Black Box Limited (500463) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Q4 and FY '25 Earnings Conference Call of Black Box Limited. This conference call may contain certain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date of this call. The statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now would like to hand the conference over to Mr. Sanjeev Verma, Whole-Time Director and CEO of Black Box Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Welcome, everyone, to Black Box Limited's Q4 and Full Year FY '25 Earnings Call. Today, I'll take you through our business performance for the quarter, provide update on key strategic initiatives and share our road map for reaching our long-term growth targets. Following that, our CFO, Deepak Bansal, will present the financial update and forward-looking guidance. We are pleased to report a strong close to FY '25. In Q4, revenue grew 4% year-over-year with while EBITDA and PAT increased 21% and 48% Y-o-Y, respectively. This translated into all-time high margins, EBITDA at 9.5% and PAT at 3.9%. These metrics emphasize our operational discipline and financial rigor. Over the past several years, we focused intensely on stabilizing Black Box and transforming it into a resilient and profitable enterprise. For context, Black Box was a distressed U.S.-based business when AGC Networks acquired it in 2019, later renaming the company as Black Box Limited. Since then, we have executed a multiyear turnaround. EBITDA margin expanded from 2.5% in FY '19 to 8.9% in FY '25, while PAT improved from a loss of INR 79 crores in FY '19 to INR 205 crores in FY '25. With the foundation now solid, we are shifting our focus from stabilization to growth, targeting revenues of USD 2 billion by fiscal '29 and aiming to expand our global market share to 1.5% to 2%. To reward our shareholders, the Board has proposed a final dividend of 50% INR 1 per share on face value of INR 2, subject to approval. Throughout FY '25, we launched a series of strategic initiatives to support long-term growth, most of which were implemented by quarter 3. These included verticalizing our business to better align with client needs, strengthening our leadership team and sales force by hiring talent from global GSIs and other leading industry players and doubling down on large account strategy to drive deeper engagement and higher wallet share. These efforts significantly enhanced our sales pipeline culminating in record order wins of INR 1,550 crores in Q4, more than twice the level of Q3 and the highest for any quarter in fiscal '25. These wins include multiyear contracts with hyperscale clients, health care networks, airports and educational institutions. We also continue to execute a large ongoing engagement with a top-tier U.S. financial services firm. Importantly, the majority of these wins are high-value, long tenure contracts. Our managed and maintenance services business grew $61 million sequentially, which improves revenue predictability and enhances margin visibility going forward. The U.S. remains our most critical growth market, driven by scale and technology adoption. We have carefully assessed the potential impact of macro headwinds such as tariffs and believe this will have minimal effect on our business. The demand for digital transformation, improved user experience and AI-driven solutions remains nondiscretionary. The investment climate in AI remains robust. One of our hyperscaler clients has increased its CapEx guidance. According to S&P Global, just the 5 AI hyperscalers are projected to spend over $1.6 trillion in CapEx between 2025 and 2029. A recent Bank of America report forecasts AI CapEx to grow 44% Y-o-Y to USD 414 billion in fiscal '25. Industry estimates show AI-related markets growing at a CAGR of 30% to 37% through 2032, a trend we are positioned to benefit from significantly. While the U.S. is our anchor market, India represents a compelling structural opportunity. India has 4x the U.S. population, yet only 1 gigawatt of data center capacity, a fraction of U.S. levels despite being the world's highest data consumer. This supply-demand imbalance represents a long-term opportunity for us. We are leveraging global expertise, especially in serving hyperscale clients to build leadership in India's digital infrastructure ecosystem. Key wins include a 5-year cybersecurity contract of INR 100 crores with one of India's largest municipal corporations, protecting digital assets of over 20,000 public sector employees. We have committed an additional INR 100 crores to double our India business and are expanding our Bangalore center of excellence. Our growth push also extends across APAC and the Middle East. Notably, we secured a large INR 90 crores order from a consumer electronics firm in APAC and inaugurated a state-of-the-art security operations center and data networking lab in Sydney, addressing the growing need for cybersecurity and high-performance networks in Australia. As of March 2025, our order book stands at USD 504 million, up USD 39 million sequentially. While we are refraining from specific order book guidance, our revenue target of USD 2 billion by fiscal '29 remains firmly intact. Our execution in FY '25 positions us well for the next leg of growth. With that, I'll now hand over to Deepak, our CFO, for the financial update.

Thank you, Sanjeev. As mentioned, FY '25 was a landmark year for Black Box. We achieved historically high margins driven by operational efficiency, pricing discipline and strategic cost management. Over the last 3 years, our EBITDA and PAT have grown at a CAGR of 27% and 41%, respectively. Our profit after tax increased nearly 9x from INR 24 crores in FY '23 to INR 205 crores in FY '25. Quarter 4 EBITDA rose to INR 147 crores, translating to a 9.5% margin, up from 8.2% in quarter 4 of FY '24, an expansion of 130 bps. PAT for the quarter stood at INR 60 crores, growing 49% year-on-year. For FY '26, we are guiding for EBITDA growth of 14% to 22% and PAT growth of 29% to 39%. These gains will be driven by operating leverage, improved service mix and continued focus on quality of revenues. While FY '25 revenue was marginally lower than FY '24 linked to our strategy to exit tail accounts and due to delays in decision-making by a few large clients because of the dynamic economic environment. However, our strategic initiatives have positioned us for a revenue ramp-up from quarter 2 FY '26 onwards, supported by a stronger pipeline conversion and higher win rates on enterprise opportunities. We continue to maintain a strong balance sheet and healthy liquidity position, providing flexibility to pursue both organic and inorganic growth. During the quarter, working capital investment led to higher debt, primarily driven by revenue skewness within the quarter and proactive supplier engagement. Despite that, we delivered a robust ROE of 27% for FY '25. In recognition of our financial progress, CRISIL upgraded our long-term rating to BBB+/Stable in March of 2025. We remain committed to a capital-light model with disciplined capital deployment. Thank you. We can now open the floor for questions.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ CA Garvit Goyal ] from Nvest Analysis Advisory LLP.

Congrats for a decent quarter. My first question is on the order inflow. We got good orders in the past few months. And I want to understand from you more on the current environment. Like what kind of bid line are we currently in? What is the size of orders are we expecting in next few months? And what are those areas where we are targeting these orders? And you mentioned like in FY '25, our customers were a bit -- showing a bit delays in decision making. So in current environment, are you still witnessing anything like that?

I will take it. Yes. So I think our focus on order book, as we mentioned earlier, we have been focused with our change in go-to-market strategy with larger customers, our top 300 and larger value and volume of customers. So our approach will remain to focus on large deals and remain focused on our top 300 customers for where we believe we have the right to win, both locally and globally. Quarter 4, as mentioned, has been a robust quarter with respect to our order booking. As we get into the motion of this current fiscal year, several quarters, we expect that our effort over the last several quarters with respect to change in go-to-market, investing heavily in our vertical motions, investing in leadership will continue to create the momentum for robust order booking going forward as well. So coming back with the perspective of what we have currently a little bit of uncertainty. I think we have baked in that as well. Yes, there is an issue pertaining to tariff and there is some uncertainty in the market. But I believe our overall portfolio remains largely nondiscretionary. We remain a little cautious but very optimistic with respect to our pipeline growth and therefore, expect that we will continue to have a good order book motion going forward. Specific to what areas we see, we currently focus on 5 key areas of connectivity, networking, workplace, cyber and data center. We expect that our overall portfolio, each one of them will have growth. Some of them will see a little bit hyper growth, specifically in the data center and networking space. Specific to industry verticals, although all the industries have requirements for having gone discretionary spend, specifically in the areas that we operate. The network and digital infrastructure needs to be up and running. But a few specific areas of large-scale infrastructure, specifically to industrials, public infrastructure like airports and health care facilities that needs to be current are specific focus for us going forward. So all in all, we expect that many of our verticals are in the sector that we are focused on, specifically health care, industrial and public infrastructure. And our portfolios across this will continue to push forward. So we expect a robust order book going forward for the current year as well.

Got it, sir. And secondly, as you mentioned, and we are focusing on the data centers apart from being the traditional IT company. So I want to understand like how much percentage of our existing revenues is repetitive in nature? And how much is going to be dependent upon the kind of order inflows we are talking about from the hyper growth areas like data centers, cybersecurity and connectivity you mentioned. So can you put some color on that?

Yes. So we expect our data center revenues to be in the range of 15% to 20% of our business. A large part of the data center, which is a greenfield starts with projects. And we expect over a period of time that, that would turn into annuity as well. As you heard before, our focus remains for long-term contracts both from managed service perspective and also projects. But once we close the projects, it turns into annuity as well. So we expect that as we move forward in fiscal '26 and beyond, our projects in large-scale infrastructure like data center connectivity would start to yield managed services as well as we continue to focus on other managed services, large term contracts into health care, into our retail businesses. So we will continue to focus on larger projects, and we'll continue to focus on large-scale managed services annuity kind of business across other verticals as well.

And out of total revenue right now, like we did INR 6,000 crores this year. What percentage is repetitive in nature?

Around 30% is repetitive in nature as of now. So 1/3 -- between 30% and 1/3 because the ratio changes quarter-on-quarter. But I think on a yearly basis, it is almost like 1/3 of our revenue is repetitive in nature.

And what are those areas? Is it entirely the traditional IT services that we are doing?

Services and maintenance. Sorry. Yes, go ahead.

Those areas largely are managed services for our modern workplace, managed services for network, managed services for IT help desk and support. Those are the areas that are large-scale annuity in nature.

Got it. And sir, in your opening remarks, you mentioned about $2 billion target by FY '29, which essentially comes out to be around INR 17,000 crores, INR 18,000 crores kind of top line. And currently, we are at INR 6,000 crores. And for next year, we are targeting about 10%, 12% kind of growth in our top line. So considering this higher target, how are we looking at it? Like are we looking for any inorganic opportunity this year or currently any kind of opportunities in pipeline which can materialize in the next few months? So can you please put some color on that?

So our overall focus of $2 billion includes organic and inorganic growth. So we expect our organic growth momentum from the current 12% to 15% to continue or move up. Having said that, that will still leave us for a gap for inorganic growth. So we continue to look at opportunities which are accretive for our shareholders. We continue to look at various assets in Americas and elsewhere. At the right time, when we believe that there is an opportunity to comment on that, we would. But as a company, we remain acquisitive, but also keep mindful that we remain -- we look at being accretive. So we would be exploring assets and it is part of our plan going forward.

And right now, we are not having anything in pipeline?

So as I said, we continue to look at assets. We continue to have in the pipeline, but there's nothing concrete for me to say at this time.

Got it. And sir, on the tariff front, after this posing tariff, how do you see -- is it going to impact our services like our business model in the terms of the cost optimization and all because 70% of our revenue is coming from the Northern America.

Yes. So tariffs largely have a limited impact on us with respect to our -- we are largely services led. So I don't see a tariff, but I will ask Deepak, my CFO to comment on that.

Yes. So on the tariff side of it, what happens is that 75% of our revenues in U.S. And if you see our revenues, it has 3 components. One is our on-ground services. Second is we sell the OEM products and the third is our own products. So no impact of tariffs on the services and -- because the services has no tariffs. The OEM products are purchased locally from OEMs. So OEMs are figuring out to handle those tariffs, including their stocking requirement and all those things. If they will increase their prices, obviously, we will pass through those prices to our customers. So as such, there is no impact. Our own products, we source mostly from Europe and Taiwan. So from Europe and Taiwan perspective, we are still -- the tariff, I think, should be not to the extent of what we were talking about earlier. Now with China also like right now, it is at 40% and all. We are expecting that whole tariff thing to be, let's say, stabilized between 20% and 40%, depending on the countries and all those things. And especially with Europe, Taiwan and all those things, it should be in the range of 20%, which should be okay. As of now, we pay mostly 10%. So 10% more will increase, which I think we will increase our prices a little bit with the industry practice and all those things. So we don't see as such any impact on the overall tariff thing. Whatever the economy impact in terms of right now, the evolving economical impact where the few industries will do good and few industries like the manufacturing will emerge in the U.S. and all those things, those all will be accretive logically to us. It may take some time to ascertain because people are right now holding off some of the decisions. People are taking those decisions with a cautious approach. But I think we are seeing that on an overall basis, I think we should be able to gain from the overall scenario.

So that is where my concern is. You mentioned 10% incremental addition will be there for the -- ultimately, that will be passed on to the customers. So is it like they again might be the case, they will be looking for some delay in decision-making and that can further decrease.

No. Sorry. Garvit, this is not on the overall revenues. So our own product revenue is around $100 million. So on $100 million, we source close to around $40 million to $50 million worth of goods. On that, there may be a 10% impact. So this is on the goods. And then -- and it is an overall industry impact. So we don't see that any demand will come down because of that in United States. And out of that $100 million of the revenues, the U.S. revenue is close to around $45 million. So from that perspective, the impact is extremely, extremely nominal from our overall scale and size.

Got it. That means you are saying there is no delays in the decision-making on account of these uncertainties is what I'm understanding, right?

Yes, that is the overall economic environment, which will evolve from an overall industry perspective. So overall industries are watching right now that how this tariff scenario is evolving. You would have seen in last 4 weeks that the tariffs have gone for some countries between 30% to 140%. But then again, right now, it is ranging between 10% to 40%. So nobody really has the crystal ball here. Everybody is watching that how really it emerges and all those things. And accordingly, the decisions are being taken.

Next question is from the line of [ Haley ] from Pi Square Investment.

Congratulations to the entire team for very good set of numbers. So I just wanted to understand like can you talk more on the order pipeline as to how much percentage of the orders that are in pipeline?

Sorry to interrupt ma'am, you're not clearly audible. Next question is from the line of Saurabh Sadhwani from Sahasrar Capital.

So I wanted to know about the large orders that we have secured. What would be the time line for execution for those orders?

For average project, execution time line are between anything between 6 months to 2 years, right? So depending upon what kind of orders we get. So on average, it is, say, if you go out and average, it's about 9 to 12 months' time, depending on the kind of projects we do. So if there are more services, I think it takes a longer period of time. And if there are a little bit more products, it will possibly be a shorter period of time. But on average, about 9 months' time. Deepak?

Yes. So -- and also another thing is that on an average, it is 100% right, 9 months' time. And while we -- from the next quarter and the next couple of quarters, 3 quarters, when we move forward with the large orders with the large customers, this and focus on the managed services and the maintenance, the managed services and the maintenance contracts will be in the range of 3 to 5 years, but the project time line on an average will continue to be 9 to 10 months' time.

Okay. And you do expect to get the size -- the order of -- the large orders that you have received similar orders in FY '26 also?

That is correct. So our focus remains -- our pipeline remains robust for large orders. As you could understand, large orders have a time lag because large orders are -- it takes time. But once you have the ball rolling and the pipeline growing, I believe it will start to roll. So the focus will remain on large orders, upward of $5 million, $10 million, $20 million working with larger clients, and that's where we want to focus on with top 300 customers and large value customers.

So Sanjeev, where would you say we are in the life cycle because these large orders are CapEx-led and there must be an end of cycle period now that we are getting these orders. So is this supposed to continue?

Two ways to look at it. So we are in a time of digital infrastructure where we are seeing after a lot of years, both greenfield and brownfield. To put in perspective, if you look at the infrastructure build-out for data centers for which we play a certain part, many of them are greenfield, right? So this never existed. So they are getting built both in India, worldwide. So that's a greenfield approach. And of course, if you look at the need for AI, need for better user experience, need for modernization, there's also a brownfield. Brownfield will require in a cyclical manner. Of course, they will sweat the asset 3 years, 4 years, and you have to catch the cycle. But there is a greenfield also, a combination of greenfield and brownfield. With respect to critical infrastructure, if you look at our focused portfolio of connectivity and network, it is fundamental to user experience. Today, whatever we do is based on user experience, be it we order -- we ask for a cab or we order food or we go to an airport and the gate opens up for -- with our cameras, it requires physical connectivity, network, wireless network and so on and so forth, right? So there is a lot of brownfield repurpose to meet the needs of user experience. And there is a need for greenfield because they expect this user experience to only get enhanced, right? So from a cycle perspective, we are trying to catch the greenfield by being including in the consideration rate as a preferred or a vendor to have a right to win. So we are trying to increase and focus and therefore, the vertical approach so that we are more relevant. And from a brownfield perspective, many of our existing customers are repurposing. And we are also looking at how can we gain market share from others with respect to our scale, our presence. A combination of our use cases, a combination of our presence in many markets allows us -- will allow us for a better right to win for larger customers. And therefore, the larger customers value our presence, value our presence in 36 countries, value our presence in India, value our presence in Europe. So I think that's the reason we are focusing on them. And we are seeing traction with respect to what we saw in this last quarter. And our pipeline, we continue to focus on, and we expect the momentum to continue with respect to order booking backlog over the course of the next several quarters and years beyond.

Next question is from the line of [ Haley ] from Pi Square Investment.

Congratulations on a strong set of numbers. I wanted to understand, so can you talk more on the order pipeline as to what percentage of the order pipeline are we seeing from the larger customers? And what percentage are we seeing from a smaller set of customers? So I just wanted to get a sense on how are we -- so as this quarter, we had a subdued revenue because of the delayed decisions combined with our changed strategy to focus on the larger deals. So I just wanted to understand how long are we going to take to change the mix of the customers and shift to the larger deals?

So we have already started the process of changing and shifting. This process started over the last several quarters with respect to our investment and redesign in go-to-market by hiring vertical heads, bringing in thought leaders in our solution practice. So there has been work in progress, and it works on a lag. It takes a little bit of a time to be able to move that. An impact of that has already started to come in with respect to the last quarter that went by, which we talked about having several customers where we have seen our large value. It was a quarter where we had a significant amount of customers with large value for the first time. As we move forward, we continue to focus and see our pipeline swelling. It's a continuous effort that we are doing across vertical segments and across our various practices, both in managed services, data center projects, networking projects and so on and so forth. Our focus is to increase our pipeline from wherever we are moving forward on one side. And the focus is also be able to increase our win rate within those customer sets that we have going forward. A combination of increased pipeline and a focused approach of winning more, increasing our win rate percentages by having relevant conversations. We believe that we have a good path forward for continuing to increase our backlogs and order book going forward.

Sure. So can we have a breakup on what percentage of the pipeline is from the larger customers?

So we are -- 80% of our business is from larger customers. Close to 80% to 90% of our pipeline remains with our larger top 300 customers. And as we move forward, I believe our -- 90% of our pipeline will continue with our top 300 to top 400 customers. That's where we are focused on.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of [ Suhas ] from Shreya Capital.

I just want to -- you just spoke about FY '29 target of $2 billion, including organic and inorganic. So as we are now getting out of the low-paying customers or less margin business, how do you see the margins moving from here, say, over the next 3 years? And like what are the peak margins that you are looking at in this business that you might attain over the next 3 years?

Yes. So from a perspective, going forward, we have stated our goal of initially of hitting our 10% margin goal. So we are almost there from that perspective. We believe that when we scale up, it will start to bring in a margin efficiency. So from an internal perspective, we are looking to push this margin that we are currently at 8.9% to 10% to 11% to 12% and beyond. So there is scope for margin expansion as we scale up over the next several years' time. Currently, we are guiding our focus for next fiscal year, right? And from that perspective, we have guided over 9%. But I expect as we move forward, there is room for margin expansion, and we'll go higher than 10%, 11%, 12% as we move forward.

So where do you see like next year and where you think the exit margins could be?

Yes. So the next year-end, the exit margin should be upward of 10% for sure.

My second question is in terms of the managed services, which, as you said, more like an annuity business. So currently, what is the share of that business in our total revenue? And where do you see as you're getting larger contracts and including then you also have a managed services along with that. So where do you see your managed services as a percentage of business over the next 3 years?

Okay. Our managed services and annuity business that includes maintenance contract, as Deepak alluded, is close to 1/3 at this time. Our short-term goal is to push that number over to 40%. And as we move forward over the next several years' time, I would expect our managed annuity business to be about 50%-50% as we start to move towards '27, '28, '29.

And I'm sure they must be giving you a higher margin vis-a-vis your project business.

Yes. So we expect that to give us higher margin with respect to -- it gives us predictability. It gives us ability to better deliver. And with scale, of course, we expect better margin as well. The answer is yes.

Next question is from the line of Vivek, an individual investor.

I just wanted to say, so exit Q4 run rate is about $730 million, $740 million, and we've set ourselves a very lofty target of $2 billion. I mean I've been tracking the company for the past 6 quarters, and we've barely grown on the top line. So what gives us the confidence that because we're almost talking about tripling our revenues over the next 16 quarters. So when do you think we'll start walking the talk? And secondly, from an organization perspective, you've said that the GTM strategy has been completely enhanced. So can you talk to us a bit qualitatively as to what difference you've seen on the ground? And your Q4 order booking was very good. How has Q1 been so far? And should we start to see signs of growth, say, about a double-digit growth from Q2 this year?

Okay. So I'll break it in 2 parts. The first question was with respect to $2 billion, Vivek. The $2 billion, of course, includes an inorganic strategy to the tune of $600 million, $700 million. If you look at organic growth at mid-double digits, we will possibly reach close to $1.3 billion, $1.4 billion, right? So that's one. So I'll park the inorganic separately, and that's -- as I said earlier in my response, we continue to look at assets. And at the right time, we'll pursue. And of course, we will communicate as we move forward on that. Coming back with respect to our organic growth from now moving forward. First, the GTM approach. The GTM, of course, was largely to focus on large value customers and focus on us as a set of customers in a specific vertical. And I think a large part of that is mostly complete. And therefore, we are now in full motion staffed appropriately to be able to engage with customers in each of the verticals and have a conversation commensurate to the needs of the vertical. Earlier, as you are aware, we were geography-centric. And therefore, the conversation was largely based on portfolio of what we had and not on the need for a customer in a specific vertical. And that we have hired talent. What we have seen over the period of time over the last 2, 3 quarters that the quality of engagement and conversation with our customers have drastically improved. Within our set of customers that we had, we had good logos and also some newer customer logos that we have added that has started to mature. We look at sales from a Stage 1 to Stage 5. So when you reach a Stage 3, we start to engage with some -- with a specific need to address. You're starting to get considered. So if you look from that perspective, I think we have made significant progress. A reasonable part of that has started to accrue starting Q4. As we start to move forward, the pipeline continues to remain in each of the verticals, some little more, some little less, but health care, consumer, data center vertical, public infrastructure like airports continue to be strong for us. And we expect those pipelines to start to convert and we expect to see our revenues uptick to double digit going forward from Q2 onwards. And I think we have -- that's what we have stated. So we remain very positive of the investments made, of the conversations being made. I've personally being engaged with very many customers more recently but we are heading out for a very large health care conference with top 20 CIOs are invited to attend with us for 2.5 days with conversations across modern workplace, across the networks. So we are seeing those investments, those conversations changing. We will continue to push for the momentum, Vivek, as we move forward in this quarter and quarter beyond. And I'm positive with respect to our revenue uptick starting quarter 2 at the back of continued good order booking going forward.

Sanjeev, basis what you've just said, just to put a bit more emphasis. So even on the base business, if we are to hit about $1.3 billion, $1.4 billion over the next 4 years, that's about a 17%, 18% CAGR over the next 4 years. Are you confident on achieving that? I mean, starting with maybe a 10% to 15% growth this year and then our growth ramps up even further as we go into FY '27 and '28. So I mean, just as a company, our 4-year target has to be 18% of the base business and...

Yes. So I think -- so the answer is yes, we remain confident and positive on that. We're guiding between 13% and 17% for the current year. And as we move forward, we expect the acceleration with some of our sectors, more specifically in the markets that we were low. For example, if you look at India, we have just called out that we want to double the business, right? We were not focused on India. We are now getting ready to look at certain infrastructure and larger projects where we believe that we can add value. We do not want to be everything to everybody even in India. We recently won INR 100 crores order in India. In my memory, we hadn't done that in the past 10 years with any customer because we were not focused for various reasons. So we looked at India also now starting to emerge. There's a need for global players with good use cases. So our growth would not only be as that pertain to America. We are looking at India also as a market. We recently won a large deal in APAC as well. We recently opened up a security center in Sydney, and we're expecting a large deal in a security center there. So overall, I believe we would be able to be at mid-double digits in the current year. And we expect in some of the other markets, which will be much more than that. We're expecting over 60% growth. We are a small INR 500 crore business in India, right? So growing 60% is adding INR 300 crores. So some of the markets will be growing at a higher pace, although smaller in terms of percentage contribution. But yes, we are positive we should be able to drive that goal to go to $1.3 billion, $1.4 billion.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of [ CA Garvit Goyal ] from Nvest Analytics Advisory LLP.

Sir, you mentioned most of our offerings are nondiscretionary in nature. So can you spend 2, 3 minutes on explaining this statement like what are the areas -- nondiscretionary means they have to compulsorily invest in the areas which we are catering to, right? So can you please explain what is driving this statement?

If you look at -- okay, so what is driving this experience is fundamental, of course, is user experience. If you look at an enterprise and if you look at what goes in enterprise, various IT components. And if you look at the wireless system being down for your office or being old, 3 years old and one wanting to implement a new software for analytics. And if you had a choice of where to spend money and you were limited, it is clear where you will spend the money first, right? For your critical infrastructure, for connectivity, for wireless working, for the network working would be required to be done. You will be able to do that. If you're rolling out an ERP system, your CFO might want to push it for next year if there is a ambiguity in the market, uncertainty, interest rates, but lights on is required, right? So if you were to run out of that. So from that perspective, if you look at an airport that we serve, for us to travel, the network has to be up. They may not modernize their ticketing system for some time and they can live with the old one, but our network is lights on. Our connectivity is lights on. User who's using our voice communication system or a wireless system to communicate is lights on. So we are into the core infrastructure business. We call ourselves as a [indiscernible] as a company. So those are nondiscretionary. If they break, you have to fix it or if they get old, you have to replace that first. Some of the others good to have, you might want to change. So that's the perspective of having -- it's like a broken road, right? So I think you will have to fix the road if that is broken because that is going to give a very bad experience for people traveling on the road, correct? You may -- even if you get a nice bus, which is a nice application and the road is broken, you will have a bad experience. So -- and we all know what happens in Mumbai when it rains, right? So therefore, digital infrastructure is the digital highway. And if you do not have that up and running, you'll have a very poor experience. So that's what I'm saying.

Next question is from the line of Rohan Patel from Turtle Capital.

Sir, what I have looked from our presentation is from -- since last one year, we are not mentioning about in-building 5G solutions and DAS. So is it that we have reduced the exposure towards that stream?

No. So our in-building DAS solutions of private 5G is part of our networking business. Specifically in our market -- in America, in-building DAS or 5G, especially in-building DAS is critical for safety and public safety, specifically in hospitals or large infrastructure, and we continue to do that. There is a technology shift towards going towards private 5G, not fully adopted at this time. But there is a lot of work happening largely on the industrial side with large open areas where wireless -- you cannot put a pole and put an access point for the wireless as they're exploring that. We are doing a proof of concept with some airports. We are doing a proof of concept with large industrial operations like oil and gas and fab plants. So our in-building DAS and 5G or private 5G network are part of a larger networking portfolio. So be it wireless, wired, software-defined networks, DAS networks, 5G are now working in tandem, and it is a critical part of the infrastructure. So it is part of our networking portfolio. We don't specifically call it out as to specific to that, but that remains a part and parcel, a very critical part of network infrastructure.

Okay. So if just I want to understand from you and your point of view is that being that the number of airports that are coming in India as well as the number of stadiums which are there in India. And as we mentioned, there are a lot of commercial sites, industrial sites that are in India. So how big of an opportunity do you sense that it is -- India as a whole provides for a DAS system or in-building solution system? Is it large enough for us to cater and make money?

Okay. So in India, of course, specifically, it is a little bit of a confused state for that solution, and let me explain. because in a DAS solution, there are 3 key players. One, of course, is the user who is using a cell phone. There is a tenant in the building. There's a building owner and then you have the telecom provider. In India, it is Jio, it is Airtel. And India is not sorted out as to who is going to pay for that, right? So therefore, there is no mandate pertaining to having a public safety requirement or real-time location requirement. So our hospitals or some other infrastructure, you find some dark and gray areas where signals don't come. In America, there is a regulation mandated by law, specifically in public critical infrastructure that must have a signal at every part of the building, basement open areas. And therefore, there is a spend happening in that. So it is a large opportunity. India, of course, might skip the technology, go to private 5G. Currently, it is with BSNL. So it is -- there is a discussion going on of revenue share with some providers. It will become a bigger opportunity. Specific to your question pertaining to stadium and other infrastructure, it is a matter of who's going to pay for that, right? So I think if it's an Airtel network and some areas don't work, whether the stadium owner or BCCI or who will pay, that has not been settled. So therefore, India still struggles with some signal issues in many parts. There could be a regulation with respect to providing connectivity in infrastructure that are critical, hospitals could be one, airports could be other. So it is a huge opportunity just that the capital spend has not been sorted out. If the building owner starts to charge, the rent will go up. The guys in the building is saying, I've anyway paid you the rent and Airtel is saying, you don't have many users, so I can't put more antennas. So that's the issue out there. So it's not -- it's never been a large business in India. Having said that, private 5G can change that. The private 5G does not require so many access points. The coverage is more than a couple of kilometers, but it is a licensing issue and it's a technology issue. But I think India will see that. And as and when we start to have those conversations, as I told before, we are looking at India in a bullish manner. We have massive use cases. We are highly expert in putting DAS systems for very large infrastructure, hospitals, customers like large hyperscalers. So we are exploring to see at the right time to be able to address that. But from our perspective, we have to make sure it remains a profitable business for us and somebody has to invest in that technology and somebody has to make an ROI of the technology.

Ladies and gentlemen, as there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to management for closing comments.

Thank you, everybody, for joining the call. I hope we have been able to address all your queries. For any further information, kindly get in touch with Purvesh Parekh, our Head of Investor Relations, or Strategic Growth Advisors, our Investor Relations advisers. Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of Black Box Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.