Andritz AG (ANDR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Dear ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the conference call of ANDRITZ AG. At our customer's request, this conference will be recorded. [Operator Instructions] After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. [Operator Instructions] May I now hand you over to Dr. Leitner, who will lead you through this conference. Please go ahead, sir.

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to our conference call for the full year results 2021. I hope all of you are healthy and safe. Maybe the priority is gradually shifting from healthy to safe, but let's hope that this gets under control. As usual, I would like to start with some short general remarks about our performance in 2021. We think it has been a very successful year for us for ANDRITZ despite all the challenges surrounding all of us. We achieved record figures in order intake, in operating profit, in profitability and in net income. Order intake reached a record high of almost EUR 7.9 billion. All business areas recorded increases in order intake and secured important reference orders, showing our strong competitive position in all our industries. Also worth mentioning, group order backlog reached a record high, providing a very good workload for 2022 in maybe somewhat more difficult times. Our group revenue was slightly down compared to the record figure we had in 2020. We achieved record highs for EBITA and profitability. Pulp & Paper and Separation continued to show excellent operational performance. Hydro managed to keep its solid profitability. And last but not least, Metals, especially Schuler, showed very good progress, achieving a turnaround and hopefully continue into progress towards good profitability. On the financial side, we ended the year with a high net liquidity of around EUR 700 million, with free cash flow reaching almost EUR 370 million. Due to this good operational performance and our solid financial position, we will propose a dividend payment of EUR 1.65 per share, which is also the highest dividend payment so far and equals the promised at least 50% payout. So far my introductory remarks. And if you allow me, I will take you through the presentation. On Slide 3, again, a summary of the key facts. We start on left side. Group revenues, slightly down compared to the record figure of 2020 mostly because of Pulp & Paper Capital since some very large projects have approached completion, and therefore, revenues have been lower. Revenue in Metals is also down due to lower order intake in 2020. Hydro and Separation is slightly up. In the middle, record group order intake at almost EUR 7.9 billion, highest ever. Very favorable development across all our business areas. I will take you through the details in a minute. And on the right side, EBITA, EUR 547 million; margin -- EBITA margin at 8.5%, both record high levels. Again, solid development across all 4 business areas. Obviously, Metals, we are satisfied with the progress towards a very good profitability, but they are not yet there. And -- but the rest is clearly positive. In some more detail, order intake, Slide 5, up 29% to nearly EUR 7.9 billion. You may think it's easy to achieve a good increase compared to the difficult year 2020. But if we compare it to the order intake in 2019, which in 2019 has been the highest ever, we still have an increase of about 8% or 9% compared to this former record order intake. In the middle, you see good news on all 4 business areas. On the regional side, developed markets, Europe, North America, 54% of order intake; emerging markets, 46%. Quite stable ratio. Typically, we are in this more or less 50-50 ratio between developed markets and developing growth markets. On the next page, the quarterly development. Now obviously, we had a record order intake in Q4. Let me state here already that this record order intake did not [ account ] because we were squeezing everything into the fourth quarter that we possibly could. We still see good projects around, and we expect continuing good order intake also for the first quarter of this year. If we take the average of the last 2 quarters, Q3, Q4, it still is the highest order intake with EUR 2.1 billion. And as we have said, also as you see here, also the 12 months, rolling 12 months order intake with nearly EUR 7.9 billion is record compared to the former record of EUR 7.7 million -- EUR 7.7 billion, sorry. Service, Capital. Service, slightly down to 35%. Obviously, the more volatile Capital business is really on a very high level, and therefore, its share of total order intake has gone up somewhat. But order intake also is -- so order intake in Service also is growing, as you can see, on the lower right-hand side. And Service, with nearly EUR 2.8 billion, has achieved the level of 2019 again and clearly is on the growth -- continues to be on the growth path. Revenue on Slide 7. As I said, minus 4%, a slight decline driven by Pulp & Paper and also Metals, Metals as a consequence of the low order intake in 2019. On the revenue side, on the right side, Capital is 60%; Service, 40%, so with a share in order intake having shifted somewhat towards Capital revenues also will shift towards Capital somewhat. By business area, you see the ratio. Pulp & Paper, still, in spite of the high Capital order intake, still at 45%. Metals is the lowest -- traditionally lowest but stable at 25%. And the line, you also see that we continue to achieve some growth in this Service area. Slide 9, order backlog up 21% compared to end of 2020 record backlog. And typical ratio between the business areas dominated by Pulp & Paper and Hydro, with the other 2 only showing a relatively small share of the backlog. Slide 10, EBITA and EBITA margin. EBITA up 40% from EUR 392 million to EUR 547 million; EBITA margin, 5.8% to -- up to 8.5%. Adjusted EBITA and EBITA margin up from EUR 471 million to EUR 550 million; and profitability, 7% up to 8.5%. Obviously, we are quite happy with this development. Main contributors to this positive development have been Pulp & Paper and Separation. As you see, there's very little, only marginal extraordinary expense activity in 2021. We have only EUR 3 million. So therefore, that's something that does not deserve any further attention for interpreting the 2021 results. Slide 11, profitability by business area. Pulp & Paper, on an adjusted level, 11.6%; reported 11.3%. Metals, good development from the seller of minus 4.5%, now at 2.8%. Adjusted, it's 1.9%. Hydro, very stable, 7.1%, 7.4%. Separation, continuing its good development towards improved very good profitability now and up on an unadjusted basis from 9.4% to 9.8%. Detail to Metals may be of interest. And our Schuler business developed nicely with an adjusted margin of 2.9% or reported of 4.4%. Our Metals -- the old Metals division is breaking even due to some order execution issues. So Schuler is on a good way, but still has a substantial way to go. We'll do our best to make that happen. EBITDA income bridge, I pass on to Norbert Nettesheim, our CFO.

Yes, good morning to all of you also from my side. And as already done in the last presentations, I take over this financial part. The numbers you have on the screen on the Page 12. Dr. Leitner explained already the EBITA situation, 8.5%. And starting from there, going to the right, nothing really spectacular, more or less continuing what we have already communicated in the former quarters. Regular amortization, EUR 62 million. And the last year, we had a EUR 10 million higher due to extraordinary topics in the Metals area, which we this year didn't have. More or less for, let's say, housekeeping and hygienic reasons, we did the adjustment in COMPACT HYDRO in the goodwill. All other cash-generating units have very high and then sufficient headroom. Also, the Schuler headroom is now in a range where we don't have any necessities to correct in the future period. So also this topic is now solved. And I think certainly, we will not surprise you with impairment in the near future or also in the next years. So this gives then an EBIT of 7.4%, increase from 4.7% in the last year driven by the operational performance. And then financial results for the full year now at EUR 40 million minus, a little bit worse than last year. But as already discussed in the former periods, the EUR 40 million includes more than EUR 10 million extraordinary onetime effects. So we have EUR 6.5 million there which is more or less a onetime payment to a minority shareholder, which had to be considered as financial payment. And we have another EUR 4 million extraordinary interest effects from this repayment of the financial instrument of this big loan which we have, which this year is 122% extraordinary payment and had to set off the market values of the interest swaps at about EUR 4 million. So corrected by this, it's EUR 30 million and an improvement compared to last years. EBT then, 6.8% before taxes and, with a tax rate of 26.8%, is expected to be below the 27%. If we come to the nearly achieved target of 4.9% net income, we communicated to the market at the Capital Markets Day, that's 5%, something which we want to have in the future, and let's say, we are nearly there. And we are very confident that we will continue this development also in the future as long as nothing unexpected will happen. EUR 321 million, then we add EUR 92 million OCI mostly from currency exchange rate effects and interest effect on pensions, gives us the EUR 413 million increase in equity on the results side. And this leads to Slide #13, where you see that we have significantly increased the equity to EUR 1.56 billion, reaching 20.4% equity ratio and goodwill adjusted at 11.4% equity. So also equity target to be above 20%. It's already reached this year, but we will work on to improve this also in the future years. Then cash flow situation on Page 14, starting with the EUR 321 million net income adjusting on the noncash and the interest and income elements, leads to a gross cash flow of EUR 671 million, slightly over the cash flow of the past year. And then bringing it home to the cash account, we did also a good job this year. Net working capital, slightly down, so no further cash drain on that side, certainly improved by some down payments in the quarter 4 with the -- let's say, an extraordinary high order intake in the last quarter. So this gave us some tailwind in the working capital range. But working capital will be a topic in the next years to improve this and to take also some liquidity out of this area. The other elements are more or less unspectacular and already explained. Income taxes paid, a little bit higher portion as income taxes in the P&L simply because we, this year, had in the P&L already this increase in deferred tax assets according to the restructuring of our group in Germany, where we now can utilize loss carry forward out of the [ Schuler ] weak periods in the past in the group. But this will be -- show up in cash flow from 2022 onwards. Then out of this EUR 529 million cash flow from operating, we used EUR 160 million for CapEx this year. Most driver for that, that was increased compared to the previous year, but we are a little bit more focused on, let's say, continuing topics. We now have 2 growth topics in nearly EUR 20 million in China for expansion in the old service business in Paper and production line for lamellas, which is also a kind of a production capacity increase to be prepared for future growth in this area. So gives then a free cash flow EUR 370 million. And this then shows also up in our liquidity position, EUR 700 million net liquidity. So as detailed explained on the right, EUR 800 million increase on the '18. And in addition to that, nearly EUR 500 million paid out dividends; nearly EUR 600 million CapEx digested for growth and for maintenance or structures. So overall, in the last year is, from our point of view, very satisfying cash generation in the ANDRITZ Group. Mentioning quickly also here that the cost cash is influenced by this 120% payback of the loan. So well settled for the future and, say, also available to act quickly when any growth opportunities come from the market to us. In the summary is then to be seen on Page 16. I don't want to dig into individual numbers. They are all significantly increased, except revenue, which was explained that it is following the order entry situation of the year before. And CapEx increase, as I said, is the gross investment that which should be a foundation for further profit then in the future. So all numbers up. And then Dr. Leitner already explained and it was communicated, gives us possibility of the cash and the equity situation to pay this EUR 1.65 dividend per share, which is a 53 -- 50.3% payout ratio, so also in the range as predicted. So far from the financial side. And I turn it over to Dr. Leitner.

Thank you very much. Yes. On Page 19, we start with Pulp & Paper. Nearly EUR 3.8 billion order intake, very good. Who contributed to it, what contributed to it, we got order for the complete pulp mill from the largest pulp producer in the world, Suzano in Brazil. We had a very good development from biomass boilers, including Japan. And we had also a continuing boom in orders from the nonwoven business. Revenues, as we have said already, a slight decline. And EBITDA and EBITA, EBITA margin up very nicely and now on a very attractive level with 11.3% EBITA margin for full year 2021. Regional split, I think we have covered, nothing sensational to report there. Slide 20, Metals. Good progress towards a goal that is not yet achieved, to make it clear. Order intake is very good. I think it's our second highest we have had in this business area, nearly EUR 1.8 billion. So that -- with that, we are already satisfied, fully satisfied. Order backlog up substantially. Revenue slightly down in principle because of low order intake of Schuler in 2020. Margin, EBITDA, 6%; and EBITA, 2.8%. As we've said, need to continue to further improve the margin. You see also the development on the employee number. Schuler has gone through a very substantial restructuring, which by now is practically complete or is complete, has taken out a very substantial capacity in Germany, and we feel very comfortable with the current structure given the current business level. Speaking of Schuler, may be also of interest that about 25% of Schuler's volume is related to e-mobility. So again, growth area that certainly will offer continued opportunities for further profitable growth. And in this case, here, you see on the right side the developed markets accounting for 2/3 of the business; and emerging markets, 1/3. Hydro, very good business development. Order intake up to EUR 1.56 billion. Again, we expect continued good order intake also in the first quarter of this year and revenue up. Margins are up, and on an adjusted level, very stable in the 7% range. We obviously expect in general the benign environment for Hydro's business being an important element of sustainable renewable energy. So therefore, we expect a continuing good business volume in this area. Main orders have come in from Mexico and also a very interesting order from Australia, which is combined to solar energy plant and acting as a storage base in a former mine. Last but not least, Separation. Good growth, top line growth. And continuing good development on the margin side, 11.8% EBITDA margin or 9.8% EBITA margin. Also here, you see consequences and the positive effects of cautious policy regarding capacities. Employee number has come down by about 3%. To conclude with the outlook. Obviously, we so far have been seeing good project activity. And we continue to see good project activity in Q1 of this year but are obviously watching very closely what is happening in Ukraine and Russia -- and in Russia. And to put it into perspective, revenues from Russia account for 2% to 3% of our group order intake or revenues, so it's a very limited amount. We have set up years ago a very tight organization checking exports limitations. We need export permits. We are watching very closely and observing very closely sanction lists, embargo lists, et cetera. We are obviously observing all of that very accurately. On the other hand, we are dealing with companies in Russia that have been our customers, our esteemed customers for many years, and we expect them to continue to be customers in the future. Whatever politicians and governments are doing, we will observe. But we're also aware that this is also difficult times for our Russian customers, and we'll do within our limits, within our possibilities what we can to support them. I think that's about the guidance on Russia. Current status. If the situation escalates regarding energy exports from Russia, energy availability in Europe, obviously, we are not in the control seat, so we can only watch. We can prepare to a certain extent and react as we go in the future. Financial guidance for this year. We expect an increase in group revenue, up from the EUR 6.46 billion last year. We expect also an increase in the reported EBITA, last year, EUR 527 million (sic) [ EUR 547 million ]. And we also increased -- expect an increase in net income, up from EUR 322 million. If you would ask, do we expect also a change in relative profitability, you need to be aware that we expect an increase in group revenues, so it will be a challenge already to maintain profitability. But obviously, we'll do our best to get good development of relative profitability. But I ask you for your understanding. It's early March, so we are not in a position to give you any specific guidance on that. So much my report, and I look forward to your questions.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question is from Andreas Willi, JPMorgan.

Dr. Leitner, before I ask my question, I just wanted to thank you for all the discussions and support over the past 20 years of coverage of the stock, which I very much enjoyed, and wish you good luck. The first question I have on the energy crisis in Europe, maybe you could talk a little bit about the potential contribution that Hydro, maybe also biomass can make to the aim to reduce dependence on imported fossil fuels. Is there enough of a lobby for the hydro industry in Europe? And what is the potential? Can modernization of all the plants help improve capacity to reduce dependence on fossil fuel? That's my first question. The second one, on sourcing, maybe you could talk a bit about risks from that. In terms of inflation, we have seen some extreme volatility in some materials like nickel over the last few days, in terms of how your contracts are structured, hedges, escalation clauses. If you could maybe assess this risk a bit for 2022.

Thank you. Well, I'm still around for 1 month, so you're a little bit early. No, but obviously, I appreciate very much your extremely confident contributions and covering us, clear coverage. Regarding Hydro, obviously, we could always have a better lobbying and a better presence, but I think we are in a very good position. Hydro is in a very good position to benefit from that. We need to keep in mind that these type of projects has years of preparation time, so there is nothing that you can switch on from one day to the other. It's similar to the military competence of the European Union, I would say. But there are projects around. There are obviously -- hydro is obviously the most stable source of renewable energy. And if we want to develop the hydrogen economy, a lot of renewable electricity is needed to create and to produce this hydrogen. And there, certainly hydro is a prime selection of how we can produce this renewable energy. That -- will that change completely in the market size? No, I don't think so. But I think this storage -- both the storage need for solar and wind electricity as well as the need of a substantially more sustainable energy, not only to replace existing but also to produce this hydrogen, should continue to be a positive effect for the next several years in a -- to a limited extent but clearly recognizable, I would say. Regarding supply chain, yes, I think we have managed, I think, 6x price increase of container transport from China to Europe last year. We definitely will face challenges regarding the supply chain in Europe. And I think, again, we need to keep in mind, effect in Asia will be very limited, if at all. But in Europe, we will feel that. To also give you an order of magnitude, our estimates of the steel content in our revenues, first of all, it is difficult to estimate because we source products from sub-suppliers and so on, but it's definitely in the single-digit percentage content of steel in our revenues. Now if that goes up, obviously, it will have an effect. But obviously, a lot of our backlog has already been ordered to execute. So if there is a hike in steel prices for a few months, this will have quite a small effect on our cost base. But there would be challenges. Nobody knows today what the development will be. I think you also have energy. Energy prices are not of the utmost importance for us. I mean, we basically run machines, so it may have effect more on our customers, for example, in the paper industry, if they are not integrated. But again, that the energy price will not have an effect. Obviously, if energy availability would become an issue, then we have a different category of situation in Europe. But I think then we can -- all of us can speculate what the consequences would be then for the economy in Europe. I think that should have answered your questions.

The next question is by Sven Weier, UBS.

First of all, obviously, joining Andreas in the gratitude, having covered the stock for the last 15 years. So thank you very much and really sad that we have to do this virtually. So let me start with the first question, please, and that's following up on the comments you've made on Russia, and thanks for that. I was just wondering, is there any difference in the share of the backlog that Russia has and what the situation means to the execution of the current projects? Do we have to stop it entirely? And I was also wondering about the importance of Russia for your procurement. Is there any greater relevance in your sourcing or production? So that's the first one.

Yes. Obviously, we -- there are -- in the execution, in the delivery, there are implications currently. I mean, you know the big container lines, MSC and Maersk, they're not delivering anymore. We can only ship if payment is guaranteed. We can -- we need to check if it's -- we have an insurance, either economic risk or political risk, whether we can continue to deliver. So there are many, many, how should I say, complications. But yes, I think so far, it is too early to see any substantial effect on our business. And again, as I said, the share of Russian business is 2% to 3%. Regarding sourcing, very little, and if at all, only indirect. Russia is exporting a lot of steel to Europe, so if that would be reduced or stopped, that could have an effect on the European steel price. We would ship whatever we can to Asia, but there would be some effect short term. So I cannot say that this will -- there will not be any effect. But seen from today, I would not expect any dramatic effects.

No, that's fair enough. The second question was just also following up on what you said in terms of the guidance on EBIT. First of all, I was wondering, does it mean anything that you don't say slight increase, but you say increase? I mean, is there any difference between the 2? Or would you say that at the moment, the same? And secondly, I was just wondering, of course, I understand it's hard to say whether there will be a margin improvement for the group. But how should we think about the divisional performance? On Metals, I thought the margin performance was a bit disappointing, to be honest, last year. Was just wondering how the prospective looks for this year, whether you're aiming to see a greater improvement there and whether the other divisions should be then -- be more stable, let's say.

Yes. Regarding the first question, keep in mind, I have PhD in chemistry and not linguistics. So there is not [indiscernible]. No intention behind that, yes. Secondly, yes, the margin development in Metals has been disappointing, not because of Schuler. I think Schuler has done a very good job. But because the [indiscernible] that was breakeven only. And that was due to some order execution issues which come up from time to time there. We have made organizational changes. We are still in the process of making a few more. So clearly, that is a challenge. Clearly, it would be a big disappointment if the Metals margin for 2022 would not go up. But again, it's early March, so we cannot give you any guidance on that. For the rest, can you assume that the rest of the margins will be stable if Metals will go up, so therefore, the margin will go up? You should not do that. I think, I mean, Pulp & Paper margin is very good. Pulp & Paper has had a record order intake coming also from some very large projects. Very large projects have below average margin within the Capital business. And Capital has a below-average margin compared to Service business. And that means that all that puts the margin under pressure, so to say, but clearly, it's a positive for the -- if you're counting in millions. And I think Hydro, I would say, is a very stable business and also has its own projects and programs to improve areas where, let's say, the profitability is below average. I think that's the story regarding relative margin for 2022.

Dr. Leitner, is there already going to be a relatively high share of revenue generation for the major pulp project? Or is this more loaded then to next year then?

Typically, I mean the order intake has been rather late as far as I remember in the year. So it would be mostly engineering and a rather slow ramp-up of revenues. But I think towards the end of the year, I would say we will see some good revenues already.

The last question I had, if I may, was just on the order pipeline. I understand you were obviously already relatively upbeat about Q1, and I understand, obviously, current uncertainties make it a bit tough. But let's say, when we started the year, what's the pipeline in a way that maybe the order intake in 2022 could be not too far away from where it was last year overall?

I think given the uncertainties regarding Russia and Europe and given the very high order intake last year, I would not want to give you have any comment on that question.

Okay. Fair enough. And...

There's a good project activity. But how all of that will add up is just too early to say.

Understood. And again, all the best.

Thank you. Don't forget, I will move to the Supervisory Board. I will join you in watching what my colleagues are reaching, yes.

The next question is by Daniel Lion, Erste Group.

Yes. And also from my side, all the best going forward. Also enjoyed working with you over the years. I guess many things have already been asked, but do you have an overview of potential receivables risk from Russia? How does it work with the Russian business in general? Do you usually use prepayments? Or do you get the payments afterwards, after supplying [ parts ] out of the contracts? How do you see this in the context currently?

Yes. Well, there is -- I cannot say there is no risk at all. It's a mixture of orders where we may have a little bit more in WIP compared to payments. There are others where we have more payments. We have certain types of insurance, but obviously, you never can have 100% insurance. If everything stops, obviously, there would be an impact, but I would say it's in a low and maybe approaching middle digit of millions, that could be at risk, but definitely not more than that. And again, it's too early to say. I think -- and to make it very clear, our customers in Russia are suffering as much as anybody else on the business side. I'm not talking about what is happening in Ukraine here. And they're not responsible for what is happening in Ukraine, but they are caught in -- within their country, within their government. So clearly, they look at us to help them in whatever is allowed. And we will do that, and we will follow exactly the sanctions. And beyond that, we will help them. And we will -- obviously, you can imagine, including myself and my colleagues on the Board and our managers, they are on the phone daily with our customers in Russia trying to figuring out what can we do, how can they get money to release the -- is there a way to transport something. And that will continue. It can normalize. If there is a truce in the Ukraine, I think that could normalize quite quickly. If there is an escalation, that will go into the opposite direction. And we just can handle that and feel that on a daily basis.

Would you see any troubles? Or how do you deal with payments overall currently now that transfers are definitely at least more difficult, if possible at all? Are you planning to keep the money then in Russia or -- and in ruble? Or how do -- how are you expected to deal with this situation?

Well, our company activities in Russia are very limited. We have 100 people plus, something like that, employees. So just to mention that we have been successful in bringing out our people from Russia. We have, unfortunately, 4 people in Ukraine that have not been allowed to exit Ukraine and have come back to Russia. There is very limited capital involved or money involved. And yes, there would not be any visible effect on our group numbers at all.

Having a look at the order intake, you mentioned you're supposed to have a good order intake going into the first quarter. Has this somehow in the last 2 weeks changed a little bit? Are you -- I know maybe it's too early, but are you seeing that your clients are starting to get cautious with new orders, new investments? And...

I think the escalation we've seen in Ukraine is now 10 or 12 years old. I mean, we have not received phone calls from customers saying that they've changed their opinion on the overall economy, and therefore, they are not pursuing their project. But as I said, I mean, if things continue to be on this bad level as they are today in the Ukraine or even escalate, that will have an effect on the general economic expectations of our customers at least in Europe. Let's not forget that Europe accounts for about 30%, 35% of our revenues, and the rest is North America and the developing markets in Asia and South America, which are much less affected. So let's see how -- I think it definitely depends on the question whether it continues to be a bearable local conflict or whether it escalates into some more threatening on the Ukraine.

Sure, sure. And last but not least, you mentioned to be watching the markets regarding potential acquisitions. Any more detail? Is it getting closer? Are there some available targets that you see at the moment? Or is it still rather just watching the situation in case there's an opportunity?

Nothing that you can expect we will announce next weeks, but we have continuing discussions. Some of these are small acquisitions, add-on acquisitions, nothing dramatic. And yes, if only something becomes tangible, we will anyway report it.

The next question is by Peter Rothenaicher, Baader Bank.

Yes. Dr. Leitner, firstly, one question on hydropower. So you mentioned the Mexico project. I had the impression that not the full order has been booked, so what can we expect here? Will the remainder and to what extent booked in Q1 and some parts even later?

Your impression is correct. I would say less than half has been booked last year.

And then the remainder coming in Q1? Or...

Yes.

Then regarding Pulp & Paper, now you had last year one really big project. What is your view on the current year? Are there also some bigger projects in the pipeline where you expect to be successful?

Well, whether we are successful or not, we only know once the customer has decided. But yes, there are some other large projects around for potentially this year, and they would not be in Europe.

Okay. Then one follow-up on your -- the question regarding risk potential. I did not completely understand what was your estimate on the risk potential, single-digit million? Or...

Our risk potential regarding what?

Regarding the Russian projects, payment.

[indiscernible] but maybe it has been not really understandable. If everything goes wrong, if we talk about the worst-case scenario, the effect would be double-digit millions, low double digit, maybe approaching middle -- how should I say, it would be lower double-digit million effect on receivables and so on. But this would be the very worst case, which currently definitely is not visible.

Yes. And last but not least, Schuler had obviously good development last year in terms of order intake. What is your view here for the pipeline in the current year? And particularly in which regions do you see here a potential?

It looks reasonably good. It's -- there's some announcement of some European OEMs, car OEMs that will invest in areas that would be relevant for Schuler. Otherwise, I would say it's a -- no focus on any specific region or type of business.

And how is business in China here going on?

For Schuler, nothing dramatic that I would know, so it's business as usual, I would say. I mean maybe the -- yes, on the local Schuler company, they had a very good last year in order intake. They are on a very good growth path, has been a very good acquisition. And for them, we continue to be optimistic for also 2022. So in this regard, yes, China looks -- continue to look promising for Schuler. Any other questions? No?

There are no further questions for the moment, and so I hand back to you.

Thank you very much. Obviously, I am -- I will miss you. I have to add this to all your nice words. Thank you very much. And I can guarantee you that ANDRITZ is in excellent hands with my colleagues. And you will enjoy at least as much with them as you have done with me. And again, I will move into the Supervisory Board and will continue to follow ANDRITZ. No plans to sell my shares and -- but I reserve the right to sell my shares to make it legally compliant. And yes, look forward to reading your research reports. And if I have some questions, maybe ask you what your opinion on ANDRITZ is in the future, yes? Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

Thank you. Bye-bye.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your attendance. This call has been concluded. You may disconnect.