Celebrus Technologies plc (CLBS.L) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Celebrus Technologies Plc Capital Markets Day. [Operator Instructions]. We may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, [indiscernible] your questions submitted today and we'll published those responses where it's appropriate to do so. We'll shortly submit a poll, and I'm sure the company will be most grateful for your participation. I'd now like to hand over to CEO, Bill Bruno.

Good morning. Thank you, sir. Good morning, everybody. Thanks for joining us, both virtually and remotely. We've got a fun agenda -- obviously, for those of you who are in the room, you don't have to log into the application to ask your questions. You can just raise your hand, and we'll just repeat them to the audio so that everybody [indiscernible] gets the benefit of hearing what it is that you're asking, just to make sure the audio is working. Really appreciate everybody taking some time today. We've got a fun agenda. As always, we'll start with the financial update from Ash. I give you a bit of a business update, as this is our first Capital Market Day at Celebrus Technologies plc. So we have finally now simplified the brand and aligned under Celebrus and behind Celebrus as the sphere of our business. I'll talk a little bit more about that and kind of how we're going to market. We've got Ant Phillips, who's the smart person in the room, who will walk through some of our product updates. And we have a video, and I'll just warn you now. We've got some technical difficulties with said video, where it's only audio. So we all listen to podcast. So we'll just pretend it's a podcast. The video itself will be uploaded online. So you can watch and see [indiscernible] if you so choose, but the audio is the most important thing anyway and yes, that's the agenda. So with that, I'll turn it over for the most exciting part of the financial updates. Come on, Ash.

Thanks, Bill. So I'm going to run through quickly financial highlights, and then we'll go into a bit of detail around each of the financial statements and just talk about how they impact the business. So financial highlights, you will see that the annual recurring revenue increased to GBP 17.4 million during the period. That compared to this time last year of GBP 15.8 million and a year-end figure of GBP 16.7 million. And as you see in the statement in a few days ago, we anticipate the ARR growing on a period-over basis. Total revenue went up to GBP 13 million. I'll go into a little bit of detail [indiscernible] comparison to GBP 8.1 million at this time last year and GBP 21.4 million for the full year last year. And I'll talk a little bit about first half and second half waiting. Software revenue, which is a key metric for us now, went up 18% to GBP 7.3 million. We're using software revenue metric to distinguish from total revenue, which includes hardware cost revenues. And as we call that, and again, I'll say that in a few moments. The gross profit margin was 37.4%. That was low in the first period as it often is, this time around due to higher hardware in our revenues. But I'd like to talk a little bit about the underlying software and gross profit margin as well. I think that's a little bit more important in terms of understanding the scalability of the business. For the first time in 20 years, we showed an adjusted PBT profit just GBP 0.2 million, but that compares to GBP 1.3 million loss this time last year, and that equates to 0.56p of earnings per share. Cash position at the period end was GBP 14.7 million, and I'll talk about kind of the dynamics of that cash balance and working capital and how that sort of fluctuates month to month. And then finally, we've had a dividend of 0.92p per share. That's up 4.5%, and I'll talk about the use of our cash over the medium term. So turning to the income statement. For the first time, the final results last time, we split out the software revenues to highlight the underlying sort of growth in the business. As you know, we have quite a high degree of fluctuation in headline revenues from hardware sales in some periods. Hardware revenues can be GBP 2 million and some periods [ GBP 7 million ]. So that sort of distorts the headline revenue. So we're focusing on software revenues as being the key metric. And in this period, they're up 17.7% to GBP 7.3 million. The gross profit margin was lower, as I said, at 37.4%. So we are looking, as I said, the software GP percentage being more representative of what's happening underlying in divestments. So the software GP percentage is 56.4%, and we would expect that to go back for the full year as it was last year to [ the high 60% ] and in due course, to go to 70% and beyond. The OpEx increased to GBP 4.9 million compared to GBP 4.5 million this time last year. I said last time about how we spent last financial year, restructuring the business. We invested a lot into systems. So new finance system and new CRM, a new HR system, [indiscernible] manager, a contract manager. From those, we were able to extract lots of efficiencies and set headcount we see from those investments to then be directed to the front end into sales and marketing and setting up a customer success team. So last year, we held OpEx flat also with a headcount of 150. But now having done the restructuring, we've got a really solid base within company. We now see investment increasing in OpEx increasing in the coming periods. So we've seen the start of that increase down in the second half what we've seen the full half impact, if you like, as additions in the first half. And what we'll also be doing the second is looking forward to FY '25 and the investments we need to make ahead of our year-end now to be able to deliver increased revenues and numbers for FY '25. So you will see that OpEx going up in the coming periods. Adjusted PBT GBP 0.2 million, that was assisted by our finance income. So we have good cash balances, and we invest this very wisely. We're very proactive around that. And so obviously, during a period of volatility over the last 6 to 9 months with interest rates quite increasing, but also fluctuating through short-term and long-term investments. We've been very proactive and managed to generate GBP 300,000 net from our cash balances. Annual recurring revenue, as I said, has gone up to GBP 17.4 million. And the reported adjusted diluted EPS was a loss of 0.56 -- sorry, [ profit ] at 0.56p. And the dividend, as I said, 0.92p for the period. Coming on to the balance sheet. Consolidated statement of financial position. So the major changes in the period were really around the debtors and the creditors. So at the last year-end, we talked about how a couple of deals have slipped through from the last year into the end part of this year, and that was the reason for the shortfall in revenue last year. So what we've seen in this period is that those -- 1 of those deals, which had a very high component, as hardware, was signed in early August. And so what you see in the balance sheet at half year-end is a very high sort of trade debt balance within another receivables. But conversely, you also see a high trade and other payables relating to that hardware. So if you remember, the shortfall was around GBP 6 million, and of that, around GBP 5.7 million was hardware. So that's why you see the trade and other payables going up and the trade and other receivables also increasing. And those transitions are in the process that we're working now. So we will be receiving cash shortly. As a side point, you may be aware that we don't generally have bad debtors. Most of my customer base is large, profitable multinational businesses. So we cannot have bad debts, but payment terms are generally anywhere between 45 days and 90 days depending on whether we're doing direct or we're doing through a partner. And in this case, it was through a partner. The final point I'd make really around the assets held for sale. So this is an item we introduced at the last year-end moving out of the property, plant and equipment and into asset sale. This is our London property of GBP 3 million valuation. So this is still on the market. We now have offers, which we are negotiating and these come from a wide range of types of buyer and of course with any property sale, there are pros and cons to structure the deal to work, and we'll be announcing further information in due course. And finally, on the cash flow. So the main items in the cash flow, I think the first thing to draw your attention is we saw the movements in working capital. And actually the same, again, really about how we recognize our revenue and how we do our volumes. So a typical service contract will be a 3-year contract, and that include a high proportion of license revenue, an element of support and maintenance, increasingly now an element of Celebrus Cloud, which we launched a while ago and a very small element of services. And how we recognize revenue on that is that the services will be recognized on a percentage complete basis as we implement the service platform, and that's typically around sort of 2 months or so. This full maintenance and service count will be recognized evenly over those [ 36 ] months of the contract. The license is a bit unusual. We issued a license for a 3-year contract year by year. So at the time to time on the first anniversary then for the second year and second anniversary for the third year. Now under IFRS 15, once we've delivered the license, our obligations are fulfilled. So we're required to recognize the whole of that license revenue in the month we deliver it. So that does lead to some distortion, if you like. This isn't really a SaaS kind of model. So when that license revenue was recognized, can have an impact on the period of results to be what we recognize in month 1 or month 6 or month 7. Equally, coming back to working capital. The significance of that is that when we sign a new customer or we do review -- a 3-year review, we will build a whole of the first year in [indiscernible]. And then similarly, at the first anniversary and second anniversary. So the billing's saturate by marketing month-to-month. So there will be months where we don't have any renewals, for example renewal of contract and we might build perhaps less than $0.5 million and there will be other months where we do have significant billings, which could be GBP 5 million or more. So the position [indiscernible] really come down to the level of renewals and the number of new logos or sometimes some upsell as well in a particular period. So you will continue to see that fluctuate higher market. And of course, for this half year, it's been affected also by this large contract with high degree of hardware revenues. On the cash generated from operating activities, nothing of any significance. We have accretion and amortization of course. We have share-based payments. And then moving now to investing activities, we have a very low CapEx requirement in the business like most software companies. We also tend to capitalize a very small amount of R&D now. We would rather not capitalize R&D. We would rather have a gaze to the income statement. We believe that gives you a much cleaner income statement. It's easier to understand. And we're also aware that there is a reputation among software and use of capitalizing R&D to flatter the P&L and take profit out and capitalize them. However, our under IFRS, we are required to capitalize a certain amount of R&D and that comes down to sort of the nature of the R&D. So we have an R&D spend typically in the year of around GBP 2.2 million to GBP 2.4 million. And of that, we are capitalizing somewhere around sort of GBP 200,000, GBP 300,000, GBP 400,000 depending on the type of R&D businesses. And then finally, our financing activities. We paid dividend. So this GBP 856,000 in this period is the final dividend from the last financial year. You've seen the comparatives. This time last year, we had paid GBP 6.2 million. And that was in relation to the special dividend we paid, which was 12.5p per share, roughly GBP 5 million and our cash balances were quite healthy at that time. Purchase of shares, so we continue to have a share buyback program. And the reason behind that is principally to negate the dilutive effect of the share options and LTIP. This isn't a particularly proactive share buyback program. So we're not going out seeking share, but they will be mocked up by our broker and activity at the end of the day. And as I said, we'll take those up to a certain level to net off the effect of dilution. So that brings us down to the movement of GBP 2.5 million [indiscernible] as I said, fluctuates period to period, as we look forward to the rest of the financial year with the billings that we've got now outstanding at the year-end at the half year. And also as we look forward to the second half and the kind of the nature of our billing typically be second half. So you've seen from previous statements we do have first half, second half in balance, if you like. In that second half revenues are generally higher than first half revenues. That will never be 50-50. We're trying to move it to typically around 40-60. But what that also means is it's because of a lot of those revenues are related to license. That's what gives us [ outline towards ] the second half and then certainly, with that recognition of the license and the renewals, that also means we have a high amount of billings in the second half. So typically you will see our cash balance at the year-end being higher than it is at the half year. And that's it.

Before you sit down, Ash, we had a question that I think we have to obviously answer right now around software gross margin and our improvements. And that perhaps you could speak to what's included in the costs that go into you're calculating the gross margin for software market currently and you also how we view the margins across the various things that come into software revenues?

Sure. Yes, good point -- good question. And it's important to sort of know the margins on these direct streams because as you look forward to what [indiscernible] like in 3 years' time and how the income statement will be affected, it's important to understand that. Now the margins we have are very typical for a software company. So when a license, typically we're looking at around 85% gross margin. On support maintenance, typically, you'll be looking at around 65% to 70% gross margin. And then on services, typically, you'd be looking around 40%. And then for Celebrus Cloud which we've introduced recently, you're also looking at -- and support maintenance kind of margin of around 65%. So the blended margin on software revenues, as I said, is in the high 60% or so and this approaching 70% and will go beyond the due course. And the reason it will go beyond 70% is we sell more new logos as we do more upsell. The largest component of new contract is license. So on a typical contract, we might have -- I mean, just taking numbers out of the air for $1 million a year, there might be perhaps sort of 700,000, 800,000 of that is license and that's high margin. And then the other 300,000 will be a combination of the support and maintenance or [indiscernible] services as part of that. So that blended margin will increase because as we sign new logos, as we do more upsell on existing customers, the large proportion of that upsell and that new logos will be licensed. And so that -- increased that high gross margin licenses will increase our overall blended gross margin for software revenues. Does that answer it?

Yes. All right. Well. Thank you, Ash. I appreciate the background there. I mean I think ultimately getting a sense of is where we're focused now. And I think there's nothing more outpaced than the fact that we only have 1 branch market getting rid of retiring, I suppose is the better word, the [indiscernible] name and aligning all the [indiscernible] makes sense, obviously, meeting with many of our investors that was a constant question. There were just some things that took a higher priority, all of the system changes, the people changes, the fact that we've completely restructured the business in about 19 months, built an entire new leadership team and stood up a direct sales business, a new marketing department, et cetera. And we finally got down to the name change. And here we are, right? And so that's the -- it's a bellwether though, because when I joined the business, there's 5 years ago yesterday [indiscernible] by the way. But 5 years ago yesterday, I joined the business. And 1 of the first things that I was asked was which team [indiscernible]. I told the company that tell you all my detail right, because if you're viewing yourselves as different teams, if you're viewing yourselves as different mentalities, all that does is take away from the momentum and the business. It needed a strategy, it needed kind of a northern star to guide towards. And for us, it's that we are a software business that sometimes sells services. And that's drastically different because everything that we do, everything that we invest in, all of our engagements with customers now. The sole focus is how do we sell more license to that customer and obviously make them very happy with that and get them value and in turn, give their consumers value as well. And our mission statement has also been quite cleared up. And hopefully, as many of you have been meeting with us over the last few rounds that Ash and I have been doing together in our one-on-ones, the brand is starting to get easier and easier to understand. But our mission is very simple. It's to improve the relationships between brands and consumers by a better data. And so what is better data means? Well for us and what you'll see when that comes up here and present, it's about bringing our software, our people and our processes and in some cases, the environments that we're building and hosting to the forefront for the brands that we're partnered with, whether they're some of the top financial institutions around the world, top retailers around the world, health care in the U.S., travel, hospitality, telco, you name it. They all have a very core problem and that core problem is their digital data set, is not up to par. They're not able to use digital data. And for us, that's the massive opportunity for the Celebrus platform. And we continue to innovate that platform, and you'll see some of that when that comes up here because [indiscernible] today. You'll see our launch of Celebrus Digital Analytics. You'll see some of our machine learning. You can't do a meeting without talking -- mentioning artificial intelligence at least 37 types, right, in a room these days. And for us, it's about how do we build models that take the data we're capturing for customers, about their consumer interactions and help them find the needles in the haystack faster, help them get value from the platform. And so everything that we've done, whether it's efficiency and process internally or externally and how we engage with customers is designed around making Celebrus easy to use, making Celebrus easy to drive value from and candidly make Celebrus easy to buy from. Because when all of you over the years didn't understand our premise of what our business is doing, now you can probably understand how competing it was when we're trying to sell it as well. And now we have a very straightforward sales process. We know what pain points to listen for. And it's the benefit of our marketing investment and our sales investment over the last year that has helped us learn that. And we've taken that further. So as we've talked about for the last year, we talked about that and expand from a sales perspective, right, which again, it's not rocket science. It's just something we should do when you're trying to sell software. So finding your pain point, selling them just that pain point and then bringing in customer success to work with that customer to help them understand all of the things they could be doing with our platform and then ultimately upsell them and get them up and running on those things and get to improving those relationships between brands and consumers even more so with some of the new features and functionality of Celebrus. And so customer success team is 1 that we put in place this year. I'm happy to report that, that team is doing fantastic. We've set up in international and a U.S.-based team to work through our accounts. And in the pipeline today, it's probably about 80% of our existing customers have some opportunity in the pipeline already for expanding their usage of Celebrus. The 2 newest features, Celebrus Digital Analytics and Bot Detection, which you see here shortly, are both already in use in organizations. These features went live in the summer. That is incredibly fast for the history of this business to give customers up and running our new features and functionality. And that's the [indiscernible] historically D4t4 was a company that tried to sell massive enterprise deals that could take a lot of time, 12, 18, 24 months in some cases. What we're trying to do now to sell software that serves a very specific pain point and worry about the rest later because it's a lot easier to sell to an existing customer than it is a new. And so our goal is to shorten sales cycles to on average 8 months. So when we're looking at our sales team's pipelines, we're hoping and looking to build a sort of a range of opportunities in the pipeline. Yes, there will still be enterprise deals in those pipeline, 1 or 2 per salesperson. But ideally, there's a significant number of pain point sales that we can move much more quickly through the pipeline. And that's ultimately the goal. And from a key win perspective, we called out several. We called out some upsells, but what I want to focus on today is what we're considering a bellwether for the business, sort of proves the things that we've been talking about. Our newest logo is a bank in the U.S. that purchased the Celebrus platform. They came to us through the website. So that shows the marketing and lead gen is starting to work that we've tested and we've been investing in those things. From the time they reached out to us till the time to close -- because we now have systems that can track these things. It's amazing what you can do with data. It was under 5 months. I think about 4.5 months to close. They purchased Celebrus platform, in Celebrus platform, where we're hosting and managing it for them, and they utilize several broad end marketing use cases out of the gate. They're not even fully implemented yet, and they're already talking to customer success about adding new features. So for us, that's Celebrus. That's what we want to be as an organization. That's what we're aspiring to be every day as we continue to make changes, as we continue to learn, as we continue to adapt. It's about listening to pain points, selling them those pain points and driving that forward. I already covered some of these customer wins. But for us, it's Celebrus platform. Ash talked about sort of the hardware revenue, and we do have legacy customers where we're managing on-premise environments or -- that we've been managing for quite some time, put good money in. The margins aren't quite as high, and we'll continue to support those customers. But from a sales perspective, we no longer even offer on-premise as an option. Now that being said, our sales been a part. So if the customer wants to come in and say, we want to buy your software, we have to put it on prem and they've got a check to sign and we will do it. But in the sales decks and in the presentations and in the way that we're pitching the software, Celebrus platform is primary option number one and secondary option would be the clients on cloud if they associate, and that's it. And there's many reasons for that. And there's things that we didn't even maybe think about initially. But it goes all the way across the business by making the shift because it helps us better support our customers as well. It also helps us ensure that we've got our customers on the latest and greatest technology so that they can be early adopters of new features and functionality when we bring them live. There was a sort of undercurrent in the business of a lot of clients that have been on various versions of Celebrus. It makes very difficult to upsell them if we also then have to get them upgraded to the most recent version. By getting everyone on Celebrus Cloud, by having a standard offering that's fully automated and scalable with some of the amazing IP and development that our team has done to date to bring that to life in a very short period of time. It enables us to turn these features on overnight for customers. The banking customer that the new logo, they have the ability to trial 3 features that they're interested in. We can just put them on like a switch for 3 months. Let them see the value of it, turn them off and then ask them if they want to pay for, right? So for us, is -- there's a lot of value there. So if we truly want to improve the relationships between brands and consumers, what we have to do. We have to give brands the opportunity to see with this tech that we're bringing to the market and do for them, give them the opportunity to see some of that value and then turn that into a commercial discussion that benefits all of you, all of us and allows us to further develop our people, continue to develop our product and candidly grow the business at an exciting level that we can rally around and get excited. Here -- a little bit later as well -- here in this room, I think everybody that's virtual will actually see the video based on the testing when they're on the laptop, but we will make sure that video is posted online so you can see the video [indiscernible] phenomenal background dedicated [indiscernible] so you're not going to want to miss that. [indiscernible] ridiculous backgrounds in our video [indiscernible] we can talk about later. But solution partners are a key element of our business. This is relatively -- we talked a bit about it in the summer as we made the rounds in July. But for us, we continue to invest in technology partners. We have some fantastic technology partners. We're building integrations with new technologies. We're not even part of it because just customers have asked us. But where we see lead gen, it's through solution consulting partners, solution integrated. And that's my background, right? When I came out of University, I founded a consulting firm that built a business around helping technologies like Celebrus. That's where I first came across Celebrus. It's called Speed-Trap back then, 27 years ago. And those brands, the Merkle, the CX forwards of the world and some of the other partners that we've built, they're strategic advisers to customers, right? They're telling them what can solve their pain points. They're on the front line. And so arming them with the Celebrus capabilities and forming partnerships like the 1 with Merkle that you'll hear about as the last agenda item today. We see as more and more opportunities to build sales channels without investing in the sales channels. We can have solutions consulting partners out there who can build a service offering around Celebrus, deliver all of those services and help us scale and simply help us sell more software, then that's a great opportunity for us as a business, and that's why we're exploring. So the last thing I'll leave you with, and then obviously, we'll address questions later on, but before I turn it over to Ant. You've heard me talk a lot about data. All the systems that we put in place have given us phenomenal ability to not only visualize what's going to close when and where the deals are and where the revenue is coming from and what's already committed, et cetera, et cetera. But we also have the ability to forecast that out. And with the current pipeline and visibility with deals that were already in legal negotiations with now, we feel very comfortable about the outlook for the year, and we're quite excited about it. And we're also extremely excited about where we're taking this business. So hopefully you're sensing some of that. But we are now a software company. We are all aligned buying 1 brand. We've completed several restructures to put the right people into the right places. And as a result, we've uncovered some phenomenal talent that needed an opportunity to shop. So we're really excited about where we're going. I'm thrilled about it. I always get asked, what are you trying to do with Celebrus? We're trying to take over the work. And in my opinion, our software is the best software backed by 1 of the most phenomenal engineering team that I've ever seen. The people that are on the front lines that are delivering these projects care about our customers, to the point where we get feedback on a weekly basis for customers, saying that we're the only vendor that delivers on promises. And that's the type of vendor we want to be. In many ways, we're being a software company that's an anti-software company, right? Because we want to be honest, ethical. We want to deliver on our promises, but more importantly, we run and align and put our great people on the front lines with our customers, get them access to software that truly can be game changing for them as businesses and ultimately drive those better relationships with their consumers. So with that, Ant, I will [indiscernible].

Good morning, everyone. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Ant Phillips. I'm CTO. Maybe 20 minutes or so, just to walk you through some of the new things, which come out to the last 12 months. A few slides, not too many and then a couple of demos. You can see how it looks in action. And you can ask questions as we go along. Where to start, so best place to start is just to reiterate what Bill said a moment ago that at the start, we have a software product business or software business. We have a sales-led software business. And what that means is when we see an opportunity, we go after it, and that's really how to tee up the 2 things. I'm going to show you this morning. In the last 12 months, we've seen 2 clear opportunities, 1 around digital analytics, which I'll talk about in a bit more detail in a moment and also Bot Detection. Bot Detection is 1 of those things that have lots of different names, nonhuman traffic, invalid traffic. That's the term that Google uses bots to everyone else. I'm just going to walk you through those things and why they are so interested in the market demand. Before I dive into too much detail, let's just set the scene for what Celebrus is, and it's actually these things. We don't talk so much now about CEP and FDP, some of those acronyms that become very confusing to -- in the industry as they go, then have to shape really for what they actually need. So we just talk about Celebrus now and all these capabilities and what the product can do. We can do a lot in marketing. That's our heritage of course, going back many years, increasingly over the last 3 years more and going forward. The banking customer that Bill mentioned a moment ago, it's right in there with a lot of forward interest and use cases they ought to deliver really good for us. But also some other things, CDI for salesforce is how we work with the salesforce marketing cloud, really strong partnership there and CX vault and unique patented technology, which allows our customers to work with their customers who have opted out. We have all those privacy concerns, but they still need a relevant customer experience even though they have opted out with data collection. And then the really new thing over on the right-hand side is the digital analytics, Celebrus Digital Analytics, CDA. And it's all built, of course, on the Celebrus platform including the Bot Detection. And that really comes back to something which we've been signaling for the last year or 2, really, which is we've always had the best technology for making it really simple to collect rich data visitors to company's websites, mobile applications and so on. We also want to start using that data model to add value to the business. And running machine learning models, which detect bots is a valuable thing for the businesses we work with. Being able to provide digital analytics is a valuable thing that uses our data -- use that platform. So it's about moving up the value chain, if you want to think with that, right? It's not just about getting the best data, so they're activating it as well. Okay. So where does CDA coming to all of this then? And actually, there's a whole bunch of reasons in the industry, which have made digital analytics a really interesting space to be in. And it's not lost on us to be irony here, which is web analytics or digital analytics is something that was -- we originally got into as a company back in the day, we moved from Speed-Trap, 20-odd years ago before we became Celebrus. That's where we started out life actually. And in the intervening years, where analytics became really uninteresting to Google and Adobe kind of took over the world. But now because of the changes in the privacy world, it's become an interesting space again, especially for a set of different industries like health care and insurance. So actually, we've kind of gone full circle and has become a really big opportunity for us. This quote here around the HHS, health -- Department of Health and Human Services in the U.S. was very a year ago, they sent a letter to a whole batch of health care companies saying, you cannot track you using Google Analytics, what your customers are doing on your websites and mobile applications. It is a bridge of health care information to do that. It's a breach of personal health care information, PHI. And that was such a moment in the industry that I don't think people fully realize how important it was that company's -- health care companies cannot use Google analytics because they are disclosing health care information to Google, same goes for Adobe Analytics. And what that created was a sudden surge of interest, which is now ongoing to have an alternative, which has not happened in the last 20 years. It's a remarkable thing when these things happen in the industry. And that was it. And what's happened since then, of course, is a lot of interest and a lot of movement in the industry. And it was followed up in July this year by a follow-on piece of information guided issued by the HHS, which is to inform 103 companies, you can search, it's up on the web, where they went after specific companies now saying you are still doing this, you need to stop doing it. So immediately, there's -- all these companies who are panicking about how they're going to get themselves out this situation. And this net is widening. So at the same time, there were after 5 tax advisory companies, Intuit has been one, saying you're also disclosing confidential financial information by using or using Google Analytics on your website. So if you cut a long story short, all of that creates a really fabulous opportunity for us to provide a better solution for these sorts of companies. And that [ next line ] which is going to widen over time and insurance could be next and it's really tough for them. So we have a solution. We built over the last 12 months. It's only available at Celebrus Cloud, we want to bring customers into Celebrus Cloud platform. and it provides a complete solution, a complete alternative to Google Analytics and Adobe Analytics. Companies who still want to run things in their own provider solution [indiscernible]. So whichever way the customer wants to tack, we can tack with them, either they run it in Celebrus Cloud or we might call them in Celebrus Cloud or they run themselves in Celebrus Cloud. And I believe at all, as I said a moment ago, is Celebrus platform. So it has all those good things that we talk about, identity graph, accurate, identity resolution. It doesn't use third-party cookies all those problems, which are in the industry at the moment. We don't suffer from those. And the benefit of that is the company [indiscernible] for example. That's what it looks like then, 3 different things. A customer can pick and choose whichever one they so choose. So like -- 2 of them, the 2 on the left, Tableau, PowerBI running Celebrus in their own environment. They have their own reporting solution. They want to do more advanced reporting, Tableau Workbooks for data savvy. For the other customers, they can use Celebrus Digital Analytics, and we will reform them right out of the box. And the absolute benefit of all of this is that it takes no work from the customer. It's not some big integration project. They just ask us to stand up Celebrus for them. They just start their own and they log in and it starts working. So there's no tagging, no effort. It's really out of the box in day 1. There's a bunch of sort of screenshots. Well, I say this is what the workbooks looks like actually, if you're running PowerBI or Tableau, lots of nice marketing-friendly data visualizations around cohorts, people who arrive on your site today and buy something, when do they come back and buy something in the future to the next people never come back. Lots of different sort of analytics that market is want to know how people arrive on the site, they're coming from social media, are they coming through affiliates or just brand aware and set you up. Lots of different views of that data. And all of this is just out of the box. That's the real beauty of it. It takes no efforts. It's up and running. This is some of the newer stuff around cohort analysis, I was just talking about. I want to share the screenshots of the CDA because actually, I can just show you the video so you can see what the product looks like. So see if can get this working. Right. This is CDA. So what you see here is kind of the only page of the application essentially, our customer logs into this. It's running Celebrus Cloud. Data is streaming through the Celebrus instance. They don't have to do anything to make that work. We just do it all. And the first page thereby, this dashboard just gives them an overview of what's happening on their websites and on their mobile applications, very familiar for marketers, nothing needed. So from a training point of view, it's all very straightforward, is made to look like Google Analytics to give them a very easy transition. So when those health care companies come out of Google Analytics, they can just come in to CDA, and it's all very familiar for them. No great learning curve. So all sorts of things you might expect a marketer would be interested in, things like visitor maps and so on. This particular demo takes us off to Texas Health, 1 of our customers. We're going to have a look at what it looks like on Texas Health so I arrive on their website. We just switched CDA across their domain, to have a look at their visitors. And once it refreshes, you'll see just 1 visitor. So it's not -- this is just a test system. It's not a proper production traffic. You can start to see some things kicking up here. We've got some visits and so on. And then all these things down the left-hand cycle that allow us to -- allow the marketer go and have a look around and see what's happening on their website. We got a real-time view of visitors in this visit here. It's called a visit log. It provides a kind of real-time view of what's going on the website. What I'm doing here is actually, I'm going to go and have a look at cardiovascular part of their websites. And we're going to see how that interest starts to reflect in CDA. Now CDA is 2 things. It's both real-time and aggregated data, who visited last year, did more people visit last month than this month. That's what digital analytics all about, understanding your audience. And here, we see a real time and individual person. You can see some stuff here about how they're arrived in the site, things that they're interested in and what they do on the website here is just really engaged with this bit of content. Perhaps I really want to know more about cardiovascular health. So I'm having to look through the page here. And Celebrus, of course, is monitoring or tracking all of this information. It's looking at what I'm looking at on the website. Now machine learning is allowing servers to say right, yes, so -- and showing an interest in not only in the patient services but also in cardiovascular products. And that's a really key point. That machine learning is a real value add that the product can do. We can understand what people are engaging with, and that becomes information that flows into CDA. Now at this way, having found an interesting cardiovascular health, I'm going on to see -- well, how am I going to pay for this. So I'm heading up to the health insurance marketplace. And it's another part of the website. Of course, from a marketing point of view, people -- markets want to understand parts of the subject. So here I am on the site, looking at the health instruction marketplace. And we will hit that over to CDA. And when I refresh this page, you'll see that the list of signals. These machine learning signals is not just I'm interested in patient services and cardiovascular health but also are now interested in health insurance. So we're building that picture of every visitor, what are they engaging with. And once that data is in CDA, it can be sliced and diced in just an extraordinary different ways, any people from East coast to U.S. are interested in cardiovascular products, who are using iPhones. That's the kind of capability that you can just take that data and reform it in a 100 different ways that anyone on the monitor what problem the market is trying to solve. Over on the left-hand side here, lots of different capabilities that we can look both the visitors and that real-time visitor log where they're coming from in the world. We can start to look at what the site is doing. And 1 of my favorite bits of the application is right here, where you can do transitions. So this particular page at 55 page views. And you can see that where people come into. It's probably hard to read from the back there. So I'll just talk you through, you can see how people arrive on that page inbound and where they exit. You can see all the way through the websites or mobile application and you can really understand how visitors are engaging in the websites. And if it goes on and on, there's absolutely wealth of capabilities down there, what people are searching for, people are downloading, also engagement, which is 1 of the areas that we really specialize in. So 1 of the disadvantages or 1 of the things that third party cookies really start up on is returning visitors, people interact with websites next day or week to week. Third party cookies really impact the efficiency or efficacy advantage. We don't suffer any of that. We really understand. If I visit the website and come back 3 weeks later, we understand it's still me. And that really shows through in some of that returning visitors and the engagement with the website. The next few -- or next minutes or so just walk through a few different parts of the website, acquisition, of course, or market spend a lot of money on acquiring customers, understanding how people are actually spending their money from an e-commerce point of view. It covers all the things which you see in Google Analytics and a lot more where the value add of what we do sign through. So this is looking at some goals, some conversion events in the way of putting that. And this information down here allows them up to drill down into as much detail as they need to and then just to draw this to a close media. Media is a really interesting one. So if you're a travel company, of course, you might really be interested in media, presenting videos of where someone might want to go on holiday, from a retail perspective, also really interesting, but actually health care companies use media a lot. And the reason they do that is to provide videos or presurgery videos for people to understand what they're about to go through. So that media section of CDA -- actually is going to see a lot of use from all different industries for very different regions of course, but still it's really applicable part of the application for different regions. Okay. That's CDA. So in interest of time, I'm going to quickly move on. Before I change that completely, any questions on CDA, anything not clear?

I think while you're switching the topic, Ant, the 1 thing I will say is this was an idea that we had 8 months ago. And it was in clients' hands 4 or 5 months later, something like that. So the speed of this is impressive. But it's also -- had touched on it, but I think it's worth really calling out. [indiscernible] of money of the complexity of the tools that we now compete. In 1 day, we could have a sign up and running on reports that we historically have taken them 6 to 9 months to create, and we do it on the flip of the switch. And what's been really difficult for marketers brands that run into this third-party cookie challenge because we've had a few brands that are taking this on, who came to us because they were in the dark. They had to turn off alter tech. They didn't know who was using their websites. They didn't know where the marketing investments and where that money is going. And they were candidly freaking out about it because it's not small amounts of money. When you look at advertising budgets and the brands that we're working with in most cases, it's the largest budget in their business, even larger than R&D. So to not have visibility into how those investments are performing is it's a massive business for us. So we think this is a great opportunity for us to solve that, and it was expected because as we started the Celebrus platform as a direct business, right? Still obviously selling through partners. But going direct, we knew we would get more questions. We knew people who want to test the limits of Celebrus and perhaps have Celebrus do other things that maybe we weren't allowed to talk about because we were sitting behind the partner who wanted to sell their stuff instead. And so these types of opportunities never would have happened, if we didn't start going direct and start having those conversations with brands.

Yes. Does it take a long time to set the stuff to the customer to train them to use it and train?

Yes, good question. So just for benefits on the people on the webinar, the question is, does it take a long time to get set up from a customer perspective and also to train to use it, yes. The answer is no to both questions. So the only thing the customer has to do is to put Celebrus onto their website or mobile application, which is a very straightforward thing to do. Data then start slowing because we don't need any integration, we just capture everything that their visits or uses of mobile application to do it. That flows into Celebrus and Celebrus Cloud. And then we package it up and presented in dashboard. And it's intended to be really simple to use. So it's entirely designed on the perspective of a marketer. So all the things, which I was showing you there, there's a lot of things there. Market is just understand that stuff. That's the world they live and using downloads and site search and these things. That's just what they do and breathe every day. So the idea is that this is entirely self-served. We don't have to run a training program, Celebrus is kind of irrelevant. The actual platform, it's kind of irrelevant if you want to be really good about it because what matters is what I showed you in the demo, which is their in website, their mobile applications and in CDA where they see what's happening. the fact that there's a whole bunch of clever tech in the middle which is doing stuff is neither here and all that. Their marketers get what they need and their website and mobile application is providing that kind of insight using Celebrus. So that helped?

Yes, it does help. I know you, yes, at the point of being able to turn on more marketing perspective, see increase in your clients demand for Celebrus?

Yes. And it's a really interesting areas because obviously, this is pretty new 4, 5 months. We're not yet sure how many customers will only want CDA, how many customers will want the full Celebrus Data Model and CDA or how many customers will just want the Celebrus Data without the marketing application on top. And actually, the way we built this is that we can start anywhere in that spectrum. And then the customer can add on to it. So they might be an existing Celebrus customer and then they add on CDA. We might tip them in over in through the door with CDA and then they realize the value of the data, and they start to get more capabilities added on license after that. So it gives us such a range of different ways to navigate a particular customer, wherever they want to start doing start small and relatively less expensive from a CDA and then we grow them out over time. If it's an existing customer, we can add on CDA. So really, really interesting possibility.

And it's the benefit of Celebrus because we have full control over this. And this is a reminder, too, because we've said that a lot. It's a single-tenant private cloud incidents for each client. There's no shared architecture. So it's dedicated to them, they own it, they control it, even though we manage it. So it passes all the security, you can buy its test in a way that other vendors. And it's turned out to be really interesting in the sales side. Going back to your question about the marketing spend. There's a couple of CDA marketing campaigns that just went live, I think, 1.5 months ago under some of the most interactive content we've ever had in market campaigning. So there's interest for sure, right, that we're looking to harness. It's really difficult to market these days. There is compliance challenges. So that was a nice win for the marketers to get them excited and gets the team sort of driving that forward. But from a sales perspective, it's been a quite fun is we'll have someone come in wanting to talk about this. And then will tell us about the rest of your platform. No, we're not going to do that. We're going to tell you this because this is what you need right now, worry about the rest later. Like we'll show you the rest later because the reality is somebody that buys CDA today, like 5% of the platform. So from a customer success perspective, it's just a natural revenue growth for us. And when we've got a customer success team incentivized on 20% year-on-year growth by selling deals like this, we're giving them the opportunity to achieve that, right? Because they can literally go in and just sell them Bot Detection and that or sell them something from Celebrus. It doesn't matter on the broad use case. The way that the team has architected this in such a short period of time, this fully enabled sales to just pick from a menu and say this is what we're selling this customer, and we have it all automated behind the scenes to get it up and running to the point where we're going through this with a new customer where they were deciding between [indiscernible] then they sell the time for us. And we determine the system on in 4 days from contract signature, fully light screen, ready to rock. Their internal IT team said it would be 8 months. So some of these things are no-brainers, right? It was a natural move for us to move to the cloud like this because nobody knows our tack better than us. And people are going to look at tack [indiscernible] was on the call yesterday, we were in final stages with another client where they were claiming it was going to take 30 days to deploy Celebrus on their website, which is an absolute job, right? But unfortunately, that's the only thing they have to do and we're doing the rest, right? So it does really help us move much more quickly to the value story. And it means that we can get potentially 2 or 3 bites of the apple for new customers in the same year that they've signed. If we're seeing that value more quickly, they're trusting us as a vendor more quickly and then we can go in and start talking to them about other features and functionality that we have across the platform.

Sorry, maybe as a question to be possibly what level of ARR [indiscernible]?

Yes, from an ARR perspective, our starting point now as a like a pain point land and expand pain point deal, whether it's CDA or something else, start in around the 200,000 to 300,000 U.S. range on average starting. We've got customers that have been with us for 6, 7, 8 years, where that number has grown to 7 digits a year. So for us, we've proven that we can grow the customers. We know we can deliver value. So it's really just getting these things where we can bring more new logos to make it more exciting as a software business and do it quickly.

I'm going to rewind because I want to just come back to this before I talk so that I can talk about bot detection, non-human traffic, very different world, much more data science, data focused, machine learning focus. bot detection is something that lives in the core platform. And the reason they live in there is because it's applicable to all of those things you may think, well, how does bot detection make any difference to the marketing portal, how the bot detection make any difference to the fraud world. And I'll talk about that. And the reason it's so interesting is because one of the points or proof points efficacy as analysts like to call it, around bot detection for retailers in the market space is that typically somewhere in the order of 20% to 30% of traffic coming to retail websites are bots. And then you think about, well, the impact that has on the way that market measure what's happening on their website, it's really impactful. So 30% of what those visits to their websites are not actually human traffic. They might be paying for it still. It's a great deal of pay per click sort of there, as fraud, which is a different thing, we'll talk about in a moment. But nonetheless, the marketers bots are just as much of a problem as the fraud bot. And in the fraud bot, bots are forced to break into websites. This is as a whole subindustry in the dark web buying stolen credentials or breach credentials and then using bots to try and get into people's bank accounts. So for a criminal, I like to spy 1 million breached accounts on dark web. And when I use those, use the names and passwords to try and get into their bank accounts and different websites, how that kind of cycle us for it happens. And the way they operationalize it at scale because you couldn't really have people going through cycling through 1 million different breached credentials to use bots and that's a bit of software basically cycles through the breached credentials just trying to one after another until they find someone who's used the same password on their bank account as they use on their retail website or whichever website have the data breach. So if you want to think of that as a warning not to use the same password on your banking websites and you do elsewhere, please do take it that way. That is really a bad thing to do because as soon as data breach happens, then your bank account is at risk. So let's scan forward and just 1 slide and then video. So why bots become an interesting thing? So it's a good question to us. Certainly, the reason why we got into CDA is because of those industry changes. So why is bots is interesting thing now. And actually, it's for a very different set of reasons, and most of it is technology-driven rather than market driven like the CDA changes around privacy. It's actually really simple to create bots. If you go to ChatGPT and ask it, create some software, which can be a bot, it will [indiscernible] on the right-hand side. It will write you some of the most fantastic codes, which just act as the bot, which ties up the browser, visit a website, but to use the name and password as was the money out and just do that all day, every day hundreds of thousands of times a day, you scale out to a server or you've got millions happening every day. I can just scale these things up so quickly but the barrier to entry -- of course it's getting so low now because this technology is out there. You can buy software packages, which are like for GPT. If you search out for GPT, it's a fraud package based around generative AI. It's all becoming so easy, which means that the websites and customers are the target. So therefore, the defense is need to be up accordingly to backlog this nonhuman traffic. There are actually some other interesting things happening around the world around bots. What used to be very much based around service. I'll stand up to serve a fortune just faster way trying to break into different websites. Some of these malware that you may have seen in the industry like genesis marketplace. They are running on people's computers with malware. So it's the computer -- the end user computer [indiscernible], which are actually trying to break into the website, not as a central server so much. That's still there that is distributed bots running on end-user devices. It makes them much harder to spot because it's not just 1 or 2 of these servers. it's anywhere. They want end user devices, which are where the bots are running. So that means where they used to live in data centers, now these bots are everywhere. They're on our end-user devices. They look just like real users. They log into the website. They have cookies. It looks just like you and I do when we use in our banking website. They behave just like regular users do. They don't just go stick to the login page and try logging with the stolen credentials. They kind of browse around showing interest in some special offer and then they try and break in. So they hide in sites by looking just like regular users. And of course, what really is driving on this is that this isn't small money bot. These systems are scaling up to millions of dollars every year. So it's become organized crime. It's not just a little bit of money here and there. We are talking very big money that's driven the whole business around bot detection. And it's just as relevant for marketers, as I said, as to the fraud credentials. So with that backdrop, I'm just going to show you how it works. So this video starts -- just forward a little bit. You probably know our background in [indiscernible] use cases. They are all relevant. They haven't actually changed over the last couple of years. What has changed very much in what we're doing for is how we talk about the product we really refined, especially this year, how we talked to people about what we do moving forward. It's very different in marketing and marketing, it's all about revenue, acquisition, can we drive more traffic to our website. Before, it's all about cost. It's about managing the operational cost to fraud, can't get rid of it all to just managing it to a certain level. And that's something which tops very much plays into because once people find a way into your site using bots, they scale up very quickly. So they need the right tools and the right data, of course, where we come into this to be able to kind of block it and [indiscernible] just as relevant as they always have been. So what I'm doing here, just to give you a bit of an idea of what behavioral biometrics, which is one of our core technologies looks like in our forward world, is going to first direct, and we are logging in. So this is a regular [indiscernible] website. Sitting behind this is Celebrus and our Bot Detection. Now I just need to pause here because there's a bunch to explain here. So this application is a case management tool. This is the sort of software that's used to world over by the [indiscernible] securities as a place to just work cases, suspicious activity, hacked accounts, other things which needs investigating, they use these kind of workforce management tools, case management tool all the time. This is one -- which is just actually an open-source product called the [indiscernible]. We've integrated with Celebrus. And what happened here is when we were tracking that visit to First Direct, we were able to use behavioral biometrics to verify that visitor is who they say they are. And that's what's happening here. This identity verified is just saying, we know who this person is and they are behaving exactly like they normally do. We wouldn't normally create a case to say everything good, a case is normally something bad, but for the purpose of demonstration what the product does, it just helps to kind of walk that through. And all these little blue things here, these are all risk indicators in the [indiscernible] for investigators. They talk about risk indicators. What are the risky things about this visitor? Are they coming from a different part of the world? Have they bought a new device that's a bit suspicious? All of those things are patched under this term risk indicators. So I think is good about that particular site was looking into First Direct. What happens now in the video is that we changed [indiscernible] and we visit First Direct again, but this time, we changed a few risk indicators so that it is a suspicious visit. So back on the website. New visitor is kind of tricky to identify because it's exactly the same computer, which is actually doing the [indiscernible] behavior has a bit of a difficulty factor to it. But nonetheless, we're kind of logging in. We've set behind the scenes, a few things about this visitor that looks suspicious to Celebrus. So we go ahead and try and log in. Meanwhile, back over Celebrus, we have detected that this is a suspicious activity and the account has potentially been hacked. And that's all done through behavioral biometrics, that's the technology underpins as well as providing a bunch of information about the countless impact, various other interesting things. We provide [indiscernible] a whole lot of other things as well. So now let's having figured out how to break into an account. Let's scale it up. And this bit of software that you see on the right here is conceding and it's a very typical kind of software that's forced to use to operationalize [indiscernible]. It is a piece of software that simply acts as a real person. And that's sequence of things, which is probably far too small to read there. Our set of actions is going to do. So what [indiscernible] does, it piles up a browser and then it starts doing a repeated set of actions say, let's go to the homepage of [indiscernible] and then we'll kind of pretend to be a normal user for a while, and then we'll go to the login page. We'll take some of those stolen credentials and put them in username and password. If we break in then we'll try and add a pay and transfer the money to new account. And I'll just keep doing that minute after minute, hour after hour, all day long. So what you're going to see when I click go is exactly that. That's [indiscernible], kicks up a browser. Now this is not the First Direct website [indiscernible], of course, [indiscernible] First Direct just for the purposes of the demo, we were going to mean things do. So this is our own website. So that's why it looks a little bit different. But basically, it's doing exactly, as I said, it's doing a series of things, which are just hiding in plain sight and showing a bit of interest in car insurance, messing around the mortgage [indiscernible]. Sooner or later, it gets to a login page. And now on the left here, this is typically a real-time log of what Celebrus is seeing that visitor do. That data has been catched in realtime. It's been evaluated in realtime using behavioral biometrics. So in a month all these detailed events are things that the visitors click on and where they navigate to all these little biometric risk indicators saying that Celebrus is evaluating this visitor and seeing if the machine learns as there's really something sketchy about this visitor that we need to raise the case, in that case management tool. what [indiscernible] is doing now is trying to pretend like a regular user, not progressing too fast. Computer bots tend to progress through certain parts of the site too quickly, which makes them very easy to spot. So it's kind of taken a sort of slightly [indiscernible] attitude working its way through the website. popping around a bit like users generally do, and actually, it hit jackpot. So in this particular example, it's guessed, the user name and password and it's got into account. And now what it's doing is going to have a pay and try and transfer some money. So at this point, of course, it is really having a good time. They found an account that they can compromise and they can start to figure out how to get money out of that account. The actual break in though was the hard bit of those 1 million different credentials, probably only 0.1% of them are actually valid for getting into any given bank that they found them just through that automated process. Meanwhile, back over in the hype is our management tool it's correctly spotted that an account has been [indiscernible]. And rather like I was saying with CEA, we often don't talk about Celebrus or show Celebrus much. We talked about is the website, First Direct and case management tool because those are the things that the customer really care about. The fact there's a bunch of [indiscernible] up in the middle that we're figuring all our [indiscernible] or there, what actually matters is what tool investigators are going to see and that's the case management tool. They're going to see this an account as been comprised. And in many of the banks that we deal with are quite small teams. You take the kind of 100 or 150 people dealing with fraud. That's really not the case. Often it's just 2 or 3 people. So [indiscernible] of like 50 bots positive today, they're just never going to be able to spot the legals on that. So it has to be accurate. And it has to be really [indiscernible] of which accounts have been compromised, those are small teams of people and actually kind of follow up in the right places. And that's why you absolutely need the best data. So that's it. CDI, Bot Detection. Any questions? Anything else [indiscernible].

Just to broad question around when you announced when used to be the FTP, I think you talked about finding partners in fraud management software. It looks like you've booked into case management. I just wondering kind of like that ecosystem because of the signals that you have [indiscernible] the sort of much useless, but they usually without sort of decisioning or actually get types of threat [indiscernible]. So I'm just wondering kind of how is that sort of ecosystem build out and perhaps that new customer, you've won, like [indiscernible]? Just curious.

Yes, those virtually just the question was more around like the vendor partner network with fraud and what that's shaping up like in organizations. It's going to sound a bit cruel, I suppose, that we don't care so much because what we found is it as we've evolved and I kind of alluded to, we've really evolved our pitch, even more stuff going into this year as we circle who presented a couple of years ago, our Capital Markets Day has kind of really engaged with customers. It varies so much from customer to customer, what they're using internally that it more matters about what we do and showing them things like this, bringing it to life in a more end-to-end scenario. They're able to paint the picture for. So we do have some other partners. We have folks that we continue to work with, like [indiscernible]. We have some others in the background that we're building, and we're exploring selling together with, and that will always continue to turn on. But we're not waiting on that. For us, the platform and the data that we can provide is working. Even in the Bot Detection, which is live, I think, is 4 clients right now, which for us is a lot in a short period of time since launch, right? So those of you that have followed us for a long time. They're seeing some pretty alarming results, upwards of 30% of their traffic being non-human that, for marketers, where they're potentially paying Google advertising, paying their agencies millions of dollars for some of their traffic. That's a significant return on investment just on turning our platform on because it gives them all the data they need to prove that the traffic is invalid and get various refunds or rebates or whatever the case may be for them. So for us, it's really interesting. We were with a head of fraud recently in one of our banks. And when he came into the room, he did not ask who we integrate with or anything like that. He goes, I have 2 questions for you that I care about. One, can you do this in real time in the moment, which that just exhibited. So we showed them that. He's like, great. Then, can I actually get the data? Because a lot of the platforms out there is black box. And when the environment is moving so quickly, when things are changing so quickly, a black box isn't helpful if what's inside that box is not looking in the right places, right? Because it may not pick up that, that was just the same exact product like browse on the same exact machine suddenly taken over by process. There are so many nuances to those things, the top quick that moves in the minute something gets published, [indiscernible] move on to doing something else. So you're in a constant game of catch-up, if you try to focus on that. So it's a bit more long winded, but I don't want to cover a few of those points because we are expanding partnerships. We're exploring that. We have consulting partners as well that we're working with in the fraud space, and we'll continue to do that. But for us, partnerships now -- it's about [indiscernible]. It's about having something that we can sell and bring to market together. It's not just a handshake to throw over those next to each other, right? So when we announce formal partnerships, it will be because there's formal business value use cases that we're selling in the market. The rest will just show up as low as on our website or in some of the collateral or in some of the videos or some of the demonstrations that we published that if that helps to make sense.

But you're agnostic to which sort of case of fraud management...

Absolutely, absolutely. What you're seeing here with [indiscernible] It kind of goes back to the selling. It's a really good example of what [indiscernible] team have done to support sales because, again, as we're selling direct, customers want to see end-to-end more. They don't just want to see the data because sometimes, unless you're really data savvy and you live and breathe it all day, like you might wonder how you're going to use, where it might feel overwhelm. So we've started to build these very specific demos that can be repeated by the sales team and the sales team can play this video, can explain it today to you, right? And the point being is it shows end-to-end value. It shows the data coming to life that helps people understand what that great tech that Celebrus adds to us. But to [indiscernible] point, we don't sell the tech. We're now selling the value in the pain point, right? And we're showing how it can be done. I'm not really -- we're not going in and tooting our own horn to talk about how great all the tech is that does it, right? Because then all we're doing is pontificating when we need to be selling, right? So it's a fundamental difference. So I love this example because it shows you some of the things that [indiscernible] team have innovated thinking outside the box on how we sell a value story of what we do in products because the minute we show that to anybody in the fraud department, they get -- we don't need to worry about their lingo because they will talk. The minute they see this, they just start talking. Our sales tax, we don't have them. We have like 3 slides that we keep just in case. We go straight into the product, showing things like this just to get them up and running. Because candidly, when we talk to people, if I was to sitting down for a 40-minute sales call, and I start to tell you all the things we do, you're going to think I am lying. Because it's -- you're going to think it's black magic or it's smoking [indiscernible]. You're not going to believe that it can do that. But the fact that we can demo it on the customer's website, show them what it will look like if they deploy this tomorrow using all fancy things that [indiscernible] team have built over the years. It's a really powerful statement. So we don't have sales tax anymore. We don't use it. We just go straight into conversations. We listen, we show them the tech. We see what [indiscernible]