Comms Group Limited (CCG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to the Comms Group Limited Half Year 2025 Results Investor Webinar. I'm Jane Morgan, Investor and Media Relations Manager. And today, I'm joined by Managing Director and CEO, Peter McGrath; and CFO, Matthew Beale. Today, we're running through the results presentation, which was lodged with the ASX this morning, followed by a Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] Peter, I'll hand over to you.

Okay. Thank you, Jane, and welcome to everyone this morning. I'm just going to spend a couple of minutes introducing Comms Group for those who are new to the business. We're a cloud communications and managed IT services provider to businesses. We've been listed on ASX since 2017. We've got operations across Australia as well as in Asia, where we have a strong focus and also into the U.K. In terms of focusing on businesses that includes enterprise and government and also a growing wholesale services business to domestic and international Telcos. We do have a focus on cash generation, generating strong shareholder returns. And we have 3 key divisions, which I'll just go through now. We have our domestic Cloud Communications and Collaboration business. This is a business that trades under the name of Next Telecom. It's a specialist service provider to Australian SMEs and mid-market corporates. We have a very strong focus on the industry-leading cloud communications products and collaboration products as well as a range of services demanded by businesses. We have a Secure Modern Workplace Solutions business, which focuses more so on award-winning IT services. A strong recurring business, a very structured productized business. And we're servicing the needs of typically mid-market corporates with the latest products and services and particularly a strong focus around security solutions. And then finally, our Global Unified Communications and Wholesale Voice business. And in this particular area, we're a specialized unified communications provider, focusing on a number of the key platforms. We have our own global network. And we also provide our wholesale digital voice services to a number of key customers around the world, but particularly some large Telcos. What we do is we enhance business agility. We help businesses be competitive with the latest products and services in the Cloud Communications and Secure Modern Workplace area. For the first half of FY '25, a number of key highlights. Our revenue came in at $27 million, which was slightly above the first half last year. Our Global business saw good growth in the period. We reported an underlying EBITDA of $2.4 million, a little bit lower than what we would have liked. And we made a decision to invest in more resources for our Global business, which has been the key reason for that. You'll see there that we talk about our core business OpEx increased to $10.7 million, which was an increase of $0.8 million compared to the previous corresponding period. These resources, I'll cover a little bit later, but really there to support the growth that we're seeing in the business and also to help us with some of the significant deals that we have already announced in the first half. Really happy with our strongest half on record with new business contracts signed, a total of $5.9 million in new ARR. That compares to a total of $7 million for the full year last year. So a really strong period and a number of key marquee global brands that we brought on and that we are providing services for, rolling out those contracts currently. Really happy with how we went with our supplier cost management as well. We managed to increase our group gross margin again to 48.3%. And as a result, our gross profit increased. Our cash flow position was strong. We did have a debtor that was delayed worth $0.6 million. We've entered into binding agreements for that outstanding amount to be paid in the next half, the current half, which will obviously help the cash flow in the second half. But when we adjust for that, it was a strong cash flow position. We're doing a lot of work on improving the security awareness of the business and our capabilities, our certifications. And we completed within the period ISO27001:2022. We have SOC 2 as well. And also we've embarked on U.K. cybersecurity. So we did receive the U.K. Cyber Essentials within the period as well. We have announced an interim dividend of $0.00125 per share, fully franked, that's been declared and there's -- details of that have been released to the market. To go through the financial highlights in a little bit more detail. So our revenue was up slightly to $27 million. Our gross profit was up 1.5% to $13.1 million with a corresponding increase in our gross margin there. You'll see that's gone from 47.7% to 48.3%. Our underlying EBITDA that was down 19.5% to $2.4 million as a result of those additional costs that we've taken on into the business and also combined with some delays in revenue from some key customer contracts. And our operating cash flow as a result, predominantly of this debtor delay, the payment of $0.6 million that's been delayed, which was due within the period. But the operating cash flow of $1.2 million would have been $1.8 million if it wasn't for that delay. I'll hand over now to Matthew Beale, our CFO, to run through the financials.

Thanks, Peter. As Peter has already alluded to, our operating revenue at a group level has increased slightly to just over $27 million for the 6 months. Our margin has actually improved slightly from 47.7% to 48.3%, giving rise to a slight increase in the gross profit to $13.1 million. The operating costs have increased from $9.9 million to $10.7 million. And obviously, as employee costs account for the majority of those operating expenses with the addition of those new global employees, that's given rise to an increase of -- or it's accounted for the majority of that increase of $0.8 million from the prior year. Non-recurring items, and share incentive costs have actually reduced from $1.4 million to $1 million, which is probably, I suppose, the prior year incurring significant costs in setting up overseas entities and gaining overseas licenses. Depreciation and amortization is down slightly. And net interest is down in line with the reduction in our term loan facility with the CBA. So that's given rise to an operating profit -- sorry, an operating loss of $400,000 for the 6 months, which is in line with the previous year. The next slide. So once again, the performance over time. You can see the revenue for the 6 months of $27 million. As we said, it's slightly up on the previous 6 months, but obviously down from the second half of last financial year. Always, our second half is typically stronger than the first half with end of financial year sales being generated in that June month. So there is, I suppose, some slight decrease from the second half of the preceding financial year. You can see in the second -- in the lower half of that slide, the operating revenues by division. Once again, the Global business has increased from the 6 months of the prior year from $5.8 million to $6.1 million. The revenues of the Next Telecom business or the SME division have decreased slightly from $11.9 million to $11.6 million from the previous -- the 6 months of the previous financial year. And for the onPlatinum business, it's stable at $9.3 million relative to the prior financial year. So the next slide. And then just in terms of the gross profit, once again, you can see that at a group level, the gross profits increased from $12.8 million to $13.1 million, which is a reflection of the better margin that we've been able to achieve in some products and parts of the group. As well as the -- and just moving to the second part of that slide, the EBITDA by business unit. Once again, you can see that the corporate costs have increased from $1.3 million to $1.6 million, which is an addition of some staff at the corporate level. Plus, the EBITDA from the Next, SME business, the EBITDA has declined slightly from $2.2 million of the previous financial year to $2 million for this current 6 months. The Global was in line with the previous year at just under $700,000. And then the ICT business is nearly stable with the previous year, $1.3 million.

Okay. So Matthew, I think does that cover the financial slides?

No, there's still the cash flow and the balance sheet.

Right. Just let me have a look where that is.

That's I think -- that's it?

So cash flow, yes.

Yes, so just running through the cash flow for the 6 months. At the end of the period, we had cash flow on hand of $2.7 million, which was up from $2.4 million the same period last year, 31st of December, '23. So we've actually -- as Peter said, we generated operating cash flows of $1.2 million versus the prior year of $1.5 million. But that was actually impacted by the delayed payment or receipt of about $600,000 from that customer. Obviously, adjusting for that, we would have generated operating cash flows of $1.8 million, which would have been an increase from the prior year. We have just -- noting with that debtor or that customer, we have actually now received parts or a significant part of that $600,000 and are due to receive another part within the next week. So as we've already explained or noted, the net interest paid was in line with what's -- it's actually stated there at $400,000, but has decreased slightly from the prior year in line with the reduction of the term loan. And other payments to note, during the 6 months was the dividend paid of $900,000, which took place in -- I think it was September last year as well as we've had term loan repayments under the new facility agreement of $300,000 a quarter or $600,000 for the 6 months. As we move to the next slide, the balance sheet. The balance sheet, so the net assets, has actually reduced from the 30th of June 2024 from $31.8 million to $30.8 million. And the reduction is primarily a result of the payment of that dividend of $900,000. We've got cash of $2.7 million, as I've just discussed. We've got a working capital -- net working capital of $1 million relative to $2.2 million at 30 June. And as I said, the majority of that decrease relates to the payment of the dividend. The term loan is now at $7 million relative to $7.6 million at 30 June. And non-current assets of $45.2 million, which is slightly up from the 30th of June.

Okay. Thank you, Matthew. I'll just come back to a couple of other update slides and then we'll go into the outlook for the rest of the year. So just in terms of our Global business, where we did incur some additional costs where we've added additional resources. Our Global business, as I mentioned earlier, provides 2 key sets of products, Unified Comms as a Service for multinational corporates, where we cover 65-plus countries. So an example product there is, say, Microsoft Teams Calling. We've recently brought on board also Cisco, WebEx PSTN Calling as another product offering. And also the second category being our Wholesale Voice solutions, where we provide, if you like, high-capacity, high-quality digital voice solutions for large carriers or over-the-top providers. An example of product there would be, say, in the Philippines, where we have a license, where we may provide a wholesale voice calling solution for a large contact center type company. Our key focus of more recent time within that Global business has been really focusing on the Asia-Pacific region. And we spent quite a bit of time in the last couple of years in terms of enhancing our capabilities there with building out additional points of presence and also over the last 2 years with expanding our license footprint in Asia-Pacific. We have quite a good coverage today and probably just about the most extensive coverage in the market in terms of licensing across the Asia-Pacific. And as a result of that, we're seeing increasing demand from large carriers interested in taking services from us. The Asia-Pacific is a complex region, unlike the U.S., Australia or say, the U.K. or other markets like that that have deregulated. And it's quite easy to go in there and be a competitor. What we're finding in Asia-Pacific is that the regulators are tending to change the rules quite frequently. So -- hence, the reason for going and getting those licenses and also that gives us a license to operate, but also gives comfort to our key customers that we can provide those services. So we're also working on just finalizing our licenses across the Asia-Pacific region currently. We're looking at another 2 or 3 countries. And I think at that point, we're pretty well done in terms of the licenses that we need. And just to put this in context and just to reemphasize what I said again. There are quite a few providers who are attempting to provide services across Asia-Pacific that don't have these licenses. And they're being pulled up and in some cases, not able to continue to provide those services. We've also recently established a subsidiary in the EU. And we're working on getting licenses or, if you like, rights to operate in a number of markets across there in the EU as well. Separate from that, we've been working in LatAm or Latin America and looking to roll out the ability to provide services across LatAm as well. We announced in the last 6 months, a number of key contract wins. So we announced a significant contract win with a global SaaS provider of $2.4 million. And then separately, we announced in November that we were going to provide key telecom services to a global tech company. So they are 2 really exciting announcements that we made within the period. And the teams are currently working on rolling out those services. If I look at the business today within our Global business, and I look at the -- I'd mentioned previously at our AGM, we had a very strong month in, say, November, where I think we sold services into circa 14 countries overseas, which going back 12 months earlier would have been totally unheard of. We've continued to have strong sales months since then. So December was a very strong month, and then January has been another strong month for us within our Global business. And once again, selling services, a range of different services that we can support across our network to different organizations, typically corporate customers. And some of those customers are coming directly and some are coming indirectly via our partners. So I think we're seeing really, really good momentum there within our Global business currently and hence, the reason for the additional resources that we've added. In terms of those resources, we have added a Global Head of Sales based out of Singapore, who is very proficient in the area and has had a long career, doing the type of work that we do. And we felt that Singapore was the right market for that. We've also added some additional sales resource in Singapore and additional resource in London and also within our core Australian business, which is supporting the Global business. So within that Global team in Australia, we've added additional resources to, obviously, bolster our capabilities and do things like obtain these cybersecurity credentials, et cetera, which we've obtained. In terms of the map, we will provide a bit more granularity at our next update to the market. I think what this map doesn't show is the countries that we cover. It shows where our core points of presence are. But if we overlay the countries that we cover, you would see that we're covering now a significant part of the world. In terms of the core products that we support, one of the key products is SIP, domestic calling services within country. And so this is very different from the IDD market where a lot of the big Telcos operate. This is actually providing local in-country voice services using SIP trunks. You'll see some definitions at the back of the document here. But SIP is the standard for digital voice today. We're doing that in circa 40 key countries globally and with an extended reach of a further 25-plus international toll-free for capability. I mentioned before that we have these licenses now in the Asia-Pacific region, which obviously is very helpful when you're speaking to larger customers and carriers. This global SBC network that you'll see there, which is the green dots on the slide, we have a number of core points of presence, 2 in the U.S., East and West, Brazil, South Africa, United Kingdom in London and then in Frankfurt and then a number of other points of presence. But a number of the key nodes occur in the likes of, say, Singapore, Hong Kong and Sydney in Australia. In terms of that phased rollout of licenses, which I touched on, we're looking to add additional licenses in Asia, as I mentioned and also into Europe in Phase 3. We just move forward now, beyond the financials and have a look at the strategy and the outlook. So our strategy, which we enunciated to the market 6 months ago is pretty well unchanged. So a strong focus on the corporate mid-market sector in Australia and that's both with a range of Cloud Communications and Collaboration services as well as our Secure Modern Workplace Solutions where we typically target the mid-market. We're continuing to focus on the cross-sell of Secure Modern Workplace Solutions to our wider customer base and we've had some good success there into this year as well. Expanding our partner program, and particularly expanding our relationship with key strategic accounts. And we've seen that a number of these strategic accounts have added quite a bit of business with us over the last 6 months in terms of new contracts. I've touched on the fact that we're looking to leverage our significant Asia-Pacific footprint to provide unified communications and collaboration and at the right point, secure modern workplace solutions across the region. We are focusing on the transformation of our business as well with some common group-wide processes, and particularly as we roll out the likes of ISO27001 across the wider business. A key focus for us is that strong operating and free cash flow generation. And I think just as a bit of an update for the market. We are pursuing strategic growth opportunities to increase scale and add additional capabilities. And so we are spending time looking at opportunities out there. In terms of our outlook for the full year financial year '25, we have brought back our numbers a little bit. We're looking at revenue of $55 million to $57 million and EBITDA of $5 million to $6 million. And this is in line with some of the additional costs, but also some of the contracts as we're rolling them out are taking a little bit longer to come to fruition. Some of these big contracts that we've won and also an expectation of some further key contracts that we expect to win over the next 6 months. I think at this stage, Jane, I'll hand back to you and we're happy to take questions.

I might actually just get you to stop sharing your screen there. And we do have quite a few questions to get through. [Operator Instructions] So let me jump into it. And you covered this actually in the presentation, but Peter, I'll hand to you. Can you give us a brief overview of the key business development and major achievements during the first half of 2025 as well as your pipeline for the remainder of the financial year for 2025?

Yes, definitely. So look, I did mention a little bit earlier that we've had a very strong first half in terms of new business and business development, as Jane has just alluded to. So we measure our contracts by dollars MRR typically, which we convert to dollars ARR. And you'll see in the announcement that we signed $5.9 million in the first half. That compared to $7 million for the full year last year, so a really strong first half. We do have expectations of further business coming through. We've got strong pipelines across the business. I think what helped us in the first half, particularly to see that big lift that we saw there is a number of those key global deals that we're seeing through that really are at a different scale from what we've seen in the business before. And we do have a strong pipeline of some great opportunities. We haven't closed them all yet. Although January was a strong month for us. But we are hopeful that we'll see another strong half this year in terms of new business. And a key part of the resources that we brought on is there to support us, particularly in our Global business as we go after these opportunities. So I think, Jane, all in all, we're really happy with what we saw in terms of new business in the first half. And we have an expectation of a good second half at this stage.

Thanks, Peter. This one has come through a few times just on investment in the business itself. So how will the additional key staff investment support the financial, operational and strategic objectives across FY 2025 and beyond?

Yes. So the staff that we put on, quite a few of those were in business development. And so their task is to assist bring in some of these key deals that we've been working on and obviously making sure that they're profitable. Those resources that we have put in, we've put them in key locations, particularly in Singapore. And we're selling services across the region now in Asia-Pacific and outside of Asia-Pacific. But I think those key resources that we've added and the Sales Director position that we added there in Singapore will definitely be helping us with new business and which will flow then to additional revenue and profitability as we move forward. We also added some additional resources within our core Global business to help with our systems and also with our operations as we roll out these additional contracts. So all in all, it's an investment that we see is critical for the business. Some of the deals that we're working on and some of the customers that we're dealing with are blue chip and we have a great reputation for quality. Comms Group is highly regarded by a number of our key customers as a quality provider. And what I mean by that is we have an extremely reliable network across the world and particularly domestically. So we want to continue to excel in that area and deliver great service for our customers and great products and services.

Bear with me. Sorry, there's quite a few coming through. This one looks like it's in regards to the -- that map slide that we had up there earlier. So can you break down the performance by any significant segments or geography? And were there any surprises? And are there any expectations for the second half of FY 2025?

Yes. I think -- look, we don't want to go into specific countries, because -- but we are doing quite well in a number of key countries in Asia-Pacific and that's outside of Australia as well. But there's, probably 3 or 4 key countries that we've gone into that we're really happy with the performance to date. I did mention before that we have a very reliable, robust network. And that network, typically, when we go into these countries, you'll see there from that slide that we do put a point of presence or a session border controller in. We run those -- that network globally from -- typically from Sydney, with a very competent engineering team. And as a result, we're able to bring on additional services and capacity -- key capacity in many cases for customers. So to date, we've been very happy with the performance there. There are 3 or 4 countries across Asia-Pacific that are performing really well for us. And -- but I think at this stage, we would prefer not to go into the detail for obvious reasons. Also outside of Asia-Pacific, if I look at the deals that we've won over the last 6 months, and including into January, we're winning some good business outside of the Asia-Pacific. And so a customer might have, say, 15, 20 locations around the world. There might be some key locations in Asia-Pac that we can service, there will be then some locations in, say, Europe, even South America. And so we're getting some good business coming through rest of world as well.

Thank you, Peter. Okay. So next one, what key business initiatives can you discuss that may be rolled out for the second half of FY 2025? And secondly, so perhaps anything significant coming up that is expected to contribute to the full year 2026 business performance?

Well, yes, look, I've touched on those 2 key contracts that we won in September and November. So we would expect that they would start to generate revenue within this half, that's our expectation at this stage. But, obviously, not be at a full capacity within the full period. The other key -- and we do have a plan within our Global business as to the types of players that we're targeting, et cetera. So we are hopeful at this stage that there will be some further key deals won over the next 6 months. That's probably the key area. I think separately from that within our domestic business and within our domestic IT services business, within that Secure Modern Workplace Solutions business, we had a very strong Q4 FY '24, which I talked about previously. And that revenue is now starting to come on. In other words, the services are being provisioned. So we would be hopeful that Secure Modern Workplace Solutions would continue to build their momentum in terms of revenue and profitability. And yes, we're working on some enhanced channel plays for our domestic unified communications and collaboration business. So there's, a number of key initiatives there across the board. I think the big ones out there. If we can be successful that will kind of move the needle more so, I think, would be within our Global business, the way we're looking forward at this stage.

Bear with me, sorry, there's quite a few coming through. Okay. Again, this is sort of pushing on the same question that we sort of just mentioned. So looking ahead, where do you see the largest business opportunities for Comms Group, either by service or again, by geography?

I think -- well, if I go into a little bit more detail. When we talk by service and I did talk about within our Global business, we've got kind of 2 distinct areas, although they kind of work off the one network and they're very synergistic. We have our Wholesale Voice business where we provide SIP trunks into various countries. And we have provided some global SIP-based offerings for some key global carriers. That business is performing really well. And we're seeing really solid demand in there, typically from some large partner customers of ours. What we're working on is increasing the number of partners with our sales force, so that we can service more larger carriers, global carriers and typically, they would purchase SIP services from us within country as well as some related services. And I think the other area as well would be with our unified communications solutions where we're providing that as a wholesale offering for a number of carriers as well. So they would be the 2 areas. They're not particularly complex product areas. We talk about them in the definitions at the back of our document. They're the kind of the basic building blocks of what we sell. Typically, the unified communications solutions and many of the global SIP products are actually used then by end corporates. So at the end of the day, I think we're expecting to win some further additional very decent sized corporates. And one of our key advantages is our coverage. And we want to focus on that coverage and expand into niche areas where we can differentiate. So I think -- yes, I think that gives a little bit more detail there, Jane.

Thank you, Peter. This one, I'll actually pass on to you, Matt. So can you give us a sense of your expectations for the generation of cash flow during the second half of the FY 2025 period? And secondly, do you typically see any seasonality in your cash flow between half year periods that we should be aware of?

Look, I think we are sort of forecasting an increase in the cash on hand by the end of the financial year at 30 June, certainly from the 31st of December. And I think that takes into account the payment of the dividend in April and further term loan repayments. So, obviously, there is also that benefit of the $600,000 that we've mentioned to flow through. So I think we do expect the cash position to rise in line with the earnings for the second half.

Okay. So competitive environment, so how are competitors responding to current market conditions in this space? You might want to maybe touch on geography, again, that stands out? And sort of how does Comms Group's rather strategy compare?

Okay. So we have a number of markets. And we're operating domestically as well as internationally. Look, I think domestically, there's a good level of competition and particularly for the more commodity type products such as NBN and the like. And we've seen that for a number of years now, where we have a real skill and particularly in our domestic business as well as our Global business. But if I look at our Telco business domestically or our cloud communications business, we have a real skill in providing more advanced solutions for businesses, rather than just broadband services. So I think broadband will continue to remain competitive. But what we do really well is the Cloud Communications and the Collaboration services. So that's an area that we're focusing on. There is a level of competition there. But from our perspective, we're continuing to do quite well. And I think the flip side of competition is probably competence. It's one thing to be competitive and have achieved price. Do you have the competence or the capabilities to provide the services? And what we're seeing in the market is some of our competitors and even some of our larger competitors are struggling with the quality of their offerings. And when you're providing collaboration services or, say, contact center services, it's critically important that the service is reliable and we have a great reputation for that. When we sell a unified communications service, it works, say, a Microsoft Teams Calling product. And unfortunately, it's not -- that's not consistent across the market. And we're seeing some of our competitors struggling there. When you sell a complex voice calling solution, it needs to work. And some of these cloud-based services that we're seeing in the market, some of our competitors appeare to or are having some problems there. And I think what we have is a great level of technical expertise. What we're seeing probably in the IT services market, the Secure Modern Workplace Solutions market. I wouldn't say that that's overly competitive, particularly in the market segment where we operate in. And you can see that our margins there are circa 50%. But we do want to increase the size of our funnel there and the number of deals coming in. I think at the top end of the market, in the enterprise end of the market in Secure Modern Workplace Solutions or managed -- the MSP type business, it's very competitive today. And we're seeing a number of big global providers cut prices. We're not in that market, though. So we're in the mid-market where customers require more of our services and more of our technical expertise. I think globally, just to finish that, because it's quite an extensive question. On the global front, yes, there is good levels of competition, particularly when you're going for some of the global MNC deals that might be, say, 30, 40, 50 countries. That is competitive. Part of our strategy is to leverage our Asia-Pacific footprint. Most of the key deals that we're seeing out there have a strong requirement for Asia-Pacific and a number of the key countries across Asia-Pacific that we would be familiar with. And so that's an area where we think we have a good position with a quality product. And so we're not going to win all the deals. But we're winning a good share today, which we're happy with.

Peter, I'm going to hand over to Matthew for this one. So what are your expectations around the paydown of the term debt facility or reducing debt more generally?

Yes. So we re-signed that term loan back in August last year. And I think as part of that, agreed to an increase in the quarterly loan repayments to $300,000. So we've gone from $1 million to $1.2 million loan repayments. So I think yes, it's increased slightly. And I think the intention for the time being is to make -- to repay that loan in line with the agreement.

And again, this one has come through a few times just on acquisitions. So where do acquisitions fit into your plan? And do you require extra capital to achieve these?

Yes. So in terms of acquisitions, there are some opportunities that we're seeing out there in the market currently. And I say in the slide deck they're to both improve our reach and our capabilities. So the acquisitions that we're looking at would typically at this stage be Australian-based. And the product areas and kind of the customer bases would be consistent with what we have today. We're not looking at going into any other areas such as retail or consumer. So that'd be complementary. So MSP type businesses as we look to grow our Secure Modern Workplace Solutions business. We have a very good practice there, so looking to expand that. And any other kind of niche telecommunications opportunities that have similar products and services to what we have today and focus on the B2B market that would be the other area. In terms of would we require further capital for that? Most likely. But as to how we would obtain that? We haven't determined that at this stage. Whether it's a script acquisition or if we're going to make acquisitions, whether we need to raise capital? I think it's a bit early for us to make that call.

Thank you. Okay. Next one is, so it appears financial markets with the current market cap are not appropriately reflecting Comms Group's business performance and operating momentum. So how does the company plan on delivering value for shareholders across the remainder of FY '25 and into FY '26?

Look, we are getting feedback fairly consistently that we need to be bigger as a business. And I think the market in general is saying, even though we're $50 million to $60 million, is saying you need to be bigger as a listed company. So I think that's what we're looking at. Obviously, we're being careful there. We don't grow just for growth's sake. It needs to make money, et cetera, et cetera. So that's on the strategic side. And then I think on the organic side, we've got some good opportunities that we're working on in terms of sales deals in the pipeline. We hope to be successful there. And we'll wait and see. And that will obviously add to the size of the business as well if we are successful. So there's those 2 areas. But primarily growing the size of the business, I think, such that the market sees us as a larger company. And I think the tech and the Telco sector have been probably punished the last few years, particularly through COVID. There are some companies that really didn't have profitable or cash-generative type businesses, which the market hasn't been happy with. But I think in general, it's been hard on the smaller tech/Telco sectors. And in general, the message is we need to get bigger.

Thank you, Peter. And I think just finally, running out of time here. So in terms of news flow, what can investors be looking forward to for the remainder of financial year 2025?

Well, look, we're hopeful that we can win some other good deals and announce those to the market. Obviously, we need to win them, but that's probably a key area. And we're hopeful as a result of those, we'll start to see the uptick in our revenue and our earnings also. But that's probably the key area seeing some of these key deals being announced over the next 6 months or so.

Well, I think that actually covers everything, and that's all we've got time for as well. But if we've missed any of your questions, please feel free to reach out via the contact details on the bottom of our ASX releases. So we look forward to hearing from you again soon.

Thank you.

Thank you.