S. So what we can say about our margin is that what we disclosed at the end of H1, which was more or less something like 16 bps is a good starting point for obviously, the 9 months and onwards. But obviously, this is a starting point that we reassess when -- due to -- in respect to the flows and to what we collect -- we will collect over the next quarter.

Next question from Mike Werner from UBS. We can't hear you, Mike. I don't know whether -- it seems good now. No, still not. Sorry.

We can't hear you.

We can't hear you, but apparently, it's not at our end. Mic is definitely open at end. Try again. No, still not.

Any luck. Sorry...