Container Corporation of India Limited (CONCOR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q1 FY '21 Earnings Conference Call of Container Corporation of India Limited hosted by IDFC Securities. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Bhoomika Nair of IDFC Securities. Thank you, and over to you, Ms. Nair.

Thanks, Margaret. Good morning, everyone. On behalf of IDFC Securities, I would like to welcome you to the Q1 FY '21 Earnings Call of Container Corporation of India. We have the management today being represented by Mr. V. Kalyana Rama, CMD. I'll now hand over the floor to Mr. Rama for his initial comments, post which we'll open up the floor for Q&A. Over to you, sir.

Thank you. Thank you, Bhoomika. Good morning to all of you. This quarter is one of the toughest quarters for CONCOR for 2 reasons: one, the railway policy changed on LLF from per TEU payment to 6% of the value of the land; and second, COVID impacted the business all around. One saving grace that I would like to share with you that your company never stopped for a day even in the lockdown. We continue to provide our services, and the balancing of running between imports and exports maintained very well by our team -- operations team. The MT running cost did not increase compared to last quarter. In fact, they got reduced and the margins -- overall margins in all the segments remained intact. Of course, operating margin, there is a decline because of the increased LLF. So the LLF, because of 6% charges, there is a calculation from our side, which we calculated there around INR 450 crores on the land, which we are now having. As all of you know that we gave back 17 locations, where we found that the business can be handled from alternate locations available. Except one location, that is Bhusawal, everywhere else, we had alternate locations. We never -- we had not lose any business. Even Bhusawal also, we're trying to shift that into Aurangabad to some extent, and we are trying to find out a new location to start a facility in Bhusawal. So with all this impact and the reduction in the import/export, the volumes are around 75% to 80% of the corresponding quarter of last year. Even the turnover is also around that, slightly less because we moved MTs free of cost during the lockdown time to facilitate the Indian industry and Indian exports. So we lost a little bit of margins over there. The overall scenario is getting tough, definitely because the volumes are less. The demand is less, so there is a lot of discounts going on around in the market. So it's not an easy situation, a tough one, but as I mentioned to you, we are trying to maintain our margins and trying to maintain the service quality and pick up the volumes. And let's hope we will -- our team will be successful in achieving this. But as the time is going on, with the COVID, we may also have to think of going in with more competitive nature into the market. So the time will tell. As of now, Q1 results are before you, and our expectation is this Q2 and Q3, there may be some improvement. In Q4, we are expecting the things to come back to normal, as the manufacturing activity may start slowly from this quarter on, and they may get stabilized in Q3. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Atul Tiwari from Citigroup.

Sir, my question is on this land license fee. So in note to account #6, the INR 7.8 billion for Okhla and Tughlakabad that Indian Railways has asked for, what is the amount for all the terminals that you have on lease from Indian Railway? So that is the first question.

You see, it is like this. That is the demand what we got from the railways. The last conference call, many of you were asking about what will be the impact of land license. So we just made that this now gave this information that the railways calculation is this. But as per our calculation, as per the circulars in force, is INR 450 crores, for all the terminals, not only Okhla. So this already has been represented to railways, and we are working on that. And as I can share with you that the circulars are to be interpreted. So one interpretation, which has come is INR 770 crores for Okhla.

And sir, could you throw some light, what is the difference in your interpretation and the railways interpretation, broadly? Just to understand because the difference is quite big for INR 450 crores versus INR 780 crores.

That is what I told you. Our interpretation is INR 450 crores for all the lands.

Okay. But any color on how railway is interpreting it? And how is -- is it market value versus government circle rate, something like that?

That is too technical as for the -- let's -- see, there are certain circulars in force. The application of circular is the job of the executive. So executive making a calculation and raising a demand note is -- should be based on the circulars in force. So because this demand has come, it is, as good corporate governance, our endeavor is to maintain that, and that's why we informed to the market, this is the demand raised. But at the same time, we also clarified to all of you that as from circulars in force when we do the calculation this is for [ routine course ].

Okay. And sir, has railways raised any demand for other terminals, except for these 2 that you have mentioned in notes to account?

Except for this, there is no other demand raised.

Okay. And sir, just one housekeeping question. What was the originating volume in the quarter first, EXIM and domestic?

This, other people will ask. You are actually asking more than 2 questions. So let's wait for the other people's question for that information.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Lavina Quadros from Jefferies.

Just once again on the land license fee, 2 questions. One is your discussion with railways, by when do you think you could potentially reach a conclusion as to what is the land license fee that is acceptable to both the parties? Is it something that will get done in 3 months or 6 months? Secondly, is it an option for you at all that if the railways does not come down on the land license fees that you can move maybe one of the terminals and try and shift the business out? It's difficult, but just want to understand how you all are looking at it at this stage.

Well, I'll answer your second question first. Wherever we thought that there is no point in continuing business and we got an alternative, we already surrendered those 17 terminals back to railways, okay? So as I mentioned in the last conference call that there is no second wave in this. It's only one wave, so we will not be surrendering further terminals as of now, as the business continues. Regarding the decision of railways, I can't comment on when they are going to do it, in 1 month, 2 months or 3 months. But the calculation, what we do, definitely, we are very sure that we are doing a right calculation. So we will be standing on our calculations, and we will be communicating with railways regarding this.

The next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from JM Financial.

My first question is with respect to the land license once again. How much is Tughlakabad as a percentage of our total volume? And number two, if, let's say, this is a, sir, theoretical hypothetical question I'm asking. If this goes in to dispute and goes into courts, could that bring the impact on the operations?

It is -- going to court is very long gone, and I think it's a very wild guess. We are working -- we are a PSU under Ministry of Railways and Ministry of Railways is an administrative ministry. So the things are always started out, okay? So let's not speculate I'm going to court and all that. Now regarding the TKD, TKD is one of the important terminals, and yes, definitely, the land license fee of TKD is high because of the land value at TKD is quite high.

Would you be able to give you any mix? And so what would be the mix coming from TKD on the originating?

That is beyond the scope of the conference call.

Understood. And just one more question with respect to the rail state margin for the quarter. And you had indicated the margins of 30%, 32%...

See people have many doubts about land license and all, no, let's do 2 questions per people, okay? All these things will get repeated automatically.

The next question is from the line of Bhavin Gandhi from B&K Securities.

Just firstly, on the real freight margins for the quarter. Can you share the numbers?

Yes. Rail freight margin this quarter, we had 28%, 28.66% compared to the corresponding quarter, 28.16%.

Sure. Got it, sir. And sir, recently, the Indian Railways have kind of reduced the haulage charges by about 5% in March. So how are we going to deal with this? Are we likely to retain this or if we look at passing on this -- the freight given the volume trajectory?

It will be a case-to-case thing. We are not directly taking any across-the-board decision for this 5%. So we got our own VDS schemes and discount schemes for all the various categories. So this 5% will be delta on a case-to-case basis.

The next question is from the line of Ankur Periwal from Axis Capital.

Sir, first question is on the realization front. You did mention higher share from MT's repositioning, because of which probably there is a decline in realization. But just trying to understand on the ground rent front, now because of what we understand the delays from the customer's side in terms of picking up the containers, are there any ground rents? Did you see any improvement or change in ground rent or because we had raised off ground rents, so that doesn't matter us as much?

Our DFC has slightly gone up compared to the last year, okay. So there is an improvement of, maybe, around 30% in the DFC earnings, but our policy of 45 days and 90 days is continuing.

Okay. Because -- so the decline in the margin then is largely because of the land license fee only. Is that understanding right?

Your understanding, I don't want to ratify it. I will give you the reasons.

Okay. No worries, sir. Sir, on the MT running side, you said there was a decline there. So if you can share the numbers, both on the domestic and EXIM side?

MT running? MT running cost is...

INR 21 crores, sir, for EXIM and INR 16.74 crore for domestic. So total in INR 38 crores compared to INR 48 crores of last year, that is 22% decline.

Sir if I got the numbers right, INR 21 crores for Q4 -- Q1 for EXIM and INR 16.7 crores for domestic?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

The next question is from the line of Prateek Kumar from Antique Stock Broking.

Sir, my first question is on -- so I mean, you mentioned about the discount's trends continuing. So -- when the volumes, like, for example, dipped in this quarter and they remain pressured, so has that discounting increased? And you also mentioned that we could also, like, move in that direction, in your opening remarks. So you also like, I mean, looking to give more discounts going forward?

Yes, our discount schemes are very well-established schemes. Recently, we started -- we, in fact, expanded our discount scheme on export/import, wherein we started giving more discounts and exports to shipping lines also, that's -- that become quite attractive shipping line. So looking at the market conditions, we will be coming out with various schemes. That was what I was mentioning in my opening remarks.

All right. And sir, regarding CapEx, how are we looking at CapEx in this year, with like pressure on operating profit and generally depressed market condition?

CapEx? Operating profit will not get impacted by CapEx. CapEx is out of our -- the P&L, where we will keep our reserves, we will be spending towards further expansions. But to answer your question, this time, CapEx, we're actually trying to scale down from earlier levels, because the demand is less this year as well as the demand will not immediately pick up next year also because of COVID.

So we are looking at like any specific number? Between INR 800 crore to INR 1,000 crores?

That I will share with you once we finalize that with -- the certain agencies are involved in it. We have to first finalize with them, then I can share the numbers with you.

The next question is from the line of Bhoomika Nair from IDFC Securities.

Yes, sir, just wanted to understand with the increase in land license fee, whether it's INR 480 crores or the higher number of what Indian railways is talking about, will we look to pass this on, because it's a fairly sharp jump in our cost? So will we be taking a price hike to kind of pass this on? Is that practical for us to do?

You see our price raising is depending on the market conditions. It is not based on the input costs alone. So as of now, the volumes are less, the competition is very high. So we are not thinking of increasing any prices immediately, as the competition is very high, and the competitors are really giving discounts, which maybe untenable discounts.

Okay. And my second question is on the guidance in terms of volumes you had indicated at the end of the financial year that this would see kind of a 20% decline for the current year. But given that port volumes are recovering quite well, would you want to revisit that guidance? And also, if you can just tell what has been the lead distances and the originating volume, sir?

Guidances are not changing, which I discussed with Sanjay Swarup.

But Bhoomika, actually, port have also seen a reduction of 28% in first quarter as compared to the first quarter of last financial year. So ports are also having a difficult time. And as far as lead is concerned, our lead in EXIM has -- is 683 kilometers in this quarter and domestic, it is 1,262 kilometers.

The next question is from the line of Rushabh Sharedalal from Pravin Ratilal Share and Stock Brokers Limited.

I just had two questions. One is if you can help me with the working capital cycle in a number of days for this quarter? And second is pertaining to the disinvestment. I understand that the matter pertains to DIPAM. But all I want to ask is that, let's say if DIPAM says that the CONCOR shall go into disinvestment, is CONCOR completely ready? Or are any formalities from our end remaining?

To your first question, our working capital, we have 0 working capital, okay. So there is no working capital cycle. We do business in that -- by taking the advanced payments. And regarding divestment, I think there's a lot of media reporting around. And beyond that, I can't share things with you.

No, I understand that. I'm not asking about the media reports on anything. What I want to know is that all our formalities from our end ready? Or is something pending from our end? That's all I want to know.

That's nice. It's nice to know, but see certain things we can't share with you, okay. Let the things come out. There will -- obviously, everything will be given to the press and the information will flow from DIPAM only. They are the concerned department.

The next question is from the line of Deepika Mundra from JPMorgan.

Firstly, I just wanted to check on the land license fee, how much of it was accounted for in the quarter? And it seems like it's not being capitalized on balance sheet and flowing through all other expenses?

No, no. It is for -- INR 120 crores for this year, we have already made the provision because we have not paid it, but provisions have been made in P&L. And you can see there is INR 95 crores enhancement in the LLF, contributing to expenses, other expenses on the freight, apart from freight, in this Q1 and compared to the last Q1.

Okay. So is INR 95 crores is included in other expenses and balancing the [ breakages ]?

That is a little impact vis-à-vis last quarter.

Got it, sir. And sir -- this...

This is total reserve accounted for in this quarter.

Sorry, could you repeat that?

INR 120 crores is the total LLF for this quarter.

Okay. And sir, secondly, I just wanted to check on all non-rail revenues, given all the recent initiatives, was there a significant contribution in this quarter?

What revenue?

Non-rail revenue, so basically their housing, third-party logistics or the other initiatives that you had started off, any significant momentum on that?

Nothing. Nothing as such. Nothing as such.

Nothing. No. There is no improvement in that.

Okay. Sir, lastly, can you give the originating volume?

Originating volume for EXIM is 413,587 TEU and domestic 51,146 TEUs, total 464,733 TEU.

The next question is from the line of Ajinkya Bhat from Macquarie.

Sir, two questions. First question is, can you provide us a qualitative comment on how has been the double stacking this quarter? Was there any decline in double-stack trends because of low volumes? And has that perhaps led to higher haulage charge on a per TEU basis because you are not able to full -- fill the upper stack at the lower haulage charge? That's the first question. And second question is on the land license fee. Just wanted to understand the accounting treatment in the sense that while you discuss it out with railways, would you be making a provision in your P&L for this higher fee? And will you be required to make the cash payment to railways according to their demands, while you still discuss it out?

As far as double stacking is concerned, there has been 55% drop in this quarter as compared to the corresponding quarter of last year, from 758 reps to -- it has come down to 338 -- 338 reps, primarily because of less imports. Imports have also seen a drop of 27%. So this has resulted in the drop in double stack. For land license fee, Director of Finance will give the reply.

So as you have seen from a quarter, there is an impact of INR 120 crores of LLF. That is INR 95 crores higher than the last quarter so far as provision is concerned. Now answering to your question regarding the payment, so actual payment has not been done in this quarter. We are awaiting the clarification between our calculations and the railway calculations. And we hope that as and when this calculations are sorted out and we come to a mutual agreement, these payments will be done in cash basis. Till the time, this rate of INR 450 crores as [indiscernible] right in the beginning, per quarter, 1/4 of that will be provisioned.

Okay. Okay. Understood. So basically, whatever extra amount that railways is demanding, INR 770 crore, the differential, whatever INR 300 crore, you will not be providing for that right away during the waiting period?

That we're treating as a contingent liability, but that is not provided for as of now, because we think that is not correct.

The next question is from the line of Mukesh Saraf from Spark Capital.

There's also a clause of a 7% hike in this land license fees. So does that apply even to your way of interpreting it? Or is that only on railways, you are interpreting it, sir?

It will apply.

Okay. That will apply to -- so basically, the INR 450 crores will go up by 7% for us every year?

Yes.

Okay. And secondly is, there's also a change in the way the customs is going to be operating more of an automatic kind of customs in most of the ICDs. So do you see any positive or any changes at all for us the way the customs will change their operations?

Customs, whatever they already implemented, that, we are not expecting anything, but we are going with our own digitization things. Our own digitization, I'm sure that we're going to improve our service quality much more. There is a lot of improvement in our service quality in the last 4, 5 years. And we will -- we are now trying to take it to a next level. We are working on something very important. And as and when it finalizes, we will let you know.

Okay. But so basically, the reason I asked that was there's going to be some changes basically faceless customs clearance, et cetera, at ICDs, like TKD, and all the other ICDs, so that's not going to have any positive or negative impact for the assumption?

There's no positive net from customs procedures, but there will be positive impact from our own digitization.

The next question is from the line of [ Pranav Tendulkar ] from Rare Enterprises.

So in the sixth note, you have said that you had requested railways to charge the previous TEU-based fee up till the time that you are a PSU. So basically, it seems that this provision has been made in view of your privatization or divestment and this process will speed up? Am I right in interpreting this? Because, obviously, private players will object to you getting beneficial treatment as a private player?

I already answered the ones, I think, earlier, one of your colleagues that I will not ratify your ideas. You see, we made an appeal. We have already shared that with all of you as a good corporate governance practice. Now why we accounted for, that is as per the accounting practices. There are certain accounting practices, which are called Ind AS 116. So these accounting practices, we -- what are all the liabilities, we have to take note of them and we have to account for them. We can't leave it and show more profit. That is not the way the companies run. And more so, CONCOR, which is one of the very well-respected corporate governance practices company will never do that.

No, no. My question is different. My question is that this provision has been...

That's what I said. Your interpretation, I'm not going to ratify it, okay. Your interpretation may not be correct, maybe correct, we do not know. Why should I talk about that? Why we did, I already explained to you. This is the reason why we did this. No other consideration. This is as per the Ind AS practices.

The next question is from the line of [indiscernible] from Mahindra Manulife Invesment Management.

On the land license fees, in the past, since you are paying on a per-TEU basis, you may not have optimized the land that you are using at TKD and Okhla. Is there a chance you can give back some portion of the land and reduce your LLF if railways doesn't agree to reducing the fees that they are going to charge?

I already answered this question. Whatever land has to be written back, as not required in the present business environment, we already returned it back. So there is no second wave on this.

The next question is from the line of Ankit Panchmatia from B&K Securities.

Sir, just to understand from your point of view the importance of TKD with CONCOR. How important is this terminal for us? What are the operations we are kind of -- we feel crucial to CONCOR at this point of time, which PKD and Okhla is enabling for CONCOR? If you can just throw some light on this, it would be very helpful, sir.

We are operating 64 terminals. Every terminal is important to us, and TKD is one of it, okay. So volume-wise TKD is in the first 5 terminals where we do good volumes. That impact is, obviously, you can understand. And regarding TKD, many players would like to have a terminal in the vicinity of TKD, which is not possible. That is why people keep on talking about TKD. And let me assure all our investors that TKD is going to operate and will continue to operate, as a one of -- as I said, one of the leading 5 terminals of contract.

Right. Right. Right. Great. And sir, any update regarding how has been the ramp-up in the -- maybe in the current quarter? Any flavor around this? How has been the -- there has been a terminal like JNPT, which was impacted because of this heavy rainfall, the cranes were fallen. So any impact on our volumes because of that?

We don't give guess numbers. For the current quarter, you have to wait for the results.

The next question is from the line of Koundinya N. from JM Financial.

Sir, my first question is with respect to employee costs. Though on a year-on-year basis, there doesn't seem to be marginal difference, on Q-o-Q basis, there is a 32% uptick. So how should we look at it going ahead?

Actually, the PRP, that is profitability-linked incentives that we pay, that is normally paid in the last quarter. So if you can see first quarter of every year, so you can see Q1 and Q1, it is almost in the same line, INR 80 crores and INR 78 crores. And in Q4, because it is a normal kind of event and there are a lot of adjustments in the Q4, when we made provisions in the first 3 quarters, and if there is more provisions than the [Audio Gap] for the fourth quarter. So that is an impact in the Q4. But Q1 to Q1 this -- because this PRP payment, profitability-linked incentive payments have been done, so you find that it is a comparison.

So sir, how should we look at it for the full year FY '21?

Full year, as you know, there is no intake of a stress employee in the company, as we had just mentioned in the last con call also. We have optimized our manpower. In fact, this is reducing a bit only as per the attrition -- as per the normal [indiscernible] at all. So we don't see any increase in staff [indiscernible] in this employee at all.

Okay. Understood. Sir, my second question is with respect to the restructuring that has been happening. You, in fact, notified the exchanges that there has been restructuring at the zonal level and all that. And then there are also media articles that state that you're compressing 8 regions into 4 and then having specific wings for warehousing and focus on first and last rail connectivity, et cetera. So your thoughts on it? And what is it that the company is thinking about it and the strategy behind this?

You see we were working in three-tier structure, terminal, regions and corporate office. So we have done in lot of digitization, we did in the last 4, 5 years. And that I call it wiring of the company. The company got fully wired now. So we can get information from anywhere to anywhere and the free flow of information is available in the company. Today we are paperless office completely. Having achieved all this, we thought that we need not go with three-tier structure. Now we can go with two-tier structure. So there is a front end, there is a back end. The front end is our terminal office and the back end is the corporate office. So now in the media reporting that we made 8 regions into 4, that is not correct. Actually, we made three-tier into two-tier. And in corporate office, we emphasized our terminal operations, only for marketing and operations, where I can divide 4 areas to look after different terminals. So that's part of the corporate office. The structure is basically to increase the efficiency and the speed of working.

Understood. Understood. Sir, if I can squeeze in one last question. Sir, the discount on freight movement, on freight charges of 5% discount, so will you be retaining that? Or will it be passed through to customer?

I have answered this. Next participant, please?

The next question is from the line of Atul Tiwari from Citigroup.

Sir, my question has been answered.

The next question is from the line of Amit Murarka from Motilal Oswal.

Two questions from me. One on, you had mentioned in the prior call that we had done a price hike, but then deferred it to October 1, 2020. So could you just provide some more details on that? Or are you still planning to implement it from October 1, 2020?

As of now, we have not given any further announcement.

Okay. And what would be the quantum of the hike?

See it varies from 3% to 5%.

Sure. And on SEIS, like how much scripts are still outstanding? Has this thing been received this quarter?

What SEIS?

Yes, yes. The scripts for SEIS?

SEIS scripts, now whatever have been denied, they are denied. And whatever we got it, we already...

Monetizing it.

Monetizing it, that the process is completed.

So whatever is not disputed, has all been received. And I think INR 861 crores is what was the disputed amount from.

Yes, yes.

The next question is from the line of [ Aditya Damani from Damani Securities ].

I'd like to ask you something regarding the competition in light of the COVID situation and the lockdown. And with the truck movements and coastal shipping also getting some precedents, how are we placed versus coastal shipping and truck shipping -- truck movement, sir?

In fact, the areas where we operate, there is not much of competition from coastal. So -- but yes, road movement, road is a competitor. But as of now, I think there are many constraints on road movement. So a lot of people are preferring rail mode of transport, and that is how we are getting good volumes in exports.

Right. So when you said earlier on the call, sir, that there is a lot of competition that you were referring to private players in the railway lines then?

All competition together, private players, road, everything put together. [ Competition ] because of low volumes, the -- obviously, when the going gets tough, tough gets going, so people try to offer more discounts, they reduce their prices to just stay afloat. That puts a lot of pressure on us, because we are one company, we operate with good margins, with good service qualities, and we don't want to go for price wars. But then it puts a lot of pressure on us.

Right. So I believe we are turning to be the preferred mode -- the preferred operator. Due to the COVID situation, people are preferring to go through CONCOR now instead of other mode of transport? Is that correct? More so than before?

Again, I can't ratify your idea. I don't want to make that statement.

The next question is from the line of Ankita Shah from Elara Capital.

Sir, you said INR 450 crores of land license fee is your estimate. So can you explain how do you arrive at this calculation? Is based on what assumptions or what percentage of the market value of land on which it is calculated?

See the calculation is 6% of the market value is INR 450 crores. So you are a well-educated lady, so you can easily do what is the market value, do the reverse calculation.

Sure. Yes, sir. And sir, this INR 980 crores, which railways has demanded, for 2 terminals, what are the -- what about the balance terminals? Have they indicated on what would [ be charge ] for the guidance.

So I answered this question. The demand has come from only these 2 terminals as of now.

So but then any indication on what would be the amount for balance terminal?

See don't get confused. See the calculation based on the circulars in force, railway circulars in force, which we did our calculation, calculation is INR 450 crores. But for 2 terminals, the railways has raised a demand note of this much, that is what we are sharing with you as a good governance practice.

I got that, sir. But I was asking from railways perspective, INR 980 crores is for 2 terminals. So for balance terminals, what is...

There is no railway perspective in this. Railway perspective, CONCOR perspective, everybody's perspective will be as per the circular in force. So it is a question of the interpretation of the circular by the executives sitting in some chair and working out these figures. So the individuals may do right or wrong. The original basic concept will never change. That is what I was trying to impress upon all of you that when we say our calculation is INR 450 crores, the basis is this. The calculations may differ.

The next question is from the line of Pulkit Patni from Goldman Sachs.

Just one. Sir, while it's, eventually, we'll see whether the railway number or your number, whichever prevails, but my question is does this give us any extra flexibility to develop any parallel revenue stream or do more work using that land? Like paying a higher price, does that offer us more flexibility on how we can use that land or lesser restriction of how we can use that land? Any comments on that?

No, whatever in logistics industry, what we can do, we can do right now. We were allowed to do earlier also, we are allowed to do in future also. So there has been nothing -- something new extra we can add, which is not in the logistics side.

Sure. So this doesn't this in the scope -- this doesn't change any scope? It's just an additional fee? That's the way one should look at it?

Next question.

The next question is from the line of Shrinidhi Karlekar from HSBC.

Sir, would it be possible to comment on how has market share moved in Q1 versus, say, last year?

Based at market share, in Q1 of last financial year was 57.5%, and now it 64%.

Okay. And sir, one last one, if I may. Sir, would it be possible to share how has been the rail coefficient change in Q1 this year compared to last year at Mundra and JNPT depot?

JNPT, actually, this last Q1 rail share was 16%, which has become 25% now. And in Mundra, it was 27%, and now it is 25.5%.

Ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Bhoomika Nair for closing comments.

Yes, sir, thank you so much for taking time out and answering all our questions, giving us an opportunity. On behalf of IDFC Securities, would like to thank all the participants for being on the call. Thank you very much, sir.

Thank you, Bhoomika.

Thank you. On behalf of IDFC Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.