Cyient DLM Limited ($CYIENTDLM)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Cyient DLM Limited Q4 FY'26 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Krishna Bodanapu, Non-Executive Chairman, Cyient DLM Limited.

Thank you. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Krishna Bodanapu, Non-Executive Chairman of Cyient DLM Limited. I welcome all of you to our Q4 FY '26 earnings call. Joining me today are our Managing Director and CFO, Mr. Rajendra Velagapudi sorry, Managing Director and CEO, Mr. Rajendra Velagapudi; and our CFO, Mr. R.M. Subramanian. Before we begin, I would like to remind you that certain statements made during this call may be forward-looking in nature and subject to risks and uncertainties. A detailed disclaimer is available in our investor update section posted on our website. I'll start by first sharing my perspective on a few key developments in FY '26 and more importantly, how we are positioned as we step into FY '27. On reflection, FY '26 was a 4 year on a growth perspective, and I think that is a reality that scares us. Having said that, I'm happy to say and that we will talk about it in more detail, that we end the year strongly with a strong Q4 and a strong order book, strong backlog and order book that helps us deliver well into the coming years. Let's start with the order book momentum, which remains a strong anchor for our confidence. Over the course of FY '26, we've witnessed consistent and healthy order intake across our focused industry segments. Each quarter, we had a book-to-bill ratio of greater than 1, which ends up at being 1.5x for the full year. The ability to sustain the strong order book through the book-to-bill ratios reflects not just the demand conditions but also the effectiveness of our customer engagement model, our service offerings and our focus on long-term programs. I'm happy to say that the order intake is the highest -- or the order backlog is the highest that it has ever been, which bodes well for the coming year ahead. Equally important or even say more importantly is the quality of the order book. We are increasingly winning programs that are more complex, more integrated, critical to our customers. Now these engagements come with longer life cycles, greater collaboration, higher barriers to entry, all of this sustains or substantiates the durability of our growth. What does also means the type of programs that we're working on means that we will continue to have better predictability and better profitability, which, as you know, is very important to the sustainability of our business or for that matter, any business. Margins this year at 10-plus percent were very good, and we believe that, that will sustain into the future. A key driver behind this momentum has been our focused effort to support and strengthen the sales organization. Over the past few years -- over the past year, we've hired some very good sales leaders across geographies and industry verticals, and this enhances both our reach and the debt. This has helped us to progress meaningfully from being just a manufacturing partner to bring a value-adding strategic partner. I'll say we continue to hire sales team and good sales leaders, and we continue to see some very good benefit, which will translate into it again, the coming year. Being a good value-add strategic partner is relevant in the segments we're focused on, we're selling is relationship driven. It is technically intensive. And as you know, it comes with long consultation cycles. With a stronger leadership bench in more structured go-to-market approach, we believe now we're putting into place sales team that is well positioned to convert and execute a very, very strong pipeline into FY '26 on top of a good year for order intake and a very strong order backlog that we start the year with. Of course, we've had challenges this year. Obviously, the significant geopolitical uncertainties that have characterized this year with -- initially with the scale with tariffs and with the uncertainty, I would say, with tariffs. And now -- and what continues is the crisis in West Asia -- some of our customers have been directly impacted, and this has led to temporary disruptions in schedules and execution plans in Q4. Of course, there is a stress, and it's hopefully a cyclical stress in the electronic component availability with what's happening in the memory sector. And we end up, given the complexity of our Board, we end up using memory in a lot of our goals. Also, 60-plus percent of our revenue comes from exports. And therefore, the global -- the geopolitics and the global issues have a disproportionate impact on us. Of course, despite these headwinds, we performed strongly. We did well on our delivery commitments. We protect customer confidence, and we responded with agility across supply chain and execution. Another positive we're seeing is the structural shift in the growing traction in the build-to-spec engagements, which are higher-value engagements. While build-to-print or EMS remains an important part of our portfolio, customers are increasingly seeking partners who can engage earlier in the value chain, contributing to specifications, manufacturing decisions, suppliers, parts selections and of course, the entire life cycle management, which includes things like service, et cetera. These wins reflect the trust customers place in our engineering depth, process rigor and governance. On the subject of margins, of course, I'm thrilled with the company's ability to sustain healthy double-digit performance. As you know, this has been our intent and our ambition, and I'm happy to say that this year, we ended with 10-plus percent EBITDA margin across the whole portfolio, including the operations in India and the operations in the U.S. This is the first time that we've ended with a 10% plus EBITDA margin for the entire year, and we believe that we are in a very sustainable situation. Of course, this is not by chance. This is through deliberate actions. We're focused on the right segments. We've invested in operational excellence. And of course, we've maintained discipline in cost and execution. We remain clear that margin sustainability is as important as growth and our objective is not short-term optimization, but building a robust business model that will deliver long-term value for all our stakeholders. I can again confirm that we continue to invest where it is needed, especially on sales, especially on technology, which will all lead to some very good outcomes over the years. As we look ahead, I am particularly engaged by a strong entry into FY '27. The order book, the pipeline maturity early ramps all gives us measured confidence as we go into the new financial year. Of course, there are global uncertainties, but we are quite confident that structurally, we have a very strong business. Obviously, India's growing role in global electronics, increased defense spending, rising electronic content, all bodes very well for Cyient DLM and presents meaningful opportunities. Before I hand over for the business update, I would like to thank our employees for their dedication, our customers and partners for their trust and you are investors for your continued support. Thank you once again, and I will turn it over to Rajendra to talk about the business.

Thank you, Krishna. So good evening to all of you. I'm Rajendra. Just to quickly walk you through some of areas of the achievements in terms of pros. So first, I would like to talk about -- give a concise overview that covers 3 critical areas. One is the current EMS industry outlook and its primary driver demand drivers. Notable highlights and milestones recently achieved by Cyient DLM and our forward-thinking strategic road map, organized around the pillars of strengthen, expand and transfer. So to just begin, let us look at the industry perspective. The global EMS market is poised for robust expansion with projections indicating growth from approximately $650 billion in 2025 to nearly $1.1 trillion by 2033, a solid CAGR of 6%. This trajectory is fueled by a confluence of long-term structural trends. There is the accelerating electronification and digitization across multiple sectors, increasing defense expenditures worldwide, shifting geopolitical landscapes that prompt supply chain cement and localization, the rapid emergence of AI and supporting infrastructure and a marked rise in domestic investments within India, particularly in defense and rail. Geographically, the demand is distributed broadly, APAC leads 40%, followed by North America at 35% and Europe at 25%. Segment wise, consumer and IT remain dominant, trialed by industrial while automotive aerospace and defense, medical and rail are collectively gaining strategic importance as growth drivers. The key takeaway here is that the EMS industry benefits from enduring multiyear demand setting the stage for sustained disciplined growth. Shifting focus to assigned DLM's recent accomplishments, we have made significant strides on multiple fronts. At the integrated electronics manufacturing interconnection event, which was held in the beginning of last quarter, signed DLM recognized by the Global Electronics Association and also achieved top honors in the fiercely contested hand soldering championship, where our participant emerged Victoria's among a field of international competitors. These accolades underscore our dedication to excellence and are a testament to the ongoing investments we make in quality, training and process maturity. On the automotive front, we have successfully completed the International Automotive Task Force audit and secured the letter of confirmation further enhancing our credentials. In addition, we have commenced a series supply for a new automotive product line and initiated series production for a semiconductor mission supply partner. These are not preliminary trials but full scale, repeatable production endeavors, signaling our growing capabilities and reinforcing our entry into more rigorous customer environments. We continued order intake momentum in Q4, as Krishna said, I am pleased to share that we secured an order intake of over $208 million for the year, resulting in a robust book-to-bill ratio of 1.5x. This performance is a clear testimony to our focus of the strategy and execution in our key markets. we witnessed a good traction across major industries, reinforcing the diversification and resilience of our business model. With the continued strengthening of our sales organization, so we are confident that this momentum will further improve as we move into FY '27. So looking ahead over the -- our strategy is structured into 3 phases, as I said earlier, to strengthen, expand and transform. If we look at the strengthen, our immediate focus is on fortifying our core. This involves deepening our presence in key markets, pursuing operational excellence and strengthening our build-to-spec capabilities. Tactically, we are enhancing our go-to-market structures, building cross-functional teams, pursuing large deals and new client logos and investing in automation to support scalable disciplined growth. If you look at the expand section, the next is to target select growth revenues, particularly in automotive, Indian defense and AI infrastructure manufacturing. We are also aiming for vertical integration across cable, sheet metal and missioning broadening both our market reach and manufacturing depth while capitalizing on global industry tailwinds. If we look on the transform, finally, we aim to move beyond conventional EMS models by developing products and flat forms, investing in product organization capabilities and forging technology, partnerships and MOUs. This phase is designed to unlock new long-term strategic opportunities and additional growth levers. So in summary, the EMS industry continues to present a promising landscape bolstered by mega trends like digitization, increase in defense spending, supply chain localization and the rise of a AI infrastructure. Cyient DLM recent milestones, particularly in automotive and semiconductor underscore our momentum, our phase road map, strengthen expand, transform, charge a clear and disciplined path for growth through the years. And looking ahead for FY '27, the company remains focused around operational excellence, margin improvement and deepening strategic customer relationships supported by a strong pipeline and order book, and we continue investments in capabilities and go-to-market. So thank you for your continued support and interest in Cyient DLM. Now I hand it over to RMS, our CFO.

Thank you, Rajendra. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. This is RM Subramanian. Let me take you through the financial performance of Q4 FY '26 and the full year performance. For the quarter, revenue stood at INR 3,691 million, reflecting a strong growth over previous quarters in the financial year. On a year-on-year basis, it is down by 13.8%, mainly due to the large order closure in Q4 FY '25. We also observed some moderation in customer uptake due to estate crisis. and project execution phasing getting extended. That said, from a demand perspective, we are encouraged by the underlying pipeline and the order inflows. Coming to the order book. We ended the quarter with a strong order book of INR 24,166 million with INR 672 million net addition during the quarter. The order book reached its highest level in last 10 quarters. It is really encouraging as it gives us a good visibility moving into FY '27. EBITDA for the quarter is INR 431 million, down 24.9% year-on-year, and the PAT came in at INR 224 million, a 27.6% decline year-on-year, while the year-on-year comparison reflects the impact of lower revenues and operating leverage, it is important to highlight the sequential strength and profitability is improving. At a margin level, EBITDA improved 11.1% and PAT stood at 6.1%. Both EBITDA and PAT margin are the highest compared to all previous quarters of the year, reflecting focused execution on operating efficiency and margin accretive business mix in Q4. Let me now walk you through our full year financial performance. For FY '26, revenue stood at INR 12,615 million, representing a 17% year-on-year decline. The softness is caused by the enlarged A&D order completion during FY '25. This is also a year of moderated demand across certain customer programs and deliberate execution facing. However, the business demonstrated strong operating resilience through the year despite the softness. On the profitability front, normalized EBITDA after factoring one-offs or wage code impact and M&A expenses stood at INR 1,302 million, a decline of 10.2% year-on-year, while reported EBITDA stood at INR 1,268 million, down 12.6% year-on-year. Importantly, margins remained stable at double digits, driven by an improved business mix and tight control over operating expenses. At the bottom line, normalized PAT after factoring earnout impacts for FY '26 was INR 563 million, down 24% year-on-year, largely reflecting operating deleverage and normalization adjustments. However, reported PAT increased by 7.7% year-on-year to INR 733 million with margin improving to 5.8%, up 133 basis points year-on-year. Coming to the order book. We've closed the FY '26 with a record order book of INR 24,166 million, which is INR [indiscernible] million higher than last year. This is the highest order book levels for us since 2.5 years. This is providing us a strong revenue visibility and the confidence as we enter into FY '27. In summary, FY '26 was a year of subdued revenue. However, we sustained double-digit EBITDA margins and built a record high order book. This factor underline the robustness of our operating model and position us well for a gradual recovery and profitable growth in the coming years. This slide captures the quarterly trend of revenue and margins. Starting with revenue, we saw a steady ramp-up through FY '25, peaking in Q3 FY '25, followed by a moderation in FY '26. Despite the softer environment in FY '26, the quarterly trend shows a sequential improvement towards Q4 FY '26, reflecting a gradual normalization in customer schedules and improved execution momentum as the year progressed. The margin follows a similar trend as revenues with gradual improvement sequentially in FY '26. While EBITDA moderated in early part of FY '26, we saw a strong recovery in Q4 FY '26. Same is the case with PAT as it shows a healthy upward trend. After the start in FY '26 -- softer start in FY '26, profitably improved sequentially, culminating in INR 224 million in Q4 FY '26. To summarize, while revenue trends were subdued, both EBITDA and PAT margins show a clear upward trajectory, particularly in the second half of the year. This reinforces our confidence in the structural strength of the business and our ability to convert growth into profitable outcomes as volumes recover. The next slide highlights the quarterly trend of our non-P&L metrics. Starting with the order book. I mentioned earlier that we see a clearer and consistent upward trajectory. The order backlog has increased from about INR 21.3 billion in Q1 FY '25 to INR 24.2 billion by Q4 FY '26, making it as the strongest level the company has seen for quite some time. Inventory days remained elevated through FY '26, largely driven by advanced stocking for the long-lead components and program ramp-ups. Importantly, we are seeing reduction in Q4, reflecting tighter material planning and improved execution alignment. DSO has improved steadily moving from the low 90s to the mid-70s, driven by stronger collection and billing discipline. DPO on an average, is higher in FY '26 compared to FY '25. During the FY '26, we saw elevated working capital typical of a ramp-up in revenue moderation phase. As we move into Q4 and forward, we are seeing clear signs of normalization, with sharper control on inventory, stable receivables and a healthier cash conversion cycle. We expect to improve it further as we move into FY '27. In terms of revenue side, from an industry perspective, aerospace, industrial and medical continue to be our largest contributors. Defense share is low and having year-on-year decline of 68% due to large order coming to in FY '25. The other segment showed stronger growth, largely aided by B2S business. From a product category standpoint, PCBA remains the largest contributor at around 48% of the revenues, reflecting its continued strength across industry segment. It's also encouraging to see the Boville revenue share going up. Others category recorded strong growth supported B2S and value-added offerings. Geographically, the rest of the world continues to account for over 90% of the revenues driven by strong demand across 4 industries we operate. It is expected to remain same in the near term. Overall, the Q4 mix reflects a balanced portfolio, increasing contribution from strategic programs and strong overseas demand, which positions us well moving forward. The next slide is on financial detailed overview. This slide provides a detailed P&L view for the quarter. As mentioned earlier, revenue is lower year-on-year due to large order completion in FY '25 and moderate uptake from few clients due to vest share prices. However, the quality of the revenue significantly improved along with supply chain efficiencies. As a result, we posted a healthy double-digit margins at 11.7%. Although it is lower by 174 basis points year-on-year, the traction is sustainable and hence, provides more confidence moving into FY '27. With better control in finance charges and benefits from other income, normalized PAT stands at INR 2.4 million, a significant growth sequentially, but declined 27.7% year-on-year due to strong Q4 FY '25. Next slide, revenue for the year is INR 12.6 billion, down 17% year-on-year growth primarily impacted by the compression of a large order in the previous year and delayed ramp-ups in few programs. Material costs are lower year-on-year, mainly due to improved revenue mix. With the revenue contribution from high-margin business increasing, we see this trend sustained. The overall margin in FY '26 have improved within business mix and better supply chain efficiencies. Normalized EBITDA stands at INR 10.3 million, 77 bps higher year-on-year. Reported EBITDA margin also improved to 10.1%, up 1 or 3 basis points. At the bottom line, normalized PAT that declined to INR 563 million due to operating leverage and onetime costs during the year. However, reported PAT increased by 7.6% to INR 733 million, with 5.8% margin, up 133 basis points year-on-year. Overall, despite revenue headwinds, FY '26 demonstrate margin resilience, disciplined cost management and improving profitability, positioning us well as revenues recover. The slide is on EBITDA and PAT walk. The slide explains the bridge from our reported to normalized margins. The first one-off relates to M&A evaluation expenses amounting to INR 17.75 million. We incurred the expense to evaluate a deal that did not go through. The second one is the wage impact totaling to INR 16.4 million resulting from the new wage code by government of India. The third item is the reversal of earn-outs from the earlier M&A deals. All these expense above are exceptional in nature and not reflective of normal business. The backlog reflects the tax impact of this adjustment as well. The next slide, in terms of IPO proceeds utilization. As of March 2025, we have fully utilized the IPO proceeds in compliant with objects defined during the IPO. We are glad to report that IPO proceeds are fully utilized and the account stands closed. In summary, FY '26 performance. [indiscernible] This brings to me towards the end of the finance presentation. Before we move to Q&A, let me summarize our performance in 4 key points. Order books remain strong with 4 consecutive quarters of growth in bill-to-book ratio better than 1. Revenue was impacted by FY '25 large order completion, but we are well positioned for a strong FY '27 back right with strong order book. Margin remained healthy at double digits with further improvement possible with scale, both industry and product mix are diversified and moving in the right direction, supporting the long-term margin expansion. With this, I will turn it to the floor. Thank you for your kind attention, and we can move to Q&A from participants.

[Operator Instructions] We'll take our first question from the line of Vibha Mishra from investor.

Congratulations for the very strong numbers. In respect of margins and very good cash flow and order book and all. But I think, sir, there is a small basis, we see the Y-o-Y revenue I think in the quarter 3 call. we were confident of beating our revenue Y-o-Y as well. So what could be the reason, the U.S. tariff or West Asia War or any other reason for that?

Yes. So I mean, first of all, thanks for that. It is a question which is very important for everyone. I think the challenge and the headwind what we had is 1 is the West Asia War impact. So because of the materials got delayed because usually all materials comes through the European, I mean, West Asia in terms of all the fights and all. So they got delayed. And so we got very late regard the materials for the quarter to finish it. And we also had other headwinds in terms of Israelis where we are working from the other programs, defense programs. We could not get some of the approvals, clearances because of the agreement again because of the West Asia work which is going on there. And added to that, and we also have some of the NPI approvals from our customers. So these are the 3 main reasons where we could not be able to meet our commitment to what we said in the last investor call.

And sir, just to -- I mean it is not in the presentation, how much exposure we have in West Asia in terms of our supply chain or deliveries and going ahead, we expected a very strong FY '27. So how is it going to affect our targets? Or what are the targets that we have set in terms of revenue and margin for FY '27?

FY '27, I think the revenue, I think we are not giving any of the guidance right now on the revenue side, but we definitely -- I mean whatever FY '26 year has gone by. So that is a year which was not a good year for us. I think now FY '27, we will be starting seeing the growth, year-over-year growth, we'll be seeing it in all the quarters, 4 quarters which is very strong. I think by looking at the order backlog, what we have and also the pipeline which we have currently, so it's just a strong reason for us to look for higher growth.

Vaibhav. I request you to join back the queue, please as your participants waiting for their turn. Next question is from the line of Sameet Sinha from Macquarie.

Yes. Thank you very much. I have a couple of questions. So obviously, very strong order book growth that sounds promising but it's not converting into revenue, and I can understand the reasons you've provided. But can you give us some sense of how do you define order book and backlog? And has that definition stayed consistent over the last few quarters.

So when we say order book, so those were the purchase orders, which we got from our customers. Okay. only that we will take it where we can take material actions. That's where we will consider as the order book. we won't take anything which is TCV and all those, we won't take it as a part of our order book. Order book is very clearly, it is purchase orders, which are available with us, executable in the financial year or beyond the financial year. So it is a total out book what we have. But for the year FY '27, order book is very, very strong and solid right now. And that's what in terms of order book. Order intake is, I think, as we said, it's only again, again, the POs what we get from our customers, that only we'll take it as an order intake. It is not anything about this is a full TCV up for 5 years. So we'll get around $40 million. So that we won't take as a part of our order intake.

Yes. I was 1 question. I think in your slide deck, you had mentioned you're still looking for acquisitions but IPO proceeds that you've used up about 100%. Any thoughts on what structure are you thinking about as you look to make acquisitions?

RMS, let me take that, okay. we continue to look for both organic inorganic growth. And as signed DNA, which is we continue to look at opportunities on, we will look at both from a product perspective in terms of what we don't have and geographically, okay. And this is our, in terms of the playbook of what we look for. Based on what comes in the market we will continue to evaluate it. And depending on the fitment, we will look at it, okay. We looked at some time in the last quarter, but did not go through. but we continue to look for opportunistically. And as long as it fits in our portfolio in terms of growth geographically or product-wise where we don't have that expectation, we will look for that, okay? So it depends on opportunities.

Got it. One final question. In terms of -- you identified some new product areas. You guys spoke about semiconductors. You spoke about AI. It seems like you're getting into more sort of critical product segments. Can you spend a minute talking about what products are you contemplating building there and gives a sense of when we should start to see the results of those new forays?

I mean, particularly on the equipment manufacturing for semiconductor equipment manufacturing -- so we are doing a lot of the power boxes for the customers. And a lot of those products which goes into the PCBAs, wire harness and the complete integration of those mission, the subassemblies, which goes into this. That is where I think we are focusing today. And we are seeing a lot of traction from existing customer and also from the new customers in semicon area. Okay. So that's what -- and again, on the AI side, as I said, we are expanding. That's where I said we are now focusing more on those areas. So probably we'll explore more on that and probably come back in the next quarter, if you have some update on that.

We'll take our next question from the line of Disha from Sapphire Capital.

So sir, you mentioned that some of our revenue was impacted due to the West Asia war. Will it be possible for you to quantify the amount that was deferred. And I believe that's the reason our inventory has gone up, because the shipments didn't go through?

Yes, exactly. So we have already planned for that. That's what the revenue which we have missed there and that is where i think the inventory, which has gone up the TAO and the absolute value of inventory has gone up. That is one of the reason because of the West Asia yes.

So can you quantify the amount of revenue that we lost out due to this? Would it be possible?

No. I think as I said, there are basically 3 areas where we have just impact our Q4 revenues. So I think we don't have -- I mean, yes, we have the numbers probably, I think we -- it is...

Maybe I can get in here. We don't want to get into exact quantification of this stuff. But if you look at it, some of them are postponed in terms of pushing to the next quarter, et cetera. But what we can broadly say these are the reasons why there's been a gap between in terms of what we expected and what happens. But overall, the way we're ending this quarter is built on order book and what we have on hand gives us a confidence that we should continue to grow quarter-on-quarter. And sir, any color on the order pipeline that we have? And what sort of inflows will we expect for service I mean, so we are looking at order book. I mean the book-to-bill ratio is better than one. As we said, we will be focusing on that. I think we are very, very confident by looking at the current order pipeline, what we have. So we will be working towards that. And probably you'll be seeing those order intakes 3 quarters, you'll be seeing a push to things going forward, okay? Yes. So that's what I think probably -- I can see an order intake at yet.

Just to maybe 1 point to add to what Rajendra said, this is not from an order intake, it's broadly in the direction of what we want from a sector perspective, the non-A&D segment is growing and that's the direction we want to go on. And there are some focused new areas of what Rajendra talked about. India has a strengthening of that aspect. So overall, from directionally, we are happy with the way the order book is shaping up. and that gives the confidence for going forward.

All right. All right. And sir, what was the contribution from the BTS segment this quarter?

We're not getting into the specifics of section-wise. I think B2S is a long-term play. Last year, we did not have -- this is the first year we are having it for the first year has done well, and this will -- in terms of application to series order and volume production, it will have a couple of years down the line as a variant will come up. But overall, we are very happy with the way the performance has come up. Is better than our expectations. But we should give that division a little more time in terms of what to do. But otherwise, it continues to be a profitable division.

And we so this margin of 10% to 11%, we sort of expect that to sustain, right, going ahead?

Yes. Basically, on the margin front, let me try and answer it if you look at it, our revenues would have been softer, but we've been able to consistently maintain the margin. It's because based on the quality of the revenue and the order book, what we have since the current order book continues to remain strong and we are happy about it we can say that we are confident of sustaining it. And if we have the top-up in terms of the growth, the operating leverage impact will start kicking in, and we can have something on top of this. So that's what we are confident about in terms of sustaining and performing better as the volume grows.

And so given the strong order book that we have, can we expect some more like 25% to 50% sort of growth for FY '27, would that be a fair assumption?

On revenue guidance, we're clear that we will not be giving any guidance on that. But having said that part, what I can say is Q4 was a good quarter in terms of the growth Q-on-Q and also the order book and the visibility that we had gives us the confidence that it will be going to be stronger, which will make probably everybody happy. And I don't want to be getting into the numbers, and let's leave it at that.

Next question is from the line of Aditya Pal from MSA Capital Partners.

Sir, I had 2 questions on Altek. And then on the investments that we made on our sales team. So let me start with Altek and then on investment that we made on sales them. So let me start with Altek, Altek historically operate on a much shorter book and ship cycle compared to the 18-, 24-month gestation that we usually see in our stand-alone base? So how do you see this impacting our projected 27 consolidated revenue? Because there's enough and more cross-sell synergies, so just if you can highlight between the growth that we are seeing in standalone vis-a-vis Altek.

Yes. I mean, so I'll take, I think, as you rightly said, Amit, we usually get it order intake in the same year. Most of the things getting converted in that year, almost 50%, I can say get converted. I think we are seeing a good -- I mean we also have a good order backlog right now available. And we also see a lot of pipeline from the existing customers. And also to add to you, I think we also added one of the new customers, synergy customer form Cyient DLM standalone side. Now they also just started working with Altek. We got the first PO there in the last quarter. And we're seeing more of those tractions happening from the synergy coming in. And with the order book, which we have, plus the pipeline which we have, we are very confident that we'll be seeing the growth in Altek business in FY '27.

Understood. So the growth rate is not the growth rate that we're seeing in our order book is not explicitly reliant on specific cost synergies. If it happens, it's an addition. Correct?

Correct. Correct. Correct. Exactly, yes.

And on the point that you highlighted in your introduction that we've investment -- you've invested in our sales team. So when I look at the stand-alone EBITDA margins vis-a-vis the difference between the consol and stand-alone, the margins, EBITDA margins have gone down in Q4, specifically. This is purely because of our investments that we made in Altek employee expenses. Correct?

Yes. Let me answer this question. In terms of the average EBITDA margin between India and U.S. business, U.S. business is going to be lower, and that's something which is expected because U.S. manufacturing will have a lower EBITDA margin. So this is in terms of expected lines. That's point number one. Point number two, overall Altek and the growth in Altek continues to have a bit of an overhang with respect to the tariff overhang still continues to be there. There's no clarity in terms of how -- which direction is going, which I think we are aware of, okay? Overall, the synergy benefits in the cross-pollination, -- there's a little bit of a slowness in it. hopefully, things should settle down and then it will lead to it. And more -- once we have a cross-pollination where Indian customers start going through Altek and the U.S. customers start moving to India, we will see those benefits. Those benefits just started on a trial basis happening, but not in a full fledge. But when that happens, we will have an uptick in the margin. But as of now, none of them is factored in. And as you rightly said, the margins are lower, but that's unexpected. The more we start moving to India and using Altek as we said in terms of U.S. business, is where the uptick will come in. But that will take some time, and it also depends clearly on the tariff overhang getting cleared, which should happen over the period of time.

Understood. Understood. Just let me squeeze in 1 more question. So the question 1 is on the current investment that we made in employee, how much in the case of how much sales can they generate and what is the intention of the sales team? And then also, if you can just help us understand the specification, right? Because last couple of quarters back, you said that mass manufacturing orders, at least for the new -- for the full new anticlines that we had onboarded will start coming in from FY '27, Q3 or Q4 -- and we would see this -- we would see actually scaling up in FY '28. Is this still on? Or do you see this happening later earlier than expected? If you can just comment on that?

No, I think as you rightly said, that's what is going to happen. We'll be seeing it from uptick in the order intake because of these new people who are on board, and we're also adding a few more people. where we are in the process right now. And with all that, we are definitely seeing more order intake in Q3 and Q4 and beyond. Yes, from these are these new people coming in.

Understood. So -- and also on the build the specification that you had mentioned last quarter that we onboarded 4 new clients in the defense vertical.

Exactly. Absolutely. Yes. Yes, you'll be seeing that -- yes, you are now seeing the previous -- the revenues and also on the order intake for the next year, yes.

So the inflection point will be fag end of FY '27 or more -- or we'll see the visibility more coming in FY '28.

No, it will be on the fag end of FY '27, and also in FY '28, more yes.

Perfect. Perfect. No, this clears a lot of things. wishing you and the team all the very best.

Thank you. Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, in order to ensure that management is able to answer queries from all participants kindly restrict your questions to 2 at a time. You may join back the queue for follow-up questions. We also request participants to keep their questions please. Next question is from the line of Harsh Shah from Pi Square.

I just want to understand a bit more about the dip in margins that we saw this quarter. I think you answered it previously. I wanted to get to know more a bit because we moved out of the aerospace -- sorry, of the defense orders, which shouldn't give us higher margins, but we saw a dip. So can you explain a bit more.

From a margin perspective, what -- I think, as we reported, we continue to sustain the double-digit EBITDA margin, which is our focus on, okay? And in terms of the absolute numbers, okay, obviously, there's been a drop in terms of margins, okay. Moving forward as we move along. And if the product mix remains the same, okay, these margins are sustainable in terms of what we doing.

So like could you just go into the reason for the dip there in the margin in the EBITDA margins?

The EBITDA margins in terms of overall, if we look at it, it's actually improved in terms.

I'm talking about this quarter to be specific. So we saw a dip.

Yes. That's more reflected on the revenue drop and the operating deleverage impact because the fixed cost continues to remain the same. That's the impact of the total .

But shouldn't we have seen better margins from not taking up the orders from the defense space? Isn't that the reason that we moved out of the space in the first place?

That's what I said as the percentage -- as an absolute level it has come down and at a percentage level, it's improved or maintained. And that's what I explained, which is because of the revenue degrowth and operating deleverage impact.

Next question is from the line of Shashank Jha from SB Capital.

Yes, sir, I have 1 question, which is regarding the order book. So when you say to book-to-bill order of 1.5, when the order book contains like INR 400 crores that we are receiving, it means that we can do INR 1,600 crore plus of revenue in FY '27. Can you confirm on that?

No, no. I think hard of a quarter is in the executable order book in this financial year. And then I think as I said earlier, the order book quarter we have is probably 18 months to 22 months, 24 months range right? So not that everything can be happening only in 1 financial year.

Sir, can you give a number like, some numbers?

That's what I said -- we are not giving any guidance right now on that, in terms of how much of the order intake will be converted as a revenue in FY '27? So we are not giving that guidance, but probably you'll be seeing that in the next quarter itself, starting from next quarter itselt, we'll be seeing that growth.

Okay. And second thing is that like order book capital we say, so can you give me what -- how big is the pipeline from number, conservative also will be fine?

I mean -- are you talking about the sales pipeline, what we have?

Yes, yes. out of the pipeline that we are negotiating right now, are we at for the next 1 year?

I think we have a very good order pipeline right now, as I said, it is close to $0.5 billion order pipeline, which we have today. the sales pipeline where the teams are working out to make those things as an order intake. So that's where I think the focus is going to be in the FY '27 order intake targets, which we are driving it internally.

Shashank, I request you to join back the queue, please as other participants are waiting for their turn. Next question is from the line of Vipraw Srivastava from Philip Capital.

Sir, quickly, 1 line item on the balance sheet, which is contract assets. Can you please explain what is that?

Contract asset is unbilled revenue, which we have, okay, that's more from the B2S thing Yes.

Okay. Fair enough, sir. And sir, from a working capital perspective, what kind of targets you have for the exchange? Or do we see further improvement from here on? Or do you expect to maintain the current level?

On net producing capital, which we talked about is slightly elevated. So we definitely see possibilities for improvement, and we're going to continue to work on it, okay? Our target is to reach about 120 in terms of the number of days, but we have some distance to go. Maintaining what we call a profitable efficient operations and growing is always a challenge, but we will continue do it and we continue to work on improving it, okay? It will take a couple of years, but that's a work in progress.

And the last question from my end. From an Altek perspective, the company has mainly routine companies in clinal at in new geographies or we continue to be limited to Europe and Middle East.

Can you repeat the question, please?

Can you use the handset mode, please.

I want also from an aerospace perspective, can we currently are plants in Middle East and Europe. And mainly the file and sales and all these companies -- do we have plans to switch to other clients also or we plan to increase our wallet share in these clients?

Therefore, I think earlier as mentioning that we'll be also focusing more on the non-A&D side of the business, so which we'll be seeing that -- I think if you look at some of the order pipeline, what we have. So that's where I think with us a strong skin to us, saying that, yes, we see more of the non-A&D Along with the A&D growth, whatever we have the pipeline will be continuing. But yes, not that because of whatever is happening today in West Asia, in other areas, but we see a traction definitely in the non-A&D, and we'll continue that along with the A&D growth.

Next question is from the line of Ritwik Agrawal from 3P Investment Manager. Please go ahead. Can you use the handset mode, please? Yes, it better. Yes, please go ahead.

Yes. So I wanted to ask 2 questions. One was on the direction on margin in the future years. And on the areas of growth, where do we see growth coming from in terms of revenue and order book? And secondly, we have had some days in the quarter. Like during the War, are we seeing any positive commentary from the real defense customers?

I'll take the questions on the margins. Okay. So in terms of the margins, we are confident of sustaining the margins moving forward. This is based on the order book in terms of customers or what we have -- with the current mix, we can continue to maintain. And -- with the growing volumes, there will be a couple of basis points improvements with respect to the operating leverage impact, which is on the positive side, okay? That's what we will continue to aim for the next year. In terms of the business growth.

Yes, I mean, as I said, I think -- I mean, if I can answer your last point in terms of the defense and Israeli business side, I think we'll be seeing a lot of traction there, which we are seeing it right now. There are a lot of RFPs in the pipeline, which we are working on currently. And we'll be seeing more of the order pipeline and the order intake coming from the Israeli customers. And we see the growth not only from that 1 area, even from existing customers both in aerospace, non-aerospace and also the new verticals, help vehicles where we are focusing. We are seeing a lot of traction in that one. So we'll be seeing more of the revenue growth coming from those areas, too.

Our next question is from the line of Deepak from Unifi Capital.

Sir, firstly, if you can cover the geopolitical aspect, see U.S. is a big portion of our revenues. So with the reduced tariffs, have you seen any like any pickup in the demand and order book, that is one. And also the West Asia crisis -- how much -- I didn't understand how much proportion of our revenue is coming from the Israeli client. And I'm assuming he would have not given you the delivery time line yet because nobody knows when the War ends. But on the freight aspect, are you able to read out from other lines or the modes of transport that you're getting the supplies for your raw material that you elaborated. So on these 2 fronts, I wanted your clarity.

Okay. So yes, sure, definitely. But on the tariff side, yes, there is slightly, I mean came -- there was some disparity, but still the cloud has not gone away, correct? I think so we still don't know. But the customers are still waiting. We are seeing some opportunities coming right now, asking us for submission of the courts, but it was not what we were having in the past. But I think probably it will just clear that cloud in probably the next 1 quarter or so once we get a full clarity from the ES tariffs, okay? But others, yes. But to your question, yes, we are seeing the new opportunities coming in right now. And on the second 1 on the West Asia, it is not that it is only from 1 region there, where we not able to make the revenue, it is mainly the supply chain where we are getting it through the cargo. I think all that cargo comes either from Dubai or Doha, so that's where I think we had a lot of challenges in getting the materials. It is not that our final goods are only for the customers there in the UAE region. So it is not for that. It is basically for all the customers where we have got impacted because of not getting the materials on time.

And on this aspect, are you able to fix this issue? Has there been any solution to it that you found, which gives you a good visibility going forward? And yes, you can answer this. Then I have another question.

Yes. I think, Kate, we have taken in actions wherever we see the impact now. I think that share our inventory also has gone up because of the materials where we have some partial materials and we are working out to ensure that we get the materials. And also as Krishna said, there are also some challenges in terms of the lead times gone up for the memories, right? So those are the things where we had some impact of inventories. And we are. Now if you ask me some of the actions, we have already ordered the materials for a long -- for the anti FY '27, particularly for the critical items where there are long lead items, we already placed the orders. So we are ensuring growth that way, at least it will ensure us that we will meet our commitments for FY '27.

Understood. So 1 more question.

I request you to join back the queue, please, as a participant meeting for the term. Next question is from the line of Praveen Sahay from PL Capital.

Sir, my question related to the order book is first 1 is either any order from the associated companies of a sign you have -- and how is the mix of geography in your order book? Because highlighting the delay or the Israel Defense orders these which has impacted your revenue. So is these orders also in the near term expected to get a delay in execution?

So I think your initial question, so we don't have any intercompany orders -- it is all from the customer orders, whatever we have today with us. Our order books are from our customers, not from any intercompany. Okay? And second thing is, yes, I think in terms of about second question. Sorry, what is the other 1 second question?

RM delay which has affected your revenue? And the second defense orders. So you have an order book such kind of order books you have already. So in the near term, we may see execution challenges of your order book because of a these?

Yes, there now what happened, whatever something whatever revenue we missed in Q4, moved into the Q1, some of the revenue has come into the Q1. correct where we will be working. So that way, you'll be seeing some of the right shift and probably once the issues get settled down, probably, I think everything will come Online, on track.

And last question on the margin. That's gross margin. So your gross margin, if I look at on the sequential basis, there is a contraction and that's definitely because of memory or the electronics RM ability and all -- so how you are seeing this gross margin movement in the coming quarters or even '27, considering such kind of challenges to continue.

So let me take this question. Gross margin, it's not seen a huge moment. A couple of basis points moment has happened. It's a reflection of product mix in terms of what we manufacture quarter-on-quarter. It's not going to be uniform right through. That's point number one. And point number two, there are also near-term factors of what the supply chain and the disruption and a few things like that. So it's a combination of both. Hopefully, our target in the long run is to maintain the EBITDA at the double-digit level and in terms of what we are doing, okay? That's what we do. There will be a bit of volatility between all of this for the reasons I said. But hopefully, we'll be able to -- we have been able to manage and sustain the margin, and that's what we will aim to do in the long run.

All the best.

Next question is from the line of Kiran from Table Tree Capital.

Sir, 2-part question. One, other expenses have significantly grown this year, even with this quarter despite the year-on-year despite the significant drop in revenue, our other expenses have gone from INR 29 crores to INR 34 crores. Q3 was the same. So, and this is obviously disturbing EBITDA margins quite significantly. So what account or these other expense increases despite severe degrowth in revenue?

Yes. The -- in terms of other expenses, what you are seeing is a mix of both U.S. and India operations all put together, what you're seeing that effect -- and moving forward, once we see the revenue growth, okay, these are the expenses in terms of we'll have the operating leverage effect of it's going to be broadly fixed -- so that's how an analyte in terms of what we do with that part.

Sorry, sir, is not here at all. I mean, your voice was here, but your RF is not clear.

What I'm saying is the other expenses is a mix of both the India and U.S. operations put together, okay? And there are -- as we move forward and when the volume picks up, this item specifically will have in terms of the fixes in HS, you now the operating leverage impact. But what you're seeing is the volume as a percentage has gone up. Hopefully, as we move forward, this will be under control.

Got it. Got it. Second question is, in Q3, I guess, about 25% year-on-year growth next year in FY '27. So in rough numbers, again, I'm not looking for exact numbers, we'll end up at around INR 1600 crore revenue next year, if you do a 25% growth roughly. And our remaining order book will be 800 and year-on-year, we'll add like quarter-on-quarter 500, so 2,000. So are we really -- I mean, despite all of the competition increasing their order books at 40% and a similar space, right? defense, Aerospace, industrial, medical, quite a few competitors are there. There seems to be some structural -- is there a structural issue? Why you are not able to grow Altek acquisition didn't go according to plan when I say because you reverse the earn-outs, right? So that tells that it does not in expectations. -- we're not growing our order book by 35%, 40% like rest of the company who cater to industrial, medical, aerospace and defense, I'm not an confident consumer. -- right? Is there anything structural that we have seen a problem within the organization? Or is there some industry issue? Or is it a West Asia exposure issue? Just not clear around the strategy of what we are saying. I mean the similar numbers, EBITDA, double-digit EBITDA margin, all that is taken, but it's simply something missing in the entire vigorish we, as investors are not able to understand.

So -- very good question from your side, so we appreciate that. so if you can look at it, the investments, what we have just made in terms of our team sales teams. So we just started. I think we have a few people on board. As I said, we are still getting some more people in this quarter. So I think those are the things which probably gives us a good order intake and also the new pipelines coming up to us. So there is no structural challenges, anything in organization, because we are running the business in that a year. So we have not seen any of those challenges. So it is predominantly having the right people there on the ground I mean, so that we can get the new orders and go to the new customers and get them. So I think as we said about the growth percentages, I think we'll be within the ballpark range here for the next financial year for FY '27, and we are very confident on that front.

Just to add to what Rajendra said, I think we did have a challenge in order intake in FY '25, and that's why we had to make some changes in the organization that has translated to the order increase in FY '26. If you look at our order intake increase. I mean you mentioned competition at 35%, 40%. We are also at that percentage between FY '25 and '26. So yes, I mean, extrapolating that, yes, we did have a problem in '25 in order intake, which translated to obviously the revenue that you're seeing in '26. But the fact that we are at competition or even I would argue higher than competition in '26 should translate or will translate, sorry, into a very strong FY '27.

Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take that as a last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Krishna Bodanapu for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

Thank you very much, and thanks, everybody, for joining today for this investor call. Obviously, we've talked about a lot, but I'll just say thank you for the very insightful questions and thank you for also giving us some food for thought on where we should be looking at and what we should consider. Like I said, it was a good start to the year given that we're coming off a very, very strong order book. So I'm confident that we will have a strong FY '27. Thank you for your support, and we'll again speak next quarter.

Thank you. On behalf of Client DLM Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.