Anupam Rasayan India Ltd (ANURAS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q1 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call of Anupam Rasayan India Limited. [Operator Instructions]. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Krishna Patel from Ernst & Young. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

Thank you, [Rituja], and good evening, everyone. Welcome to Anupam Rasayan India Limited's Q1 FY '25 Earnings Call. Please note that a copy of the disclosure is available on the Investors section of the website as well as on the stock exchange. Anything said on this call, which reflects the outlook towards the future or which could be construed as a forward-looking statement must be reviewed in conjunction with the risk that the company faces. Please note that the audio of the earnings call is the copyright material of Anupam Rasayan and cannot be copied, rebroadcasted, attributed in press or media without specific and written consent of the company. Today from the management side, we have with us with Mr. Anand Desai, Managing Director; Mr. Gopal Agrawal, Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Amit Khurana, Chief Financial Officer; and Mr. Vishal Thakkar, Deputy Chief Financial Officer. With this, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Anand Desai for his opening comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, good evening, everyone, and a warm welcome to the Q1 FY '25 Earnings Call of Anupam Rasayan. I hope you all are doing well. Let me share a sectoral view followed by the updates for the quarter gone by. Agrochemical industry is facing a significant headwinds since last 1 year, largely due to the unwinding of the channel inventories. We anticipate this trend to persist until the end of H1 FY '25, after which we expect the demand to strengthen. Our consistent efforts to expand our pharma and polymer portfolio are beginning to pay off. As indicated in the previous earning call, in Q1 FY '25, our pharma and polymer segments have contributed to revenue in double digit at 15% and 10%, respectively. We expect this trend to continue through FY '25. This is a shift towards a more balanced portfolio. With higher contributions from the pharma and polymer, businesses orders well for sustainable growth going forward. Now let me highlight our financial performance for the quarter under review. Our consolidated operating revenue for the quarter stood at INR 254 crores, with a Y-o-Y degrowth of 34%. This degrowth on account of lower volume offtake in agrochemical segment. The EBITDA margin was at 23% in Q1 FY '25, lowered by over 5 percentage points on account of lower sales. With higher contribution from polymer and pharma business this year, coupled with ramp-up of the LOIs and Contracts, we expect our revenue growth to come back from H2 FY '25. Also, we expect all our plants to be commercialized this year. At Anupam Rasayan, sustainability is one of the key pillars of our business. Over the years, we have invested in multiple initiatives to reduce our environment footprint, including our recent decision to invest INR 59 crores in a hybrid power plant that combines solar and green energy generation with a combined capacity of 9.6 megawatts. This project is expected to save approximately INR 15 crores annually in annual cost. This investment along with our previous investments in renewable energy projects -- will ensure that 55% of the company's electricity consumption comes from green energy sources, and will take us closer to our goal of being energy net-zero by 2027. Coming back to the future perspective of the company, I would like to highlight that multiple drivers including ramp-up of volumes from LOIs and Contracts, pharma, polymer and fluorinated molecules will drive the growth for Anupam. This growth will be further supported by a revival of the agrochem segment for later half of the year. I would also like to mention that completion of the CapEx plans, which we had undertaken along with our existing capacity sufficient for our growth in the midterm. With this, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Gopal Agrawal, the Chief Executive Officer of our company to discuss the business update. Over to you, Gopal Bhai.

Thank you, Anand Bhai. Hello, and good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to our Q1 FY '25 earnings call. I will begin by briefly discussing business highlights first, and then I'll hand it over to Amit Bhai to cover the financial right. As mentioned by Anand Bhai, we are experiencing some headwinds in agrochem segment. However, pharma and polymer segments have been seeing a strong growth supported by our recently launched 15-plus new molecules. We expect high contribution from these segments as these molecule will start ramping up and 5-plus new molecule that are planned to be launched this year. Our investment in Tanfac, which provides us with the supply security for fluoridated agent, which are starting raw material for our fluorination chemistry have also started yielding results. We have been able to commercialize 12-plus molecule in last 1 year alone. And we'll also enter into multiple LOI securing long-term contracts, thereby ensuring paying us a more demand for us. This has also supported our growth in pharma and polymer segment. Further, on the business development side, I would like to inform you that our efforts in Japan and U.S. are yielding results. More particularly in Japan, we are experiencing strong traction, particularly for our fluoropolymers with significant support from our local business development team in the region. We anticipate that within next 2 to 3 years, approximately 1/3 of Anupam's sales will originate from Japan, with all business being secured through long-term contracts. Additionally, we have several new polymer products currently in our R&D that are targeted for supply in U.S. market as well. With this, to take you through the financial highlights, I would like to hand over the call to our CFO. Over to you, Amit Bhai.

Thank you, Gopal Bhai. Good evening, everyone. Let me take you through the financial highlights for the quarter, after which I will let Vishal Bhai, to discuss the same further. Starting with the CapEx front. As of 30th June 2024, we have already utilized INR 530 crores, out of the total planned CapEx of INR 670 crores. The balance CapEx would be incurred during the coming quarters. Our working capital remains stable in absolute terms, and we expect it to stabilize further by the end of this fiscal with improvements anticipated in FY '26. We are also focused on cost optimization and operational efficiency, which would not only have financial and commercial advantage, but also to help in achieving our ESG goals. Our strategic focus, coupled with our expansion plan position us well for long-term growth. With this, I hand over the floor to our Deputy CFO, Vishal Bhai, who will take you through the financials in detail.

Thank you, Amit Bhai. Hello, and good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining us here today. I would like to share some key performance highlights for the quarter ended 30th June 2024, and then we'll open the floor for question-and-answer session. Before I proceed, I hope you all have had a chance to go through the detailed presentation and the results submitted to the exchanges and uploaded on our website. Kindly note, our numbers for the quarter are on a consolidated basis, and they include Tanfac numbers as well. Let me first discuss on the consolidated highlights for the quarter ended June 30, 2024. Operating revenues for Q1 FY '25 was at INR 254 crores as compared to INR 386 crores in Q1 FY '24, a decline of 34% Y-o-Y. [Technical Difficulty] INR 59 crores in Q1 FY '25 as compared to INR 114 crores in Q1 FY '24. This would translate to an EBITDA margin of 23% for the quarter. Profit after tax was at INR 12 crores in Q1 FY '25 as compared to INR 52 crores in Q1 FY '24. Moving on to the stand-alone financials for the quarter ended 30 June 2024. Operating revenue for Q1 FY '25 was at INR 164 crores, compared to INR 289 crores in Q1 FY '24, down 43% Y-o-Y. EBITDA including other income was at INR 43 crores in Q1 FY '25 as compared to INR 88 crores in Q1 FY '24. This would translate to an EBITDA margin of 23% in this quarter. Profit after tax was that -- sorry, the EBITDA will be 25%. Profit tax at INR 1.4 crores in Q1 FY '25 as compared to INR 35 crores in Q1 FY '24. Our top 10 customers contributed about 77% of our total revenue. Now I will open the floor for any Q&A that you would like.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of S. Ramesh from Nirmal Bang Securities.

Can you hear me?

Yes we can.

So if you look at your current business mix and the expectation of a, the reversal of the deferral of orders, how much do you think would the reversal of the deferral of the orders, which are received first quarter will add to the second half numbers? And then on that, what is the additional revenue we can expect from the commercial operation of the new capacity and the booking of new orders. So there are 3 parts. One is how much is the incremental addition to the revenue in the second half, which you lost in the first quarter? Secondly is, what is the kind of additional revenue in terms of capacity? And third, what is the additional revenue from the new LOIs and Contract?

Sorry to interrupt you sir, your voice is not very clear. Can you please read the questions?

Yes, hold on. Let me use the handset. Hello, can you hear me now?

Yes.

So I have 3 parts to my question. One is in terms of the potential for addition to the second half revenue, how much would that addition be in rupees crores based on whatever revenue you have lost in the first quarter, because of order deferral? Second is what is the addition you can expect from the commissioning of the new capacity? And third is, how much is additional revenue you expect to book from the new LOIs and Contracts, which you will start delivering in the second half?

Okay. So Mr. Ramesh, let me answer this in a broad manner. See, if you look at it today, around [ few hundred cores ] should have been doing INR 80 crores to INR 100 crores more than what we have reported today on a stand-alone basis. And that is primarily on account of the deferral of the demand. So that is the number that you can expect in the second half of the year, which it will be spread over 2 quarters, one. Two, if you look at from our capacity, see capacity is going to come at various stages. So I don't want to talk about too much in terms of their number that how much would that add? It could be marginal for the year, but largely, it will be for the next year that you will see a large part of the revenue accruing from the new capacity as well. And third, on the LOIs and Contracts today, we estimate that around 20% to 25% of our this year's revenue should be from the LOIs and Contracts, which are commercialized over the last 1 to 2 years' time. So that's net-net with what we are trying to suggest.

So if you're looking at a ballpark INR 1,000 crores to INR 1,100 crores revenue for the year, you're saying that you will get about INR 250 crores from the new LOIs and Contracts in the second half, we are understanding correct?

LOIs and Contracts, I've talked about the whole year. Yes, largely being back-ended, but yes it is the whole year that I'm talking about, you're right.

So over FY '26 and '27, again on this base revenue, you have [indiscernible] the existing LOIs contracts and existing business. And then we have the new LOIs and Contracts. So what will be the addition to the FY '26, '27 revenue from the new contracts? And what will be the growth from the existing business?

Okay. If I understand what you're asking is that from the total LOIs and Contracts, what is the kind of number that we can expect over the next 2 years? Is that the question that you are suggesting?

Yes, exactly.

Okay. So let's talk about that. We are talking about around INR 250-odd crores here and then in the next...

Mr. Thakkar, your voice is breaking, sir, in between. Can you please check?

Okay. Okay. Am I more clear now?

Yes. Now you are clear, yes.

Okay. So what I was saying was that my number. So this year, we're looking at around about INR 250-odd crores. And we should be adding roughly around INR 200 crores each at least for the next 2 years is what our estimation would be.

Okay. And this is something which you are confident about even with the kind of headwinds you're facing in agrochemicals, so this is something that you can do, right, irrespective of that.

Yes. Yes. Because I will tell you 2 things. One is agrochemical is also there, but also please appreciate that a lot of my new contracts are of non-agro business as well, though it will come in the latter half of the next year [Technical Difficulty] will be coming in. So you're right. We are feeling confident and comfortable with these numbers, especially with the kind of indication and the conversation that we've had with that our [customer].

Okay. So if I just squeeze in one more thought on the balance sheet and your working capital. So incrementally, when you ramp up your production, are you going to maintain your debt at current levels, assuming that the working capital will go up for the additional revenue? And secondly, when do you see the reduction in the working capital in terms of number of days over the next 2 years?

So okay, let me -- I think it's the 2-year horizon is the right number to see, because that I will have a better visibility to talk about -- a better view to talk about. One, if you really look at it, large part of -- if you look -- today are sitting with a higher working capital. And to that extent, we believe that, that working at will be released over the next 2 years' time frame. And we don't expect any significant requirement of the external debt to finance this growth in terms of working capital because the additional working capital that will be required for additional sales would be more supported by the release of the working capital that is there today, and that is where I would say over next 2 to 3 years' time period. As we have been guiding in the past also, we would be targeting the working capital cycle to come back to the more numbers that we have been in the past around 2021 kind time frame. Those will be the number of days. And that is what our view for now.

[Operator Instructions]. The next question is from the line of Rohit Nagraj from Centrum Broking.

Sir, first question is by FY '21, again, slightly on a longer horizon, what could be the mix between agro and non-agro. And again, in terms of non-agro, what will be the mix between, say, pharma, polymers or any other new-age segments.

So Rohit, I'm also a bit of crystal gazing as you are, so we take it with that much of a thing. But if you really ask me, not -- crystal gazing is not the right word, I would say. But please understand, this is 2 years out. So I'm -- directionally, I'm giving you these numbers rather than taking it very, very specific to the numbers. Okay. I hope that is fair.

Absolutely, fair.

Okay. So then I would expect that pharma should be around about 20%, 25% of my revenue 15% to -- 10% to 15%, more towards 15% than 10%, but yes, that should be there. And personal care should be in the range of 10% to 12%. So if you look at it, and the balance should be the [advocate] is the number I would go with.

Fair enough. That gives broader sense.

Rohit after 2 years, please don't hold me with these numbers and say, "You are [indiscernible]."

No, no. Broader sense -- that's fair enough.

But directly, I'm saying that the polymer and pharma will contribute more and life sciences -- sorry, the personal care will remain around 10% to 12%.

Right. Got it. Got it. Sir, second question. Now given that we are ending with the INR 670 crores of CapEx this year, are we recalibrating the next year's CapEx given the kind of environment we are currently in. And I mean every single company is talking about, there has been new capacity additions happening in China, which is putting pressure in terms of incremental growth or volume just your thoughts on the same? And is there any competition coming particularly in some of our molecules or some of our user segments. And that can also lead to maybe the CapEx being recalibrated.

If you remember, that we are undertaking of INR 670 crores of CapEx. Now we are at the fag end of it. And we are confident that we will be completing this CapEx side. We don't see any reason for us to not complete this CapEx. So that's one part of it. And anyways, for the next year, we have not planned any new CapEx, because we have actually had enough CapEx for our near- to medium-term growth. So anyways, new CapEx was not planned and is not planned for the next year, any significant one. There may be some investments in solar -- or the wind and solar that we have talked about and also maybe a bit of repurposing of the plans. Other than that, there is no significant capacity addition that was planned. And hence, we don't need to recalibrate because there wasn't any in the first place. I hope that helps.

Yes, yes. And anything on the China competition front?

So I can see -- so for us, there is not much of it. But maybe to my end customer, there may be some bit of -- in few products that is really -- in specific, from my -- for my products to my customers, we don't see too much of that happening here.

Right. And one just last clarification. Again, I'm not going to call you for the exact numbers. But on the broader margins front incrementally, do we still hold to the range of maybe 25% to 27%, 28% EBITDA margins for the next leg of products?

Yes, you can take that. That's a fair assumption. I would go with that.

[Operator Instructions]. The next question is a follow-up question from S. Ramesh from Nirmal Bang Equities.

If you look at your fluorination chemistry, I know it overlaps 1 or 2 segments. So within the segment share you have discussed between agro and non-agro, where would the fluorination share of the overall revenue stand? And how does it move in the next 2 years? And broadly, I think it is possibly split between the Life Sciences and nonlife in the order book. So -- and incrementally, if you're looking at your margin guidance, margin guidance kind of does it capture the share of fluorine chemistry and the different segments you're doing like pharma and polymers. And with the understanding that there could be plus or minus 100 to 200 basis points difference in the margin. So if you can just put this in perspective, it will be useful.

Okay. So first, let me talk about this year. Fluorination is looking about 15% to static right now, but that would increase and end up around 20%, 25% of the revenue for [Technical Difficulty] we believe that it should end up around 30%, 35% in the next couple of years. That's when the new LOIs and Contracts also start coming in, new products commercialized also start ramping -- ramp-up fully, that's the kind of number we are looking at.

Hello? I'm not able to hear you.

Okay. I'll repeat myself. This quarter fluorination was around about 15-odd percent of my revenue. This year, we are looking at around 20% to 25% of my revenue coming from fluorination chemistry. We believe that -- and the traction that we are seeing by 2027, we should be looking at about 30% to 40% of our revenue coming to fluorinated products across various applications.

Understood. So now in terms of the supply chain with Tanfac, again 2 parts to this. One is how much of HF have you firmed up with Tanfac in terms of their CapEx plan to double their capacity? And does that give you enough visibility on the requirement for ramping up your business on the new orders over the next 5 years? Or will Tanfac have to invest further in terms of additional capacity? What is that -- and for Tanfac itself, what does it mean, because we don't have much visibility on Tanfac? So how...

Let me have the first thing. Today, with the CapEx that we have planned out for Tanfac, the capacity is sufficiently enough for any requirement that we will have over -- not near them, but even a little longer-term view also if you take, it would be sufficient for us and enough and more to be made available for the customers that we have been supplying to today as well. So I don't see that...

Sorry to interrupt, sir, Mr. Thakkar, actually voice is breaking. Do you want me to reconnect you, sir?

No. Is it better now?

Yes, yes.

I'm sorry, it is breaking.

I was saying here is that first, the Tanfac expansion will ensure that we have enough and more available for Anupam to consume as much as it needs for its own growth needs, first. Second, I believe that we will -- with the expanded capacity, Tanfac would be able to service the current customers as well as our growth need is what I'm saying.

Okay. So in terms of your fluorine-based products based on this HF. Overall, how does it change your margin ROC profile? Because -- if you're saying that the margins are going to be in this range or some products are actually going to be lower margin. So in terms of ROCE, how do we read that in terms of the asset turn, like if you take the INR 60, INR 70 crore CapEx, what is the asset turn you can expect on this new CapEx is commissioned? And is that going to be the increased lever for driving your ROCE improvement? How do you see that?

Okay. So first, I think on a blended basis, again, as I had suggested to Rohit also that it will be in the range that we have talked about, because there will be a blend here. There will be some products which will have a very high margin, but also there will be some products where there will be average margins. And on a more blended basis, we believe that the number that we are guiding should be achievable number one, right? But especially polymer would have a higher margin...

We have lost you.

Mr. Thakkar, we are unable to hear you sir. Ladies and gentlemen, please stay connected while we check the connection for Mr. Thakkar. [Technical Difficulty] Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for patiently holding the line for Mr. Thakkar has been connected. Over to you, sir.

Yes. So as I was saying that the margins will be on the blended basis fairly the similar range that we have talked about, because on polymers or on few segments where it will be a little higher margins, especially with the fluorinated products, polymer products. And for the [Technical Difficulty]. Now if you come to the ROCE and asset utilization, if you look at the new CapEx that we are doing, that should give you a revenue of over INR 1,100 crores to INR 1,200 crores. And hence, if you see the total capital asset we have created, we should be having a blended asset turn of over 1.5 times. And [indiscernible] top line that we are talking about, we should be having a very healthy ROCE that we can expect here.

Yes, understood. So just have one last clarification. So this INR 1,100 crores to INR 1,200 crores and this 1.5 of asset turn, by when would you be able to achieve this?

That will be -- so as I mentioned to your point is it should be -- that is the number where we will take around INR 2,000 to INR 3,000 crores of total revenue, right? Because current asset also -- current asset [indiscernible] also helps fair -- capacity to grow. So I would not want to crack the number exactly [Technical Difficulty] I'm just saying this is how I would say.

Sir, but your voice is breaking a lot. We are unable to hear anything from your side?

Fine, I guess, I can -- this is Gopal here. I can take some of the questions. I may not maybe repeat on behalf of Vishal.

Gopal Bhai, he was saying that he cannot put a time line, but probably, this is the guidance you are giving in terms of incremental revenue from the new CapEx on the asset turn. So just to get in terms of whether it will be possible by '27 or '28, because if you look at the run rate of INR 200 crores, INR 250 crores every year, it looks like it will take 3 to 4 years. So would it be realistic to expect this additional revenue from the new LOIs and the new CapEx by '27 or would it be more like '28? So that will give us a sense in terms of by when you can achieve that blended asset turn and improvement in ROCE, that was the basic spirit behind my question.

Understand that. I think with the session of the current year, I think as you have seen is, we have been riding towards the growth of 25%, 30%. So with that in mind, I guess we should be able to kind of see that number in the period you are mentioning in some of around that.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Ayush Chaturvedi from Axis Capital.

Firstly, if you could provide a breakup of exports in domestic business in this quarter. That will be very helpful. And also, I would like to understand other than the deferment in the agri business that we've had, what is the impact or any sort of sense we can get from how much of deferment can we expect in the rest of the year on other businesses?

Okay. So I would not want -- see, I can give you the numbers in the Q1 in terms of split -- domestic to export. But you would also understand that these are not the representative on, especially with the prepayment of the volume that we have talked about, one. Okay. And if you look at the deferment, as we had mentioned earlier, that we would be around INR 80 crores, INR 100 crores of deferment, which we expect to come by the year-end. So in this year, we would be able to recoup that demand that we have not had in the first half -- first quarter and first half, right? And yes, go ahead, please.

Yes. So again, like I said, I would like to understand how much of this is deferment coming from the agri portfolio?

Largely, it is agri. Largely, it is agri, very limited because that's where my large part of my contractor demand comes from. If you look at personal care has fairly been stable. Polymer and other products have also been stable. So a large part of it is agri...

All right. So I mean -- so could we expect a very strong resurgence in the agri, in the latter half of the year like you've been mentioning. So what sort of -- so you would have some sense of how much of it would start coming back?

So let me answer it in a very simple manner. But my revenue that I am hoping for the year will be equal or [high end of] delivered in the past year. So we believe there will be a growth in this year is what we are expecting. It will be marginal [Technical Difficulty] the feedback that we have got from the customers and their plans.

[Operator Instructions]. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference to the management for closing comments.

So thank you, everyone, for your participation and your queries. We hope we have been able to answer most of your queries. In case we have any -- addressing any of your queries, kindly reach out to our IR partner, Ernst & Young, and we will be happy to connect offline to answer those questions. Thank you.

On behalf of Anupam Rasayan India Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.