BCL Industries Limited (524332) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Q2 FY '22 Earnings Conference Call of BCL Industries Limited, hosted by InCred Equities. [Operator Instructions]. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Nitin Awasthi from InCred Equities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Before we begin, I would like to thank the management for giving us this opportunity to host them on this con call. And secondly, we would like to read out a short cautionary statement before we begin. Some of the statements made in today's con call may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ from those anticipated. Such statements are based on management's beliefs as well as assumptions made by and the information currently available to the management. Audience are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements in making any investment decisions. The focus of today's earnings con call is purely to educate and bring awareness about the company's fundamental businesses and the financial quarter under review. That's all. Over to you, sir.

Right, good morning, everyone, and thank you for the introduction, Nitin. We would like to welcome everyone for this earnings call for the first half and second quarter of the financial year '21-'22. Before we begin, I'd like to wish you and your loved ones a very happy Diwali, and we hope you all the wealth and happiness in the new year. For the ones who are participating for the first time, let me give you a brief background about the company. BCL Industries Limited is a diversified business house in manufacturing and development, with business interests spread across a variety of industries namely edible oils and vanaspati, distillery, and real estates. The company started out in 1976 with a solvent extraction plant of 40 tonnes per day, extracting oil from rice bran. Over the years the company has grown to become one of the largest edible oil manufacturers in North India, having a capacity of 1,020 tonnes per day. Furthermore, we forayed into the business of distillation by setting up our own grain-based distillery of extra neutral alcohol of 100 KLPD, along with bottling plant in Bhatinda, Punjab. The plant was later doubled to capacity, 200 KLPD as the business grew. In order to grow the distillation business, the company is now installing a new state of the art distillery at 200 KLPD distillery with 10-megawatt cogeneration plant in Kharagpur and is now working towards doubling the Bhatinda capacity again from 200 KLPD to 400 KLPLD. Now talking about the key financial highlights for the first quarter, the total income for the quarter was at 464 crores, which increased about 42% year-on-year and 3% quarter-on-quarter. EBITDA for the quarter was 32 crores which increased by around 58% year-on-year and 15% quarter-on-quarter. EBITDA margins were at 6.89%. Net profit was approximately 21 crores with an increase of 77% year-on-year and 24% quarter-on-quarter. And the PAT margin of the company were reported 4.5%. In the first half of the financial year 2022, the total income stood at 916 crores which is a growth of approximately 52% compared to the first half of the previous financial year. EBITDA stood at 60 crores, which is a 59% increase and margins were reported at 6.53%. PAT for the first half was about 38 crores, which represents a staggering increase of 101% compared to the same time last year and PAT margin stood at 4.12%. Coming on to the operational highlights for the second quarter of the financial year '21-'22, I would like to start with the Distillery segment. The revenues from the distillery segment, quarter 2 stood at approximately 122 crores. BCL continues to be one of the largest grain-based ethanol suppliers in the nation with a tentative supply of 4.5 crores of ethanol in this current sugar year. The company is experiencing great demand for both EN and ethnol and has improved margins due to an increase in size of DDGS and ENA in the market. The company has also obtained the environmental experience from MoEF and bank sanction from [indiscernible] Bank for the project to expand the current Bhatinda unit from 200 KLPD to 400 KLPD. The advances to the vendors have been released and the civil work will start by [indiscernible] . The company hopes to commence production in this plant by November of 2022. We expect to bring -- post expansion, our Bhatinda distillery would be 400 KL which would be one of the largest plants in the entire country of grain-based distillery. The work construction between Bengal is also in full swing despite record breaking rains this year. The team is working tirelessly to ensure the commissioning of the unit by January 2022. With regards to the Edible Oil segment, the revenue of the Edible Oil segment for quarter 2 was approximately at 339 crores. We're experiencing strong demand for our products in this segment, thanks to the consistencies and the quality of products, and the undisturbed supply chain that the company offers. With this government's focus on making India for the Edible Oil sector, the company expects to keep increasing its revenue and capacity utilization from the edible oil unit. Lastly, in the Real Estate segment, our company recorded revenue of around 4 crores for the quarter. In an attempt to reduce the financial burden of the company, we will continue to utilize the revenues from the real estate scale to liquidate debt, which is visible in the year-on-year results. I would now like to open the floor for questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question from Dipesh Sancheti from Manya Finance.

First of all, congratulations to the management for such a great results. My question is, first, what is the share of revenues which we have in West Bengal refinery -- the West Bengal ethanol plant?

So the company holds 75% equity.

75% equity, okay. And is there any -- I mean, any plans of acquiring the rest of the 25% also?

None as of yet, none as of yet.

Okay, so what I understand is that we will be -- we are having a current capacity of 200 KLPD, by January 2021, it will become 400 KLPD, and by November 2022, 600 KLPD.

No, no, no. I'd like to clarify. So in Bathinda, the current capacity is up 200 KLPD, which we will be doubling. For that, the environmental clearance and the bank sanction is in place and the orders have been placed to various vendors and the advances have also been released. So this Bathinda plant will be double to 400 KLPD by November of next year. And the Svaksha plant we'll be commissioning a capacity of 200 KLPD by January of 2022. We'll come into where we expect it to come into full production by then. And we hope to add another 100 KL to that Svaksha plant by December next year.

Okay. So by December 2022, we will have around 700 KLPD.

Yes.

Great. And also one more question that what about -- in the last conference, you had said something -- I mean you had hinted something about a GAIL deal coming out of about 500 KLPD. How close are we to that?

See, the company has applied and it's a company -- GAIL is taking their time in evaluating all the bids, and there has been no update from that segment. So...

But they haven't given it to anyone else, right?

Not that we're aware of.

Okay. So it's still in line.

Yes.

That's great, okay. And one more question is what about the revision of ethanol prices, which generally happens in December?

So the new rates for this year -- for the next year are not out yet. So I can't comment on that. Whereas the new tender is out for 479 crore liters of ethanol being supplied.

That will be consuming our entire capacity.

Yes, 479, I think, we'll bid around 4 crores to 4.5 crores again for our Bhatinda plant. And once the Svaksha unit comes into production, we'll bid around 2 crores in that plant as well.

Okay. So when are we expecting the revision of prices generally? I mean I just want the approximate date. When does it happen? Does it happen in the first week or the last week of December?

There's no fixed date for it to come out. It should come out in the next coming weeks.

It should come out in the next coming weeks. Okay. So we will be announcing that in our announcements?

I think that is public for everyone to see. I don't think we will make a separate announcement for that.

Okay. Just one question about your real estate. How close are we to complete whatever inventory was there we were supposed to clear it off and get that into our business? How -- what is the update on that?

Around, I think it takes us another about 7, 8 months, I'm getting to an year. It's a slow -- I mean, the inventory is selling off at one pace consistently. So maybe another year to 8 months, I don't know, around that time.

Okay. And what about the edible oil prices? I mean with edible oil prices going up, I mean, the raw material prices going up, have we revised our end product prices?

Of course the prices are revised on a daily basis depending on various markets. Of course, the Indonesian and the Malaysian market has a role to play, the Chicago Exchange has a role to play and the local market has a role to play. And accordingly, depending on the raw material prices, we revised our finish product prices on a daily basis.

And we are selling only through our branded products. We're not selling it through -- I mean, we are not doing any contract manufacturing for any other bigger company.

Very minimal contract manufacturing is being done from Markfed which is a Punjab government undertaking. We're manufacturing some vanaspati for them. But that quantity is minimum. Besides that, no other contract manufacturing is being done now.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [Anchal Vardarom] from Edelweiss Wealth Research

Congratulations on the good set of numbers. I have a couple of questions. First one, on the raw materials side. So with the heavy and the irregular rains we have seen this year and which has resulted in the rice prices increasing in the third quarter, so do you see that to be in the broken rice as well? And do you see the raw material cost going up in the coming quarters? That is the first one.

See, broken rice prices have increased a little. But now we expect milling to start across India, and especially in the states -- in the Northern Indian states. So we don't expect a significant increase in the broken rice prices.

So what I understand is that even if the rice prices would have increased by some percentage, the intensity of increase in the broken rice would be much lesser as compared to the rice.

Yes. Because see, there is -- when you come into the rice milling business, rice miller usually looks at all of his by-product prices and his long grain price. And byproduct prices, for example, the size for rice husk is at an all-time high. The price of rice wine DOC is at an all-time high. So when those prices are at an all-time high and milling has started and if there's more that's broken, then there's less pressure on the prices of broken rice to increase. So we believe that will work in our favor and we don't expect that broken rice will shoot up.

That's really helpful. And sir, ONE more on the DDGS. Like I understand in the first half, we had a good realization, particularly in the second quarter, we had a good realization of DDGS, which has actually helped us in the margins. But recently, we have seen that there is a steep correction in the soya prices. So I just wanted to understand how it will be impacting our business and do we also see some seasonality in the realization of DDGS across quarters?

You're very correct. The analysis is to the point that once we import for -- so DOC was allowed there has been a revision in the prices of soya DOC and DDGS in the Indian market. So right now, the prices have -- are downwards. But DDGS prices have always been quite seasonal. When the prices are low, we've seen that even the demand is low. So we don't really mind it. We can stock up on our DDGS and sell it when the prices have been revised up. So it's nothing to be worried about, but yes, the prices have been corrected significantly.

That's really helpful because one point for asking was that we are still a net importer of DDGS. So if we have a facility to hold it till the prices increase, that would be really helpful.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Pritesh Vora from Mission Holdings.

So sir, I wanted to understand the risk involved in the business as the -- as unprecedented people are putting up facilities to produce ENA and ethanol, will that -- structurally there will be a issue for you down the line that the raw material price is higher and the arbitrage we make between the raw material price and the final price may diminish over a period of time because the full size bound to escalate inflation-wise. So how do you actually price your product? It is a fixed price product then how do you control the raw material inflation?

Firstly -- and I'd like to make a few points in that statement and the question you've asked. Firstly, you've said that there's been a lot of ENA and ethanol plants coming up. I'd like to make a correction here. Out of the new capacity that is being installed in the country, very little to minimal capacity is diverted towards ENA, because the rules and regulations for setting up a ENA plant have not been eased. The state laws are still stringent and for you to get a D2 license from the state [indiscernible] the environmental laws have not been eased if you want to set up an ENA plant. So out of the new capacity that is being installed, only we're seeing ethanol capacity. And that's where a company like us can benefit because all of our capacity is flexible capacity. We have the flexibility to shift between ENA and ethanol depending upon the market demand, and that is where our expertise lies. And yes, this could be -- see, I don't see much raw material inflation pressure coming into our industry very soon because as of today, the FCI and the other government organizations are still procuring up to 2 lakh metric tons of grains a day. And they have diverted a lot of this quantity towards the ethanol blending program. So when they give us the rice at INR 20, and they have a set price for ethanol, I think more or less the margins have been fixed for the year for a supplier like us. And that also works towards the benefit. And ENA has a great demand in this nation with the younger population drinking more, with a lot of industrial uses coming for ENA. And -- so we expect the ENA demand to keep increasing and we won't see much capacity coming into that segment. And the ENA prices are quite flexible and they revised on a monthly basis. And that trend will continue to go on.

But as you mentioned, the raw material price, right? Ultimately, what raw material price you buy it. So can you also dwell upon -- what is the price differential between, say, ENA through molasses route and through the grain route? So if food price becomes higher, rice price and all that, will our molasses route will be a much cheaper? And then competition coming in, how do you differentiate that?

Yes, molasses ENA has been cheaper. This is a cheaper product. Comparing molasses ENA to grain ENA is like comparing a donkey to a horse. Many states, even Maharashtra, UP, states are banning molasses-based ENA for portable drinking. And this will be a trend that will go out throughout the nation. If you go through many developed nations, molasses-based ENA is not fit for human consumption. And as our disposable income increases in the country, that trend will continue in India. So we don't think that is a big of a threat.

So you are saying, there is a differentiation between grain and molasses-based ENA, but there is no difference if you produce the ethanol out of the grain route. So you will be structurally disadvantaged position for making ethanol.

Grain-based ethanol is cheaper than molasses-based ethanol. The government is procuring grain-based ethanol at a much cheaper rate.

Sorry, come back on the...

The grain-based ethanol in the country is at INR 51.55 whereas molasses-based ethanol is more expensive. The government...

So who decide their prices?

It's the Ministry of Petroleum.

So you are saying the same ethanol, if it is grain-based, it is cheaper than the molasses-based ethanol.

Yes.

Okay. So basically, this particular segment of a business is determined by the prices set by the ministry, right? There is no free pricing in that sector.

Of course, there is free pricing depending on the raw material prices. The ENA prices also grow and the ministry also looks at all the raw material prices and then they come up with a price. And they always take the industry perspective into view.

And my last question is, before I come in the queue, what is the percentage of ENA which you sell to the liquor manufacturer vis-a-vis the alcohol, which you send it to the IOL and fuel mixing? What is the percentage of volume you bifurcate between these 2 business?

Currently, about 60% of our product manufactured has been going towards the ethanol blending program. Out of the 40%, that is left over, about 70% to 60% is being utilized for potable industry, and the rest is going for industrial uses.

So 60% is for fuel mixing, is it?

Yes.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Vikram Vilas Waning from PhillipCapital.

So this West Bengal additional 100 KLPD distillery, I think we already have 200, so do we need additional environmental clearance for this 100 KLPD and most of these ancillary power and all would be ready. So incrementally, how much will be the CapEx for this additional 100 KLPD at West Bengal?

Yes. So yes, we will need another MoEF clearance for installing the 100 KLPD, the application for which has been submitted and is moving very well. And for the CapEx would be around INR 70 crores for the installation of 100 KLPD.

Okay, and second question regard is, how do we use the rice -- damaged rice or content so far? Or what will be the plan -- to going ahead, what would be the percentage of that raw material we will be using for incremental capacity? And is it based purely on tender base? Or is there any mechanism by which we'll take this rice from FCI?

See, the rice for FCI, we -- I think for this current sugar year, we utilized about 10,000 metric tons of FCI rice, which was not a much quantity as we wanted to experiment. We wanted to see how the policy is and we saw very good -- we saw that it was easy to manage and everything. And we might increase our quantity for this year, but we're still deciding.

Okay. And last question on market term, what is the DDGS price currently in rupees per kg?

It's around -- it depends on the protein in the DDGS. So our DDGS is currently being priced at around INR 24.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Dipesh Sancheti from Manya Finance.

Yes. Just a few follow-up questions, sir. First is, what is the consolidated debt right now? And by December 2022, when our 700 KLPD plant will be ready, what is the expected consolidated debt?

So the current consolidated debt on the company is, I think, close to 280 crores, which should increase to about 350 after all our plants, the loan has been taken for all the expansion.

It will increase by 350 or to 350?

To 350.

To 350. And what will be the average cost of funding?

The average cost of funding will be quite low. So the current cost of funding for our company is that MCLR, which is 7.3. And the further loans that will be taken for the expansion fall in this subvention scheme. So we are expecting around 4% cost of funding to those loans.

Okay. And right now, the 280 crores, which is the -- what is the cost of funding for that, average?

180, 180. That's 7.3.

Okay. And what about -- I mean are we looking at other crops also for our ethanol blending, like grains?

Yes. We are quite flexible in our production, which I think differentiates us from a lot of the other suppliers. And that all depends on the prices of the grains compared to how much starch a particular grain has. So currently, broken rice is in parity, and that's what we're using. But depending on the prices, we are always willing to change.

Okay. And that will not require any significant change in our machinery or...

No change at all.

No change at all. Great, thank you so much, sir. and first -- I mean, lastly, I would like to show my gratitude from all the shareholders -- all the retail shareholders of -- for giving INR 5 dividend and the promoters deciding not to opt for it. It really shows a lot of confidence. Thanks a lot.

The next question is from the line of [indiscernible], an Individual Investor.

So my question will be, by when do we expect to reach optimum capacity utilization in the edible oil segment? And what is the maximum revenue we can generate?

See, I think the maximum revenue that can be generated from this segment is closer to 1,200 crores to 1,300 crores. And we expect to reach the 100% capacity utilization another year because we're expecting a bumper master crop to come that will help in further capacity utilization of our oil main and a solvent extraction plant.

Okay. Sir, and I have a follow-up on this too. The government has been flatting the import duties on edible oil. So how will this impact our revenues and our margin as last year has been a good year for us in the edible oil segment? So does this mean that this is over for now?

No, no, no. See, the government has already revised the duty structure quite significantly with the Diwali pressure coming in. But what we and all the other edible oil sales in the country have been saying for a very long time is that such cuts in the duty does not actually carry forward to the end user. What we've always realized since India is the biggest importer, once the duties have cut, the international prices for the same increase to compensate for the same. So even after the duty structure was cut, the local edible prices, if you noticed, has not been decreased significantly. So the demand is great in the Indian market. We saw the capital consumption for edible oils has been increasing and will continue to increase. And so we don't expect this to impact our margins or realizations significantly.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Anchal Vadia from Edelweiss Wealth Research.

Kushal, so one more follow-up from my side. So you have spoken about the FCI rice procurement which we are trying on a pilot basis. So I just want to understand if we use a broken rice instead of FCI rice, is there any change in the -- what we say, production? So there are a higher recovery rate when we use rice instead of broken rice? And second question is the prices for the ethanol, which government has decided on the FCI rice versus the broken rice, there is a difference of INR 5. So are we seeing that broken rice price and the FCI rice price of INR 20, that gap has been -- is like the gap has lessened in the last quarter? So that will make more sense to shift to FCI rice and taking the higher realization. So just a thought on that, like I just want to understand the downside if there is any shifting to FCI rice.

Yes. So I'll answer this in parts. Firstly, we have experienced that there has not been much difference in the recovery, whether we procure broken rice or FCI rice. The reason for that is that's all broken by bargains on an SOR basis and quality cuts are down accordingly to the foreign material that is in the product. So once the quality cut has been done in the product, we've come to the realization that the recovery between FCI rice and the broken rice is the same. There's not much difference. Maybe there's a bit of a difference in the DDGS quality. I think it improves a little when FCI rice is used. But we haven't used FCI rice at a significant quantity for me to make a definite statement for the same. And yes, if the broken rice prices continue to stay the same or increase further than FCI rice policy comes into parity and we will look to increase our quantity in the same.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Dipesh Sancheti from Mania Finance.

Sir, just one follow-up question about I mean, as the last participant asked about FCI rice, is the realization for ethanol actually INR 5 higher for FCI rice in a bag? And what is the difference the broken rice prices and FCI rice prices?

Yes, so yes, there is a -- so the broken rice price is at INR 51.55 whereas the FCI rice is at INR 56.87. So throughout the year, the difference between the 2 has changed. So it went from being around INR 4. So currently, I would say the price difference between FCI rice and broken rice is less INR 2.

Okay. So then isn't it better that we convert everything to FCI rice I mean, since you get a higher realization on the prices, which is only 2 to...

We -- actually, this is our opinion that broken rice prices will decrease in the coming months. And yes, we will increase our FCI rice quantity, but we won't convert all of it because there are -- when you're working with FCI, there are a few things that slows down the process in the procurement and I don't think it's wise to divert. And for the ENA production, also, we need broken rice, we can't produce ENA from FCI rice as that is not allowed.

[Operator Instructions] The next question from the line of Mr. Nitin Awasthi from InCred Equities.

I would like to understand the working capital cycle of the company currently. And as we become more of an ethanol company, how will that evolve? Because what I understand is today, we are more on the Edible Oil segment, et cetera, because of which the working capital days are stretched. And as we move towards the Ethanol segment, it should shrink quite significantly. Is that a correct understanding?

Yes, so the working capital requirement for edible oil will remain about the same, whereas we're increasing our revenue, we're not diverting our revenue from one segment to another. We're adding more revenue from the Ethanol sector. So the requirement for the edible oil will remain the same. But the Ethanol sector is still 21 days payment period from the ONCs. So there is some working capital requirement, but significantly lower when compared to the Edible Oil segment, yes.

And the inventory days on the payment days on the Ethanol segment?

Inventory days is quite low, maybe a week at the next, and the payment is 21 days. And there's a 5-day transition period.

Noted. So significantly lower working capital cycles going ahead, but on a cumulative basis?

Yes.

Okay. Secondly, I wanted to understand the difference between our procurement network in Bengal versus our home state. Do we have higher gross profit margins in our home state because we have established procurement network versus Bengal where we are relatively new up here?

No, no, actually, the raw material prices in Bengal will be lower because the suppliers will remain the same. Even at the end of procurement, very little is being done through smaller rice mill, and that is being done because we've been here for a long time, and we have the network. But most of our procurement is still being -- still coming through large traders who deal in quantities throughout the nation, and they are very excited for the Kharagpur plant to start. And every time they visit the office, they're like [Foreign Language], I was more than ready to supply at a cheaper rate because there's a greater supply of broken rice in the state of Bengal and very few distilleries. So we don't see that as being a problem.

Okay, noted. And last question from my side. For the second stage of the Bengal expansion, why have you chosen a quantity of 100 KLPD and not more? Is it the restriction of land environment clearances which you think will be required for a higher capacity or some other things which came in the way? Or is that under discussion that this 100 might actually go up?

See, firstly, the decision to add another 100 was because we have the necessary steam and power in place to add another 100. So for adding any quantity greater than that, we'll have to install another power plant, which is an expensive affair and requires land. So that was the first reason. We felt that 100 could be added very quickly, which is -- because we have the necessary power and steam in place which is usually the part that takes the longest to install and is a very expensive affair to install. So that's why 100 was chosen. And secondly, yes, currently, the land availability is at 33 acres. To install a greater capacity, we would need more land and we're procuring land when the opportunity comes. So that's why 100 KL was chosen. And once 300 KL starts then we'll think about further expansion can be done. Right now, no plans are in place.

The next question is from the line of Pritesh Vora from Mission Holdings.

Sir, can you explain, is there any selling prices fixed based on your input raw material price? Is that correct? I mean depending upon the broken rice or the FCI rice, the final -- the product price differs based on what input raw material you have taken.

Yes, so ENA prices are set at a monthly basis and the input prices play a significant role in setting up the ENA price as no price is fixed for the year.

And how about the ethanol price?

That's fixed for the year.

So for example, if I'm producing ENA, right, which I'm selling to Pernod or any other liquor manufacturer, based on whether I use a broken rice or rice from FCI, my realization will be different?

Rice from FCI to produce an ENA, right? So FCI can only be used to produce ethanol for the ethanol blending program and no other use.

Okay. So that then suppose you are selling the ENA to Pernod or any other liquor manufacturer, how get the realization get fixed? I don't understood the mechanism.

I never said key realization will get fixed. I said the prices are revised on a monthly basis, and we booked the quantity for the buyers at the start of the month. And if they want to buy, they buy. If they don't, they don't.

Right. So their ENA you produce from the broken rice, right?

Yes.

Okay, understood. So there, the variable is basically output is the free market pricing, but the input based on the raw material price which you get it. But how about the ethanol? Ethanol prices are output prices fixed by government, right?

Yes.

And depending upon the which raw material you use, government gives you output prices. Is that correct?

Yes.

So you are saying, as of now, the broken rice catches you less revenue as compared to the FCI rice.

Yes, the broken rice is a lot of cheaper than FCI rice.

Understood. So is government fixes ethanol price every year to which input do you produce? I mean, why so much a restriction of fixing the price? Why can't government decide a single price for ethanol for all the manufacturer?

[Foreign Language] I think you should ask them [Foreign Language]

Is it because the cost of the people who are manufacturing from different route?

Raw material prices are different. Cost of production is different. So I think those are the variables we look at. The prices of the byproducts are different. I mean, DDS price also plays an important role in calculating the industry margins. So everything they have -- they take feedback from us, and they're very responsive too. So last year, for example, when the rate first came out, the FCI does not reach to the INR 54.87 and the rice was at INR 22. And since no one participated in the tender because the parity wasn't there. They asked us for feedback, and we gave them our feedback. And within 10 days, the prices were revised. The price for rice was revised from INR 22 to INR 20 and the ethanol prices was revised from INR 54 to INR 56. They take feedback from the industry and they're quite responsive.

So sir, how do we -- when you decided to put up this capacity, how do you economics wise, you have worked out? Suppose oil price here to fall from here on, will it put a pressure on pricing of ethanol and...

Not at all, not at all. See the -- this was a question that kept coming up during the COVID lockdown also when the prices were too crashed, people thought the government will stop procuring ethanol. See ethanol is being procured for various other reasons. The government has to support the farmers they realized. And the only way to support the farmer is when there is a natural use for the farmer is when there is an actual use for it, the farmer produce. And with the sugar industry and the grain industry having an overproduction from the farm, it's very important for the government to come up with the use for the farmers produce. So that is a big thing. It's also greener for India to meet their climate accord targets. They have to shift towards greener fuels and ethanol will play a huge role in that. It produces 7x less CO2 emissions when compared to its crude oil alternatives. And thirdly, India wants to cut down on its import and dependence on a few countries for the import of crude. So all these factors will play an important goal.

Understood, sir. So sir, is there any -- what is the present difference in the selling price to ethanol if you have gone through molasses route or through grain route? What is the difference between the 2 prices?

See, the molasses, I think there we see heavy different rates. I think it ranges from 56. It's available on the Internet for you to see. I don't -- I'm not exactly sure to comment on it.

Okay. And our prices -- what our price is ethanol?

For broken rice, it's INR 51.55, for FCI it's 56.87.

The next question is a follow-up from the line of Dipesh Sancheti from Manya Finance.

Yes, I don't have any questions. Just the suggestion that if we can keep a con call maybe at around 4:00 instead of [indiscernible] I think we'll have more participation from brokerage houses because I feel that the stock is really cheap, and we should have more brokerages coming in line as we have better HNI investors in our shareholding pattern. So this is a suggestion.

Thank you for the feedback. I think our IR team is on the line, and we will keep this in mind. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Ashish Chopra.

I just wanted to get an idea or a sense of the long-term vision that you have for your company. How do you see BCL 5 years, 10 years down the line? Any thoughts on that, please?

Yes, so the long-term vision for now is to become -- to stay the largest supplier of grain-based ethanol in the country and to keep growing in the Edible Oil segment as well. So to have sustainable growth in the company by expanding in the distillery business for now and making sure that our brands in the Edible Oil segment keep doing well and for us to keep increasing our revenues and profits for the Edible Oil segment.

[Operator Instructions] Ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions from the participants. I now hand the conference -- sorry, we've got one question in queue. The next question is from the line of Pritesh Vora from Mission Holdings.

Sir, how much we realize EBITDA-wise, is it the ENA is more profitable or ethanol making it more profitable in terms of EBITDA?

They're about the same.

As there no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Nitin Awasthi for closing comments.

I would just like to thank all the participants and the management for taking out their time to answer your questions from the participants and wish everybody a very happy Diwali. Over to you, sir.

Yes. Thank you, everyone, for joining our call. We hope all of you have a very happy, safe and healthy Diwali, and a great new year. Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of InCred Equities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.