Container Corporation of India Limited ($CONCOR)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Container Corporation of India Limited Q4 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call, hosted by DAM Capital Advisors. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Kunal Shah from DAM Capital Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Yes. Good afternoon. Welcome to the 4Q F '26 Earnings Call of Container Corporation of India. We have the management being represented by Mr. Sanjay Swarup, Chairman and Managing Director. I'd like to hand over the call to Sanjay sir for his opening remarks, post which can take up the Q&A. Over to you, sir. Thank you.

Yes. Good morning to all. I am accompanied by Mr. Ajit Kumar Panda, Director, Projects and Services; Mr. Vijoy Kumar Singh, Director, International Marketing and Operations; Mr. Vivek Gupta, Director, Finance and CFO; and Mr. Harish Chandra, Principal Executive Director, Finance and the Company Secretary of our company. I will just make the opening remarks, and then I will open for a question-and-answer session. I'm glad to announce that Board of Directors have approved the dividend of INR 1 per share of par value INR 5 for -- that is interim dividend for quarter 4. This made the total dividend of INR 8.6 per share, which is 172% of the par value of share. This is the -- in yesterday's Board of Directors meeting, it was approved. I would like to outline the challenges being faced by international trade in FY '25, '26. Most of you are quite well aware of that. There are a lot of geopolitical uncertainties which is due to the international conflicts and trade tensions. And this has severely disrupted the global supply chains and increased the trade risks. There are trade restrictions and tariffs by United States up to 50% were imposed during the year. And this has severely affected the volumes, especially in textiles and marine products. And then there was a global economic slowdown in U.S., Europe and parts of Asia. There are currency fluctuations also, exchange rate instability is there with -- all these factors are impacting the EXIM trade. India's international trade that is merchandise trade for -- was as under for the FY exports were totaled USD 441.8 billion, which was a growth of 0.9% over the previous financial year. Imports were USD 774.9 billion, which was a growth of 7.45% over the previous year. Despite these challenges, our company, Container Corporation achieved our highest throughput of 5.58 million TEUs in FY '26, which was a growth of 9.6% in which EXIM growth was 8% and domestic growth was 14.6%. Our rail freight margin increased from 25% to 17.16%, which is quite a healthy rail freight margin is a growth of 1.51%. Our overall operating margin increased from 29.99% to 30.89%. It's a growth of almost 1%. Our operating income increased by 2.2%. Our PAT suffered a decrease of 4.5%. The main reasons are the less demand in domestic streams, primarily the Gunny Bales traffic and tiles traffic due to the geopolitical conflicts. Second reason is the shortage of tank containers because the ecosystem of tank container, it's a new product. In our country that the ecosystem was not there. Due to that, in last FY, we could not get a good supply of tank containers. But now the ecosystem is quite well developed. We have 2, 3 good vendors, and we have a fleet of 500 tank containers with us right now. And every month, we are adding 200 tank containers to this fleet. Yesterday, I'm glad to inform you, Board of Directors further approved the procurement of 2,000 more tank containers, apart from 1,000 tank containers approved earlier. So in this FY, we will have a very good availability of tank containers, which will give us good bloating of bulk cement in domestic. Apart from that, the reason for decline in PAT was the challenges faced by international trade, as I already highlighted. The growth in double stack rates was 1.5% from 6,302 double stack to 6,396 double stacks, rates in this financial year. And there is a very big development taking place that already most of you may be knowing, DFC connected to connectivity to JNPT will be commissioned by 1st June 2026, so we are quite ready. And last week, I had a meeting with top management of DFC Corporation, and they are quite optimistic that this -- from 1st June, they will be able to run double stack trains to JNPT. So we will be getting a very good business from first June. We will be running double-stack train from NCR to JNPT and EXIM volumes will get a very big boost with -- as a result of this connectivity. Then during the financial year, CONCOR signed MOU for Bharat Container Shipping Line, in which we have a 30% stake. We are one of the majority partners of Bharat Container Shipping Line. And as to the Amrit Kaal Vision of Honorable Prime Minister, this shipping line will be in the top 10 shipping lines of the world by 2047. CONCOR containers are now going to Middle East. Of course, because of the conflict, this movement has stopped. Otherwise, our containers, almost 700 containers have gone to Middle East under our own document that we have issued the bill of lading for these containers. We have -- we are quite bullish on infrastructure additions. We have commissioned 43 high-speed rakes in this financial year, taking total to 423. And we have procured 4,729 new containers taking our total fleet size to 57,746 containers of our own. And due to the excellent operation planning, we reduced the empty running of rakes also and by -- in EXIM by 27% and domestic around 4%, overall, 10.5% reduction in empty running of rakes. This has positively contributed to our bottom line. So the company is quite conscious about the ESG norms. We have taken a lot of green logistics initiatives. We have 230 LNG trucks of our own. We have 5 electric RSTs and 2 electric vehicles which we are using for trial basis and once -- and we are quite seeing good results, we will be procuring more of them. CapEx achieved in last financial year was one of the highest, which is INR 1,085.20 crores. And in this financial year, yesterday, Board of Directors have approved a CapEx budget of INR 945 crores. We may be increasing the budget during the midyear review, and -- because we need a lot of CapEx for infrastructure additions. Now I will briefly summarize the business current scenario. In EXIM, we crossed INR 6,000 crores, that is INR 60 billion for the first time, that is revenue. For the first time in the company's history, which is all-time high. EXIM has performed extremely well. We achieved 4.21 million TEUs handling, only through EXIM, which is again ever highest in the company's history. WDFC connectivity will give a very big boost to volumes in this financial year and now from the coming years. And we have signed MOU with PSA that is Port of Singapore Authority, for dedicated services between GNPA and CONCOR ICDs. This will be a big driver for growth for EXIM in the coming years. In the last financial year, we achieved export growth in -- of total 3% in which auto parts achieved a growth of 17%. Buffalo meats 19%, aluminum ingots 22% besides other commodities. Imports, we achieved a growth of 5.8% in which auto parts contributed 38%; solar panel parts 92%, and polymer products 23%. We also unveiled a liberalized DPD and policy, which was very well received by trade, and we saw a 38% increase in our DPD volumes, which is now further going to grow in this financial year also. In collaboration with the leading shipping line Maersk, we launched the Aushadi Express from our Hyderabad ICD Sanath Nagar to JNPT, and it is also very well received. All these drugs are normally -- usually, they go to Western countries, U.S.A. and Europe, primarily U.S.A. So this is also a very good product that has been launched by us from Hyderabad, and we are getting good patronization from trade. Our reefer exports also saw a very good growth of 17%. It's a healthy growth. And this financial year also there is a good demand in reefer volumes. At almost all the ports we recorded growth in imports like in JNPT, there were 12% growth, Mundra 8.8%, Chennai 14%; and Vizag 28% growth in our reports. Now I will come to domestic. Domestic, our product that we launched, bulk cement transportation in tank containers is very well received by trade. We are getting a lot of demand and now the supply of tank containers is also coming. So we are quite well positioned in this financial year to capitalize on this new stream, which we are going to -- and normally in domestic, we are doing 14 million to 15 million tonnes of loading. And I'm quite positive that in this financial year itself, we will be able to do at least 1 million tonnes of bulk cement in tank containers in domestic. Besides that, our trials for bulk loading of food grains in containers, along with liners, it has been successful. And very soon, we are going to start that also. We are running a short transit time frame from Tughlakabad Delhi to Shalimar Kolkata, which has also contributed to increase in our volumes, and several new services, transit will be very soon announced by Indian Railways. Indian Railways, in fact, is working on various reforms for container sector, and we are expecting various -- so many reforms from Indian Railways, which will be unveiled in the coming weeks, which we will be informing all of you in due course of time. We have -- we are also in talks with Gas Authority, GAIL and Petronet, and we are expecting very good volumes from them. That also we'll inform you once we receive the orders. Apart from that, Gunny Bales traffic, which suffered quite badly in last financial year is likely to be revived in this financial year. There are quite firm indications for that, which will positively contribute to our domestic volume. Now going forward, as I told you, the vectors which will contribute to our business, I would like to summarize them. First is WDFC commissioning and assured transit trains. Second is double stacks at our locations in Salawas and Chharodi. Salawas is near Jodhpur. Chharodi is near Ahmedabad. Chharodi will be on DFC. So these new terminals will contribute to double stacks. We will bring to Jodhpur. Ahmedabad already of course, double stack is there, but we don't have a facility of double stack, so we hope to ramp up good volumes at Chharodi also. And besides that, we have commissioned new terminals like Mandalgarh, Kadakola, Near Mysuru, Jajpur and Paradip, which will also bring new traffic to our company. Then Nepal traffic that is going at present to Birgunj. We have opened another point at Raxaul, where we are handling the containers. Crane handling is allowed by Indian Railways. So Birgunj and Raxaul, 2 points. Apart from that, Biratnagar, very soon, we will be starting. So Nepal traffic also, there will be good growth in this financial year. And lastly, we are quite positive for shipping business. We are already moving -- we were already moving to Middle East before the conflict. And now Far East also, we have started moving. And apart from that, we are a major component of Bharat container shipping line, as I already informed. This will be also a big driver in the coming years. I would like to now give the guidance for this financial year '27 EXIM, I would like to give a guidance of 8%. Domestic, I would like to give guidance of 15%. Overall, will be 9.5%. Of course, I'm a bit conservative because of the various geopolitical factors, which are right now present, and in the midyear, we will review the -- our performance and various environment around us, and we will go for a revision if required for this guidance. But right now, it is EXIM 8%, domestic 15%, overall 9.5%. In the present market scenario, I feel it is better not to make any long-term guidance forecast. So I will adhere to only this financial year guidance. For subsequent years, we will tell when the situation stabilizes around us. Thank you very much. This is my opening remarks. Now you can start with your questions.

[Operator Instructions] First question is from the line of Mukesh Saraf from Avendus Spark.

My first question is regarding the DFC connectivity from JNPT starting next week itself. If you could give some sense on the size of the opportunity here, say, either road moving to rail or lines calling at JNPT and say because of this rail connectivity now. This will kind of give us some sense on what kind of volumes we can kind of ship across JNPT to NCR.

At present, the rail coefficient at JNPT is, for the last financial year, it was 15.12%. And with this connectivity, overnight, it will not increase. But in this FY, I'm sure from 15%, at least, it will go to 18% to 19%. So there are quite good indications that -- and we will be actually running time table assure transit train from NCR to JNPT. And secondly, we will be tinkering with our tariff also because our company believes that without sacrificing margins, if we incur some savings, we will share those savings with our customers. Part of the savings. So because in double stack, we have to pay less the charges to railways. So we'll be having some savings on 40-feet containers. So we will be coming out with a very competitive tariff that will be light cargo, which is at present moving by role. So transit time will reduce and our tariff will also at par or very competitive with road. So we are quite positive and a lot of traffic will shift from road to rail. Right now, numbers I cannot give you. But I'm very sure that this shift will be there in another 3 years' time, rail coefficient will increase from 15% to at least 30% or 35% at JNPT. And as far as the movement from Mundra to JNPT and all is concerned. At the moment, I would like to -- not like to comment on that. Let us see how the trade takes it and shipping lines and trade, they will see these service levels and what advantage they will get, what other dynamics they have. And they will take a decision. At present, we have the service at Mundra also. We have the service at JNPT also. So -- and we have signed, in fact, an agreement with PSA at JNPT. So from our side, we are able to give service to customers from both the ports. They have to decide that where do they want to bring the cargo.

Got it. Got it. That's quite clear, sir. And secondly, on the tariffs you had mentioned, aren't we -- I mean, what we are reading is that road tariff is going up, with diesel, et cetera, kind of moving up. Are you starting to already see some kind of a shift from road to rail because road freight rates are going up, while I guess Indian Railways has been quite aggressive on the rail side of it. If you could talk a little more on the economics between road and railways.

See rail is a green mode of transport and it is an environment-friendly mode of transport. So I am a great advocate for rail transportation. We should have long-distance transportation by rail. So definitely, efforts should be to move more and more cargo by rail. So where whatever sectors are contributing to it and -- but the rail transportation at the end of the day should increase. And for your information, at JNPT, there was a very big congestion some few days back due to various reasons, you may be reading. And because -- and CONCOR came forward, I also spoke to Chairman and the top management of JNPT. So we evacuated a lot of containers from JNPT to our facility at Dronagiri. And all this evacuation was done through rail only. We deployed the special rakes and transportation was done between JNPT and our terminal. So rail definitely helped us a lot in easing the condition. And now JNPT is having a huge imports now. So it's dealing with a lot of volumes. So definitely, rail is a preferred mode of transport for our country as a whole.

Sure, sir. Sure. And just one last question from my side. You have mentioned about Assured transit time services. Say in F '26, could you give us some sense on what percentage of your services are running on assured transit time. And what could this go up to say next year?

Percentage-wise, if you compare from our overall volume, it is a negligible percentage. But I should say that it's a welcome beginning by Indian Railways, which is welcomed by the trade. So if I go a percentage, it is a very meager percentage. But more and more reforms in the form of various other things and assure transit, more services are being announced by Indian Railways because they are seeing the benefits of that. So these are small steps being taken and we should welcome these steps. Because ultimately, eventually, it will again divert traffic to rail.

Next question is from the line of Sumit Kishore from Axis Capital.

So if you can elaborate on your thoughts around the West Asia crisis, which is still ongoing. And we are almost 2 months into the June quarter, what has been the disruption in terms of volumes for EXIM and domestic, if you could give us a flavor and very difficult to give an outlook here. But given you have left us with an 8% growth guidance on EXIM and 15% for domestic, what kind of a slow start do you expect in the first half of the fiscal? That is my first question.

See, as far as the West Asia crisis is concerned, our volumes were impacted in the month of March due to which last FY also, our results were -- we were expecting more at least we could not perform that much. And April was also not very good. But from the month of May, we are again seeing an upsurge in our volumes, which is a good indication. So probably the other markets like U.S. and Europe and Far East, they are now contributing a lot. And Government of India has signed various FDAs with various countries. That is also positively impacting the business. We are getting good import volumes at all the gate reports and FDAs have a very important role to play in that. And I'm quite sure that whatever guidance I have given taking all these factors into consideration, we have worked out, and now we are giving this guidance. So we are quite positive to achieve this guidance.

Sure. My second question is on the domestic segment revenue growth, a decline of 4% in the March quarter, and the domestic EBIT margin -- segment EBIT margin was just 0.2%. So if you could help us quantify the impact that the West Asia crisis in March, particularly had for the domestic business, and what really led to such a steep sort of impact in the domestic segment that will be useful?

See, domestic actually affected very adversely because of the disturbance in our neighboring country because of that, we could not get the supply of jute. And this Gunny Bales the major domestic loading commodity in Eastern India, and because of the no supply of jute or less supply of jute, the gunny bales traffic was very severely affected. This affected our top line in domestic as well as bottom line. Because traditionally, cargo goes to Eastern India and in return direction, Gunny Bales were stuffed in the containers. But because there were no Gunny Bales, so these containers were coming empty. So bottom line was very badly affected. The second reason was the tiles industry. In Morbi, you must be reading in newspaper, not almost all the tile factories are closed because of there's no supply of gas. So these 2 commodities are big commodities contributing in domestic, and these were the reasons. Now slowly, both the commodities are getting revived. So we are quite positive. Apart from that, now this bulk cement will also gain traction. So that is why I am giving a guidance of 15% domestic, which we are quite optimistic that we will be able to achieve.

The gunny bag issue and the Morbi volumes, are they back to 50% of normal or even below that right now?

Right now, they are below that, but there are indications that very quickly, they will be increasing.

Next question is from the line of Aditya Mongia from Kotak Securities.

I had a couple of questions from my side. First one is on JNPT. Sir, you talked about an 18% to 19% year-end number and eventually 30% model coefficient number. Could you give us a sense of what are low-hanging fruits over here, which can 19% happen and then what needs to happen for 30% to model coefficient to happen and in this is my sense was that the entire movement that goes from road from JLT to other part of the country, 10-odd percent. So just trying to get a sense, which are other routes that you're exploring maybe taking to 30% coefficient.

Actually, this changeover from road to rail will not happen overnight. Once these services start, it would take some time to stabilize. Like right now, I told the rail coefficient in last financial year at JNPT was 15%, 1-5. So I am expecting that in FY '27, this will reach around 19%, 1-9. Maybe it may reach 20%, 21% also. And in 3 years' time, it will stabilize at 30% or 35%, because JNPT is not serving only North India. A lot of traffic is going to Hyderabad area, to Nagpur, that is Central area, Central India and then to Bangalore also, South India. So all these places are also served by JNPT. So -- and all these places are not connected on Western DFC. So Western DFC is connecting North India, there is NCR and is passing through Gujarat. So Nagpur, Hyderabad and Bangalore, they continue to be non-DFC locations for JNPT. So in that, all locations also, we are getting a good business. They will continue to move non-DFC. But the benefits of DFC, and from all these locations, Nagpur, Hyderabad, Bangalore, we cannot run double-stack trains to JNPT because it is not in DFC. But for NCR area and Gujarat, we will be able to run double stack. So they will reap the benefits of Western DFC. So that is why I'm saying that in 3 years, rail coefficient will increase to 30%, 35%.

So just to clarify, what you're saying is that or maybe just a clarification here. When you say on the non-DFC routes, Hyderabad, Nagpur so on and so forth, will there be any which was impacted by the commissioning of Western DFC, and what are the reasons why they would start coming on double stack to JNPT versus the?

So these locations like Nagpur, Hyderabad, Bangalore will not be impacted with commissioning of Western DFC because double-stack rains cannot be run from these locations.

Yes. So why could they shift on rail from road over time?

So for these locations also, we are running services and the shift from road to rail is there, but it is gradual shift. And it's not that quantum shift, I should say, that will happen when DFC is commissioned for NCR and -- between NCR and JNPT. But these locations also, there's a gradual shift from road to rail, but not that quick.

Sure. Just a second question from my side. I was intrigued by you suggesting that Indian Railways are on the anvil of talking about or announcing more reforms. Could you give us a sense of which direction are these reforms focused on? I mean, one part is obviously assured traffic and assured rates, but what we on that would be the focus a Indian Railways.

I cannot disclose the details of reforms to you. But in logistics, there are -- I can give you a hint because in logistics, there are only 2 things that the customer wants. First is the transit time. And second thing is, economically, costs should be reasonable. So railway is working on both these issues. That much only I can tell you right now.

Next question is from the line of Achal Lohade from Nuvama.

Am I audible?

Yes, please.

Sir, first question, you've talked about container, the shipping the container investment. So if you could talk a little bit more on that in terms of what are the plans here? What kind of capital allocation or capital investment would be -- would that entail from our end?

See, what capital we have to invest in that, it's a confidential information right now, and it's going to the cabinet. So I cannot disclose that information to you. I can only tell you that we have a 30% stake in that. And it will be a very big shipping line for our country. In our country, it's a pride for us that we will have a container shipping line. Until now we don't have a container shipping line at all. With Make in India getting traction in our country and a lot of exports being generated, so it's high time that we should have a container shipping line where we should have our own ships. We should have our own containers and ports have also been made stakeholders, so we should be a very active part of global supply chains. So this is a welcome move by government of India and Container Corporation with its strength in the interland and inland logistics and Shipping Corporation of India. They are also having 30% stake. They have a good experience in the shipping sector. So both these big companies have joined and apart from there, they have 3 ports JNPT, Chennai Port and Tuticorin port. They're also part and Development Fund. They are also part of this PCSL. So all these relevant players, Government of India have decided that they will be part of our container shipping line. And as I told you already, as per the vision of Honorable Prime Minister, by 2047, this shipping line will be the among the top 10 shipping lines of the world. Only this much I can tell you right now.

No problem, sir. Second question I had, with respect to the margins. So while you have talked about the volume growth guidance, and I presume you're talking about the handling volume or originating volume, sir?

I'm talking about handling volumes.

Okay. So given that volume guidance, what kind of -- how do we look at the margins, especially I mean if you could talk a little bit on that margin front overall? Or if possible, even on segment.

See, you people are very good in number. We cannot match you. So you can very easily do that. All I can tell you is we will maintain the EBITDA level between 24% to 25% as we have been doing until now. In fact, last financial year also, we had an EBITDA of 24.33% in FY '26. FY '25, it was 24.9%. So there was hardly any drop in EBITDA percent despite all these setbacks. So in the coming years also, we will maintain EBITDA between 24% to 25%. We are quite clear on that.

Got it. Sir, just a quick clarification I wanted to check in is in terms of the drop in the segment margin for domestic, if I look at the Q-o-Q drop in terms of the segment EBIT, that is very, very sharp. Is there any one-off, anything you want to call out? I also see, at the same time, there is a significant jump in the other expenses. So you could call out if there are any one-offs here or any expenses which have gone up materially.

As I told also that in domestic, actually, if you have to have good bottom line, then you should have minimum empty running of containers. You should have both side loaded movement. Logistics is sustainable, only if we have loaded movement from both the sides. But because of the setback of not getting the Gunny Bales traffic, we were forced to move empty containers from Eastern India to North India and Western India because we have a lot of business traffic moving from Western India and North India to Eastern India. Return direction, we were getting Gunny Bales, which was loaded from Eastern India to these locations in Central India also. But now because Gunny Bales traffic stopped. So we were forced to run empty containers out from Eastern India back to these places for getting the loading. So because of that empty running, it severely affected our profitability in domestic, and we were not able to build any circuits. Of course, we tried some triangular movements. But most of the cases we had to take out empties from Eastern India, either to North India or to West India, sometimes to Central and South India also. So this affected the profitability of domestic in a very big way in Q4.

Got it. If you could help us with the originating volume, sir, for fourth quarter or full year?

You want for fourth quarter or full year?

Ideally for any of that, that would be very helpful.

Because up to Q3, you may be having. So fourth quarter originating volume was -- EXIM was 54,9273 TEUs and domestic 12,9065 TEUs, total 678,338 TEUs.

Next question is from the line of Jainam Shah from Equirus Capital.

Sir, just one thing over here. If we see our handling volume growth for this year was at around 9.6% in total whereas our originating growth was at around 4.5%. And if we see our revenue growth, it was near 2%. So of course, our double stacking has been increasing, which is leading to a lower realization. Our first one and last one is also increasing, which is, you can say, having a difference between originating and this or even say handling volumes. And now we are guiding, let's say, around 9.5% growth for the handling volume for next year. How do we think it will convert into the originating growth? And probably to the revenue growth? How do we see? Two numbers panning out from the handling volume growth for the FY '27.

See, it is difficult to tell you the exact percentage. But if you are tracking Container Corporation, you may be knowing that broadly, originating is almost 65% or 70% of handling. That is a thumb rule. And as far as earning is concerned, it's a function of 2 things. NTK, in railways, we call net tonne kilometers, it's a function of weight and distance. So originating that is only -- it tells the 1 million tonnes, which are 1 million TEUs, 1 million tonnes, which are moved. So you have to multiply it with the distance, which is the lead. So if originating is increasing by 4.4% whereas earning is increasing by 2.2%, that means our lead has come down. So if we move for less distance, then we get less revenue. So it's a function of weight and distance. So that is the thumb rule for that, yes.

Got it, sir. Sir, on the empty running part that you will be highlighting on the domestic part. What is that for a domestic full year? I guess empty running has went down by around some 4% or 5%. For the quarter, the calculation that I've been doing, empty running has increased from INR 66 crores last year, 4Q FY '25 to around INR 73 crores in 4Q FY '26. That is increase of around let's say, INR 7 crores, INR 8 crores on the top line of around INR 760 crores that we have booked for the domestic segment. That is 1% of the impact that has eventually been there in empty running cost for the domestic part. Our margin used to be between, let's say, 5% to 8% on the margin for the domestic segment. Now we have reported 2%. Even if we add by 1% of the empty running cost, which has increased over last year, then the margin would have been like, say, 1% to 1.5%. So -- where is the gap between, let's say, 5%, 7% that we used to report versus, let's say, 1.5%, even after removing the empty running cost of INR 73 crores that we would have reported in 4Q FY '26.

Now the empty Q4 to Q4 has increased by 11% in domestic for your information. From...

INR 62 crores to INR 73 crores. Yes. Yes. It was around a 1%.

No, it is not INR 63 crore. It is INR 68.9 crores to INR 76.7 crores. So that is 11.3% increase. And second thing is the lead in domestic has also gone down, from 1,321 to 1,309. So both these things have contributed to top line as well as bottom line. So as far as the year figure for full financial year, domestic empty running has come down from INR 291.4 crores to INR 280.35 crores. That is a drop of 3.8%.

Got it, sir, got it. And of course, we have not given any long-term guidance, but we used to say that our hanging would be reaching to, let's say, 10 million TEUs by maybe '29, '30. How this recent crisis would have been impacted the time line of maybe the volumes? Or does this have any impact around CapEx for future years? Or we'll be building on the capacities for the future growth?

See, we are incurring expenditure on CapEx was because we want to be ready. And of course, there is a lot of demand. At present, sometimes we feel that when EXIM and domestic are firing on all cylinders, and a lot of demand is there. We are not able to meet the demand of our customers. And customer will not wait for us. So we should be future ready with our infrastructure, and we don't know when these things will turn, when the demand will increase. And of course, we have some forecasts. But procurement of rakes, procurement of containers, it cannot be done overnight. It will take some time. So we have to be future ready to meet the demand of our customers because we believe in giving them excellent service without sacrificing our margins. That has been the moto of our country. We work on that principle. That is why we go for CapEx of INR 1,000 crores every year. This year also INR 945 crores has been approved by BOT. Definitely, midyear review will be there. And we -- I think we will be touching that figure only that we did in last financial year. So all these infrastructure additions are going to further bring in more volumes to us only.

Next question is from the line of Priyankar from JM Financial.

So my first question is sir, we have recently seen like significant increases in diesel prices, I mean, in the past 1 month. So in that context, I guess, truck freight rates should have also increased meaningfully. So in that case, are we seeing any movement back from road to rail at least on the volumes that you may have seen in the March of -- at least in the months of, let's say, month of May. So that's the first question. And if you can elaborate like -- how do you see the rail model share going ahead?

We are already in the month of May. All I can say is that definitely, we are seeing good volumes in the month of May. March and April were not good for us. So I cannot give you any numbers right now because I don't have with me at present. So definitely, it would have contributed to increase in rail share. But numbers I don't have with me right now.

So ideally, the rail model share should have increased. I mean, with this diesel price increases leading to truck part, would that be a right understanding?

See, it is very premature to say that. But definitely, whatever you are pointing out, it's correct. Definitely, it will be -- more movement will be done by -- with rail only. I fully agree with you.

Sir, just adding on to that. So you said despite you meeting up with your EXIM volume guidance for the full year, what I observe is despite that the top line growth is something like 2.5%. So where is exactly the disconnect? I mean, ideally, one should expect that if you are growing somewhere, let's say, double digits, so ideally the revenue growth should also be coming close to double digits. So what exactly is the issue that we are taking on the revenue.

Incidentally, in EXIM, we have not grown with double digit. Handling growth was 8%. Our netting growth was 5%, and there was a drop in lead also. As I explained earlier, the earnings is a function of we as well as lead. So EXIM there was a drop of lead of 3 kilometers overall in the financial year. That is a big drop. So it contributed to that much not commensurate growth. But definitely, in EXIM, we have done very well. INR 6,000 crores we have crossed for the first time in our history. So this is good growth, and we are expecting more growth in this financial year.

And sir, just squeezing one more question in. One more question. So you used to provide your market share at JNPT, Mundra and Pipavav and also the rail provisions. If you can do that for the quarter.

I can give you for the year. I don't have for the quarter.

Yes, that's also fine. For the...

Yes. JNPT rail commission was 15.12%, and our share was 60%. Mundra, rail coefficient 24.6%. Our share is 35.4%. Pipavav, rail coefficient is 57.5%. Our share is 48.3%.

Next question is from the line of Vivek Setia from HDFC Securities.

Just at the cost of sounding repetitive, I missed the initial part of the call. Could you please provide us with the -- providing the handling volume and originating volume? And if you could repeat the market share and coefficient that you've just repeated for the previous call.

The handling we achieved for the financial year. You want full financial year?

Quarter financials breakdown in terms of EXIM and domestic book.

For Q3, you may be having already. So I would tell you about Q4. Q4 EXIM volumes for EXIM was 1,068,283. Domestic 359,819. Total 1,428,102.

Yes. Also if you could provide the originating.

Originating?

Yes.

Originating EXIM is 549,273. Domestic 129,065, total 678,338.

And the market share point, which you just discussed?

Market share is the JNPT rail coefficient is 15.12%, market share, 60%. Mundra is rail coefficient 24.6%, market share is 35.4%. Pipavav, rail coefficient is 57.5%, market share is 48.3%.

48.3%. Okay.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Aditya Mongia from Kotak Securities.

I just wanted to kind of gauge from you as from a costing perspective, the dependencies on Indian Railways, where do you think there is scope for any kind of rationalization from a CONCOR perspective? For railways to do better, yes?

Can you please repeat the question? I have not heard you properly.

I'm just saying, I think from the perspective of costing in that the Indian Railways, there are a few dependencies over here. Where do you think that if the cost is rationalized, that the demand for the rail product can go up?

Okay. Right now, if you see the point-to-point cost, rail cost is less than road cost. And the increase in total logistics cost is because road is door-to-door and rail, we have to go for first mile, last mile. Normally, first mile, last mile is the component, which increases the transportation if we do through rail. But rail point-to-point is still it is cheaper than road. So we have to minimize first mile, last mile. So we have to have more and more facilities, more and more terminals. We should be near the cargo center. So that first mile last mile comes down and transportation is done through rail. And at present, the challenge being faced by trade is not the high cost that we have to incur on rail transportation. It is the transit time. Transit time is the challenge that trade is facing. So cost wise, I don't think there is not much issue.

Next question is from the line of Koundinya from Jefferies.

Sir, 2, 3 questions from my end. So firstly, on the market share on the EXIM side, last year, you were about 55-odd percent. Where would you be currently? And how would that number correspond -- I mean, at different ports have you lost our gain share anyway? If you can speak a little bit about that.

Yes. I would tell you the entire year. Last year, in EXIM, it was 55.2%. This year, it is 53.9%. Domestic last year was 57.6%. This year, it is 55.9%. Overall, last year, it was 55.9%. This year, it is 54.5%. There is a marginal drop in market share. And basic reasons are we purposely avoided picking up the low-margin businesses on some segments and some market share we lost in domestic due to various reasons. As far as Board market share is concerned, already I have told for all the 3 pools.

Sure, sir. Sir, my second question is, I mean, with respect to the empty running for the quarter gone by that is the March '26 quarter, your domestic empty running costs went up by about 6% Y-o-Y, if I understood it correctly, which is similar to the Y-o-Y growth in new domestic constating volumes. So therefore, I mean while there is a sharp drop in margin. I understand you spoke about empty running and all that you do gunny bags, but then empty running cost on a Y-o-Y basis is pretty similar to your cargo volume growth. Therefore, on a per TEU basis, I mean, are there any other elements which we are missing or at least, is there a gap in our understanding, if you can help us there, please?

Now the -- if you see the Q4 Y-o-Y, the domestic empty running has increased by 11.3%, not by 5% or 6%. It is 11.3%. Last year, it was INR 68.94 crores. This year, it is INR 76.76 crores. So that is a growth, an increase of 11.3% in domestic. The reason that I was telling you. Because of the Eastern side, we have to move empty containers. And originating volumes in domestic have increased by 1.9%. So -- and then lead has also come down from 1,321 kilometers to 1,309 kilometers. So all these factors have contributed to the numbers in domestic.

Sir, if I may ask one last question. How is the current quarter shaping up? Because with the West Asia crisis and everything, are you seeing higher empty running or lower double stacking? I mean how are the operations impacted? Because we understand Middle East is a key export destination. So how is it impacting the operations now, not just in terms of volumes but also in terms of managing the empty running movement, et cetera?

See now the -- as I told earlier also April month was not very good for us from a business point of view. But from May, business has really picked up quite well. We are seeing good pendencies at ports also, and exports are also picking up. Domestic is also now gradually increasing. So from May onwards, we are seeing some upsurge. So we hope to end the quarter on a positive note.

My question is more specific to the operations rather than just a business because Middle East being a key export destination, are you seeing potentially higher empty running or lower double stacking in the current quarter is what I was trying to understand. Because there were some media articles quoting that. Just trying to confirm it from you.

I don't have the numbers with me right now. So a specific question -- I cannot answer that question. Right now, I don't have the numbers with me for this current quarter.

Next question is from the line of Krishnendu Saha from Quantum AMC.

So just a clarification of a continued with has an auto 2,000 crores. This is kind of leading from the CIG value release so because in the parliament -- is it that you are still making this kind of 50% of the ratio on just help you with that, please?

Sorry, your voice is not clear. I'm not able to understand your question. Can you move away from mic and then tell, because I'm not able to understand.

Can you hear me?

What is the question? What do you want?

Yes. When I look at the press release from PIB, container drive taking shape with the BCL, it talks about an outlay of investment of INR 59,000 crores. So is that and we have to forgo 30% of that? Or just to understand because the first talks about a large number of INR 59,000 crores. So just wanted your thoughts on that. And the second question is on the -- so the second question is a remember...

At the moment, I cannot comment on what is there on press release, and it's a confidential information, how much we have to spend in that JV, it's not possible -- I will not use this forum to comment on that.

Yes. Okay. Fair enough. Just on the -- what is the reason, sir? We have been getting to an agreement with PSA? Isn't that offload automatically and we get it? Or is that like we get the first right of or something like that? Is there anything more benefit to us in that manner? Just trying to understand that business. And just last one, the other expenses have increased lastly as a percentage of revenue. So we just throw some light on that, it will be helpful.

See, actually, the PSA that agreement we have signed, that's a unique agreement because for the first time, the -- we will be bringing domestic containers as well as the Cabotage containers also on that train. So that we have got a special permission from customs. That permission is for everybody. Anybody can use that. So we will be bringing domestic plus EXIM containers from their terminal. And why, reason is that they have a fully compliant DFC yard in JNPT. Huge yard they have constructed from which double-stack rails can be directly run. So this will be domestic or EXIM. Now the other terminals at JNPT are also approaching CONCOR to sign a similar agreement with them. We are evaluating that. And very soon, we may be signing with other players also.

So is it like they have to give you a certain amount of volume or you have to be on time is the agreement -- what agreement says that there has to be some agreement -- so what is -- is there anything -- what is the underlying thing which holds up the agreement, if you can shed some light on that?

See, it's a confidential agreement. I can't share. It's not in public domain, but all I can say is it will bring more business to CONCOR.

And the other expenses, which has increased drastically, could you just this thing? And do you think after DSE comes in full force, we will have expenses increasing on the haulage charges because oil prices have increased everything. We become more competitive with DFC operating come June. So what do you think the holes could be at this level hovering at whatever the number is right now?

I will answer your second part first. And then the first part, I will request my Principal Executive Director of Finance for other charges. As you told, for DFC, haulage charges are same as Indian Railways. There is no difference at all. So if I run train on Indian Railways or run train of DFC, I have to pay the same money. There's no difference at all. But in the double stack, you may be aware that containers, which are moving on upper deck, we have to pay 50% haulage charges. So I will have some savings on that. So I will share a part of that saving with my customers by tinkering on tariffs with -- for containers, which are moving on upper deck. So then my tariff for upper deck will become competitive with road tariff, so I will be able to attract business on upper deck. As far as the question...

No, I get that. I was just trying to understand whether you see an increase in haulage charges. I get the economics of upper and lower deck so on and so forth. But is there -- do you see in the light in the recent happening of all the war, et cetera, et cetera, details, but do you see any increase in haulage charges as a whole for the Indian Railway, from the Indian Railways. That's what I was trying to do that.

Okay. Okay. See, that is actually that I can't comment. That is a decision taken by Indian Railways. But at present, I can tell you there is no such move that Indian Railways is going to increase the haulage charges. And the other charges, Mr. Harish Chandra, our Principal Executive Director, I will request him to answer that question.

In fact, the element of rail freight and other operating expenses, we have shown separately and other expenses normally include the expenses related to maintenance, the legal expenses and the expenses related to security at our terminals. So there has been some increase in our maintenance expenses and the AMCs which are payable for our contract because we have also set up a last year. So the maintenance cost of that has also gone up. So because of these elements, like CSR expenses and maintenance expenses, there is some increase in the other expenses during the year.

So is this INR 120 -- INR 120 crores, is this the run rate we look at for every year? Or is it like this is a 1 quarter phenomenon?

No, this is not a one-off. This will be basically -- this will be a recurring expense. Maintenance is recurring expense.

Why the -- so the expenses were around 3.53 on average, this for this quarter, shot up to 5.3, 5.4. practically 2 percentage more. So just trying to drive that, whether this expenditure will normalize at 3.54, or is it going to be at 5.4, 5.5, right? So that takes out 1.5 percentage of my EBITDA margin so that helps you later.

No, the expense for the year, if you see in the other expenses, it is INR 358 crores.

Yes. That's not the whole year. I'm saying it for the quarter.

Yes. So on an average, you can see the expenses would be around INR 70 crores to INR 80 crores per quarter. INR 80 crores, you can say.

INR 80 crores, INR 90 crores. But this year, it is INR 120 crores.

Ladies and gentlemen, we will take this as the last question for the day. I now hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments.

Yes. All I can assure my shareholders is that the company has, over the years, earned a very good name in all our stakeholders, and we are able to give best service to the customers. And without sacrificing our margins, we have a world-class infrastructure. We are standing on very strong fundamentals, and all ethical working is there in our company. And we have got good contacts, good relationships and with all stakeholders, including various government departments, various customers and other business associates, so they value our company very much. And this confidence has been reposed. Every year, we are getting more and more business. Government is also decided -- government decided to make our company important stakeholder when they decided to constitute Bharat container shipping line that goes a very strong testimonial from the government -- for the good governance that is prevalent in your company. So all I can say is that we will continue to do that, serve the EXIM and domestic trade to the best of our capabilities. And we hope that the coming -- this financial year, will bring much, much, much better results. Thank you very much.

Thank you so much, sir. On behalf of DAM Capital Advisors, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.