Consensus Cloud Solutions, Inc. (CCSI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. Good morning, everyone. I'd like to introduce to you Consensus Cloud Solutions. I'm Scott Turicchi, the Chief Executive Officer. With me is Johnny Hecker, our Chief Revenue Officer and our EVP of Operations. Just by way of note, we became public in October of 2021. We were spun off from a larger company known as J2 Global at the time. So we're coming up on our 3-year anniversary of being a public company. Our goal today is to give you a high-level overview of the company, its products, its services, a little bit touching on the financial profile of the company and then open it up to questions. So here are some of the risk factors and other information. I'd obviously refer you to our various regulatory filings, including our 10-K filed in February. Our Q1 10-Q filed in May. We'll have the Q2 earnings call probably around August 8th or 9th. We'll announce that date shortly. As I mentioned, myself, I came from the previous parent company where I was there for approximately 20 years. And then prior to that, I was an investment banker. Most of my tenure was at Donaldson, Lufkin & Jenrette. Johnny, as I mentioned, who's our CRO and EVP of Operations, actually has had 2 stints with us, once at J2 Global, the former parent, now at Consensus. And in between, he [Technical Difficulty] which is a digital fax company based in Europe. I'll start by giving you just a high-level overview. Turn it over to Johnny, who will go through in greater detail the suite of services we offer, the challenge that exists as we see it in the healthcare space and the movement of documents and information. Then he'll hand it back to me after he talks about our customers, and I'll give you a brief highlight on our financial results, some of the things going on with our capital structure, reaffirm our guidance, and then we'll open it up to Q&A. So if you take a step back, and this would be true even prior to the spin, sort of the goal of this company is really the movement of mission-critical information, the transformation of it in certain instances, all, of course, done with a secure environment. We tend to focus on regulated industries. The roots of this company go back to really the early aughts, where we were focused primarily on the finance sector and the legal sector. And then more recently, as we get to about '17, '18, our focus on the healthcare space. Now, this busy slide, which I'm not going to go through in great detail because I mentioned Johnny will take the right half portion of it in just a couple of minutes and go through in greater detail the services, but it gives you a timeline of sort of how the company has evolved. So we have this series of offerings, what we're best known for is our eFax brand, which is a cloud fax solution, those customers range from the individual, all the way up through large enterprises in the federal government. And that was really the core service offered until about 2020. And then as we started to migrate the customer go-to-market towards the healthcare sector, we began to add new solutions that today really focus exclusively in healthcare. The first would be Unite that was launched shortly before the pandemic hit around the time it hit in 2020. That's an amalgamation of a variety of HIPAA compliant protocols for the transmission of either information or documents. jSign, which is a digital signature designed for use in the healthcare space, Clarity, which really leverages the core fax solution for extraction technology because the fax is a picture. So those documents, by definition, are unstructured in their data formats. Clearly, with the use of EHRs, the desire is to have it in structured format. And so you're left sort of with this conundrum of do we take the physical document and have somebody input the data? Or can it be done through a combination of NLP and AI for extraction? And then Harmony, I'm not going to touch on because that's still out in the future. There are pieces of it that currently are in a very early-stage proof of concept. So we've established our reputation both outside and inside of the healthcare sector really through that core eFax service. But it would be true for all of the other solutions that we have in terms of what makes us valuable to the customer. One is the real-time transmission of those documents, the secure environment in which they are transmitted, not just being HIPAA compliant, but certain of our services have the high trust certification as well as other certifications, specifically FedRAMP High for our solution for the federal government, most notably, the VA. So as we have expanded the product road map, it's also expanded the entree, not only into different elements of the healthcare sector, but also an expansion of what we call our customer continuum. When the company was found in its early days, most of the customers were individuals, whether they work for themselves in sort of sole proprietorships, or they work for larger companies, our relationship to them was as an individual. And then we began to form both from a customer support, go-to-market and billing standpoint, true business-to-business account relationships. And Johnny will get into those in greater detail. On the bottom right, I just want to draw your attention that these non-fax solutions, we tend to call our advanced or interoperable solutions. Although I would tell you that fax, since it is heavily used in the healthcare space, it is in and of itself may be the most interoperable of the solutions that are out there. But we've invested about $30 million over the last few years in these additional technologies. And what we've seen is really a evolution of the base of our customers. So 60% of our corporate revenue is in the healthcare sector and about 70% to 75% of either incremental new customers, pipeline/revenues coming into that channel is in the healthcare space. We do have a second piece of the business, which is smaller called the SoHo channel. Johnny will give you more details on that. It is very different than the corporate channel. It does, as I mentioned, cater to the individuals. It goes all the way back to the beginnings of this company. It tends to be about a $15 a month service. And it is not participatory in these other solutions that you see on this slide. It sells almost exclusively the cloud fax solution. It has very little incremental development dollars associated with it. It's pretty much marketing dollars in, customers out, managed really for its cash flow attributes. So since we began that transformation, we've got about presence in over 2,000 enterprises, about 54,000 total customers within our corporate channel, which range from SMB up to the largest customers that are out there. Highly visible in our revenue. It's either a pure subscription model, tends to be true at the lower end as we migrate more upstream in terms of customer size tends to be more transaction based. So, we're getting paid for the volume of pages being processed, whether that's the core fax transmission or some of the alternative solutions. As I mentioned, 75% of our new sales come from the healthcare sector. We have 4 of the top 10 healthcare companies in the Fortune 500 that are customers of Consensus. 21% of our advanced of our bookings come from our advanced services, that's a Q1 '24 number. And we have high visibility in our revenue [ has worked ] very close to just under 100% corporate revenue retention. I believe we'll get back to the 100% mark later this year. And I'll now turn it over to Johnny, who will give you a lot more detail on the space and how our solutions map to it.

Yes. Good morning, everyone. I will take you through -- I have 3 portions of my presentation. First, a little bit here through the general market. I will give you a little bit more insight on our product, and then also give you a description of our customer continuum, as Scott mentioned, from the low end, the SoHo customers, the individuals to sign up all the way up to the largest corporations across multiple verticals. What you see here is, on the left-hand side, really one of the key reasons why our fax platform and that technology is still so popular and broadly used across the healthcare spectrum. Healthcare is hugely fragmented. And there -- even within the core pillars that we view as our customer segments in the healthcare space, there are companies and organizations of all sizes. We view healthcare for us, not only as the provider space, that is an important part of healthcare for us, so that's the hospitals, all the way down to single physician practices. But we also have Pharma Rx as -- and pharma distribution as an important clientele for us in healthcare. The payers and the insurance companies, obviously. And for us, also the healthcare services and healthcare IT companies that use our technology and integrate them into their services and solutions. And all of those need to communicate on a daily basis, exchange not only patient data, but also payment and scripts and all kinds of information. All of them are using different kind of systems. And even if they're using the same technology, those systems don't talk to each other very well, which is the problem of interoperability in healthcare today and something that we're trying to solve or help to solve with our technologies. What are these organizations within in healthcare exchanging? What are the core use cases for our technologies? It's simple processes, and that's the way we're trying to break down our solutions as well and design our value propositions. It's mostly record sharing between those parties, but it can be referrals, it can be prior authorizations. It can be any kind of communication between payers, providers, pharmacies, lab results, all of these documents, any kind of pharmacy communication has to be exchanged. Ideally, oftentimes, the desire is to exchange that in a structured way. But the reality is it's very difficult to structure that data, which is why providers, which are not technologists and the other players in these spaces fall back to exchanging documents. And that's what it's all about. And that's why they use the fax technology so much still in this space. There's a lot of regulatory initiatives and initiatives by the government to solve this interoperability problem and to digitize healthcare communication that was -- it started with 21st Century Cures Act in 2016. We just recently in 2023, officially launched the TEFCA framework, which -- and there was a lot of stuff happening in between and there's going to continue to be a lot of dialogue and academic discussion around this. But there's always the desire and obviously, the need to enhance and improve these communications. And this is -- these regulations and these initiatives are really what we're piggybacking on with our technology and help the industry solve those problems. Now let me get a little bit into our product suite. I'm going to start at the bottom here with our eFax or eFax Corporate platform, not only for the healthcare industry, traditionally coming from many other industries, mostly highly regulated industries. So we have a lot of customers in the legal space, in the finance space, if you think about mortgage processing, auto loans, any kind of this communication, historically, very much form and fax space. And a lot of these processes still use that technology. But by far, the largest one for us and where we have the most growth, you heard the numbers from Scott, is the healthcare platform. So that is the majority of our current revenue and also how we were able to acquire our customer base over a extended -- over the period of the company. On top of that solution, we built -- or with the customer base, we built other solutions like our digital signature solution that for us was a logical next step in processing these documents. So we looked at the workflows on how documents are being processed within the industry, especially within the provider space. In that case, oftentimes, as a document comes in, a doctor reviews it, needs to sign it off and send it back. So we figured a logical extension of our fax platform, and the first step would be that digital signature solution, which is why we introduced jSign very much focused on the healthcare industry. But what we also noticed and this was -- as Scott mentioned it, a product that -- or a solution that we just launched before the pandemic is that in the healthcare industry, and I showed how fragmented it is, we really look at it from a size perspective and we view it as a concentric circle. So if you think about it in the middle, you have the integrated delivery networks, the large academic medical centers, those very large institutions, they're highly digitized. They were subsidized by the government with the 21st Century Cures Act. So they all have highly sophisticated EHRs, oftentimes Epic, Meditech, Greenway, all these kind of EHR systems fully integrated and they can communicate among each other fairly well. But within these groups, they can communicate very well and have established digital means of communicating. Now, once a patient leaves that system, and is released into the -- in the post-acute, sub-acute world to a home health service or to a physiotherapist, there was no subsidies. There was no support to digitize those institutions. So those providers are still in the very early steps of even deploying electronic health record systems. And between those groups, communication is very much fax based. So what Unite does is it gives a more advanced platform than just a fax solution to those in the sub-acute and post-acute space. So it's a little bit more advanced that has the ability to access other interoperable protocols, if needed, like direct secure messaging or HL7. But it's also more of a workflow interface for managing your faxes if you have some kind of digital solution to process the facts afterwards, that's what it can integrate with. So it's more of a UI, a little bit of a more sophisticated solution than just eFax. The next step that we were challenged with was our customers said, well, especially on the upper scale that we're receiving all these faxes, and we would like to process them faster. Because what happens today is a fax comes in and a person actually looks at the fax, needs to read it and then keys in information, starting with patient demographics into an EHR system to file that document. With our solution Clarity, we've deployed, and this was before the whole AI hype started a large language model-based solution. It's our proprietary technology. So we're not leveraging any of the hyperscalers here from an AI technology perspective. It's a vertical solution that actually reads a not only a fax document, but that's the primary use case document and understands the content of it. And based on that content, extract certain data points as it is prompted to do. So that's a technology that we deploy to our customers that we offer to our customers, and they became very, very creative, making this a difficult solution to deploy because we need a lot of professional services to deploy it. And came back to the conclusion that we need to help these customers find use cases for the deployment of that solution. So what we did is we build applications or agents or co-pilots or whatever you want to call it, on this Clarity platform for very specific document and very specific processes. The first one that we did was for prior authorization. Now being a product, we call Clarity PA, where we extract certain data points, specifically for the prior authorization process, where we can connect to a drug database to extract some more information and populate that information into the document and then can help payers and clearing houses process these prior authorizations in a faster manner. The second application that we built on top of Clarity was really more provider focused. So not so much in the payer space, which we call Clarity CD for clinical documentation. So when a fax comes into a provider, we extract certain data points, so the fax can be filed immediately and land in the patient record in the electronic healthcare system or record system for that provider. So it cuts out the manual process of actually reading the document and then keying in the demographics and filing that document. And it gets the document to the patient, to the provider a lot faster. So 2 great benefits accelerates the process and cuts out that manual labor in between reducing the administrative burden on the provider side. And as Scott mentioned, in the future, we're starting our first proof of concept here with customers. These -- all these technologies here and more are coming together on a single platform technology. So customers can pick and choose features based on a single API and deploy any kind of functionality that they need within that platform. That is really where the whole idea is going. They have these different solutions today, they seem like their single applications and they come together in one platform that customers can connect to and use. Now let me take you a little bit more into our customer continuum. We told you that it's really very broad, which is on the one hand a great benefit because on the lower end where we have come from with the SoHo world, we're creating a lot of cash flow. And on the other hand, obviously, it adds complexity, but it gives us a great opportunity to grow into -- more into the corporate space. So as you can see on the very left, and this is really by customer size and sales channel. On the very left, you see the e-commerce space. This is where the whole SoHo customer base is located. It's a self-sign-up service where customers can go on a web portal and say, "Hey, I need a fax number. I want to send a few or receive a few hundred pages per month." We assign them a number, they put in a credit card, and we process it. Now what we noticed is that more and more corporate customers actually wanted to or chose to buy that way. But we didn't give them the opportunity to procure the services through our e-commerce channel. We extended that throughout the last year, and now we see more and more customers on the corporate side now offering the corporate product in e-commerce as well sign up for those products. You see -- then we move more upmarket to the SMB space where we actually have an inside sales team. So this is very much marketing led. We have leads come in either through the web or through the telephone. There's a team picking up the phone, helping those customers sign up for our services. The deal size ranges really from roughly $200 -- $500 per month, all the way up to like $10,000, $15,000, $20,000 per month. We can do those deals easily on the phone or through video conferencing calls. The next group of customers, it really goes up quickly to larger accounts where we have more complex sales cycles. What you see the sales cycle is really where there's a big differentiator between those customer groups. It usually takes 4, 5, 6 months to close those larger deals. It also takes way longer to implement those deals. So the ramp time from closing the deal till the revenue shows up in our books and the customer actually uses the service is a lot longer. And then on the very right, you see the strategic accounts where we have our very, very largest customers and the federal government where the sales process is complex, sales cycles take up to 18 months, 2 years to go through the full process. And then again, it sometimes takes multiple years to deploy our services within those large organizations, as we are oftentimes replacing legacy technology that is very distributed and fragmented within those corporations, and we have to take them out piece by piece when these customers come on a centralized cloud application like ours. A couple more things that I think are important on this slide, and you can see a presentation of this on our website as well, is really the layers of opportunity within those different customer groups, we have different opportunities of up and cross-selling into those accounts. So the larger the accounts, the more opportunity we have to continuously upsell and position other solutions within those accounts, the solutions that I just presented to you on the prior slide. And with that, I'll hand it back to Scott.

Thank you, Johnny. So what I mentioned at the beginning is our financial highlights here on an LTM basis, but I want to unpack what is going on and refer you to the Q1 results because that will give greater insight in terms of what's happening. As we both mentioned, we have 2 streams of revenue, the corporate channel revenue and the SoHo channel, beginning really in Q3 of last year but more fulsomely beginning in Q1 of this year, we've made certain strategic decisions regarding the SoHo base of customers. So to give you an order of magnitude, last year, it was about $162 million of revenue. We're managing that decline down over a couple of year time frame. So this year, we expect it to be about $139 million in revenue. However, there's almost an equal amount of cost coming out of that stream of revenue. We're not seeing an impact on the EBITDA. As a result, revenues will come down this year. When we get to our full year guidance, you'll see about 4% to 5% in the aggregate, driven by that managed decline in the SoHo channel, but you'll see the EBITDA margins increase. That's evident not only in the LTM, but most noticeably in the Q1 results. As we get later into the year, we'll address what our views are for the SoHo channel in '25. But right now, that's our focus. We've shifted some of the marketing dollars out of the SoHo channel and given an increasing amount to the corporate channel. There is a common brand that Johnny mentioned, which is eFax. It spreads from the SoHo all the way up through our largest customers. So historically, the marketing dollars were primarily spent for that customer acquisition in SoHo that very transactional customer that we get very quickly, and there was much fewer dollars spend in corporate. We're starting to see a shift across those 2 channels away from SoHo and into corporate. So the impact, if you look on an LTM basis, is revenue decline of about 1.5% because the corporate channel is growing about 3% to 4%. Not by the way where we want it to grow. We're looking for double-digit growth over time. But given some of the headwinds that exist, particularly in the provider space with inflation and challenges to labor, we are seeing a more muted growth there that's roughly mid-single digits. So you'll see that decline on revenue. Having said that, you'll see there's basically flat EBITDA on an LTM basis. If you look at our Q1 results, you'll actually see EBITDA increasing year-over-year Q1 of '24 versus Q1 of '23. Our adjusted non-GAAP EPS actually is growing. There's several reasons for that, primarily because we built up a fair amount of cash since the spin. So as the Fed was raising rates, we began to earn more interest income. More importantly, what I'm going to get to in the next slide is we've been repaying and purchasing our debt in the open market, so our interest costs are coming down. There's some foreign currency that creates some noise positive and negative, but probably fairly muted on an LTM basis. And then we've had some degree of share repurchases, which has also helped reduce the share count and help the bottom line on an EPS basis. Now we're a very cash-generative company, as you can see, with these EBITDA margins. So on the far bottom, you'll see on an LTM basis, that $190 million of EBITDA translates even with us being levered to about $84 million of free cash flow. At the time of the spin, we were levered with $805 million of debt, 2 tranches, $305 million of 6% notes due October 26, $500 million of 6.5% notes due 2028 -- October of 2028. Substantially, all of that money that was raised went to the former parent in a cash tax-free distribution. So they got the cash, we got the debt. And we had certain limitations because we were spun out under a tax-free spin, the IRS had certain restrictions as part of the private letter ruling, one of which was we could not, in any form, retire any debt for the first 2 years of the spin. So until October of '23, we were barred from doing that. However, when we crossed that second anniversary in the fourth quarter of last year, our Board implemented a second repurchase program. So in February '22, we launched an equity repurchase program, which was designed to go 3 years and have $100 million. We repurchased about $30 million since inception of that program, so there's $70 million to go. But then in November '23, we launched a $300 million repurchase program focused on our 2 tranches of debt. And the reason we've done that is because we do have a refinancing coming up prior to October of '26 when the 6% notes mature. At the time we were spun, we were levered 4x gross debt to EBITDA. As we go towards that refinancing, we want the gross debt-to-EBITDA to be less than 3x, particularly given the change in the markets from when we issued that debt in the summer of '21. So of course, what we're currently witnessing over the last several quarters and prospectively over the next few quarters. The bond repurchase program has been extremely successful. It's been basically 6 months in real time since we've been repurchasing $126 million face amount of debt has been repurchased for $115 million of cash. So that $805 million of gross debt is now down to $679 million. We have cash balances at the end of Q1 of $62 million. I would note that the interest payments on our debt are in Q2, so the quarter we're in now in Q4. So if you look at the $84 million of free cash flow, it is not earned ratably over the 4 quarters, heavily biased to Q1 and Q3. So here is pictorially what's been going on with our gross debt-to-EBITDA, which is the red line, and then the black line is the net debt-to-EBITDA. So taking that $62 million of cash in the most recent period and assuming that was all used to retire debt at par. There you see the 2 tranches, the $305 million being reduced to $261 million. The $500 million of 6.5% is down to $418 million. And as I said, this program continues. These numbers are as of March 31. So we feel very confident that with the cash flow generation, the cash on the balance sheet and this repurchase program in place. While not all of our cash is necessarily going to retirement of debt, a substantial majority of it is currently allocated for that. And then finally, as I mentioned at the beginning, we're just reaffirming our guidance for the year. We also implemented this year quarterly guidance. So we're reaffirming both of those. At the midpoint, it would be $345 million of revs for the year, $188 million of EBITDA and $5.20 of EPS. And then for the quarter we're in, it's about to end in 3 weeks, $86.5 million of revs, $47.5 million of EBITDA and $1.33 in EPS. I would also point you to our website. There you'll find metrics for the corporate channel, the SoHo channel and the consolidated company. We also have a variety of videos that give you high-level demonstrations of each of the services that Johnny discussed. And I think we've got a little bit of time if there's a couple of questions. We thank you for your participation. Yes.

If you could lower the churn by a couple of percentage points, that would be very big for your cash flows.

Correct. So the churn has varied over the number of quarters since spin. One of the things we didn't mention is we implemented a price increase to the SoHo customer base beginning in July of '22 and ending in Q2 of '23. So it spanned 4 quarters across 2 fiscal years. Going into that price increase, the cancel rate was in the 3.4%, 3.5% per month. It then increased, as you would expect as you raise prices got close to 4% a month. And then as we exited, it's come down. Now 2 things are influencing the cancel rate as we go forward. Because we're reducing our marketing spend, there's less gross adds currently in the more recent quarters than there would have been previously. And as the cohorts age, the cancel rate naturally declines. A lot of the cancels in the SoHo business occur within the first year of sign up. So we see a natural declining trend in cancel rate. Yes, it is a focus that we have. Johnny, you may want to comment on some of the initiatives irrespective of the aging of the base, which will bring the cancel rate down to other initiatives we have to preserve those customers.

So there's 2 things we're doing in the [Technical Difficulty]. Obviously, we're still continuing to maintain the customers. But it's also the way that we actually position the product to address certain customer groups and analyze the sign-ups very closely to see what kind of customers are coming into that channel. So as Scott mentioned, a lot of the customers used to sign up, they use the product once because they had the need to send or receive a fax for one transaction, like they bought a house and they needed to send out documents or receive documents by fax. And then once they were done with that project, they canceled. What we have done is we have analyzed the way we acquire those customers. So what are the kind of advertisements that we're using to acquire those customers and what kind of customers do they attract. And we're focusing very much on the customers that actually need the product on a longer base, which would, for example, be a healthcare providers or a yoga teacher or something like that, a chiropractor when they need to exchange medical documents. And so we're focusing our advertising very much on the customers that have a longer-term need, which are then obviously returning not only the advertising costs that we're spending to win them, but also then add to the profitability.

So you're overspending with Google basically. And so you're too general, not very specific on your keywords. How has your Google spend trended because, like you said, your marketing dollars are falling, that seems to be the key about hitting the specific longer use case customers potentially, right?

Right. So we -- I don't know if it overspent. I think we could probably spend more -- be more specific in our spend. And that's really what the initiative was that we launched late last year. Once we were done with our price increase, we did a very, very close analysis of those individual campaigns. And then we looked at our LTV to CAC ratios on a campaign basis. So exactly to your point, we found out what campaigns yield what kind of customers, and we're doubling down on the ones that are yielding us the better customers and reducing the spend on the ones that I want to call them [ back ].

Maybe just the opposite basically the spend [Technical Difficulty]. Talk to us about that, like how is it yielding LTV versus CAC? That also is if you land a big fish of 100,000 huge, and you're only spending $100 or $200 per [ click ] or I don't know...

The marketing and corporate is much broader base. So we do things like go to HIMSS and ViVE. So you have not only a continuum of customer acquisition, but a continuum of marketing spend that ranges from online, which would include keyword searches for very specific terms, but also off-line where you've got trade shows and other forms of marketing. So you have different forms of LTV to CAC when you sort of homogenize it or put it all together. Some of that doesn't really lend itself to that classic metric particularly with the trade show environment because as Johnny mentioned, those are generating leads that pay back 2 to 3 years in the future.

I think maybe just...

Are we still webcasting or not? Anybody now? Okay.

Sorry, one more. Just maybe a rougher one. Sorry, apologies. Like, how do you get away from the perception of a melting ice basically, because of the technology? Like there is this new sort of government-imposed sort of standard, right? Like, you talk to us about how you're actually going to take advantage of that and come on top of that. So you are potentially the glue between all these providers, right, to be able to communicate. But as we go to a government standard, you mentioned what it was, like how do you not sort of get cost out...

No, actually, we're going to be even more valuable because you've got all of these entities, particularly on the periphery of the system, not so much your major medical centers that will actually be at some point. I'm not convinced as soon as you might think, but forced to communicate a certain way, and we can provide that translation for them. That's kind of where Harmony comes in if you want to take all the current suite of services and amalgamate them together. So that would be our view or answer playing out over time because the subsidies have not been there and are unlikely to be there or post-acute facilities, et cetera, but they're going to have to be [Technical Difficulty] at some point. Well, it's a different question, right? I think, as I mentioned, we have several quarters of which we've begun where the SoHo channel will decline in revenue. As I said a little later this year, we'll get to when we think that point of stabilization may come, whether that's in '25 or in '26, Corporate is already growing. The key is really stabilizing the SoHo revenue, albeit at a lower level than it was last year and then accelerating corporate growth ideally into the double-digit range. But of course, where we are today, we'd like to drive it to the high single-digit and then ultimately double digit. That is premised upon greater penetration within the healthcare space of the core fax solution, greater adoption of the interoperable solutions we mentioned. And then we didn't get into a lot of detail, but for example, the VA and the federal government is at very early stages in terms of its overall potential for us. The VA is a contract in-house. Some of the other federal agencies we've discussed in our variety of earnings calls are not yet under contract. But if you look at those 2 pieces over time, there's a large opportunity set of revenue there that's not in these numbers.

And maybe to add one more thing. I know it's perceived as a melting ice cube. In the healthcare space, the volumes are growing. So it's core fax. Even core fax. People are using more and more and more fax. So there's more transactions on individual customers, but also across the industry.

Okay. Great. Thank you.

Thank you.