Ashiana Housing Limited (523716) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day. And welcome to Ashiana Housing Limited Q1 FY '21 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note, this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Gaurav Sud from Kanav Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Yes. Thanks, moderator. Welcome, everyone. And thanks for joining this Q1 FY '21 earnings call for Ashiana Housing Limited. I hope all of you are keeping well in this stressful time and staying safe. The results and investor update have been mailed to you and it's also available on the stock exchange. In case anyone does not have a copy of the press release, please do write to us. We will be happy to send it over to you. To take us through the results of this quarter and answer your questions, we have today with us Mr. Varun Gupta, whole-time Director of the company; and Mr. Vikash Dugar, who is the CFO. We will be starting the call with a brief overview of the company's performance and then we will follow up with a Q&A session. I would like to remind you all that everything said on this call that reflects any outlook for the future, which can be construed as a forward-looking statement, must be viewed in conjunction with the uncertainties and risks that they face. These uncertainties and risks are included but not limited to what we have mentioned in the prospectus filed with SEBI and subsequent annual reports, which you will find on our website. With that said, I now turn over the call to Mr. Vikash Dugar. Over to you, Vikash.

Thank you, Gaurav. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us to discuss performance of the first quarter of FY '21 of Ashiana Housing. I extend a warm welcome to all of you. Area booked recorded in Q1 FY '21 was 0.81 lakhs square foot as compared to 3.5 lakhs square foot in quarter 1 FY '20. The sales were at 4.14 lakhs square foot in the previous quarter. The fall in booking in comparison to the previous quarter was largely attributable to the lockdown implemented due to the spread of COVID-19 pandemic. As discussed in the last quarter update, we were expecting approx 50 to 55 cancellations in Ashiana Amantran from initial bookings we had received in last quarter. Documentation regarding cancellation of 41 units, that is, around 0.72 lakhs square foot in Ashiana Amantran, is pending completion in the system, and those cancelations will be recorded in second quarter of FY '21. Bookings have further recovered from July 2020 onwards, and we expect second quarter to be substantially better than the first quarter. We handed over 0.85 lakhs square foot in quarter 1 FY '21, out of which 0.03 lakhs square foot was delivered in partnerships. This was against a delivery of 1.55 lakhs square feet in quarter 1 of FY '20. Revenue recognized from completed projects was INR 25.19 crore versus INR 50.46 crore in Q1 FY '20. Revenue recognized from completed projects was INR 80.37 crores in Q4 FY '20. Total comprehensive income, that is, TCI, was negative at INR 2.30 crores vis-à-vis positive INR 8.63 crores in Q4 FY '20. Pretax operating cash flows were positive at INR 10.56 crores versus positive INR 5.14 crores in the previous quarter. Equivalent area constructed was 1.21 lakhs square foot versus 3.27 lakhs square foot in the previous quarter and was 2.14 lakhs square feet in quarter 1 FY '20. The construction was hampered in Q1 FY '21 due to lockdown, and this might push the delivery dates of our projects, but we intend to ramp up construction in the months to come. On this note, I would like to conclude my remarks. We will now be happy to discuss any questions or suggestions that you may have.

Thank you, sir. Sir, shall we begin the question-and-answer session.

Yes, please.

[Operator Instructions] We have our first question from the line of Darshan Shah from White Equity.

My question is linked to maintenance segment for the FY '20. We have seen a decline in gross margin in maintenance segment to 22% in FY '20. Is there any one-off in that?

Darshan, maintenance segment continues -- on a net basis, I don't think we will generally be profitable in the maintenance segment, overall. It's more or less, on a net profit basis, we end up being no profit, no loss in a general environment, a very slim profit. I think that will continue. Some decline in the gross profits last year, I think, were due to one-off items that happened last year. And we can give more detail later on, if you write to us, and give more color on the one-off items that happened last year. Vikash ji, would you want to elaborate a little bit right now some of the one-off items that we had in financial year 2020 in maintenance?

So on a rotational basis, some of the older projects, we do carry out certain activities like painting and certain civil work over a period of time as and when the projects get old. And the expenses regarding that get booked. So as and when, during the period, there is a significant impact of these, there might be an impact on the margins. And since it's a relatively smaller size balance sheet, smaller size entity, the impact can be significant at times. So that's what the reason could be.

Okay. And my next question is on receivables. So around 50% of receivables are outstanding for more than 6 months. It was a similar case even in last year. So can you just throw some light on that?

Again, the receivables pertaining to the maintenance segment, particularly there are receivables, which are pertaining...

Sorry to interrupt. It's not pertaining to maintenance, it's overall receivables.

Okay. So overall receivables, as you know, Darshan, some of them I wouldn't be able to add color as to what's been the movement. But receivables do keep moving between 6 months, and some of them move upwards, and some receivables get into 6 months. Receivables more than 6 months pertain to 2 kinds of receivables for the company, in general. One, which is in the maintenance segment, and that particularly pertains to not staying, not paying customers. So people who have taken -- handed -- flats have been handed over to them, but they have not occupied. And since they've not occupied, they do not pay maintenance for a bit and recovery takes usually longer than it would take from a customer who is occupying the unit. And the second, more than 6 months customers, like, generally people -- it's the last, let's say, 4%, 5%, 10% of a flat where we have issued possession letters to customers and they have not taken handing over of the flat. That's the other things pertain to. And that, again, changes time to time, right? I don't have a specific color or there is nothing that, as a management, we are alarmed about.

Yes. And the spread also is across a couple of projects. It's quite spread across a number of projects. So there -- even with any particular location or any particular project where that concern is there. So more in the normal course, which will gradually get recovered.

[Operator Instructions] We have next question from the line of V. P. Rajesh from Banyan Capital.

So Varun, my question was, this footnote about 71,566, so one should expect that this will show up in Q2 as the cancellations? Is that the right way to think about it?

Correct. That's the right way to think about it. We had given an estimate that we were expecting cancellations in Ashiana Amantran when we get the annual call because that project had just concluded launch before lockdown began. Actually, some of the units were concluded for sale during the lockdown. And then we started seeing that some of the -- some of those bookings will cancel as expected. And those expectations have come around, but paperwork -- we don't record cancellations until certain paperwork is completed in real estate. We don't record bookings also till a certain amount of paperwork is completed. So that paperwork got into July. So we just thought that we'll clarify on that.

Yes, I remember you mentioning it on the last call. So what is the trend you are seeing now? Are those units getting picked up by buyers or can you just give us some color on that?

No. So in Ashiana Amantran, new bookings have been good. July was a good month. August continues to be a good month. Not just Ashiana Amantran where that was good, but last quarter, we had seen bookings across projects, albeit slow. July has been a good month across the board. And we are seeing -- overall traction in sales is generally good in second quarter.

I see. And what happened in THR this particular quarter that suddenly we were able to -- are we done with that project? Or that's still...

No, we have still a few units left. There's, again, very large units, we were able to transact 2 units there. So therefore, that happened. Again, it will keep coming -- like it was one person who took up 2 units. So -- again -- but very limited inventory left there now. I think we have about 7-odd units left in that project.

I see. And the last question. Hello?

I'm unable to hear you, V.P.

Sorry, my question is what is the prognosis on Town?

Ashiana Town, again, July has been good; August continues to be good. I think this year, we'll have an overall better year in Town than last year.

We have next question from the line of Manasvi Shah from ICICI Prudential AMC.

Congratulations on a good set of cash flows reported. Sir, so my question was on the cash flows, in particular. Do you expect that this run rate continues because -- while the collections are very healthy, obviously, there is not much construction which has happened this quarter? So what is the outlook on both collections and construction in the coming quarters?

So in the coming quarter, construction and collections both are expected to ramp up, Manasvi. So construction has ramped up, collection also ramped up in July. But the ramp-up in construction in July was more than collections. So July was not as good. We expect August and September to, again, throw positive cash flows. And we expect the cash situation in the company to improve, overall. If not, second quarter, third quarter definitely because most of the cash flows for the customer -- for us is locked in from previous year sales. And as I said, except for Ashiana Amantran, there has not been cancellations much anywhere. And Amantran was also expected because it was in the launch phase and, obviously, bookings there again. I'm overall optimistic on the cash flow front.

Okay. And sir, given that bookings are now improving in July and then in August, are you looking to launch any new phases?

If I -- I couldn't hear you clearly, but what I understand was, if -- you asked, are you planning to launch any more phases during the year?

Yes.

Yes, we are launching. So we are in the -- we are already in the process of launching Vrinda Gardens Phase 5. And in Ashiana Nirmay Phase 3, we had 2 blocks. And even though we were constructing both, we had only launched 1 block for sale earlier. And the second block for sale is also getting launched in this quarter. And we have more phases in other projects planned for launch in the second half of the year as well.

So in terms of, say, lakhs or million square feet, could you give some number?

Can you say that again, ma'am?

In terms of lakh or million square feet, could you give a probable number?

For sales? For launches?

For launches -- for the launches?

I think we should launch about 1 million square foot for sale this year.

We have next question from the line of [ Vivek Joshi ], Investor.

Yes. I just had a question that in these 3 months, did you have any significant people who were due to pay for construction and stuff like that and they didn't pay? Or was that like not significant?

No, there was a collection, sir, in the first quarter. A lot of that also had to do with procedural issues at banks, at -- in the home loan processing, visiting projects, [ confirmed ] construction happened and processing files and paperwork, and in some cities, lockdown being announced by state governments and that also delaying certain things. So there has been a slight bit of concern. They are, again, overall -- but -- let me put it this way, we are seeing a little bit delay in payments, but we are not concerned about credit of the payments and whether the payments will be received as of now in general. That's the general sense. August is an important month where things need to get resolved, and we are closely tracking how things go. And most of our collections for any month is anyways back-ended to the second half of the month. We'll get more color as we go along. But things have -- are far more normal than the causes and concern that we probably had, let's say, at the beginning of the year.

We have next question from the line of [ Harsh Behera ], Investor.

My question is -- I have 2 questions. The first one is about EMI schemes. Has the company launched any new EMI scheme like Godrej recently launched a 10:90 EMI scheme?

Okay. So there are two kind of different schemes. One, Godrej has launched a 10:90 scheme, where it's not an EMI scheme, where you pay effectively 10% now and 90% later. We haven't done a 10:90 scheme or any scheme of that sort. We always had some EMI-sharing schemes, which we continue to do, where we pay EMIs on behalf of the buyer for a certain time frame or a portion of the EMI for a certain time frame, which continue. They are not necessarily any new schemes, let me put this way. That is, we haven't done anything new. And we typically do not like to delay our cash flows. So we are not -- we are of the -- generally of the view, I'd rather have the cash flows early and give a discount to the customer for getting earlier payment than he would have usually made. That's our typical view to have. We are not very comfortable launching schemes of the nature of 10% now and 90% at possession.

Okay. My next question is about the senior citizen housing project that you had announced, like, you are looking for something in Chennai. Did you finalize something in Chennai?

No. We haven't been able to conclude on our senior living transaction in the last 3, 4 months. We continue to be scouting right now. We are in talks for a lot, but we have not been able to conclude anything.

[Operator Instructions] We have next question from the line of Priyank Sanghavi from 5Y.

Can you tell what's the current rental yield in the Bhiwadi area for the units that we help leasing out? And the difference -- the decrease in interest rates and -- is that creating some -- I mean is that -- the difference between rental yield and the post-tax housing loan rate, that decrease, does that move any balance and help us in moving some customers from rent to buy as you said something in the last call?

So Priyank, yes, so the rental yields in Bhiwadi and/or most places where we are would be approximately 3%, 50 bps here or 50 bps more. But in general, it will hover around 3% rental yield in most of our projects. And yes, the overall compression in interest rates, I think, is absolutely making a difference. And that should -- it should continue, according to me. Therefore, the question is July was a good month and the question that we have always is whether it was a pent-up demand month of the last 4 months, which is coming into a month, in general? Or is it more to do with the fact that with compression in interest rates, properties has become a lot more affordable and more attractive also place-to-place put money in? I -- we would know over a period of time, but my sense right now is that the compression in interest rates is overall -- the tendency to buy over rent, it's tilting more and more consumers in that favor that they'd buy than that.

Perfect. Yes, it will take time for the idea to spread around the compulsive compression. And what's the rental yield in Jaipur?

Again, similar, Priyank, about 3%, 50 bps here or there.

Okay. Fine. My last question is about -- how's the economic activity in the Bhiwadi and Jaipur area?

So again, our also information is very, sort of, colored and comes in a little bit from the media, some of the things that you see, very little data to support it as compared to others. But our first sense is that it's coming back to normal in most sectors. In Jaipur, where tourism forms a large part of the economy, that remains a concern. Fortunately, most of the tourist season is in the winter of the year, and we'll get a little bit more deeper sense as to what's the impact over there. But the tourism sector there and the jewelry sector also, which is a large driver of that economy there, are constrained. But outside of that, economic activity in terms of trade, in terms of industry, in terms of IT and -- a little bit of IT that there is seems overall okay. And also, Bhiwadi, again, with automobile industry coming back to life in July, which Bhiwadi manufacturing is very heavily dependent on, things seem to be coming back to normal over there as well.

We have next question from the line of Abhishek Shah from Valcore Capital.

Am I audible?

Yes, Abhishek, you're clearly audible.

So my question is actually on the sales side. It's more of a broader question to understand how we think, a strategy of not involving real estate agents and having an in-house sales team. I'm just trying to understand your thoughts on that. And the second is -- adding on to this question is, how do we create brand visibility? Because for other real estate developers, you generally have these real estate agents who would, sort of, get volumes and create that brand visibility.

Okay. So one, for us, our choice of selling directly came in more out of compulsion and less out of choice early on in our journey in Bhiwadi because there were no real estate agents in Bhiwadi and people in NCR. It wasn't really worthwhile for an agent that's in Gurgaon to sell Bhiwadi at that point in time because the time, effort and its cost and the remuneration he would have gotten in Bhiwadi wasn't just making sense. So the first reason we took up direct sales was more out of default and market situation rather by choice. But as we evolved, we became more and more capable and selling directly, generating leads directly, generating leads through referrals and word-of-mouth and online and digital marketing. And therefore, it's just worked for us, we kept at it. And then it became -- we also were able to control the information going to the consumer far better and more significantly [ it's going as per plan ]. That said, we have started experimenting working with channel partners and real estate agents. The first experiment is going on in Gurgaon at this point of time, where we have started engaging with channel partners over the last 6 months. Once we learn how to engage with them, then we might want to use them otherwise. But even in Gurgaon, engaging with channel partners, they are more, let's say, as partners who are generating leads and are also working with clients, but a large part of the sales process is controlled and conducted by an in-house team of Ashiana, which is trained, which understands Ashiana's projects, thought processes, what brand stands for, what we want to do, and is working with the channel partner team -- with the channel partners at large and creating a sort of a more collaborative thinking than, sort of, a substitution thinking. So that's the strategy we have evolved and learned and seen other developers do that successfully. So we're experimenting with that and let's see how that goes before we take that to other places.

So basically, even in the long run, you would expect still a major, major chunk of our revenue still coming from our in-house team rather than outside partners as well?

Yes. Because the large part of our sales continues to be driven by referrals and word-of-mouth and sort of relationships that we have with our existing customers, who then refer to friends and families and then through that sale process. So that remains a very large part of our DNA.

Got it. No, sir, the only reason I was asking you this was that generally in downtimes like these or maybe what we've been having in the last 3 years, it's generally those agents who could do that push-marketing for us. So that's where I was coming from. Or are we having any other alternative in-house strategy where we could do that push to probably sell more...

So last year was a growth year in sales for us. We had struggled 3 years before that. And we got good sales last year without any really channel partner support. So I don't think that's necessarily it. I think even channel partners who are able to sell, they're able to sell established brands in a micro market. I don't think that -- so in that situation, our ability to build brands based on our product and service and quality and differentiation of our products and services is going to be important for even channel partners to be able to sell us. It's not -- I don't think the push of the channel partners is as critical as it is. And also from a longer-term perspective, I also would like to -- when we're looking with channel partners, one clear thing is that if you want the channel partners for us to be successful, we have to build a brand which is easier for channel partners to sell. I think that's where our key would be, and we are working on that in Gurgaon. And let's see how that goes and then we'll take it from there. I think that's what I would suggest or that's what we think, let me put it this way.

We have next question from the line of Himanshu Upadhyay from PGIM India.

Yes, I had one question on portfolio augmentation, okay. And how is it looking? Means new deals and new -- how much time will it take further? And do you think -- last time when we were talking, you stated that there are deals where prices are down, but we are thinking and looking at it. Do you think waiting from hereon also makes sense? Means, the much better deals may come up and hence we would like to wait from hereon also? Or what is your thought process right now? And how are you looking at things in the larger market like -- yes.

Sure. Two, three things on that. One, our project in Pune now seems to be clearing a hurdle, which was critical. We had a land there, which was pending zone conversion. So there, zone conversion orders have come in, but a larger play on -- of building plan approvals and environmental clearances remain there. But I would say those are smaller hurdles to cross than zone conversions. Zone conversion was a much bigger hurdle to cross, which took a lot of time for us after even there was an MoU. So in that portfolio, I'm hoping that, that project will be now definitely up for launch in the next 12 to 15 months and we are more clearly seeing light there going forward. So that was one part of portfolio from an operating perspective which was important to us and was testing our patience also a little bit if that's the way to put it. And on the other transactions that we are evaluating and looking at, I think a larger part of our caution was coming less from whether we get a better deal tomorrow. More it was worrying how certain are our cash flows looking in the future that we take our transactions today and then it becomes a problem because we are stuck in future cash flows from our end. On that front, over the last 4 months, we have gotten a lot more certainty. So that's been one good thing. Second bit has been, for certain transactions, we need equity financing at the project level and those, so there were financial partners also we were talking to as to their view in the market and people had become a little bit more cautious, if that's the way to put it. I think those hurdles are clearing up, and we should start looking to put things together on that side of things. Overall -- so we are not going to wait for transactions to become nicer and sweeter as we go forward. I think we are going to be more that, a, is our cash flows looking good, which currently is the sense. And the second thing is, does this deal make sense fundamentally to us in terms of -- after our estimate of a reasonable sales price to sell the site where we think the market can absorb it and the costs that would take to build? Is there enough margins left on it that it makes a fundamental sense of a base case return scenario? If that does, we will go ahead with that transaction instead of saying, I'm getting this for INR 100 today and might get this for INR 80 tomorrow, let's wait. I don't think we will go into that bottom fishing. That's not going to be our attitude.

Okay. And just on this bit only. One of the things is the yields price have been more stagnant in many micro markets. But this sales velocities have dropped out, okay? And in this environment, when you are purchasing land, how are you planning? So earlier when we used to hear from most real estate players was, we take a current selling price and do 3-year or a 5-year, we'll be able to sell it out, and what type of IRR if I buy at this price was the phenomenon, okay? So how would -- what would be your basic assumptions of both sales price and -- again, how much can you sell would be dependent on how large land area is, is that correct?

So let me put it this way. Those are the assumptions we have to make when we buy a project at any point of time, okay? Sometimes you've got those assumptions right, sometimes you've got those assumptions wrong. But the fundamental thing is you are, at the end of the day, estimating as to these volume of units, can you sell at a particular price in a given market environment, okay? Different micro markets are in different micro market environments. But as I said, last year, we were able to sell well, particularly, in new launches because we were able to -- I have a belief that there is a combination of 4 things that have to work: product, price, location and developer, okay? When this combination is right for any particular land or a project in a particular market context, things will work in any market, but it has to be right for that context. And we got those right in projects which we launched last year and, therefore, success. So any new projects that we are looking at, we have to get this right. Given our context of a developer, any market have the right product at the right price in the right location. And that will defer -- differ in market to market. And those assumptions, we will get right sometimes, we will get wrong sometimes. And the hope is that we get them right 80% of the time, and then we are more or less okay. But that's where we are. I would like to say that as a management, our assumptions are generally reasonably conservative, yes. But that's again a very subjective view.

No, perfectly fine. But just a -- would you be -- still the assumptions majorly work for you would be at the constant selling price -- or the constant -- the current market price would be the based assumption with which you would be working? Or do you think it will be...

I would -- we would work with -- again, a market price -- one thing is to come from a -- see, market price is for a product. So I might go with a view that I'll change the product. So my per-square-foot price might remain the same, but my ticket size might reduce or I might have a view that I'll reduce the -- I'll keep the ticket size the same and reduce the per-square-foot price and give a bigger flat. There could be combinations of those thinking. So as I said, we have to get the right price, product, location, developer combination in a particular market context. And in Jaipur, let's say, the example that is there, we launched 2 projects, one, Ashiana Daksh and Ashiana Amantran. Ashiana Amantran, we launched bigger flats at a higher per-square-foot price, and we have sold well there as well. But it was in a particular location with a particular context. Ashiana Daksh was a lower per-square-foot price with a smaller size and we sold well there as well, again, in a particular context. That project sold better than Ashiana Amantran, but I'm okay with both. I am not looking for having a superlative launch. I'm okay with having a basic threshold of launch where we're going and selling the rest over the period of the project. And that -- I'm perfectly okay with what happened. So again, these thinking -- let me put it this way, I can't give a straight-jacketed thinking this is the only way we are thinking. But the context I'm giving you, and we make assumptions in that context.

Okay. Okay. One last question. On this -- we are seeing a number of stops and starts, okay? How are they impacting our projects? And do you think the cash flows or the receivables would remain constrained, even Q2, Q3 because of lesser work done means lesser amount of bills you can raise to get...

You're talking about the lockdown-related stops and starts?

Yes, yes, yes. How that is impacting our project.

Okay. So fortunately, Rajasthan has not had a second lockdown, okay? So...

Jamshedpur?

So there -- Jamshedpur has had second lockdown, but now they have allowed mostly in-situ construction and our construction continues to be more or less at pace. We've been able to resolve it. Chennai also, we've been able to resolve it, again, mostly in-situ construction. Right now, again, unless and until a longest, largest lockdown comes in place, I don't see a challenge. And my personal view has become that another serious problematic lockdown is not really in the offering within the states that we are working, wherever I have context. I don't think that's going to happen to a larger degree from just an economic compulsion perspective. And that's my view. But if they happen, I don't know what happens. Right now I don't see a problem in construction in any of our sites at this moment in time.

What would be your...

Sir, I'm sorry to interrupt. Would you like to come back in the question queue? We have next question from the line of Rohan Advant from Multi-Act.

Most of my questions have been answered. Just wanted to check if you foresee any demand traction owing to COVID, like, say, work-from-home option makes Bhiwadi a better market than before for someone living in Gurgaon. Or for -- is that true for any other market that we cater to? That was my first question. Secondly, when you said that you will launch 1 million square feet this year, does that include anything from Kolkata and Pune? Yes, those were the 2 questions.

I'll think the first -- I'll take the second question first. The 1 million square foot will not include anything from Kolkata and Pune. We are basically looking to launch Vrinda Gardens Phase 5, another building in Ashiana Nirmay, a phase in Ashiana Shubham at Chennai, a phase in Ashiana Daksh and a phase in Ashiana Umang extension. And I gave an estimate of 1 million, so it might be a little lesser than that. Maybe at 750,000 to 1 million square foot, somewhere between those 2. And we're not looking to launch. This does not include Kolkata and Pune, which will be on top. I think that there, COVID has definitely led to a certain delay, and I said now -- Pune, we are looking at 12 to 15 months from now. Calcutta, I can't give an estimate on, because there, again, the government offices have -- really, really, not moving anything because of COVID at this moment, and there's nothing moving in Calcutta. So that's an answer to the second question. On the first question of demand changes. See, again, it's difficult to pinpoint what is demand really being driven by. It could be lower interest rates. It could be pent-up demand. It could be COVID-induced work-from-home and locations becoming lesser important in terms of the distance from the workplace. I'm not sure exactly what's happening on that front. But as I said, July was good and Bhiwadi also did well, overall, in that context. The only other, sort of, thing that I heard, and again, it's difficult to substantiate, but we are seeing some, sort of, demand, let's say, particularly, in Jaipur, whereby are people whose parents were living in independent homes in Jaipur and the children who are working, let's say, in Bombay or Delhi or Gurgaon or Bangalore and suddenly because of COVID, they started thinking that their parents should live in probably a gated community, which is more secure where daily needs are usually taken care of and they have some sort of community support. That was in integration that -- I think that it is also happening because of COVID. But again, very thin data points to see. But I see work-from-home making -- COVID catalyzing home demand for the kind of development that we do and in the kind of locations that we do. We expect COVID and lockdown to induce long-term positive demand for this. But again, very little data as of now to substantiate.

We have next question from the line of Arpit Ranka from Kovil Investments.

So I have a couple of questions. Firstly, in U.S., you had particularly, say, higher instances of infection in senior living or senior care homes. In India, in the projects that we have, let's say, Chennai or some cases, did you see any relatively higher infection?

No. We haven't seen instances of higher infection, Arpit.

It is good to hear. I mean because -- I mean we are in a very nascent stage of developing this concept, so you don't want it resume. So I just wanted to clarify that, that...

Yes. So I would always give one context of that, Arpit, just to clarify. Again in the U.S., where you are seeing more instances or -- abroad, if that is not U.S., but abroad where you're seeing more instances of in-care -- senior care facilities of more COVID, they seem to be more in what you would call it assisted care centers where people are generally, a, older; b, live in communities, which are more integrated in the sense that they are not independent homes. You have sort of a room to yourself and share a common area. And they're not separate apartments that way. The ones which are more separate apartments and where there are younger communities are more independent senior living communities. In our senior living communities, that's not [indiscernible]. So our senior living communities are more independent senior living communities. We have a very small fraction, very, very small fraction of our total population, which is an assisted care in Ashiana. So I think that also makes a difference as to the spread of the infection.

Yes. Actually, I've visited some of them and you generally end up running into very active people there. So I just wanted to clarify, given that we would not get to know the situation as it is today, so it's good that you clarified. And the second question is a combination of 2. See, one, you said last 2 months that you've again gotten sales velocity going up. Has it come at a sacrifice of realizations? Or do you think we've broadly been able to maintain the realizations?

No. We've been able to maintain realizations. There's been no additional discounts.

No discounting, nothing?

Nothing, nothing, nothing that is any significantly different.

Okay. Great. So on the sales velocity. So this is more, I presume, wherein -- so let's say, unemployment is on the rise and there's uncertainty around wages or wage hikes or something. Now when you -- so today, you may have moratorium, but let's say, by December, moratorium is not -- no more an option, and existing units or unit owners put up some of these units for resale, do you think that may kind of -- is this something that bothers you? It's not necessary in terms of volumes, but in terms of say distress sales creating pressure on pricing or stuff like that? Or do you think...

That problem of distress sales creating a problem has already been happening in Bhiwadi, okay? And that has been one of the reasons for sluggish sales in Ashiana Town. And we had to factor in a price discount, and therefore, Ashiana Town sales realizations have compressed over the last 3, 4 years. So not -- nothing really significant in the last 3, 4 months, but it did compress earlier, and that was a problem. In case we see retail units coming up because of stress, it would create a concern depending on the number of units such come on board. Right now -- so overall, the situation on ground does not seem as grim as it is. So in Jaipur, let's say, we were doing the Vrinda Gardens phase launch, and we had this target of corporates that we wanted to hit where we know we have existing customers, where we could get references, and therefore, we can get bookings. They have either people owning properties with us, it's living on rent or both. And we had a list of 20 sort of companies that we should look at. And out of those 20 companies, only 2 companies had either a salary cut or layoffs. 18 companies had no salary cuts, no layoffs. They may not have increased pay, but there's no salary cuts and no layoffs. Both those companies which were there were both hospitality companies. And hotels, you naturally understood. So I think the overall -- more the information I get from ground, the challenge is lesser than what we think it is. That's my overall...

No. That certainly helps. And just one final question on -- so let's say, Jan 2020, right? And there's more qualitative side to it than just quantitative. 2025, you had a certain aspiration or a vision for the company. And now you've had a good, let's say, 5, 6 months to process this event, which is huge in what it can imply. How has that vision changed for you? Let's say, 2025, what qualitatively has changed for you or even quantitatively? Would you kind of put numbers to it? I broadly want to get a glimpse into how you're thinking about it.

Yes. There has been no -- see, quantitative changes, we were hit over a difficult time or anyways 3, 4 years, then we got a good 12-month run and then this came in. So let me put this way. Quantitatively, we've stopped thinking so much about the vision on a quantitative basis, in general, with COVID or without COVID. On a qualitative basis, I think our purpose of creating lifestyle and communities which are vibrant, where we are able to deeply impact people's lives positively by impacting how they live, how they form relationships, how they grow up, how they live their day-to-day lives, how their family interactions are, what are their friends like, what kind of things do they celebrate? And all that, that we think we can do as a home builder. I think that aspiration and vision continues that we want to positively impact lives of people in ways we didn't expect that we could also. And that purpose continues. COVID has actually just emboldened that thought with a view -- and so one of our anti-real estate views or anti-common consensus views has been that the product is more important than the location in real estate. And people are willing to pay for lifestyle and communities that one builds, even though they live further away. I think COVID will just probably enhance that perspective that I'd rather live in a better community even if its 10 kilometers further away. And work-from-home probably will create a catalyst for that also if -- let's say, I don't think a 6-day work from home will continue or a 5-day, but a situation where people will work 2 to 3 days a week from home and come to office 2 to 3 days a week is something that I think will -- can become permanent in nature for a large part of the working community. And there, I think, COVID will probably enhance the value for our projects, and we want to continue to live that purpose of giving a great lifestyle to people.

We have next question from the line of Ruchak Mehta from Sanyam Capital.

My question is more regarding the future projects and the land available for future development, to be specific, what you've shared in Slide #24 and 25 of the presentation. So if I look at it, they look largely skewed towards Bhiwadi, even land which is available as well as the future projects in percentage terms if I was to look at it. So is that something as per plan? Because if we look at the last few quarters or even couple years, we've been finding good response from other markets like Jaipur, especially or other places. So just wanted to understand, is that something that you would like to correct as a balance? Or this is something as per plan that we are going ahead with?

So we would like to correct that because if you see most of the Bhiwadi land came in -- or all of it came in pre end of -- pre-December 2013, okay? And we have not deployed any additional capital in Bhiwadi since then, and we don't plan to deploy any further land there. But the pace of -- the correction of this will be dependent on the pace at which Bhiwadi sells and consumes this. So I think -- so therefore, this sort of skew will continue for a bit according to me as it corrects over a period of time.

Okay. Okay. But do you foresee that could kind of restrict our ability to grow in other markets what otherwise we could have done?

It has already restricted our -- it has already restricted some of our growth by -- with capital being allocated in one place and not sort of creating desired returns, it does create a drag on the balance sheet. And it is what it is, but it is correcting. There is -- to me, in Bhiwadi, there is no other way to monetize this other than that sell it over a period of time. And sales, fortunately, has been improving, and we are getting a lot of our capital out. And I would say it's a 3- to 4-year process where capital gets freed up here and gets deployed elsewhere and growth sort of comes back on track in a way that we would like. And that process sort of continues. We've been working at it. We've been going through details what's the kind of capital we need on other locations to grow, what's the -- we want to get back to return on average net worth in the teens and to get to how we need to allocate capital. That's been going on. And our balance sheet moving away from Bhiwadi is important in that role to play. We see that -- but I think the future looks a lot more brighter today than it looked 3 years ago.

We have next question from the line of [ Raj Shekhar ], Investor.

I think my questions are already answered. I think I was also very keen to understand about the Bhiwadi game plan because certainly majority stuff there doesn't sell, but you have already answered it. Thank you very much for that.

We have next question from the line of [ Avadhut Joshi ] from [ Newberry Capitals ].

Hello? Yes. Sir, I just want to know about the new projects which will be launching in Q4 FY '21, it is Shubham, and Q1 FY '22, Vrinda Garden Phase 3b. The expected completion time, are we on the track or will there be any delay in these projects?

Vrinda Garden Phase 3b in terms of completion?

Yes, yes, yes.

No, we are far ahead of schedule. The Vrinda Gardens Phase 3b, we hope to hand over in the next month or 2. The building is completely ready. We have applied for CC. So most of the data that we give here is as per RERA. And we are generally far ahead of schedule on that. Ashiana Shubham Phase 2 is also in the process of handing over. So we are handing -- both of those projects, we are ahead of schedule, and we don't have any issues in any of those.

Right. Right. Second thing is, last call, you mentioned that, sir, we are facing pricing pressure in Bhiwadi and Gurgaon. So I just -- in continuation to the last question, I hope that we are not going to invest much in Bhiwadi in the future. Is my understanding correct?

Yes. So in Bhiwadi, we are looking to, as I said, the first question, not only not invest in the future, but we are also looking at getting a lot of our capital deployed in Bhiwadi to come out of Bhiwadi. So overall, from a capital deployment perspective in Bhiwadi should reduce over a period of time.

We have the last question from the line of V.P. Rajesh from Banyan Capital.

Just a couple of follow-up questions. So we paid the NCDs in the current quarter or the last quarter, I guess. What was the thinking behind that, especially if you are looking to buy more land?

So there were NCDs which were -- the amount which were due in April of next year. So there was a very short preponement. So to us, that saved interest for those 9 months without really impacting our perspectives on looking at land because when I'm looking at land purchase, I'm looking at a little longer term financing. So we didn't -- so let's say, the part of the NCDs, which are due in April '22 and April '23 and April '24, that's -- I think that's how our NCDs are due. It's -- the ones which is -- April '21, '22 and '23, the amount which is due in April '21, we have part prepaid those. So that was the whole thinking that we paid off the shorter end of the curve.

Understood. And in terms of the land prices, have they corrected pre-COVID further? Or they are holding stable?

No. We -- so -- according to us, COVID has had very little impact on either sales prices or land prices. All it has done is delayed things to a large degree and probably impacted some amount of land right now from developers whose balance sheets were already stressed. But I don't think those developers were any case -- were anyways evaluating land parcels. So I don't see COVID having a very dramatic impact on pricing either of residential units or land in any form.

No, I was just thinking the other way, that some of the builders who have stressed balance sheet may be forced into liquidating their land banks and if that plan...

They were already doing that, V.P., and I don't think there were any changes. If anything, the loan moratorium has helped delay certain things and people have been able to get some time. Loans will get restructured also. So it might have the counterintuitive impact that might give breather rooms to some of the stressed balance sheets.

I see. Okay. And in terms of the launches, what are the -- sorry, I may have missed this. What are the launches that you have planned for the rest of the year, Q3, Q4, anything?

Yes. So we are looking to launch. We've launched Vrinda Gardens Phase 3b -- Phase 5, sorry, Phase 5 in this quarter. We've launched a block in Ashiana Nirmay Phase 3, which are 2 blocks. We had not launched one block for sale, which is getting launched in 3 days. We will -- in the second half of the financial year, we look to launch another phase in Ashiana Shubham Phase 4. We look to launch Phase 3 in Ashiana Daksh, which is a very smallish phase, and look to launch a phase in Ashiana Umang extension, a part of that phase. We have not decided the exact phase site.

Right. So what is the roughly square footage of all these launches?

I can't -- I don't have a totaling in my head right now. But as I said, I've given an idea of 1 million square foot. I think it's anywhere between 7.5 lakhs square foot to 1 million square foot.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

We would like to thank you all of you for being on this call and being patient with all the questions and somewhat long answers of mine. If we were unable to take any queries or if you wanted more information on some of your queries, please feel free to write to us directly or reach us out directly. And with that, we would like to conclude the call. Thank you, everyone, for being here and joining us on this call. Do stay safe, do stay healthy. Thank you, everyone.

Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Ashiana Housing Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining with us, and you may now disconnect your lines.