AngioDynamics, Inc. (ANGO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Great. Hello everyone. Thank you for joining us this afternoon. My name is Harry Pearson. I'm with JPMorgan's health care investment banking team. It's my pleasure to be introducing Jim Clemmer, CEO of AngioDynamics; and Stephen Trowbridge, CFO. We're going to have a presentation followed by a little time for Q&A. Take it away, Jim.

Thank you, Harry, and thanks for JPMorgan for a perfect conference again. Thank you for joining us today. Before I begin, let me remind you to look at our forward-looking statements, remind you that we're going to give you some thoughts, ideas, plans and projections today. We can't guarantee you that all these will come true. But do your good work as investors, do your due diligence and make your best decisions. So AngioDynamics is a company that has gone through a transformation over the past 5 years or so. We started off as an interventional radiology based company in upstate New York and built a strong legacy serving that community. They got to know us well. we serve them well. But over time, our portfolio needed to be refreshed. So myself and my colleagues took a look about 6 years ago of where we should be, where we shouldn't be and really how to change the company through a more vibrant scientific-based portfolio that compete in larger, more addressable markets. So over the past 5 years, the left side of the slide shows you what we've done, really focused on refreshing that portfolio. We did 3 divestitures to exit markets or businesses, but we didn't think we were the best owner of those businesses. They either were slow markets, they were undifferentiated by technology. We're really commodity markets that we weren't interested in. So we took a look at how we could change. And we develop what we call today our Med Tech portfolio focused on 3 different categories with 4 great pros in those categories. As you can see in the bottom left slide there, over the past 5 years, during this investment period, during this time of change and transformation, we've actually performed really well. We've got a 5-year CAGR of growth there at about 25% in the med tech markets while we're transforming the company. On the far right, you'll see the company that we are today, and we will be for many years: high-performing company based on markets that are large, addressable markets have a great growth rate, and we can win scientifically or outcome-based with our products. That's who we are. So during the journey, we're a company with more than one thing in our portfolio. So a few years ago, we decided to report to you in 2 operating segments. On the left side of the slide, it shows you those 2 segments, our Med Tech portfolio, that's our growth-based future; and our Med Device portfolio, which has really gotten us here. And what we have today in that portfolio are kind of the best of what we decided to keep there. These are good products. They're in good markets. We have a really great commercial and clinical team that supports them and really can keep at or above growth rates even in those markets. So we're focused on our company really on the 2 disease states you see on the top through leading causes of mortality globally, or cardiovascular disease and solid tumor cancer. So we focus most of our energy in those disease states. So this is a busy slide that shows you what we've got to offer in each of those 2 segments and categories and maybe why we can be a little bit complicated for investors to understand. I'll do my best job and we'll do the best job we can to make us easier to understand because there's a lot of good things here at Angio. So let me talk about a few of those things. First, the cardiovascular markets. We decided to focus on cardiovascular disease that we can treat in the arteries and veins. We want to keep healthy blood flowing to and from the heart and work on areas that we can help that happen. So once we decided to focus on cardiovascular disease, we had a product on AngioVac that you'll hear about in a minute. We had just completed the go-ahead for AlphaVac, the R&D project to launch AlphaVac. So we had a venous disease platform that we were building, we were confident in. We wanted to be in our arterial disease. And we knew about PAD. We thought the market was right for disruption, and we found this product called Auryon, which we launched in September of 2020. Since launch, we've taken share from the other 5 players in those categories. And they're really large global players that you all know well. So we launched it in September 2020 with 0 revenue. And this year, we'll do well over $60 million of revenue, all organic growth, taking share from 5 really good, strong companies. Why? Our product is really good. Scientific based product that uses laser energy delivered through our disposable catheters that can disrupt hard calcification or soft plaque above or below the knee and treat instant restenosis safely within the diseased arteries. So we've taken share in this space because our product is really good. And along the way, we learned how to build the business within a business, kind of created a start-up mentality here in this older company. So today, Auryon is a really important product for our company. We just reported our second quarter, I should have mentioned earlier, we're probably the only company here at the conference with a June 1 fiscal year start every year. So November 30 was the second quarter operationally for us. We just reported those results last Tuesday. And you can see Auryon is up nearly 20% year-to-date in our first 2 quarters. So still taking share in a market that's not growing that rapidly. What this shows, again, what we can do with a scientific product in a tough market with tough competitors, we've also shifted different care points. Early when we launched Auryon, we sold it to the office-based laboratory setting as the COVID pandemic kind of kept a lot of us in new products out of hospitals during that time period. So we can win in the OBL labs. Then when hospitals reopened about 2 years ago, we focused there, that we're in the hospital, gaining traction, gaining business there. It's really a good place for us to be long term. We have higher ASPs, better reimbursement, higher gross margins for us. We have a great mix today in our business. Really proud of what Auryon has done. So that's what we call our Cardiovascular A business. Now Cardiovascular Venous is a really important category for us as well. This is a business made with 2 different products in this category, treating VTE, which is venous thromboembolism. We will not have a spelling test, but the part of VTE that we compete in today is PE, pulmonary embolism, which is an interesting, fast-growing space, many investors are well aware of a couple of companies that are doing well in that space. So we decided to enter the PE space with a product that we call AlphaVac, which is spun off of our AngioVac product. AngioVac is a unique product with a vortex funnel tip, a large board catheter and gets hooked up to a simultaneous reinfusion system within a hospital, allows physicians to get mass burden of clot out of the body in a safe and effective manner and return blood safely back to that patient in these complex right heart procedures. So AngioVac is the base of this business. AlphaVac is our new product. We got AlphaVac on label about 18 months ago with a PE study. So today, we're competing in that market as well. This market is really important for us. So we decided that we focused really firmly on the technology and design of our products. We give Inari a lot of credit really kind of broke ground in catheter-based interventions in treating PE about 6 years ago, did a really good job getting doctors used to using catheter-based products instead of lytic-based therapies as a front-line treatment. Inari did a good job there, for a number of soon followed adapting their products to this market. What we're third in, we had the blessing though being third, looking at what those 2 companies did well. And where they left some gaps for improvement, and we listened to doctors what we could do better. If you take a look at the product design in the middle of the page there, you'll see our product. It's a really well-designed catheter with that vortex funnel tip on the right side. So we've got an 18 French catheter and a 32 French funnel tip enables us to grab more clot than the other products can do in a safe manner without hurting the vessel wall internally. On the left side, you'll see a purpose-built handle giving the physician control of aspiration, technique, steerable options and also limiting blood loss when he's searching for finding the clot, then removing the clot. That's the AlphaVac. It competes today in that market. If you take a look at the picture in the bottom middle, we're really proud of this. Every morning, I decided I wake up. I usually get 1 or 2 of these pictures every morning. That's a real picture of clot pulled out of a patient that was on a table that was suffering from a PE. AlphaVac does what others can't quite do. The other companies are terrific and their products are good, but our product can pull more cloud out faster in a more effective and safe manner. We're really proud of the design of AlphaVac. You'll see that here. The study that we piloted to get our FDA clearance for PE was called APEX PE. And the APEX study was done following the same protocol that Penumbra and are used. So following that same protocol, you can see in the bottom of the page there, how much better we performed in getting a reduction in the patients that were in the study. So it's not an accident. You saw that picture in the last slide. It's because the doctors can use our product. They can use their skill and their knowledge. We give them a tool, enables them to use more of their knowledge, how to access the clock in a safe and effective manner get to it, extract as much clot as they can and reduce the blood loss during the procedure. So we've built in some really cool innovative features that the other products don't have. And we can also have an adaptable steerable component, doesn't require the doctor to take out a guidewire reanswer guidewires. So we save the physician time and make the ability to flip from the left PA to the right PA much faster and more seamless for the physician. So we're really proud of the device. It's really important device for us. Competing in a market, as we all know, that's really interesting and fast growing. Today, between Inari, Penumbra and AngioDynamics, we're probably only about 15% penetrated in the potential TAM that exists. So all 3 of us will work on market development, getting more physicians comfortable with our devices and getting them to convert frontline treatment of patients suffering from PEs from lytic-based blood thinner therapies to these clut-extraction devices. Along the way, we'll also probably take share from the other 2 players in the space because our product is better. Even though we're smaller, we're third in, we have the best device. We're really proud of it. So that's a really important device for us. That kind of rounds out our cardiovascular business. We're going to be a serious player for years to come in arterial and venous disease. Now the other intermediate risk. Prostate cancer is a really important area for us to focus on. We have a product called NanoKnife, which you'll see in a moment. It uses energy in a unique format to treat solid tumor cancers. So we've had this device in house for a number of years. It's been used primarily for liver cancer, the most common, pancreas cancer, second most common. But we always thought prostate was the ideal application to give men a focal treatment option, meaning you leave the prostate in the body, treat the disease, and you can really reduce the risk of incontinence or impotence that we all know are associated with radical prostatectomy that most of men are used to treat these diseases. NanoKnife works really well. It preserves function for the man while destroying the tissue that serves as the house of the tumor. The way NanoKnife works is we have a generator that allows electricity to be generated and deliver it through our probes. The doctor can place the probes around the tumor, creates really a mini electrical field, which creates nano-sized particles in the cell wall of the tumor that we're targeting. And then ultimately, those cell destruction allows the tumor to die naturally and get flushed out of the body, while keeping intact the other organs, the vascular structure and other tissue surrounding the delicate organs we're treating. So it's a really unique science IRE or irreversible electroporation is the science underlying NanoKnife. It's really amazing and unique. And it gives our physicians the ability to treat organs like prostate in a matter that didn't have that chance to do before. So really excited about what we can do. We've worked hard with this device. The FDA opened up a new pathway for clearance about 5 years ago. We chose that pathway and sponsored a study called PRESERVE. What the PRESERVE study showed that we can treatment and do a 1-year follow-up to measure their cancer control, also measure the level of incontinence the men have suffered from post treatment, and the results are stunning when you see it on the slide here today. So PRESERVE showed what we knew, showed to the urology community, how NanoKnife could be an effective treatment for the men with intermediate risk prostate cancer. So the size of this market is important. In the U.S. alone, 300,000 men will be diagnosed this year with some level of prostate cancer. Nearly half of those will be intermediate risk, a Gleason 7 score, if you're familiar with that range. That's a really large market. for us to focus on. Most of those men today are getting either radical prostatectomy that don't need it or maybe they're being told to go home and have what's for waiting still or maybe another one of the other focal modalities that are on the market, but haven't really taken a lot of share in the market. for other reasons as to how they work. What the PRESERVE study showed that NanoKnife is easy to use for a physician, can do the procedure in less than 1 hour, the cancer control is tremendous and the reduction of the 2 forms of unfortunate side effects of the other treatment options don't happen here. So we give patients the ability to be treated. We preserve the function of the man being treated. We also preserve the chance to be treated again someday, whether it's another NanoKnife procedure 3, 5, 7 years later or maybe radiation years later, maybe a radical prostatectomy, but pushing that off for a long period of time is important to us. So NanoKnife is really important. This is a really big market. We got on label about 13 months ago, in December 2024, the PRESERVE study allowed the FDA to grant us the indication and clearance to market the device. And we just got our CPT I code approved and opened 14 days ago. As of January 1, we've got a product now on label and a CPT won't go to support reimbursement. So now we've shifted into now adjacent and awareness gains, making men aware of this new treatment option that they have and making urologists in the country aware of how they can bring that into their practice and use NanoKnife to give men a new focal treatment option that gives the men what they're looking for a safe and effective way to control the cancer. It gives urologist a way to bring it into a practice and a procedure that can be done in less than an hour. The reimbursement is fine for the facility and for the physician. They're both pleased and the man gets what he wants. So we're really excited here. It's a new thing for us. We're not a consumer marketing company, but we've done a really good job today bringing awareness about this product out there. We've also been named this year to TIME Magazine, One of the Top 25 Medical Inventions this year. We're really proud of that. And on the other side, we started part of our marketing and awareness campaign in October, a really nice full page ad in AARP, which generated a ton of interest that we're working on follow-ups on today. So here we are today, 4 different products in 3 different areas in 2 big disease states. This is our company. I think our company has also performed really well looking at the results we've delivered over time. company, I would argue, probably every CEO at this conference will say we're undervalued. I can point to that and do math for you later. But we really have a lot of value we can create, if we keep following this pathway of our journey of transformation. We keep executing and delivering on growth above market in these 3 important categories. And how are we going to do that? Here's how. So today, I'm talking about what we have today on the market and why we're such a significant player and these products work really well. but we got a big tomorrow as well. What this slide I'll show you on the left side of the slide, it shows you the 3 disease states I talked about, and shows you the products we have today already launched the PAD product, the PE product, the right heart product, and now the prostate on the bottom. We're in those 4 markets today with our 4 products. We've got a really strong pipeline. So each of these platform products will spin off over the next 5 years. So it doesn't require us to look to M&A or other areas to try to find new ideas. Each of these platforms offer really big TAM expansion opportunities with the same technology we have today. Let me give an example, starting in the bottom of the slide. Over the past year or 2 now that we're treating more men with prostate cancer, physicians are following up with those patients after they've been treated. And they're calling us saying, "Hey, guys, not only do we control that man's cancer, we also control his BPH. You shrunk is prostate. The BPH went away." The BPH market is far larger than the immediate risk prostate cancer market. By the way, the prostate cancer market is nearly $1 billion in the U.S. BPH exceeds that. So we're now going to see what do we do next? How we entered that market over the next couple of years. Really big TAM expansion opportunity for our company. Right above that, you'll see with our AngioVac and AlphaVac opportunities to expand where we play today with the same products. I mentioned to you today, we're a player in PE, a really great, important opportunity for us. But DVT is the other half of venous thromboembolism treatment. Penumbra does a really good job in that space. We think we can challenge that space today. If you look, you'll see what's interesting here, you see a DVT slide on both the Auryon section at top in blue and in red on the AlphaVac section. So we've actually got 2 different R&D teams at Angio competing, a little bake off here. We think we have a way for both teams actually to have a really effective treatment option for DVT. So the gentleman in the audience, Ben Davis, who runs our or indeed department, and we're having this bake off internally to see which product we'll bring to market during this 5-year period, opening up again another opportunity for us to compete in a really large, fast-growing and important market. And finally, at the top on Auryon, on the bottom right in the blue there is the coronary market. Today, I mentioned how good Auryon is doing, taking share from the other 5 big companies in the peripheral arterial disease market. The coronary market is larger than PAD. We don't think it takes much R&D work at all to deliver a safe and effective treatment for coronary arterial disease, which will again expand our TAM and opportunity in a big way. So that's our company, focused on today, delivering it today in the large markets we're in, focusing on growth. And while we're doing this, we're also affecting the P&L that we have. We're now growing these markets which are larger gross margins, higher gross margins, dropping them through a P&L, which for the last few years was under pressure, funding investments, getting things to market. Today, now we're generating positive EBITDA -- this is the first year will be cash flow positive as well. Every year from here, we'll generate more EBITDA and free cash. And the P&L is strong, and our balance sheet today has 0 debt. So we're a really strong company with a bright future. Last Tuesday, as I mentioned, we gave our second quarter financial outlook. We met or exceeded all the Wall Street consensus numbers that were put upon expectations for us. We even raised guidance in a couple of categories here. So for the full year in the far right column shows the new guidance that we put out last year, it shows again a company that although more than half of our revenue today is in that med device slower growth area, our med tech area slowly about to pass that. Over time, our med device products become less important to the P&L, really important to our company and our customers, and they're an important part of our journey. But the company will be more known as a growth company led by our Med Tech products and what it can do. for our business and our customers going forward. And finally, as I wrap, this is a great summary, I think, of our company. We've changed this company. We've done with other companies need to do or should do. We did it. a small-cap company during a time of change. And in this marketplace, we sold products that had EBITDA. They were profitable. They were the wrong product for us. We entered markets that are larger, faster-growing, they're competitive but we knew that science-based outcomes that you could prove can change physician behavior and grow revenue and sales. That's what we've done. We're still working on it. We're not done yet. We're just getting started here, but this shows you really a summary of what we're proud about how this can stands today and how strong we are. So last Tuesday, when we announced our Q2 results, we were proud of what we announced. Our stock didn't do well, though. We also announced I'm going to retire from our company this calendar year. We've been in our industry for 35 years, been really fortunate to serve our industry working for 3 great companies, AngioDynamics and 2 other ones. I've been here almost 10 years. So the role that I took when I served -- when I joined Angio was to change the company to set it up for where we are today. So I'm going to stay at the helm over the next number of months. We're going to do a search process and find the right leader to come in at some point later this year and serve the company in this role. I'll stay associated with the company for a long period to come. I'm a really large shareholder, so we get a room from the sidelines and advise from the inside as well. But that might have put pressure on the stock last week as well. Whenever you have a management transformation that's announced. With that, I'll stop for a minute, and I'll welcome Steve Trowbridge, our CFO, to take questions. Steve?

Jim, thank you so much. Maybe I'll kick off with one question, just touching on your retirement that you just announced or that you had recently announced. Can you talk a little bit more about why was now the right time? What do you think this means for Angio going forward?

Thanks, Harry. So it's really the clock for me, the right time at this point in my life, 35 years in the business. I am fortunate I want to pursue some family obligations and interest that I have outside of work. And I've given a lot of time and energy to this career in this company in the last 9 or 10 years. I need a little bit of free time on the site to do other interest from my family. So it was the right time for me personally. It's never a great time for the company, I know that. I love this company, love where we are. But I felt better about it based upon what we just delivered last week and what we delivered in the last 6 or 7 quarters before that. I think the company, if you look at us, has a pretty good legacy now of delivering or beating expectations. While we're also transforming the thing, which is hard to do. So over here, we're working on stuff and today, we're delivering. So I felt really good. It's a good time. The company is going to thrive for years to come. And so here we are today. We'll do a really good job. If there's qualifying internal candidates, they'll get a chance to compete for the job. And we're also probably a really desirable role for good external people probably want to be interested in coming here. So we'll make sure we choose the right leader. There's not a rush to it. We'll be deliberate and thoughtful to get the right leader for our company.

That's fantastic. I have a few more questions, but we'll turn it over to the audience, see if we have any in the gallery Okay. More for me then. Perfect. I think you have a lot of exciting developments in the Med Tech business coming down the pipeline over the medium term. Can you also talk a little bit about how we should think about the continuation of -- to drive growth in the near term with your existing portfolio and how you're pursuing that?

Sure, Steve.

Yes. I think as Jim went through the story for AngioDynamics is we're driving growth primarily through our Med Tech platform. So he had a slide up there that talked about the last 5 years, the products that we put into our Med Tech segment have had a CAGR of 25% growth. We expect growth to continue through those existing Med Tech products in the markets that they're in today in the short to medium term. So as Jim mentioned, we talk about the Auryon product line. We've been really pleased with the growth we've seen with Auryon. We expect that to continue. We're taking share in the atherectomy market. On the mechanical thrombectomy that's probably where you're going to see the biggest growth for us over the short term into the medium term as we go into those really attractive markets into PE just kind of in the beginning of seeing what AlphaVac can do and pleased with the performance that we've seen with AngioVac. So that's probably where you're going to see the most growth is in that thrombectomy space. And then there's NanoKnife I actually hope there's a horse race between where the biggest growth is coming from, whether it's thrombectomy or NanoKnife now with getting the CPT code and the really exciting prostate market that Jim talked about. But I think what's even more exciting than the growth you're going to see, which is really exciting, you have in the short to medium term, is the fact that all 3 of those platforms that we have are set up to drive growth in the medium to long term as well. And it doesn't mean that we have to do a lot of R&D work to change those products. The platform technologies can go into other markets. We can increase the TAM that we're going after primarily through regulatory and clinical pathway expansion. And that's what Jim talked about taking Auryon and then in the medium to long term, moving into the coronary space. It's actually a bigger market than PAD than what we're playing in now. And so that's a sustained kind of 20%, 15% to 20% growth that you're seeing in Auryon, we expect that to continue for quite a long time with that pathway expansion. Getting into BPH with NanoKnife is another good example of where you're going to see some growth accelerators because we think the prostate market, we can drive growth in that short, medium and long term and then add BPH on top of that. And then in the thrombectomy market, potentially taking AngioVac from being focused on the right side, while we're growing the PE space with AlphaVac and going on to the left side of the heart, which is a much bigger market there. So we're really well positioned with the technologies that we have in-house to drive growth that we've seen historically to continue that in the short term, but then to make it sustainable as you head into the medium and long term.

That's great. I just wanted to touch a little bit more on that sort of the profitability side and what you all have done. Can you walk us through the progression of profitability in the back half of '26 in particular? And how that might evolve moving forward and what you all are learning?

Yes. I think what Jim talked about with the transformation of AngioDynamics, he had mentioned that we had done some portfolio moves over the past 3 to 5 years, right, getting rid of some of the less core, less strategic assets that maybe we weren't the best owners of so that we could focus on those Med Tech assets. Now while we did that, there was some EBITDA that we gave away. So if you look historically, we did take a step back in terms of EBITDA, but it was the right time in kind of that '21 time frame for us to sell assets, take cash, recapitalize the balance sheet, got us into the position that we're in today with 0 debt and a net cash position. Last year, we were positive EBITDA on an adjusted basis from a pro forma perspective coming out of those divestitures. So it was important for us to get over that hump to prove that the business model can provide positive EBITDA. We're going to then build on that EBITDA this year. And as Jim said, we'll be cash flow positive. So cash sustaining after this fiscal year that ends in May 31 of 2026 and then heading into FY '27. So if you look at this year's results, we're getting to your question, we were really pleased with the EBITDA generation that we had in the first half. It was ahead of the expectations that we set. It was ahead of some of the consensus expectations that we had out there. A little bit of that is timing, right? We announced a couple of new studies that were approved that we're going to start to fund in the back half of the year. And then we're going to be making some investments in the sales and marketing group as well. So as Jim mentioned, as we're growing into that thrombectomy space. We went from 40 reps last year. We have 50 reps this year. We're going to continue to add reps to execute on that opportunity in thrombectomy. We're going to continue to add reps in the oncology space as we get the CPT code, and that is start to expanding into the prostate market. So R&D and sales and marketing, we've got some investments that are coming into the back half, not that we're going to go backwards in EBITDA, but just we may not see the exact same pace of EBITDA generation in the final 6 months that we saw in the first 6 months. But we're still ahead of the expectations that we set at the very beginning of the year.

That's great. It's really helpful. You talked a little bit about some of the strategic decisions you've made over the past couple of years of the portfolio. How should investors be thinking about your future portfolio management both in terms of acquisitions or divestitures?

It's a great question. And if you look at the last slide we presented, we think there's so much room internally on internal development work the product development teams we have, the clinical and regulatory teams that are working on pathway expansion and even our global geographic teams, they're working around the world to open up new access to markets. We think there's so much opportunity there on our current pipeline of products we have and it's a safer bet working with things you know and you own internally. So I would not look to us to do a lot of work externally for M&A over the next couple of years. We're going to build cash and have a strong balance sheet, but I don't think we'll use cash immediately to buy other things. You may see us again work on the portfolio shifts along the way of maybe assets that we don't love as much as someone else may love. But most of our focus will be on getting what you saw on that slide to market.

Perfect. And then maybe wrapping up here, one last kind of broader question. What do you think investors are missing up the story you want them to take away from today?

Yes. It's a question we talk about all the time. And quite frankly, in the days we've been here at this conference, we've had a lot of conversations with investors that are both in the stock and some that are maybe thinking about getting in the stock asking that exact question. I think Jim hit on it in his prepared remarks in that we're a small cap Med Tech company, right? And certainly coming into this conference, there was -- you were watching the market dynamics, and it was challenging. And I think structurally, there's some of those things. We're also not a pure play, right? So at a company that's our size as you see, we've got a lot of opportunities but that means that there's a lot of elements that you have to go through to understand our company and understand all the different options that we have in med tech, and then we've got 2 different businesses, the Med Tech and the med device business. They make a lot of sense together for us as we run this business when you think about the strategic direction that we've taken using the earnings profile and the cash generation foundation of the med device business to fund the investments necessary to drive growth into med tech. When you put them together, they tend to mask each other a little bit in terms of looking at the overall company. And to your earlier -- to the previous question around M&A, divestiture acquisitions, I think Jim is exactly right. I wouldn't look for us to do tuck-in acquisitions because I think we have so many opportunities in front of us with the platforms that we have in-house. But you may see us do a little bit more of the portfolio optimization that we were doing over the last 4 or 5 years. As we continue to get critical mass in the Med Tech segment, when we started this transformation, those products made 17% of our total revenue base. Today, they're over 45% and they'll probably be more than 50 as we head into FY '27. And are getting critical mass in that higher-margin, higher-growth businesses. And as we do that and they get that critical mass where they can be stand-alone and profit generating on their own, becomes a little less imperative for us to continue to own some of those legacy device assets. Again, we think there's probably better owners for those assets than a company like AngioDynamics as we're currently structured where we want to focus on the tech growth. But as they're together today does provide a little bit of an offsetting story. Device provides earnings and cash, but it brings down our top line revenue growth profile, it brings down our margin profile. And that's the balance we're always thinking about. So I think there's a lot there for investors to try to unpack in a market when we know that some of the small cap Med Tech name just in general, are under challenge. And then, look, we have some uncertainty with Jim's announcement. Your first question was why was it the right time for the company? I think Jim won't say this himself. The answer is, it's not. It's not right for the company. It is right for Jim. It's right for Jim in his personal life. He's earned that right to do that. And he set the company up well that we're very well positioned to go through this transition, but I think there's some uncertainty in the market now.

Never is the right time, but you have a great team in place. Awesome. Well, Jim, Stephen, with that, I think we can wrap things up. Thank you so much.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.