Chegg, Inc. (CHGG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the third day of the 24th Annual Needham Growth Conference. I'm Ryan MacDonald, I lead our ad tech research efforts here at Needham. And it's my pleasure to be joined by Chegg's CFO, Andy Brown today. We're going to do a 40-minute fireside chat cover a lot of topics. But for those listening in, if you have any questions, please feel free to input them in the chat box, and we'll make sure to get them asked and answered in the last 10 minutes or so. But we've got a lot to cover, so we'll jump right in. Andy, thanks for joining in.

It's a pleasure and happy new year to everybody.

Happy New Year indeed. So we're going to do the obligatory for those who don't know, maybe give a brief overview of what Chegg is and who Chegg is.

Well, that's probably a very few people. So I'll try and keep it human because I think most people know who we are. We are the leader in my opinion, and I think most people would agree in the direct-to-student learning market for students. And where we have differentiated ourselves over many, many years versus what I'll call the traditional education companies is that we decided to create a large -- go direct to student and create a large brand. And then when you -- when you look at Chegg today in simple terms, we're a subscription-based platform. We have multiple properties. A lot of folks talk about Chegg Study but we have Chegg Study. We have Mathway. We have on writing tools properties like EasyBib. We literally have tens of millions of students across the globe that come to our sites on a monthly basis. We have millions of subscribers. We can talk about that. And while most of those students historically have been in the U.S., they're increasingly more coming outside the U.S. And so we've we joke a lot of the time inside the company that pretty much like Google has become a verb. More broadly, you googled it. Chegg has pretty much become a verb, particularly in the U.S. People say they chegged it. So that's the type of brand we have created, the affinity we've created with our students. And we've -- I was reminding my boss, Dan Rosensweig, a few days ago that we made some pretty bold statements about 7 years ago, I think, around our financial performance regarding Chegg Services and our EBITDA margins and back then, our Chegg Services revenues were $94 million, and our EBITDA was $5 million. And so Chegg has become Chegg as it weren't, right, where we're multi-hundred million dollars and greater than 30 points of EBITDA margin. And so that's the company we have become. And what we -- in what it really illustrates is how the education industry has changed. And we have been a change agent in the sense that we're clearly focused on the student and much of education is more focused around other things other than direct to the students. So I'll get off myself, box, that's Chegg, and we love what we're doing for students.

Perfect. Love the overview. So let's jump into the news of the day then. The company announced a new learning platform learn with Chegg today. And at least at my first read, it looked like it's going to be a way for you to be more proactively engaging with your existing subscriber base added some analytics to suggest topics that they should look at based off of what their core load is, but why don't you enlighten the audience about what learn with Chegg is going to be?

Yes, I'd love to. And we announced this morning a learn with Chegg. And it's -- I'd say it's new platform. It's the new modern Chegg, right, as it were versus the old Chegg. And maybe just a little bit of history here. When Chegg -- the core of Chegg Study started 12 years ago, when we acquired a company called Cramster. And Cramster and then Chegg Study was textbook solutions. And so it was the whole site was around textbooks, right, Textbook Solutions, our textbooks. And so the core of the platform, while it has evolved over time, was still the car of it was around textbooks. And we recognized in talking to our students for many years and is that just not the way they view the world anymore. And textbooks truth be told, it become less relevant in learning. Let's just be clear. And so this has been a 2-year development. It's something we talked about on the last earnings call when we talked about the greater personalization of the platform. We started rolling it out in the fall. It's now fully rolled out. And for those of you that are on the line, if you haven't -- you can go to chegg.com our investor website and then see the press release. But more importantly, because I know I've had several questions in the breakout sessions with respect to what does it do and how does it do differently? Go to the video. It's a 4- to 5-minute video. It's really helpful understanding how personalized the experience is, how it brings in other things other than just academic learning, the access to skills, the access to Chegg Life, which is something other than learning because their needs of the students aren't just about their educational needs as they're being educated. Those life things are experiences that they want help with. And so that's what we announced. It was something we started in the fall, and we believe it's taken the platform to another level. The intent of doing this was obviously to make it more useful for students. But ultimately, we believe it increases -- we know it increases engagement, but we saw that right away. But ultimately, what you want with increased engagement is increased retention. In other words, staying on the platform longer. Now we believe that's what it will do. That's what it showed in our testing, but that's something that you measure over a period of time, right? For us, when we look at retention, it's just not month 1 or month 2, it's over a longer period of time. We're still staying on for that extra week or that extra month, whatever it may be. And that's something that we'll measure over time. But certainly, for the students that we've already rolled it out to, it looks super encouraging.

And just to clarify, so it's available or it's been available throughout the fall to all Chegg subscribers. There's no difference on how you price the product or anything like that.

No, no, this is remaining -- taking Chegg what you knew a year ago to a different level, different orientation. It's not a -- I got the question asked on the last call. Is it a new product? How do you price it? No, it's not a new product. It's taking what we had and making it more accessible, easier to use, more personalized for our students. That's what is there. That's what we have done. It's been a 2-year development. It's been a massive development inside the company, and we believe it puts us on a path for having a platform that's -- that we can grow on top of for the next, call it, the next 10 years versus the last 10 years.

Got it. Got it. Now we'll be looking forward to seeing -- hearing about those engagement numbers as it matures within the user base for sure over time. Let's shift gears and talk a bit about third quarter earnings. So third quarter numbers were obviously very good. It came in to go up consensus. But obviously, the fourth quarter outlook, not where you were expecting it or hoping it would be off of some churn and maybe some changing patterns within student usage as we return back to the campus this fall. Can you remind us -- tell us a little bit more about what those issues were and what sort of Chegg experience within its subscriber base that led to sort of the lower-than-expected outlook for fourth quarter?

Yes. Well we're -- it's really kind of been an interesting time because we typically see -- we have to report on it first, most of the time as a publicly traded company. But what we said at the time was there were 2 elements to the headwinds we saw that compounded themselves. One was the decline in enrollments over the last 2 years, right? We've seen the enrollments over the last 2 years have declined more in the last 2 years than they have the last 50 years, probably in the higher ed space, probably 2 million to 3 million kids that are no longer in the system than they were maybe 2 or 3 years ago. And that in itself wouldn't have been a problem. But as students out of COVID came back on to campus, what we -- and that's -- and by the way, the enrollment declines wouldn't account for the type of headwinds we've seen. So it got -- it was a little confusing to us. And so then the question becomes -- became was, okay, so what else is happening? And so we went to -- the beauty is we've got a very robust marketing team that can go in and we can talk to -- we call them Chegg heads, go in and find out what's really happening at the student level. And what we found was really 3 things. One is students on average are taking. The kids that are going back to school, taking less classes, taking easier classes and getting less assignments. And therefore, they need -- they're few students that's in real simple terms, fewer students that need less help. And it's interesting because I know we had a -- there was quite a few folks that were kind of skeptical about all of that, and are we losing share to our competitors and things like that. And there's been multiple reports over the last -- since our last earnings call, which is 2.5 months ago, that have shown that all B2C properties out there have seen the same trends. Some -- there was a recent report that came out that showed exactly the same thing, and these are not publicly reported companies because they're private, but Quizlet and Course Hero it's all the same trends. And we're actually faring maybe a little bit better than most. But the same core industry headwinds are there and have been there for B2C. And so the question then becomes is when does that change, right? It's like that's when do enrollments go up? And when does student behaviors change? And it's our belief that enrollments change on an annual basis. And that's certainly, since I've been at the company, I've been at the company, I'm in my 11th year. Enrollment trends change in the fall. And so does that -- the question then becomes, does it change in the fall of this year? And what have we seen? Well, we don't do any surveying of that. There's a lot of other companies that do that. Have we seen some encouraging signs? Yes, because we've seen several reports that say in applications run. Whether or not that translates into enrollments in the fall, don't know. But that's certainly a better trend than applications being down. Let's just put it that way.

It didn't in 2021, that's for sure.

Exactly.

Enrollment is down. Yes.

Exactly. We're almost out Yes. exactly. So we don't know. So one of the things we think more likely changes in the shorter term, and that is the dynamic we saw with students, less classes, easier classes, less assignments. And so that is something that we're in the field with like we were in the fall now in the spring. The spring is just very early on, and we'll get a better sense for that. But there's no doubt that trend has to stop either that -- either -- or either 1 or 2 things happens. First thing is kids take forever to finish all. or the second thing is they never graduate because they don't take the hard classes that wherever required to graduate. So those trends will change. And so we -- our fundamental belief is these are fairly temporary. The core thesis that more and more education materials and education period is going to be online. The core thesis hasn't changed. Industries always have -- over a period of time, we'll have headwinds and tailwinds. We're in a little bit of a headwind right now, but this will pass, and we fundamentally believe that online education is a growth area, and we're a leader in that area.

Yes. I'm curious, a question I get from investors a lot is you've built such a great track record of growth over the years. Do you still have confidence in the visibility of the -- I guess, of the business and into the subscriber base after what happened in the third quarter here?

Yes, we do. We -- there's -- in any year, what happens with any year is that when we roll into the new year, the first half is pretty certain. Let's just be clear, right? By the time we gave our guidance in February, the vast majority of the spring rush is done. And so that basically says Q1 and Q2 are effectively done. I mean, I don't know how else to put it, right? It's not going to change much. And then there's always a variable in the fall. The enrollment variable in itself wouldn't have been an issue for us, truth be told. And 2% or 3% down in enrollment. The bigger one -- and so as we come in -- and historically, when we've gone into the fall, it's always going to be typically plus or minus 1% or 2%, right? Not a big deal. The 2-year compounded effect had an issue this past year, but the student behavior thing was the one that was relatively new to us. We do think that, that fundamentally goes away. And like I said, these are temporary headwinds we're all facing. We'll -- the industry will get through this. We're continuing to make the investments that we think are necessary whether it be international, whether it be versus all of the things that we can talk about, if you want to is up to you. So we're not changing our investment profile. We're getting those investments. The tailwinds will happen. And once they do, we'll be best positioned to take advantage of the growth.

Absolutely. Now Omicron is obviously top of mind for investors today. And while we can't really go into the impact that you're currently seeing in quite period, can you talk and remind investors about sort of the impact you saw to the business from the pandemic? And really, did you see any difference in usage trends versus sort of the first wave of the pandemic versus Delta variant at all on that level?

No. Help us say it. And it's really hard for us to determine, particularly in the U.S., how much of the -- how much of what happened with the pandemic was pandemic induced and how much of it was actually Chegg induced in the sense that we started doing -- we started implementing account sharing measures, right? The device management and the MFA technologies or multifactor authentication, just to make sure I get the acronyms spelled out. hard to tell. I'm guessing it would be a combination of both. And -- but as far as the difference between the original variant and then the Delta variant and then what Omicron is doing, it's really hard for us to assess that. Do we think Omicron is having an impact? Well, do we think we know Omicron is having an impact on how schools are operating, right? You're seeing a lot of schools that's not shutting down for the whole semester, but for the first 2 or 3 weeks of a semester. We saw, I think, the earliest one that got announced locally was Stamford just down the road and the UC system here did that. And so those are -- and I think it's been more widely adopted, but it will last have a fundamental impact on our business. I don't think so because I think we're now at a point in the education system where there's so few on-campus help anyways that the students are looking to services like Chegg to help them. So I don't see that as being at least in my mind, a big driver.

International expansions obviously continue to be a real strength for the company throughout 2021. You moved direct marketing investments in targeted countries outside the U.S. and you're able to surpass 1 million subscribers ahead of your expectations? Can you talk about some of the strategies that you implemented that really were quite effective in being able to hit those targets early?

Yes. Well, first thing is we focused on international, right? We started actually -- we had -- up until 2 years ago, we had some international students, but a term we use inside the company brilliant by accident, it was kind of like brilliant by accident. We didn't market or even intend to go after international students, they just found us because we're an Internet property. But a couple of years ago, we started focusing on it whether it be marketing, whether it be localized currency. But we're just at the beginning of our international expansion. And to some extent, we're fighting the battle with one arm tied behind our back right now. So we think -- when I think 5 years from now, do I think we'll be much better positioned and much higher growth? The answer is yes. And what do I mean by one arm behind our right? If you take a look at our international offering today, it's the same offering that our U.S.-based students get. It's the same pricing, so $14 95 and $19 95. The only thing that's really fundamentally changed is the fact that we render the pricing in the localized currency. But you know what, $14 95 in India aren't going to cut it if you want to get a large part of the market, right? I mean just a few weeks ago, 4 or 5, 6 weeks ago, Netflix announced an even a further price reduction on their let me recall on their offering, I think about a $3 unique offering with a mobile device in India because that's the market. And so we don't have that capability today. Those are the investments we're making as we speak. And that is to do 2 things. One is be able to offer a unique packaging by country or by region. And the second thing is unique pricing. And so I think once those become available in the latter part of this year, '22, we'll start to then start to see as we get into '23, '24, '25, the real potential of our international offering even though it's obviously been reasonably -- it's been successful today. And so those are the things that we're waiting on. And as you could imagine, we get gobs of traffic from India. But the conversion sucks. I mean we got to have an offering where it makes sense for that Indian market. And I can point out other markets in Mexico and Turkey and what we've been successful. But, yes. So we've got a lot of headroom international, super excited about it. Yes, so that's international.

And so you said that you're obviously making the investments now, you think they'll be rolled out sort of live second half of this year and sort of be out there for students. How should we think about where you're focusing those investments? Is it a doubling down in the countries that you're already focused on? Or are you continuing to expand the number of countries you're investing in outside the U.S.?

No, no, very focused right now. So -- and that's just a philosophy we take inside the company, period. And that is we want to focus on a few things and do them really, really well. That's a core philosophy of us. So we're not going to spread ourselves too thin. There's a core 8 to 10 countries that we focus on. And those countries are both English-speaking and English learning. So there's a lot of countries out there, let's go back to India. India is -- the native language is in English, but a lot of their higher education is what English.

English.

Exactly. So it's 8 to 10 countries that are like that. And that's what we're currently focused on. Will we focus on non-English language speaking countries and non-English learning countries at some point? The answer is, yes. We believe that will come, but it's not -- the core focus right now is those is those English-speaking, English learning countries that we can have packages and pricing and the things to really capture our unfair share, I guess, of that market is our goal.

Absolutely. So Chegg recently announced the acquisition of a company I know pretty well, Busuu in the language learning space. UK-based business, nice penetration in German-speaking countries. Tell us the strategic rationale of moving into language learning. And does Busuu at all given their international presence, does that help the international expansion efforts there?

Yes. So you do know Busuu well. We know Busuu very well. And just for some background for folks that are on the phone because is language learning, it's learning. That's what we do. We help students learn regardless of age. But it's something that we identified 6 or 7 years ago that it's an area where we could potentially get into same like -- similar to writing similar to maths Its language is math, whatever it may be. And at some point, it may be literature whatever it may be. But we started talking to Busuu I think about 6 years ago, Bernard, you know Bernard, the CEO, just for folks that are on the line. We actually met physically with Bernard, we had dinner with him. I wasn't at the dinner, but our M&A team was with him at dinner in Santa Clara 5 years ago, this past November. So we've known him for some period of time. We've looked at actually buying the company a couple of times, thought about it. And they just -- we decided 5 years ago not to we just didn't think they were at the right stage of development for us to be able to help them along the way, right? And so one of the things that we have identified within ourselves is that we're more a growth equity investor when it comes to acquisitions and not a VC. We're not good at VC. So we're not good at earlier stage companies. We're much better at later-stage companies. Five years ago, they were VC. Now they're growth equity. And we think we're -- it's the prime spot to be able to put the 2 companies together. They've created a fabulous platform. To your point, they've got -- they support 12 different languages.

13 now. They added Dutch.

Okay. So you know more about it than I. What can I say? But how.

They [indiscernible] like yesterday, I think.

Okay. So but they've got 12 different languages. 70% of their students come outside the U.S., which is great for us because can we offer others students, other things. 50% of their students are age 30 or older, once again, older demographic. And when you look at -- when less than 10% of their revenues come from inside the U.S., what a great opportunity for us to take what their core of their product and bring it to the U.S. That's not where they don't have a significant penetration in the U.S. So we think this is a fabulous acquisition for us. It's been a long time in the gestation phase back and forth on. But I do think if you ask Bernard and you probably know him, is that it was time for him to go to the -- to grow to the next level. We're a great platform for that. We have the right resources, and it's not just monetary resources. It's the -- all of the data analytics that help drive our business. And we've seen that in Mathway and we saw that with our writing tools. And so yes, we couldn't be more excited having Busuu and Bernard and the team into the Chegg fold soon, right, because it hasn't closed yet. We said the middle of January. So we're getting close to closing it, and we think it's going to be a great acquisition for us.

You mentioned -- you touched on it a little bit. The average learner, age of the average learner skews a little bit a bit older than a typical Chegg Services subscriber. So can you talk a bit more about how you think about that cross-sell opportunity can happen? And as I think about language learning in the U.S. and I see Duolingo and Babbel commercials all the time. It sounds a bit like an expensive venture of trying to really try to gain share. Is there something unique you can do in the broader Chegg model to really, I think, grow that business in the U.S.?

Well, I think very differently, right? I mean I hear you, I hear the Babbel ads and the Duolingo. I think what we -- I had several questions earlier at the breakout sessions with respect because most investors know Duolingo the best, not so much Babbel, Babbel is a private company, as you know. But where we differentiate from where we will differentiate because we're not quite there yet, differentiate from Duolingo is that that first thing is it's mostly outside the U.S. And to your point, there's 13 different languages and much of their -- 70% of their learning is non-English. The second thing is when you survey users, and if you even take a look at industry reports, Busuu is considered for a serious learner. So there's a significant intent to learn a language to advance, whether it's advanced somewhere. They need to learn the language. Duolingo is generally more casual learning. That's not a bad thing. I'm not -- don't take that as a -- I'm not trying to throw anybody under the book, but just different, right?

The intensity is a bit higher on the Busuu I know.

Exactly. And so what we -- and so to your point, is it an expensive venture because you're competing against Duolingo and potentially a battle? Well, what's different with us is we already have a brand. I mean like a massive brand with a lot of people that -- and we've had tens of millions of students that have already graduated Chegg. So if we offer them a language learning tool, whether it's the existing students, which we know from our surveys, there's a desire to have or whether it's our matriculated students that have an affinity to the Chegg brand. We think our ability to penetrate their market because of our brand and our awareness and the affinity of Chegg is much different than -- is much different than other companies. And so we think there's fairly significant synergies -- revenue synergies, particularly in the U.S. where it got little to no presence, right as you know, little to no presence, whereas the Duolingos of the world have a bigger presence. So yes, we're -- we think there's -- we think there's a lot of synergies that while we will invest dollars, it doesn't mean a massive amount of dollars that most people think that they don't have the assets, including the brand that we have.

And you talked about synergies a little bit. How do you think about cost synergies as you integrate the businesses once it's closed? And I think given Busuu is more of sort of a primarily mobile-based, gross margins in mobile, I guess, tend to be a bit lower. Obviously, their growth phase, they're burning cash for growth. How do you think about the impact that Busuu can have -- will have on Chegg margins in the near term?

You know what, this is the way I look at it. If you take a look at our EBITDA margins, right? And you know this from -- you see more companies than I do. I would say -- I think it's fair to say, and correct me if I'm wrong, push back hard if you think I'm wrong, that if you look at the learning space in total, right, across the learning categories, not just academic learning, including skills and all the other things, we have world-class margins period. There's no nobody that comes close, right? And so when I look at Busuu, you're right, they're not at scale yet. Are they going to be slightly dilutive to our margins overall? The answer is yes. But we do believe that ultimately, as they get to scale, they'll be Chegg like margins. And so I'm not dealing with where I was 7 years ago with 2% EBITDA margins. I'm dealing with 30% plus EBITDA margins. And if I have to -- if to add something that we know is super important to learn as a whatever age. I think that's the type of investment our shareholders would want us to make because we're still going to be a high margin company regardless of the impact of Busuu in the short term. And I use the word short term because it is in the short term.

Yes. Absolutely. Maybe just lastly on international, I think this is probably also a next segue into sort of a broader university discussion. But I was surprised to hear Dan discuss the international applicability of University. Can you talk a bit about sort of how that opportunity looks domestically versus internationally on the content creation and sort of how you're targeting faculty to try to create that content?

Yes. So there is a phased approach on Uversity, let's be clear. We started out -- it's currently open to U.S. faculty only. Then it will sequence into opening it up for opening up the content, I should say, because it's not available yet to students. We'll start on a -- really on a test basis, open it up to students in the spring, just to make sure it's being shown the way we want it to -- they want it to be shown and so forth and then hopefully fully opened in the fall. We will also, to Dan's point, is it's pretty much like kind of Chegg 2 or 3 years ago, we will then continue to expand outside the U.S. But we're starting in the U.S. and will open up outside the U.S. The answer is obviously yes. We are now a global subscription company. We're not a U.S.-based subscription company. But as you -- as most people would suspect, you're not likely to open everything up at once. And so it will be more of a phased impact -- phased approach, I should say. And yes that is something that we that we -- that will occur over time as we move forward with Uversity.

Do you think that there is a, I guess, a separate monetization opportunity with Uversity? You've been creating a lot of content paying out about $4 million, I think, thus far to professors for that content. But is it a separate sort of go-to-market? Or is it just kind of something gets weaved into learn with Chegg essentially now?

Yes, it's initially. So I will say initially, it's going to be rolled into one of the core subscription products we have. That doesn't mean over time that we wouldn't potentially treat it differently, but initially. So when it opens up the testing in the spring here and then fully in the fall with the U.S.-based students, it will be part of an existing subscription. The hope is, like we've done with -- when we've added other new content types or new subject matters, is that it attracts a student that may not have subscribed otherwise, right? Or it retains students longer that have already subscribed. So -- and we've seen that with other types of content, going all the way back to when we did expert Q&A and then adding video-based content and then adding practice tests. So that is the initial hope. That is what initially how it will get implemented.

Excellent. Next, I want to kind of talk about there's this really interesting piece, I think the GST management had kind of put out recently about sort of expanding lifetime value within education, sort of ability to create brand equity and loyalty. I think we're seeing that more now and more companies take that approach going down market into K-12, trying to also expand up into the professional learning environment. How do you think about this sort of expanding the LTV? And what's Chegg's approach that? Because obviously, you bought Thinkful a couple of years ago and sort of had an approach of looking at more of the skills market and the adult learning market. You've kind of avoided the K-12 space. Do you feel like there's more opportunity still just in the core base of focusing on higher ed? Or is there opportunity to really offer that lifelong learning opportunity and sort of going from pre-K to Grade 2?

Yes, I'm not sure -- I'd kind of flip it the other way. I think when you talk about the LTV, the way we think about LTV is this, we'd like to put ourselves in a position. This isn't going to happen overnight, but I think you're starting to see the foundations of it the way we're -- particularly with life of Chegg with -- learn with Chegg and if you take -- if you go to the video, there's life in their life Chegg life. And that is bringing services to students that are maybe not academic that go beyond just the academic period, the semester period, where the subscription becomes more like a membership you're going to say there's a difference between a subscription, which is more transactional than a membership. And so we think more about how do we create a platform that's more membership like, it doesn't happen overnight. And if it becomes more membership like, then become then it increases the LTV, right? I mean just by definition. So that's -- so I think it's more likely than not you're versus going necessarily younger at this point. We make older and offer things like skills, right? And if you take a look at learn with Chegg, you'll see skills is reasonably prominent in that. And that -- those are the types of things where it gets us out of more transactional and more into subscription. But yes, we absolutely think about that a lot. And I think that is an evolution of our platform over time. My hope is that if we're having this dialogue 5 years from now, it's more -- it looks more like a membership platform versus a discrete subscription service.

You mentioned skills being kind of featured prominently in learn with Chegg. Is that still a priority for you? Do you still see some great opportunity within the, I guess, adult learning market?

Oh, yes. Yes. I mean that's -- if you take a look at the industry, there's no question there's a trend towards skills-based learning. We're still relatively small in that space. We clearly need more assets there. I mean the asset that we have is doing well, but it's not -- to get -- for us to get to scale and skills, we need more assets. And that's just the reality.

Makes sense. Maybe we'll finish with just a bit of housekeeping on the Pearson lawsuit. Obviously, you're probably limited in what you can say, and you're also not a lawyer if I remember correctly. Can you kind of help investors understand sort of the issue and what Chegg's position is? And perhaps maybe even think about how we should think about time line for how this litigation kind of goes to trial, everything like that?

Yes. Well, first thing is -- I'm not a lawyer, so very simply -- it's best I can tell, it's an alleged infringement lawsuit. That's -- we believe that is -- we'll vigorously defend that for sure. You can imagine that's the corporate tagline on that, but we just don't -- but the bigger issue is we don't believe it has an impact on our business, right? If we take a look at the content they're talking about, it's just not that it's just not that meaningful for our business. But I do think it highlights truth be told, a bigger issue for me. And that is -- I think you're looking at 2 companies that you've got one company like Chegg that's at the forefront of education we're focused on the student. We're high growth, focused on the student. And then you've got a company that really is an old tool company, there's a no-growth company. that isn't focused on the student. And that's fundamentally what -- when I look at the a Chegg versus a Pearson is old school, no growth, not focused on the student and Chegg focused on the students first. We've said that since day 1, student first and we'll continue to do that.

Great. Well, as always, Andy, the 40 minutes goes by way too quickly, but I appreciate you taking the time and enjoyed the conversation for sure. Thank you, everyone, that has tuned in to listen to the fireside chat and have some great questions from the audience. But with that, we'll stop there. And everybody, have a great rest of the conference.

Okay. Thank you, everybody. Happy New Year.