Brightcom Group Limited (532368) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It is a pleasure to speak to you all on the conference call. In Q3 of financial year 2019 and '20, the consolidated revenue for the quarter 3 was INR 859.52 crores, registering a growth of 1.14% on year-on-year and an increase of 36.5% on quarter-on-quarter. When we come to EBITDA for the quarter 3 of financial year '19/'20 was INR 240.6 crore, an increase of 23.25% on quarter-on-quarter and an increase of 4.9% on year-on-year. Profit after tax for the quarter 3 of financial year '19/'20 was INR 143.84 crores, an increase of 4% on year-on-year and an increase of 36.38% on quarter-on-quarter. The revenue from Digital Marketing segment for the quarter 3 of financial year '19/'20 was INR 749.34 crores, listing a growth of 45.09% on year-on-year (sic) [ quarter-on-quarter ] and an increase of 1.13% on year-on-year. Revenue from Software Development segment for the quarter 3 of financial year '19/'20 was INR 110.17 crores. Now we have received some questions through mail regarding the accounting receivables. I will give the numbers. On a consolidated basis, the total receivables are stable at 120 days on a year-over-year basis. The total receivables are -- increased from INR 890 crores to INR 925 crores because in quarter 3, the revenue is increased by [ 34% ]. So in the last month -- since in the quarter, revenues increased, pricing was also slightly increased. The receivables in digital segment has been decreased compared to the March from 30 days to [ 11 days ]. However, the total receivables of INR 925 crores, the digital receivables are INR 700 crores and INR 224 crores is the software receivables. The receivables from software segment is slightly reduced because the -- all receivables are collected. Now the receivables are realizing, and going forward, we will have better collections from the software and digital also. With this, I hand over the floor to Mr. Suresh Kumar Reddy, our Chairman and Managing Director.

Thank you, Y. S. R. Thank you all for calling in on a Saturday, and appreciate your patience for waiting so long. We were -- I was planning to travel actually to Korea, and that travel got canceled because of the coronavirus and such, so we decided not to go as things were not very conducive in Korea. And hence -- anyway, the date was fixed, so we decided to go on with 22nd. So that being said, thanks again for being on the call. There have been requests. We've got a lot of e-mails requesting for a longer session this quarter. I think there have been a lot of outstanding questions that are unanswered. We have been trying to update the market exchanges as much as we can. We do get direct calls sometimes from some of the investors asking for information. And we would like to be as fair as possible and try to put as much information as possible to the exchanges so that everybody is aware. So that's the reasoning behind the 2-hour call this time. So we -- good news is we'll have -- we have a lot of time. We can go through it in a very relaxed fashion and basically address any outstanding questions. I do have one point to make that to the extent possible, we will be able to answer all the questions. There are a few questions we may decide not to answer because of competitive reasons and various reasons that are hard to discuss. So I urge you to understand that because I'm sure every company has -- because if you go and completely break it down, then we are revealing everything. If a competitor would like to dial in and try to understand our business, it's a little -- it's on the edge. So these are the reasons sometimes we are unable to give details beyond a point. So that's the essence of it. So that being said, let me just come straight to the update, and then we'll go to the Q&A. I'm looking forward to talking to all of you and answering your questions today. First and foremost, we've had a fantastic quarter. Like Y. S. R. said, we almost kissed INR 860 crores, INR 750 crores of which came from digital, software is about INR 110 crores. So it's -- we had a good quarter, and we've had no -- business has been growing year-on-year. The reason there has been a little up and down, has been because the industry itself has been going through some turmoil. And then we're also restricted because of our cash flow, and I've talked about that. But that being said, we are efficient. The teams have been good with the resources we have. We have maintained, in fact, brought in some growth. So that is the high level on the financials. So I think we are on track to do well this year, and I wouldn't be talking about the expected numbers, but I'm very positive that things are going very well. We do have a few in the -- a few initiatives in the pipeline, which we are working on. I will try and update you as much as I can. We did touch upon it in the last call, so I'll try to expand on it this time. So we'll see how that goes this quarter and subsequent quarters, but things are looking very positive. The second thing, coming to the business update itself. We have a product called Compass. Compass has been the central core for our digital advertising, fundamentally, from going from one media type to another media type and consolidating everything at the effective CPM level. I'm not trying to push some jargon here, but effective CPM is cost per ad. And what is it -- what is the cheapest for the advertiser? What is the best for the publisher? So then it becomes very important in our business, and so we were the earliest to come up with this concept. And we go between video to search to banner to mobile to social media. And the advertiser gets a chance to see, "Oh, okay. This is doing better than the other side or should we push more money into social media for this product?" So each product behaves differently, and to kind of optimize, this product has been extremely useful. And we just launched 2.0, the second version of it. We have taken into account that now the functionality of the product has gone beyond just optimizing. We have actually started to look at with a module called Protector. So then one of the big benefits of digital advertising has been there is a lot of, what you call, fraud traffic, which is, they call it typically as bot traffic because not real people visiting, but there are robots visiting. So to detect that, we introduced an addition to Compass called Protector. It is a safety tool and widely received by our advertisers, and so they allowed these additional fees. And from the publisher side, from the supplier side or the publisher side, we have a new product called Adaptor, which manages the inventory very well, which, again, use best money back for the media they have. So these 2 enhanced Compass 2.0 to the next level. So we're very pleased with it. And interestingly, I mean it's too early, but immediately, we were -- I don't know if it is related, but we were put on the top 72, best 72 SSPs of 2020 by e.Digital alongside AppNexus or AOL or Salesforce or Trade Desk. So it's a nice validation of what we thought works and looks like the market is liking. Now this has to convert back into additional revenue for the company. We will wait and watch on that. So that's broadly the business, a tech update. In terms of other things, our AI business, we've had a little slowdown in the previous quarter, but I think now it's gradually coming back up. We're still testing that area. We have another client we added this quarter, again, coming from Israel, primarily on the agri side. And we are hoping that this will start to pick up coming April. But we're already starting to do some work for them, which is good. And beyond that, we also have a new area that we have been exploring, which I talked to you last time about my President, Mr. Pisipati, was working on. Again, that was connected to hardware and agri and such. We were at the brink of bringing in a big order. Unfortunately, there was delays because of, again, China connection on that. But we are in very advanced stage, and as soon as we have something that we will announce, I know there was a question on that. So I just wanted to address that. And once we have that all ready, I'll try to get Mr. Pisipati online to explain to all of us on what is this new product and how does it actually bring additional revenues, primarily from the India perspective. So I'll leave it at that. And then once we are ready, we will talk more on it. My sense, given the uncertainty in China and rest of the world and then because it's hardware connected, we may take another quarter to have much more clarity. So hopefully, in the next call, we will try to have more clarity on this project and the viability and actual orders going through it. So that's on the other project that I mentioned about. Now these are broadly the update, of course, then the team has been very active. We've been attending conferences. The Programmatic I/O Conference in New York was attended, MWC Barcelona, a bunch of conferences the team has been going to, primarily the teams from Israel. And they've been trying to round up more publishers and more advertisers and agencies and partners in the scheme of things. So it's very important for us to continuously stay in touch and help our company in doing more. So this is part and parcel of what the team has been doing. Okay. That being said, now coming to the corporate update. This, I think, a lot of us have been -- especially the shareholders and investors have been anxiously waiting for a lot of things to come out of this. We've been getting a lot of calls. A lot of clarity needed here. We will try and clarify as much as we can today. Whatever is left, you'll have to bear with us, and maybe in coming quarters, we start clarifying more. So first and foremost, there was a news item as well as the press release from us regarding consolidation of about 12 subsidiaries under a U.S. entity, which will be 100% owned by the parent company, which is us. So that idea is, again, in line with what we are trying to do to improve financing of our receivables. Finally, that is objective. And there are other benefits that will come in future, but I'm not going to talk about it at this point. But most important right now is to get this 12 entities under one U.S. subsidiary, which will give access to various opportunities that are there in the U.S. with respect to financing, what our working capital requires and financing any additional new acquisitions we want to do. Whatever we want to do as a business, we would get a lot more access to capital from an area that understands our business as well. And also we are trying to bring in a reputed audit firm to drive that. I did mention that. I know some of you wanted to know the name. I do have the name. It's not like I don't have the name. I'm keeping it away because there have been a few retailers who are over anxious sometimes, start calling the auditor and just bothering them. So I think let me just get these things together. I urge you to be patient with me. I guarantee you it's a very, very good, large firm. It is not some no-name firm. So you should be fine. Is it -- some people have asked me is it part of big 4. It is not, but it is a top firm, definitely something I'm sure all of you would have heard of. So I would leave it at that. Next, there has been -- so that is the starting point, and that leads us into the line of credit that we've been talking about. Work is in progress. It's all connected to this. So I can tell you, these are all in tandem, they're working. We are moving various things. You might have started to see a few major momentum moving points in the last few weeks, but this is just the beginning. It's all I can say right now. So this is one of them. Next one is with respect to the banks. Canara Bank, there have been questions about, "Oh, how come the loan closure is not yet uploaded on to MCA?" The Canara Bank, we have already paid, right. As I [ remember ] we mentioned, it was paid. We got the no objection certificates from them, and it is already reflected in the books. So there is some money, which was a difference, which has actually been added to this quarter. So all that is already taken into account. Doing it on MCA is something that we are following up with Canara Bank. For whatever reason, it's nothing to do with us. While I know it is our responsibility to make sure it is removed because it helps us remove a charge on the company. It has not happened for no fault of ours, but we do take the responsibility to try to get that cleared. We will inform you as soon as the charge is removed. So there's nothing to worry about. It's just an action item that needs to be done. It will be done. So that is one point regarding the Canara Bank. SBI is already done, so that is done and dusted. Then the third one is with Axis Bank. Again, there's a lot of things going on with Axis Bank, primarily because we had OTS with them. We are trying -- OTS as in onetime settlement agreement with them. There have been discussions on trying to enhance that amount. And so we've been talking to them, and they have been trying to come after us in various ways to get to agree to their numbers. And in fact, there was one such activity that somebody brought up as well where they tried to put properties, underlying collateral for an auction, and then we immediately got a stay out of it because it was unwarranted. And the stay has been approved, and hence, we did not report because it was a frivolous attempt. So there's nothing there. So hence, it has been -- there's an option call, which has been stayed by the High Court as well as the Dehati Court. And then they have -- the money has been paid after that. So right now, as per the OTS that was originally sanctioned, about INR 8 crores -- INR 8.5 crores to INR 9 crores is left. And we are trying to make out a way where it will all be agreed upon, and we try to close it between what their demand is and what we would like to pay. I don't want to talk more than that because, again, this is something that is work in progress. I don't want to get into a situation with the bank. So kindly understand that due to the extent of revelation I can do about this transaction that is going on. So that's about the Axis part. Now coming to the next one. Yes, there have been questions about, yes, you should be announcing 30% of the EPS as dividend and such. I'm not in a position to do that yet. We will do that maybe going forward. I don't know what percentage, but we already announced a dividend distribution plan. I don't think it's a bad idea, but right now since we are trying to juggle multiple balls in the air, we're trying to hold everything up in the air. We want to close this, breathe easy and then start looking at how to take this from A to B. So that is the approach that the management team and the Board has decided to take, and I'm following that. We, as a management team, are following that. So that's the next one. What else is there? I'm trying to look at the questions I have in front of me. Coming to, okay, NOC. I talked about that. Yes. Yes. The names of the audit firm, I think that's also covered. Yes. Who will finance the receivables, which, again, we have been working with a very large bank in the U.S. And we are very, very close to getting that, but it is all connected to this consolidating everything under the U.S. entity. So that will happen, and once that happens, this should happen back to back. So I'm pretty positive that we are in the right space there. Then let me see one more thing. With respect to -- yes, what is the plan? Yes. Coming to the announcement that we just made yesterday, it's about the Daum settlement agreement. As I had mentioned in my -- one of the updates, we have sent a draft, which is our side of the view as to what it should. Because the amount for which the settlement should happen on the LYCOS acquisition with the seller, Daum, is already frozen. And then how it should be paid as opposed -- in terms of what is the first installment and second installment, that is also agreed upon. Now the legal nuances of what -- how it should be done, should we sign or should we pay later, all those details have been captured in the settlement agreement. We sent it to them. They took a bit, and then they got back to us. So we have reviewed their settlement agreement. There are a couple of things that need to be negotiated, I think broadly, the Board has approved. And then those few things, they have left it to me to go out there and sort that out and close that. So it's looking extremely positive. We are confident that this should happen. No hiccups I see with respect to settling with the -- on the LYCOS acquisition. It's about time. It's taken a long, long time. We closed this deal in 2010, and it's almost 10 years. I think everybody is tired. We need to get past this. I think all of us are approaching that with the same mindset and trying to do the best for each of our sides. So what is the plan with LYCOS once this is done? Why are we doing it? There are a bunch of questions around that. The most important is we took a call in 2010 to make this acquisition of LYCOS, and there has been a definitive agreement that we signed. So whether we keep LYCOS or not, we have to fulfill our part of the bargain to get this closed. And otherwise, it's an outstanding open agreement, which is unresolved, and so that can create problems for the company. Hence, we are trying to close it. Now once -- of course, the brand LYCOS is helpful, has been helpful. It has helped us get a lot of new accounts. All that is a given. And then it has helped us come to a place where even if we did a name change, we're Brightcom now, things have been continuing the way as it is. Once this is all done and dusted, we do have a lot of assets within Lycos, but we can leverage and enhance the business further. And we will put a plan together and what is the -- now we do have a broad idea, but we don't want to start talking about it until this whole settlement agreement is signed by both parties, and we are done with it. And then we start the creative juices flowing to see what can be done with this brand, and how we can utilize it best for the benefit of the overall business and bring value to us. So that's broadly the idea there. Next question regarding -- yes, there have been some questions about numbers. I will broadly touch upon it. There are -- I think they're asking for a lot of details. Just a minute, I will open the sheet up. Let me kind of go through it. Yes. So I think there are 4 balance sheet items from September 30 consolidated balance sheet. One is regarding current assets. So there is a number of INR 755 crore and I think, INR 765.92 crore. And the question is, "Okay, what is the breakup?" This is basically a sum of advances given for media purchased by our subsidiaries. I'm not in a position to break it down and give it to you because I'll be opening after details of our business. So to that extent, I can -- and then there are also advances paid to other vendors, subsidiaries, all that gets clubbed under this one item. This has been looked at by the auditors, and it will also be looked at by the global auditors who will come on board. So that is one. The second one, I just want to explain what these items are. And then if you -- please understand that we'll not be able to give you the list. The second one is regarding -- there's a borrowing of INR 36 crores, and this is basically how much the book reflect with respect to Axis Bank and what is the one-time settlement. I'm saying it's about INR 8.5 crores, but the 1/3 is done. The difference will actually reflect back into the next balance sheet that comes through. And then there is a current liability of about INR 214-odd crores. I think part of it is the liability towards Daum. We have accounted for, I think, about close to INR 110 crores towards that. I can tell you that it's going to be -- we'll be surprised there as well. And then there is other vendor payments, taxes and other operating expenses but all the subsidiaries get clubbed under this liability. Noncurrent assets are, again, things that are related to new projects that we bid on, deposits that we have to pay, all those sum up performance guaranteed deposits. That's all sum of all those that's coming. They're very operational. So kindly understand that these are numbers that have been -- that are required for the operations to continue and reduce the revenues that we are able to get. So these are some of the questions that -- the best I can answer at this point. Next question is regarding the analyst meet. Yes, it's a great question because we have been contemplating on when is the right time to go in for an analyst meet. We have -- so I think we are getting there. I will announce the date in the next month -- next week or so come up with a date, then we have to invite all the analysts. But one big challenge is the share price is still below [ 1. ] So it may not get a lot of results. Till the price goes to maybe 5, 6x, that's when the analyst meets start to get interested because in that point, from what I have understood, it takes a lot more. But we will do it, we will actually start meeting analysts, whether through an analyst meet or a [indiscernible]. So that is that part. Then Oak shares. Yes, there's been a question about shares owned by one of the private equity firms who had invested in the company in 2010. I know their fund is closing, and what do we do? So we have been working very closely with them. We have identified a buyer for that, so we should be able to help close that. So I'm making sure that those shares don't come into the market. This is another big effort that has been -- that we have been working on from the corporate side. Beyond this, let me see if I have covered most of the questions, then I think I can open up beyond this. I believe I've gone through the list, so let's open up for questions and then go through the routine.

[Operator Instructions] We have first question from [ Patrick Matla ], an individual investor.

Suresh, and everyone at Brightcom, my question today is towards -- what [ is the ] sensitive time line now you have on definitive agreement closure on Daum? That's one. And what were your time lines for the NOC process to be completed and made effective?

Okay. Two questions. Okay. Good. Two questions. For Daum, see, the definitive agreement, now it's -- we did the initial letter of intent. All that is true. But this is the definitive agreement that we're negotiating, the settlement agreement. I believe it is very hard to predict, but I can tell you it is maybe 95% done. So 5% is left. It depends upon how tough Daum wants to be on their terms and how much we are willing to yield and how tough we can be. So this is something that we have to get the lawyers figure out. I -- very hard for me to commit a time line right now, but I can tell you that 95% of the job is done. So I mean really -- if you really push me hard for a time line, I'll give you some number, but then -- there's no point. It's better to deliver it and close it. But I see all these months of what we have been through, we never came to this point. I think this is a significant point. We did get a return back from them, and now it's time to sit across and close. So that's where it stands. And then the second one regarding the line of credit. This has been a very long process. We've been through it primarily because of subsidiaries set around the world, and they had to do their diligence. Interestingly, the company that we are working with did most of the work ahead of time. So there have been a lot of work. They wanted a lot of detail. It's almost a year's work to come to where we are today. Now they have given us a few things that we have to complete. And once we complete those things, we are in a position to grow the top line. That's where we stand. So one of the things we're trying to do is put all these subsidiaries under a U.S. umbrella, so that they have a view of where the money is coming from, where it is going, and they can see through the accounts that they can monitor and match. So the time taken to do a global audit is the time, I think, that will be required to get their loss in place. Maybe a couple of weeks after that. Broadly speaking, to do an audit of this nature, we have given a lot of information, and now we have kind of brought them on board. It's time to complete their requirements and close it off. So my sense, typically, it takes about 2 to 3 months to do an audit. We are trying to see if it is faster because we are very keen on getting this through; and now move forward, onward and forward. So to be conservative, maybe 3 months -- 3, 3.5 months, but I'm hoping it will be sooner. This is -- these are the best answers I can give you sir, given the circumstances.

Sure. I will just take a minute with your permission. So we can consider 4 to 5 months for the LOC, then I'm being a little bit more conservative than you so...

No, hopefully not. I just want to [ be more optimistic. ] [indiscernible]

Okay. Yes. A related question was that whatever are the payment terms of Daum, is there a dependency of payment on the LOC, that is one, and getting money to the LOC? Or do we have enough liquidity in our hands, in some manner? I'm not asking you to disclose what manner to -- and I have the questions for installment payment. Assuming that things move towards closure in, say, the next 1 month or 2 months' time with Daum, do we have the necessary liquidity in hand to defect our definitive agreement with the first installment payment?

Yes. This is -- again, like I said, this is one of those questions I'd rather not answer unfortunately, because it just -- it's not the right thing to do in case somebody passes information back to the -- so I would stay out of the question. But we signed a definitive agreement. You can take it for granted that we'll not sign unless we know we can pay.

Yes. And I was assuming even they will not sign unless we have...

Initial approval. Exactly. They are -- exactly. So we will have to take -- I'll let you make your assumptions on that.

We have next question from [ Pranil ], an individual investor.

Suresh, [ Manish ] here -- [indiscernible] here. So Suresh, you've been a part of this team for the last 5 years. In fact, I spoke to you last time, and you said that we are at an inflection point and just jump around. With 3 months gone, we are changing the team, unfortunately. I understand the company is taking a lot of initiatives, but the share price is not reflective. But there is where my concern is. Are we really taking the right steps to ensure that we have right share price? Because what I really want to understand about the market, I see only 2 ways companies get a fair valuation. One is either they grow 20% or more, or they pay as a -- a good dividend. But we are not sitting in both of these. So neither we are growing 20% nor we are paying a really good dividends. So in the last 5 years, we are always hopeful. There was a dividend policy, but I don't know. I think it's a closure because no clarity in terms of when the dividend will come. And I don't see any change because you were same optimistic now that you were 4 years back, 5 years back on your dividends. So I doubt 2 things happen. It needs to happen if we really want to have a good, respectable share gains. Otherwise, I think the market is not really giving the valuation just on the pursuit of numbers. So what is that you are really looking -- how do you change this [ stock value ] change? Either you grow 20% or you pay dividend.

Yes. Okay. Good. Yes. This is a very legit point that I think you brought up last time as well. And I do remember you, and then I said: "No, just hang in there. It's an inflection point." So in my mind, definitely, a lot of things have changed in the last 3 months. Yes, some -- the market has seen the best of our ability. We have been informing much more actively than we ever have been in the last 3, 4 years, exactly where we stand, what is going on, every little thing that we can inform, we have been informing, okay? So that is one. Now your question is do you have a growth rate of 20%. The second one was, I think, 5%, I believe, speak to the dividend. So that is true when you are -- when the price discovery is in line with the value of the business. We believe we are massively undervalued. So management's focus is to see why we are undervalued, right? What are the reasons for us to be undervalued? So we went through this churn, this thought process, almost, I would say, almost a year now. Been working on various pieces. So one thing we identified is, yes, improve cash flow. So you said, how do we improve the cash flow, given that the nature of the industry that we are in, there's a huge working capital issue that exists in the industry which is not letting us do that. So how do we handle it? If it is all in one country. It's very simple, go to a bank and get a line of credit and you're through Unfortunately, we are spread between so many different countries, so we decided how do we create a one simple structure. And so we started working with international banks who understand our business, who have heard of our name, who can crosscheck with competitors directly with a call away. And we have made significant progress on that. That's number one. So that -- so LOC was one piece, and we have made good progress. And I think things are happening now, which is what I kind of talked about last time. Second one was, yes, there is this ambiguity about what will happen with respect to the Daum court case. I think we made a lot of progress on that. We reached the final stage. We are trying to get that through. And that is the second point that we are trying to do. Third point, which we believe -- which is holding the share price back, are having no uncertainty amongst the shareholders, is this bank loans. So we sat down and paid down. You can see that we have paid off 2 banks already. We are trying to get the last bank sorted out. It's not much. It's just us trying to get this all clear and simple. We don't want to have any bank loans in India, have them sorted out. So that is another thing, which you keep things clean and simple. So these are 3 major initiatives. Beyond that, business itself, we have been working on a few areas. We've been working on AI. We've been working on machine learning. We've been -- the teams. We have great leadership that have been working on various areas, which, irrespective of what the corporate is trying to attack, they have been working on trying to grow. Now imagine once these have sorted out and we're able to put the focus back, everybody is back on growth focus. This will be something to recon with, which is what I was telling you last time. And yes, we have made progress, maybe not to your satisfaction. I do understand. I'm not going to argue with you on that. The third thing is, of course, one of the big challenges we've had is private equity shareholders who had a big chunk started to dump the shares, which is the reason why the share price dropped. If you go back and see when we merged the 2 companies with LGS, our price -- the listing price was INR 99. Market cap was, I think, [ INR 4,700 ] crores at that time. Then after that [ null ], a lot of things happened, one of the fee holders, who held 11%, started to sell that, and then we had challenges with the court case. We had challenge with the write-offs, a lot of things that the company had to go through. And we feel that we are through with all those things. And we see that today, we are at a point where this is past. All the private equity firms, we had about 4 or 5 of them. They're all gone except this last one, which is I hope I did mention to you in my update. We are trying to make sure they don't come into the market and start creating problems. We just want to give them a simple exit. And they're also been working very closely with us. They've been very friendly. So that is another thing that we have done. So it's like -- we just see the leaves outside, and then there's a carrot growing below. I've seen one of these visual, where work has been done underground, and I think it's still not -- you're beginning to see new offshoots at this point. We do hope that soon, you'll start to understand the depth of work that has gone and start seeing the results [indiscernible]. I hope I answered your question. I'm happy to clarify if you have more.

And no, I understand the point of view. I understand the work is going on, and I personally see the progress. But I just hope that we have the right [ intentions ] that by doing these things, we get a fair price because...

My honest answer. I'm confident on this one. I feel very confident with the answer.

Yes. My only intention -- my only intention for this year is, yes, here is that I have seen some companies which are cleaning up. They are clean. There are no issues like we have in our company. But if they are not growing, if they are paying dividend, they won't get share value. So I still like to reconsider this cash back. Because today, nothing comes free, either you have to show growth or you have to give dividend. Otherwise, nobody wants to invest.

I know what you're saying because there is this worry that do you really have money. If you're not giving dividend, then you don't have money. So this kind of thought process exists in our markets, and so we -- I do understand that as well. But first things first, we need to fix the problems, and I think clean out -- cut off any bad parts so that we are in a clean place and everything will happen with time. I do understand patience is a big thing that I'm requesting the shareholders to have. But I feel that things are moving in the right direction. I'm confident that most, the steps we have taken will absolutely reflect back into the value of the business. There's no 2 thoughts to that. I'm 100% sure.

Okay. I wish you all the best. And I also expect you come up with some dividend clarity going forward once you have this settled in the second half.

Yes, we will do that. Thank you.

We have next question from [ Shankar Rah ], an individual investor.

Actually, I have one point, sir. Recently, I heard from statements or through a conference call that [ Assam ] Limited Company there.

Correct.

We are dealing there in India, no steel competitor is with us. And we are from India, and we are totally concentrating on foreign market. So why is that not concentrating on Indian markets? All foreign marketing are coming to India, and we are going from India to foreign market concentrating. And actually, there is that -- there are no competitor with us.

Okay, okay.

Yes. And another thing sir. There will be some restructuring plan in this.

Correct.

Yes. Can I...

I talked about it. I'll explain it again. No problem. I did explain to you somewhere along because there's so many things you could have missed. I'll try and explain that again. No problem. Okay. Coming to -- can I answer now?

Yes, you can answer it. Go ahead.

Yes. Okay. So with respect to [ Assam ] claiming that there's no peer in India to them, I cannot stop them from saying what they have to. They have to say what they have to. That is fine. And Brightcom is a global player, has remained a global player. One of our advantages is we're able to enter into new markets that others have not been able to enter. And our core, one of the big parts of our management team sits out of the way. They are the ones who are driving the business, specifically on the advertising side. So we don't want to take anything away. They have tried to enter the Indian markets in the past. If you go back and look about, I think, 4 years or so we have -- we actually -- we are the exclusive agent for all Microsoft property, all the Microsoft property. We are trying to run their advertising across India. And this, we did it for a year. However, after a year, we decided to pull out because it was not profitable to us. So it's more like -- it's all -- it's driven by business. It is not driven by, okay, I need to capture this [ fee ]. They're more like where is the business coming, what business is profitable to us, where is it that our brand helps, where is it that our brand actually is able to penetrate. These are the reasons what has been driving the business. We agree that we have been looking at Indian market for a bit. Indian market has grown a lot in the last, I would say, 10 years compared to what it was before. And we have not penetrated it because the team that has been running it has been an outside team, Israeli team and South American team that has been driving it. We have not homegrown an Indian team to run the Indian part. We do have a few people who work for us in India. We do operate in Indian market, but we're definitely not as big as what we are in other countries. So your point is well taken. We should start looking. In fact, we did think about it. But again, from the perspective, management focus, I -- what we have done, the way I have approached, I explained so maybe you'll get a sense. The way across business is, there are multiple areas that the higher management team can work upon. One thing is, of course, bringing -- at the end of the day, we are a listed company. We have to see what will bring value and what would do -- what are the things we need to do that will help the business realize its real value. So we kind of listed that, and we are going through that priority list without hampering the entire global business. The global business is being run by the current leaders who are running out of various parts of the world. And we are not hampering, we are not disturbing them. In spite of all the challenges the corporation has from the India head office, we did not disturb them. And hence, today, we are in a position to leverage all the growth that is happening outside. If you go back and see when we are in business for 20 years, from 1998 we have been doing this. And so there is an operational role. There is a profit role. There is various roles that myself and our management team have taken to kind of drive various parts of it. We feel right now, the biggest thing that needs to be addressed is value realization of the business. If you're not adding more business, you do have to add more business.

Yes. I understand you, sir. But we -- like we are not participating in the Indian market, it is an opportunity to competitor?

No, see. For me, [ Assam ] it is not an competitor, to be honest. [ Assam ] is another company that is listed in an Indian market. That is fine. I agree with that. But [ Assam ] -- I'm competing with the AOLs of the world, I'm competing with the Trade Desks of the world. We have always competed with the global players. I'm not trying to go back and become a local player for no reason. We are staying to play the global play. India is just another market. That's all for us. That's all it is.

We have next question from [ Ravi ], an individual investor.

Mr. Suresh, first of all, I would like to tell you that my questions are going to be about a lot of concerns that all the retailers or retail investors have. So it's -- no question is to be taken personally. This is all for the benefit of everyone, for the industry and for your team as well. So I'm glad you did talk about value realization for our company, and you and your team have been doing a lot of good work in that regard. However, I think some of the basic things are not taken care of. You did talk about MCA, but what would it take for your team to upload the call transcript?

Call transcript. Okay. Call transcript, we did not upload. I'll tell you what happened. Because now we have free time I can talk without delay. Okay. So see, the call transcripts, we used to upload every call. You go back and look, then we stopped. Because one of the transcripts that was uploaded was used in a court of law against us. They said this is what they updated to the shareholders, and they had a written evidence of that. So from that that quarter on, we have stopped uploading it. Now there is a school of thought. Somebody has said, this has to be published as per the requirement. There's no requirement to have a conference call in the first place. There are a lot of listed companies that do not have a conference call. So we are trying to do a conference call to get the interested investors to come and ask questions and learn. So then I think on their own, people are putting up their transcript, which I encourage them to do. I have nothing against it. But from a company perspective, if I put this out there and somebody is using that as an evidence against me, I don't appreciate that. I need to stop that till we reach a point where it doesn't matter. At this point, since there are a lot of updates specifically regarding a couple of legal challenges we had at that time, I had to stop. So hopefully, we will revive the culture of uploading conference call maybe in the coming financial year. There's nothing against it. The only thing is we're just concerned that our opponent in the court of law could use it against us. So we just have to be more careful.

That's good. So I think you are really one of the persons who's very careful about his choice of words. You even asked about, I think, if someone took it to the court and [ surprise ]. Anyway, I understand your point of view. We are good with that. Moving to the next question. I have a bunch of questions, so please bear with me. You mentioned some of the analysts have tried reaching you. But whenever I have tried calling a Board member, I've never seen a single officer answering the phone. Only once that happened. And when I said I need to talk to the Investor Relations, they said this wasn't [ allowed in ] 11:30. And after that, nobody answers the phone.

Okay. Yes, I have been getting this same feedback. We will -- I know I promised the same thing last call as well. We will make some arrangements for that. We will -- I know this has been definitely one of the big complaints that we need to pay attention to. I admit that it has been -- not been perfect. We have tried to answer things on the net. But I think on the call, sometimes now there was -- maybe we will try and fix that as well. No problem. We'll take care of that.

Next I think on the recent newspaper article, you mentioned we have about 150 employees in India. Are all of them on direct roles of our companies? And how many -- if you could give us the breakup as to how many are working with Brightcom Group, how many Yreach and how many LIL?

I'd have to get back to you on that. I don't carry it in my head. But yes, but it's in the same group. So I never see that. It's all to do with convenience of what goes there. It's just internal. It just are all subsidiaries, 100% subsidiaries of the parent. So I really don't mind. Why is that important to you. Can I understand? What are you thinking?

Are all 150 of them are on roles of Brightcom? Because one of my sources tells me that in terms of TF, you're paying TF only for about 40 to 50 people in India, approximately.

Yes. That could be right because that is the employees, and I say, 150, that employees between all 3: LIL, Yreach and the Brightcom Group. To me, there are...

I just wanted to get the clarity?

Yes. Sorry.

So just saying 150 on...

So I never -- we don't separate out because that the reason for name of the group to have groups because that is the group. Okay. So I wouldn't panic about it at all. So I mean you can come to the office any time to take a look. We do have people. That's no problem.

I guess, 2 with you, finance, and also there is some beginning to think business about.

Good thing you brought up so people understand as well. Yes. There's -- it's not like BCG has so many on payroll. It is the sum of all together. Yes.

Understood. Okay. So next question. So you mentioned of 16 subsidiaries we have, I hope I did that number right, 12 of them are going to be consolidated under one umbrella entity. So which of 12 entities are you able to -- are you in a position to specify those 12 entities?

I mean obviously, we have the names here. I can -- let me see. A good question. I didn't think it was necessary to put them on there, but it's fairly obvious. Fundamentally, we didn't include the subsidiaries that are in India. We didn't include the standalone in India. We tried to include everything here. Then there are a few which are not doing much. There's some sitting in Singapore or something like that, which is there's no point. It just costs some additional fee. So based on those criteria, we picked all the subsidiaries that are outside of India, and that is functional. That's all. We can give the list. No problem.

Okay. So in terms of auditor, first question is, when are we going to onboard this new auditor? Is it going to be for FY '20 or the following year?

Right now, this is audit, you mean the audit in the -- in New York, the double audit?

That's correct.

Okay, yes. So this audit that we are doing for is for the last calendar year '19, 2019, where we go back and get all the paperwork together and then go through the books then audit that. And then that will go into the new entity, and then we start doing from there on. So I think they're still deciding on what will be the financial year-end on that. So based on whenever it is, they will try to put these together.

So can we expect the audited numbers for all these entities, they may sometime audited by the new auditor?

Right now, yes, I think the question that was asked was also I think, that there was -- the previous caller asked about when is the tentative plan that we will have a [ law suit ] in place. These 2 are tied with each other. I -- we are working diligently to supply the information and work closely with the auditor in New York. But I'm not able to comment a time because I don't understand how long it takes to do an audit of this size, primarily because they're all trying to consolidate for the first time some new company, new audit firm perspective. So which is why we have been promising as a Board, I think we work quickly inside. But I'm a little cautious in giving, commenting a number on that. But as soon as it is done, it will become part. It is 100% sum of Brightcom Group. And hence, we will publish that, then that will also be available to everybody. [ Thank you. ]

Okay. So does that mean, do you still continue to have 2 different audit house, one to audit the [ mother ] firm and another one to audit this India Group holding company?

Correct, correct. That's right.

Okay. At any point in time, are you planning to onboard a bigger audit firm?

We did. We did. We did, yes, we did try to work on this. We are trying to get EY. Because currently, EY does about 40% of our business audit. Primarily, that's happening through is that's still audited by EY, which is about 40% of our business. So we are trying to get them on board so that they do the entire audit for the whole holding company. They said they had a cutoff. And EY has -- everybody has their own thing. EY has their own cutoff. I think they have some 70% or 75% of the books have to be audited by them to consolidate. So hence, that took some time, and it is going on. So then, again, you are in emergency to get the line of credits in place and consolidate and open another opportunity. We started to think of a panel plan where it doesn't matter. If you take out the India standalone and if you take out LIL and if you take out Yreach out of the scheme of things and the rest is audited by a big firm, I think shareholders understand that it has been audited by a big firm, more or less, the whole business. So that is the thinking behind it. So hence, we took the second approach because it will help us in other parts of actually helping accelerate the business out of a couple of issues and things of that nature. So that's when we took the call of pushing that first because I can't do both simultaneously and kill the finance guys across the work. We can do one or the other because supplying information, answering questions, letting them get into the books and dig deeper, open up things, there's so many things that we'll go through that I cannot overburden the finance teams. So hence, we decided to go with the global auditors for consolidated global sub. Does that answer your question?

Yes. It gives me adequate information, to say the least.

Sure.

Moving on to the next question. I think, if I may, I'm going to collectively talk on behalf of all the retail [ universe]. I think there's a collective view that growing [ class ] are manipulating the share price, right? Because of the activities that we see, because of how many accounts they have the shares in, the [indiscernible], sometimes the [ growing class ], sometimes it's their organization. Clearly, at least we see a party through which they are trying to manipulate the price. Every now and then whenever we see some 3 subsidies of [indiscernible], we see them transferring shares, which I don't believe that is definitely impacting the share price. And so do my peers, right, what are your thoughts on that? And can we request to take some action on this?

Yes, yes, yes. Let me answer this. I know this is a conversation that has been going on. People have -- some people have directly asked us through emails and other way. So this is -- it's like -- let me see what is the [ panel ] that can explain our situation here. So we -- I represent the company. I'm not representing the shares. I'm not -- while I am a significant shareholder and my coworker group are significant shareholders, end of the day, I'm a manager of the business. I'm trying to make sure that the business runs well and the business is perceived well and the business shares are not manipulated. I'm 100% am with you on that. We have not found any evidence of this particular investor name that you're talking about manipulating the stock. We have 0. And we have tried to check everything, we have not found any evidence so far. Okay. So it could be our lack of understanding or whatever it is, but nothing and nothing has -- and people are completely at their decision to buy and sell whenever they want more shares they want, it is completely their discretion. Because everybody has their right to do what they want to do with their shares. There's nothing I can do to stop that, right? That being said, if you look at this particular investor's holding, it has only gone up. I've never seen them try to control or reduce prices for things. We don't have any such evidence so far. If you do find it, kindly send it to us. We're happy to work with them and find out what works with them. But I don't think until this point, we have not seen anything, either. I think they have been wrongly accused because they're a significant holder. There are others, I'm sure, who are more like brokers on the street trying to play this, trying to work with it. I'm sure somebody else is trying to do is again, complicated to get a finger on. Unfortunately, these are the visible large shareholders. Hence, the single response to that is my opinion. I may be wrong. But this is my opinion. We have done our homework on that, and I have not found any wrongdoing from them so far.

So okay, if someday, they are able or in fact are able to, any...

If you find something, feel free to send it to us. We'll look at it. No problem. So we're also -- we are all working in the interest of making sure the right value is realized, whereas at the end of the day, it's valuable for me as well because I am a significant holder as well in my group.

Yes. Right. Okay. Moving on to the next question. You did talk about holding an investor meet, which is a fantastic step to take. And then you mentioned the time line is around next week or so?

Next week, we'll announce the date, not next week. Next week, we'll announce the date. Because we have to, first of all, round up the analysts and make sure they'll attend. But I don't want to raise any hopes on that because our multiple is still below 1. I think you get results once your multiple is in the range of 5 to 6. That's when the analysts have the [ reason ] to start taking their bets on the company. At this point, they just asked [ dirty ] questions and -- but it's good to be in their view. We don't have problems facing them, talking to them as coming back. It's just the [ solution]that I get.

It's just they are best of interest to the investment [ or in investment ].

, Exactly, exactly. So I just don't want to raise hope, but this is a step, we will definitely take.

Brilliant. So what would be the medium of that Investor meet? Are you going to invite them...

I'm thinking there's call together a group of people in Bombay. Because Bombay is the center of the financial work. And then have all this management come and make a presentation and answer any questions just the way I am answering you today.

So are you going to look at only Indian investor or even foreign investors?

To start with, I'm looking at Bombay, yes. I mean we'll open up to other people to come, maybe Hong Kong, Singapore, there are some analysts we can reach out of. We'll see. At this point, this will be a Bombay-based event is my [indiscernible].

Okay. And that's fair. Okay. Moving to the next question. Daum this time round. So you mentioned they have come back with 2 more, a couple more points that you have to negotiate now, and you have Board approval to represent the firm on that. So how confident you are about these points and being able to negotiate and push back on that?

Let me explain. I'll explain. I'll explain in a little more details to you. The discussions went on for a period of time. There were phone calls, exchange as such. When we reached broad terms of their settlement, that is clear. There's no going back from both sides on that. Post that day ask us to send a settlement agreement back, the -- our lawyers put that together. We made some -- our own additional subtractions to that and sent it to Daum, which is what I updated in one of the update from the past. And they have gone through it. They have looked at our legal language. They said we remove this and that. This is [indiscernible] and such. So it's not like there are any new conditions, but there are some clauses, and it's more legal clauses that have to be negotiated between the lawyers primarily. I really don't have much to add to that except that it doesn't bite us later on. I'll give you an example of this. Simple as that. When we did this transaction in 2010, it was a large shareholder agreement where we bought it and we got the shares of Lycos. Everything was negotiated. We said, okay, it is going to be 6x EBITDA. So 6x EBITDA. Then EBITDA was whatever approximately running towards INR 6 million. It is high 6x EBITDA. We paid INR 20 million upfront, INR 16 million in a year's time. This is what was understood. It was clearly understood by both parties. But there was a clause that we should have put in saying that there should be upper limits. Yes, 6x EBITDA, but not more than INR 36 million should have been there. The minor clause that their lawyers suggested, their lawyers suggested, we finally given, and that actually came back to bite us for 10 years. So we don't want to miss such points. So that is the reason the lawyers have their say. We will listen to them. We will say this we can work with, this we can live without. This, we can. This, we cannot. Simple things I think like, okay, you get Lycos back. What happens? What -- I mean are there any debts on Lycos? Things like that. So the lawyers have a knack of making sure that everything is covered on behalf of the law -- on behalf of the company, and it is protected. So to that extent, there are some nuances of legal updates that have to be finalized and negotiated. So I don't know how adamant or how strong they are on their side and I don't know how important it is on our side. So we have to see point by point and work through that. But broadly, the Board was very happy with what we presented. And these are just legal points that we make sure that we don't get in trouble because we missed some of these points. That's all it is. So there is no new difficult clause, to be honest with you. There's no new business clause. It is just legally, we just want to ensure that nothing comes back at us at any point. That's all.

Okay. That's very clear now. So the more I understand it, it is the new clauses will not have any drastic material impact on us. So worst is even if we have to even Daum, [indiscernible] their points, are we in a position to agree to those clauses?

I don't want to say that publicly. And I'll lose some of it, right? So please let me -- don't push me to that side. We need that way. Clearly, we are working with them, so don't worry on that. We will get that done.

All right. Next question. In your mind, what is the valuation of our organization?

Again, I do not want to comment. And you know the competitors, you know the market. And I can surely 100% hand on the heart say that it is massively, massively undervalued. I've been saying that. People have not been -- they said when you say that, but what is your outcome? Yes, whatever it is. But I truly believe the valuation we have is hugely undervalued. No 2 thoughts on that. And let me say what the market will value us. I don't want to speculate on that.

Okay. Let me [ try my luck again ] on that. Do you think we are comparable to Trade Desk?

Comparable to?

Trade Desk.

Who?

Trade Desk.

Trade Desk. Okay, okay, okay. Trade Desk is, I think, all valued. I don't know, the multiple is some ridiculous number. I think Trade Desk is [indiscernible]. I don't know. I see, I mean valuation is a very strange thing, right? It's -- one is, of course, the current business and how it looks. Two is future, where are you going to go in the future. And when we raised money, for example, in 2010, we will valued at, I think, INR 275 million lakh or INR 300 million lakh -- INR 300 million lakh. That was way before the size of the business that we have today. So there's a lot of room. No doubt about it. And that -- it was a private equity day. Now we're a public market. We have gone through and we're coming out of all these challenges. Surely, there's value to that. Secondly, what vision we portray our future, what are the things that we can execute, that will also determine the value and the market. So all these things have come together.

Understood. Next question. Like at some point in time, we were ranked #1 on fixed mixed trading. I'm not sure [indiscernible] current. I'm hoping you'll have a better understanding. So I think for Q2 of 2019, especially in the mobile sector, we were rated 29th right across Google, which was great to see. When do you expect this amount?

I don't want to say. Let me explain how this works. The fixed rate rating is again, there's a -- you have to understand the background behind it. So there is -- I don't want to bore you with the details of how they do the rating. The main point is it's a consumer trust index, to what kind of a trust that people have and traffic is sent from a particular network. So on those lines, at that time, we were the earliest to have the filters to stop bought traffic and [ fraudment ] traffic to flow through. Hence, there was a much higher confidence than us. And then others started to catch up. They all started implementing this filter, so then we started to go up on. So it is about what is the next new thing you come up with. So with that in mind, we came up with Compass 2.0. We're embedding some of it towards all the different media types. And already, we got picked up in the top 72. So these ratings, end of the day, you have to play amongst all of them, who is first and second doesn't matter. End of the day what the advertiser looks for is for the money they have spent, are they getting the maximum views, maximum engagement, maximum bang for their buck, if you may. And then from the publisher perspective, they are saying for the media that I have. What is the maximum revenue I can generate? So who is that partner who can do that for you? So if I can do even 2% more than the next guy, they'll come to you. So this is the nature of the beast. Of course, there are other parameters. Are these guys capable of paying in future? Are they financially stable? Those also come into play. So all these parameters taken into account, that's what the next business rate. We could have been larger. One of the reasons we were not -- we are not getting the growth that somebody has asked also is the cash flow of the business. Had we had the ability to know -- to move the -- to have the limits, we would have been definitely larger in size than what we are today. Hence, there is an urgency from a business side as well to get this line of credit to help the business grow. I know I went all over the place. But the idea is to give you a sense of how these ratings, what they are looking for. Each rating has their own way of looking at it. So that was for trust index.

Understood. Okay. So now there's the perception amongst the shareholders that you already have all the newer details with you, but you announced it to the general public through exchanges only when you want to. Like Daum, do you always have the literal feed?

Let's say, I've made this mistake early days of being -- there is actually, at the very nature of things, I am a very optimistic person, and I assume that things will go positively. And then we had where I said a few things publicly on ET Now or even a CNBC interview, and then I had to come back and eat my words because we are not able to fulfill it. So I've kind of learned the hard way that you only announce when things are ready. Otherwise, you wait. It is okay even if you wait for a day or 2 days, 3 days, 1 week, it's alright. But I am not in the game of trying to pump up the price. That's not my objective at all. I am in the business of trying to update the shareholders about where the business is and send positive vibes into the business where in the long term, value realization happens. So that has been my only reason. Otherwise, I'm not trying to play with the emotions of anybody. I know I do get some very emotional calls sometimes. If you get all upset, I'd say, "Hey, why are you not talking about it?" Because there is uncertainty, unless I am certain, unless it is done, I cannot announce. That's how it works.

Understood.

There's no [ value in ] trying to make people -- hurting people and making them wait. There's absolutely no such things. Just to make sure that when we announce, it is real and it is actually happening. In spite of that, there have been delays. For example, like just now one caller said, you said this inflection point, 3 months have happened, where a lot of things have happened, but it doesn't satisfy. I don't want more people like that. I rather have people be surprised and say, "Oh, wow, they have actually done it." So that has been the [ first ].

Okay. So indirectly, you're saying, first day, when we received the notification saying you've got something back from Daum, and you're going to have a Board meeting on Friday. So we collected the dates when you received the feedback from Daum?

Yes. Yes, I can share the e-mail with you. Nothing was sent back. The day you [indiscernible].

You are [indiscernible] more than enough?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes, absolutely.

Okay. Next question. Can you please shed some light on the perspective. I think another company, I may not be commenting their name correctly [indiscernible]. So I think someone brought this company's name to attention through some forum. I just want to get your perspective on them?

Okay. Can I do that another day? I'll leave it today. Can I not answer this?

We have next question from [ Amina ], an individual investor. We have a question from Amina, an individual investor. I'm moving to the next question. We have next question from [ Pravin Khurana ], an individual investor.

Yes. Good afternoon, Mr. Reddy.

Good afternoon, Mr. Khurana. Please go ahead.

So anyway, I think most of the questions, I think, one had in mind have, by and large, been addressed by you. I don't think there's very much maybe left except, obviously, there is this little uncertainty regarding time lines on the consolidation and the audit thereof and the release of the report and possibly, as you said, the financial year as such, that could be decided and determined for that group of -- 12 subsidiaries. So I think, by and large, I would just like to congratulate you and thank you on the excellent results and the work that's really been put in. I think we really appreciate that. I know your patience is required and has been maintained by the shareholders that will be possibly on the -- close to the end of the tunnel, so to speak. Thank you very much.

Thanks a lot sir. Thank you.

We have next question from [ Sugan ], an individual investor.

Yes, my only question is, like, I was working in Sweden for some time. There, I could see like brightcom.se as one of the sites in Sweden, Stockholm. When I go to the website, it says like Brightcom also with the Microsoft Dynamics. What is the kind of business we do there?

I didn't catch that? Where were you working, sorry?

No. We work in Sweden, Stockholm.

Sweden, Sweden. Okay, okay. Okay, okay. Right, Sweden, sorry, I didn't catch that. Sweden, yes, it's same stuff. They've been buying and selling media, working with publishers to monetize their advertisements, their traffic and working with ad agencies, working with advertisers to take their product and trying to get them traffic to make sure that somebody buys that product. So that's the same nature of the it, nothing different. Same stuff.

Okay, okay. No, in the website, it was mentioned, like we have a collaboration with the Microsoft Dynamics.

Yes, we do. Yes. We work closely with customers, all the major players. We work -- we have had exclusive arrangement with Microsoft in South America for the longest period of time where any ad that runs on Microsoft property coming from the southern part of South America always goes through our network. Similarly, we had agreements with Yahoo!. We have a global agreement with Yahoo! still that -- I mean because now that is with Lycos. That is another thing that should come back once we are able to close this. And third one is, we were amongst the very first marketing partners for Facebook, probably the first one to actually get access to their database starting way back when, and then they started adding other marketing partners. So we continuously do this as part of being ecosystem partner. So there is types of players. And one is, what is it that we offer; two is what is ecosystem. So when you start looking at the ecosystem, we look at partners, whether it is a partnership for media or partnership for advertisers or the other clients or sometimes we work together with various players. So it's just a mix of things. As an example, I can tell you with Yahoo!, we used to have both sites. So they had advertisers who come and sign up there. We would share their stream of advertisers and actually syndicated to some of our -- our site. And then -- and we were able to actually monetize some of their traffic coming to their site. So these partnerships are part and parcel of enterprise business. So I mean but we do collaborate with a lot of major players. There's no 2 thoughts of that. I hope I answered your question.

Yes, yes, yes. And one more thing. Currently, if you see the top line growth is almost stagnant, do you believe, like once the [ LOC ] is done once we get money, will the growth will be high?