Asmallworld AG (ASWN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Jan Luescher. I'm the Chief Executive Officer here at ASMALLWORLD, and I would like to welcome everyone to this Earnings Call for our 2024 H1 results. You will have noticed that we've moved to new setup, to Zoom for this call, which allows us to use video and live stream of the slides. And we hope that will make it easier for you and more interesting for you to follow my explanations of this business update. [Operator Instructions] For full transparency, I also have Daniel Sutter here in the room with me, just making sure that everything goes smoothly. You can't see them, but just in case, you see interacting with somebody you know who that is. For the presentation or the structure of the presentation, that will stay the same as we had previously. We will provide you a quick overview of the financial and operational highlights for the first 6 months. And I will give you additional context from a business point of view, so you can better understand the headline numbers and where the business stands today. And as mentioned, then we will finish up with a short Q&A section at the end where you have a chance to raise -- ask some questions. So thanks to our new Zoom setup, you'll be able to see the presentation, as I said, right on screen. But if you prefer, you can still download the presentation from our corporate website. The corporate website, of course, is www.asmallworldag.com. Once you're on the site, you will have to navigate to a section called Investors, and then select the submenu Investor Documents, where you will find a document titled 2024 H1 Results Presentation, which is the document I will use for this call. So great. Let's jump right in then. And since we have a lot to get through on today's call, I will skip the first 3 slides, and we'll go straight to the financial highlights on Page #5, and I follow along here. So in short, the first 6 months of 2024 were another record period for us in terms of sales, and they were the strongest 6 months on record for us. EBITDA came in at CHF 0.9 million, which is 10% lower compared to the same period last year, but still higher than what we had initially anticipated. And if you compare the CHF 0.9 million EBITDA to our full year guidance of CHF 1 million to CHF 1.2 million, you will see that we have already achieved 90% of our full year EBITDA guidance, which we are of course, quite happy about. Net income was up 2% as well, similar to the sales, and earnings per share came in at CHF 0.04 per share. At the same time, we have also reduced about CHF 1 million of debt from our balance sheet during the last 6 months, and our cash position by the end of June stood at CHF 2 million. So overall, we are very happy with where we stand right now, especially since this year is an investment year with the new membership model for ASMALLWORLD just around the corner, and several other investments impacting our income statement as well. So we have to see the numbers in this context. Then the graphics on Page 6 are putting these results into historical context by showing you the key metrics of our five most recent half year results. In terms of sales, you can see how our H1 outperformed the same period last year, which was our previous record period with CHF 11.5 million. So we upped that to CHF 11.7 million this year for the first 6 months. And you can see the continued growth in members, which was up 6% compared to year -- sorry, to the end of June last year. EBITDA, as I mentioned, slightly down by 10%. But as we've expected a lower figure and as we said, we have already reached 90% of our annual guidance, this is actually quite a good outcome. So overall, very positive results and they highlight our ability to grow the company profitably even during an investment period. Moving on to the operational highlights for the period on Page 7. I want to highlight the continued strong demand for ASMALLWORLD premium memberships, namely the Prestige and the Signature memberships, which come with Miles & More and Emirates Air Miles. Further, the travel business has been growing as well. We've seen a 29% increase in stays from the ASMALLWORLD Collection, our online hotel booking platform and also from ASMALLWORLD Private, which we had renamed to ASMALLWORLD Bespoke Travel during this period, and that part also contributed positively to our growth in travel. Costs were largely contained. We've seen a 2% increase in direct costs, and we've seen a 3% increase in personnel expenses. And obviously, this being an investment period like I said, investments have been made into the new membership model, into technology and also in staff, into growing our travel sub, and we've also made a few key hires in marketing, and I will talk about that a bit later as well. So we then, moving on to Page #9, where I would like to talk a bit about the five most important initiatives that we are working on right now, just to give you additional context of where the business is headed and where we stand with progress against those key initiatives. This slide will give you a quick overview of these five initiatives, and then we'll use the slides thereafter to give you a bit more detail on each one of them. But staying on this slide for a second, the first key initiative is the new member model for the ASMALLWORLD community with the intent to drive sustainable member growth. The second one, which goes almost hand-in-hand with it is the refinement of the ASMALLWORLD brand, where we want to position ASMALLWORLD as a stronger luxury travel brand. Third initiative is to build scale in travel and where we want to grow our online and off-line travel business. And initiative #4 is to expand our product range with the goal to add more products to our portfolio, to have more things to sell and drive our revenue. And initiative #5 is to reduce debt, and obviously, we want to reduce that directly to strengthen our balance sheet, but also reduce the interest burden that comes with having debt on the balance sheet. So those are the five key initiatives that we are focused on, have been focusing on, we'll continue to focus on. And I just want to give you a quick update on where we stand on each one of those. So if we then go to the membership model, the first initiative, and you can see with the one at the top left of the slide, which corresponds to the initiative. We are in the middle of an ongoing transformation of our business model, and I've used this slide before, where we look back a few years and where we started our journey with ASMALLWORLD as a starting point and the target state that we want to move to. We have sort of shifted in terms of business cores from a single core, where we were just selling the membership for the ASMALLWORLD community to multi-core business, and we have a group of businesses with multiple revenue streams by now. that obviously goes -- sorry, with multiple businesses. And that goes hand-in-hand with -- I just mentioned in terms of revenue streams. This has also grown from selling ASMALLWORLD basic membership to also selling premium memberships, selling other services. So we don't rely just on one source of income, but multiple sources. And the last point is to grow the community size or our customer base from a small community to a larger community, which -- obviously, there, we haven't moved in steps, but like we have sort of tried to advance all of them at the same time. But with the new membership model, we're really targeting this last point to increase the community size, so -- and bringing this new membership model to life quite soon, will actually complete this ongoing business model transformation at least in its core initial step. So, what are we going to do when we say we introduced a new membership model? So the most important point is that we will introduce a free ASW membership, and the initiative is targeted for the go-live for the new membership model is early November. It might fluctuate a bit, maybe you can bring it a bit earlier, maybe it will be a bit later, but early November is currently the target date. So we will introduce a free membership and that membership will have about 90% of the functionality of our current paid basic membership. So it's not just a light version, but it's really becoming the new basic membership that most of our users will have. And the goal is to drive member growth, get new members into the community, create an easy entry point into ASMALLWORLD, and so we can drive our membership base. And with that also generate demand for other services, travel, events, and everything that we have to make money with ASMALLWORLD. But also, we want to still sell memberships, so we create clear upgrade paths to paid memberships. The premium membership is the one that is priced at the same level of the current paid membership that offers a bit more functionality, and we hope that we can upgrade many members to that membership. So we still generate membership income, and obviously, our Prestige and Signature memberships stay there, too. You'll see in the image, there is a new membership level called Advantage between the Premium and the Prestige. This will be a new membership level that we're aiming to introduce shortly after we've introduced the new model so that, in the end, we'll have one free membership and four paid memberships on top, giving us more inventory to sell, while we, at the same time, grow the community and generate demand for our other services. Then hand in hand, with the new membership model and the free membership level that we're introducing, we're also refining our brand. You are familiar with the current ASMALLWORLD logo, which you can also see at the bottom right of the page. We are moving to a new brand, and you can see what it looks like in terms of logo, here on this slide. The goal is that we position ASMALLWORLD more strongly as a luxury travel brand. I guess that the logo is one part, but it will also be reflected in the way we talk about ourselves. You see, basically, we have a new positioning line with Travel, Discover, Belong. Also, the way we speak about ASMALLWORLD, we want to make it the ultimate online destination for the luxury traveler where they can find inspiration, book amazing journeys and connect with fellow members. So it's really a clear positioning in the luxury travel space with a new look and feel across the page and the app. We will introduce it at the same time as we introduce a new membership model, so they really go hand in hand, with the landing page definitely being in the new style already, and the rest of our services, the -- a couple of our websites and the app following at a later point in time in order to not delay the new membership model launch. But already have the new logo in place, at least on our shop front, and then follow through over the next few weeks with everything else, with e-mails and all the pages and the apps. So like I said, the goal is to be -- present ASMALLWORLD as a more mature brand, more luxury travel and make it consistent with what we have evolved into, which is already a luxury positioning in travel. Then initiative #3 is to build scale in travel. Here, we have the figures or a graphical representation of the stays that ASMALLWORLD Collection, our online hotel booking platform is generating by half year. We've seen a 29% increase in stays compared to the first half of 2023, sort of represented here on the chart graphically. Stays means travel that have taken place or hotel stays that have taken place in these first 6 months, so as compared to bookings, which might take place at a future stage. So this is really trips that have happened and commission that we were able to bank. And then at the same time, bookings were up 34% versus the first 6 months of last year. And we've seen strong growth across the board from all different sources. What has grown quite strongly is bookings from nonmembers, so people who weren't yet ASMALLWORLD members and have joined specifically to book hotels with us, which highlights the potential for our new membership model, bringing more people into ASMALLWORLD and sort of bringing them into a sphere of influence and selling them hotels. And it also allows us to market -- or it's encouraging for our marketing efforts to nonmembers, which we are currently ramping up as well. So this looks all very promising from a demand point of view and from a marketing point of view. And at the same time, we're also improving the offering. So we have added about 120 hotels during the first 6 months. We are currently at about 1,600 hotels that are online at the moment. I mentioned previously that we're aiming for like 2,000-plus hotels, so we're on track to get there. And we also have new hotel brands that want to work with us and that we're bringing into the Collection. And the team is now also sufficiently resourced to bring new hotels online on a consistent basis. We also increased the customer experience. It's a more stable environment than it was probably 6 months ago when we've reduced errors, just making it more pleasant for users to book. Hand-in-hand with the ASMALLWORLD Collection, was the ASMALLWORLD Private working -- where they were alongside each other. ASMALLWORLD Collection, the online hotel booking tool; ASMALLWORLD Private, our offline travel agency business, so traditional travel designer or travel agency set up with interactions with the customer, either over phone, over e-mail and usually larger bookings, things like multi-hotel trips, flights as well or cruise bookings, which require an interaction with an agent. We have now changed the name or updated the name from ASMALLWORLD Private to ASMALLWORLD Bespoke Travel to make it clear what the service does. We felt it's a better name for that service. You see a screenshot here, which was taken from the website, asmallworldbespoke.com, which is our new website for this service. It's already in the new design. It's the first page that has seen the new brand almost as a test. I mean you can go and have a look at it. I mean it's the same styling that we will probably apply to the rest of the community pages, also reflecting this luxury style and refined and more mature style. At the same time, it's not just a name change and the new website. We've also hired 2 new key individuals who will -- are tasked to create a large team of travel agents for us. So the idea is that we will hopefully have 2 to 3, maybe even 4 or 5 new people on the team by the end of the year, really growing this part of the business as well. We are currently upgrading our system in the way we handle these offline travel bookings to be state-of-the-art and probably even ahead of our competitors. And the goal really is to have two strong travel components, the online business and this offline business with ASMALLWORLD Bespoke Travel, and that they operate in a symbiotic relationship with each other, giving us overall more scale in travel, and with that, also better commission. Usually, you get better commissions from your suppliers if you have more scale. So it will also profit ASMALLWORLD Collection and not just this business. So overall, should become more profitable and also leverage the fixed cost that we have from the Collection to just have all these supplier relationships and be set up with all our partners. So overall, have a stronger, bigger travel setup and make more money of the combined setup between the Collection and ASMALLWORLD Private, especially also as services will become more important as we scale up our membership base with the new membership model. For completeness, I thought it's probably also worth mentioning again that we had added a company called jetbeds.com at the end of last year. I mean when -- if you were part of the update for the full year results for 2023, you will have heard this already, but we have acquired a small company actually in Germany Jetbeds that is an online booking engine to book first- and business-class flights. So it's, in essence, a similar tool than our Collection, but for flights, allowing flight bookings online across multiple partners, which complements of course, a travel sell-up. At the moment, we are continuing to operate at stand-alone under the Jetbets.com website, but we have also started to develop an innovative tool already, a booking tool, which goes beyond what other partners are offering, which will be first brought to our First Class & More offering. And the idea is to create more demand for their memberships by really giving these customers that love to travel and love to find the right flights, a cool way to find their flights that others can't offer. Hasn't been launched yet, but we're in the middle of developing it. So hopefully, it will come during the second half of the year. And also at a later stage, we're planning to integrate the service into the ASMALLWORLD website and app, so to complement our hotel bookings with flight bookings. But since we have quite a bit of backlog on tech projects for ASMALLWORLD, this will probably just come at a later stage. So there is no date set for the integration into ASMALLWORLD yet, but also obviously another puzzle piece to complete our travel offering and build scale in travel. Initiative #4 is to create or expand -- to create new products and expand our product range. We obviously want to make sure we have as many products as possible to sell. I mean part of it is already what I mentioned earlier, with the new membership model where we're introducing new membership levels, which should also allow us to create more sales through that. One other part is to actually offer new options to our Prestige and Signature memberships. You will be aware that we currently offer Miles from Miles & More, Emirates and Etihad. So we basically have three options for our memberships, but we want to expand that to other -- to more options. One test run that we did as a one-off was to offer DISCOVERY Dollars. So that's the loyalty currency of GHA DISCOVERY, the hotel platform that we also invested in. The way we offered this one-off deal, that was actually to be transparent, a bit of a limited demand for this offering, but we have discussed it, and we can probably make it more attractive and bring it back on a more permanent basis during the second half of the year. So that will probably become a fourth option next to the miles that we're already offering. And we have also been in conversations with other miles partners -- other miles programs to potentially offer new miles packages with -- from other partners. We're still in discussions, but I'm quite confident that we'll get at least one more partner during the second half of the year, which will allow us to expand our product range for Prestige and Signature than in some, from three options to five options during the second half of the year. We've also launched a new company in travel, The Solo Cruise Company, you see a screen shot here and also the link to the website. This new offering taps into the growing market for solo travel, specifically, it's offering luxury cruises for senior women who would like to go on a cruise, but are kind of like intimidated to go on their own. So the main product that we're offering here are called fully hosted journeys, which again, are designed for female travelers age 55 plus, and they come with a dedicated host from The Solo Cruise Company, not just from a cruise company, but actually from The Solo Cruise Company. So there will be a couple of different departure dates during the year, where we are offering these trips. And in general what it is, it's a new marketing approach, so it has its own website, has its own offering with a very clear target group. So in that sense, it's a new go-to-market strategy for us, but it fully leverages our existing travel setup. So the booking process is no different in the end from what we're already offering with ASMALLWORLD Bespoke Travel. It's just another way to generate demand for this specific product and we decided to launch this and try this. And we had very good feedback from other travel agencies. We're even featured as an innovative travel company in a travel conference recently that we attended. So it's been seen and hopefully will also create more demand, but it's just been launched and probably it will -- we'll see next year how much we're selling for the cruise season 2025. And moving on to the final initiative, which is debt reduction. So just to recap quickly, we have already embarked on this journey to reduce our debt in 2023, where we reduced our debt by 54% during the year. So we started the year with an outstanding debt balance of CHF 9.1 million. And during the year, CHF 4.9 million of that were actually repaid, so that we ended last year with an outstanding debt balance of CHF 4.2 million. And during the first 6 months of this year, we reduced our debt by an additional CHF 1 million, and we did that by repaying our entire COVID-19 loan to the Swiss government. Though, we did that earlier than it was actually required. And we reduced our bank loan, which we have opened, which actually came from the financing for the acquisition of our stake in the Global Hotel Alliance, which is also the last outstanding debt position on our books right now. So we -- these were the two payments we made, and that means if we look at the last 18 months combined, during that period, we reduced our debt actually by 65%, CHF 5.9 million from CHF 9.1 million to CHF 3.2 million. And I believe this is a very significant amount of money. And obviously, that strengthens our balance sheet quite a bit in terms of our equity ratio. And at the same time, it also reduced our interest cost by roughly about CHF 200,000 per year, which obviously is a cost that we then don't have to carry in our P&L every year. So we're obviously happy with where we are. I think this is a very healthy position to be in. We are also planning to reduce our debt further by reducing at least CHF 400,000 of this outstanding bank loan over the next 3 years. We also have this agreement with the bank that we would do that anyway, getting down to CHF 2 million. So that means over the next 3 years, probably reduced by another CHF 1.2 million to CHF 2 million in total then. But I believe that has now become to levels that are very manageable, and we feel very comfortable with. Good. So that was a quick overview of the key initiatives. The next section is a very quick overview of our two business segments. So first of all, the Subscriptions business on Page 20. Revenue for this part of the business has been increasing by 2.6% to CHF 7.7 million. EBITDA has gone down quite a bit. You see it there from CHF 650,000 to about CHF 340,000, and margins have sort of gone down to a similar amount. So what's going on like under the hood under these numbers, so I mentioned earlier that demand for Prestige and Signature memberships on ASMALLWORLD side have -- has continued to grow. So we were happy with that part. Even though we get slightly lower margins, we had to be a bit more competitive because of Miles & More has its own Bundle & Go miles product so that impacts our margins slightly. The basic memberships have experienced slightly weaker demand on the ASMALLWORLD side, but also on First Class & More. So that's something that we need to address. But with the new membership model, we also didn't want to push the marketing too much before we introduce it. And then all the costs for the investment into the membership model are obviously attributed to this business segment, so that's also impacting our EBITDA numbers in the -- but staff costs and so on manageable with a 2% increase, but also impacted the numbers. On the other side, the Services business has also grown by about 2%, strong demand for travel and also to a lesser extent for events. We've seen that ASMALLWORLD Collection, as we said, increased by 29% in their bookings, ASMALLWORLD Private or now ASMALLWORLD Bespoke Travel bookings were up as well. What wasn't very strong during this period is the demand for First Class & More flight upgrade services, and which we are sort of working on to get back. But then also we had a net effect, positive effect from the legal dispute with MAG of Life in Dubai, where we're expecting a positive outcome for our legal court case, which sort of contributed positively to these results as well in the service business. That was the business segment view. If we go into the overall consolidated financials on Page 23, the income statement. We mentioned most of these points already. Sales up by 2%. Other operating expenses are a bit higher. So they were also due to the legal costs that we had with the MAG of Life case. That's the reason for the increase there. But direct expenses only up 3%, personnel expenses only up 2%, so that's okay. You see the R&D expenses going up a bit more, that's like due to activation for the membership model. That's a smaller part of the cost there. On the financial income side, that has been going up quite a bit. So it's mainly dividend payments from Global Hotel Alliance and the reduction in interest payments, which all contributed positively. And then on the negative side, our income taxes are a bit higher because of the introduction of a federal corporate tax in the UAE, where our First Class & More business is based, which is now sort of starting to -- we see the effect as in higher taxes. But overall, the net result is up by 2%. Moving on to the balance sheet. So we've seen actually a fairly steady balance sheet here during this period. So a bit of an increase in the current assets, but it's been offset by a decrease in the noncurrent assets. Cash position went from CHF 3 million to CHF 2 million, but we also repaid CHF 1 million in debt, right? Receivables from services are high, as you will see. This is due to the fact that we had some bigger invoices actually in June, which haven't -- which were open at the time when we closed the books. And then we have prepayments and accrued income, which also increased due to outstanding dividend payments and also a legal dispute with MAG of Life, as I mentioned earlier, which is feeding into that position. Financial assets, you see that they have gone down. This is a -- the point, I think, I mentioned it in the full year results for '23. We had investment -- we had made a strategic investment into a luxury hotel fund about a year -- a bit more -- probably less than a year ago, trying to get more business for ASMALLWORLD Hospitality. The plans around that fund had changed though, and basically the fund was dissolved early this year, so which means that our investment into this fund has been paid back. And so we converted CHF 1.2 million back into cash from that fund. So it's no longer on our books. Page 25. Looking at the liabilities first. So they decreased by CHF 1 million. It's always a bit trickier to see with short-term and long-term financial liabilities. But -- so basically, what we -- what I said, the CHF 3.2 million that we have in our books or the remaining that we have in our books is basically the CHF 400,000 of short-term financial liabilities. It's the first line here in this chart. And then the long-term financial liabilities of CHF 2.8 million combined give you the CHF 3.2 million, which we still have in our books. And you see that, that has been -- obviously, both positions have been reduced from last year. Payables from goods and services, still also a bit up because we also had an open invoice for one of our suppliers for the mile side, which was higher. And then the equity is probably also worth mentioning. Our equity increased by CHF 0.7 million due to the positive net result in the, I would say, generally improving financial position. So we see an increase in our net assets or in our equity. And then looking at the cash flow statement, starting with the operating cash flow on Page 26. We see that this is a negative number. It was CHF 628,000 minus for the first half of this year. This is primarily due to a very high increase in receivables that I mentioned earlier, which came from big invoices in June. You see it there, in what is that the fifth line, change in receivables from services, which is CHF 1.8 million down. Obviously, if we would have settled, this position would have been in a positive territory. So we're not worried about that. I don't think it shows that we are not generating cash, it's just because the invoices haven't been paid for this part of the business by the end of the year, I mean, this should even out. Then we had other noncash items increasing. Again, that is the income tax in the UAE, and then prepayments and accrued income is the provisions from the MAG of Life legal dispute, which where we are expecting CHF 700,000 to come in. And overall, that is bringing the cash flow from investing activities to a positive territory. Also there with the divestment of the luxury hotel fund of CHF 1.2 million, where the money came in from the divestment of that fund. So after the operating cash flow and the cash flow from investing activities, a quick look at the cash flow from financing activities. So here, this is -- one is an outflow and reflects what I mentioned earlier that we have been repaying our debt to the extent of CHF 1 million, so which you can see here quite transparently. And then if you look at the change in net cash, we decreased our cash position by roughly CHF 1.1 million over the first 6 months of the year, sort of basically reflecting these payments that we made to reduce our debt. Then for the last part of the formal presentation, looking quickly at the full year or the outlook for the second half of the year. We expect the demand for our Prestige and Signature memberships to stay high for the second half. Also, our travel businesses, we hope that they will grow further during the same period. What is obviously a big milestone is to go-live of the new membership model for early November, as we discussed earlier. And the brand refinement that will go hand-in-hand, which is expected for the same period. So that will be completing our business model transformation, and hopefully, will set us up for sustainable long-term growth with the ASMALLWORLD community. And at the same time, clearly this needs more investments for this business model change also marketing costs, and we have to have a couple of more hires in the team, especially on the marketing side. And this will all impact the cost of the second half of the year as well. I mean we had some impact in the first half, but the second half will be impacted more. And so looking at the guidance for the year, we're keeping the guidance where it was. So with net sales, we're still expecting to go up to somewhere about CHF 23 million to CHF 25 million. Members we're expecting to come in between 73,000 and 74,000 members. And EBITDA, we're expecting to be somewhere between CHF 1 million to CHF 1.2 million. We were probably a bit more on the conservative side there with having CHF 900,000 EBITDA already banked for the first half of the year, but we know there are a few investments coming there, so we try to be conservative there and keep the guidance where it is for the full year for now. And with that, I will conclude the -- my part of the presentation and open up to questions for the Q&A section.

[Operator Instructions] I will actually start with Henry. Henry, you should be able to speak right now, we should be able to hear you.

Yes. Do you hear me now?

Yes. We can hear you, loud and clear.

Congrats, first of all, to the results. I see you're making progress on your business model change. And this is probably the topic we need to talk about today a little bit more. First, so far -- so just to recap, so I got this straight. The strategic rationale going forward is now increase the number of members on the ASMALLWORLD community. And after they subscribe to the community, then the plan continues to be upselling and cross-selling to all the services you provide, and also if they like the subscription offerings, you're offering. So -- and then going forward, if this works out the way it is, then the Services segment, which is much more profitable right now, should also continue to develop operating leverage in [indiscernible] boost the profitability in, say, 2025, 2026 and so on. So that's more or less the summary of the Earnings Call right now, right?

Yes. I mean you summarized it nicely. So the logic is to have a bigger community, because it's easier to join, right? If you can join for free, you're probably more likely to join. People are more likely to invite others. So the -- obviously, the effect of the free membership tier should be a growth in our community. And that will allow us, at the same time -- well, I mean, it could result in a dip as well, right? I mean we know that some people are currently paying for their membership, might go to the free membership. That is a risk. But at the same time, I think through the growth, the idea is that we still upsell everyone to a membership. So we will still offer the CHF 100 membership, we'll also introduce this new level just above it probably for CHF 300 or CHF 400, so we hope that we actually can maintain our subscription income from this group. But at the same time, with having more members in our community, as you pointed out, to sell them more services. I mean when we say services, primarily mean travel, but also monetize them through events to a certain point. We will probably price events at a higher price point for free members compared to paying members. So that would allow us to still make some money even on free members through events. And then, it should allow us to tap into new income streams or revenue streams that we currently could only tap into on a limited basis. So for example, we've run a pilot with a credit card company or with [ Amex ] here in Switzerland, offering it to our members. And we would get a sales commission for every customer that would sort of sign up and create a new credit card. And that was a pilot to see if we can monetize our member base with third-party products as well. Having said that, that obviously makes a lot more sense if you have a larger member base, so -- but it would allow us to run these kinds of promotions with our partners in different geographies, even in geographies where we currently have bit subscale today. So that opens up a new revenue stream. And also the goal is to think a bit further, is to with our repositioning of ASMALLWORLD [indiscernible] luxury travel community to go to our partners, I mean, our travel partners, the hotel companies, to cruise companies and say, hey, guys, don't you want to promote your new products, let's say, a new cruise ship from one of our partners to an audience of, let's say, 200,000, 300,000 people interested in luxury travel. And basically use our eyeballs also to monetize it for a very targeted campaigns in luxury travel with our partners. I'm not saying advertising in the sense that Meta does it, right, where you have some sort of advertising for everyone, but really in our travel space, leverage our position that we will -- hopefully can grow into becoming the online place for luxury travel in the online world and then also monetize that position with our partners. So that's the goal for the monetization for the new membership model and then the logic behind it.