Cenergy Holdings SA ($CENER)

Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon from Athens. I'm Alex Benos, the CFO of Cenergy Holdings, and I'd like to welcome you to today's live webcast of our company's 2026 Q1 condensed financial results. I would like first to highlight the main points of our Q1 of 2026. We had a very good start of the year with record margins. This exactly demonstrates the success of prioritizing value over volume. Demand is really strong. Demand is also structural and that underpins further growth for our companies for the rest of the year and in the medium term. The first key highlight I would like to stress is that operational profitability surpassed EUR 100 million. It is actually equal to EUR 100.4 million due to a very favorable product mix of cable projects, which are heavily tilted towards offshore cables for Q1. Revenue growth is moderate, 5% increase over the corresponding first quarter of 2025, a total of EUR 511 million as the new capacity of land cables that we have developed in both the Thiva factory and the Eleonas factory are gradually coming into play. The backlog is "still stable." I would put that word in quotes, around EUR 3.3 billion and I will explain in a while why I do put it in quotes because that may give the wrong signal to you and to the rest of the investment community. The fourth point is that our strategic investments in the U.S. and the U.K. are developing as originally planned and I'll give you some more information on both of these. Margins are at record level at 19.7% for the group with the steel pipes segment still surprising us positively. The margins are expected, of course, to normalize by year-end. And when I mean normalize -- when I say normalized, I mean that we are expecting them to be 1 to 2 percentage points lower and I'll get -- I'll give you an explanation for that too. Net profit reached EUR 74 million, a very strong number for a first quarter and earnings of EUR 0.35 per share. We also confirm guidance of EUR 370 million to EUR 400 million adjusted EBITDA for 2026. As pointed earlier, the performance -- okay. Here you are. The performance is very solid for the first quarter. If you look at turnover, all first quarters have a positive increase in sales. Adjusted EBITDA is increasing by around 30% -- more than 30% from the corresponding Q1s of previous years. The same thing happens for EBITDA without the adjustments. So the number that includes one-offs, the difference this year comes from a positive metal result. Here, we have increases of more than 45% year-on-year and PBT as well as profit after tax also increased by more than 70% year-on-year for the last 2 years. So these are very strong results, which are due overall to an improved sales mix. Now if we take a magnifying glass, I would say, and we look at the quarters, the last 4 quarters plus Q1 of 2026. Let's look at what we observe on our screen right now. Our business really is a seasonal one. And when I say seasonal, it's not because it depends on good or bad weather, but because we are an energy projects enabler and these contracts that we execute have, in a sense, their own life cycle. Usually, the year will start slowly. Q2 will be a little bit stronger. I'm talking about profitability. Then the pace will pick up, then Q3 is usually slightly slower due to the summer. I remind you that we are selling -- our geographies of sales are mainly Northern Europe and North America. And Q4 is coming strong as clients rush to close the projects delivered to them, but also to secure capacity for the coming year. 2025 was almost like this with the Q4 being a little bit slower, not as strong as we expected it, but still a very strong one. This year, Q1 surprised us very positively. It shows an abnormally high percentage of offshore projects in the cables revenue. And these projects, as you all know, contribute margins above 20% for the segment's revenue, while the Corinth Pipeworks company, our steel pipe segment, continues to have high EBITDA projects in their backlog and they continue to execute them. So the 19.7% margin that we observed in quarter 1 of this year is expected to go down, go back to a more normal level of 17% plus as land cable projects will pick up execution in Thiva and Eleonas, both do have this extra capacity added throughout the previous 2 years. You remember that investment cycle mostly finished by December '25. And these land cable projects, they contribute to our cables revenue, but with lower margins than the offshore ones. Therefore, the average number that we will get out will get back to a lower level -- to a less extreme level, I would say. Turning to backlog. Backlog is a very interesting number because it might give you -- if you look at its "stability" in quotes, I put this word, it may give you a wrong impression, a wrong message. First, I would like to stress that there have been 2 projects awarded and disclosed in Q1, one in Poland and one in the Netherlands. Alliander is one of the major distribution operators of the country. The total backlog is EUR 2.7 billion in cables and another EUR 600 million in steel pipes for a total of EUR 3.3 billion. It remains very well diversified, both in geographies and in energy applications. You see that we are not really serving only interconnections or only CCS or only Europe for steel pipes. We do have a diversified backlog portfolio. But still, we expect that backlog to increase considerably by year-end. And why is that? There are 2 reasons. The first reason is that there is a very strong tendering in the cables market, both in offshore with numbers being estimated above EUR 5 billion for the rest of the year as well as onshore with the corresponding amount there being over around EUR 3 billion. Cables, Hellenic Cables has already been picked as an exclusive supplier of 2 important projects. But since these contracts have not yet been signed, we do not include them in our backlog. So that's the first reason for an expectation of a higher backlog by the end of the year. The second reason is that there are other projects that we have already agreed with our clients and either they depend -- their final investment decision depends on funding from the client, I would just mention here the success that we are expecting from the share capital increase of the [ TSO ] in Greece or the client is not allowing us yet to disclose the project because the final signature with his financial institutions are not over. So we are very confident that by the end of the year, we will show a significantly higher backlog. The potential for further increase is there and will materialize in the quarters to come. That is why we are -- we want to give you some information and to show you the development of our international expansion. First of all, starting from the Maryland factory, the U.S. factory. I remind you, we are now building a land cables facility in Baltimore, Maryland. The rationale behind it stays the same and even became stronger in the last year. The rationale is that you have very strong fundamentals in the USA. These fundamentals can be described by different factors, the hardening of the grid, new interconnections which are necessary, the proliferation of data storage and data centers, the fact that more than 70% of the U.S. grid is older than 25 years old, the damage which is caused very often by storms in the United States and the different studies from research centers that show the electricity demand hiking up by more than 25% until 2030. All of these strong megatrends in the U.S. find behind them a very strong support by the U.S. policy. I am mentioning here the famous BABA Act, Build America and Buy American, which supports all direct investments in the country and it leads to a very strong and powerful momentum. The Princeton study has concluded that the transmission capacity in the U.S. necessary until 2050 should be more than 3x what is existent right now. And another study by McKinsey has actually found out that we expect more than 2x the current spending for electricity transmission by 2030. So this is a very positive macroeconomic background fundamental growth. The U.S. is a very scattered market. Just to give you an idea of how scattered it is, there exists in the U.S. more than 2,000 publicly owned utilities to which one can add around 800 cooperative utilities. I'm talking just for electricity and the largest ones, which are another 170 of what the Americans call investor-owned utilities, meaning utilities that have shareholders widely spread. So we are talking about more than 3,000 different utilities, different DSOs and TSOs compared to the 2 that we have in Greece or to a handful that most European countries have. To that number, we should add that the electricity market in the U.S. has a lot of market participants. When I talk about market participants, we mean distributors of electricity, developers of renewables, installers of the grid, consultants around the electricity market, EPC contractors. And all of these have several modes of interaction with the cable or accessory suppliers. So it is not an easy market to be. It's not an easy market to grasp. At the same time, it's a very promising market. Data centers definitely represent a strategic growth opportunity for us. The demand is expected to grow more than 2.5x until 2030. And the Maryland plant is really located at the epicenter of this growth on the East Coast, close to Vermont and the other states where most of the data centers are now being built. That's why our local commercial team is very active on the field across all the channels I mentioned just before, so that our capacity addition is already very eagerly anticipated by the market participants. Now as for the funding, the funding, as you all know, is secured until the end of 2026. We may have limited overruns in 2027 since the inflation -- just the inflation impact over these 2 years from the time the share capital increase was realized until now has surpassed 10% to 12%. Plus the scope has a little bit changed in our factory. We want to make it ready to receive some extra capacity, if necessary, in the future. And the time line that we are looking for that plant is that by the end of '26, we'll start the installation of machinery and equipment. First quarter of '27 to produce samples for certification. I remind you that the local U.S. certification for cables is indispensable, is you cannot do -- otherwise, you cannot really sell cables in the U.S. if you are not certified according to their own local specs. And finally, we expect that by the fourth quarter of '27, the substantial part of the factory will be completed. So what is really the -- not the unknown point, but the point on which we are making -- we are putting all our efforts right now, it is staffing. And the staffing plan is very active. For such a factory, we will need highly qualified and specialized operators as well as technicians. And these guys, even when we will find them, we need some training to be able to produce the high-quality cables that we are producing also in Greece. Turning to the other strategic investment that was realized in the last days of the Q1. The acquisition of the facility of steel pipes in Hartlepool in the U.K. Hartlepool is close to the Newcastle. To Newcastle, it's in the Durham county. We are talking about a 100-year-old legacy plant that has served the steel community of the U.K. very well in these last 100 years. We're talking about an acquisition of the facility in the equipment, which came very cheap, around GBP 10 million for a complete production line and LSAW production line with the competent workforce with it. Of course, it's a factory that needs optimization, that needs to be put back to operation since for the last 9 months, it was idle. But that facility has been and continues to be a trusted supplier of majors in the oil business like Shell, BP and so on and can also support U.K.'s projects in carbon capture. So for the local market, since we are now satisfying the local content clause of the U.K., it will be a very positive addition. It can also play a globally important role for projects, especially on the other side of the Atlantic since it gives our steel pipe segment a second plan with an LSAW line of production, which is really important. I remind you, LSAW is really used in the high-margin, high-value projects and pipelines because they are the pipes that are best for high pressure, therefore, thick wall characteristics for large diameter, for structurally demanding applications and pipes that are highly reliable. That's why they are preferred as a solution for all the major projects around the globe. So what is in front of us right now? Where -- what are we looking at for the rest of the year? In the cable segment, the geopolitics that are right now running in the globe and especially the war between Iran and the U.S., they support really further growth for us. What do I mean by that? I mean that in such an uncertain environment, the resilience of infrastructure is very important. We already have a backlog which gives us visibility until 2029. So let's see how that global geopolitical turmoil might add to that backlog and might add to that growth in cables. First of all, subsea interconnectors are not anymore viewed as energy projects. They are viewed as strategic infrastructure assets. And we have large PSO transmission service operators in Europe progressing with their plans of interconnection of electricity. And there are new private projects, so connecting individual countries in Europe, we're talking about Greece, Egypt here, cable and so on, which are being proposed. Let's not forget that the Greek IPTO/ADMIE's 10-year development plan talks about EUR 7.5 billion worth of projects. We go to offshore wind. Offshore wind have been mixed in the past year. Certain European countries have experienced delays because of permitting, because of auction redesigns and so on. But the medium- to long-term outlook remains very strong. We have the Hamburg declaration, that additional 300 gigawatts of offshore wind capacity by 2050. And a lot of European countries, France, Denmark, the Netherlands, among others, are moving towards new offshore wind auctions in 2026. Then we're talking about land cables. Now land cables, the demand for medium voltage remains very robust, especially because of the need to take -- to continue the general electrification trend in urban and suburban areas by the European distribution operators. There is also a build-out of data centers across Europe, not as strong as the U.S., but starting to show its growth opportunity. In that part of the market, we are also thinking about the levy as the Greek regulator 5 years investment plan, which amounts to almost EUR 5 billion. The major trend, however, behind all the rapid expansion in cables are the artificial intelligence and hyperscale data centers, mostly in the U.S., but also starting in a promising way in Europe. I gave you the numbers about the estimates of McKinsey and also estimates by other consultants. The number, however, which is expected by -- in 2026 by the major hyperscalers in the U.S., I'm talking about Amazon, Microsoft and Meta, we are -- they are discussing numbers around $600 billion in new data center infrastructure. And this infrastructure already translates into significantly higher electricity demand in the U.S. These hyperscale data centers can exceed 100 megawatts of capacity and they involve several hundred kilometers of medium- and low-voltage power cable within a single data center, within a single hyperscale data center. Europe is slowing -- is moving a little bit slower. The direction is there as well. It's clearly the same. It will come a little bit later, that's for sure. But it is also very clear that electricity demand driven by AI is a long-term structural driver actually for both our segments since there are now, as we are talking, plans of building natural gas pipelines towards the centers where this data infrastructure is being built in order to have exclusive power generation for the data centers. So it's a very, very positive background for cables in the future. I should also mention here a positive development, which is that both the EU and the U.K. have taken measures against the unfair Asian competition. And this is important for us because as I stressed many times in the past, Cenergy and its companies are not afraid of competition. They have shown that they can actually play in that game and be very successful in it. We are all, however, worried about unfairness in that competitive game. And the measures by the EU and the U.K. are definitely a positive step in the good direction. Turning to the steel pipes. Steel pipes, we should, first of all, reiterate the fact that natural gas still plays an important role. It's important to have secure and diversified supply routes, particularly for Europe, especially now that other routes of fossil fuel distribution may be closed for some time. There is a significant wave of new LNG export capacity in the U.S., a lot of projects in the U.S. for that, but also in other countries. Across North America, the estimated investment pipeline exceeds EUR 50 billion and it is driven by that LNG exports. The most well-known example or at least the widest, the most -- the widest distributed examples in the media is the famous Alaska LNG pipeline project where Corinth Pipeworks is already a preferred supplier. I stress here that this is also not in our backlog since the final investment decision has not been officially signed as we speak. Then we have the carbon capture market. The carbon capture market is in a scale-up phase. The expectation of the International Energy Association forecasts EUR 80 billion of investment globally over the next 5 years. That is a 15% to 20% estimated annual growth rate throughout 2030. And we see that a lot of projects are starting in the U.S. and Europe. And it is a very good opening for us, especially for our U.K. facility since the U.K. is very active in such projects. Finally, hydrogen. Hydrogen is still gradual. It's not really as developed as it was expected 5 years ago. But there is some positive movement. In Germany, we have several onshore backbone initiatives coming into play. There are also offshore infrastructure plans being discussed, the most famous one being the Barcelona-Marseille subsea hydrogen pipeline between Spain and France. We are present there. I remind you that CPW was the first -- globally, the first company certified for high-pressure 100% hydrogen-ready steel pipes. And in the more traditional market outlook, we do have strong demand for large outer diameter pipes. These are the ones used for natural gas. We have steel quotas that will help our market. They are positive, the fact that you have steel quotas for Europe. CBAM may also contribute as a barrier of entry mostly, not directly as a competitive advantage or disadvantage. We are, therefore, talking about a thriving market, but a very competitive market at the same time. The good thing is that Corinth Pipeworks is a top Tier 1 supplier in that market and it is one of the 2 or 3 pipe suppliers in the world which are considered able, capable of delivering high sophistication, difficult, high-value projects. And this is very positive for us. As for guidance, we have decided not to update our guidance despite the very strong results of Q1. Now should this trend persist in Q2, we'll come back with that in the June 30 results, which are due in the beginning of August. So here is the finding, new financial calendar that I would like to show you. We have the 3 days 22nd to 24th of June, all the dates related to the dividend payment. Then in the beginning of August, we have our H1 results. And on the 16th of September, we will have our interim report for that -- for the 6-month period. Then in November, Q3 and next year, will be the yearly results for 2026. This concludes my short presentation on the trading update for Q1 '26. And I'm turning now the floor back to the operator of Euronext Athens for the Q&A session.

[Operator Instructions]

I see there is Mr. Marios Bourazanis, who has already -- he wants to ask a question. Marios, you have the floor.

Just a couple of questions on my side. So we saw that the reported EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA had quite a large gap. And I was just wondering if you could help us bridge the difference between the 2 in Q1 and if this was mainly related to metal price effects following the...

Absolutely. Absolutely, Marios. This is just metal result. So there's nothing else. There's metal results, EUR 14 million. Positive. It's all a question of difference in the price at which you have metal in your inventory and the price at which you can -- you have to accountingly -- well, actually provide for it in an accounting way. That's it.

That's very clear. And just a follow-up -- given the very strong Q1, I was just wondering how we should think about the EBITDA guidance for the full year? If you see that there is any scope for performance to move closer to what you had previously communicated as a medium-term ambition of EUR 380 million to EUR 420 million EBITDA, assuming that execution goes smooth?

Yes. This is -- I think you understand that it is -- definitely, it's where we are going right now. But given the uncertainty surrounding the markets, we decided not to rush into an update of the guidance and to keep you a little bit on your feet for the next 3 months. It's not a question of our performance. It's more of a question of the surrounding factors, the external factors. So we would like to see that this positive momentum still goes on for Q2 and then really to move, as you very correctly said, towards the previously midterm ambition that we had communicated in the end of '24, absolutely. But let's wait to see what will happen. Marios, we had this news that everything would end by today, the war today. And then you have the U.S. attacking Iran again. So you never know what will happen from one day to the other. So we prefer to remain a little bit cautious and to see that this positive momentum realizes also in Q2. Then there is Mr. Thijs Berkelder for his question. Thijs, you have the floor. We cannot hear you, at least I cannot hear you. Hello, maybe it's a problem of the microphone. In the meantime, in order not to lose time, I give the floor to Mr. Efstathios Kaparis.

Congrats on the strong set of results. I'm trying to understand the margin a bit better. Based on what you say, of course, the mix -- subsea mix has been really, really strong in Q1. Now thinking about what you said that going ahead and by the end of the year, we'll still have a 17% plus margin, I'm trying to understand, given that the mix -- in theory, the mix of land cables is going to increase given that Thiva is entering gradually this year. By the end of the year, you guided for 17% plus, which is still meaningfully above last year's -- at least last 3 quarters, which were hovering around 17%. So the question is, where are the improvements coming from? And are they sustainable? How do we think about it?

Of course, no, you're right. So Q1 had a very high percentage of offshore cables in revenue. So if you had a revenue of 100, the percentage of offshore was very high. As you get Thiva in the game, Q2, Q3 and Q4 with margins which are lower than the 20-plus we're observing in the offshore projects, this will come down. The margins of onshore cables are clearly first of all, medium voltage for utilities will be around 13%, 14%. And medium voltage for offshore wind, so-called inter-arrays are a little bit higher. But still, the percentage of land cables will be higher at the end of the year, which means that I will be adding percentage-wise projects that have a lower margin to something which is really -- which is at around 19%, around 20% right now, 19.5%. This means that by the end of the year, it will come down. It doesn't mean that the margins of the land cables are in the -- they are not in the 1 digit, in single-digit area. We are talking about medium voltage. The capacity expansion in Thiva was in medium voltage and high-voltage land. So they are indeed strong, good, high-value works. Therefore, that's why when you do the calculation, we have our own expectations of how these percentages of revenue will adjust throughout the year, we see a decrease of the margin. But still, it's a very high margin. I'm just mentioning that, Stathios, because I don't want the market and the investment community to fixate on 20% margin for the rest of the year. It will not be there. It will gradually come down normally to a high level, but normally down. Why will it be higher than last year? Because we have new capacity and projects with over demand that allow us to charge even for land cables a little bit more than we were charging previously. The revenue of 2025 comes from projects awarded in 2023, right? So as you evolve, you get higher and higher value of projects. But this is one part of the equation. The important factor here in that averaging is the weight of the 2, of offshore versus onshore.

Yes, but it's still impressive. The actual question was, if you compare Q4 to Q4, and you answered that Q4 '25 to Q4 '26 expected, you get the margin expansion clearly because the market is so healthy and you charge like-for-like, you select the good projects, et cetera. Can you -- sense for the...

Mr. Berkelder, are you -- you have now the -- you have the floor. Thijs, you have the floor. I can't hear him. We cannot hear you. I don't know if it's a problem, but we cannot hear you, Thijs.

Congrats with the Q1 results, Alexandro. First question is on do you see any impact on your operations from recent Middle East events in a direct and maybe indirect manner? Then on future projects, you said you expect first HVDC project to land this year. Is it logical to then think of IPTO as logically maybe the first customer there? Or is it with Eleonas delivering its high-end vessels this year, is there already any sight on a national grid project nearby? Then third question is on Corinth Pipeworks at Hartlepool. Do you need to make additional investments there? If so, for roughly how much? And/or do you need to fully go into recruitment mode again to have a staff base there working for you?

Okay. So starting from the Middle East war actually. No, we do not see any operational impact, at least in what we have not really implicated in that area of the world. A couple of years back, we had some small pipe -- steel pipes projects there. We don't have any projects that are -- need supply of products in that area. But of course, we do is we try to secure our raw material in a better way so that for the first 3, 4 months, we have increased a little bit our inventories so that we can keep the production lines going in the very unprobable case that we will have some short supply chain disruptions. But apart from that, no other operational impact. Now for the future, you're talking the second point. Yes, it is most probable that the first BC project will come from IPTO. National Grid, we are suppliers, but we do not have yet a signal or a signal of an award to us on that frame contract. The most probable is that Greek IPTO will be giving us some of the projects that they are about to tender. Of course, that will be clearer once their own share capital increase is complete. For Hartlepool, we do not really need any new personnel. The personnel, I would say 150 to 160 people is more than enough. The personnel and -- the personnel is more than enough and the personnel is really -- they are competent. They are -- they want to go back to work. So that's not the point. Clearly, we will need some CapEx because the -- a), the factory has not been working, has not been operational for the last 9 months. So you need some maintenance CapEx, cleaning oils, lubricants and so on. And also maybe a small CapEx to upgrade -- to introduce or upgrade the coating facility of the plant. But these are in the areas of maximum EUR 6 million, EUR 7 million. So adding to what we have already spent on the facility, which is GBP 10 million or EUR 11 million, I'm not seeing something more than EUR 20 million at the end of the year. These are strategic, of course, investments that will allow us to grasp the growth opportunity in England, of projects in England, but also support some cross-Atlantic projects that may come up in the future. So not more than the EUR 20 million overall, including the purchase of the facility. I go now back to some written questions. There is a question by Mrs. Fani Tzioukalia. Would it be possible to provide some color on revenue evolution in first Q '26 as well as the backlog mix going forward? And how do I see the margin evolving for the rest of the year? I think the latter part was more or less answered through my answer to Mr. Bourazanis. The color -- the revenue evolution for '26, I would say that, that's why I said that the Pipeworks, the Corinth Pipeworks segment continues to surprise us because its revenue -- one could say that it was almost flat. And despite that, we had a very strong first quarter with a net EBITDA, which is not close, but actually exactly what was needed for the full year results of CPW. And since I had -- in the past, I was expressing a little bit of cautiousness on where these margins will go, we are really very positively surprised by the fact that without some important revenue evolution year-on-year for steel pipes, we do have a good -- well, I wouldn't call it significant, but a good positive increase in the profitability. Then there is a couple of questions on -- by Mr. [ Mezepatios ]. The first question is, do we consider distributing an interim dividend for this year? The answer is no, we do not consider distributing an interim dividend. Dividend policy will be decided at the end of the year, taking into account the developments of the U.S. and the U.K. and the profitability of next year as well as other opportunities that may arise until then. And his second question is, could we give -- could I give some color on the inventory gains this quarter? I believe you mean [indiscernible], the metal result -- metal result -- positive metal results. It's -- we do not really have expectations of that. So I cannot really tell you what should we expect in 2026. All of our forecasts are built on a 0 metal result, which means that the adjusted EBITDA and the EBITDA should be the same. So that was a positive result this quarter. From the unhedged metal inventories, which are there in order to continue to secure production, next quarter, it might be a little bit negative. These are just accounting losses or gains. So we are not really founding or basing our profitability forecast on the metal result on that one-off points. There is a question by [ Theodore Ezarlus ] on the volume pricing mix dynamics in the cable and in the steel pipes. I would say that in steel pipes, we -- most of the dynamics in revenue comes from pricing. Volumes are -- will come -- came in '25, we should have some increase in '26, but it is not that important. It may be in the low double digits. Still, Theodore, we are not putting our interest -- we're not putting -- we're not taking so much care of the top line. The steel pipe segment is really playing a very important top producer role globally, is keeping -- its focus is on keeping that Tier 1 label and its focus is on being on the -- sitting at the same table with the major oil and gas producers around the world and getting orders and awards for difficult and therefore, high-value projects of steel pipes of pipelines. And that's what we will continue to do for the rest of the year. As for the cables business, the cables business, we definitely have higher volumes. Since we have -- as I mentioned, we have Thiva and in Q3, Eleonas coming in more dynamically. The price may have some impact as well. But as you see, we are calculating our margins on current revenue. So we are not really adjusting for the revenue without the metal price change. And as metal prices for the last 3, 4, even 5 years have gone up, the denominator, the number on which we are calculating these margins has increased considerably, I would say. Still, our margins have also increased considerably. Therefore, we don't want to introduce factors of -- that may bring some shadows in and out of the presentation. The dynamics of cables is very positive, again, in terms of profitability. But since we have increased capacity in the last 2.5, 3 years, there will also be an important part, an important impact of volume effect as well. Then there is a written question by Mr. -- you will -- excuse me if I don't read your name correctly, [ Martin Feya Decasin ], said that we stated that Cenergy expects a strong order intake in the remainder of the year, particularly for cables resulting in a backlog markedly higher than at the end of March 31st. The envisaged order intake at cable will be more or less equally divided across the board or more geared towards one of the 3 segments, interconnections, wind offshore and other? No, it will be more geared towards interconnections and frame agreements. These are the large projects that we are expecting right now. Any more oral questions from the participants? No. I then read a third question by Mr. Berkelder. Having or hearing your comments with U.S. should expect lower margins in Q2 than in Q1? Yes, and no because that gradual -- gradual entry of land cables will be towards H2, not only H1. But yes, there will be a slightly maybe lower margin in Q2. Will it be higher than last year Q2? That's -- I cannot really answer that question, Thijs. It's all a question of what is realized in voice and so on. What I can really tell you is that you have some revenue growth in Q2, as you correctly state, that will be higher than Q1 as the mid-voltage land lines come in. Now whether the exact number will be 17.8%, 17.9% or 18.1%, it is very hard to answer. I believe the message here is that we are focusing on value over volume. This is very clear in our strategy for the last 3 to 4 years. It has paid up very well. We continue that as our guiding principle. And we continue on our basic delivering of value to all of our stakeholders, whether they are clients, they are shareholders, they are employees and staff. That's the important point. Cenergy will try in the years to come to continue delivering high-quality products and high value, sustainably high value for its stakeholders. I see there is no other question or we can -- yes, there is no other question. So I believe if there's no other question, we could end our Q1 trading update presentation. I thank all of you for your presence and I give -- we take an appointment for the beginning of August, maybe in your shorts next to the beach for our -- your shorts, not our shorts, we will not be wearing shorts, in beginning of August for our H1 financial results. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for your attention, and have a nice afternoon.