Commerce.com, Inc. (CMRC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Raymond James Technology Conference in 2020. Very happy to have BigCommerce here with us. We have CEO, Brent Bellm; and CFO, Robert Alvarez. We're going to kick off with a fireside chat. But Brent, I think most people are pretty familiar with BigCommerce, but maybe provide a brief intro of the company and some recent developments post the IPO this year.

Yes. We're a software-as-a-service platform that businesses around the world use to create and run their e-commerce stores. So from the design, hosting, catalog management, order processing, all of that flows through BigCommerce. We're the world's second largest software-as-a-service platform, and we are differentiated by what we call open SaaS. Open SaaS is basically our approach to SaaS software that provides at the enterprise functionality and the openness via APIs, software development kits, to be flexible to meet the needs of more complex established, advanced or fast-growing businesses. We think we're the world's best at serving all the way from upper SMB to mid-market and large enterprise with this open SaaS strategy.

Okay. Great. And so I think maybe start at a high level on industry dynamics. We've seen a massive shift towards e-commerce in 2020. But Brent or RA, how would you guys characterize this? We've seen pulling forward multiple years of demand. There's a retail reconstitution. Like, I guess, as we go through the pandemic, what would you say about characterizing this demand for e-commerce that we've seen in 2020?

Yes. I mean, in the simplest terms for consumers being able to buy online has become always a matter of survival as a lot of local stores have partially or fully closed. And people have wanted to adopt safer measures for providing for themselves and their families. And for businesses, especially the late adopters, it has become essential, again, to their survival and their future strategy. Not only as they see their own physical world activities challenged, but also those of their business partners and their sales channels. We think that -- I mean, if you just look at the numbers, e-marketer predicts that business-to-consumer e-commerce will grow at about 32% in the U.S. this year, that's up from a trend line of 14%. So if you kind of adjust for those first couple of months of the year when there was no pandemic, it's really almost 2.5 years' worth of e-commerce adoption advancement in this 1 year. And there's an expectation that we'll further grow on top of this next year, whether by the same rate as pre trendline or not is hard to imagine. But there's no doubt in anyone's minds whether you're a company selling to consumers directly or you're selling to other businesses, digital transformation has gone from being important mission-critical and for consumers, it's just very much a way of life these days. All of our futures are really heavily related to and embedded with e-commerce and we're proud to serve this mission of helping businesses everywhere to adapt to this new reality.

And so Brent, I mean, it's funny you used the word survival that you needed it to survive for the consumers. I'm curious what the businesses think at this point, right? Is there's some ability to kind of migrate platforms? But are there a lot of potential customers out there that had a legacy platform or something didn't work this year that are kind of, all right, let's go back and reevaluate. Is that kind of where we are in this process? Or is that something that's going to take multiple years to play out?

It's still going to take multiple years. We had a stat in our S1 that surveyed hundreds of business-to-business sellers, for example. Half of them said they were doing any e-commerce of any type, let alone having e-commerce enabled every part of their business, meaning every product line, every geography, every sales channel. And that hasn't suddenly and miraculously changed in the last 7 months. Now there has been a giant rush of late adopters to get online. However, even with a lot of these late adopters, you'll see them maybe opening up their first store or 2 or taking on their first sales channel. That's a very different thing than trying to digitally enable every product line, every customer segment, every geography that you sell into. And we own -- just look at the statistics, what percentage of U.S. B2C or retail spending is online. And even in this crazy pandemic year, if it had been -- it was in the 18% range. So we're nowhere close to where it could be 30%, 40%, 50% in time. That's on the consumer side. And on the business side, I would suspect we can get to similar types of percentages. We're a long way off from that. And so, I think one of the reasons why we're so excited about this industry and why investors would look at it as a good one to be in, is rarely in human history, has there been such a large, global upheaval in how business is conducted as the rise of e-commerce, and we are still early innings. If we're still 20%-ish of consumer and business spending. There shouldn't be any question about whether we'll grow to 30%, 40%, 50% in the coming years. And the question is simply how do you, as a service provider like us, best serve that industry or as an investor, take advantage of it. But it's still very early innings.

And Brent, I'd be curious, I think a lot of -- we hear HomeGoods has been a very hot category, right? As you're working from home, home projects, are there certain categories that haven't been big parts of e-commerce in the past that you think will be going forward? And maybe shifting away from retail and [ on-premise ], going into the store and buying online. I'm curious, where you going to see in terms of end markets that are kind of the biggest opportunities over the next few years?

I would say that the biggest laggard overall is still probably B2B. And B2B isn't a category, it's just a -- it's a way of selling to other businesses. You could be a manufacturer and selling a consumer products to consumers where you can sell it to a distributor, in which case, it's B2B, a wholesaler or retailer. But in general, the B2B economy is much larger than the B2C economy because there are so many intermediary steps where goods are sold. And it is -- it's still much further behind and predicted to grow faster in the coming years than B2C. Within B2C categories, the biggest laggard up until, ironically, the pandemic would have been grocery, kind of followed like I would say, pharmacy and things like that. The things that were most convenient for people to buy in their local stores. Probably DIY would be #3 but with the pandemic, grocery is surely catapulted. We've got lots of customers who are trying to solve pharmacy opportunities. DIY is probably still the biggest laggard though just because of the size and difficulty of shipping a lot of what it sells.

But I was going to ask -- oh, sorry, Brent.

Sporting goods, apparel, home and garden, automotive parts, all those categories are off the charts growth this year -- consumer electronics.

What is -- and so I was going to ask -- I was going to ask a B2B later, but we've brought it up a couple of times already. So just thinking about the size of that, like any help in understanding the B2B opportunity today versus B2C? And what has been the impediment to B2B adoption? I'm curious like why hasn't that taken off as much as B2C has?

In terms of size, it depends how you are measuring. If you measure it based on actual GMV, meaning the amount of sales running through the sites, we've seen a number of articles actually argue that B2B is now larger than B2C in GMV. Smaller in terms of penetration, but larger in GMV aggregate dollars sold online. However, the actual amount that B2B companies spend on their e-commerce sites, meaning what is revenue for platform providers like us. It's more like 1/3 B2C and 2/3 -- sorry, 1/3 B2B and 2/3 B2C because B2C sellers tend to spend more on their platforms, more on their user experience. There are many smaller ones. B2B sites tend to be larger than B2C sites. And again, there for less platform spend per dollar of GMV. That's a rough sizing of the opportunity. Why are they slower? I mean, geez, you have to have technology systems to run your company if you are a retailer. You've got to run your point of sale, you've got to run your catalog and your inventory. And so even offline B2C sellers already had a technology foundation for [indiscernible] their stores. B2B companies oftentimes are still working in the world of paper and bulk orders, purchase orders, invoices and all this kind of stuff. And oftentimes, very little is electronified. There are also more repeat relationships where people are just comfortable going back to the folks they know and buy from rather than going through an in personal process online. But what's changing B2C the most before the pandemic was simply consumer expectations. Humans get used to shopping online. They like the convenience, they like the speed. Why do I need to go through this crazy "purchase process" with invoicing and all of this? Why can't I just go on and reorder, I need this quick, right? I want to order this off hours. So expectations among consumers for a better shopping experience with an online catalog that's attractive. It's really very much bleeding into B2B, but pandemic makes that gradual set of change catalyst move. Now if you're a B2B company, your offline sales channels are probably shut down in some cases or hindered by the coronavirus, and you got to adapt and get an online sales side up.

And so maybe talk about the value of the platform, specifically for the B2B use cases. And you're thinking about maybe that B2C has a little bit more established, even if it's not modern. But the flexibility and the differences in the industry. So do you feel like the BigCommerce platform is maybe better suited for B2B than some of the other offerings in the market today?

Well, there's no question about that, of the generalist e-commerce platforms that were originally created for B2C use cases like us. If you now go to the experts who rate B2B platforms, and I'm talking specifically about for example, Forrester, Gartner, IDC and Paradigm, who only does B2B platform evaluations. We had a clean sweep this year of strong performer ratings in all of those evaluations, meaning in every single one of them, Forrester for B2B platforms, IDC for B2B platforms. In the Paradigm combine, we won awards in 7 out of 10 categories. And the only other generalist platform who outperforms us in those ratings is Magento. And Magento, again, is on-premise, Open Source or SaaS and what we call Open Saas. So it's 2 very different models. But we're the two platforms that are have enough advanced functionality and flexibility and openness to solve a wide variety of B2B use cases. Some of our chief competitors like Shopify doesn't appear on any of those reports because they don't have the functionality or the flexibility and openness for B2B use cases. Salesforce when it appears, it's their CloudCraze acquisition, not Salesforce Cloud, which used to be demandware. So yes, I mean, we very much have learned from the Magento example. For folks who are unfamiliar with Magento, they started around 2008 as an open source platform. Within the span of about 5 years, they went from nonexistent to the world's largest platform, B2C and B2B, small, medium and large, in all the major geographies. And we learned from that because it was the openness and the advanced capabilities to serve all these different use cases that we're doing for the first time in Saas. This is why we call it Open SaaS to compete with Open Source. They're now owned by Adobe and fundamentally have the wrong model for the future because it's on-premise. But the reason I'm emphasizing Magento is our strategy in B2B is just like theirs. We both started as B2C platforms originally and have heavily relied on our ecosystem of technology partners to add extensions to solve things like CPQ and invoicing and advanced product and catalog management, order management. We rely on the ecosystem for a lot of these very specific point solutions for B2B and then the platform itself brings in all of the general e-commerce capability, plus a bunch of very advanced things that we have natively built like our support for customer groups and priceless.

So I'll hit the last one, B2B, I promise. But just any help on understanding -- because I think you kind of mentioned the price point per dollar of GMV. I don't know if RA wants to take this one, but how does the B2B upsell motion or kind of ramp look relative to B2C customers? Maybe it's too early, but I guess I'm trying to think, hey, if you get in, in one use case or area, does that expand across brands like it does for B2C? Or any help on understanding that there?

That's actually -- I like that question a lot. I think the answer is it may not quite the same way that B2C does. In B2B, you get such very specific complexities and use cases. And we won't be able to solve all of them all the time, especially since we are not a purpose-built B2B platform. So in other words, will we ever get brought into a B2B company and run the table on all of their e-commerce initiatives, the way we have with some of the world's largest consumer companies. It's a good question. We were once brought in and chosen to be that platform for one of the world's largest industrial companies, but then their e-commerce transformation stalled, not because of us. So it's a good question, whether we're quite as flexible across the whole range of everything, a very, very, very large industrial conglomerate might do. You see, seller? Yes, most of the time, I would say we can do that. Just look at what we've done with some of our biggest customers today, but I don't know for B2B.

Okay. Understood. And so I wanted to hit on some of the Black Friday, Cyber Monday news. We got some GMV stats from you guys. Obviously that was up roughly 75%. That's a pretty impressive number. Curious how did that compare versus your expectation? And any more color you can give on some of the areas of strengthen that figure?

All right, I have been talking too much. Why don't you chime in, brother.

Happy to. Sorry, I was on mute. It's really across the board, BP, we saw, as we disclosed, you could see the growth rates across so many of the categories that we serve. I mean, in terms of expectations, it was -- I would say it was in the midst of the vaccine news coming out. And it's just -- it's really difficult to predict kind of what we were thinking about for this holiday season, but we were extremely pleased. I think the biggest thing that we were really excited about was 100% uptime for the 7th year in a row. So 7th year in a row or Cyber 5 uptime maintained 100% with no downtime. And for the segment of the market that we really focus on and try to serve the best mid-market and enterprise that's really, really important. So super pleased with the growth rates and the transaction volume and then ecstatic with the platform performance.

And so just in the -- you mentioned the mid-market and enterprise, I know you've added some larger merchants this year. Any help on where those are coming from? Are those kind of some Magento replatformings? Or are those potentially some bigger brands that are just kind of making their initial foray? I'm curious what you're adding and where are they coming from?

It continues to be -- roughly half of them are new sites. No, actually, I'm going to pull that back. If you look across all of our stores, including small biz stores, it's roughly 50-50 between migrations and new. But in the enterprise area, it's probably 2/3 to 3 quarters migrations and 1/4 to 1/3 brand-new sites. Magento continues to be the single largest prior platform. It's both Magento 1 and Magento 2 sites, that's Magento 1. And then there's a call after that, it's everybody. It's Shopify, but it's custom platform. There are more than 500 outdated declining platforms around the world. And that's what the vast majority of the world's merchants are on. They're not yet on us or Shopify or Salesforce that's re-SaaS leaders. And so what we see is a lot of migration off of those.

Okay. Got it. And so what about -- what role does the partner channel kind of play in facilitating that? I know Magento has a large ecosystem. I know there's been an investment in the ecosystem for you guys. Like any help on how the partner channel is helping you guys in terms of going out and winning some new logos?

Yes. The partner channel is critical. About 80% of our enterprise customers will use an agency for some combination of strategy, design, systems integration or implementation. So it's very common. The question in go-to-market is then what percentage of the time does the agency source the lead and bring the merchant to us first versus what percentage of the time does the merchant come to BigCommerce and pick BigCommerce, and then get our assistance in picking an agency. And the answer to that question, as we've shared historically is roughly 35% of our total enterprise sales are sourced by our agency partners. So a little more 1/3. And then another, let's call it, 45% resource, and they subsequently pick an agency. And then the final 20% are companies who will do it themselves without the assistance of an agency. So that 35% is very important. Not only do we need them, of course, for the business that they source, but we also will often involve them in the wins that start with us and then we collaborate on a pitch or a deal or a competitive situation. We think that the world's best agencies who used to in an on-premise era anchor on Magento, one after another, after another. When they evaluate SaaS platforms, they realize we're the SaaS platform that is, in essence, the successor to Magento, the one that best serves mid-market and established business use cases better than any other.

And it's interesting -- and Alvarez, I've talked to you about this a lot. Like can you talk about what the total cost of ownership would be for a customer on Magento 1.0? And as they migrated over to BigCommerce, what would that look like? And I also kind of want to -- I know that's kind of the cost aspect. But also the open platform, the SDK and the advanced functionality, and I know there was a press release on the open checkout, but I wanted to kind of focus on the cost benefit and then the platform benefit that you're seeing versus -- particularly versus Magento?

Yes. Brian, I think a good way to answer that is to the lens of a customer. So Skullcandy is a great example of a cool headset company, technology company. They wanted to expand across multiple geographies. And their legacy platform was Salesforce and Demandware. In order to spin up a site in a new geography, they were telling us it could take anywhere from 6 to 9, sometimes even 12 months. On BigCommerce, they're able to spin up sites in 3 or 4 weeks. With their old system, it also took roughly 8 or so developers to maintain that platform; with BigCommerce, it's 2 to 3. So it's not just a total cost of ownership conversation. I mean, we're 1/3 of the price or 1/4 of the price of Demandware and Magento, but it's really how do they expand their digital presence? How do they grow faster? How do they get into new markets easier? And -- I mean, they just love the flexibility of BigCommerce and how easy we make it for them to spin up new sites across geographies? With Magento, look, it's on-premise licensed software, so you can customize it to the nth degree. But the reality is you need a ton of developers, you're on the hook for compliance, you're on the hook for security. You just don't get the benefits of a multi-tenant SaaS platform where we have daily releases, weekly releases. And we -- again, I mean, we provided 100% uptime for all of our merchants. And that's difficult to do if you have -- if you have your own internal development team responsible for that.

Understood. And maybe I don't know if you want to take -- Brent, do you want to take the open platform and kind of the open checkout and why that matters to a lot of merchants today?

Yes. What merchants want to accomplish to maximize conversion in their checkout differs a lot in the company, which payment methods you want, it could be what language you're operating in, in what countries, what information you need to gather and what order from your customers. And as a result of that, the challenge with SaaS is that Saas, it's often what you're able to use is what the SaaS provider tees up over your web browser. It's hard to make SaaS really open. How can you enable a merchant to go in and modify their checkout when we're the ones serving that checkout up and still need to maintain PCI compliance and security in the checkout. Well, we've solved that problem. We have the most open checkout in all of the e-commerce as a merchant says, "Hey, look, I want to change field, move fields, change language," they can do that. If they say, "I want to use your checkout, BigCommerce," but ride my own payment rails, they can do that. If they want to say, "I don't want to use your checkout at all, I want the rest of your platform, but I'm going to design my own," they can do that. And finally, they can even, with our open checkout, download the source code that powers every pixel of the out-of-the-box standard checkout, start modifying that and then reupload their own modified or custom checkout. That stuff is not possible on our SaaS competitors. And our SaaS competitors both haven't invested in the product to enable that, and they have business models that are really dependent on trying to extract a very significant take off of every single dollar of transactions from their merchants. And so their interests are pitted against their merchants, right? They don't want to give up any control over checkout, that means they might lose $1 of payments processing or penalty for not using their payment processing. We're not like that. We optimize around the flexibility, and we win a lot of business because of that.

And so that question actually comes up a lot with investors. So obviously there's a lot of flexibility. There's also a PSR monetization play. So can you kind of talk about your partnerships on the technology side? In what inning you feel like you're in, in terms of developing those relationships and kind of monetizing your scale as an e-commerce platform?

The way I put numbers around it, very loosely. More than 70% of our electronic payment volume, meaning the stuff that is credit card or other electronic payments is going through one of our -- being processed by one of our strategic payment partners. And our strategic payment partners are the ones that we kind of refer to as preferred or elite that we recommend to our customers. And from whom we earn a very meaningful percentage of the net margin on each transaction. Remember, net margin is really important to focus on because credit card interchange is such a big part of cost of goods sold for any payment processing fees. So we're getting, let's call it, very 100% profit margin to us. Rev share from these strategic partners and that -- and the rev share we get constitutes a very meaningful percentage of the net margin on transactions. Then there's roughly another 20% of transactions that are flowing through generic payment gateways. And a generic payment gateway like an authorized dot net or a cybersource, connects into a bank that does the payment processing, but they don't do the payment processing themselves. So our connection point is not getting the primary source of economics of payment processing. There's a bank on the other end. And so we'll get some rev share from those, but nowhere near as much. And then less than 10% of all the electronic volume that is processed through us is not going to a strategic partner of ours, either gateway or payment processor but somebody who is integrated, and we won't earn much of any rev share off of that. So if you go -- if you blend across all of that, you'll understand that we're relatively well-penetrated in volume for electronic payments. But as always, over time, as we become bigger and our relationships become more established, the amount of rev share that we negotiate or renegotiate with our partners improves. And then there's another portion of payments that are not electronic, and the primary use case is going to be B2B where a lot of -- you may place an order online, but oftentimes, you've then got a purchase order, invoice process. You might have payments initiated from ERPs and paper checks written or other segments done, stuff like that. And there are really no economics to be gained from that category of transactions. But our willingness to support that, even though we're not making any payments revenue is one of the things that makes us a strong competitor for B2B.

So Brent, that's a lot of detail on the payment side. What about the partnership opportunity kind of outside of payments, where with sales tax or advertising or even if you're thinking about that ecosystem? Where are we in that inning, which I think is maybe a little bit more nascent today than the payment side?

RA?

Yes. Brian, you're a sports guy, so I'd say very early innings, right? So if you look at our revenue split today, majority of our PSRs is driven by payments, but we're starting to see the monetization across all the other services. So if you think about, call it, $1 million merchant, you'll have our subscription that we charge and likely, as they grow, they'll add more stores. So that expansion revenue comes in the form of them adding stores, but also us monetizing the GMV flowing through the platform. But then below payment subscription, you've got payments, you've got shipping. You've got email marketing. You've got omnichannel. You've got working capital. You've got all these other services that we bring best-of-breed partners to the table and we're able to monetize the rev share. And so I think that the nonpayments PSR opportunity is, first or second inning, the majority of today is payments. I think at some point, we'll be able to get to 50-50, 50% payments, 50%, all other things beyond payments. I'll point out, we're not going to build those things. We're going to partner with best-of-breed. We're going to go-to-market together. We're going to recognize our rev share on a net basis. So that take rate opportunity for us will be at a really high gross margin for us. And as the mix of our merchants continues to be very large enterprise merchants, they drive a ton of GMV through the platform. So yes, I would say it's very early days, very early innings, and we couldn't be more excited about the partners that we're bringing to market and really the monetization opportunities in front of the company.

And RA, if I think about some of the customers that you've added this year, are they looking for more of those kind of integration and partnership opportunities like off the cuff, right? Like this is, "Hey, we need to have this and this and this," versus maybe a few years ago when some of these things maybe weren't as important? I'm curious what the new customers are wanting initially versus maybe a few years ago?

Yes. I'd say more and more of them, lean on us as the experts. We have use cases and examples of similar types of merchants and what works in their architecture. And so we have a pretty influential voice in the process. There's only very few use cases where they have an existing integration or existing solution that they just want to make sure that they carry over. But in large part, when we get into an RFP situation, they are really looking for our recommendations. They're looking for our experiences with other platforms. So I think we play a very influential role in which systems that they end up choosing. But there is -- from time-to-time, large merchants that say, "You know what, I just want this integration carried over," and because how open we are, we're easy -- it's easy for us to support their request.

Yes. 5 years ago, all we had was some glorified higher support enterprise account management support capabilities for larger merchants. And the expectation was that merchants, if they needed a lot of assistance, would hire an agency, because that's how it works on the vast majority of other platforms like Magento. However, then we had, let's call it, Fortune 500 companies signing up and saying, "I'm not going to hire an agency, I'm picking you because I believe your platform is so easy to use that our team can implement it ourselves." And then they would be running into questions that normally an agency would answer, and we couldn't let them fail. We had to lean in and start doing agency-like work. And we didn't want to just give that away for free, and we didn't want to compete with agencies. So we had to kind of figure out this model for how do we add technical account management or even dedicated managers, if they wanted to get it on a recurring basis, solution architects, implementation managers. We've got a whole implementation management team, and that exists for every customer, whether you're using an agency or not. Our catalog transfer services. We have a number of different professional services now. It's a very small percentage of our employee base and a very small percentage of our revenues. For the most part, we're not trying to grow that because we don't want to go anywhere in the direction of what agencies do. But we have found that our implementation times, success rate, Net Promoter Score have all skyrocketed as a result of bringing this experience with our platform and with migrations or implementations to every customer, right? It's making every one of our customers more happy and successful and speeding up their time. So it's been a big boom and nicely, our agency partners see it as totally complementary to them.

Understood. So I had a couple more topics. I don't think we're going to get all of them in a few minutes here. But international is something that I wanted to hit on. U.S. has been strong. International has actually been growing faster. So is there something about the BigCommerce platform and maybe it's the flexibility that's kind of helping you in different geographies and really attracts merchants internationally to your platform?

Well, I think international growth will be the biggest catalyst and driver for us for years, if not the case. The opportunity is monumental around the world that are not strong local e-commerce platforms than any other countries around the world, I would say, with the exceptions of Germany and Brazil. No other country in the world has strong local platform. So it's just a question of how well do we localize our language, payments and other capabilities to compete in major markets around the world against our competitors, who are trying to do the same thing, Shopify and Magento, Salesforce. One of the reasons, though, if you take Europe as an example, there's an additional reason that we are growing so quickly there. In geographies outside the U.S., a higher percentage of e-commerce is led by, sourced by, established brands rather than pure-play startups. So in Europe, a lot of retailers, the big brands, these companies are a lot more complex, have more legacy systems, retail operations that they need to integrate with and need a platform with the flexibility to basically optimize for their businesses. In contrast, a pure-play startup, a digital native, it's an open book, and they can say, "Hey, look, I'm just going to do things the Shopify way. I'll take a closed SaaS platform because I don't have to optimize for a whole bunch of other offline activities or a prior website. I'll just do it that way." And so Shopify does really well and incrementally better, I think, in the U.S. because there are a lot of digital natives. Just I'm going to run the Shopify playbook, and I'll do it on their infrastructure, whereas if you are an established company, including an online business who's migrating from one platform to another, our capabilities shine because they're open, flexible and let you do best-of-breed for you, up and down your e-commerce stack. And we're clean enough in your -- I mean, it's -- we do so well in the U.K., Northern Europe, where our presence is strongest against Shopify, against Salesforce, against Magento.

And I know we're kind of a 1-minute here, but do you feel like the IPO and the brand awareness has helped you and maybe not even particularly to international, but any thoughts on how that's going to help build the pipeline or inbound engagements? Just curious on the brand awareness factor.

Part of it is brand awareness, it's probably tripled. I don't have a metric for that, but it's probably tripled since we IPO-ed. Now people pay attention to everything we do and as a private company, much less so. But the far bigger issue is not the awareness, it's the credibility. Our customers are prospective customers and even our agency and technology ecosystem partners are betting their digital future on us. And in the [indiscernible] private company, our size, our strategy, our market momentum, our balance sheet, we're all okay. It took a giant leap of faith. You had to be really convinced that our technology was that much better to pick us over our large market cap competitors. And they're all large market cap, Shopify, Adobe, Salesforce, Oracle, SAP once, IBM. We were competing with a big arm behind our back because of that credibility disadvantage. Now not only have we leveled the playing field by creating transparency around our momentum and size and balance sheet. If anything, it's become clear that our momentum and traction, our reputation is actually better than all of those companies other than Shopify. And of course, we have this advantage now against the other 500 legacy platforms around the world who are still private and will never become public. So the -- if you're a company and you're betting your future, you're betting your digital transformation on a platform, you want to have as much confidence and certainty in the platform you're picking as possible. And all of this coverage and transparency post-IPO is enormously helpful to existing customers, prospective customers and ecosystem partners who are also betting on us.

That's great to hear. Well, Brent, RA, that's all the time we have. Thanks for joining. And thanks for everyone listening in.

Thanks.

Thanks, Brian. Thanks, everyone.