Coinbase Global, Inc. (COIN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Okay. So up next, we have Alesia Haas, CFO of Coinbase. Alesia joined the company in 2018 and since then has built the, I would say, preeminent U.S. crypto exchange and infrastructure business with aspirations across much of the crypto ecosystem. Thanks so much for joining us. Before we get started, I'd like to remind you that during today's discussion, Coinbase may make forward-looking statements. Actual results may vary materially from today's statements. Information concerning risks, uncertainties and other factors that could cause these results to differ is included in Coinbase's SEC filings. The discussion today will also include references to certain non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures are provided in the shareholder letter on the company's Investor Relations website. Non-GAAP financial measures should be considered in addition to, but not as a substitute for GAAP measures.

All right. Alesia. Let's start with the regulatory backdrop. I tried to it quick.

Okay, let's do it. I love it. I'm sure everyone loves our legal disclaimer. I'm sure. They're great.

We have to read a lot of disclosures too, so I've gotten good at being quick. Okay. So maybe let's turn to regulation on that note. Maybe just a mark-to-market on the regulatory backdrop today. We've now seen 3 different drafts of the market structure bill, and they're a little bit different. So maybe what are the key items you're looking for in the Clarity Act? And maybe any perspective on when we might see this finalized?

No, great question. So just zooming out, as we entered the year with the tailwinds of regulatory clarity in the new administration, there are 2 acts that we were seeking. One was Genius Act, which was passed earlier this year, which gave us market rules around stablecoins. And since that point, you've seen just a proliferation of stablecoin activity. Market caps are up, trading volumes are up in stablecoin, payments are up. We can talk about that later. But the second important regulatory act that we are looking for is the CLARITY Act. And the CLARITY Act, we often refer to as the Market Structure Act. What this is trying to achieve is clarity as to the taxonomy of assets, definitions around what is a security, what is a commodity, what is a network token, i.e., something that looks like Ethereum, which is used for gas and staking. So taxonomy around the assets, it gives clarity as to then what the SEC will oversee, what the CFTC will oversee. It provides durability of this. It would leave us with more confidence to be able to innovate here in the U.S. because we would not be subject to administration changes and the various financial services regulators saying, you may do this, you may not do this. So Congress needs to act in order to provide that just durability for American innovation for us to move our road map. We are looking for clarity around consumer protection. What does that mean for crypto? What does the AML rules mean, what are strong AML but workable AML? How do we continue to have innovation here in the U.S. and just making sure that we then have these very clear delineations, I think, between the SEC and the CFTC to take away some of the ambiguity of like the gray space that was existing where we don't have rules around, no, this is my app to regulate, no, this is my app to regulate. So that's we're looking for. And we have seen drafts. There is strong bipartisan support here, which we're really grateful for. It's important to note that we had bipartisan support with the GENIUS Act earlier this year. But also last year, when FIT21 passed through the House Financial Services Committee, which was the market structure in the old administration, we had a lot of bipartisan support. So optimistic. We're making progress, hopefully, early next year, but we don't get the control of the time lines that we see like we do our own product road map. So harder to put a pin in.

Makes sense. Okay. So we've also seen in recent weeks, a notable sell-off in crypto market cap. And on our math, industry trading volumes are down 27% quarter-to-date annualized. And might disagree with my numbers. And that's versus up roughly 25% through the first quarters of the year, 3 quarters of the year. Maybe you could just reflect on the activity you've seen across the platform. How has risk appetite changed? And maybe you could also, within that answer, comment a little bit on retail versus institutional. And then maybe also comment a little bit on what we're seeing on chain, such as DeFi projects.

Sure. So on October 10, there was a market incident where a bad data feed resulted in a sharp sell-off. I would say that volatility is not new to crypto. And what we were really proud of for our own platform is that the investments we've made in our products, we maintained uptime, we were able to navigate this. And the reality is we're business as usual at Coinbase. The sharp sell-off in certain DeFi protocols did result in auto deleveraging on certain platforms. So those platforms that pulled those price seeds and then got the bad price seat that then said, this asset is worth less, they deleveraged and they sold off assets. That did not happen on our platform. We do not have as highly levered products in our products and our customers. So I think it's a credit to, one, our risk management; two, the durability of our controls with multiple price seeds to be able to ensure that we are getting good market structure. I think it goes to support the importance of market structure and regulatory clarity on what controls are needed to have safe, healthy markets. And I think that, again, for us, we were business as usual. We did not see significant deleveraging. And this is why disclosures, this is why people need to understand the counterparties that they are transacting with and the risk that they're transacting with across the overall crypto ecosystem.

Recent events aside, maybe we can turn a little bit to your core business and in particular, retail spot trading. Can you talk a little bit about how the competitive environment -- or talk a little bit about the competitive environment and how that's evolved? And then maybe just thinking about monetization as more options enter space.

Okay. Let's talk about retail fees. We always get to talk about retail fees. So let me talk about competition first. Well, a few years ago, we were out here saying crypto everyone going to trade crypto and everyone's like a Coinbase is trading crypto on your platform. And what is like wonderful to see is that lots of now fintechs and traditional financial services players going, oh, I think my customers want to trade crypto. How am I going to offer trading crypto within my products and services? So one, I think crypto has really arrived in the mainstream. I think this has now proven itself as an asset class that many individuals, corporates, governments, businesses, I think financial services providers want to trade, want access to in various shapes and forms. So not only do we have spot, we now have ETFs, we now have digital asset treasury. We just have any wrapper that you can think of like let's trade crypto. So the market is definitely getting more robust, and there's many more participants in the market. What I'll share, though, is that we are probably the most diverse platform, meaning that we are offering a series of products and services to a much wider consumer business developer set than any other product. So we do have competition, but we tend to see one-to-one. So we'll have competition for our custody business alone or we'll have competition for our retail trading business or we'll have competition for our institutional. So we are definitely seeing competitors come into various things, but we do not see anybody that is competing with us on the breadth of the product offering that we go to market with. But what I do think this shows is that we're seeing maturation. This is good for customers. This is good for maturity of the space and the building of the overall market, and we'll need to continue to compete. What this means for fees -- we long have said, since we went public, for any of us, those of you who have followed us since our roadshow or since before, we have been asked about retail spread compression and the retail fees. We have yet to see it be the deciding factor in how consumers choose platforms. I absolutely believe, I have believed for as long as I've been in this seat that when you see commoditization, you will see fee compression. When you see the comparable products offered in many places that, that will naturally then shift the decision point of consumers to choose fees as a deciding factor versus to date, it's been the product, it's been the breadth of the offering. It's been trust. It's been safety. How do I safely ensure that I sleep at night knowing my crypto loan gets stolen. Those are the things that we really engage and transact with customers on. So we have continued to experiment with our fees. We've raised our fees since going public. Our competitors have raised their fees over the last 2 years. So I do not think this is going to be near term. But because of this risk, we've been focused on diversifying our revenues. And we've been really growing our nontrading revenue businesses for the last few years as well. So if you look back over the last 3 to 4 years, when we went public, it was 4% of our total revenue came from subscription and services revenue. Given volatility of trading fees, some quarters, it's 50%. Some quarters, it's a little bit more than 50%. But we've really seen nice sequential growth of those revenues, and that's what we're focused on, diversification of revenues, ensuring that we are growing that customer relationship on the retail side, that they're doing multiple things with us. We're excited about Coinbase One's offering and continuing to grow that subscriber base of business, and we'll adapt and watch the market.

Makes sense. So we'll touch on subscription services in a little bit, but I do want to just touch on a little bit more of the growth in the core business. And I think derivatives is one of the exciting growth areas within the core. And so maybe just an update on the growth of derivatives now that you've integrated the business with Deribit and having -- I guess having both businesses, what does that mean for growth? And then finally, I know there's a lot of questions, but how developed are the products you're building using Deribit's tech in the U.S.?

Okay. If I forget one of those subquestions, like push me on that because there's a lot of a little unpack there. So derivatives trading. We've talked a lot about derivatives trading outside the United States being the predominant volume in the crypto market. Coinbase introduced a product about 1.5 years ago for international growth. And we've also then brought a product to the U.S. over the last year. We were the first to bring perpetual trading -- perpetual futures to the U.S. And that has been growing nicely. That's a market that we are growing the TAM. So there was no existing players, no products, and we are steadily growing that volume in the U.S. Outside the U.S., over the course of this year, our focus has been building liquidity, depth of market, onboarding customers, bringing our product to parity with the global product set. And what we've seen over the course of the year is that we've been able to then reduce the rebates and incentives that we had been offering in order to really build that liquidity and onboard participants into our markets, and we're steadily now gaining share. That organic growth, combined with the acquisition of Deribit, we only closed Deribit in August. I love that you said that it's integrated. We are not so magic that we've integrated within 3 months. So this is going to be a multi-quarter integration of this new option platform into our product set. But now our vision is to bring spot futures and options all within one interface, so our institutional clients can trade that entire set of assets. That's going to be multiple quarters, but we are on a very steady track to bring that product. Bringing options into the U.S. is also on the road map. But first, we're going to get the international product set integrated then subsequently. So a multi-quarter initiative to bring those to the U.S. and to the retail customers. I think you've covered all the questions.

So maybe just one more on derivatives, which is the revenue profile in the organic business. I think you just touched a little bit on the rebates. But maybe you could just contextualize for us how we should think about, I guess, the time period over which you would expect this to start to really contribute materially to results as you wind down those incentives.

All right. Well forward-looking statement land in here. So all of those comments that we made earlier around our legal disclaimers. Look, this year has been about building the product and the foundations and building that liquidity. So we think based on our Q3 comments that we've been able to start to tail down those rebates and incentives. So we're looking with cautious optimism with the combination of options and on the same platform with being able to see the market share gains that we've had that we are setting the course for a very solid growth here next year, but that's going to depend a lot on how the markets evolve. So still new, still new.

Fair enough. You actually brought up digital asset treasuries. I'd just love to just get your perspective on how you service those clients, where they touch your business. And obviously, there's been a little bit of disruption there. So does that change the way you're thinking about that client set?

So that client, no different than any other client, some of the core products and services that they need when they are touching crypto, they need to custody those crypto assets and they need to acquire those crypto assets to sit within the funds. And so one, we offer custody to some of those companies. Two, because we have the deepest order books and markets in the United States, like oftentimes, we're either directly enabling those companies to buy via our platform or market makers who might supply them are then trading on our exchange in order to supply those assets into those funds. So indirectly, directly in many ways that we're back-end service provider to the growth of that market.

Okay. Perfect. So let's turn to subscription services. I look at the big areas of focus seem to be stablecoin, staking, lending and then base. And so maybe we go through each one of those in turn. Maybe let's start with staking. How do you think about penetration of staking? Are there other asset classes you're working on building out? And how should we think about the road map for staking?

So staking is about a $700 million last 12-month business for us. We have an opportunity to continue to deepen the staking penetration of assets on our platform. So we are not 100% stake. Our clients have not all chosen to stake on our platform. So that is one growth vehicle. Two, we just got approval from regulators to be able to enable the ETFs to stake the assets underlying ETFs. So as the ETFs, specifically the Ethereum ETFs have grown, those now can become stackable assets. Three, new blockchains, there's been a proliferation of new blockchains. Many of those are going to become proof-of-stake consensus mechanisms. And so as those blockchains grow with their development and assets, that becomes a new channel for potential staking growth as well. So -- and then last, some of you remember when the SEC sued us, we had 10 states with follow-on actions that said see staking in our states. We've now unlocked 5 of those states to say like we can revisit. But if we drop those suits in additional 5 states, including the state of New York, we will be able to then grow staking in those states.

You're a leader in crypto prime brokerage already. Maybe you could just help us think through the growth prospects in prime and what you still need to build there obviously more nascent product than retail trading, I think, across the industry. So do you think you have adequate financing capacity for this business today after the convert a few months ago? And how should we think about financing cadence going forward?

Sorry. So when we talk about Prime, we think about Prime to be the combination of our institutional trading, for custody and then prime financing. So we're bringing those 3 things together underlying that Prime product. We absolutely now have that product built and we are seeing great organic growth of that product, and we're seeing more and more clients choose to adopt financing as part of their trading strategies. We offer a series of financing products, everything from trade finance, which is when -- crypto markets are 24/7, they're instant settlement. So when a client, for example, an ETF issuer, needs to buy the Bitcoin Ethereum to underlie their ETFs. They need to either pre-fund or seek trade finance from Coinbase and settle out whenever their wire clears, hours or days later. So those are very quick term loans. We also offer margin trading and so we can trade with collateral. All of our loans are collateralized. They have often excess collateral. We're a collateral manager. Those are all on our platform. We've never taken a credit loss. We don't have a credit provision due to the collateral that we hold against these assets. We bootstrapped this lending growth through our own balance sheet through the cash that we've issued through our converts and other debt offerings. We had on average about $1 billion outstanding in the third quarter of loans. That's up about 20% year-to-date. And we do have capacity with the recent debt to continue to scale this. However, we're also starting to build out rehypothecation applications. And this is only for institutional to institutional. This is on a fully opt-in, disclosed basis. So we are not rehypothecating without customer consent. We are not touching our retail funds. But if the institutions choose to say, yes, I'd like to yield. I'd like to be able to lend out my assets, they can opt into that program, and then we can use that as additional assets to the fund loans. So we're building out that product and liquidity for a 2-sided marketplace and using our own corporate assets to drive this growth. And that's how I think we'll scale on a longer-term basis.

Makes sense. Let's turn to the Layer 2 protocol base. Could you just remind us of your goals for the infrastructure layer? And I would note that I think you've continued to reduce fees on base over time. So how do you think about monetizing this versus making it decentralized?

We hope to do all of the above. We hope it's decentralized, we hope it's monetized, and we hope to grow it. So our layer 2 protocol Base is a chain. It's a messaging layer, it's a network. It's how we transact and we built Base to be fast, to be cheap, to be global, to be able to serve all of the payment use cases that we saw, the trading use cases, in our own platform, we are growing USDC on Base as an example. So we have over $15 billion of USDC on Base. And then when we can send USDC peer-to-peer for milliseconds, milli-cents instant confirms for all intents and purposes and fractions of pennies of cost to be able to transact on chain. The goal of lowering the fees, in part is we are working on scaling. There is no limit to scaling. We have not found an upper bound. It is just a matter of to invest and scale this network. And in doing so, bringing those fees down. Much like how texting became free and over time, if you all remember, you used to pay for texting, you still have like a package of how many texts you can send a month. For those of us who are old enough in the room to remember this. But then when it became free, we texted a lot more. We sent like hundreds, if not thousands of texts a day. We think that, that will have a lot more payments. As you reduce the fee and make these things basically milli-cents like so cheap, you can send micro payments. you can pay on a consumption basis, you can change the nature of how we use and transact in money. So in part, we believe that just lowering friction, making this easy to adopt for developers who are then integrating crypto payments and Base into their app will open up then the aperture of what they can create. Bringing developers to Base, creating this infrastructure to be very flexible and meet their needs is the foremost goal right now. So over time, when we believe that we can drive meaningful volume, that volume even if it's for fractions of a penny will drive revenue. But most importantly for us at Coinbase and for others, we really hope that most of the revenue growth is through indirect revenue. So as I mentioned, USDC on Base we can monetize or you can transact within apps and build that on a Base. The more apps we build on Base, for example, in our own beta-based app where it's an aggregation layer to introduce lots of DeFi protocols to our users, we can run advertising revenue. So we have other ways that we really seek to monetize and really think of Base as a utility, as an ecosystem layer that we would like to drive interoperability and network effect to enable lots of developers to build on chain.

You talked about payments a little bit. I'd just love to get your perspective on stablecoins and how that market develops. And you've already started to see a little bit of fragmentation in stablecoins. And I still think we haven't seen full clarity on what banks can do, what Big Tech can do in the space. So how do you think about stablecoin market structure, if I were to call it that. And then how do you think about your role in this? Obviously, you have USDC, you're very involved in USDC, but you started to see the proliferation of stablecoin service providers. So how do you think about the ways in which Coinbase can be involved in the stablecoin ecosystem?

So we're going to be customer-led, and we want to list everything on our platform that is safe and legal to do so, and then we'll enable our customers to dictate how they want to transact in crypto. To this point, USDC has been the asset of choice for many of our market makers and those in the U.S. who are looking to use it for their trading and for our DeFi apps, we're looking to really integrate that because I have the deepest liquidity. In the U.S. no other stablecoin has really reached escape velocity in terms of market cap or volume that it can be really ubiquitously used across these platforms. In the international markets, obviously, Tether is the largest most liquid stablecoin. And so between Tether and USDC, that really drives what you see today as stablecoin volume. There has been a proliferation of additional stablecoins and lots of conversations. I think like any new technology, you tend to see fragmentation and then you see consolidation. So I think we're in a fragmentation where we're going to see if any of these new stable points get adopted by customers and develop enough liquidity that they become in regular business flows. We will, as I mentioned, follow our customers in doing so. We are not exclusive to any single stablecoin and would look to strike commercial agreements with things that we think make sense for customer growth. Our role because of our large distribution, because we have many customers on our platform and because of our links with the decentralized protocols, gives us a unique role to play in this space. We're a distributor. And so at least in the U.S. markets today, large stablecoins would need to kind of transact with us because of our connection through the ecosystem in order to really gain that large volume in.

Okay. Maybe on the base app, can you just walk us through the key components that you're planning to build there first? And then how you think about scaling, rolling out new features and monetizing the app?

A little early to have this conversation because we have an app in beta that hasn't been released at this point in time. But the -- if you've seen Jesse Pollak. He is one of our most bold product managers. He's everywhere on. He's everywhere in the market. So you probably have heard what he said in many forums. But what we're really looking to build is that aggregation layer. We're really looking to build a single self-custody, on-chain application where you can run your entire on-chain existence. It will have the ability to trade, the ability to buy and sell any asset, the ability to have contact points and social messaging, payments, identity, all embedded in one curated experience. So that is what we are building. There'll be more to come as that really gets released into the market. there's over 1 million on the wait list. And for the customers that are in beta, we're getting incredibly positive feedback. So we're excited about its potential, but very early days. So more to come in future quarters.

Maybe dovetailing the app with Coinbase One. Maybe you could just talk a little bit about the subscription model that you're rolling out, your aspirations there and how you plan to drive the adoption.

All right. Two different things. The Base app self-custody, Coinbase One, a subscription product for the custody product. So our custody product is where Coinbase is holding your key. Coinbase is responsible to make sure those keys do not get stolen from you. We offer very similar things you can buy and sell, thousands of crypto assets. We've now integrated with DEX trading. So not only do you have access to the 300 assets that we've listed on our centralized exchange, you've got access to 40,000 other assets, so it's a longer tail of crypto. So broad access to buy and sell, discover. You can stake your assets. You can make payments in USDC. You can do many similar things, no social aspects on Coinbase right now, but it is unique to the Base app. But Coinbase One then is a subscription product that takes away your trading fees, that offers you special access to the Coinbase Card, which we can talk about, which I think has been a great success of ours, differentiated customer support, different account protection. And we're seeing a lot of nice growth there. And more importantly, customers of Coinbase One tend to transact with more products on our platform and drive more activity across the product fleet.

So you brought up the Coinbase Card. So maybe we could just touch a little bit on that. Do you view that as a customer acquisition tool? How do you link it into -- or how do you embed that into bringing more customer engagement onto the platform?

We absolutely view it as a customer acquisition tool. As when we launch the Coinbase Card, we saw both brand-new customers as well as inactive customers get the card and become more active. So what is unique about the Coinbase Card? It's a partnership with Amex. So we are not taking credit risk on our platform. So it is really a customer acquisition vehicle. But it uniquely offers Bitcoin Rewards. And what we're hearing from our customers is this card is becoming top of wallet. They love the ability to spend and earn up to 4% Bitcoin back, which is a differentiated reward system in the overall card universe. And it becomes a passive asset that can grow over time versus other payment point systems which broadly can be viewed as things that could depreciate in value over time or your points have less purchasing power. And so we think that we've positioned this really nicely with unique benefits, and as a result, are seeing nice customer adoption and growth. that also grows the Coinbase One membership because to get the card, you have to become a Coinbase One member.

Okay. So I know there's more products coming in addition to all the ones we went through. So I'm not going to try to get into any of those, but I do just want to ask about tokenization at a high level. And more in the sense of how do you think about what tokenization of equities means for market structure? And then specifically, how do you think that the fact that the offerings are somewhat different and not necessarily interoperable that issue gets solved in terms of -- I guess the interoperability problem gets resolved.

Between equities and crypto, commodities. Tokenized equities and regular equities or tokenized equities and crypto commodities?

I guess you can do both.

Any of the permutations and how this works together?

I think there are questions on both, honestly.

Okay. Gosh, there's so many [indiscernible], we can go down here. Let's see if I pick the right one. What I want to say about tokenized equities is we have not yet seen tokenized equities in the market yet. And that is because we are still working with the SEC to gain clarity on how market structure will work. And so it's a little bit to be determined, not able to be answered yet. So a lot of folks, us included, are working on product innovation at the kind of frontier of crypto securities -- I'm sorry, equity securities, on chain. And things that you have to answer is how do you think about can a tokenized security transact in DeFi. How did the AML rules follow on? How do you pay dividends if it's in a self-hosted wallet. How do you think about corporate action? So these are the types of conversations that are being held with the SEC and other market participants to think through these permutations. I think there's also a lot of questions around will you tokenize an existing security? And do you want a tokenized security and a regular security to trade and how does that work if the market gaps. If they unpeg from one another, will enough market makers participate on both sides to create market efficiency? These are things that -- versus new native on chain securities where you don't have an analogous asset in the traditional way. So lots of conversations are being had about these market structure rules, and there's not yet answers. We are excited to be driving this conversation and excited to bring forth products, and I think that we will have more to share in coming weeks, if not months.

I look forward to it.

But I want to like pencil, we do have a product announcement event on December 17 that we would invite you all to tune in on. We have been head down deep at work for the last 2 quarters on some new asset categories to expand out the tradable assets on our platform and our vision of what we call the everything hand we'll be making updates to that and sharing those all with you on December 17.

Great. Let's turn to investment. So on the last earnings call, you indicated that the sequential rate of operating expense growth was slow as compared to your 4Q '25 rate of growth. Maybe if there's any possibility if you could provide a little texture on the moving parts of the expense base. I'm not trying to forward guidance, but just how we should think about the different pieces of your expenses around investments versus run the business? Maybe that's a good way to put it.

Sure. So 2025, as we characterize for many of you was an investment year. As we saw regulatory clarity on the horizon, we saw the opportunity to expand out the investable assets. We really made a number of new investments in the platform, taking out new product capabilities to shore up our foundations to expand the platform quite candidly, to be able to handle the volatility of the October 10 day without having any downtime. So this was an investment year. We've grown headcount over 20% through the third quarter. We also did the acquisition of Deribit, we've done the acquisition of Echo. These both contribute a lot of headcount. And so as we're sharing with you on December 17, there's a lot of products went from 0 to 1 this year. 0 to 1 products, the expense perceives the revenue because we had like get some bills. As we look forward to the first quarter of 2026, we really think of that as digestion. As we go into 2026, we're digesting the growth that we absorbed in 2025. We are going to focus on scaling new products that went from 0 to 1 to get them to 1 to 10. We are going to focus on bringing everybody kind of to their full potential at Coinbase, making sure that those folks that have been with us 3 months are operating the same speed of those that have been with us for 2 years. And so we will see sequential growth Q1 versus Q4, but at a much, much more moderate level. So really think of it as a digestion year with more moderate growth where 2025 was a big investment year.

Is there any reason to think that as you migrate the business from being more trading to being more subscription services, that would have any impact on your margin profile? Or are you seeing similar margins obviously, adjusting for the cyclicality of -- across both of the keys.

Yes. We have really strong unit economics. We look for all products to have positive unit economics. Some products for example, the credit card, we are treating as a customer acquisition vehicle. And so we think of it as stapled into then the Coinbase One subscription product, which then we look at those overall economics. So some products have various margin, but we think that we are going to run a very healthy EBITDA and margin business on an adjusted basis for the full product portfolio. The goal here though is a more diversified revenue to create less volatility in the top line.

Makes sense. Okay. So we're almost out of time here. So maybe just as a wrap-up. So 2025 has been a transformative year for the industry and for Coinbase itself. You talked about all these products that you're rolling out, the diversification of revenue. So what should we be looking forward to in 2026? And what are you most excited about for next year?

It has been a year. I mean there's been a pendulum shift on the regulatory environment. We went from no innovation to let's have commercial rational conversations about what is possible, incredible change. We have the start of the year, we didn't have perpetual futures yet, we didn't have options. And by the time we end the year with our new product announcements, we're going to have materially expanded the tradable assets on our platform. We're excited about that as going into 2026 with a much wider product set available to our customers. We are excited to see the continuation of the regulatory clarity, where I think that we will have market structure, hopefully in the early half of 2026. We are excited to see quite candidly, the continued intersection of opportunity with AI to make us more efficient and AI and crypto coming together with the things we didn't talk about today was with 402 and agentic commerce and how you we are bringing for the product to enable agents to transact with wallets on chain. Those things starting to take little seeds will tiny seeds that are being planted, but we're seeing some good organic kind of adoption, not monetized well. This is just infrastructure that needs to be built to open up the ability for these types of payments activity. So a lot of seeds planted this year. A lot of new kind of 0 to 1, as I mentioned, and I'm excited for those things to take shape next year.

Okay. Well, with that, we're about out of time. So, Alesia, thank you so much.

Thank you so much, James. Happy holidays to everybody. Good to see you all. Thank you.

Thank you.