CL Educate Limited (CLEDUCATE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Yes. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the CL Educate Q4 FY'21 Earnings Conference Call. My name is Arjun Wadhwa. I'm the CFO of CL Educate, and I'll be your host this evening. Joining me on this call is the senior leadership team of CL. My colleagues, Satya Narayanan, he's the Chairman and CEO of our Test-Prep business; Mr. Nikhil Mahajan, he's our Executive Director and Group CEO of our Enterprise business; and Mr. Gautam Puri, our Vice Chairman and Managing Director. As always, this analyst call will be recorded and a transcript and the recording will be available on our website within the next 24 to 48 hours. I'd like to invite Satya to start by walking you through the early parts of the presentation, following which I'll take over and then Nikhil, Satya, GP and I will be available for your questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Arjun. Thank you. Am I audible, Arjun?

Yes, Satya, please go ahead.

Arjun, am I audible?

Yes, Satya.

Good evening, everybody. Good evening, everybody. Just in case, if there's any challenge with the Internet, I will temporarily remove the option of video so that I'm -- my signals reach easily for you. First of all, a very warm welcome. And before I get in, I'll pause and check with you once again that I'm clear and I'm audible to each one of you? Thank you. Thanks for the signal, Arjun. Okay. So let's quickly take a dive into the first part, which I will take over the next 10, 15 minutes. Kindly, make a note of your questions. Happy to answer it at the transition when Arjun and I finish it, and they're trying to see if we can be [indiscernible] and leave a lot more time for Q&A at the end of 20, 25 minutes or so, okay? Okay. So Arjun, could you move to the Slide 1, please? Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. I'm just checking my annual data, just making sure that, that's perfect. Yes. All right. Thank you. So I think the first thing that I must start with is the fact that we have been in the midst of a very, very interesting and a very testing period for the last 12 to 15 months now. And while some of those crystallized summary are captured here, I think it is important for me to say right at the beginning that this is likely to emerge as a real breakout period for a certain set of companies who are going to respond to the very unprecedented and there's no master in the situation of COVID. And with the third wave also suspected to be lurking around the corner, we are hoping that we'll do a good job. We'll continue -- our team will continue to do a good job over the next 12 months while we run the day-to-day business, we're also looking at how do we respond proactively to the opportunities and challenges. Here are some [indiscernible] summaries. And I keep saying, pivoting is a very milder term, almost a romanticized term in the world of entrepreneurship and businesses are point in time. But the change was not pivot. The change was almost a 270-degree term that businesses had to do. At the same time, I must hasten to add that we were in that sense a lucky sector where we could take everything into a digital mode, quite literally, some over a period of 3 to 7 days and some over a period of 3 to 4 months on the both consumer side and the enterprise side. What's the summary of it? We serviced over 400,000 free [ new consumers ] out of which about 100,000 were our paid customers during the course of the year. Number two, very important, the off line, our network business, and as you perhaps might be already getting very, very familiar with the new terminology that has begun to pick up currency, which is digital plus high-touch premium segment is being called as the omnichannel. So when you look at -- I'm taking a private equity equivalent example of BYJU, acquiring an Aakash, this was actually a digital vehicle trying to add the strength of off-line business. And we are going to hear a lot more about it. That's what is this for us. We have 100-plus business partners who have a 2-classroom to 4-classroom setup. They have a local brand, local reputation. They added the digital mode that we offered to them. And what looked like something that's going to be a complete washout at the end of perhaps May or June last year, they did a remarkable transition. And we'll get to the numbers as we move forward, but this is something that was one of the highlights of our year that went by, with digital and high touch, they worked very, very well and in tandem. Kestone, 40% of their business -- 40% plus of their business was a high-touch business that was completely washed out due to COVID, but the team did exceptionally well to launch. And fortunately, they were working on this about 3 to 5 months prior to COVID. That project got accelerated, and they have done very well. They've been quoted, listed, named by reputed research organizations, technology, conferences, companies, media. I'll come to that in a minute. That's one very positive development that we have. Compared to this that we did last year, this is what we ended up doing, and we will come to the details of it, some more granularity when Arjun takes us through the numbers. Moving forward, I'll take a few minutes to cover the two businesses. The test prep in some ways, we are fortunate, as I mentioned to you, because we could go online. And it might not be incorrect, if I say, that -- perhaps, in some sense, this was a blessing in disguise because some parts of consumer behavior and some parts of entrepreneurial behavior from our business partners gotten accelerated because for anywhere from 3 to 6 months, there was no option, but to either get online and seek services or deliver services or sit at home. You couldn't have done anything. So in some sense, that was a positive thing. And those who were very keen to do it, the good thing is that the technology, the backbone, the -- because we were delivering those programs for the last 4 years, and that just grew 2.5x, which I'll come to in a moment. One very challenging thing, and this continues to be a reality even today is the whole uncertainty about the academic calendar of students. The board exams got canceled last minute. The entrance exams are getting scheduled and re-scheduled. And when that is announced, it's happening almost in a hurry, which at times is robbing us of doing a program, which is normally a 3-month or a 6-month program. So those are challenges that are there. The way we are working about it is that the challenge is same for all the players. Can we be that much more agile and alert to be those guys who changed the percentage of market shares, et cetera, those equations by being a little proactive. This has been a challenge. Most of our centers in our own locations are shut. Business partner locations are shut. We are making sure that we are working around the problem without violating either the health guidelines of employees, of students or the legal guidelines. One of the positive things that our team ended up doing very, very well, keeping the digital economy in mind in front of us is innovated with smaller ticket, which, in terms of time and in terms of price, smaller ticket versions of every single program and that was accelerated, put into place. Because now when a student is pretty much used to logging in for a 20-minute program or a 1-hour program or a 10-hour enrollment program, and the good thing is that the habits of Netflix and Amazons and all of those are helping us in riding that new consumer behavior of digital consumption. Our franchise business, which, at one point in time, look like might be a washout compared to 104 and 105 last year, ended up doing were INR 54 crores. That's creditable. Most of it happened in the second half of the year. It is showing good clip in the Q1, but we are kind of playing safe, considering the third wave of fear that are all around us. In spite the challenges, a couple of products grew a little bit, couple of products haven't grown. Most of it, we could attribute to the COVID-related issues. We haven't held ourselves back in wherever the investments were needed. And I'm highlighting one specific thing here before I move forward. Number one is we got a very, very senior, seasoned banker who was head of the contact center of almost 2,000-plus people of Standard Chartered Bank. She has joined us as a Chief Sales Officer. This is one of the important organizational design architecture pivots that we have done where the sales instead of being distributed across cities, it's all now centralized, digitalized and it is run with scalable sales tools and all the sales backbones that you know like the Netcore, LeadSquared, Salesforce, those kinds of options. So that is one. Second is we also have added a second level of leadership in finance as a controller finance. And as we step into the new year, our investments will continue while being very frugal on various things where frugality is possible. Moving forward, a little summary of the enterprise business. This really looked massively threatened at the beginning of the year. However, the team ended up doing INR 75 crores. Even a 45, 50 look very challenging at the middle of the year when we are looking at the entire year. Not only that because a lot of transitions have happened into digital. The weighted average of gross margins have gone up from 11% to 15%. Within this, there are some more nuanced 2, 3 subsegments. I'm skipping that in the summary. We can take those questions off-line. Or respond to it in the Q&A. VEP has been rated among the top 10 globally by Grand Research View and rated among the top 6 by the ET report. We have done many, many prestigious events globally. And even in India, the one of the prestigious summits, which was personally inaugurated and addressed by the honorable Prime Minister was done on the VEP platform. But other than that, working with brands such as Google, Amazon, Dell, et cetera, globally in multiple geographies. It looks like a good breakthrough. Let's see how well our team scales to the next level. This is, again, a little heartwarming. The good thing is that this could be done remotely. And all the back end and deliveries were managed by our team, which is sitting out of Bangalore, and we are looking at a hybrid model. For example, we have [ autonomous ] setup in Singapore, which does the go-to-market, but most of the back-end delivery, middleware, everything sits in Bangalore. So this is a little heartwarming. This has been pretty much a significant bad news. A couple of companies have gone completely into very, very serious storm because of universities have been affected. Universities admission cycles have been affected massively. The examinations got delayed. The fees that institutions were charging, they were anywhere from half to quarter. So our institutional business had to continuously stay on a quarter-on-quarter, make changes. And then you -- when we come to the financial part, inevitable had to be done. Arjun will take us through that. But I don't see this question mark going away even in the next 3 to 6 months. For instance, as you know, this year's universities admission cycles have not even started. Prestigious institutions like Delhi, Bombay, Chennai, Calcutta universities are not likely to start before October or November. These are official figures, official dates. So it is still challenging. Fortunately, it's not a crippling, critical part of our business, but it's a very interesting, good high EBITDA business. In all of these, we are continuously working even high-value products digitally, so that the margins can be enhanced and how much can we do a blended play? That is something that we are working upon. Hopefully, we will make a steady but sustainable progress over the next few quarters. Publishing also has been severely impacted, and our response has, again, been to focus on online. We also have changed our booking models, revenue models, revenue recognition, things, et cetera, so that we are staying -- as we move into the new year, we are staying as much close to invoicing is equal to -- cash is equal to revenues, and we are not doing some bit of -- if anything, it's future, 3 months, 6 months away. We are breaking it down and focusing on things which we know will lead to as close to bad debts as possible given the current very, very challenging circumstances for all around us. Moving forward. A little summary. I will not take any time elaborating, but these are all actual summary visually of all that our Kestone and CL Media teams have done during the course of the year. Next, please? I will hand it over to you, Arjun, and you could pick it up from here.

Thanks, Satya. I just want to confirm that I'm audible?

Yes, you are.

Okay. Thank you. So I'll walk you through the financials and corporate updates. And then as Satya mentioned, we'll then throw it open to questions. You can send your questions to the chat window, and we get back to you. On the financial side, as Satya shared previously, we've done INR 194 crores this year as compared to INR 320 crores the previous year. Obviously, COVID impacted. From a business EBITDA perspective, this resulted in a business EBITDA, for us, of INR 33 crores and a business EBITDA margin of 17% as compared to INR 44 crores business EBITDA last year and a margin of 14%. I will explain this in further detail as we go a deeper into the presentation. In terms of financial EBITDA, the numbers that you would have seen in the results are quoted yesterday. We finished with an EBITDA of minus 0.8 as compared to INR 8.6 crores the previous year. I'm also happy to share that from a net cash perspective, we were at INR 18 crores last year. We've grown that by an extra INR 12 crores this year. So our balance sheet is a lot healthier this year as compared to what it was the previous. This is just a quick look at the business financials, the way we see it. Our total income this year is 194. Against that, all business-related direct expenses were 161.2, giving us a business EBITDA, I mentioned, of 33. And a business PBT of 19. As shared, this resulted in a business EBITDA margin of 17%. For those of you who've gone through our investor FAQs, you know the difference between business EBITDA and financial EBITDA. But just in terms of a recap, the difference between the two is the write-offs that we've taken this year. And as Satya mentioned, we have done some cleaning up of our balance sheet. And we have taken some COVID-enforced write-offs. Details again were there in our investor FAQ that we posted on our website yesterday. First of all, I'd just like to stress that all of these are noncash related. But for those long-term investors who've been following us for a while, you've known that there was an amount of INR 18 crores still left outstanding on our rotational receivables. We have decided to take the prudent way here and write us INR 14.5 crores out effect. The remaining INR 3.6 crores that we have kept that we are carrying forward into FY'22 is imminently collectible. It is something that is very much at the last stages of release from the respective government departments, and we hope to receive those amounts over the course of this year. In terms of other COVID-related write-offs that we took in our test-prep business, there was a INR 4.8 crores write-off with regards to our student receivables on account of dropouts. As Satya mentioned, this was an exceptionally challenging year for CL Media because of universities being shut and because of the massive cash crunch at the university and due to a significant reduction in fees. This resulted in a lot of existing contracts having to be canceled. And so we took the prudent measure, again, over here of taking a write-off of INR 9 crores. This is a onetime clean up, and we do not anticipate any write-offs in either the vocational business or in the CL Media business going forward. And as Satya also mentioned a little while ago, we've also reworked our invoicing methods to ensure that this sort of a situation doesn't arise going forward. From a GKP perspective, we've also taken a sales return of INR 13 crores because of a lot of distributors and retailers being shut for the better part of the last 18 months due to COVID. Obviously, again, this entire amount is at a write-off against this, we would have received about INR 7 crores of inventory, all of which, as you would have read in my investor FAQs, all of which is reusable once we have refurbished the same. I move forward. Sorry, Satya -- yes, in terms of the financial summary, so if you look at the financials as you have seen in our results announced yesterday, the total expenses would have been a significantly higher number. The reason for that differential as we shared just now, is because of the COVID-enforced write-offs that we booked this year. That has resulted in an EBITDA of 0.8 and a PBT of -- sorry, minus 0.8 and a PBT of minus 14.7. But just to reiterate what I just said previously, our business is exceptionally healthy. And from a business EBITDA perspective, we are at plus 33. Also, as I shared before, from a cash perspective, we continue to add cash. We finished with a gross cash of 68.8, as against 61 same time last year. And we've also reduced our borrowings by over 10 -- by almost 10%, INR 4 crores, so from 42.8 to 38.4. The fact that our net trade payables are also significantly lower, almost half of what they were same time last year, means from an effective cash position perspective, we are better off by nearly INR 26 crores. So all in all, from a cash EBITDA and business EBITDA and EBITDA margin perspective, we've had a pretty good year, all things considered despite COVID. Briefly in terms of our corporate updates, I have 4 specific areas that I'd like to share with you. Number one, we here at almost a stage of closure, regards to Faridabad -- with regards to our Faridabad land, which is valued in our books as an asset held for sale now at about INR 5.4 crores. We expect to conclude that deal in the coming months. So the Board has approved that sale yesterday. In terms of our digital vehicle, you would remember that at the last Board meeting, our Board approved the creation of a new entity, which would bolster our digital test-prep business. The Board -- its latest Board meeting has approved the transfer of the digital business that exists in CL Educate to this new wholly owned subsidiary. And the primary objective behind this move is to ensure that there is a dedicated singular focus on digital test prep so that we can unlock the full potential of this business and give it wings and the wind behind the sails that it needs to fly. In terms of our fund raise, we had mentioned this briefly in our last investor call as well, this process is underway. Conversations are ongoing with potential investors. And it's a fairly lengthy process. It takes time. We're about at least a full quarter, 3 months at least away from conclusion, and we will keep you, as investors and as shareholders, updated as progress happens over the coming weeks. With regards to our merger, as you're all aware, because of COVID, there has been a significant restriction in terms of the functioning of the NCLT in Chandigarh. And over the last year, we've had 4 hearing dates postponed. Our latest hearing date is scheduled for July 30, and we are hopeful that, that goes through. This is the final hearing for our second motion petition. Should this go through, we would be able to conclude the merger in 3 to 4 months post the conclusion of that hearing. Unfortunately, currently, there's a significant backlog at the NCLT, and there is news that there could be a further delay because of that. As soon as we have something more to share on this, perhaps when we meet for our next quarter -- next investor call, we will be able to update you further on the same. That's it from me. And as I said, I'll now throw the floor open for questions. [Operator Instructions] Anything that we leave unaddressed, you are welcome to please connect with our team offline, and we will have your queries addressed. Satya?

Yes. Thanks, Arjun. Maybe I'll take the 2 questions together that have already come from [ Vikram ] and [ Subrat ]. So Vikram's question is what is the status of fundraise for Kestone and the digital business? Vikram, as Arjun mentioned, I think any substantial progress, in my view, is perhaps at least 12 weeks away. The good thing is that about 10 NDAs have been signed for the CL digital business and four or five of them are at initial stages of conversations. One or two of them are perhaps moving into stage 2. But as you know, these are processes that takes a quarter or two for us even to know whether we are succeeding or not. So the situation with Kestone is not very different. And in order to be able to give it the focus, we appointed to distinct bankers. And even there, 5 or 6 conversations have happened over the last 8 weeks or so. So kindly stay tuned into this. And as and when they will cross some important milestones, we will keep all of you updated through our disclosures on the investor zone. It is appropriate for me to say that the conversations have been interesting. The conversations have been heartwarming. But anything more than that, it would be too early to infer for any of us. Subrat's question is, how will the minority shareholders be impacted in the formation of digital business, CL private limited, please explain in detail. Subrat, I would like to respond to this question by zooming out a little bit. And I would want to assume that if the broad vehicle, the listed entity, CL Educate, which has had -- which has been the mother or the parent of two businesses, which are, in some sense, as we've heard over the last 3, 4, 5 years in many of conversations with some of you here, are two distinct businesses, focusing on two distinct parts, distinct markets. One is a B2B marketing tech company, which is Kestone. One is a BTC, a tech company. Both are having phenomenal opportunities. In the listed space, a Kestone can be called as a very micro version of [ Afree ]. Whereas CL is a listed version of a BYJU in India or [indiscernible] or New Horizon in China. Both are very, very exciting landscapes. And the way our minds are working is that we've worked very hard to incubate them as profitable technology savvy, great team companies in the last 10, 15 years. And all of us are focused on how do we unlock the value? How do we get the -- and that unlocking of value. And as Arjun said, giving them the right amount of fuel, runway to go and chase that business -- large business growth opportunity, will, in itself, also translate into a lot of benefits for the parent entity and with parent continuing to hold significant equity in those businesses. So these are a little broad observations that we are going in with, and that fundraising in itself doesn't dilute our attention on our core listed parent entity CL Educate, which is the business right now. So whether the funding happens or not, whether it happens 3 months earlier, 3 months later, whether it's 5-million fundraise or 30 million in the 2 entities, we are trying to make sure that we strike a balance between absolute focus on the core business on a day-to-day basis and hopefully, replicate and do better in 2022 compared to what we have done in 2021, which I would want to acknowledge the good work done by the entire team. And if the funding happens, I think that just puts us in a different orbit. I hope I've answered your question, Subrat. Anything more at a little bit more micro detail, kindly feel free to share it because on an e-mail, we will respond to that and make sure that, that's put up on the investor zone so that any question that is answered, even offline, goes into the investor zone. Your question, [ Aniket ], is fairly detailed. At this, I would like to pick it up as an offline response. I almost can visualize a quick 4 x 7 Excel sheet that needs to be mailed and put up there. But we will be happy to do that if you give us a day or two. Arjun, do you want to take up this question on the mutual fund investments from [ Braham ]?

Yes, it's at market price, just to answer your question, Braham. Satya if I may, there's also a question from [ Sameet Joshi ], asking for the reason for increase in other expenses on a quarter-to-quarter basis. The reason for that Sameet is because of the write-offs that we have taken. The bulk of them have fallen in Q4, so the vocational expense write-off of 14.5 crores, 13.5 was in Q4, which is one and a large part of the CL Media write-offs are also in Q4, which is why the other expenses when you do a quarterly comparison is higher in Q. Satya, back to you.

Yes. I'll take the next question again from Braham, comparing BYJU's valuation? And then what is the gap in content, geography and technology, and this could be a good pivot for future growth. So Braham, a couple of ways in which I would like to contrast the two or articulate the similarities are as follows. Number one, one, needless to say, they are in the private equity space, and we are already listed as a company. And one of the things that -- good thing that has happened, thanks to BYJU's, and we should give credit to the private equity led play there, is that what earlier one had to argue that is a large deep opportunity and it's not a narrow shallow opportunity. That question has gone out of the window. So that's a great thing that has happened, thanks to the funding that has come into either BYJU's or an academy or upgrade or a few players. Coming to the future, this is how I think. The sales differentiator is her ability to deliver results. And that's a very important stickiness, virtuous cycle -- virtuous business building attribute any tech company must have. What do I mean by results? If you go into an IM, if you go into a national law school, if you go into IT and ask the question, how many of you have come from brand a or brand b? I think that must be a very telling part of your story. And I'm not surprised -- or if you were to ask me one big reason or two big reasons why BYJU would have taken an Aakash in, I would say, two reasons: One, results of Aakash. The number of students Aakash sends to medical schools and engineering colleges is nontrivial, which is not there with BYJU. So they have strengthened one of their Achilles heel, number one. Number two, is the ability to do an omni play. And CL has both of these in-house built. And how do you evidence it? How does it translate into competitive advantage or a business mode for you? Your CAC is very low. CL's CAC, consumer acquisition costs, are as little as 6% to 20%, which for most of these companies is between 50% to 400%. That is number one. Number two, which is what we are betting on, and we don't want to get too diluted, is the future of entrance exams and test prep are all going to be aptitude. You would have heard about government announcing what is called as a CUCET, which is Central University Commons Entrance test, which will emerge 4x larger than IIT-JEE and NEET put together instead of a 20 lakh business of IIT-JEE and NEET, CUCET is likely to be INR 80 lakh to INR 1 crores per year student and every student who's in 10th, 11th and 12th -- or 12th passout, who takes a drop year are your potential students. So the good thing is both the similarities are both are technology dependent, scalable, omnichannel companies. The differentiators are CL is focused on aptitude from age of 15 to 25. They are focused on sciences, engineering, art. Will they not come here? They could, and they could do another acquisition in aptitude. They could be talking to brands like us, TIME, IMS, et cetera. But I would agree with you. And just to pull out and sign off on that question, at a macro level, the way I see it is that there will be perhaps 4 or 5 tech players sitting out of India who will become listed entities. They will have their engineering, R&D, backbone teaching, sitting out of India. But they could be servicing 1 million, 2 million, 5 million students globally. And if any of us needs an analogy, IT services, with TCS, Infosys, Wipro, HCL Tech and also there is a room for an upstart like a Happiest Minds, is not who incorrect an example. And this is how it has played out in China, too. I'll pause there and let you see any other question that has come up, Arjun?

Okay. There's another question from Aniket, which is a continuation of the previous ones. So Aniket, five questions, we'll take a look and see if we can add in them to our investor FAQ. With regards to the last one, the revenue guidance of this financial year, just to share, we do not give a future-looking guidance as part of our analyst calls.

Braham, I did say -- I'll just make an observation about one of the Braham's comment, Arjun. This year that went by, Braham, our international test prep and B2C revenues were about 1.5 million, and most of it coming out of Middle East, where we have been there for over a decade. And we are beginning to take the programs where we are very good at. We have good results and then take it selectively to geographies outside of India. And we will move in the direction in a very measured, sure footed way over the next 3 to 4 years. Vikram, what is the vision for the company 5 years out, I will perhaps reemphasize or restate what I mentioned earlier. One inevitable outcome I see, Vikram, is that there will be 4 to 5 highly profitable, highly respected brands and because of their brand and technology outcomes and financial strength. These 4 people, 5 people, they go and win it big time globally. And I'm continuously mentioning that over a period of next 5 to 10 years, India will emerge as the nerve center of global tech play. It will not be China. I'm not talking about the current crisis, current things, but there is an English part. There is a technology part. There is a familiarity with important ingredients that make a tech success, which is one of the reasons why I would like to believe that there will be 4 or 5 big players over the next 5 years. And I would love to see CL being one among them. Arjun, any other question that's visible to you?

Yes. Satya, there are 2 questions from [ Krishnakumar Srinivasan ]. One is have we completed the provisions and write-offs? And are there any more being debated? Just to reiterate what we mentioned in our Investor FAQs, Krishnakumar, yes, this was a onetime exercise enforced on us due to COVID. We have done a comprehensive cleanup, and we do not anticipate anything additional here going forward, over and above any bad debts that come out of business as usual. His second question was what's the preparation that we have done for the CUCET market if you just like to take that?

The good thing about CUCET -- and thanks, Arjun. Thanks, KK, for the question. The good thing about the CUCET opportunity for us is that our meter doesn't start at 0 students. The beauty of it is that we are a #1 player in the law prep by a mile. The next 4 players put together are less than CL. So there is no other player. And law is also aptitude, as you know, similarly, IPM, which is the undergrad program launched by the IMS over the last 10 years. It started with IIM Indore and two more IIMs have announced it this year. IIM Bangalore has announced a 2023 program. So our CUCET opening balance starts like 25,000 students, and then we build on it. So already, our programs are live. You can go. You can enroll. Our programs of CUCET for 2021 crash, 2022 and 2023, two year program, all these are live and enrollable today. The session flow, the faculty, everything is live. The only thing that stops us for this hope to become a trickle and hopefully more than that, is the notification from NPA, saying that the exam this year is going to be held on the, let's say, 11th of September or something like that. The good news is that 40 out of the 54 central universities have agreed and committed to take it through CUCET this year itself. The slight dampener, KK, is that a couple of these flagship universities have to say yes, the biggest of them being Delhi University. The moment that Delhi University says yes, I think it just will become -- the floodgates will open. The other important thing for all of us to remember about CUCET is that it's not a "once in a year" exam, it's "twice in a year" exam, and they are planning to get to a point where, like SAT and GMAT and GRE, it will be an on-demand exam for about 10 days every month in about 2 to 3 years' time. So I think it's -- it would -- in the education, testing landscape, this will be a watershed moment in terms of educational reforms. And definitely, it bodes well for the students and also for companies like us. Back to you, Arjun.

Thanks, Satya. There are a couple of questions regarding the ESOP plan. There's another one from KK, what is the business plan for the CL UK Online management team? Why are we having a 10% ESOP for the subsidiary? And does the Kestone subsidiary also have similar ESOP plans. Can you please talk a little bit about the management team there?

Sure. Sure. Sure. Thanks. Thanks, Arjun. I wish we had that slide of the management team on both sides. What we could do, Arjun, is in response to this question, kindly note down this question. Let's add it to the FAQ and also attach the management teams a little bit of a quick profile or a picture or a PPT to that. So KK, thanks for asking that. As you are aware, this ESOP plan, it covers all the nonpromoting senior leadership team on both sides. And these people come with immense experience. And today, in some sense, we would be vulnerable because we've already seen it happen over the last year or 2 where the hyper-funded companies are throwing salaries at 3x and 4x, which we don't want to do. The important thing that we always measure and all of us must do is the job role and what is the value of the job role and if somebody has to build a wealth out of it that must come from the ESOP plan. So we are trying to strike a balance, stay middle of the road and create a wealth creation plan for about 20, 25 people on the CL digital side and about maybe 15 to 20 people on the Kestone side. The exact names, the numbers, the amounts, all of those are part of our formal process approved by the NRC, which reports to the Board and subject to various guidelines. We'll be very happy to share all of these. Chances are that whatever was shareable would have been shared already. What we see -- what is the purpose of this -- hopefully, I've answered, KK, but some of these people are irreplaceable or difficult to find in the marketplace. And I don't have to go too far. Someone like Arjun himself figures in that list, along with other 35 people. And these employees all have been with CL from 3 years to maybe 18, 20 years. A couple of opportunities of [indiscernible] came, but there was too, few and far between. But we're taking another fresh start, look at it and saying that can we -- when our collective ecosystem entity goes from here to, let's say, a 10x or 50x in terms of enterprise value, can that part of it go to youngsters, who are in the age group of, let's say, 25 to 45. Incidentally, can they participate in that and then take away their own wealth-creation opportunities. Arjun, any other question?

Yes. Satya, there's another question on the expected sale price of the Faridabad property. We're expecting that sale to go through between -- a price between INR 7 crores and INR 7.5 crores. Are there any other fixed assets, which we have that can be sold? Yes, we do have, our 2 plots of land in [indiscernible] and Raipur, where we have our schools, which are part of our assets held for sale list. We're hoping to do those transactions in the not-too-distant future, but we'll keep you updated on progress as and when we have something concrete to report on the same. I think 2 largest -- yes.

I think -- yes. Arjun, just to add one line to what you said, especially to those who are perhaps joining us for the first time. Like Arjun mentioned about INR 7 crores has been released from the sale of this asset. Depending upon how good or how bad the market is, the rest of the assets, which also are intended to be sold, should release us anywhere between a INR 50 crores to INR 80 crores, whenever those go. So those are -- another [indiscernible] but as you know, those transactions when they happen, they happen. We are on it. But for those who would have liked to hear a number, that's the number I wanted to share, Arjun.

Thanks, Satya. I think that's the last of the questions. If -- my apologies, you were saying?

No, I was just handing it back to you.

Okay. Thanks. So if you have any additional questions, I'd be -- our e-mail addresses are on the screen right now. Please feel free to get in touch with my colleagues, Amit or me or our Investor Relations team, Ajay and Nirjhar, their e-mail addresses are also on screen. We'd be happy to take any of them. Thank you so much for your time this evening. We look forward to meeting with all of you within the next month, 1.5 months. We'll keep you posted on our Q1 analyst call dates in due course. Thank you and stay safe.

Thank you very much. Thanks, Arjun. Thank you, everybody.