BCL Industries Limited (524332) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Q2 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call of BCL Industries Limited hosted by Quantum Securities Private Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Prashant Sharma from Quantum Securities. Thank you. And over to you, Mr. Sharma.

Yes, thank you, Mitchell. On behalf of Quantum Securities, we welcome you all to quarter 2 FY '23 Results Conference call of BCL Industries Limited. We thank the management for giving us the opportunity to host this call. The management is represented by Mr. Rajinder Mittal, Managing Director. I now hand over the call to Mr. Rajinder Mittal. Over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to BCL Industries earnings call for the second quarter of the financial year 2023. Let me start by giving you the key financial highlights of the quarter 2 FY '23. The total income for the quarter was around INR 455 crores, which declined by approximately 2% year-on-year. EBITDA for the quarter was around INR 8.6 crores, which declined by approximately 73% year-on-year. EBITDA margins were 1.89%, and we reported a net loss of INR 80 lakhs. Coming to the operational highlights for the second quarter financial year 2022-'23 with regards to the Distillery segment, there has been significant increase in the price of fuel, which led to the increase in EBITDA margins -- decrease in the EBITDA margins year-to-year. The company is hedging against the global increase in the energy cost by installing a power plant, which will run on multifuel, mainly the rice straw, mustard straw and the wood sticks of the cotton straw. And we have already procured around about 55,000 tonnes of this kind of fuel to be used in this year, starting from the last quarter of this financial year, which will improve the -- which will significantly reduce the cost of the fuel in the next financial year and somewhat will be reflected in the last quarter of this financial year. The power plant is likely to be commissioned in the fourth quarter of this financial year, which helps the company to reduce the fuel cost in the long run. And there will be hedging -- as regard this kind of situation doesn't arise in the future, so we'll be running our boilers on multifuel basis. There has also been an increase in the price of damaged food grains in the market, but we were able to hedge against the price increase by building some of our requirements in our own rice mills. Svaksha Distillery experienced some unexpected problems during the commissioning, though the order was executed by one of the Asia's best company, that's Parag. There cannot be any better supplier than Parag in the present scenario. But this is 1,000 times -- this is far than 1,000, you can say, cases where there was a defect in the RC column, which the company has agreed to replace and the replacement will go by, you can say, middle of the January. And from thereafter, we'll be able to achieve the full capacity utilization. At present, we are only utilizing 70% of the capacity, that too for ethanol only. We have not been able to utilize -- or we had the opportunity of producing ENA which has a higher price as compared to the ethanol prices. So that was our main contention that we'll be putting our 50% capacity on ethanol and 50% capacity on ENA. So that's the main reason that in Svaksha, we were not able to operate the unit at the full capacity. In this Distillery segment, one thing has to be noticed that almost all the processing costs are fixed. Only variable cost is very minimal, that is about 15% to 20% is the variable cost and 80% is almost -- is all the fixed cost, by way of finance cost, by way of salary wages, by way of power and fuel because the power and fuel requirement is being met from the captive power plant. And captive power plant is operating on some less capacity doesn't have the fuel efficiency. The fuel efficiency, we thought to give out 80% plus, we are getting about 72%. So when we are able to operate at 100% capacity, this processing cost will automatically come down and have a positive impact on the results. But for the expansion of 200 KLPD ethanol plant in Bhatinda is in full swing. The company has availed a term loan of about INR 100 crores from Canara Bank, which qualifies for interest Subvention scheme. Effectively, we'll be paying about 4.25% of the interest at present to the bank. And we hope to commission this plant as for schedule, and we should be having 1 or 2 months working for the last quarter in this financial year itself. In the Edible segment, there has been more than 50% decline in the global edible oil prices. And the second big thing is that the government was worried about the inflation of this day-to-day, I think, consumption items, mainly edible oil. They government reduced the import duty to almost nil, which was at very high rates. So that impacted the inventory loss of the holding, though we were quite cautious and even not bothered about, you can say, achieving the sales target as compared to the last financial year. But still, we did 50% reduction. And we also had to bail out our distributors because they don't have the deep pockets to bear such kind of a loss to the extent of 50% in the inventory. So the total booking, which was done at a higher rate with the dealers, we had to come out to bail them out, and those were again priced at the market price, which resulted in the heavy inventory loss. For example, we are having about INR 300 crores per quarter -- or INR 100 crores per month as the, you can say, sale of the edible oil. And we this year just held inventory not even sufficient for 15 days, but the loss on account of INR 50 crores. If you reduce this INR 50 crores just by 50%, that comes to INR 25 crores. So that was the kind of -- this is rare of such thing that we have ever seen in the industry. Now the prices have bottomed out. And in the month of October, there has been some recovery, smart recovery in the prices and the inventory loss, which was huge amount, we had some gains in this quarter. And hopefully, we are quite hopeful that if this pressure situation continues, we shall be, again, having our comparison of the third quarter as compared to the last year. And we should be able to make up some part of the losses incurred in this quarter in coming 2 quarters. In the Real Estate segment, we continue to utilize revenue for the sale to liquidate the debt, which is visible in the results. Lastly, to discuss about the half yearly performance of the financial year 2023, the total income was around INR 833 crores, which declined approximately by 9% year-to-year. Here, I'd just like to mention that this drop is only in the Edible Oil segment. There has not been any drop in the Distillery segment. The Distillery segment, there has been -- in the half yearly, if we talk about, there has been some increase also. In quarter-wise, there has also been some increase in the volumes. The total income was around INR 833 crores, which is approximately 9% less as compared to the last year. EBITDA stood at approximately INR 40 crore, which declined by approximately INR 33 crores -- 33%. EBITDA margins reported at 4.83%, while the net profit was INR 17 crores, down by approximately 55% year-on-year. With this, I would like to open the floor for any questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Simran Singh from Omkara Capital.

Sir, there are 2 questions.

I'm sorry to interrupt Mr. Singh, we are not able to hear you clearly. Sir, your voice is also echoing.

Now, it's fine?

Please proceed.

See, I want to understand what is your Bhatinda distillery refinery means capacity utilization right now? I want to understand it. And secondly, your Svaksha distillery plant, when it's going to commission in the -- means what is the status right now in the ethanol segment as well as in the ENA segment?

Okay, so let me answer your question one by one. The Bhatinda capacity of ethanol and ENA is more than 100%. So we are utilizing more than 100% capacity. And for your information, this quarter, particularly this second quarter, so as compared to the last quarter, we have been able to achieve 18.60% more capacity in this particular quarter. And the 100% capacity utilization is -- more than 100% capacity utilization is at Bhatinda. Regarding Svaksha, as I mentioned in my presentation that there is some technical defect in the rectified column. That is -- that makes the quality for ENA/the potable alcohol. Since that column, there is some defects, and we are not receiving the desired capacity and the quality, the entire quantity which we are manufacturing, which is to the extent of about 70% of the total installed capacity is being converted into ethanol. So there inevitable was the prices of the ethanol -- or the India-wide prices of ethanol are a bit lower as compared to the realization on account of ENA. So that column, the company has identified the fault, that complete column has to be replaced. And the column is under fabrication in their workshop at Pune. So that column will be dispatched around say -- they have assured us that they will be able to dispatch by 15th of December, and that should reach the site by 25th of December, and another 5 to 10 days in taking out the old column, and replacing it with new. We'll have a production loss of even 70% in that 7 to 10 days period. And we are hopeful that from February, March, we will have 2 months of 100% capacity. The rest of the things are stabilized. There is no -- not even a single problem as regard the quality acceptance of the DD here. We have supplied to Godrej for their aqua feed with a plant which is very near to us, about, say, 8 kilometers from us. All the qualities and other things, the grain procurement, the fuel efficiency, all things have stabilized, except there is a defect in the rectifier column. And this is the second time we have, you can say, witnessed this kind of a defect in their history of supplying 500 columns. So we went to Pune, but all things said and done, the defect is there, and we have suffered on account of that.

So sir, we can say that from the next February or March onwards, we can have the 100% capacity utilization from the Svaksha Distillery, means Distillery segment, which we can assume just tentatively?

I think we should get good 2 months working with 100% capacity at Svaksha because you see that all this ethanol tie ups, all the supply, you can say logistics, taking the grains from the FCI, all allotments, all allocations have now stabilized. Moreover, I will -- just you can say, big reference in the state of West Bengal. It could have again taken some days about, say, months or so, but this defect has certainly put a dent on the company's performance as regards this particular quarter. Otherwise, we were hoping that this quarter, we'll be having full capacity because we don't -- the promoter had a vast experience in the field. And most of the technical teams which has a lot of experience from this Bhatinda plant, we posted at that plant just to stabilize the things as early as possible. But our bad luck, that did not happen. Now with the assurance of Parag, they are quite serious about these things because this has given a bad name to them also in spite of the huge loss to us. They will be also losing about INR 3 crores to INR 4 crores. The cost of the column is about INR 4 crores. And apart from that, the freight and the reactions charges and dismantling charges, all these things. So that is the thing. But something -- in some cases, we cannot have -- in fact luckily, that we had put this ethanol plant. Otherwise, this plant was not even in existence, that we were thinking that we'll put the ethanol plant in the second phase. But anyhow, fearing that there could be some demand constraints of selling 200 KLPD potable alcohol in this, we just put up this 100 KLPD -- 125 KLPD ethanol plant, which we are running on more than 125% capacity at the plant. So that is the thing. I think we should be able to commission the plant by 15th of January without fail and have 2.5 months good working for 100% capacity utilization.

Great, sir, great. Nice to hear this. And sir, my last question is, sir, in terms of the expenses, I was going through your annual reports and quarterly presentations also. I didn't find the breakup of the expenses, operating expenses in the P&L statement. So can you at least share this, how -- means can you at least explain what is the major constituent in the expenses you have in the total expenses? Or you can share that...

I'll just give the thumb rule because this -- I don't know about the accounting procedure, whether they are to, you can say, specify the each and every part of the expenses. They're always taken at the bulk, the total expenditure. Our -- this main expenditure, if we say that the -- our expenditure for converting this grain base to ethanol or the ENA is approximately INR 18 per liter, it is the thumb rule. We are taking the normal power and fuel cost, basically the other things are also fixed. Finance cost is fixed. Salary wages almost the same. Processing chemicals almost the same. There are 4 major expenditures in this. The first is the power and fuel. The major expenses is on account of power and fuel. So at present if you see that about INR 14 per liter is only the power and fuel at Svaksha, where it should have been less than INR 10 per liter because there is lower production utilization. Rest, about INR 2 per liter is the salary wages; approximately same is the finance cost, INR 2 per liter; about INR 1.75 per liter is the processing chemical costs; and about INR 0.70 per liter is the repair and maintenance costs. This is the total, you can say, thumb rule bifurcation.

[Operator Instructions] We have the next question from the line of Dipesh Sancheti from Manya Finance.

Firstly, I wanted to take -- I mean, what is your take of feeling about the Q2 results? Are you disappointed? Is this a one-off? Or you think it was better than what could have happened?

You see that first question, that we are not disappointed. Let me be very frank with you because we -- the management with their experience has been able to reduce the loss to a great extent. You see that we did not even care about the -- achieving the revenue targets. We were afraid of this market going skyrocketing at these levels, which has never happened in the edible oil history that pricing in just about 3 months, going just double the price, maybe the penny additions, maybe the funds playing this cost. I would want to specifically mention you, see, the first quarter should have been -- why there was no loss in the first quarter also? Why there was no loss? You see fearing that the market is going -- may likely have a steep fall, in the first quarter, we wash out our low-price contract with the higher price prevailing at that time. And out of the INR 9 crores earning in the first quarter in this Edible segment, INR 8.2 crores was the profit received from the settling of those contracts. So we were lucky enough to wash out those contracts, you can say, at the import level itself and have the earnings from that account. Otherwise, it would have been much, much higher. So we consider that we have got the best management, best inventory management and the best portfolio management. So we are highly satisfied. With the results, we are not disappointed. And now from -- as I mentioned, that from October, we thought that the market has bottomed out. And that also proved to be quite, you can say, in line with the management thoughts, and we will be able to recover some part of our loss from this quarter; or if not recover, at least maintain the margins as in the previous 2 quarters of the corresponding year.

Okay. That's great. Now I wanted to know about some...

Second thing I would just mention is that regarding Distillery segment, in spite of the fact that there has been an increase of about INR 9 crores in the fuel cost, INR 9 crores of increase in the fuel alone in this quarter. We have been able to curtail that, you can say, hit by increasing the production by 18.60%. And apart from that, we did increase the production. But the fuel percentage, the fuel quantity wise, we were able to reduce 5.67%. So as regards the management part and my team, they have done their best in the present scenario, and I congratulate them for this. And we are highly satisfied that we have been able to sale out in these difficult times.

So this INR 9 crore of fuel cost, which was the increase in this quarter, was it in Bhatinda or in Svaksha?

No, it is in Bhatinda. Svaksha, we are not calculating because Svaksha fuel costs cannot be right now calculated because we are running on 70% capacity. That would have been high. There also it has impacted. There also it has been impacted. But since we are not able to visualize, as we have the power plant, which is -- captive power plant, which is operating at a very less capacity, because of the lower capacity of the plant. Once we resume the full capacity of the plant, we'll have the expenses together. We are not able to yet analyzed that how much expenses we are getting in the fuel part. But in Bhatinda, this -- I'm talking about Bhatinda alone. There was a INR 9 crore increase in the fuel cost. The fuel cost, which was INR 5,105 per metric ton in the corresponding quarter, had gone up to INR 8,727. 70.97%, 71% approximately, there has been an increase in the fuel cost of the -- in rupee terms. And that too, by decreasing the, can say, quantity wise. We have been able to reduce the quantity by 5.67% by utilizing the high efficiency and other things. Energy, you can say, saving devices and other things, which came into operation.

Okay. Sir, what is the major reason of this high increase in fuel cost? Was it due to the increase in power cost from Punjab government? What is the major reason?

You see that we are producing captive power with that. We are not affected by the Punjab government tariffs and other things. But it is the fuel cost, the fuel cost, which I mentioned is the -- mainly the fuel cost is -- fuel is right up at present. So to take care of that, the company which we -- only last year, we took the decision that we should have the second power plant, which is being installed for the coming expansion of 10-megawatt. At present, we have got 10-megawatt captive power plant. And there, the basic fuel is husk or we can and to coal. But coal was also not available. Coal was even much higher as compared to the husk. So all the industries in Punjab, now instead of using coal or furnace oil or maybe any other fuel, everything was on the higher side. So they prefer to use the local, you can say, this rice husk. And that resulted in the scarcity of the product, and that took the price higher by 71%. So now the second power plant will be a multi-fuel boiler that we'll be able to utilize the rice straw, which we have now accumulated for almost 7 to 8 months, 60,000 tonnes we've accumulated. Now that is at INR 2.5 per kg as against INR 9 per kg. You can just imagine, and the efficiency is just down by 15% to 20%. So that we'll be giving less energy of 20% as compared to the rice husk. And we'll be able to use the mustard straw, then we'll be able to use the wooden sticks also, everything we can use in that power plant. Though the CapEx cost on that is on the higher side, but the Punjab government has come out with, you can say, incentive on these kind of power plants by, you can say, giving us the SGST share of 2.5% for the full amount spent on this power plant. So we'll -- in 5 years, we'll be able to get the investment back by way of SGST refund of the state government share.

So this IGST refund will be also on whatever the products which are sold from that -- because of that plant or only is on the plant cost?

Whatever the company pays, yes. If the company is paying SGST to the extent of INR 5 crore per annum, so we'll be getting the SGST share of INR 5 crores, up to the maximum to the extent of my CapEx cost on this power plant, which is around about INR 45 crores.

Yes, that is for 5 years, right?

That's for 5 years.

Great. Sir, just I wanted to have an update from Svaksha. What you said that, from Svaksha we supply to Godrej, right?

No, no. I was just mentioning that the rest of the things have stabilized. There are 2, 3 things. We generally produce 3 things; one is the DDGs, which goes as a poultry and cattle feed and aqua feed; and the second is the potable alcohol that we call it ENA; and third is ethanol. So our plan there is to manufacture potable alcohol. Ethanol plant, we just kept standby, just that such in a new market we may not be able to sell about 200 KLPD per day of potable alcohol in that segment because we could see that there could be some marketing issues. So what we did was, that 50%, we put up a strong plant, so that 50% capacity -- is sold at 50%, we can sell at our own rate or we could have put a pressure on these ENA prices. So that was the plan there. So now our only ethanol plant is running because we are not getting the quality parameters required for the purpose of potable alcohol due to the defect in the rectifier column, which is to be replaced by Parag Industries.

Will we be paying anything for this replacement? Is there any cost for us?

No, no, nothing. We'll not be paying anything. So that is their duty to even, say, achieve all the required parameters, which have been duly notified and there's a proper agreement for that. So we don't have to pay anything to them. Apart from that, we cannot ask them the recurring losses. Only the machinery, we have to achieve the parameters. The second option was with the company that you could have taken a 5% penalty of the total contract value, say, the contract value was around 55 -- INR 50 crores. So we could have taken just INR 2.5 crores from them and got the columns replaced from some other supplier or maybe get it rectified from other company. But we didn't choose that because the column cost is around more than INR 4 crores, INR 5 crores, and there could have been another expenditure, and that would have been, again, a great experiment to realign the entire process. So we opted for them. And you see that there is a very, very heavy order book with the Parag. Otherwise, it cannot be a sole entity job. There is, you can say, difficulty in getting the special kind of copper required in this column, to have this better quality. And Parag is considered to be one of the Asia's best supplier of this ethanol and ENA plants. So we chose that they should replace the column at a zero cost.

Great. And I think that's a good decision for long term also because -- so that we get the best product only.

Because we just wanted to maintain relation with them instead of parting with them because we are here for a long-term basis, not on short-term basis in this ethanol policy.

Mr. Sancheti?

I think he has left. We can call the other participants.

We move on to the next participant, and the question is from the line of Anirudh Singhi from Dalal & Broacha Portfolio Managers.

Hi, am I audible?

[Operator Instructions]

Better now?

Yes.

So my question was, in Q2 and first half, both, our oil revenue is down about 15%. So could you break that up into volume and pricing?

You see that our -- in Q2, over half yearly, our revenue is down. That is mainly on account of the edible oil production only. There has not been any decline in the Distillery segment. What I would advice you for -- to me, this first quarter, the quantity we produced was 23,586 tonnes of total edible oil. And the last quarter, the figure was 14,480 tonnes because we settled all the low price bargain with the -- at the prevailing. At the time, it was not, you can say, commercially viable to bring that high-priced product here and process it and sell in the market, because this is a very, very sensitive, you can say, commodity. Higher the price, lower the consumption; lower the price, higher the consumption. So quantity-wise, we took a big hit, we took a big decision and got INR 8.2 crores as profit by selling the total vessel of load in the foreign countries. And in this quarter, the second quarter, the quantity, which we produced is approximately 20,000 -- approximately if I'm right, 20,876 tonnes against 27,762 tonnes. Otherwise, there would have been a huge inventory loss for me because my retailers, they were running away because they didn't have the deep pockets. So we had to take a decision that we'll move slow to reduce the losses. Otherwise, it would have been much higher. So you can see that the quantity wise production is much, much higher. But the prices are so high and the government was after the industries, they put up the stock limits, other things, and there was so much of checking because the government was quite worried about the increase in this day-to-day consumption. So we kept a low profile. We did not care for the revenue. And that lower capacity utilization of the plant also resulted -- is also one of the factors to have this loss in these quarters.

Okay. Sir, I understand. 15% Y-on-Y decline in revenue, 10% was volume, 5% was pricing, right?

Yes. It was mainly because of the volume because the frequency of the price was so high that in spite of there's a fall in the -- 25% or 30% just calculate for the -- I'm just asking my team to just calculate the percentage. I have not calculated the percentage at once. If I take this [Foreign Language]. I'll just calculate for you. [Foreign Language] Quantity wise, you can say volume was 45% down.

This is for Q2?

This is for both the quarters. This is half yearly. Half yearly, my quantities were down by almost 40% to 45%.

And sir, our revenue is down only 15%. So there is a 30% improvement in realization?

No, no. This is because it is very high prices. Very high, unaffordable for the, you can say, people. So that's why government came up with so many steps. Once step was to reduce the import duty almost to a zero level. The second one was putting stock limits. And third, was that -- you see that there were so many factors within these 2 quarters. The currency went off. There were some, you can say, foreign exchange losses also on that account. But these all were limited because we washed out the contracts all in the first quarter, and had a, you can say, profit margin of INR 8.2 crores. So there was no sense in bringing the product to India and then again, incurring an inventory loss and we couldn't manage it. That's why I mentioned in the last question that we are highly satisfied with the result, and we have been able to over the large portion of the losses, which could have been, you can say -- would have been difficult times to the company.

Okay. And could you just help me recalibrate our capacity. So right now, we have 200 KLPD distillery in Bhatinda. There's another 200 KLPD, which is coming up, which -- Svaksha was in Bengal. Another 200 KLPD will come up in Bhatinda by end of this year.

Yes. So you can say that at present, we are operating 200 KLPD distillery at Bhatinda, which is running more than 100% capacity. The second distillery, 200 KLPD is also in operation with a capacity of 70%. Another 200 KLPD only at a small plant is under erection at Bhatinda, which we hope to commission by end of January, the next financial year, and we could have about 2 months of working in this financial year itself. And another 100 KLPD expansion is also planned at the Svaksha that got some setback with this, you can say, unforeseen circumstances which prevail. First, we wanted to have utilize the 100% capacity, that is 200 KLPD at Svaksha, and then start the work for 100 KLPD, for which we have received -- all the sanctions are in place. The orders finally all negotiated, but we didn't release the advance because we were at a fix whether to go with Parag or go with our old suppliers, which we had a proven record. We paid an extra amount as compared to the other supplies, which we paid at Bhatinda, seeing that it's a more reputed and more liable and more efficient company as Parag. But you can say the experience was bad for us. So we have now again decided to take this 100 KLPD expansion of Svaksha from our old supplier, and we'll release them the advance and the orders once the Bhatinda plant is commissioned. And we achieved the 100% capacity utilization in Svaksha after the rectification of the defect in the column.

Okay. So the start of FY '25, we'll have 600 KLPD capacity?

No, we'll have two -- 700 KLPD capacity. Next year, so our capacity is 200 KLPD Bhatinda running, 200 KLPD Svaksha, another 200 KLPD expansion will come into operation within this financial itself and 100 KLPD expansion plant, which will not take them more than 4, 5 months because all these things, you can say, the civil work and other modalities, the permissions, logistics have already been created. And we had started this power plant, which is the main time-consuming factor, taking in view our 100 KLPD expansion. So as far as everything goes on, well, the present circumstances, we should be able to commission even the 100 KLPD expanded capacity at Svaksha by third quarter of the next financial year. So next financial year, we'll be -- we should be having 700 KLPD total capacity in our end.

And could you break that up into ENA and ethanol, 700?

Sorry.

Of the 700, how much would be ENA, how much would be ethanol?

Yes, that's a very valid question because in Bhatinda, we'll be putting -- utilizing about 200 KLPD in the previous plants purely for potable purposes and 200 KLPD will be for ethanol purposes. In Svaksha, we'll be utilizing about 50% of the capacity for ethanol and 50% capacity for the ENA, thereby meaning 150 KLPD to the ENA, and we just want to make a mix of it because the prices have ethanol are fixed by the government with the sugar year, which starts from 1st of December to 30th November. This year, it's up to 30th October. They have made it for 11 months. And from the next year, they will be starting from 1st of November to 30th of October. I think the sugar industry might have made some representations regarding the sugar year. So we just wanted 50% of our portfolio towards the ethanol and 50% towards the ENA because some kind of few changes -- few, you can say, minus points by increase in the ethanol prices, there will be some increase in the grain prices. The ENA prices or the potable alcohol prices are governed purely by the market forces. Like now at present can say that INR 58.50 from the circular price is the price of ethanol for the OMCs. And whereas the ENA, which we are selling is at about INR 62 per liter. So INR 3.5 liter means a lot in your expenditure.

Okay. And lastly, how much is the unsold inventory in the Real Estate business?

Real estate inventory is just left our inventory, maybe around about, say, INR 20 crores, INR 25 crores, which will be monetized in about a year or so. Maybe next year, we'll be able to monetize. But all the inventories, all, you can say -- these are some leftover stock, maybe some corner plots, corner flats, those take some time. And some are even occupied by -- we have allotted those to the company employees. Instead of paying house rent, so we have allotted that 2 room bedroom flat to the various employees on which we were paying house rent, so that is not being reflected. But anyhow, so those are all for sales and marketing. I think we should be able to realize the entire inventory by the next financial year.

We have the next question from the line of Varinder Bansal from Omkara Capital.

I hope my voice is clear.

Yes, your vice is absolutely [indiscernible].

Sir, there are too many things that are going on. If I had to put Distillery segment first, now the Distillery segment, the capacity for the company will be 700 KLPD, as you mentioned to our earlier analyst [ point ], right?

Yes.

That will be next year. We are talking about '23, '24.

But this year, '22, '23, 600 will be operational by end of this financial year, 200 already in operation at Bhatinda. 200 KLPD already in operation at Svaksha, though that's running at 70% capacity, but that's already commissioned. 200 KLPD at Bhatinda is under erection. And our timeline for commissioning this project is by end of January. So by end of this financial year, we will be having a 600 KLPD this capacity.

I understand. So next year...

KLPD by the next financial year.

Got it. And the economics, what do you explain to again -- and this was that you save around INR 10 per liter on EBITDA level, right?

I think this is a thumb rule margin, which we calculate during our day-to-day operation that we should be able to get INR 10 per liter from this ethanol, and you can see the ENA business. This definitely would include the depreciation part of it. We don't -- this is the cash accrual which we get, the cash profit. We don't include this depreciation part in this calculation. So by next -- this year and next financial year, '22 -- '23, '24. So if I -- does not even include the 100 KLPD, which we hope to commission in the third quarter of the next financial year, 600 into 350 and same -- there is 21 [ crude ] liters. If I take INR 10 to my can -- say, cash margin, leaving aside depreciation, should be around about 200 plus from the Distillery segment side. '23, '24 I'm talking about.

So you are saying that only from the Distillery part, company can do an EBITDA of nearly INR 200 crores?

You call it EBITDA ] definitely it will be deducted from this. So 200 KLPD I thought, I'm just -- submitted. That 200 approximately will be the cash available with the company. This includes all the expenditure, even the finance cost, but excluding depreciation and taxes.

Understood. Understood. Okay. Sir, can you explain the conversion cost economic [indiscernible]?

So the conversion cost we have -- take everything normal. We are not taking anything abnormal like this quarter happened that the increase in the fuel cost by 71%. Though we have taken all these steps, the net -- we don't face this problem by putting up this multi-fuel boiler so that we can have a choice of so many fuel with the company, like we can use coal, we can muster for rice, husk stocks, [ wood ] stake or maybe... So the approximate the processing conversion cost is INR 80 per liter on rice, local rice, damaged rice or the surplus [ price ] derived from this Food Corporation of India, INR 18 per liter.

This is the conversion cost?

These are conversion costs. This takes care of the [ container ] maintenance, takes care of the finance cost, takes care of the salary and wages and take care of your power and fuel of the normal. Abnormal conditions, it doesn't -- you can't say, have this formula working...65% to 70% of the cost is on account of fuel only.

Got it. What is the price of broken rice right now, sir?

Broken rice is around what, say, in Bengal, it's around about [ INR 90.50 ] per kg. In Punjab, it's INR 20.50 per kg.

And have you seen -- and how much we take from FCI and non-FCI [indiscernible]?

So FCI this year, [indiscernible] all the ethanol quantity, which we will be supplying to them has been based on the FCI rice because the market price is higher as compared to the FCI rate. FCI supplies at INR 20 per kg and the market price at present is a INR 20.50 per kg. And the approx. price derived from the damaged food grain is INR 55 per liter whereas derived from the FCI rice is INR 58.5. So I think entire India or -- we would have access to this surplus rice. You see that you'll be -- again, different kind of reserves altogether in this year in the financial year '23, '24 for the 2 quarters of this financial year from the stand-alone because they don't have the, you can say, flexibility of framing the surplus rice. We are sitting at the rice [ belt ], we have the godowns full with the rice. So there's no problem in getting the rice. [ We ] will not transfer the rices to some south states when there is a demand in the Punjab state itself without incurring any transportation cost. So these Punjab plants should have an overhead leverage over and above the ethanol plants which are coming in the rest part of the country. And I don't think that the grain price is cooling down in near future. So this INR 20.50, which we again, we are utilizing only for the ENA [indiscernible], that potable alcohol manufacturing. The we have based entirely on a [indiscernible] rights.

Got it. So sir, I understand that you are saying that the broken price is INR 20.5 or INR20.70, conversion cost is INR 18 per liter, right?

Yes.

Okay, one is that, okay. And can you educate us on the husk? What is the husk rate right now? Because that is another big component of yours, which has increased by 70%, as you mentioned.

The fuel cost?

You haven't seen increase in the rice costs, right? Rice cost has been on the almost the same [ price ].

Rice cost, we have been able to, you can say, utilize that -- you see that our companies are basically [ greenlist ] company and -- but it's agro processing. We have what you can say, rice processing unit also. So in this quarter, 2 quarters, we were able to procure debit from Madhya Pradesh by a way of an open tender to the extent of about 40,000 tonnes. So we brought the from there, converted this into the, you can say, damaged rice, it's an old [ mill ]. So that gave us a good value addition. So this procurement of rice is not a problem for us. And as regards to fuel cost, the fuel cost, we are in the process or the boiler is under installation, which can handle multi-fuels. At present, we had the 2 boilers of the power plant, which could run only on coal or rice. You see that coal price also went up skyrocketing, rice -- you can say, in fact, the coal price also affected the rice. But in this boiler which we are powering, which we are coming likely to commission in January itself, the fuel price, fuel is mainly of rice stock. Rice stock comes -- there's a big pollution, you can say, angle as you must have read in the newspaper that Punjab is being blamed from this [ stable ] burning by Delhi or Haryana. And there has been a lot of hue and cry by NGT and the Delhi Government and the public at large that the farm [indiscernible], which happens -- because of the toughest use to be -- for the power generation for the utilizing the energy in the entire world. So this you can say what the technology of the power plant, which can use rice stock. For that, we have already procured 60,000 tonnes of this rice stock and got some medicinal [ help ] also, took some land on lease also. So there's is a price of INR 2.5 per kg, which will bring the fuel cost in the extraordinary circumstances. We'll take care of that, that we don't get that kind of rate.

Very, sir. I understand. But you are saying that this boiler will start only in fourth quarter, right, January onwards?

Fourth quarter, yes, fourth quarter. But you see, Varinder, that this a totally new technology. And though we have taken every precaution to get the best results out of it, but you see that it's a new technology. So there could be some delay in commissioning of this plant. But that technology, you can say, it's a proven technology, but the supplier, everybody is afraid, say maybe there would be 10, 15 days plus or minus.

I understand that. So I just wanted to check one thing. On the rice side, if I just take the rice, the prices of the broken rice, I think it also depends on [ maize ] milling, right? The price of maize has been coming down in the last quarter. Have you seen prices of broken rice coming down or not?

Yes, sure, sure. So you see that the maize prices went up to about INR 25 to INR 26 per kg. And the broken rice or the damaged rice touched in the high of INR 22.50 per kg. But now it has come down to INR 20.50 per here and INR 19 -- INR 20 at West Bengal because West Bengal we have about 2, 3 crops. Unprecedentedly, you see that when we started our West Bengal plant, the price of the husk, they are what INR 5 per kg we contracted with the company for the full year. And now the price is INR 11.50 per kg. You see the kind of, you can say, the inflation in the fuel prices.

Sir, I understand. I'm just asking what is the latest now? Like rice, you are saying there is some drop in terms of the rice -- broken rice cost?

You see, Varinder, this year, mainly, you can say, everybody has shifted the focus from a strict revenue instead of playing with the damaged food grains. The maximum quantity, the [ greenbelt ] plus, you can say, on the base of these [indiscernible] rice. That's the same rate throughout the year. So when our demand comes down by 30%, 40%, so naturally, it will have a positive impact as regards the reduction of prices in the grain. And then the reason the maize price has also come down, millet price has also come down and consequently, the broken rice or the damaged rice has also come down.

And husk, sir, what is the latest from the husk side?

I'm sorry to interrupt. Mr. Bansal, I would request you please rejoin the queue. There are many other participants waiting for their chance. [Operator Instructions] We have the next question from the line of Pankaj from Affluent Assets.

I again wanted to reiterate the economic -- I wanted to understand the economics of the grain-based ethanol. If I -- whatever I understood, your cost of procuring rice is around INR 20 -- INR 20 to INR 20.5 per kg, conversion cost is INR 18 to INR 19, and the price you received for ethanol is around INR 52.9. So -- and you also mentioned that fuel cost constitute 60% to 70% of the conversion cost. Am I on the right track? And if that is true, the total EBITDA-level cost, cost of production plus your -- cost of conversion plus cost of procuring would be around INR 20 plus INR 18, 39-odd rupees. And you mentioned that you are having a spread of around INR 10 per liter. So I'm not able to put...

Yes, let me go one by one. Actually, you mixed a lot many things. See that the cost of raw material is not calculated on for liter. Cost of raw material will be whatever it is, maybe INR 30 per liter, maybe INR 28 per liter. The cost of raw material has not been calculated in this formula. Only the processing cost and my cash margin because the company's worth, you can say on a reversal basis, like this, we -- the Ministry of Petroleum or the Ministry of Food have taken INR 20 per kg as it's right to be supplied, rates to be supplied to the digital for converting them to ethanol . So that raw material price is fixed. We spent about INR 18 per liter on the processing cost. That leaves us with a cash margin of INR 10 per liter. So that is without depreciation and the taxes. So this will be the scenario. The -- it's not -- rate is not INR 52. It is INR 58.5 per liter. And INR 62 per liter is the rate of potable alcohol or ENA, which we are manufacturing from the grains which we procure from the market.

And sir, what is the input/output ratio? How much rice is required for making 1 liter of ethanol?

So say, by about 45% is recovery. So in 1 tonne of rice about 450 liters of ethanol is being produced.

We have the next question from the line of Niraj [ Jain ], an Individual Investor.

So my first question is related to Svaksha Distillery. So if I understand correctly, right now, only it is producing ethanol, not ENA and the capacity utilization is around 70% for the current quarter. So the previous quarter, the revenue was around INR 27 crores. So can I get like a ballpark figure, high-level estimate on how much revenue can this distillery do in quarter 3 and quarter 4?

Yes, right. You are right that this -- we are operating in about 70% capacity only manufacturing ethanol. So this quarter, only September was the working month, we didn't get any revenue in -- September was only working month, which we operated around 70% full capacity. So that revenue was about INR 28 crores. So this 3 months, we will be getting average revenue of INR 20 crores to INR 29 crores per month. So if I take this INR 28 crores into 3, the revenues would be about INR 84 crores to INR 88 crores in the current quarter.

Okay. And what about quarter 4?

Quarter 4, as I mentioned, that if everything goes well and we are able to -- this price is able to receive -- replace the column by 15th of Jan and the timeline, and we'll be pleased to inform that we are about 1 week ahead of this [ anew ] whatever -- because my team is constantly present at the workshop and we are monitoring day-to-day that how far is the, you can say, fabrication work. So that -- we were already stable about 1 week. So we should be able to start the production of 100% by 15th of Jan and a good 2 months, 400% capacity utilization. So that will take our revenue to about [Foreign Language]. So that will take my revenue to about INR 38 crores for the last 2 months of the -- this fourth quarter of the financial year, this financial year.

Okay. And if I understand correctly, your plan is to have like 50% ENA, 50% ethanol from Svaksha, right? Right now, it is 70% ethanol because we cannot produce [indiscernible]?

Yes. But that -- you see that 50% this year we'll not be doing it, we'll be doing less as the ENA prices are much higher as compared to the ethanol. So this 50% I mentioned is that once we are able to commission the next phase of expansion at Svaksha by adding another 100 KLPD, so we propose -- we have in mind that we'll be converting 50% of ethanol and 50% of ENA. But right now, this year, we intend to produce -- by the time that expansion comes to become operational, we intend to have at least 60% to 65% of the potable alcohol and 30% to 35% only ethanol.

Okay. And if I understand correctly, the new distillery is made such that the capacity is fungible, right? So if you feel that ENA prices are more lucrative so you can do 80% capacity for ENA and 20% for ethanol, right? Or maybe even 100% if you think that, that's more lucrative?

No, no. You see that at Svaksha, we'll be able to produce net of 67% of ENA and 33% of ethanol once the expanded capacity comes into operation. Otherwise, we can do 100% ENA at Svaksha and stay very true about 5% to 10% only of ethanol. And Bhatinda, when this expansion is fully operational, so we'll be doing 50-50. We can't go above 50 -- more than 50 because we have got a 200 KLPD [ lessons ] to manufacture potable alcohol. And ethanol, we can go up to 400 KLPD. But our capacity restricted -- will be restricted to 200 and 200.

Okay. And my last question, this is related to the Edible Oil segment. So may I know what was the capacity utilization for quarter 2? And do you think that there would be higher capacity utilization in the current quarter and the next?

Yes, surely. The capacity utilization came down by at least about 20%, 25%, is not rightly calculated, the figures are not in front of me. Only I compare the last year figure that the previous 2 quarters and these 2 quarters in -- considering quantity-wise. But I don't have the figure right now. But might be -- it was about 80% last year in the first 2 quarters. And this year, there has been a drop of about, say, 20% in the capacity utilization. So we hope to -- you can achieve the previous levels in these 2 quarters. And if the things remains different -- the worst is over. So we should be able to achieve these -- at least match the previous corresponding quarter results, achieve the same in the current financial year also.

We have the next question from the line of Nitin Awasthi from InCred Equities.

So what is the prevailing rate of ENA in Kolkata?

Kolkata, the rate of ENA is about INR 61.5 to INR 62 per liter. Throughout India, it's almost the same. In Punjab, it was about INR 61.5 to INR 62, there is also the same. But there, we have got advantage. The damaged rice or the broken rice is little less as compared to Punjab. There was the reason that we went to West Bengal. There, the grain prices are lower and the ENA prices are higher and fuel prices are lower and the processing costs will come down. But unlikely that landed in [ 2A ]. Still, you can see that we were able to operate on coal. Otherwise, if [indiscernible] disaster. So we are using at present 80% to 85% of coal as a fuel at Svaksha because there, the local coal supply, they are much cheaper as compared to the Punjab location.

Got it, sir. So next thing I want to ask you is a more broader question on the whole ethanol policy. With the current rates that have come, do you see a slowdown in investments in the ethanol, specifically the grain ethanol segment because [Foreign Language] because of which you are doing superior margins. But the whole industry does not have that.

I certainly agree with you. There could be some, you can say, negative marks on the entire industry, which is only dependent on ethanol and the oil marketing companies. So that's why we raised our project as one of the -- different from the ethanol suppliers because we are able to leverage to manufacture out of the 700 KLPD capacity, 400 KLPD I can do for ethanol -- ENA and 300 KLPD for ethanol. You see that [ Technical Difficulty ] is going to stay, is the price of maize are extraordinary higher...

Sir, can you repeat your last line, there was a beep, which came in the middle. Can you please repeat the last line?

Okay. I will repeat the entire question because I don't remember that what was my last line. I'm not reading from the printed media. So you see that there is certainly a sense of insecurity among the stand-alone ethanol plants. I certainly agree with you. But our both plants are -- it could be flexible that out of the 700 KLPD, when both the extensions are complete, we have got a, you can say, the flexibility to manufacture 400 KLPD of ENA and 300 KLPD of ethanol. Or we can go up to 500 KLPD of ethanol and 200 KLPD of ENA. So we have a leverage on that alone. And you see that this demand of ENA is going to remain. The -- whatever may be the price is because the [ split ] prices doesn't make much of a difference as regards the bottling of branded alcohol is concerned. It is just a -- you can say as per my [ assumption ], it's less than 15% of the cost of their selling price. The main [ focus ] on account of the, you can say, caramel, other branding, marketing, maybe the packing costs or other costs. The spread cost, the ENA cost is just 15% of the total price. So this will remain as the demand is going up, there is a bright future for the ENA [ plus ]. But you said too, it is a licensed control industry, the ENA plant license is very difficult. And the second thing is that the procedure to have a ethanol plant is very, very lengthy as compared to the ethanol plant. ENA plant, you want to have a public hearing. You want to have the entire, you can say, go through the system. To put the ethanol plant, it just takes 1, 1.5 years. To put up a ENA plant, it takes about 3 years because 6 years, 6 months is the environmental impact study and then public hearing, then it goes to the -- the minutes goes to the central government, then they frame the terms of reference, then it again comes to here. Then again, the public objections are invited. Again, it goes to the central government for giving environment clearance. Then it comes to the State [ Provision ] Board, which gives the consent to establish. And then again, we have to -- just this all consent to establish from the starting till the end takes about 1.5 years to 2 years.

Got it. Sure. So is the industry as such representing itself...

Mr. Awasthi, I would request you to please rejoin the queue. There are many other participants. We have the next question from the line of Dilip Aggarwal, an individual investor.

Yes, Mr. Dilip?

Hello?

Yes, we can hear you.

Sir, you have mentioned like that you have experienced some unexpected problem during the commissioning, which led to very high conversion of and some commissioning losses in that part. What does it mean?

You see that the plant has some technical problems. We have to start the plant, again shutdown for rectification. The replacement of a column is that this column has got a height of 120 feet and a die of around about 20 feet. And the weight of this column is around about 50 tonnes, and it comes in 4, 5 pieces and from the workshop and assembled at, you can say, at this site. So it's a huge column. So before coming to a conclusion that it requires a replacement, there are always -- you can see the frequent shutdowns. Sometimes they have team from the scanning team, some from the commissioning team came. And when the production is down, some tripping is also there. So all these things, the commissioning losses -- if the column was okay, the commissioning losses would have been divided in just a month, commissioning would have been completed in [ 50 ] days. So to identify the problem, some shutdowns are required, some local modifications at -- site modifications were done, some scannings were done, then some of the scanography was done, so all -- they were not able to identify the problem. So when you have the teams to inspect and identify a problem, the plant has to be put down and shut down. And when they say start the plant, we have to start the plant. So they're shutting down -- and you see that there was no revenue practically in the month of August. And the fuel cost was around about INR 8 crores in this -- from July, August. And we ended up with, you can say almost, the revenue [ earning ] of INR 7 crores to INR 8 crores. It was only September we decided that we'll not hold any further trials, we'll operate on 70% capacity, and you will have to replace the columns, you will not allow any experiment any further, you just replace the column. So you can say that we have got a standing in the industry, and they agreed to it. So now we are not doing any trial because we know that, that column is not going to work, that needs replacement.

In quarter 3, also, this very high consumption of fuel will be there or it will be mitigated?

No, you see that in this quarter, definitely, we have cost because you see the fuel cost is almost fixed whether you produce 210 KLPD, whether you produce 150 KLPD. This a very, very marginal difference the extent power plant goes up to 83%. Whereas this low capacity, it is 73%. So the extra energy or demand will be met by increasing the extent of the power plant. So we'll be ending up with a zero energy cost as compared to the [ INR 40 ] per liter. So 70 KLPD, that was [ INR 40 ]. So there will be a INR 980,000 per day is the extra costs we are incurring. There will be -- I think losses would not be there, but the profit part, we are far away until and unless we achieve the 100% capacity [indiscernible] because we are regularly operating at 70% without any [indiscernible] these supplies are also going towards these ethanol, state of West Bengal is very much deficient in the ethanol. They don't have ethanol at all.

Sir, in last con call [indiscernible], you said like in quarter 2 also, the structure strategy will be [indiscernible]. So can we expect that in quarter 3, our will be [ decadent ]. Therefore, there will be no further losses as we have incurred like INR 2 crores some luck in quarter 2, or it will be some set benefit?

I think you are right. I think we should -- as far as my estimate, we should not have any losses, except profit, I can't say, but -- which cost has to be -- and then I think we should be able to, you can say, have a breakeven point for not increasing the losses in this current quarter or the third quarter.

[ Given that ] at least we will regain our EBITDA level like we have reported in quarter 1?

Definitely, definitely. If not quarter 1, we should be able to match the corresponding quarter because there is a seasonal type of a thing. Every quarter has its own merits and demerits. So we don't actually see the previous quarter. We only have the corresponding quarter because there's a product mix change every quarter. So we should be able to match the -- or we should be able to achieve the corresponding quarter results in the current quarter.

We have the next question that is a follow-up question from the line of Dipesh Sancheti from Manya Finance.

I was disconnected in between. Most of the questions were answered, but I just wanted to know what is the debt level [Technical Difficulty]? How does it come [Technical Difficulty]?

Debt level. [Foreign Language] I think debt we have got a fresh debt for this INR 120 crores from [ Kerala] Bank for this extension at Bhatinda. Previous debt is just about INR 88 crores [Foreign Language] 200 KLPD [Foreign Language] That's already paid only about INR 8 crores to INR 9 crores -- INR 8.5 crores of debt. That's in working capital.

So I believe last time, it was around INR 170 crores for working capital and INR 180 crores term loan, right? Is that the same?

No, no, no. That was -- not for the term loan. We didn't have any. Including the [ vehicle ] finance and everything you're talking about, I think total about [Foreign Language]. So we'll be having a debt of about INR 385 crores, including the Svaksha one, including the -- this expanded portion and including the working capital facilities, all, you can say, term loans taken together, whether it's against rent discounting or whatever may be. The total debt would be around about INR 385 crores.

And you have mentioned 4.5% is the interest cost on the new term loan. What is the average total interest cost?

At our -- this Bhatinda facility is at 7.35% and the Svaksha loan is at 8.4%, 8.5%. So Svaksha loan is from -- at 8.5%. And one thing I also mentioned that the 100 KLPD expansion, which we are undertaking now at Svaksha, which will be undertaken in -- after the, you can say, receiving the -- you can say, 100% capacity utilization at Svaksha, that is also -- that also qualifies for the interest of Amazon [ scheme ]. For that, we have already received the in-principle extension of INR 70 crores from [ Kerala ] Bank. And that will be qualifying for the interest [ supervision ] scheme for 50% of the, you can say, interest cost or 6%, whichever is lower.

Okay. That's great. Are we planning to increase our stake because the shareholding -- promoter shareholding is around 61%? Are you planning to infuse capital by preferential like we did a few years back or nothing of that is there to reduce the debt basically?

No, the debt will come down ultimately with the cash approvals. You see that as I mentioned, when Varinder was asking this from Omkara Capital, that next year, we are expecting a cash flow of over INR 200 crores from the Distillery segment itself, leaving the [indiscernible]. So we can see all the expansions, all the CapEx cost is complete. So company doesn't need any capital infusion at present. So we will be not issuing and we are not going to be public for this maybe issue of public equity or some capital being infused by the promoters. So that will remain the same.

You mentioned about the global Edible Oil [indiscernible] -- sorry?

At first, we don't have any such kind of plan.

You don't have any plans of increasing our stake from 61%?

No, we don't have.

Okay. And you mentioned about the global edible oil prices, which we should monitor for our product in the global edible prices?

Global edible oil, you can say that mainly be imported from the Indonesia and Malaysia in the palm oil. And the second, the basket is of soybean oil. Third is sunflower oil. And fourth is [indiscernible]. But you see that the total import, about 80% or 82% of the import market comes from this soybean oil and palm oil. Majority is palm oil and second is the soybean oil. So you must have read in the newspaper that Indonesia at one point of time, with the rise in prices, banned the export of Malaysian palm oil to the world. But their tanks are full because they also got panicked that the local public is being burdened by high price of this vegetable oil as being a sensitive commodity. So they also took that decision. Ultimately, that led to the increase, very high increase in the prices due to the scarcity of the material or the product and when they lifted the ban, it went up. So that was the kind of maybe at front playing and maybe -- can't comment on these things that the -- that is -- never seen in my life that the price is going up by $1,000 per tonne and coming again coming back to $1,000 per tonne. The prices, which we settled in the first quarter, we sold our entire, you can say, contracted quantity at $1,970 per metric ton. And when the price was rooting at INR 2,050, INR 2070, we took the benefit of that. And later on, it came to INR 1,000, even at one point of time, it was -- touched $900. This is a short span of 6 months, price going up like this and coming down, is unprecedented and never seen before. So that was the reason that they can -- it's not only my company, every vegetable oil company, you must see that all these results are being affected by this kind of scenario. I think things are clear.

In what I have seen the price rise or the price in the last 45 days of Q3, there has been somewhat -- it ended in Q2. From September 30th September to right now, what is the price increase?

No, you think that in the [indiscernible]. It was a free fall in the market. So there has been some recovery. That's about $900, so now it's about $1,000. So there has been a recovery of $100 per tonne, which is nominal, which was expected. And now the things -- normal things we have resumed the operation because such a high fluctuation fear as, you can say, free for our mind. So we can work now because the dealers were also not buying. They were also not sure that we can -- they don't have any mistake. It was the imports came down heavily. And apart from that, there was a currency fluctuation also in this period, everything happening together.

As that was the last question for today that the management could answer. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments. Sir, any closing comment?

Thank you, everybody. Thanks so much, and you are rightly regarding the working of the company. I think we are on the right step and right footing. We should have a good improvement in the coming 2 quarters go for . Thank you, everybody. Thank you very much.

Thank you, sir. On behalf of Quantum Securities Private Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.