Boozt AB (publ) (BOOZT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to the Boozt Q4 2024 report presentation. [Operator Instructions] Now I will hand the conference over to CEO Hermann Haraldsson and CFO Sandra Gadd. Please go ahead.

Thank you. And welcome, all, to our Q4 Webcast. I think we have a busy day ahead of us, so let's just turn to the first slide. And yes, we ended the year with a top line growth of some 6.3%, so at the low end of the guidance that we communicated back in February. We had, of course, hoped for more, but given the quite challenging market conditions, we believe that we have managed quite well in 2024. The adjusted EBIT margin increased to 5.7% from 5.2% last year. And this was mainly due to the exemption from Norwegian customs which we obtained during the year. So just to make it crystal clear: The exception is, of course, also applicable going forward, so the 5.7% margin is a new base going forward. Moving on to the fourth quarter. Revenue increased by 4%, and this growth was driven by Booztlet. Revenue from Booztlet increased by 36% in the quarter, supported by the price initiatives that we started in Q3. We came into the second half of the year with some elevated stock levels and which is why we used Booztlet to clear old stock so that Boozt.com could focus on the current season only. Boozt.com declined by 2% in the quarter, very much impacted by the low consumer confidence as well as the exceptional strong performance last year. Our department store KPIs continue to improve. And looking at the full year, we now generate more than 40% of our sales from the product categories outside of fashion. All this is supported by our continuously high customer satisfaction. In the quarter, the Net Promoter Score was 72 and our Trustpilot score was 4.4, so remaining well above industry average. The adjusted EBIT margin for the quarter was 9.9% compared with 7.7% in Q4 last year, and the improvement was mainly driven by the exemption from Norwegian customs. However, adjusting for this, the margin still increased around 60 basis points in the quarter, reflecting among other things a slightly lower marketing cost ratio. In the quarter, we continued our share buyback program. And in total, we've bought back shares for SEK 162 million in 2024, equal to almost 2% of the share capital. Since the last AGM, we've bought back shares for SEK 60 million. As decided at the last AGM, in April '24, the current buyback program is in total SEK 200 million. And we plan to buy the remaining SEK 136 million during the next couple of months, so we maintain our plan of buying back shares for SEK 800 million in total. Looking ahead, we expect to increase revenue with 4% to 9% -- or in -- between 4% to 9% in 2025 while increasing the adjusted EBIT margin to between 5.8% and 6.5%. I will come back to our 2025 guidance later in the presentation. So if we could turn to the next slide. In 2024, we continued our journey to cement our position as the Nordic department store, which is the cornerstone of our strategy. This, as we have highlighted on previous occasions, brings numerous advantages such as high average order value, lower return rates compared to operating as a fashion-only store and greater customer loyalty. I believe that the advantages of pursuing the department store strategy became quite clear during 2024, as a soft demand in fashion, especially women's fashion, was compensated by growth in the other categories. So the categories truly act as a hedging mechanism in a volatile trading environment. For the full year 2024, Boozt generated more than -- Boozt.com generated more than 40% of its revenue from categories outside of fashion, increasing from 39% in '23 to 42% in 2024. The short-term goal is to increase category share to 50%, and long term, categories should be somewhere around 65% of the overall business. Home, Beauty, Sports and Kids are steadily evolving into strong categories on their own. And we believe that especially Kids and Sports are becoming market-leading verticals on their own. In Beauty and Home, there is still some way to go with regards to assortment and availability. Also, the share of customers shopping from multiple categories increased in '24, going from 51% to 52%. It's a modest increase, but we have take -- we have to take into consideration that cohorts have been holding back on the purchases. And this is probably due to continued low consumer sentiment. The growth in the year was mainly driven by new customers who typically start out by buying from only one category, and this explains the modest increase. Older cohorts are still buying more categories. Please turn to the next slide, please. As just mentioned, we continue to see an increase in the number of customers shopping across multiple product categories on Boozt.com. Shifting customers to buy from more categories remains one of the most strategically important goals of our department store model and is reflected in our financial performance. In 2024, as we illustrated on the slide, we saw an increase of between 1% and 7% on all groups of customers shopping from 2 to 6 categories on Boozt.com. This amounts to a total of just above 50,000 customers. Looking at total active customers over last 12 months, we are now above 2.7 million on Boozt.com, corresponding to an increase of 2% versus last year. We would have liked to see our customer base increase faster, but growing the base has been challenging given the current market environment. Please turn to the next slide. I would like to provide some remarks on Booztlet.com. When we launched Booztlet back in the days, the thinking was that we needed a channel to clear old inventory and excess stock. Having just an extra tab or category on Boozt.com did not make sense, as clearing stock combined with free shipping and returns is quite a bad combination. Therefore, we launched Booztlet, where we offer amazing deals but with the strings attached that you have to pay for shipping and returns. In 2024, Booztlet delivered on this vision. Going into a new year, it's always difficult for us to predict exactly how much we can grow. We can estimate a growth in online penetration. And we assume that we take market share, but as we are inventory taking, the potential growth is also driven by our risk appetite. The growth is, as a main rule, limited to the growth in our buying budget. We always aim for growth at least at the top end of our growth guidance, well knowing that there's a risk if demand is softer than expected. The reason why we're willing to do that is because we have Booztlet, yes, Booztlet which is able to clear potential overstock while still making a small profit. We can clear without compromising the Boozt.com brand -- and at the same time reducing the risk of a major stock write-down, all this while building the Booztlet brand franchise, so it's quite beautiful actually. We came into the second half of 2024 with stock on the high side at the same time as consumers were still holding back. Therefore, we activated Booztlet early in the autumn/winter season. If consumer sentiment stays muted, we will do the same for spring/summer this year. Our biggest priority is always to keep stock fresh. If we go to next slide and before handing over to Sandra, I would like to spend a couple of minutes talking about how we use technology in our operations. AI and machine learning are becoming a bigger part of how we work, helping us to be more efficient and to make smarter decisions across the business. We already see impact in many areas. Our tech teams use AI to write and refine code. Customer service is rolling out chatbots to handle inquiries faster. And AI-generated product descriptions ensure consistent information in multiple languages across Boozt and Booztlet. In marketing, automation helps us personalize customer interactions. In supply chain, AI is improving inventory planning and logistics. Even in back-office operations like payment and fraud detection, artificial intelligence makes processes faster and more secure. These AI-driven improvements have made us more efficient, strengthened our competitive position and helped reduce costs, bring us closer to our long-term 10% margin goal. Recently, as announced in January, these efficiencies also allowed us to streamline the organization, leading to a 10% workforce reduction or 20% of our white-collar employees. Looking ahead: AI will continue to be at the core of how we work. And we will keep investing in new technology to drive efficiency and create the best possible experience for our customers. So with this, I will hand it over to you, Sandra.

Thank you, Hermann. So if we turn to the next slide, you see that the revenue increased 4% in the quarter, which resulted in just above 6% growth for the full year. We had a small currency headwind during the year. And growth in constant currencies in '24 ended at 7%. Looking at Q4. The development was mixed throughout the quarter with disappointing October; followed by a good performance of a Black week, where customers came back and were much more willing to spend. This likely had an impact in December which turned out weaker than we expected. Weather likely had some impact throughout the quarter, with unseasonably warm weather probably affecting sales of winter clothing. Geographically, growth was mainly driven by continued good development in Sweden, where revenue increased 9% for the quarter. Denmark continued to be muted, likely impacted by the consumer confidence which remains at very low levels. Revenue in Denmark declined 2% in the quarter. So looking at the categories. The newer ones continued to show good progress, while revenue from men's and women's fashion declined in the quarter. The Kids category in general and the toys category especially performed very well in the quarter, as did the Sports category. And even though women have been holding back on buying fashion for themselves, they shopped more in the Home and Beauty category. The gross margin was 37.5% in the quarter and unchanged compared to last year. This was driven by a mix of slightly higher gross margin on Boozt.com, where we've been focusing on profitability; and a lower gross margin on Booztlet, which we're still using to clear inventory with temporarily higher discounts. The adjusted EBIT margin was 9.9%, up from 7.7%. The margin in the quarter was impacted by a repayment of customs in Norway following the positive ruling in November. After the verdict, we have asked for compensation from customs paid during the prolonged court case; and we expect to receive a total compensation of around SEK 100 million. Of this, SEK 40 million is related to '24 and is included in the adjusted EBIT for the quarter. Excluding the repayment, the adjusted EBIT margin in Q4 was 8.6% and 0.9 percentage points up versus last year. This was mainly due to a lower marketing cost ratio as well as the fact that we no longer pay customs in Norway as from mid-November. So if we turn to the next slide, please, looking at our 2 platforms. Revenue in the quarter on Boozt.com declined 2% as the market remained very challenging. We continued to see an increase in active customers, and more than 350,000 customers bought on Boozt.com during the quarter. However, as consumers remain very hesitant to spend, we also see that they on average buy less frequently. Active customers in last 12 months increased by 2%. The average order value also increased 2% and reached SEK 1,011, and that was above SEK 1,000 for the first time. In the Nordics, revenue on Boozt.com declined with 3%, with revenue from both Sweden and Denmark declining in the quarter. Growth outside of the Nordics was 4% and mainly driven by the Baltics. The adjusted EBIT margin for Boozt.com increased almost 4 percentage points to 11.3%. This was, of course, to a large degree driven by the Norwegian customs as mentioned earlier, but also, underlying, we saw good improvement. Excluding repayments, the margin was up 2.5 percentage points to 9.9%. This was driven by a higher gross margin as well as a slightly lower marketing cost ratio. So if we move on to Booztlet. Revenue increased 36%, which was supported by the price initiative that we introduced in Q3. In the quarter, we continued this to clear out older products from prior seasons to keep our inventory fresh. This has been well received by customers, in particular in the Nordics, with Sweden increasing 63% and Denmark increasing 32%. Active customers during '24 increased to more than 1 million, which corresponds to an increase of 26% versus 2023. The average order value was down 5% and, of course, impacted by the lower prices. The adjusted EBIT margin for the quarter was 4.6% compared to 9.2% last year. The decline was mainly due to the temporarily lower prices on the site as well as the limited access to campaign goods. So let's move to the next slide. We see -- here we see the development of the cost ratios in the quarter. The fulfillment cost ratio stayed, flat compared to last year, at 9.5%. The transfer cells at the fulfillment center, now fully operational, clearly helped support efficiency. However, with the cost base set for higher volumes in the quarter, overall productivity dipped slightly. Looking ahead, we do expect a fairly good improvement on margins from these transfer cells. We believe it could translate into a net improvement on the EBIT margin around 20 basis points. The marketing cost ratio for the quarter was 9.8% and slightly down compared to last year. Competition for cost per click is still high, but we're benefiting from a strong base of loyal customers, many of whom are joining our membership program, Club Boozt. These loyal customers are coming directly to us more than before, while new customers are mainly brought in through performance media. Our adjusted admin and other cost ratio improved by 2 percentage points to 6.1% mainly due to the legal ruling in Norway. Additionally, we have not paid customs in Norway since mid-November after securing a simplified VAT registration. For comparison: We paid SEK 10 million in Q4 last year. Looking at the underlying development: Excluding Norwegian customs, the ratio improved slightly, supported by largely unchanged salary expenses. Without adjustments, the admin and other cost ratio improved 5 percentage points. The unadjusted costs includes the full SEK 100 million, which explains most of the improvement. The depreciation cost ratio for the quarter was 2.3% and slightly up compared with last year where it was 2.1%. For the full year, the depreciation cost ratio was 3.3% versus 3.2% in '23. So next slide. We ended the year with net working capital of SEK 752 million, corresponding to 9.1% of revenue. This is to be compared with 4.1% at the end of '23. The increase was mainly due to a higher inventory position at the end of '24. And this was partly due to the sell-out being lower than planned but also that the opposite was the case in the fourth quarter last year. The initiative to activate Booztlet during the second half of '24 was very efficient. As we go into '25, we don't have elevated levels of older stock, which enables us to focus on the upcoming season sales. However, considering the lower sales than expected coming into '24, the overall inventory level is slightly elevated. We will manage this by continuing to use Booztlet in '25 and adjust buying budgets as needed. Cash flow from investing activities was SEK 60 million in the quarter versus SEK 28 million last year. The increase was mainly related to the investment in transfer cells at the fulfillment center. Free cash flow in the quarter was SEK 625 million and down versus last year. This was mainly due to net working capital movements. For the full year, we ended at a positive cash flow of SEK 12 million, which is more or less unchanged versus last year. Our net cash position was SEK 795 million at the end of the quarter, down SEK 245 million compared to last year. Our cash position continues to be impacted by our share buyback program. And in the last 12 months, we have repurchased own shares for SEK 165 million. So this ends the financial overview, so back to you, Hermann.

Thank you, Sandra. And please turn to next slide, yes. Coming out of a quite challenging year with still strong growth and best-in-class profitability reinforces our belief in our long-term vision of becoming the leading Nordic department store. When lower consumer sentiment acts like a drag on consumer spend in fashion, this is where the categories step in. And as mentioned earlier, our newer categories, Kids, sport, Beauty and Home, performed really well. And we are successfully moving customers from buying from only one category to more categories, typically from women's fashion to other categories, but we would like to -- like the pace to be higher. Awareness of our categories is still too low, and we would like to accelerate the growth in awareness of the categories. Therefore, we will make an extraordinary investment in '25 in promoting the categories and building the Boozt brand beyond fashion, basically from being an online fashion destination to a multi-category online department store. We will reinvest a significant part of our savings into a marketing push supporting the newer categories. The return on investment is potentially high, as customers moving from one to more categories, on average spend, exponentially more. In '24, customers buying from one category spent SEK 1,000 on average on Boozt.com, while customers buying from all of our categories spent around SEK 16,000, so by investing in a challenging market where peers probably are holding back, we would position ourselves even stronger when market conditions eventually improve. So with this, let's move on to the next slide and our guidance. Our ambition for '25 is unchanged versus prior year's, as we plan to continue to increase our share of the total market for fashion and lifestyle. This is likely to be supported by an increase in online penetration across our categories. However, in our guidance for the year, we have not factored in any significant improvements to the current challenging market environment. We are not expecting consumer sentiment to increase meaningfully. With this in mind, we expect to grow revenue with 4% to 9%. And should consumer confidence improve across the Nordics, we do see an upside to this. In terms of profitability, we expect to deliver a margin between 5.8% and 6.5%. Using the midpoint, this is an increase of around 0.5 percentage points compared to 2024. And profitability is expected to benefit from economies of scale as well as cost efficiencies across the group. This includes a tailwind of around 0.3 percentage points from net savings related to the recent reduction in staff as well as around 0.2 percentage points from the transfer cells. And the lower end of the range is set to allow for flexibility to respond to adverse market conditions. Lastly, we expect CapEx in the range of SEK 170 million to SEK 200 million, of which around SEK 75 million will be related to the capacity expansion program that we will gradually start to roll out in 2025. As earlier communicated, we plan to spend around SEK 500 million from 2025 to 2027 to increase our output capacity at the warehouse. And before we conclude our presentation, I just would like to hand over to Sandra to have a small comment.

Yes. And as you might have seen, I announced my resignation today. And yes, I will stick around for quite some time, but I just wanted to say that Boozt is fantastic. I really enjoyed these years here and it's been an honor to present the numbers here. And I really enjoyed this part of this job, but it's -- in all honesty, it has been so easy because most of the times we had really great KPIs and really, really great numbers. And that is, of course, due to all the fantastic people we have here in our organization. And if I look at my right now. I think that the man here beside me called Hermann is probably nervous that I'm going to talk a lot about feelings and emotions and made him -- make him very uncomfortable. And normally I would never shy away for such an opportunity. It wouldn't be the first time. I've done that many times, but you told me not to cry. And for once, I will actually listen to what you say, so I will stick to saying thank you. Boozt is fantastic, and so are you.

Thank you, Sandra. So this concludes our presentation, so operator, will you please open up for questions?

[Operator Instructions] The [ next ] question comes from Benjamin Wahlstedt from ABGSC.

A bit of a sad surprise there from Sandra as well. A couple of questions from me. First off, when you first announced your 10% margin target, you also added a win in terms of Norwegian tariffs would likely take you to this target faster than if you wouldn't win. While I understand that 1 percentage point per year improvement is likely not to be linear, the midpoint of your new margin guidance implies an improvement of 90 basis points compared to sort of non-adjusted 2024 figures, i.e., below the 1 percentage point improvement. What are your thoughts on this observation, please?

I think the thoughts are that we are in a dynamic market. And we can have the best intention, but we have to respond to the market conditions, so the plan is still to go towards the 10% margin. But it's in no way linear. So I think that's the best reply I can give. We are, as you can see from what we're doing with regards to staff realignment, investing in increased throughput and productivity in the warehouse. We are doing everything we can to streamline our own operations. And then we try to sell at as much and as a high price as possible in the market, but we cannot change consumer sentiment. And we have to kind of stick to the market or act in the market we're in. So that's kind of my honest and best answer.

Okay, perfect. I would also like to ask you about the campaign goods availability. I presume you could have some insights here going into the spring/summer season already. What is the feeling when speaking to suppliers? What sort of market growth in 2025 are they looking for?

It's a very good question. There is availability of campaign goods. The question is do you want to buy. Because, of course, we are -- have bought in for a good growth. And everyone seems to be quite cautious. I think that the fashion market will probably not grow in general in 2025 unless something dramatically changes. Because the -- all the old kind of rhetoric and all the geopolitics and macro environment is very much to the negative side. So we don't think that campaign goods availability will be a problem. The question is how much do you want to buy.

Perfect. The...

If I may add also, Benjamin, is -- so -- is that -- this also. I will say that it's not going to be the fashion categories that are going to drive our growth. It will be the categories Kids, Sports, Beauty and Home because consumers are holding back on fashion, but they still buy for the kids, for the home; do the sports; et cetera, et cetera.

Perfect. And on that note then: You talk about some extraordinary investment in, I assume, marketing to expand your product scope in the eyes of the consumers. Is it possible to add a number to that, please, on sort of incremental marketing spend...

Yes, it is, but I don't want to do that because then we would basically be handing too much information to our colleagues in the business. We know how much we want to spend and how we want to spend it, but how much it is and where, we keep for ourselves.

Wow, Hermann. You actually stick to not saying it. Good.

All right, Sandra, I will call you later, and you can tell me.

[indiscernible].

Moving ahead, one final one for me.

Yes.

Finally, could you give us an update on strategy in Norway now that you've been given the go-ahead by the tax authority?

Yes. We will continue to do as we've done in Norway. The big difference is that we are now profitable in Norway. And we have some room to increase the marketing if we want to, but Norway is now kind of coming into a position where it should be with regards to growth and profitability. And again I have to restrain myself not to disclose too much information about what our plans are in Norway.

The next question comes from Daniel Schmidt from Danske Bank.

Hermann and Sandra, a couple of questions from me then on the topic of other categories outside fashion. And Hermann, you mentioned that you think that that's going to be the driving force for your top line in '25. It's been the case lately as well. What is that sort of theoretically doing to the gross margin and EBIT margin for the group, you think?

It's the gross margin is more or less the same, so that's not going to impact that much. On EBIT margin, theoretically it should improve because these are categories with lower return rates, so it's also -- this is also why we are pushing so much forward to kind of getting the categories to a much higher share, because this is what makes the profitability because -- so you have the women's category with returns of somewhere between 40% and 50%. So even though it's extremely important for us to have women to buy their fashion on Boozt -- because they also buy in the other categories, but women's fashion share as a lower part of the business is actually not that bad.

And if I may add. The mix effect is what makes our orders really profitable, so it's really good for profitability [ investments ].

Yes, okay, good. Just coming back a little bit to the savings for '25 as well. And you mentioned the transfer cell implementation should give you 0.2 on the margin for '25. I do recall that you did have implementation costs last year, in Q2 and Q3, corresponding to 20 to 30 basis points. That would basically, having that in mind, and what you guide for in '25, mean that you won't have any sort of real meaningful impact on the underlying efficiency of the fulfillment, the line. Do you catch my drift? Or am I missing anything here?

No, we -- you're not missing anything. And yes, as you are kind of indicating, that -- we are on the cautious side on the transfer cells. And it's actually quite a big thing and we are seeing the effects, but we kind of want to see a full year [indiscernible] operations. But at least during the Black Friday week's, it was 100% consolidation, so basically everything was -- the transfer cell actually consolidated everything. So it's quite promising, but we need a full year to be fully confident in how much it's going to save us. So it's kind of cautious.

But we, I assume that you can sort of make the calculations on manual labor that you're saving. Has anything sort of changed when it comes to the outcome of the implementation that's making you a bit more cautious on the efficiency of these transfer cells?

No, not really. So it's just a case that we are expecting the unexpected, so -- and trying to be on the safe side.

Yes. Because it basically only reverses the implementation costs and leaves you with some slight improvement of efficiency, but again that's very cautiously said then.

Yes, but the one-off costs was one-off costs. This saving is a kind of ongoing saving going forward, right? So I think that's a difference...

Sure, but you're comparing to '24 and then you had extra costs of SEK 10 million. And now you're basically saying that you should have a saving of SEK 16 million or SEK 17 million, so if you didn't have those SEK 10 million, the saving would be SEK 7 million.

Yes. That's on the low side.

Okay, okay, fine. And then coming back to the outlook for '25. And you are saying that you're going to reinvest a lot when it comes to making other categories -- the awareness sort of -- lift the awareness of other categories in your core markets. And with that in mind and given what sort of you can do in Norway maybe now that you're more profitable there, which I hope is opening a door for you which has not been shut, but you haven't been sort of investing in Norway that much, isn't sort of the top line outlook quite cautious given the performance that you had last year? You grew by 6%, and 7% in local currency. And now you're basically saying the same, but you'll invest a lot more in marketing.

The guidance is our best estimate for 2025 and it's based on -- yes, on what we're seeing now. Hopefully, consumers -- the sentiment increases, but I think that kind of we -- last year, we were disappointed by the growth. And we had hoped for more. And so we are going quite cautiously into 2025, so I think still kind of the best answer is that the guidance is our best estimate.

But what I'm getting to a little bit: Is the guidance also affected by the fact that you came out disappointed in the latter half of '24 compared to what you thought at the start of '24 and sort of once bitten, twice shy? If you see what I'm saying.

I know the song at least, so yes, yes...

But I assume that makes you automatically a bit cautious given that you were sort of too optimistic last year. Is that a function of how you sort of -- how you see your guidance into '25 rather safe than sorry?

We always [ buy ] for more growth than we guide, so we're also kind of on the optimistic side, but we're also kind of realistic and, as you could say, that we had expected last year that consumers were more happy. And especially, fashion has been much softer than we expected, so I think that kind of -- and yes, Sweden is back. And you can see that the Swedish consumers are probably the most optimistic ones in the Nordic at the moment, but if you would live like me in Denmark, where it's like talk about 5% extra tax, war tax and stashing up because of war, it's like -- you tend to save up instead of spending on fashion, so that's why we're saying that, unless the rhetoric changes in Denmark at least, the Danish consumers will be holding back.

Yes. And then just a last question, on sort of savings from AI. Are you still sort of holding onto that you will be getting rid of 100 or 110 people in the first half of this year, or has that changed?

No. And we have actually executed on that announcement, so that is more or less completed, so -- and the number is 120 people that, sadly, have had to leave us. So we have carried that through, so that's -- yes, that's done.

You could have argued that, that would have given you more than sort of SEK 25 million, SEK 30 million in a saving, but I assume that sort of replacing that work that has been conducted by those people is also costing you a bit. Is that the right assumption?

That's correct. Also some of the costs -- or some of the staff that we have let go have also previously been capitalized in the balance sheet, so that's why [ you would consider that ] on the P&L.

Okay, okay, cool. And I just want to lastly say that -- very regretful that you're leaving, Sandra. I think it's been a great collaboration. And I wish you the best of luck. I'm -- do -- I am curious. What are you going to do?

I'm not going to comment on that. Today, it's about Boozt, but thank you for your nice comments. I really appreciate it. It's been great knowing you and all the others. And I'm sure we'll meet again.

Okay, okay. That was good.

The next question comes from Niklas Ekman from Carnegie.

Yes, picking up on some of the questions already asked here. Can you say anything about current trading? And I'm thinking here that the guidance here is a bit on the cautious side. You talk about it's still a challenging market. At the same time, last year, you entered the year with very low inventories. Now you're entering the year with high inventory levels. How has that impacted kind of the start of '25?

Yes. You know, Niklas, we don't really want to comment on current trading. Having said that, if -- consumer sentiment is still very low and so the clouds are still dark, so we are very much on the more kind of pessimistic side. And I think, believe that the current trading is reflected in our guidance.

Okay, fair enough. And also coming back on campaign goods: You talked, you elaborated a bit here on the availability, but I guess you should know already now whether that has changed going into the spring. Or is that something you won't really find out until later? I'm just trying to see if there has been any change because I think you said here in Q4 there was still a low availability, but how is that changing, do you think, going into the spring collections?

Yes, for the spring collection, we actually don't know because it hasn't really started. We saw during December that suddenly campaign good availability increased quite a lot, but as we ourselves have enough of stock -- so we held back on buying campaign goods, and -- but I will expect that there will be availability of campaign stocks during the spring this year, but then again we -- but depending on how things develop, we will look at it. And again, we are seeing this fashion that is soft. And it's typically fashion where you have the campaign goods availability. And if women are still holding back on buying the fashion items, there's no reason to be buying campaign goods. Because they won't buy it just because it's a bit cheaper.

Okay, okay, fair enough. I think all of the other questions I had have been addressed, so I'll just add here to comments about Sandra. Well, you will be very missed. So thank you so much for these years and the good collaboration. And best of luck.

Thank you. Thank you, Niklas.

There are no more questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.

Yes. Okay, thank you for some good questions. And I guess I will see you guys around in the coming months. I at least intend to stick around for some time and, of course, sad that Sandra is leaving, but life moves on. And all good things eventually come to an end. So thank you, guys. And this concludes the call or our Q4 Webcast. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.