Atome Plc (ATOM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the ATOME Energy PLC Investor Presentation. [Operator Instructions] The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company will review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I would like to submit the following poll. And if you could give that your kind attention, I'm sure the company would be most grateful. And I would now like to hand over to CEO, Olivier Mussat. Good afternoon, sir.

Good afternoon, and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you very much for joining us at this investor mid-update. So I think a fair amount of you have already been some of his -- seen some of his presentations. And really, the aim of this particular presentation is to go a little bit deeper into the fertilizer market. As we've recently announced, Terje Bakken joined the team just over a month ago, and he really brings a wealth of experience under -- in the fertilizer market and understanding the ammonia and especially the green ammonia opportunity. So with that, I will start going for the usual disclaimers that many of you have seen. A little quick slide on expressing the progress since IPO. Some of you who were here at the IPO remember that our intention was to get to FID on about 80 megawatts of projects. So now we are actually on fast track to get to 120 megawatts of FID by this summer. And the -- and we will start producing at -- by mid-2025. So we have obviously ordered our first electrolyzer for mobility. We have appointed our owner's engineer. We have bought the land. And now we have Urbas and Casale appointed, who are currently in the middle of design and engineering and actually going a little bit ahead of schedule. We have Natixis as financial adviser as well as IDB Invest. So IDB Invest, it's the Inter-American Development Bank, which is a development financial institution, exactly like the World Bank but focused on Latin America. So Europe has EBRD, Asia has ADB, and Latin America has the IDB. So we're quite excited that we joined the financial advisory engagement to help put together the debt package with Natixis, and on top of that, they provided some grant to be able to continue on the environment and social study. We have also created a new JV, opened a new geography in Costa Rica, called the National Ammonia Corporation that I will discuss a little bit later in this presentation. And our most recent news has been the appointment of Terje. So just -- this slide shows a little bit of what ATOME is all about, what is our presence. As I've discussed on to the left, this is the progress on the Villeta project and how we are, again, in a very infrastructure-like manner, very -- we are being very, very methodical about the way we develop our projects, making sure that we have all of the best parties possible, inching away at all of the studies necessary at putting the financial packages together and to the point that we will be able to get to a final investment decision as well as attract the widest ranges of off-takers, infrastructure investors and lenders and be in the best position to deliver what will be the largest green ammonia projects in Latin America by 2025 in Villeta. So our management, I think a number of you have seen this already as to our Chairman, Peter. We have James as Director of ATOME Paraguay. And obviously, he's been doing an incredible job now that we have Villeta well on track, and we continue to have advanced discussion on the further 300 megawatts of Yguazu. Mary-Rose de Valladares is our non-exec, who is based in the U.S. who used to lead the International Energy Agency's ammonia -- hydrogen unit, apologies. And our most recent team member and leader Terje, who comes with 35 years' experience in the fertilizer sector. What we have to remember that we absolutely believe in the green hydrogen, green ammonia economy, that will span across all of agriculture, energy and transport and where ammonia will be used to transport hydrogen as well. But the market today and the early cash flow for us will be completely on the fertilizer market. Hence, Terje's experience being quite key. So with that said, I will now pass on to Terje so he can introduce himself and go into more specifics of the ammonia markets.

Thank you, Olivier. So I'll give a couple of minutes' introduction to what I've been doing and a few years of experience or even decades. I started in the fertilizer business in 1988 when I started to work for then Norway's dominant company in Norsk Hydro, which later on the agri side became Yara International. So I was traveling around the world and involved and engaged in trade and marketing, quite operational, quite hands-on doing offtake agreements, which then for Norsk Hydro was more like marketing offtake agreements being the offtaker. I was engaged on the ammonia trade and shipping side, which brought me to Hong Kong in 1993. And later, I moved to Singapore, where I was more on the fertilizer side, I think, in Asia getting to understand the trends of emerging markets and premium fertilizers. So -- because if you meet an Indonesian farmer producing chilis, you understand that their requirement is quite different than if you are a grain buyer in the Midwest. I moved to Brussels in 2000, where I was heading Yara's ammonia trade and shipping business. We also invested a lot in terminals around the world. And notably, we had 20 different vessels, several of them programmed or linked to longer-term cost arrangements that optimize Yara's assets. These are things now that being with ATOME, I see also how we are looking into the same engagements. Then I was promoted to Yara's management in 2005. And Yara is among the leading fertilizer producers and actors in the world probably now #2 or 3 on the list in terms of turnover, but it has around $25 billion in turnover, and it's clearly the company that is more into marketing and specialty fertilizers. So good to have that background. And then when I started, I was also on the industrial side, which is anything that is used, not being fertilizers like nitrogen for explosives or even the AdBlue, which is nitrogen used for NOx abatement of heavy diesel trucks. So then moving on later in 2009, picking up another management position being Head of Supply and Trade. So really back into the big numbers, the big volumes, again, and then I left Yara and started with EuroChem. It brought me to Zug in Switzerland, where I was part of the Management Board. I was Head of Marketing and Sales, so a global position. One of the things that I would highlight from that area is that EuroChem was setting up in Latin America becoming international global. EuroChem today is a $12 billion turnover company but with EBITDA percentage overall, 25% to 45%, so a very strong supply base. And it was, therefore, quite opportune to go into Brazil and Latin America, Argentina, and bringing with me important experience there now in the work that I'm doing with ATOME. I left EuroChem in 2019, and I decided to do something different. I was then in the sustainability area with a circular company basically recycling nutrients, producing green energy. Now I'm back in Oslo again. Happy to be with ATOME and seeing that my previous experience certainly that matches with the opportunity that we have in the world and particularly interested, of course, in Paraguay. So a couple of pictures showing fertilizer trends and perspective. So with my years in the fertilizer business, I've also clearly seen how it is changing. And I will start with the right-hand upper -- the top right-hand figure, which shows the importance of fertilizers because if it ran for fertilizers, 50% of population wouldn't have enough calories. But that -- therein also lies the challenge going forward because we don't have another Latin America to use for food production. So the agricultural markets needs to be more efficient and for fertilizers, we also need to have more nutrient use efficiency as we talk about. There are 3 key nutrients in the fertilizer business, it's nitrogen, and it's potash and it's phosphate, so NPK. N nitrogen is what we have here, again, related to the same figure, it should also be noted that the fertilizer world and agriculture in general, have some challenges with sustainability, obviously, agriculture being a main emitter of carbon more than 30% of greenhouse gases comes from agriculture. And the fertilizer part is largely gray as we call it. So it brings around 2% of the CO2 emissions every year. And that's why, of course, new projects like ours is very important. So we see a big challenge because we need to feed the world. We need to bring 60% more biomass to feed 10 billion population and we can only use same land, less water, so uncutting then the greenhouse gas emission at the same way. It's a big, big challenge. So that's why, of course, the world is demanding new solutions ATOME's way. The left-hand side then shows how government looks at this and a lot of initiatives and a lot of incentive programs in the world, how you're going to tax CO2 emissions, how the CBAM which is a Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism in Europe is coming already into play in 2025. And of course, the ETS schemes of this world will tax industry. So really, the legislator of this world and also then clearly have a demand pool represented with society. The third growth is shown at the bottom of this slide. And there, we see the potential new segments for ammonia, not only as a fertilizer or to be used in industrial applications, but also as a potential shipping fuel or even to be used as a carrier or as a resource for power generation, where you could combine with hydrogen or coal to have more green solutions even as a hydrogen carrier because when you transport ammonia, it's energy dense. So it makes actually sense to when you see Europe as a future hydrogen hub to transport ammonia to feed the hydrogen market as they develop as ammonia is the most efficient way to transport energy. Now -- so these are then showing a huge potential and a challenge -- so that's why, of course, our project is coming at the right time. But let's not forget about the agriculture and the food industry, because even though you have these new segments, we have enough challenges to be a fertilizer company because, as you know, the consumers, they pull the retailers like Whole Foods or Sainsbury's or Walmart. And they, of course, put new solutions and expectations to the food industry who again pull new solutions from the farmers and the fertilizer companies. So we see lots of initiatives here. So the demand drive, which I probably find as interesting as anything energy transport including, is what's happening in sustainable foods. You see that companies like Nestle and Knorr here, there is a quote by the Global Vice President in Knorr, that, obviously, they are really challenging themselves to find new sustainable solutions, even partnering with WWF and Nestle, of course, when they look at their coffee production today, I understand it used to be 8 tonnes of CO2 per tonne of coffee. Today, it's down to 3 tonnes of CO2 per tonne of coffee, but going forward, they even have tougher requirements being negative. I also like to highlight that even though I've -- during last 10 years, and I was a Board member in fertilizer Euro, and of course, we saw the changes. We saw legislative changing. We saw consumers changing. We saw good companies demanding different solutions. And of course, industrial sectors and industrial nitrogen also uses probably 30% of the current production of 190 million tonnes. So that is seen -- so I see the demand side, and I see that it's changing, but I just want to highlight that with my background and experience, I clearly also understand, besides the demand drivers also the supply drivers. So when you do trade when you're active in the markets, you see that sometimes markets correct. And that's why, of course, to have robust projects which are profitable on the average, but also are able then to handle the cyclicality and the values of the commodities is important. And again, that is 1 of the characteristics I really like with ATOME's Paraguay project. The other side of that story, of course, is that there is a market-driven opportunities and the fertilizer world can be split between what is supply driven, what is commodity-driven standard products like urea, which is the most traded fertilizer and then more premium specialties like nitrogen liquids that would go for fruit, vegetables, where there are quite different premiums. And whether you are in the picture, whether you are in the Broadacre, in the middle of Kansas, or if you are producing tulips in Netherlands, obviously, it's quite different sales prospects. And this is why I also think when we are now in Paraguay, we are very well positioned towards some attractive premium market segments also on the agricultural side. So the figure on the right shows different products, different agriculture, if you like, the sustainability part, the green button or the green triangle is where we are. And over time, definitely, no question, we will be able to have considerable premium margins. So you could use this figure also to show what is gray ammonia produced even with natural gas or hydrocarbons, blue ammonia, which has less emission but still is questionable in certain manners and our green ammonia, which is coming through, quite straightforward technology. And as the yellow 1 could be organic ammonia produced by microbes which is having probably the highest netback because it can be used in organic industry or organic agriculture. But what we see going forward is that the sustainability labels are even going to be more important than the organic labels. I've seen different prices here per ton of nitrogen. The last year, we would probably be around $1,000 per tonne nitrogen for the lower part for the green part or for the green part -- if it's a premium liquid product, we could see that being 10x higher. And if you were in the organic segment, it could be 2 to 3x higher. So quite big differentiations on how you position. But what is important, of course, is that we have optionality, so the Paraguayan project is not 1 thing. It's not 1 concept. It's a lot of opportunities. And I must say myself, obviously, we can supply trucks, ammonia -- dedicated ammonia trucks to neighboring industry that has a requirement for ammonia as a raw material. We can even in a scaled-up scenario, first phase, second phase, export ammonia from the river mouth in further south by going barges on dedicated export tanks. But I must say also what really attracts me now and where I think the key focus for ATOME is then to focus local agriculture in Paraguay. And we are also at the entrance of southern part of Brazil. And here, we can upgrade the ammonia into different fertilizers. We can produce and transport dry fertilizers instead of having liquids. And the key point is optionality. Yes, it's going to be a simple solution, but it's also very clear that, that flexibility is going to be very important for ATOME going forward. So -- why? Well, Brazil, as a reference, this is showing the fertilizer imports into Brazil, there is consumption of around 45 million tonnes, an import of 39 million tonnes. So you see when Brazil is providing 20% to 25% of the calories to the world, relying on 90% import on the nitrogen, this is itself not sustainable. So they like to have better self-sufficiency, Paraguay the same way, importing 100% of the fertilizers exporting 80% of their agricultural produce. So this is why to be in the inland in South America actually is a quite interesting position to have. So showing you a couple of more slides there. You see nitrogen is particularly important. Russia being the biggest supplier export today of nitrogen into Mercosur, Brazil and Paraguay and Argentina. And as we also see on the left side, we see more sugarcane, we see more bioethanol where you use nitrates. So these are then certainly adding to the growth potential, the interesting business case that ATOME has. So that was my short intro on fertilizer perspectives and hand it back to you, Olivier.

Thank you, Terje. And actually, I'll mention there is a couple of questions which came up as you were discussing. So clearly, people have been engaged. So thank you for that, everyone. So just -- I'll just go quickly so we can move on to the Q&A. But so -- as a reminder, so this is a slide really about Villeta. And what you are seeing on this slide, individual red square is the land that we bought just across individual green square, which is ANDES's substation of electricity provider. The bigger, let's say, red circles show you the different industrial clusters where you would have your fertilizer offtakers. So what you are seeing in individual circle, it's basically the first draft from Urbas on the Villeta plant. The big green building is where you house all of the electrolyzers. The white towers are essentially the air separation units, which then going into the ammonia loop and on the top right, the 2 large storage facility for ammonia. Clearly, as you heard earlier, it's not just about looking at ammonia itself, but being able to go down the value chain of fertilizers where you can actually increase your revenue depending on the products that you are going for. So as I mentioned earlier, the project is completely on track. And so we're pretty excited to see how we are essentially progressing and delivering as we said we would. And that, at the moment, we are pretty much in the middle as well of the financing engagement as we're getting prepared to release the information memo package to the prospective lenders and asset level investors for Villeta. Phase 2 of Yguazu, which is 300 megawatts. If you go to ANDE's website, you will see actually ANDE plan of development over the next few years. They're going to invest nearly over $1 billion of capital across the assets, including transmission line, upgrading their turbines. So just to show that ANDE is also making a lot of investments ensuring the reliance of the power supply and increasing the use of power domestically. A final point is also Yguazu. So ANDE has -- Paraguay now made the last repayment for its Itaipu loan, which is the 30-year loan that Paraguay was repaying back into Brazil to fund the CapEx of the project and that's going to obviously create a lot of financial and fiscal freedom for Paraguay, for ANDE to invest more across the power system, which will then create more opportunities and also keep the power prices at a low level, which will keep us competitive. As a reminder, the price of power represents about 70% of the total cost of a project just the same way that the price of gas represents 70% to 90% of the cost for gray ammonia. We're also progressing on the mobility side. And here in this picture, you are seeing the CPH2 electrolyzer, which is currently being built for mobility. This is a picture also where you see the management team of ANDE who came to do a visit which was both a technical visit to discuss about the Villeta and Villeta project, but also seeing what was going on, on the mobility side. And the expectation is that we will be generating, obviously, small-scale hydrogen for mobility by the end of this year, and it's a good test run as well for us as to -- as we're going to be importing a fair amount of material for the bigger projects. So the Costa Rica joint venture of NAC, the National Ammonia Corporation was announced earlier this year. And this is essentially, we're joining up forces with a regional developer of Central America called Cavendish. Cavendish is backed by the Purdy Group, sorry. It's an automotive group, making over $400 million of revenue a year, which had a green energy arm. So there have been operating cars and hydrogen fueling station, but we didn't have any experience around the agri side. And in Costa Rica, in particular, the -- this is a country where agriculture is the third largest plan of the economy. They have to import all of the fertilizer. It's also a place where you have over 99% of renewable energy. So the idea for us is to leverage all of the lessons learned as well as the engineering lessons learned with Villeta to be able to accelerate a project of hopefully roughly the same size as Villeta so we can pretty much copy paste in Paraguay -- from Paraguay into Costa Rica as our first project. So at the moment, we are continuing to progress the technical and commercial discussions. And hopefully, we will be able to share some announcements over the coming months. For Iceland, so for those of you who have been here since day 1, obviously, Iceland was supposed to get to a final investment decision on the first phase of about 30 megawatts by the end of this year. The crisis of Ukraine has delayed things, and we've been pretty open consistently about this with the green aluminum sector asking for a lot more power from the grid in Iceland. So it has put pressure on the electricity price. So we continue to have very strong discussion with the government, with the Greenfield team. We're actually making progress as well on the shipping area because as far as we are concerned, as green shipping is really the growth opportunity for Iceland. So this project still continues. It's still clearly for us, it makes very little commercial sense to sign up to a power purchase agreement where the price will be a little too high and not be as competitive as it could be. So this is a process which is still being matured, and we are still very much involved in Iceland with Greenfield. So for us, also when we're looking at other opportunities, and this is a slide that some of you would have seen before, what are we looking for? We're looking for geographies where the government is fully aligned in pushing the green economy. We don't want to be putting projects where government doesn't want to do these types of projects, where there is green renewable potential. And if it's not already there, how cheap and how quickly can you build it and where you also have a strong domestic agricultural sector. So you have your demand very close to you. One of the -- like at any infrastructure investments, you want to reduce the amount of risk that you cannot control. And although today, green hydrogen, the green ammonia economy is growing extremely fast, the reality is there are still a number of discussions which are being had, there are a number of investments which still to be made, for example, in the port of Rotterdam, where the ambitions of Europe to import large quantities of hydrogen or ammonia are great but the facilities are not yet there. So if we're going to be producing a product quickly, we need to have a market very quickly because speed is what gives us the most advantage as the economy grows extremely fast. So this is the slide where we show what we have achieved and what's the future outlook. So as we discussed earlier, so 2021 -- December 2021, 31, this is when we listed. So we've achieved quite a bit since, especially on Villeta. We are continuing -- we are very much on track as far as Villeta goes and as far as the build-out and then after 2025, looking at how can we expand Villeta as well. When it comes to Yguazu, so we are hopeful that we will get to a power purchase agreement fully signed this year. And so that we can start the engineering and design, which will enable us to start production around the end of 2026. And when it comes to Iceland and Costa Rica, so -- we have, obviously, JV-ed with Green Fuel where we have 75% of Green Fuel. We have creating NAC in just a couple of months ago, where we have 50% of NAC. And then it's all over work about securing our first Power Purchase Agreement and then starting fee to get into a fight. So that is the end of the presentation, and then I will move on to the Q&A.

Olivier, that's great, and Terje as well. Thank you very much indeed for your presentation this afternoon. If I may, I will just bring up your cameras there. [Operator Instructions] But just while the team take a few moments to review those questions that were submitted already, I would like to remind you that a recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published Q&A can be accessed via your investor dashboard. Olivier, Terje, we did receive a number of pre-submitted questions ahead of today's event. And as you can see there in the Q&A tab, we've also received a number of questions throughout your presentation this afternoon as well. So firstly, thank you to all of those on the call for taking the time to submit their questions. And guys, if I could just hand back to you to respond to those questions where it's appropriate to do so, and then I'll pick up from you at the end.

Sure. Thank you very much. So I'll start with a couple -- maybe I'll start with some of the technical one, and I'll let Terje talk about the market ones. So one of them was, okay, electrolyzer prices and lead times are still not looking favorable. How are we combating this? So we are using baseload hydropower, which allows us to use alkaline technology, which is more than 80 years old, very well proven. Because we don't have some of the restrictions that if we were using solar and wind, we would have because of the intermittency and variability of that power. And what we are seeing is, number one, obviously, because it's a very mature technology, there is a lot of capacity out there. And the other side is because we are essentially getting ready to order them this year, and we have already gone through a first round of -- on the electrolyzer costing with Urbas and Casale. We are in a very good place because a number of projects have been delayed, and they made a fair amount of promises where clearly, with a very fast rising cost of power in Europe especially, has delayed a number of projects where no amount of subsidy will be able to alleviate the fact that in some places, power is over $250 a megawatt, whilst our cost of power is in the low 30s. So we have both the fact that we can use existing tech using large existing manufacturing capacity at a point in time and ready to order whilst other projects are seeing a fair amount of delay. The -- there was one question on update on Costa Rica. Is it a domestic player on export opportunity? As we express for us, we always start by looking at what is the domestic play. In Iceland, -- in the end, it's really a domestic play for ammonia for shipping. When it comes to Paraguay, it's really -- you are in the middle of the world's largest market for fertilizer. And when it comes to Costa Rica, it's also a very strong domestic play, which is also close to Mexico and North America for export. But you also have the advantage by being -- have access to both coasts, so you could export either to the Asian market or to the European market. So this is really some of the, let's call them, advantages that you are able to optimize the market and possibly make Terje's work a little bit harder as he is chasing the absolute most premium that he can get. There was one question as well on the NEOM project. So some of you may know in Saudi Arabia, you have what -- a project called NEOM City, which is backed by the Saudi state, and in areas -- a green hydrogen, green ammonia export project led by ACWA and Air Products. And that project has just announced FID, or Final Investment Decision, just a week ago. It's an $8 billion project, where the offtake is sold to Air Products and going into Europe. So that's just an expression to say that actually, very large projects are getting done and the cost of this project is also due to the fact that they have to build their own power generation, which we don't have. We are buying existing excess power. So it's just showing how quickly that market is being created. Clearly, being the state of Saudi Arabia helps you do things at a much, much larger scale. But it really shows you that if we can move fast, because we will be producing faster earlier than anybody else, puts us into a really good position. I believe there was another question. As it's hard to find it, apologies. Sorry, I'm just trying to find it. It's a little bit -- I think there was a -- look, I must have -- well, I can't find that development. Apologies. So there was another question, which is the last couple of years, ammonia prices at over $800 a tonne made the economics of green hydrogen ammonia quite appealing. How do the economics look when falling -- when prices are getting closer to $500 a tonne again? So I think this is just both -- I'll answer the commercial, and then I'll let Terje take over the actually specific aspect of it. So because our cost of power is very, very competitive, we remain very competitive at around $500 a tonne compared to the rest of the market, remembering that we are in places which have to import. So the price of Saudi, maybe the price of Saudi, gray ammonia. The reality is if you add a fair amount of logistic cost and by the time it gets there and it pays all the taxes, we would have a natural advantage. But then, of course, there's a question of premium of gray versus green, which is proving up quite quickly. But then, Terje, I'll ping it back to you as you had presented earlier showing some of the volatility and the linkages to gas price and global prices.

Thanks, Olivier. So I think it's a little like when you see the ammonia markets, the nitrogen and potash prices going sky high in 2022, Europe ammonia prices selling at $1,250 per tonne. It's natural that you have corrections. So this is also how the commodities like in ammonia and urea is trader supply driven. So when you come from a high, you don't go down to an average, then you go down to a low before you come back and find your average pricing situation or reality again. So I think it's -- you will always see these swings. What is important to see is the fundamentals when it comes to cost of production and what is required. For instance, in Europe, to understand the ETS, the CBAM, the tax -- how the carbon is going to be taxed. And that's what we are busy doing as well, of course. So we can see that our robust cost base can be positioned clearly then in that attractive scenario.

Thank you, Terje. And actually, it also ties to an extent of the fact that us being able to produce faster enables us to take, let's say, most of the premium. And there's been a fair amount of discussion around while 30% of the world's ammonia comes from Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, what happens when Ukraine either -- the Ukrainian conflict hopefully stops. I think the reality is this has created long-lasting damages to the entire ammonia industry as well. And we are seeing a number of ammonia factories in Europe being shut down indefinitely. So you will see a very strong move into the prices, not only the gray, I mean, obviously, green ones are maturing very fast. And as we are seeing the demand move on green, we will benefit from that, but also on the gray side, a number of supplies being taken out of the market indefinitely will also play a significant role. And to that extent, it links to [ Chris H.'s ] question, saying it will take some time before you are making significant income. Until then, how will you be funding operation, will you need more capital? So the reality is these are 20-year investments like any infrastructure investment. And they -- what you are doing is you are building something which will generate cash flow for a very long time in the future. And if you look at the way renewable energy companies are valued or even oil and gas companies are valued. So for example, an oil and gas company is valued after you've discovered -- you've made small investment. You've discovered a large amount of reserves. These reserves have value as they will be is produced over time. If you are building a large industrial capacity, what you have is -- the value that you are creating is not just the steel. It's actually all of the contracts that you have signed whether it's the power purchase agreement, whether it's the market uptake on the other side that you're creating. It's also the optionality that you are creating, which has an advantage. And if I had to take some very, very rough numbers, well, one business is very much driven on future NPV and other business is also on multiples of EBITDA. And if -- and when you look at the valuation of renewable projects, whether it's solar -- I mean, let's take solar, for example, projects which are ready to build, have a certain valuation and projects which are just ready to produce have a valuation which is much, much higher. So you say, well, how do we raise capital with -- in these scenarios? The reality is when the infrastructure investors that we are talking to at the asset level, and the financiers to do -- who do the debt are looking at that future cash flow to create either the leverage of the incentive to invest to fund the project. So as we've said since day 1, and obviously, all of the management is completely incentivized, we have all put our own money at stake at the same price as the IPO and as the same price as any other investor. Just to say there are no sweet deals, and we are all fully aligned with the investors at the PLC level. We are trying to make sure that we have the absolute best mix of debt and equity at the project level. And then we can leverage the fact that we are a PLC to be able to get the best possible deal at the asset level and arbitrage. So this is really the financing structuring, which is ongoing, which is completely common in green infrastructure finance and which is why we have the Inter-American Development Bank, as I mentioned earlier, as well as Natixis helping us put the financing package together. So there's one question for Terje as well. So why did you join ATOME? And how do you view your strengths of the project compared to everything else that you have seen so far?

So first of all, I mean, privately, obviously, it's important to do what you like to do, what is interesting and where there are changes. So it's during my still few years of activity, I'd like to see companies that can make a difference and make a change. And why ATOME? Well, obviously, I think there are 3 things. First of all, I think the team, the founder with Olivier and the team in general is competent and switched on and ambitious, which you need to be. The second point is the cost base always, I'm a practical guy. I'm not a dreamer. I've seen how things works in the world and to always have the cost base and the robustness is important. And thirdly, I think it's the demand side, the market position. So when you are in South America, when you are on the -- in the inside of South America, you will also see less cyclicality because there are industrial usages there, which brings less cyclicality and obviously, the agricultural demand, which is very interesting. And as I say, when you have the legislators that push different solutions, and then you have the food companies demanding different positions, I think the agricultural sector is going to be quite attractive besides, of course, the new segments that we see coming.