CL Educate Limited (CLEDUCATE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'll just check once again, Satya, Gautam, am I audible and visible?

Yes, you are audible, Arjun. You are visible. Please confirm that for us also.

Good to go, Satya. GP?

Good afternoon, Arjun and Satya. Good afternoon, everyone.

Good afternoon. You're both loud and clear. It's 3:31, and I'm going to kick off the session. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to CL Educate Limited's Q3 FY '25 Analyst Call. My name is Arjun Wadhwa. I'm the CFO of CL Educate, and I'll be your host today. Welcome once again to our Metaverse platform called Vosmos, which we have been using for more than 3 years now for our analyst calls. This call, as always, will be recorded, transcribed and made available in the Investor Zone on our website within the next 24 hours to 48 hours. Should you have any questions during this call, please type them out in the chat box in the bottom right-hand corner of your screen. We will take them all up together towards the end of the session. Joining me on this call today is Mr. Satya Narayanan. He's our Founder and Chairman; and Mr. Gautam Puri, Co-Founder, Vice Chairman and Managing Director. Gautam takes direct reporting of the EdTech business now, including our test prep business. Mr. Nikhil Mahajan, who anchors the MarTech business is unfortunately unable to make it today as he's in the U.S. So for today, I will cover the finance and business slides, and we'll take questions on MarTech. I will bring Gautam or Satya in for various questions on EdTech, or any of our new initiatives when necessary. Satya, over to you.

Yes. Thanks, Arjun. We move to the slide. Okay. All right. So good afternoon, everyone. Thank you, Arjun. This is a bit of a change of sequencing. Normally, we do the corporate updates at the end, but this is perhaps not a corporate update, but an update nevertheless. So the first update that I would like to give all of you is that the NSEIT, that acquisition is near completion. We can go to the next slide to see a little bit of details of that. The SPA has been signed, as you might have seen and which also was followed by the formal press releases from both sides. There are a couple of absolute closure events that are pending, such as taking over of the Board and such a couple of stuff. If any specific questions are there, Arjun will take us through that at the end. We foresee those completing in the next 7 days to 10 days. For those of you or for maybe for all of us, just as a recap of what NSEIT DEX means to our ecosystem, on day 1, it starts with an opening balance of about a top line of INR 200 crores, and this gives us about 17% EBITDA margin. And we look at this inclusion or integration of NSEIT into CL as a very significant orbit changing event, wherein the TAM, the assessment opportunity in India, the total addressable market is estimated to be about 9 crores people and poised to grow to 18 crores in the next 5 years to 7 years. And when we say assessment, any assessment that covers 5 or 6 areas, I'll come to that in a moment. Those are all covered here. So if you look at it, it could be recruitment, it could be promotion, it could be professional certifications, it could be individual certifications, it could be vocational training programs. So, all of these add up to this 9 crores going to 18 crores in a large Indian market. And this does not include the interest within the school or within the university, semester kinds of assessments, which also are slowly and surely moving towards digital. And subsequently, they also are likely to move towards being an on-demand examinations. The most valuable thing that comes to us from NSEIT acquisition is the technology backbone. And I do dare say that this has a potential to compete in this space and become an integral part of India's digital stack public infrastructure, wherein we have already seen the success of elements such as Aadhar or UPI or DigiLocker and so on. So NSEIT DEX, because of its DNA, because of its legacy, because of the scalable technology platforms on which it has been built by very, very experienced and thought-leading architects, we are now in possession of this. This is one of the biggest business moats in our view, along with the distribution that it has. Today, NSEIT DEX has a capability to conduct a population-scale examination between whether it's a 5 lakh or a 25 lakh examination in over 700 districts across the country. And while that being so, the greater possibility that we do see over the next 3 years to 5 years is where NSEIT DEX can go international. We already have examination conducting experience in the last 5 years as DEX in 7 overseas locations in the Middle East and in South Asia, but this is likely to grow as Indian education grows in stature as India becomes a jobs-ready -- future jobs granting or supplier to the world. There is a greater role that will be played by assessment companies across the globe. So, this is a very orbit changing thing. It comes with good financials, and our job is now to see how do we take it from where it is to a 3x and a 5x over the coming few years. The final point to make in this and maybe I'll also follow that up in the subsequent slide is that we have an exceptionally experienced team. At a future date, we will organize an interface with the leadership that comprises the Head of Business, Operations Head, Technology Head. I'll cover that in a moment. We can move forward, Arjun. Thank you. One of the important things that we have worked even while this transaction was getting underway was to see how we can keep the large institutional strength of NSEIT in the form of a very, very high caliber, hugely seasoned, respected Independent Board Members. And I'm very happy to share with you the following 4 names who have, in principle, agreed to come on Board. So in a week from now when Arjun resides over the entire changeover process, we will have former Board Member of NSE, Mr. Yatrik Vin, joining the Board of NSEIT DEX; Mr. Krishnakumar, who is a very well-respected public markets investor for a couple of decades. His last assignment was as the CIO at Sundaram Asset Management. K.K. is joining us on the Board. The third and a very, very wonderful name to associate is Mr. R. Subrahmanyam, very highly respected, highly regarded in the space of public policy, government schemes and so on. His last assignment, he retired as the Secretary of Higher Education and Social Justice and IAS Officer of 1985 batch. And lastly, we also have been able to get Ms. Madhumita Ganguli, who is an independent Board member and an HDFC nominee on the CL Board, CL Educate Board for the last few years. Madhu will be the common Board Member and also the lady Board Member that we need to have on the NSEIT DEX Board. Moving forward, this is the 3-member leadership team. Krishnan is the President and CBO. He's been in the system for the last 19 years and also leading the business since 2015. Then we have Dr. Paresh, who is a PhD in computer science from IIT Kharagpur, and a very seasoned veteran who has seen the growth of NSEIT right from the role of Head of Projects to now becoming the CTO over the past decade or more. And thirdly, we have Chintan Turki, who is a BITS Pilani graduate and extremely rich experience across a few companies before coming to NSEIT 5 years, 6 years ago, and he heads the entire operations of NSEIT DEX business. Let's move forward. The second quick update that I want to give you is the launch of Utsav. We have been speaking about it for the last quarter or 2. We had a very, very successful launch officially on the 12th of June (sic) [ January ]. In addition to that, we also had our first large event executed and billings have started. Our first event happened on the 7th of -- sorry, I should have said January, I'm sorry. I said -- I think I said 12th June -- 12 January. And we had our first event on 7th of January. These are the real pictures of an event that we conducted. It was a destination wedding in Jaipur. The Boy is of Indian origin. The girl, Rebecca, is an American girl, and this is a destination wedding attended by a few hundred guests, and it went off very beautifully. The videos that you were watching as you were coming into the analyst call were the actual videos of -- from that wedding. I will pause here and let Arjun run the video. [Presentation]

Satya, back to you.

Yes. We can go to that slides, Arjun. The appropriate...

Is it visible?

Yes, the next slide. Yes, this slide is visible. Go to the next slide. We're also happy to announce that the founding members for Utsav, we've been able to rope in 2 very, very successful and well-known names in the hospitality and food and beverage industry, and they join us as founding members and co-promoters. More details of these, we will be able to share, but the event was graced by both Sameer Puri, who is a well-known restaurateur in Delhi and Sanjeev Kapoor, the celebrity chef. And they will be joining us in taking Utsav to the entire range of design, execution, growth and so on. Is this a short video of the launch, Arjun?

Yes, Satya. I'll just wait 20 seconds. [Presentation]

Thanks, Arjun.

I'll just move back to the presentation once again, please.

Yes.

Sorry, my apologies here.

So, that was the brief of the 2 updates that I had to give you, which were new initiatives which are coming into our fold. I'll now hand it over to Arjun to move into the financial and business updates.

Thanks, Satya. I'll just move straight away into how this year is looking for us so far. As you're all aware, we've grown our revenues about 5% from INR 255 crores to INR 269 crores. The EdTech business is down by about INR 8 crores from INR 161 crores to INR 153 crores, while the MarTech business is up by about INR 22 crores from INR 94 crores to INR 116 crores. From an operating EBITDA perspective, we are more or less similar or just about 10% behind where we were same time last year from INR 20 crores to about INR 18 crores. And that dip is across both segments, a little bit more in the EdTech space than in the MarTech space. Specifically looking at the EdTech space, as you're all aware, it's divided into 3 components: Test Prep, which accounts for about 80% of our business and then the platform and publishing business. The Test Prep business has been a little bit of a challenge this financial year as we see a lot of flux from -- in both our MBA and law businesses, largely on account of a lot of local competition and a lot of online players entering this space and flooding the market with freemium products. I'll spend a little bit more time on this in a later slide. But just to give you a quick overview, the Test Prep business, the revenues are down by about 9%. On a platform monetization perspective, we're up 20% and the publishing business is up about 8%. On the MarTech side, we've already shown you that we're up about INR 22 crores. This revenue growth comes at about 19% from India and about 26% internationally. The margins, as we mentioned, are a bit lower. This is largely on account of environmental factors and how things are on the ground, especially with tech companies. But we're working to mitigate the same, and the situation should improve considerably in the next financial year. From a long-term perspective, things continue to look bright. And as an organization, considering where we are looking to grow both organically and inorganically, we continue to invest in people and technology from a long-term perspective. And you'll see that when you compare the operating EBITDA, especially looking at specific areas like employee benefits and so on. Coming on -- moving on specifically to the 2 business lines. On the MarTech side, as mentioned, we're up at about -- we're up about 20%. The EBITDA, I already explained. But specifically in terms of what we're doing, we're looking to leverage some of our key clients in the Indian space to open doors across APAC. We work with some of the best names in the technology space in India, including Microsoft, Dell, Amazon, Facebook and so on, and we're looking to leverage that to get more business from Singapore and Indonesia, where we have offices now. And as we mentioned, our international business is growing at 26%. So, very solid on that front. Vosmos also continues to grow well, with Salesforce coming on as a new customer across India and APAC. We are in the process of executing 7 events for them across the 2 regions, 4 are already done and 3 are in the pipeline. And our Meta-Commerce initiatives continue to bear fruit. You would have seen in some of our older videos, we had given a walk-through for all investors on the work we had done with Royal Orchid. We are happy to share that, that has moved beyond the pilot stage. And we also now have a project with The Sterling Group, and Taj and Oberoi Groups have also picked up pilots. So all looking strong, all looking good. Hopefully, the margins will also continue to pick up over the next few quarters. Moving on to the EdTech business, specifically the Test Prep side. From an enrollment perspective, our MBA numbers are up on a 9 month -- from a 9-month comparison of FY '24 to FY '25. The MBA numbers are up 14%. Some of this has come at the cost of a fairly different kind of product mix as we see a lot of students opting for shorter duration programs and online programs and testing and assessment programs. So, what that has meant is the PQ is lower. And so there's a revenue dip across the MBA segment. But as we said, we're doing what we can to mitigate this. And we've launched our own series of freemium products, including an open CAT zone and so on. And we're hoping that this picks up in the quarters ahead. From a law perspective, we've shared in previous sessions as well, the shifting of the exam date has impacted this market considerably, and it has completely wiped out 2 key segments of that space, which is the crash course students who would typically come after their board exams and the repeaters market who would come in the -- after they finish their high school. Both those markets would have contributed typically 35% to our total business and were very high-margin businesses. Both of those don't exist anymore. But what we do see is a lot of students gravitating towards a 2-year program rather than a 1-year program. And that has meant that we've managed to keep revenues fairly close to where they were earlier, but yes, that has an impact on margins. CUET also has been impacted. It hasn't grown at the speed at which we would have liked when we launched the product 3 years ago. A large chunk of that comes down to the way the tests have been executed and managed. But -- I'm sorry, my slides have moved. Just a second, please. Yes. But that's something that we are working through. And we're looking at introducing more product variants in the -- specifically in the UG space, including hotel management programs and focusing more on our BBA and IPM segments to continue to grow that space. We've signed up 19 new partners this financial year. And in terms of other initiatives that we've started, we've relaunched our CSAT program. We had mentioned in our last analyst call that CSAT used to be a INR 20 crore business for us, and we used to handle more than 20,000 students a year at its peak about 10 years ago. Then the market dynamics changed, the requirement of that exam being a necessity became -- you just have to get your 33% to clear it and the number of people who would take preparation was impacted. That exam has become much more difficult in recent years, and there is a growing demand for it once again. So, our CSAT relaunch is in process, and we're looking at specific markets where we will look to engage. We are also looking at launching a whole new set of market-oriented courses, largely as an add-on to our MBA prep programs. So whether it's MBA plus GMAT or MBA prep plus CFA or CPA and so on, these are other avenues that we are currently evaluating, and you should hear more about this over the weeks and months ahead. If you do follow our news, you would have also heard about our new higher education transformation initiatives with the launch of CHEX. There's a gentleman who has returned to the career launcher fold after a 30-year gap, Alok Mehta, who's joined in a dual role as CHRO for the company and as the Business Head for CHEX, where he will be interfacing with universities and companies, bringing CL in as the go-between to help companies with their aspirations of getting quality freshers and helping universities with their placement initiatives. And you'll probably hear much more about CHEX in the upcoming financial year. I'll quickly move ahead to our platform monetization business. Happy to share this is up about 20%, and its EBITDA is up 84%. This is a business, as you're all aware, where we leverage the assets we already have. So the more we can -- we do in this business, it comes at very high margins. We've also looked, for the first time, at onboarding partners outside the CL ecosystem in this, where we're looking at working with engineering and medical colleges to sell their forms and onboarding tuition centers for the same. And I'll quickly just wrap up by spending a few minutes on our publishing business, which has also grown by about 8%. Our total book sales so far this year are closing in on INR 5 lakhs, and specific segments that continue to do exceptionally well are RRB, GATE, CAT/CLAT books doing very well. It's been a bit of a slow season this year for UPSC, Physics Galaxy and our IELTS material, but we've tried to counter that by launching new additions in January, specifically in the Physics Galaxy and IELTS space. That's a quick wrap from me, and I'll now throw the floor over to questions. I see a bunch of them in front of me. If you'll just give me 30 seconds, I'll go through them and pick them up and throw them either to Gautam, Satya or take them myself over the next couple of minutes. Satya, Gautam, anything you'd like to add?

That's okay, Arjun. We can take the questions.

Right. Okay. A lot of congratulatory messages on the DEX deal. A lot of our consistent well-wishers over the years. There are consistent questions from [ Mathur, Garvit ], on the EdTech and the Test Prep business and what specifically we are doing to mitigate the drop in revenues in this space. GP, would you like to take that?

Has GP got disconnected, Arjun?

Let me just check.

So maybe we can take non-tech questions first and then come back once GP -- I think I can't see him on the pen.

Yes. Just a second. Sure. Satya, let me then throw one to you first. There's a question on DEX and a potential conflict of interest between our Test Prep business and the DEX assessments business.

Okay. This is something that we have been absolutely mindful of from day 0. So the areas where CL has Test Prep interest, we will not venture -- DEX will not venture into those areas at all, which are essentially the MBA, law, IPM. These constitute 95% of our portfolio as of now. And the -- so one is the choice of what products we will or we will not go. That is one. Even more important is that right from the top level Board position, including the nominees from CL operating team, we also have taken cognizance of the importance of this and created processes and the Chinese wall between the 2 businesses. So other than me, those leadership team or others who are going to be looking at test prep, they are not going to be active on the NSEIT side from Board onwards. But at an operating level, too, we have given the undertaking and we've taken internal steps over the past many months since we had the time to make sure that the conflict of interest in these 2 is close to 0.

Thanks, Satya. While I have you, there are some follow-up questions also on DEX. How is the company expected to grow in the years ahead from its current levels of INR 200 crores? It's a question from Garvit.

Okay. So Garvit, as you know, we try -- we just try to not make very specific observations about revenue projections, et cetera. However, our -- see, we are the second largest player in the market and by being only in India. And we do only about -- we do about 11 million assessments as DEX in the last 12 months. That is the number of assessments that we have done. And the market leader would be 4.5x, 5x our size. So, there is an exceptionally large room for growth at a reasonably healthy clip over the next 3 years to 5 years. And to add optimism to it, some of the largest exams have not been attempted by NSEIT DEX for various reasons. There was little bit of a pre-COVID and in-COVID and post-COVID since this asset was planned to be hived off over the last 1.5 years or 2. Some areas that are very large addressable markets, they now come into focus, and we would like to make a very strong entry into those. So, I think over the next 3 years -- 3 years to 4 years, we should look at how do we double this and also give it a very, very impactful, profitable non-India presence. While we go into penetration in India, I think there are a couple of international markets also that can be done over the next 3 years. So, doubling from here is a first station for us. How much time does it take? Let's see.

There's a host of other questions on DEX related to the financials, and I'll just take them very quickly. They're from some of our regulars like Hemant, Manan and Rahul. First of all, I'm just going to try and answer them as a consolidated set based on the questions that are there across the board. DEX will be a fully owned subsidiary of CL Educate. The company is called NSEIT Limited. It will continue to be NSEIT Limited until the name change happens. And as part of our share purchase agreement, we've worked out a deal to continue to use the name formally NSEIT for a period of 1 year. In terms of when we expect to close the transaction, as Satya mentioned, we hope to take over the Board later this month. It might take another 7 days to 10 days. We're working on it, and hope to wrap that up as soon as possible. When will it become -- when will the revenues and EBITDA start getting counted as part of CL? They will happen as soon as we take control of the company. That will become the effective date of the transaction. And from that period onwards, the specifics, revenues and EBITDA for the stub period of this year will come to us. And then from the next financial year onwards, it's completely us from day 1 onwards. More questions related to how is the performance of NSEIT in the first 9 months of the year? Because the transaction is yet to get officially completed until we take over the Board, it's not a part of our business, so we can't declare those numbers yet. But as Satya promised, we will do a specific session where we introduce you to the business teams there and talk about the performance of that business and where it is, what are our plans going forward and so on. We will cover that in a future session in the not-too-distant future. The INR 200 crores mentioned in the first slide and the 17% that Satya mentioned were numbers pertaining to the last financial year. This year's numbers could be better than that. And as soon as it is legally, we can share them, we will definitely do so. I hope I've answered all the questions on DEX that came through regarding each of these from our different...

Arjun, I think GP is getting dropped off, I think. So, let's cover the EdTech business while he's here.

Sure.

And then I'll come back to questions on Utsav. So GP, if you could, there were a few questions on the EdTech business, specifically asking about the muted growth and what are our plans to mitigate this going forward? And how do we -- how we plan to compete with the competition in this space and regain market share?

Okay. Arjun, first of all, my apologies. I was getting disconnected. So, I missed a couple of things, but I hope the question which you have asked will -- I hope my answer will cover all the issues which you have raised. First of all, when you look at Test Prep as an industry, there is definitely a pressure on the pricing and this was visible for the last couple of quarters, if not more, that the challenge was in the high-value products, not in the low-value products. In fact, a large number of students were shifting from high value to low value. When I say shifting, obviously, it's an assumption and this is based on the fact that the number of students coming for the high-value products was reducing. A second macro trend, which was clearly visible in the last 4 quarters, I would say, at least is that the large number of students are shifting towards doing preparation on their own through YouTube, free material and books, et cetera. And that is in a small way also visible from the fact that the sales of the Test Prep books through GKP has also increased significantly. Now given that situation, the reality is that high-value products will be under pressure and I don't see that pressure reducing in the next couple of quarters at least. It could be a little more than that also. The silver lining there is that the low-value products or the test series kind of products or the testing products, while preparation is an issue where a student thinks he or she can prepare on his own, on her own, but when it comes to testing, they have to come to someone like a career launcher. And that is where we have seen significant growth coming in. Products like test series have grown upwards of 20%. The negative for us is these are low-value products, but the margins are reasonably high. And if we can grow this segment significantly, it will -- in the longer term, it will be helpful for us to increase the numbers in the high-value products also because typically, what happens is many students start by saying that we will prepare on our own. And then after 1 year, when they are unsuccessful, they realize that maybe we need to join somewhere else and that is when they will look at those players first who have a good testing product, okay? So that is the situation there. So as far as MBA is concerned and even law, I would say, the top end of the market will be under pressure and the lower end of the market is where we'll have to look at volume gains and market share gains. To mitigate this, the other thing that we are doing is we are broad-basing ourselves as far as the UG is concerned. There's not too much you can do with respect to MBA because that's kind of a standalone market. But when you look at the UG, the parent and the child want to look at multiple options. So, what we had was only law or only BBA or et cetera. We are now adding a few more segments to them like hotel management, mass communication, journalism, et cetera and broad-basing the BBA product because all these exams are similar in nature. Yes, there are minor differences, but they are similar in nature. And all of them are basically testing the aptitude of the student in a specific domain. And practically, all of them are basic maths and English. So it fits in very well with the BBA products. So, we are trying to broad-base it and go deeper into that market and that is what we will be focusing on going forward at the UG level. However, we need to remember, again, this is something which will take 2 to 4 quarters. Crash course is right next to it. And the real impact of this will be visible only in the next season. Finally, we are launching a couple of new products. CSAT, we have already talked about. We are evaluating a couple of other products, where we think we can make a dent. By and large, all the products that we are looking at are aptitude-based. We are not looking at knowledge-based products at this point of time, but yes, aptitude-based product is what we are looking at in terms of adding new products. Okay. Yes, Arjun, back to you.

Thanks, GP. I think that pretty much, I think, would cover most questions that would pertain to this segment. If there's anything else later on, I'll come back to you specifically. Satya, there are a host of questions on the Utsav business, including, if you could kindly just explain how the business model works and a little bit on the unit economics and the potential margins for that business?

Okay. Arjun, do you want to now remove the slide and -- or do we need the slide?

No, I don't think we need the slide.

Maybe we can remove that. Okay. So, Arjun, we did put out a video or an information summary on the Kestone Utsav also, right, a few weeks ago about the size of the market. Did you cover in the analyst call last time?

Yes, we did. Yes. We spoke about the market potential and where we hope to be in a few years.

Right. So in the interest of time, whoever has asked this question, I would request you to kindly access that video. We had taken about 10 minutes, 15 minutes and 4, 5 slides to explain. But just to highlight a couple of important numbers in the wedding space, which is estimated between a large number, the relevant number for us for the first, at least couple of years is that there are 50,000 luxury weddings that happen in India. And the definition of luxury wedding is a spend of over INR 1.25 crores. So the thing that we are looking at is, can we build technology platform? Can we leverage the strength that Kestone has, which does a mammoth 3 events a day at an average and for top quality conscious corporates? So the one inside-out strength that we're letting play out is that a core team of 3 to 5 senior people who understand personalization, high-quality execution, operations, et cetera, they have moved into Kestone Utsav. And we have brought a couple of senior leadership members to be leading the team and saying that can we aim to do 1% of the luxury weddings in 3 to 4 years' time, which means can we build capacity and ability to do 400 to 500 weddings annually in year 3 or year 4. That's very simply gives you the back of the envelope calculation of 400 weddings at about INR 1.5 crores kind of a spend. And we are assuming that the -- in absence of having any empirical data, we are guided between what is high-value events or conferences EBITDA that we see in Kestone is what we are taking as the starting point, which is a 10% to 12% EBITDA is what we are thinking, but maybe it can get better if we do a few things that we are wanting to do. The most important thing in the go-to-market actually, if you look at is, to be able to successfully bring brand play, technology play and personalization play and emerge as a thought leader, thought leading and from planning to end execution partner for a family for a wedding or since we are calling it broadly as a social events thing, the other thing that we intend to focus on in the first couple of years is, as you know, wedding, is in India, more of an October to March phenomenon. And in order to manage the seasonality, the other thing that we intend to do is look at the large-format campus festivals and campus events in the June to October season. It could be, for instance, as you know, large-format college festivals, for example, or alumni reunions, the Silver Jubilee, the Golden Jubilee reunions or the Mood Indigo or Oasis or Mardi Gras. These are all these days a INR 10 crores to INR 15 crores to INR 20 crores events. So, we are thinking how do we add season 1, first half of the season, these kind of events and season 2 could be weddings and concerts and so on. So, I'll pause there. Any more details of it, happy to respond if he leaves a bunch of FAQs and answer it in greater detail.

Sure. Thanks, Satya. A couple of questions that I'll quickly just take, and then we'll try and wrap up today's session. There's a question on the GST notice that we've received. Just a quick update on the same. This is a demand notice. We had received a show-cause notice on the same in the last financial year in March. We had appealed that, and we had gone through the process of contesting it using our lawyers, Lakshmikumaran. We have now received a demand notice on the same. It pertains to a matter of composite supply books and coaching services should have the same GST rate applicable. The same matter came up during the service tax regime, and we won that matter at the Supreme Court level where the courts ruled in our favor using the same lawyers. And our lawyers remain confident that the same stand and the same stance will apply in this case as well, and that we have nothing to worry about in this specific case. But as a matter of diligence, we have shared that information with the stock exchanges and obviously, made that available to all investors as well. There are also a lot of follow-up questions on the DEX business on how we are funding the acquisition. As we had shared previously, we are using a mix of debt and equity. We will continue to -- we will share more specific details on that when we do the specific DEX session on conclusion of the transaction. But what we can -- since there are a lot of questions at what rate we are borrowing, durations, all of that, I understand this is something you would like to know about, and we'll cover it in due course. We'll do a separate session on the same. Just on an overall basis, where we have borrowed funds from The Piramal Group, which has led a consortium, and we have negotiated good competitive rates from them. More details will follow in the session we hold in a couple of weeks' time. If there are no more questions, we will pause here. Right. Okay. Thank you all very much for attending today's call. We look forward to interacting with you over the coming weeks and of course, seeing you come the end of the season when we wrap up FY '25. Thank you, Satya. Thank you, Gautam, for joining in today, and have a good day, everyone.

Thank you, and goodbye.

Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, Arjun.