Asmallworld AG (ASWN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Jan Luescher. I'm the Chief Executive Officer of ASMALLWORLD. And I would like to welcome everyone to this Earnings Call for our 2024 Full Year Results. As with the half year results, we have moved these earnings calls to Zoom, which allows us to use video and live stream of the slides, which I hope will make it easier and more interesting for you to follow along my explanations of our business update. We have muted all participants at this stage, but we will, of course, allow participants to ask questions during our Q&A session at the end. And thanks to our new Zoom setup, we'll be able -- you will be able to see the presentation on screen. But if you prefer, you can download this presentation from our corporate website, which is www.asmallworldag.com. And once you're on the site, you have to navigate to the section called Investors and there then select the submenu investor documents. And in that section, you will find a document titled ASMALLWORLD AG 2024 Results Presentation, which is the document I will be using for this call. So with the logistics out of the way, let's dive right in since we have a lot to get through today, I will skip the first 3 slides, and we'll go straight to the agenda slide on Page 4. In terms of structure, we will first go through an overview of our 2024 performance. Then I will provide you with an update for our key initiatives before we then cover the segment reporting and the consolidated financials. And as the last agenda items, I will provide a short outlook for the year 2025, and we will then close the call with a brief Q&A, as already mentioned before. Moving on to the highlights on Page 6. In short, 2024 was a year that was heavily influenced by the implementation of the new membership model. And sorry, to be more precise, the membership model for the ASMALLWORLD community. And I had previously indicated that 2024 would be an investment year as we're setting ASMALLWORLD up for long-term success. As part of this change, we've introduced ASMALLWORLD's new membership model, and that happened in November 2024 after more than, I would say, 1.5 years of planning and development time. And at the same time, we also introduced an exciting new visual design for ASMALLWORLD. These 2 steps combined also marked the completion of a multiyear business model transformation. I will talk about that a bit more in the slides to follow. And this new model had an immediate impact on the number of our member base, which jumped by 26% to 88,200 members by the end of the year. Net sales were stable at CHF 20.9 million, and EBITDA came in at CHF 1.4 million, quite a bit higher than our guidance of CHF 1 million to CHF 1.2 million. Cash and securities increased from CHF 3 million to CHF 4 million. And we further strengthened our balance sheet by reducing our debt on our balance sheet by another CHF 1 million from CHF 4.2 million to CHF 3.2 million. The graphics on Page 7 are putting these results into historical context by showing the key metrics of our 5 most recent results. In terms of sales, you can see how 2024 was roughly on par with 2023, in the end, down 1.8%, I would say that's on par. And you can see the 26% jump in the member numbers from 2023, which can be attributed to the introduction of the new membership model in November last year. And for EBITDA, we've seen a decrease of 34%, but we had actually anticipated a larger decrease to CHF 1 million to CHF 1.2 million. So with CHF 1.4 million, we ended actually quite a bit higher than our guidance and what we had previously anticipated. I will comment a bit more on how to make sense of these numbers when we are looking at the key initiatives. But in short, the introduction of the membership model was delayed, which had a knock-on effect on sales and also on our marketing spend, which had to happen after the introduction of the membership model. So in short, we didn't spend as much as we intended. And so our cost was lower, and this is also what led to a higher-than-anticipated EBITDA. I would now like to go to Page #9 and talk a bit about the 5 most important initiatives that we were working on in 2024. I will provide you with a quick overview on this slide, and then we will go into more detail on the following slides. But the 5 initiatives were the introduction of the new membership model to drive sustainable member growth, which went live on the 26th of November, to refine the ASMALLWORLD brand and position the ASMALLWORLD clearly as a luxury travel brand, which happened at the same time as the new membership model, to build scale in travel, so to grow online and off-line travel sales. This is an ongoing initiative, and we will keep pushing that in the year to come as well. Expand our product range, so to add more products to our portfolio, we'll look at that in a bit and to reduce debt. And so I took it away already, we reduced debt by another CHF 1 million last year. And actually, over a 2-year period, we reduced our debt by 2/3. So now moving on to the details of these initiatives, starting with the new membership model. We had set out to transform the way ASMALLWORLD operates and focused on 3 levels for that, business cores or number of business cores and number of revenue streams and community size. Over the last years, we had already moved from a single core business with one single revenue stream to a multi-core business with multiple revenue sources. And the last step of this business model transformation was to increase the community size from a small community to a large community for which we needed this new membership model. This was also the step that we took in November last year. And as such, it marks the completion of this transformation of our business model and ASMALLWORLD has now arrived at its target state from which I believe it can go further and in a sustainable fashion. So what did we do exactly? So in short, we made ASMALLWORLD free. So we introduced a free membership highlighted here at the bottom of this overview of our memberships for ASMALLWORLD. And this new membership pretty much is 90% of the functionality of the former paid membership. And like I said, the goal is to get more users in, drive membership growth and with that, create demand for our other services. At the same time, we've also introduced a new premium membership highlighted here in blue and with a frame. This is an enhanced ASMALLWORLD experience. It's priced like the old ASMALLWORLD membership. And we are also migrating or we have migrated all existing paying members to the premium membership so that we have continuity, and we hope that people will stay on this level and not too many people will [ drake ] down to free. And what does this additional benefit membership level offer? It offers exclusive travel privileges, not accessible for free members, access to premium-only events, preferred pricing for events. You can search members in other locations than where you currently are. You have enhanced privacy features and you can create marketplace listings or job listings and real estate listings. So that's what you get in addition or on top of being a free member. But the most important mechanism here is obviously that we wanted to have more people join the community. So we will start this from left to right. So it's a simplified sign-up. It removes the payment hurdle, and we think it will drive community size quite considerably, and we've seen evidence of that already. This larger scale of the user base is beneficial in many ways. On one way, just for the community. So we have networking effects. We have more users, makes the membership more interesting, makes it more interesting to be part of ASMALLWORLD creates to more activity, and we've seen a strong uptick in activity already. And people will stay longer. They invite more friends, they get more engaged, they get more involved. Then from a business point of view, obviously, we're not making money with free users. We have 5 selling mechanisms in place, of which 3 have been here already and 2 are actually selling mechanisms that we've trialed in a few areas, but actually that really only will become relevant now and sort of allow us to diversify and expand our revenue sources. So the selling mechanisms are upsell free users to premium membership or to paid memberships. One is premium, but also, of course, Prestige and Signature, the memberships we already had with Miles and other travel benefits. Sell them travel with ASMALLWORLD Collection or with ASMALLWORLD bespoke travel, sell them events. So the idea is that we sell more events and we sell them at higher prices to free members, allowing us to get a higher margin on these events. And then the new selling mechanisms are selling third-party products and I mentioned this already. I mean, we had trialed the sale of credit cards for our partners where we get a commission, and we will find new ways to do that, and that will be very interesting also because we now have the ability to really target per market. So we can, for example, show German users something different than users in the U.K., so which makes it easier for us to put the right products in front of the right people. And the fifth mechanism is basically eyeballs. You would also call that probably advertising in other social networks. The idea is that we will never be a Meta, so we will not allow marketers to come in and just put their ads up. And we're also not big enough to successfully do that. But we believe with our travel focus and luxury travel focus, we can run image campaigns, selling campaigns for our partners meaning hotel companies, cruise companies, others who really are interested in our audience and do tailored campaigns for them. And that's a mechanism or a tool that we haven't used before. But as we grow, this will become more interesting, and we believe that this will become a revenue stream that we didn't have in the past. Then looking at the growth, we already mentioned the 26% growth that we have seen at the -- mainly at the end of the year after the introduction of the new model. So we've used our mailing list mainly for that. This wasn't a big marketing push or paid marketing push. We've basically been going back to the people we already had in our database that kind of dropped out over the years or were interested in ASMALLWORLD and never joined and we market it to them. So that's where this uptick is coming from. We will continue to market to them, but we will also start to push paid marketing campaigns, reactivation campaigns, get new users in. So that's really where the focus is going forward. And then I mentioned already a bit in terms of timing of the introduction of the new membership model. It was originally planned to launch in Q3 this year, and we launched in at the end of November. So it's a bit of a delay. Reasons for that, that there were more development efforts required than we had initially anticipated. At the same time, we also made more user experience improvements than we had originally planned because we thought it would be better to have them ready for this new launch instead of having users come in and then be frustrated with certain behaviors or use cases. And we decided to upgrade a lot more background service than originally intended. I briefly mentioned before the ability for us to now market to different countries, cities separately, something we didn't had before. But also we added security updates and a few other services like deep linking where now if you have an e-mail and you open it on your phone instead of going to web, it will go straight to the app, which also makes the user experience much smoother. So we feel, overall, yes, we've been delayed, but we had a better product at the start. While we felt that when we put on the spotlight with the new branding, new model, we had a lot of -- we'll have a lot of people visiting us, and we wanted to be ready and provide the best user experience that they can have at this point. So yes, but there was a delay, and the delay probably had an impact on our growth. So we couldn't spend the marketing investments that we wanted to make. It only left a month at the end of last year, and we decided not to do much there in the Christmas period. And it also had an impact that we were probably not reaching our sales targets to where we wanted to go. So we pretty much stagnant for the year on -- these were the implications. For EBITDA, this had a positive effect. As we said, we actually came in higher than we thought. So we were more profitable than we thought. At the beginning of the year for sales, it had the opposite effect where we came a bit lower than what we had anticipated. However, it's done now, and it's a great setup. I think it will set ASMALLWORLD up for success, and we will now spend the marketing dollars this year and expect to grow the member base with that and sales to accelerate. So the second initiative is the positioning of ASMALLWORLD as a luxury brand or the refinement of ASMALLWORLD brand. So we had introduced a new brand. If you have sort of followed us also this presentation looks different from what the half year presentation looked like. So we have a new styling, new fonts, and new logo that clearly positions ASMALLWORLD as a luxury brand. It's a new visual look and feel. And we wanted to make sure that ASMALLWORLD reflects graphically what ASMALLWORLD has become, which is a luxury travel brand over the last few years. So it's, I guess, just a reflection of what the business is today. And the new logo reflects that identity, also the way we speak about ASMALLWORLD, we are the community for luxury travels. We are a trusted community where members can find inspiration, book unique journeys and connect with like-minded members. So really stresses our positioning in the luxury travel space. We also have a new positioning line. When you go to the ASMALLWORLD website, you will see the positioning line Travel, Discover, Belong. So Travel, obviously, at the center of what we do in sort of the luxury travel as the topic that guides what ASMALLWORLD does. Discover in the sense that we provide new inspiration for people's next journeys, where to go, what to do. And so we want to make sure people have an inspirational moment when they come to a ASMALLWORLD and get new ideas. But then also with Belong the aspect of the community, we started our being as a social network, and we want to continue to be one and connect members across the world that have the same passion for travel, for discovering the world. In terms of what that looks like, the website, the landing page has been completely updated for the launch on the 26th of November. Before Christmas, we then updated the web version of our locked-in area. So basically what members see. This is what you see on the left screenshot. And then we needed a bit more time to upgrade our apps, so our iOS and Android apps, which followed in February. You see screenshots there on the right. And now this design is really 95% implemented where on all our services, whether you're not a member, you just come to visit the site, whether you're a member and you go access through the web or you access through the app, you will see the new design and it's consistent. Then initiative number 3, build scale in travel. So starting with the ASMALLWORLD Collection, we've seen the hotel booking volume increasing year-by-year. You may remember that we started the ASMALLWORLD Collection in 2020. Here on the graph on the left, which shows graphically the development of our stays per year in value. There was pretty much nothing in 2020, and then we started in '21 with seeing some bookings. From '23 to '24, we saw a nice increase of 34% in stays that actually happened in year. And if you look at the value of bookings that happened in 2024, we've even seen a 43% increase, although that number is a bit less reliable because there might still be cancellations that will bring that number further down. So that's why we're focusing on stays in year, which is plus 34%. So we've also seen growth from non-members, highlighting the potential for the new membership model and for marketing the ASMALLWORLD Collection to non-members, which is great to see. We've also added 200 hotels during 2024. Apologies, there is a typo there, it should be 2024. And we have more than 1,700 hotels online now. We also increased the customer -- sort of improved the customer experience. It's now more stable. It's -- the environment in general has seen stability upgrades, and we have reduced errors, making it easier for people to book. The complementing service to the ASMALLWORLD Collection is ASMALLWORLD Bespoke Travel, which we had previously called ASMALLWORLD Private. We have now renamed it ASMALLWORLD Bespoke Travel, which makes it easier to understand what it actually is sort of it's curated travel, tailored travel. So it's basically services that are highly individualized and where customers speak to our travel agents to tailor their travel plans and to make unique journeys possible. We hired 2 more individuals last year to create a team of more travel agents and also to set ourselves up to hire independent contractors. We've seen quite a few independent contractors join us already, and we also have a few in the pipeline that will probably join us this year. We also expect 2 or 3 more hires. The systems have been upgraded. So overall, this is really an area that is quite dynamic, and I'm quite excited about. because ASMALLWORLD Bespoke Travel has a very symbiotic relationship with ASMALLWORLD Collection. In the end, we are leveraging the same supplier relationships. In economic terms, you can also say we have the same fixed cost that we can spread over more business. And so if ASMALLWORLD Bespoke Travel becomes bigger, that will also have impacts on commissions that we get from our suppliers, also making ASMALLWORLD Collection more profitable. So overall, this is really why we're pushing both sides, ASMALLWORLD Collection as an online travel agency, as an online hotel booking tool, pretty much self-service and ASMALLWORLD Bespoke Travel as a highly tailored travel agency. Then expanding the product range. So we have been working on finding new partners for our very successful Prestige and Signature options. It hasn't been as successful last year as we had hoped. We had trialed ASMALLWORLD DISCOVERY Dollars as a new option, which, however, had limited appeal, but we'll bring it back on a permanent basis now in 2025 with a better option. We've also been in conversations with other airline partners that we could add next to Miles & More, Emirates and Etihad. We had made a significant progress with one partner. However, we are still in discussions of the implementation. I do still hope that we can find a solution to that and bring them online in the coming, I would say, months. And then we are still pushing to add more airline partners to this, so this is an ongoing focus for the organization. And the fifth initiative, the debt reduction, we had reduced our debt quite significantly in 2023, so not '24, the year before by 54%. And then in 2024, we had actually reduced our debt by an additional CHF 1 million. So we repaid our entire COVID-19 loan to the Swiss government earlier than required actually. And we reduced our bank loan, which by now is the only outstanding debt position in our books with CHF 3.2 million. So in summary, if you look at the last 2 years, we have reduced our debt by about 2/3 from CHF 9 million or CHF 9.1 million to CHF 3.2 million. And as a result, we have reduced our interest cost by at least CHF 200,000 per year, and our balance sheet is now stronger than ever at the end of 2024. And we are still planning to reduce our debt further by at least CHF 400,000 for each of the next 3 years. So this year, '25 and then '26 and '27, so that we would reach CHF 2 million debt by the end of 2027. So now we're going to the segment reporting, starting with our larger segment or business unit Subscriptions. So sales have been roughly on the same level. We -- they came in at CHF 14.7 million compared to CHF 14.8 million. We had strong demand still for the Prestige and Signature products, especially for the Miles & More product, which we had believed would potentially see a reduced demand due to Miles & More's own offering, Bundle & Go. We were able actually to increase sales versus 2023, even though with slightly lower margins as we had to adjust our prices a little bit to stay competitive. Where we've seen some reductions were in the basic ASMALLWORLD membership, which, however, we also didn't advertise as much because we had a membership model change just happening at the end of last year. And we've also seen slightly lower First Class & More membership sales. Then there was also a technical aspect that we reclassified one of our B2B partnerships from subscription to services, which had an impact on the Subscriptions business. And we obviously had quite a bit of cost that we're allocating to the subscription side, which were for the development team and for the membership model implementation investments, which mainly fell into this business unit, driving down the EBITDA or having the EBITDA from CHF 1.2 million to CHF 0.6 million last year. Looking at the service businesses, the smaller business unit. Here, we've seen a reduction of about 6%. However, under the hood, there were quite a few things going on. We had slightly lower sales overall, mainly driven to fewer opportunities to sell flight upgrade services from our First Class & More business unit. So that was the negative aspect here in this equation. However, at the same time, the travel services have seen steady growth from ASMALLWORLD Collection as well as ASMALLWORLD Bespoke Travel, and they are expected to continue to grow. I talked about this a bit earlier already. Also, the events services unit or events that falls into the services business has seen growth year-on-year. Margins here were less impacted because the membership model changes were mainly attributed to the Subscriptions segment. So the costs that fell into the Services business unit were mainly the investments into growth of the travel platform and specifically for ASMALLWORLD Bespoke Travel. Now if we move on to the consolidated financials. First, the income statement on Page 28. You've seen most of these numbers already. The net sales, the EBITDA what is maybe worth pointing out, you've seen that we had higher amortization here compared to last year. That's mainly due to the acquisition of Jetbeds and the corresponding amortization of the asset. And also, we've changed accounting principles from a 5-year amortization of our activated technology to 3 years. So that brought this number higher up. Also in income taxes, we've seen an increase driven by the introduction of corporate tax in the UAE, where First Class & More is based, which now -- so we're basically paying more taxes. So these were the other additional factors that are probably worth pointing out compared to the headline numbers that you had already seen. If we're then moving on to the balance sheet and first, the assets on the balance sheet. You've seen that -- or you will see that the cash position has come down by CHF 1 million from CHF 3 million to CHF 2 million roughly, mainly due to the repayments of our financial liabilities of CHF 1 million that I pointed out. We have securities. We are holding CHF 2 million of securities. This is not a long-term investment, but we have received shares as payment for receivables to the extent of CHF 2 million, which were settled in a non-cash transactions by a related party with securities. Having said that, we intend to move these securities off our balance sheet as soon as possible. Also, the value of these securities is guaranteed by this third party. So ASW is protected against any potential loss on disposition. But -- so this is why we have securities on our books to the extent of CHF 2 million. And then if you go further down the balance sheet, you will see that our total current assets because of that have been increasing and the balance sheet overall, though stays fairly consistent at roughly CHF 12 million. Liabilities side, we also -- we don't have -- or sorry, we don't have that much movement. You see that the long-term financial liabilities have been reduced by CHF 1 million. As discussed earlier, this was the COVID-19 loan repaid to the government and also reduction of our bank loan. Payables for goods and services a bit higher than the year before, mainly to the high volume of Prestige and Signature memberships, which were still outstanding at the end of last year -- sorry, the supplier invoices still outstanding at the end of last year, but which we've already fully settled in 2025. Also nice to see that the total equity has now increased again due to the positive net result of the company for this year. Then moving on to the different cash flow statements, starting with the operating -- sorry, with the -- yes, with the operating cash flow part one. You can see that despite sort of a lower net result, the operating cash flow before any changes in the working capital actually hasn't gone down that much from CHF 2.3 billion to CHF 1.7 billion, as you first would see, which basically shows ASMALLWORLD's ability to generate cash from its operations. However, when you go further down, you will see right below, there was an impact on the receivables from service, which is quite significant. This reflects the CHF 2 million that I mentioned earlier that were settled in a non-cash transaction where ASW received shares or securities as payment. And since this is a non-cash payment, so this basically impacts our operating cash flow, and that's why our operating cash flow in the end is CHF 500,000 negative. If this transaction or these sort of receivables would have been settled in cash, we would have been at CHF 1.5 million of operating cash flow. Then we go to the cash flow statement from investing activities. Here, it's worth mentioning that there was an inflow from investments from financial assets of CHF 1.4 million. I mentioned that in the half year results already. This was the sale of the luxury hotel fund investment that we were part of that we invested at the end of 2022, which then was sort of dissolved and paid back to us. So that's why we had an influx of CHF 1.4 million at the beginning of the year, also makes our cash flow from investing activities positive to the extent of about CHF 0.5 million. The outflows from investments for intangible assets, of course, reflects the work that is put into the new membership model, the technology and everything that we've built for that. And then moving on to the last part of the cash flow statement. So the cash flow from financing. So here, you see the reduction of financial liabilities and -- which is basically repayment of our loans. So that adds up to CHF 1 million, reduction of the bank loan repayment of all Swiss COVID-19 loans. And then at the end, the final result of the cash flow statement is minus CHF 1 million change in net cash. So we went from CHF 3 million to CHF 2 million -- sorry, from CHF 3 million to -- sorry, I need to double check that I may say this correctly. Yes, from CHF 3 million to CHF 2 million. Okay. Now moving on to the outlook on Page 35. You will have seen it from our press release in December after 8 years and now after the completion of the transformation of ASMALLWORLD business model, I will be stepping down from my role as CEO of ASMALLWORLD. And we have a successor. My successor is called Zain Richardson. Zain has a background studying at Oxford University, English and French, and he has an MBA from the Kellogg School of Management, was first a management consultant, but then worked extensively in the luxury and travel sector. His most recent position was Chief Marketing and Customer Officer at Aero, a private jet airline. And he had also before worked at Aman Group, Marriott International, Wyndham, Starwood and Expedia. So you see there's a lot of experience there. Zain will officially start next Monday, and we have planned for an extensive handover period. So we will ensure that there is a steady transition from me to him. But it's worth noting that always in a transition period, that will take a bit of time until everything is fully settled. And if we then look at the outlook for 2025. Like I said, we have now completed our business model transformation, and now we're at the stage where we need to make this new model work. So this will include growing the member base, which is sort of the most important thing. And that should then in turn lead to increased demand for our products and services. At the same time, this larger audience that we will get to will allow us to establish new monetization efforts. So like I outlined earlier in this presentation, and hence, further expands the revenue sources for ASMALLWORLD. But as always, with such a big change, it will take a bit of time to make this new world work perfectly. And will also take some marketing investments to achieve the desired membership growth. And because of that, we can't guarantee that everything will be perfect for 2025 already. And -- but we are cautiously optimistic that we can maintain or even grow our position that we are in right now while we are making the new model work for us. So as a result, our guidance for 2025 is quite a significant member growth, so to the extent of 35% to 40%, which is the first metric and the most important metric that we're targeting. And this should then flow through to a sales increase, but there will be a bit of a delay for that, but we are expecting an increase of 5% to 10% from the '24 results to CHF 22 million to CHF 23 million. And for EBITDA, it is a balancing act between using the money that we have to invest into growth, and to use it as marketing money, while at the same time, balancing it with profitability. We are targeting a range of CHF 1.4 million to CHF 1.5 million EBITDA next year. So that's where we hopefully will come out by the end of 2025. Good. This actually concludes the presentation part of the presentation. And we will now open up for Q&A.

And let me now open the participant list. [Operator Instructions] So first, we have Henry Wendisch. And if everything works out, we should be able to hear you now, Henry.

I hope you can hear me fine. Yes, first of all, I wish you all the best for your future. It was a pleasure working with you all these years now. And you've done a lot with ASW and we see some progress here. So yes, a big thanks from my side. It was a pleasure. But now looking at operations, maybe to put a summary on how we can look at EBITDA for 2025. You mentioned some development costs that impacted more or less both segments a little bit. Obviously, they will not be there in 2025 again. But then you also mentioned that the marketing is going to increase. That's why EBITDA is still more or less flat. Is that like the general summary of what's happening on the cost side?

Yes. With -- so the investments for 2024, the investments on the subscription side into the new membership model were mainly tech and to some extent, more personnel. On the subscription side, it was mainly staff and systems and a few other things for the travel setup. I'd say they are not required to the same extent in 2025. However, what we didn't -- where we didn't spend money in 2024 was marketing. which is something that we will have to spend in 2025. So in short, I believe the model can only work if we grow the member base quickly. So it's critical that we grow fast. And in order to achieve that, I think we need to spend marketing money. I mean, we tried so far to do it without anything like going back to our mailing lists and so on. But we are already in the process of spending marketing money through digital marketing campaigns and others. So we're actually low budget at this point. So we are making sure it works or we're in a trial and error phase. But I think at some point over the next weeks and months, we will scale this up so that we see a bigger impact. And as always, with marketing investments or you can spend as much as you want, the more you spend, the better or the more result you will see. Having said that, we will try to balance that with profitability. I mean that's what I meant towards the end of my presentation. But we'll make sure we spend enough to grow enough, but not so much that our profitability is impacted further. So that's why I said it's a bit of a balancing act, and we can also steer it a little bit by how much we spend on marketing. But yes, in short, your assessment is correct. And what I just said is just adding a bit of additional thoughts around your correct statement.

All right. Interesting. Okay. And then my next question is a bit on the macro picture. I've seen that the air travel demand is quite solid also going into 2025, even though there's a recession in the European countries. Air travel remains high, but luxury spending, for example, Louis Vuitton, et cetera, we've seen the stock react as well has gone down. So especially in your niche of luxury travel, which combines sort of both of those general topics, do you see any demand downturn or even stable demand or even uplift, especially in your community? Is there anything you can say for 2025 with that?

Yes. So I mean, I if I speak more broadly than ASMALLWORLD travel in general or luxury travel in general, I think we're still seeing robust demand on the same level as sort of '23. We're also seeing price points being maintained by hotels. So in that sense, going beyond ASMALLWORLD looking at the larger luxury travel industry, I see it actually still in quite a solid position, although some people are worried, but we haven't really seen it translate into the numbers everywhere or anywhere that the numbers are still very strong. For ASMALLWORLD specifically, we are -- since we are not in terms of size representative of the larger market, but we're still more playing a market share gain, meaning like we try to steal business from other services. Even though the market is stagnant, I still think we can grow. I mean one example is ASMALLWORLD Bespoke Travel that I mentioned earlier. So we have now built a setup where we can easily add independent contractors, meaning travel agents that basically just pay on a work for us on a commission basis into our setup. And we've seen quite a bit of demand of people that are maybe not super happy with where they are right now or for other reasons, look at another place to come to. And so what I'm saying is even though the market overall might not be growing, if we're adding people to ASMALLWORLD, which I think if we can, we will actually be able to grow that part of the business despite the market just maybe not growing as much. So to summarize it, overall, I don't see the market in general going in a negative direction. Luxury travel still looks solid. And I believe we, as ASMALLWORLD can still, even in a market that might not grow that much, gain market share and grow our business in this market. At the moment, I can see we don't have any other questions. I'm just going to wait maybe for someone to see if they raise their hand. No, it doesn't look like it. Okay. Well, in that case, I would also like to use this forum to thank everyone who attended or is listening to this for your interest in ASMALLWORLD right now and over the years and also use this as an opportunity to say thank you for everyone who has been part of the ASMALLWORLD journey for the last 8 years. It was an extremely exciting and enjoying ride for myself, and I wish the organization and my successor all the best. I will still be with the company for this handover for a few weeks, but will leave towards the beginning of April and wish ASMALLWORLD and say my successor all the best. So thank you for listening in today, and have a great day.