Dassault Systèmes SE (DSY) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome, everybody here to our Capital Markets Day 2023, specially thanks for all of you to come here to our Campus in Paris. I also want to welcome everybody who is joining us via webcast. I was very impressed when I walked in here to see so many of you highly engaged to experience what Dassault Systmes is all about to look at our products and our demos. So very good use of your time to spend them when you're here with our experts and our products. And I also wanted to thank you for those of you who joined our dinner last night because I think it was a great experience for us together and also always good fun to talk to you. So we have a rich program prepared. Pascal gave you a little insight into it yesterday evening. Of course, we start with our Chairman and CEO, Bernard Charles, to talk about the unique legacy that -- what we stand for as Dassault Systmes and also give you the framework of what to expect for the next 20 years in our 2040 ambition. And as well, he will also touch on some governance topics. And then we'll have Pascal Daloz, our Deputy CEO, who will then take it from there to further detail the 2040 ambition and talk about what to expect and what it will be to unlock the full potential of virtual twins experiences and AI in the years to come and how it will also impact our addressable market. Then it will be my turn to share with you the insights into our next 5-year financial plan and into our business model. And from there, we will then be done about 1 hour and 15 minutes. We will have a 15-minute break, and we'll come back for a Q&A and then we will conclude the session at 4 p.m. So with this, I would like to welcome our CEO and Chairman, Bernard Charles. Thank you.

Thank you, Rouven. Thank you, Rouven, and welcome to all of you. So it's great to have you on board with us, Rouven. I think it's an outstanding team coming together. In the next minutes, I would like to share with you a few remarks -- to really have you looking at Dassault Systmes with new eyes. First, it's a great pleasure, of course, to have you here for the Capital Markets Day. Probably my last 1 as CEO because you should also listen that Pascal as the newly announced CEO for January 1, 2024. And our goal for the years to come is to expand our leadership, enable resilience on really sustainability for our customers to achieve really what is so needed now a more sustainable economy, a more sustainable world. You remember our communication idea. It takes a special kind of compass to understand the past and navigate the future. I think we have with the experience platform done something which is quite significant. And it really expresses the transformative power of virtual twin experience that we have proved can work. I think I would like you to look at this year to the year 2023 for Dassault Systmes. In some way, as a similar year to the 1 we had when we did the IPO at first in 1996 for Dassault Systmes. Why so? Because we have repositioned the company in the last 3 years, we have formulated a very clear ambition with crisp strategy. The company is led by an ambitious new generation of leaders on the team that Charles Edelstenne, the founder and myself as well as Teba for so many years, that we formed to develop this start-up to become a global leader is really now replicated with Pascal Daloz, Rouven Bergmann here and I think on myself, of course. So I've been the CEO for many years, almost several years. And Pascal, as you know, is already acting truly in that function today to prepare what is going to reveal to you with Rouven, which is our next 5 years. I would like to put that in context. Our ambition is to bring together, and it's very important for Dassault Systmes, science to help serve the industry and have the industry being the solution for a more sustainable world because we love industry. And we have been a game changer for so many years, partnering with clients around the world. We have built a legacy of first time so many times and we have deeply contributed, we think, to the transformation of the world industry at large. And this is really proven with many, many game changer things that happen in the industry. We have enabled designed to move out from drawings and become 3D master model. We have replaced the physical mockup that was a real limit for managing of complexity with the digital mockup. We have invented the connection between product and processes through the life cycle management. And we have created this digital continuity between design production supply that everyone is talking about those days. With 3DEXPERIENCE, we catalyze the global shift from a product economy to an experienced economy, where basically the economy is evolving toward the measurement of the value of experience versus the value of the product itself. And we believe that the virtual twin experience can be used not only for things as 1 day, the financial time coated Dassault Systmes from shampoo bottle to satellite. We are also applying it now to life science and health care practices to enable precision medicine for the benefit of the passion. This heritage, therefore, is truly with DNA, a launch pad for the future of Dassault Systmes on the Dassault Systmes of the future. And there are 3 things that maybe you should keep in mind. First, the capacity of this company to really imagine the future on play, on invent, on create new type of solution to serve our customers. The second thing that is very special, I think, to Dassault Systmes are not so common. We are very mission-critical for our gigantic customer base. They have invented their new business model, their new offer using our solution, we are a direct factor to the top line. So being the catalyst and enabler for their performance, not only agility, but also inventing the future is an important thing. And the third element is more and more, our customers discover that the cross industry knowledge is becoming a value for them. No doubt that the future of the industry will call for a new approach to chemistry, bioscience in all sectors of the economy. So the legacy is also a gigantic customer base of very loyal customers, very low churn, as we say in our jargon, extremely loyal committed customers. Three -- over 320,000 large companies where you think that Toyota account for 1 or Airbus or Boeing for 1 or 2, in this case, it makes you think about the amazing footprint of Dassault Systmes on which we can build the future. 25 million users, over 10,000 start-ups now are using our solution, the 3DEXPERIENCE platform. 25,000 makers, and this is growing extremely fast every week, 8 million learners per year learning our solutions, 15,000 partners are on the globe. This is if we were doing an IPO today, that would be the core story. Here is what is this company and we're going to talk to you about how we plan to use this as a launch pad and this is the new duty for Pascal and his team in the years to come. So we have always focused not on the market share per se, on the customer share -- on the customer footprint, we have always focused on the value policy. The equation between the size of the contract and the value we create. And there is more we can do probably for that. And we have also created very loyal, fair contractual approach with our clients, which in the software industry is not very common. And we believe it's an important value for the company. So our leading world brands, we have several brands that have now reached the EUR 1 billion size which is not also very common, and we continue to do that, this development for each of them. And the value of this brand approach is it's associated to user communities. One can say that the SOLIDWORKS community, they love SOLIDWORKS. The CATIA community, they love the CATIA power. And this is true for most of the brands we are developing. Some are the beginning. Some are very mature but with a potential of growth. So these are the fundamental DNA of Dassault Systmes. As the experience economy is now converging with the sustainable economy, we have something to play to really use the virtual twin experience to better create the new world we need to create in all sectors of the economy. As the industrial ecosystem of the past century is reshaping, we all know that, and we all noticed that, look at the mobility, for example. Customers are relying on us to redesign the supply chain that will soon become value chain. There will be a new order, a new assembly of those industry ecosystems going forward. Our approach that we reveal with Pascal early 2020, when we said we not only are going to cover 11 industries on 64 segment, but we are connecting them to the sector of the economy is creating a good infrastructure to have better estimation of the potential market. The targeted market and Pascal will share a few insight with you about that. So basically, today, the new Dassault Systmes is focused in 3 sectors of the economy. What human produce are things, we call it manufacturing at large, life science and health care, new therapeutics or medical practices, on infrastructure, energy, the area where we live. By connecting those dots with a consistent platform, we are really creating an environment that will help to optimize things that no 1 else can optimize. And this is creating competitive advantage. If you look at the e-mobility today, the entire ecosystem in the world is evolving. Engine is now the battery, and you see so many things, companies are connected with connected services, the engineering of a car is really the engineering fun experience for mobility, not the engineering only of a vehicle. So the potential ahead is significant from that standpoint. This is why we have the conviction that the virtual world that we create, the digital twin help to extend and improve the real world. And this is really being proven in the showcase we have done in the past recent years. The Dassault Systmes solutions and platform at first becomes an holistic environment. It's a massive content generation engine. You have heard about data economy. Our software produce massive content, probably among the largest in the world. For the time being, this content is sitting on server inside the companies, soon it will be on our cloud. And there is no doubt that this transition to cloud is not an IT topic at all. That's the logistics of it. It's a change -- a game changer environment to create new experiences using and leveraging those virtual twin experience. The second aspect is a consequence of that. You have heard about Software as a Service. We are building new collection of service that Pascal will talk about, which are experienced as a service. If your entire vehicle or plane is on our cloud, we can prepare experience for you to evaluate the material cost volatility online as a service. We call this experience as a service. And many other will be created from there. So the generative aspect of creating new experiences and the way we virtualize the world is really game changer in a big way. For this to work, there are a few conditions. The first thing is, it's not a question of visualization or game like tools. It calls for science. You have to simulate the real behavior of what's happening in the real life. So being a science-based company is a foundation of Dassault Systmes. It's our passion and it's what we do. So science based, it's about creating powerful differentiator. We have the largest scope of science technology inside this group, chemistry with biology, material science, think about it, when you want to change materials and invent new processes for 3D printing, by the way, we can do 3D printing of hot part inside an airplane engine, believe it or not, you have to master the power of multiscale disciplined simulation and science. The second thing with this data being accessible to us, the proof point is what we did with MEDIDATA. Customers in competition share, the value they get is higher than what they would get without sharing on the content. That's going to happen to all sectors of the industry. And our AI engine is elevating this data to knowledge and know-how. Creating an aerospace composite part, it's not a problem of shaping it. It requires a lot of science and generative technology to do it, and I could take many other examples. Finally, we look at cloud in a very different way from what cloud provider. We don't look at it as an IT infrastructure, we look at it as a trusted infrastructure, which are the consequences of what just I shared with you. So we have created an abstraction of how cloud should work in the world in such a way that we can support 3 type of experiences, international experiences going through borders. In that case, the lows are really very different from countries to countries. Sovereign cloud, which is in a space where laws are consistent and dedicated cloud where we have highly sensitive programs such as military program or other very sensitive program. So 3 level of value for which we contract with the proper operators that will fulfill those obligation of trust and security. So our purpose of harmonizing product nature and life is really adopted and is really in action now and has a lot of potential to create more value. So we are the only power -- only platform that can connect the 2 experience and circularity. We can address the entire life cycle and we can, more importantly, attract great people, great skill, who wants to be in jobs where they have a purpose and they know they can have an impact. Very often we are asked, is it difficult to hire? We are having great profile joining us because they love what we do. So I think in the last 3 years, as I said, Pascal and I and the team have been working on where should we be in 2040? For us, 2040 is not far away, think about the 2000 internet bubble is just yesterday, on having a clear understanding about where we want to be on that horizon give us an outstanding framework to organize what you know now as our 5 years plans were put parameters they are going to share with you, which has been published this morning. So there is no more secret except you want probably to know how it's built up, and you will get some elements of it, not probably all of it, but some of it in the next minutes. So the last remark is related to the track record. If I look at now this company from the investor standpoint, it's a beautiful curve that you can see since we did the IPO Charles and Thibault in 1996. I think there were 2 accident, the Internet bubble and recently, maybe some [indiscernible] valorization, I don't know. But I think we can have -- we can see this as a beautiful curve that really parallels the EPS evolution and also is, of course, supported by the people growth on the resources for the company to really do what we have to do. So we know how to create plans where this consistency and the strategy to create our own market, fulfill them has been proven in the past, and I think that might be an interesting perspective to think about where we go for the future based on what is going to be presented here this afternoon. And my last remark is related to the discipline we have since we IPO-ed thanks to our founder, Charles Edelstenne, who is here today. We decided that 1/3 of the benefit of the profit will go to shareholders with dividends and everything else will be reinvested in the company. And we have been consistent on that policy. No surprises. And there is no reason why we'll not do so in the years to come. At the time where we were asked to not distribute dividend because -- and maybe profit was not important. Growth was more important. I think we have proved that we have a different value system, and we think that cash flow is still very important. And we think that being able to have a predictable financial model is a value. So -- the ambition is set the future on the target of the markets we are looking for, for our ambition is well formulated at this point in time. So I think that the last point I would mention that has been a very important point for me is the shareholder structure. It has given us thanks to Charles himself, thanks to the Dassault family. It has been a major, major factor of stability, a major factor to redefine our market, a major factor to take risk, measured risk and really create things that have never been created before. So I believe that -- and I want to send our foundation of the shareholder structure because both the Dassault family, Charles Edelstenne. And now myself, I'm moving on the other side of the table as being the Chairman. I think I have to play my role in a different way. I got a good professor. So I think I know how to do it. And I know also what a CEO needs to really be able to have the proper freedom with this team to build the future in a proper way. I've worked with Pascal for almost 25 years. He was young when he joined us. You basically did a big mistake at the beginning. He went on your side, bunkers and investors. He discovered that maybe that was not his future. It came with me, and he has been in charge of brand strategy, he had been in charge of research. He has been in charge about so many. He became CFO and now CEO and COO and now acting like the CEO of this company. So I have a lot of trust and we 2 work very well together. I think it's also something which is unique in the governance and the transition of any company. So Pascal has also contributed, as you know, to the massive move we did in life science and healthcare, which was probably not expected. And believe me, we are in to stay and be a world player, and we have demonstrated already that we can bring a lot of value. So the last remark is the team. It's a bright team. In redial ambition, I think you got it, and they love to work together. I see so many of our companies, clients where sometimes people are fighting. That's not the case for us. I think there is a very strong solidarity. Well prepared CEO, well-prepared strategy, well-prepared long-term horizon, Pascal joined me to tell us more because you are the right man.

Thank you, Bernard. Thank you so much. It's a strange feeling for me. Why so? Because you remember, when you did the IPO, I was on the opposite side, right?

Yes, I remember. He was interviewing me on Bloomberg.

And by the way, what was the question I asked Bernard was, do you think you can continue to continue to expand and grow the same way, right?

So I said, why you don't join me to answer that question?

That's true. That's true. Thank you. Again, a very special moment for me, and I'm really exciting. So let's start. In the next 15, 20 minutes, what I want to do is come back to many notions or many concepts Bernard shared with you in the introduction and try to go a step further to try to stretch a little bit of how far we can go between now and 2040. Let's start with metamorphosis. You have seen this word, right, appearing, and why we believe metamorphosis is the word to describe what will happen for the society for the next 20 years. I think it's much more deep than a digital transformation. Okay. I think you understand transforming documents to experience is something. But we have to go much further than this. It's more than an energy transition because when you do an energy transition, you start from A to B and to a certain extent, you have a clear idea of where you will land. In the next 20 years, many of the industry we serve, many of the sector of the economy we serve, they have to reinvent themselves. And you need a special kind of compass to navigate the unknown. So that's, I think, what metamorphosis is about. And this will have a deep impact on almost all of our customers. And as Bernard was saying, is on the business model, on the value network, on the type of skills and competence they need to have. So that's the reason why I think it's much more appropriate to speak about metamorphosis than something else. This metamorphosis I think, is -- will happen in all the 3 sectors of the economy we serve, right? And Bernard explained the repositioning we do in '19, '20, early '20, in fact, after the acquisition of MEDIDATA. There is also something interesting with this framework. We believe it's large enough to touch 80% of the economy. And it's large enough to touch the society at large. So these concepts and dispositioning about Dassault Systmes serving the 3 sectors of the economy will stay for the next 20 years. Now let me explain why the metamorphosis is happening in those 3 sectors in the economy, and I will give you, and I will share with you some examples. The first 1 is obviously very well Tesla. All of you, we speak about it. And we are using them to talk to an extent as a way to showcase what the mobility experience is about. But at the same time, the same industry, the same company is transforming the energy sector by becoming the sustainable energy providers. And it's an interesting move because if you think about against the combination of the experience economy and the sustainability at the same time, here you have the proof that the company is doing both at the same time. And if you project yourself, they are not thinking about products, they think again about experiences, ultimately the impact they have and the car, if you want, is the vehicles to make it happen. That's 1 example. I have a second one, which is also very interesting. If you look at the lifestyle space at large, and as you know, we have many, many customers also in this space. More and more, they are moving from the lifestyle to the health care. Why so? Because many of their products are either used to augment the visions to correct you here, to incorporate certain embedded sensor, right, in your closing in order to measure and record your personal health. So this is also game changing. And again, you have some examples behind me. What are the consequence of this? I remember you challenging me a few years ago about what are you doing in this sector. No 1 -- not 1 single of you could have believed that the large footprint we have established in the auto sector could become at some point of time the entry point into this sector. Another takeaway. When we bought Centric PLM and as you know, they have established a massive footprint in the consumer goods lifestyle products. None of you could imagine that the nice complement could be MEDIDATA at some point of time, right? That's what metamorphosis is about. So to make this happen, you need something, you need a virtual environment because you have to navigate the unknown, you have to navigate this virtual space. And I think the growing adoption of the virtual twin experience is really becoming mission-critical for our customers. As you say, Bernard to address the different experiences and reimaging their portfolio for sustainability. And this concept goes far beyond the metaverse, far beyond. And we were joking about it when Meta is advertising certain things. In fact, we did them -- most of them, if not a decade ago. And why we can claim this because for the last 40 years, our customers have created a massive set of content, a massive one. As you say, maybe it's -- the content is prisoner of their system right now. But with the cloud, we'll be able to reveal the full potential of what they do. And our platform, the 3DEXPERIENCE platform is really the 1 connecting all those virtual twins to create the virtual universities. That's the reason why this Metaverse concept is an interesting one, but it's already happening. So the takeaway of this is this virtual twin you see and you have some example are becoming mainstream of mainstream. It means it's a virtual twin for everything, not only the products, could be life, could be infrastructure, cities, whatever. For everyone, not only the professional, but also the citizen, the patients, the consumer and not -- and it could be accessible from everywhere. That's a major shift. The takeaway of this is what. As a consequence, I think we can envision to reposition the company along this way. Shifting from if you want the end solutions to the end results. And you can see here on the screen, you have the virtual twin of a car. And you can navigate, as Bernard was saying, according to the different scales, gathering all the different disciplines and creates this virtual experience concept we are talking about. And we are unique to make it happen for 2 reasons. One is because we have the scientific base, and it's very unique because at the scale we have been able to build over the last 40 years, I think we could claim that none of our competitors has achieved the same thing with at least the diversity of domain and disciplines we are covering. And if you look at now, none of our competitors are addressing exactly the same kind of sector of the industry we serve with the same requirement in terms of scientific disciplines and domain expertise you need to have. And the second thing we bet since almost the beginning of the company that at some point of time, the distance between the virtual and the real will be almost 0. And I remember, Bernard been challenged at that time that at some point of time, we could certify an airplane on the virtual model. At some point of time, we will be able to certify a drug on the virtual model. This is where we are. So the consequence of this is what -- you remember, we have invented PLM, product life cycle management. And I think we will reinvent it for the next 20 years. Why so? The first thing is, remember what PLM is about. PLM means product life cycle management. I think now what we can do is manage the life of the thing, the things in operations. And that's what the concept of this, we call it the loop. The symbol behind me is telling. For 40 years, we built the virtual twin or to a certain extent, to drive the innovation cycle from the ID to the design, to the engineering to the manufacturing to the product introductions and to the management of the hand of life. We want to use the same concepts, but to orchestrate, to operate, to collect the product in use and at the end to deliver the experiences. So that's the first shift. And you have 1 example. It's a washing machine, and you have recognized the name of 1 of our long-standing customers, Miller. And that's what they do with us. That's the first thing. So clearly, we are using the virtual twin, and we are virtualizing, if you want the operations ultimately to deliver the experience and to observe the product in real life. And obviously, we are reinjecting this knowledge and know-how into the innovation cycle. There is a second reinvention we should do, which is this one. PLM has been invented to manage only 1 life, right? And now with the circularity of the economy, you have to manage multiple lives. It's game changing. Believe me, it's not a small statement, because none of the system has been designed to do this, except us. That's the reason why we have this material science as part of it. That's the reason why we do not have record in our database. We are managing different stages. So I think this topic of sustainability is becoming extremely important because we are at a point whereby we need to imagine a world without having a waste. We did also to do what-if scenarios, if you want to understand how we can reuse, repurpose again and against the multiple elements of the products. And that's what you have behind me. You have -- you remember, Bernard saying if those matters, those materials, they could tell their story. They could maybe share with you that they have been a car and they will become a shirt, and they will maybe become a chip, that's exactly the concept we want to do. And these -- those 2 trends are really reshaping completely the landscape. Last night, many of you, you wanted to discuss AI and data. So let me share some perspective with you on what are our beliefs. Speaking about the data economy, I think it's not enough. Data is the raw materials, right? It's good to have it. But sometimes believe me or that there are certain domain, especially when you do innovation, you do not have the data. Remember, when we work with Tesla to develop the autonomous driving systems, None of 1 single car were allowed at that time to really circulate in the city. So how we did this? We will combine AI with modeling and simulations, and we were driving virtually the car in a virtual city but connecting the real ECU and connecting the real software, which was the 1 that has been designed to drive the autonomy of the car. That's point number one. So the data economy for me, it's not a real economy. It's a raw materials. The real economy against is the experience economy. And you need to transform those data into knowledge and know-how. And that's what you have behind me is how we extract from the data, the information. The information we are also creating the relations. And progressively, we build the knowledge and the know-how because that's what virtualization means to digitalize and virtualize the knowledge and the know-how. And when you do this, you have to elevate at the same time to elevate the data into structure to elevate the relation into context to elevate the knowledge into models and to elevate the know-how into experiences. Because if you are a consumer, if you have a patient on a citizen, you do not have the know-how, but you can enjoy the experience. So that's what we are doing for the last 40 years, guys. We do this really. And Bernard was mentioning some proof point, the 3D printing. That's what we do. And the story started with the CNC machine, where we were extracting from the design automatically the set of instructions to guide the machine. We did the same for the robots at 20 years ago. So for us, the knowledge and the know-how is becoming the new book of the experience. There is a second takeaway. The generative AI, at least this is our part, our belief, needs to be a human center. This is extremely important. And here, again, you have some examples. We can use AI to imagine the new frontier to explore new spaces, new possibility. And you have an interesting example behind me, which is the biotherapeutics. And I remember, in 2022, I guess, Google with deep mines claiming, there was the first 1 to generate drugs using AI. This is not true. We did it 7 years before. And today, this technology is more and more used by the pharma sector at large, including for not anymore of the chemistry, but for the biology. And it's much more complex because the biology, it's a living spaces. It's not a formulation by itself. The second thing is, I think this technology is widely used and extremely helpful for the people to navigate the complexity. And you have an example, an operator, he has to do some task, and you have seen it's -- we are using the augmented reality. But behind the augmented reality, you have the modeling simulation and AI combined. And the system is guiding the persons to take the right decisions at the right time. The last element, Ultimately, if we want to provide the high level of synthesis, it's what we call the experience. And as a proof point, we have HomeByMe. HomeByMe is extremely sophisticated, extremely. Believe me, even at the end, you have the feeling that it's simple things. But you, as a consumer, you are not decorator, you are not an architect, you are not a plumber, right? You are not mastering those knowledge and know-how. But the system is guiding you very simply, easily using the natural language, the natural interactions at the end to produce the room or the house of your dream. That's what we believe. The last comment for me is extremely important. And you remember, we want to put almost 0 distance between the virtual and the real, which basically means you have to be deterministic. Being probabilistic, it's a good thing. It's helping you, but it's not enough, because in many industries, we are serving at the end, you have a regulator, you have an authority and you need to prove. And if you do not combine the those technology in order to give the proof point, it's something you simply cannot do. So at the end, all those things you have seen, the reinvention of the PLM, the combination of those new technologies is giving an ability to do something which is, I think, unique, which is to scale up the virtual experience at a point whereby we can now shift to the platform and industry solutions to the end result, which is the virtual twin. So if you keep this in mind, you would accept that this is changing the economic equation of everything we do, right? And you have animations, at least it will probably help you to understand that the way you price, the way you articulate the value could be seen in a very complete different manner because you have multiple touch points. You have multiple type of users you want to connect. You have multiple industry, multiple systems, models, information, relations, experience, whatever we can price. So this is really changing the game, and that's the reason why more than doing Software-as-a-Services, which basically is what you are asking us to do, we want to do Experience as a Services. And I will try to convince you in the last 2 minutes, why its much better. Now if we move to our story, remember, when we started the company, we were organizing if you want all of our portfolio along the brands. And the brand was for us a way to equip the professionals with advanced knowledge and knowledge with capabilities, right? And that's the reason why you heard Bernard and last night, I was presenting Philippe Laufer, and telling him -- he's in charge of the user community, the professional community, right, at the point whereby in certain industry, people are defining their world, but being a CATIA designer. So we reached this, and we will continue to do this, of course. In 2012, we have introduced the platform and the industry solutions with a different goal. The goal was not to get only the value coming from the empowerment of the users, it was a way to guide the transformation of the enterprises. And they need to lead a platform because most of the transformation was coming from the fact that to connect the dots. And obviously, all the different industries, all the different companies, they have different transformation to lead. I think with the virtual twin experience, we can go a step further. Why so? Because if you assume that you have multiple lives to manage, if you assume that the twin will be used in operations, we have what I call the power of the numbers. You have the multipliers, which is you will have as much virtual twin, then you have users, consumer, patients, citizens, you will have as much a twin that you -- you will have car, big use on a daily basis, building being occupied. That's how the multiplication, if you want, could come. And this is extremely deep in terms of transformations because I think, again, if you accept that at the end, we do Experience as a Service, we could almost backfill the brands, the platform and the industry solution with a content you will subscribe in order to get access to the virtual twin capacity. That's how we are giving framing, if you want, the next strategic framework in order to continue to develop the company. Comments on this. You remember, each time we are coming with a new strategic step. In fact, you will accept that we do more than repositioning the company. In fact, we are creating our own market. And it's not ever going to say this. When we invented PLM at that time, the industry was still focusing on the CAD. So we came in the concept whereby no one was having the solution really. It was a new -- real new market. So why I'm seeing this? Because when -- each time we design, if you want the market we want to serve, at the same time, we also redefined the boundary and we expand significantly the opportunity. So moving from CAD to PLM and PLM to platform. You can see each time we almost double the opportunity of the market we want to address. When we move from things to life, which is another level of abstraction, right, you will recognize, we multiply it by 3, the addressable market. Now moving to and opening this new chapter and moving to virtual twin,, Experience as a Services, we are multiplying by 10 our addressable market, and we are changing the units -- it's not any more billions or hundreds of billions. We are convinced that the market we could serve is a trillion. I'm sure you will have many questions, and I'm sure you will probably challenge this number, but if again, you accept that the twin is becoming, I would say, universal resources for the society in everything we do, not only to invent things, but to -- in your day-to-day life, you will accept easily that this number is achievable. Okay. So to wrap up before to give the floor to Rouven, I think more than ever, we are using our purpose, harmonizing nature, product and life not only to guide the strategy of the company, but to guide the positioning, to guide our investment policy, to guide the talents we want to have also. It's really much more deep and only a statement, which is written on the paper. The second thing I want to share with you, I'm convinced we are uniquely positioned to impact the industry and the society at large. And this metamorphosis concept, I think, is really the way to look at it. And what we have done in the past is giving us the foundations to build the future and to progressively move to the virtual twin experience, opportunity and positioning. That's, I think, the journey we want to follow for the next 20 years. 20 years in 20 minutes. I hope you follow me, and I hope you are trusting us to make it happen. So now Rouven, please join me on stage because that's the grand vision. Now I'm sure, guys, you want to understand what are the gates. What is the 5 years plan, where we want -- where do we want to be in 5 years from now. Rouven, you have the floor.

Thank you so much, Pascal. Thank you. Okay. So let's do it. Thank you, Pascal, for the introduction. So I think the framework is defined. We are -- you saw a press release this morning, and I'm trying to connect the dots between our vision and what we are going to put into action for the next 5 years. So for this, and I need to remind, I always have to click. Okay. So for this, we have -- I have prepared 3 sectors. I structured the presentation into 3 parts. First, I'd like to make sure I connect the dots to what Bernard illustrated about our legacy and the track record that we have established, and how do we measure that? Because it gives us the confidence and the reasons to believe for what's coming next. And that we will see evidenced in our next 5-year growth plan, which is the second point of the agenda. And the third point of the agenda, then will be to talk about the business model, the journey that we already have behind us, but also the things that will happen over the next 5 years to further strengthen the durability of our business model. And I think for you as investors, you value very much the predictability of our model and that will be a continuous focus for us to ensure that we strengthen this. So with this, I transition to my first slide. Yes. And it's very good -- your last slide, Pascal was very good because it -- what I want to talk about here is exactly what you were illustrating on a strategic level is how do we actually translate the strategy into action, how do we measure our success when we formulate our strategy and the consistency that it is required to follow up. So you see the blue line is our total addressable market. And this covers the space from 2010 to 2022. And the bars, the dark blue bars is the revenue. So the space that we were able to cover -- the space that we were created with our addressable market and the revenue growth that we were able to execute to cover that space and grow into the potential of the addressable market that we have created. And I think with -- 2012, when we introduced the 3DEXPERIENCE platform, you saw, we introduced a step function of opportunity into the market where we increased our total addressable market to about EUR 32 billion. And this provided us a runway to grow into by also expanding some new domains that are listed up here that are part of our platform approach, and we were able to consistently take advantage of the space that we created to grow. And in 2019, we further expanded into the Life Sciences and Health sector with the acquisition of MEDIDATA, which gave us another lag in terms of TAM expansion to EUR 45 million to EUR 50 billion for 2022. So I think my key takeaway here is that we have a systematic approach of building TAM and execution. And as you heard from Bernard and Pascal, and they made it, I think, very clear today that in a way, you could take the perspective that we just started. This is the foundation that we have -- that we've built. And the next is now what we have the opportunity to create. So now let's talk the next track record. I would like to quickly highlight because Bernard perfectly introduced it already, is how are we are focused on creating shareholder value and how do we make sure that the objectives we have as a company internally are also translated to the objectives that you measure as shareholders and that are translating into shareholder return. And you see here the consistency between the 2 curves on EPS and our share price since the IPO in 1996 to 2022, and that reflects an EPS multiplier of 23x since 1996 and a share price multiple of 30x, and we know, of course, this is fluctuating. It can be higher, it can be lower. But nevertheless, when we look at it over a long period of time, I think we see it is very well aligned, and it is also clear for us in the future that we will continue to be focused on this because we have doubled the EPS consistently since 1996, every 5 years. That's what's reflected in here. And we see it works, and we will continue to do that. So now I'm sure then your next question is, so how do you ensure that this actually is happening? And what are the financial numbers behind this to translate this into earnings per share growth. And there are 5 key KPIs that I quickly would like to walk you through that demonstrates the track record of the durable and consistent financial model that we have created at Dassault Systèmes for a long time. And yes, I'm comparing here from 2010 to 2023, so quite a period. But I think it's important to see the evolution and the consistency of growth. We created, first, an engine for revenue growth. Since 2010, growing at 11% on average, almost 4-fold up since 2010 to EUR 6 billion in 2023. That's what we expect. At the same point in time, we consistently improved our profitability, while at the same point in time, we were able to offset the dilution from acquisition and made the necessary investments into the long-term growth and building the company and the reach that we have created that is necessary, and it's reflected in the hiring rate of 1,300 new employees per year joining Dassault Systèmes since 2010. And again, we will continue to do that. We created an industry-leading operation for cash conversion that is reaching now a level of over 85% converted of operating income to operating cash flow, which is a very, very strong performance. And that, of course, gives us the ability to put this capital to work to drive organic growth, but also to look at inorganic opportunities. And I think what we've created since the acquisition of MEDIDATA and the deleveraging schedule that we were able to execute, is a clear demonstration of the strength and how this model really drives value for shareholders and it also gives trust into what we do. And the last part, we talked about it already, but this translates then ultimately into the EPS growth. And Bernard mentioned the word disciplined before. I think I want to highlight, this year the disciplined execution, which makes the difference that we deliver this year-over-year-over-year-over-year and the consistency. And yes, we always said that when we drive this growth, there's an organic contribution, which is the majority of which we drive, but there is also an inorganic part that we are creating, which will then, of course, in the long-term, be part of our organic growth model. And we also show here that approximately EUR 0.17 of the EUR 0.60 improvement between 2018 and 2023 was generated by the MEDIDATA acquisition and EUR 0.43 to be totally accurate from the organic part of the company outside of MEDIDATA. So before I move now to the next 5-year plan, I have 1 more slide that I think is important because it's a framework that we have created, which is really important to understand the way we work and the way we put strategy to action and the consistency we have, which we will also apply for the next 5 years plan. That's why I want to make sure I touch on it quickly. So the 3 really key important strategic and operational levers are threefold. It is based on our platform. Our platform is here to drive domain adoption. It is based on our industry approach, which is about to define value for users across multiple industries. And it is our geo model to deliver scale and reach for our clients. So let's quickly review how we put this framework into action. And when we say put this into action, we have 2 dimensions. One is VALUE UP and 1 is VALUE WIDE. When we talk about VALUE WIDE -- VALUE UP, it is about the growth we generate from our existing customers. So how much more can we create -- value create with customers that we are already working with, and a very, very good lever and strategy that we have in place is what the 3DEXPERIENCE platform, obviously, is our customers to expand the adoption across multiple domains. And there's a journey as our customers are connecting the dots end-to-end, from designing new objects to experiencing those objects in the real world and in operation to go end to end. But to drive this domain adoption, we measure the revenue generated with the 3DEXPERIENCE platform as a percent of our total software revenue. We talk about this every quarter. So you're very familiar with the number. In 2022, it was 33% of our software revenue was generated with 3DEXPERIENCE platform, 25% in 2018. And I will touch base on the evolution of this driver. Let me talk about the next 5 years. The industry diversification is a measure also of strength. And we serve today 12 different industries, and we improved that measure now to almost 50% diversification, which we continue to further move upwards. When we talk about the geos and the channels, it's about how we deliver value to our customers and the ability to drive more revenue by transaction. When we lead with the 3DEXPERIENCE platform, we have an uplift factor on average of 1.7x. So very clear with our platform, we can drive bigger deals and create more value. And in many, many cases, it's just a starting point. Now let's move to VALUE WIDE. Value wide is about expanding our usage and winning new customers. And here, it's a -- we put the cloud into this category because for us, the cloud is not about replacing what exists. The cloud is about creating incremental new opportunities with new customers and new usages and new experiences. In 2022, the revenue generated by cloud was EUR 1.2 billion. Yes, we know a big part of it comes from Life Sciences and Health but an increasing share comes from 3DEXPERIENCE cloud and SOLIDWORKS cloud, and we'll also talk about this later. Our win ratio, when we compete, we have a track record of winning. I don't need to comment this any more, but you see it here. And we are winning more than 20,000 new clients per year on average. So now I'll make a very quick pause because I'm moving now to the next 5 years. With this in mind, let's explore together what is going to take to deliver the next 5 years plan. Okay. So we talked about our track record, our track record that gives us the confidence to go to the next and outline the building blocks of our next 5 years plan. And I want to start with the platform. Bernard and Pascal articulated already and positioned it. When we talk about the opportunity of the platform, it is a multiplier effect. And the multiplier effect, we are delivering not only through the adoption of multiple brands and domains on the platform, but also in the ability now to expand from the cycle of innovation to the cycle of this and creating the 3DEXPERIENCE economy. So that will be an underlying foundation for a long time. And this allows us to address new audiences. And we have the ambition that everyone connected to the enterprise, every user connected to the enterprise will over time become a user of this collaborative 3DEXPERIENCE platform. That's what I mean here with the long-term growth model expanding users to the entire enterprise. When we think about our Life Sciences and Health sector, we will expand our notion of focusing on patients in clinical trials to the entire patient journey. And thirdly, many, many, many of our industries are becoming consumer -- much more consumer oriented, and it will be very important for us to serve also the consumers at the same point in time directly as well as enabling our clients to better serve their customers through our technology. And of course, I will outline this in more detail, so don't worry. This is based on a business model and an execution model that's already in place, which is -- which the foundation is the cloud as well as the recurring revenue model of driving increasing subscription revenue and predictable revenue. So with this, I will go now -- before I go through the elements, I wanted to quickly reflect as well on the sectors that we are working in. Because if we talk about the growth opportunity and the execution plan, we also need to understand the market trends at the high level. So as Pascal highlighted, we have a very large addressable market. We are serving 3 sectors of the economy. And with this, we're touching 80% of the worldwide GDP. That's the short story. In the manufacturing industry, we are the undisputed leaders. We know this market is becoming much more connected to 5G, and consumer orientation and sustainability at the core and the new value networks that are created. And this -- with this in mind, we are confident to outperform this market growth and grow in this market of 9% to 10%. When we move to Life Sciences & Healthcare, this industry is transforming rapidly and we are uniquely positioned here to improve people's life by making drug discovery and drug development much more efficient and empower patients and doctors with the relevant data to improve the patient experience. And for infrastructure, and here, our ambition is to grow 13% and 15%. You are familiar with this number. In infrastructure and cities, yes, we are the challengers. But at the same point in time, we are well positioned and why so because we can increase much more value with the power of our platform approach than what the legacy players in this industry can do today. And for this reason, we believe that here as well, we can outperform this market growth. We know we started a smaller denominator because we are -- have a smaller footprint here, but 12% to 14% is our ambition to grow in this market. If you add this all up, I think we are very well positioned to generate 10% growth over the long-term, considering these trends in the sectors we operate in. So now with this, I would like to transition to the drivers of our 5-year growth plan. And this overview first is a high-level overview, and then I will go through each of those drivers in a little bit more detail. So first message of this slide is, as you read this morning, we're going to EUR 9.5 billion in revenue, 10% CAGR is our ambition to grow. And the levers that we have put in place are delivering this incremental EUR 3.5 billion. And the first lever I've already introduced, obviously, is we are expecting to triple the revenue with the 3DEXPERIENCE platform compared to where we are today. Remember the chart before, I said we are at EUR 1 billion in 3DEXPERIENCE revenue approximately, it was 33%. It's about EUR 1 billion in 3DEXPERIENCE software revenue. And we will move -- we will add EUR 2 billion to this. It will become EUR 3 billion in total. And how we are doing this and what the potential is, I explained on the next slide, but clearly, it's based on the ability to expand domains, connecting new users and we're also creating new business experience, based on AI, data science and sustainability to really help enable full circularity. And these customer examples are the reasons to believe that this is not something new. It's in full execution. The second driver of growth is the value we create around the patient experience with our brands, MEDIDATA and BIOVIA, first and foremost. And here, as I said before, the opportunity is to really expand our value proposition to improve patient experience and value of care holistically. And we have the proof points with the customers who trust us and also sharing their data, as Bernard was mentioning, to really deploy new business models that would have been unthinkable before. And that 13% to 15% growth is going to add an additional EUR 1 billion of revenue to already EUR 1 billion, our baseline. So we will be at EUR 2 billion by 2028 in this -- of this part. And with our Consumers business, which is led by Centric PLM and 3DVIA, we have a gigantic opportunity because here, we are focusing to help our clients who are still, in many ways, are in the times of excel sheets, spreadsheets and e-mails to connect the dots to really accelerate and make the operation more efficiently and sustainable and as well with 3DVIA, we're going to empower the consumers to become creators, and we have the proof points to show that. And finally, as it relates to our installed base, that's a small point at the bottom, we will also continue to progressively transition our customers who are under support today -- the licensing model under support today to convert them into a subscription model, which will progressively add to the growth that we are generating between 2023 and 2028. So next, I'm going through each of those blocks in a little bit more detail to outline the potential. I now start with the 3DEXPERIENCE opportunity and the opportunity we have within our installed base. We have a massive installed base, as Bernard mentioned, and by just focusing on this installed base, we create an opportunity to grow the revenue for 3DEXPERIENCE platform, which today is at EUR 1 billion. We have the opportunity to fill that space of 8x to 10x. So how are we doing that? The biggest lever in this equation is the VALUE WIDE opportunity because if we consider we have more than 300,000 clients. And we also consider that a big portion of our mainstream customers, right? We serve very well today our direct and larger clients. But in the mainstream market, and those customers we serve through our partner ecosystem and our VAR partners, the adoption of the 3DEXPERIENCE platform is not at the same level. So we see the adoption level in our installed base for those clients that are relevant, that about 20%. So if we fill out the entire opportunity of customer base, we have to adopt the 3DEXPERIENCE platform and the power of the numbers with the 3DEXPERIENCE platform. There's a 4 to 5x room to fill, right? The space to travel, is, for us, very large in our -- only within our customer base. And when we think about the adoption of domains of those clients and now at VALUE UP, when we think about the domains of those clients who are using the 3DEXPERIENCE platform today, there's significant value expansion opportunity for us as well to deploy the platform much more holistically, more users, more domains. On average, we think we cover about 40% of the domain opportunity. And if we think holistically, we have still 2x to 3x of opportunity to cover with the 3DEXPERIENCE platform with the existing customer at a minimum. So if you combine those 2 factors, this is the potential that we have within our installed base. Okay. Now let's move on to Life Sciences and Health opportunity. EUR 1 billion opportunity to grow, 1 additional EUR 1 billion. The growth drivers, I think, are very well established. And for MEDIDATA, our strategy is working, and it's in full motion since day one. There's a lot of value to be created, continuous value to be created to drive much more efficiency in global clinical trial management. The expansion of our Patient Cloud opportunity to become mainstream and serve patients much more holistically is massive. And the data opportunity is very unique for us, because of the access we have to data and the uniqueness of the data that we work with and leveraging AI and data will help us to advance evidence generation and also help to accelerate the path to precision medicine. And with BIOVIA, our growth opportunity is also very clearly defined. And I'm just listing a few topics here. I could make a very large list of it, but I just want to focus on those 3, which are very relevant to bring value to our -- to bring value to our clients. And it really starts with the need to discover new drugs and manufactured cell and gene therapies at scale and much lower cost. We know that in the preclinical phase, the largest -- one of the largest research efforts is around cell and gene therapies and those clinic and those will all become clinical trials at some point in time. And it's a very different operation it requires and lab and research information. So BIOVIA will play a very critical role in this transformation. And this will be a prerequisite to make precision medicine a reality. So I think we have a very unique opportunity here to double the size of our business. Now I want to move to the consumer. Yes. So for the consumer, we expect to add EUR 300 million to reach EUR 0.5 billion by 2028. And I think with Centric, we are also sitting on a growth engine that is already working extremely strong and the opportunity to grow with Centric PLM in their space through addressing new industries, so a VALUE WIDE approach as well as to implement the platform approach to create more value with existing customers is very, very unique. And you see the amazing number of brands that already have -- that are using Centric PLM and the opportunity to grow within this massive customer base, I think, is gigantic. For 3DVIA, I think we can show how we are transforming the consumer experience with 3D home design. And here, we have a very large market to serve. And we are partnering with the leaders of the economy like IKEA. So we are proving that we are able to take advantage of entirely new ideas and change business models. So -- that's another growth lever. It's at a little bit of a lower level, but it's an engine that we are building for the future. So this highlights the potential that we are creating. And now with these growth drivers in mind, let me transition to the third point of my presentation to talk about the durable business model during the next phase. As we drive towards this next phase of growth, of course, we will also continue to further shape our business model, clear. And there are 3 key messages for you that I want to share that are most important. So the first one is that the upfront license revenue in 2028 is only 15%. So here, we look at 100% chart and we compare license revenue support and subscription. And then I combine here subscription and support to the recurring revenue and we show here the progression of the recurring revenue, just to give you the understanding of this slide. So it's at 100%. And in 2028, the software revenue is at EUR 8.6 billion, and the total revenue was EUR 9.5 billion. So -- you can do the math where the service revenue is to reach EUR 9.5 billion. In 2028, my first message is we expect our license revenue to be 15% of the total software revenue. So it has a very low impact on the overall mix at this point. And it is coming from 20% in 2023 and 30% in 2018. So when you compare the progression we made between 2018 and 2023, and the next plan, that is only half of the improvement that we already generated in our last plan. So in a way, we can say that -- I get a lot of questions about license dependency, there's a lot of transformation that we already have accomplished in our last -- lower impact level than what we have done in the past. That's the first message. The second message is, when we think about the growth of Dassault Systèmes, it will be closely aligned and correlated to the growth of subscription revenue. We see this evidenced in our 2022 numbers and 2023 first quarter as well as our objective for the year, but we expect subscription revenue to be more than 20% CAGR between 2023 and 2028. And as this is shaping the growth profile of the company, it's also driving the mix of revenue. And the third key message is that the recurring revenue share is increasing to 85% from 70% to 85%, and it's, of course, driven by the strong growth and progression here in subscription revenue. So these are the 3 main things to really understand about our business model evolution and the point that is important to take away, this is already well underway and we are going now to the next step, in further shaping the structure, but also driving growth organically of 10%. How are we doing that? This comes back again to the operational and strategic framework that are introduced before the VALUE UP opportunity with the 3DEXPERIENCE platform, the VALUE WIDE opportunity, which also has an uplift factor in cloud. And then as we transition to more and more subscription revenue, we know that after year 3, the growth of subscription revenue is higher than in the traditional model. And in our next phase of the plan between 2023 and 2028, we will cross that year 3 for every contract and customer we have already brought to our subscription. So there is a tailwind that we are going to see coming through that transformation. Okay. So with this, I want to transition very briefly to the cloud. I know you have questions on this, and this is a slide that I shared with you last year -- similar, not exactly the same, but similar format. And here, to outline it very clear, we are targeting to achieve over EUR 3 billion in cloud revenue by 2028. You remember, we have our target by 2025 of EUR 2 billion. And in 2022, we were at EUR 1.2 billion. Very important to highlight this -- when we talk about our cloud is our cloud offering that today, the complete portfolio is cloud-based with industry-leading standards for availability uptime and higher standards for security. From a growth perspective, you see our portfolio, the 13% to 15% growth in the Life Science & Healthcare sector, which covers about 2/3 of the growth of over EUR 3 billion by 2028. And we see that the accelerated growth is coming from 3DEXPERIENCE, 3DEXPERIENCE Works and HomeByMe and Centric PLM. So we are going to expand and accelerate our growth with our 3DEXPERIENCE experience cloud offering. And underneath of this is 3DS OUTSCALE, Bernard already framed it. And this is our common cloud infrastructure and Platform as a Service. That is the catalyst for the cloud acceleration and the scalability that is required. And I think that's a very unique differentiation. Okay. Now I have 2 more slides to go. The last slide will be about the EPS growth trajectory and assumptions. But before I get to this point, I wanted to quickly outline as well the 1 important framework, which is our capital allocation strategy, which is very key when we think about the next 5-year plan as well as when we talk about the value we can create through inorganic growth. The key message for you is that we have a growth-oriented capital allocation strategy. That means more than 2/3 of our operating cash flow is dedicated to strategic investments. So we -- when I mean growth-oriented capital allocation strategy, we put that capital to work to drive growth in the long-term. And about 20% on average is dedicated to CapEx and targeted bolt-on acquisitions, which is really to expand our domain and to make tuck-in acquisitions. These are, of course, smaller in volume. But there are always purposes where we have the opportunities to deploy capital to expand and accelerate time to market, to address growing needs of our customers. More than 50% is allocated to strategic purposes to finance strategic M&A. And so if you put both together, over 70%, we use to invest into the growth of the company. And our MEDIDATA, of course, would be something that would sit here, of course. And then about 1/3 is dedicated to be returned to shareholders, to the dividends, we have the policy Bernard explained to you. And then in terms of share buybacks, so we have a very, very disciplined approach to buy back shares to offset dilution from share-based compensation. And I know that matters to you as well. So EUR 1.6 billion was the average operating cash flow over the last 2 years per year. And we expect this to grow to EUR 2 billion in the next plan -- we will see when we will reach that. But within the next plan, we're confident to reach that. So we will continue to leverage this model that we have in place, and this framework that we have in place to invest into growth. Okay. So talking EPS growth perspective for 2028. And we set a range of EUR 2.20 to EUR 2.40 per share by 2028, which reflects to double our EPS at the high end of this range. This plan comprised of 3 main building blocks. The first building block is the organic one. We expect to generate EUR 0.80 from here. And the assumption are the ones that we discussed before, 10% revenue growth organically, operating margin expansion of 40 basis points. We continue to invest into long-term growth, and we will continue to leverage our strong cash conversion model. And then as we have demonstrated in our previous plan, M&A is a key driver of our growth plan, and this is also true for the next phase. And we do expect the contribution from M&A here, to be around EUR 600 million to EUR 650 million in operating -- income operating contribution to deliver by 2028. And also, we know that reflecting on the current level of interest rates, we anticipate a positive contribution on EPS level only after year 2. I think that's also important to remember it's different than in the last plan. And please remember, when we do acquisitions, we are financing our acquisition with cash. So the net of this, we have set a placeholder, I would call it, right, because there's a lot -- that's not known today. It's a placeholder that we have set to contribute approximately 20% to EPS objective by 2028. And in aggregate here, the 2 together we define as our baseline to achieve EUR 2.20 by 2028. And then we have EUR 0.20 of acceleration that we are targeting to achieve and -- we talked about today about our opportunity and the potential that we have in front of us to capitalize on this gigantic opportunity. And this will be, for us, the way to increase and accelerate our growth to deliver more EPS to this plan as well to see if there are ways to expand our M&A contribution and our M&A pipeline to drive additional opportunities and EPS. But -- that remains to be seen. So I think I've reached a black screen. That was not bland. Okay. So I have 3 key takeaways I quickly wanted to share before I let you to the break. The first one is we define a model of consistent execution. I think we have the evidence and we have the track record, and we will continue to build on this. We've done it over decades. The second point is, we are at an inflection point, and this inflection point is beyond Dassault Systèmes. As a company, we see that inflection point also with our customers as our customers' business models are transforming and require different strategies to be deployed. And they are coming to us to help transform them. And this results in the expansion of our TAM. We are in a different world. And last but not least, we are confident about our next phase of growth that will lead to doubling EPS by 2028. And with this, I've concluded our -- my session. I think we've concluded our 3 sessions. We have a short break. I don't know how much more time I needed for this. Do we have 10 minutes break still? 15? And we come back to Q&A. Thank you so much. [Break]

Okay. We're taking first questions from the room, and then we'll see, go from here, Jay. So you were very fast raising your arm. We have microphones. Well, this is a reputation of Jay, right? The mic is coming here.

Jay Vleeschhouwer, Griffin Securities. Two things, Nearly 2/3 of your incremental revenue over the next number of years are coming from enterprise, as you call it, and I would assume that, in turn, ties very closely to your industrial innovation and mainstream innovation businesses. Within that, peeling the business a little further, your 2 largest brands have not been close recently to that high single-digit CAGR. So first, are you anticipating an acceleration in your 2 largest brands named CATIA and SOLIDWORKS within that? And how are you thinking about the other brands in terms of faster growth, such as DELMIA, SIMULIA, et cetera. Secondly, and I think relatedly, one thing Dassault does not often speak about but I think today kind of compels the question is your sales model. How are you thinking about the redefining or repositioning of what we can also call your customer engagement model for the various aspects of your growth over the next number of years?

Okay. I will start with the first question, Jay. Yes, I mean, first of all, we are -- we don't talk too much anymore about revenues by brands. You know you are starting to go down this decade of peeling every brand in itself. I think when you followed our presentation, what is really going to be much more is about the platform and how the platform drives value across multiple brands. And the industry, the growth that we generate within certain industries, we -- I think we've been very successful in transportation, mobility and air and space. I take life scientists to the site for here, but these are 2 core industries and also in high tech, to name another one. You are right, we had some challenges with the SOLIDWORKS growth, but this was related to some of the macro factors we were facing as well. And please remember, we are transitioning this also the SOLIDWORKS model more and more to become subscription and a platform model from the desktop. So this is in the earlier stages. So these are all the components that are put to place and the shift to the subscription model will drive incremental revenue. But it's really the power of the platform and the power of the numbers that will elevate the brands and the growth potential at large.

Maybe I could add a few things. I think you are referring to SOLIDWORKS probably. Keep in mind that you still have a large 2D base. If I step back a little bit, believe it or not, you still have more than 5 million people still working in 2D. And every year, you have around 5% to 6% still migrating in 3D. We are capturing half of this. So just by itself, these transitions is giving an underlying foundations to fulfill the growth for SOLIDWORKS. On top of this, that's what Rouven was explaining. We are doing the value up on the SOLIDWORKS installed base with the adoption of the 3DEXPERIENCE platform and the rest of what we do. And right now, and Rouven, I think you made a good demonstration. Let's assume we are just only focusing on the installed base. Just assume we are just selling everything we have. You remember the potential 10x. 10x. So why I'm saying this because I think it's a nice transition to your following question, I think, which is how we do this. If you look at the performance of the 3DEXPERIENCE platform and the cloud, I think the direct engagement model are leading the pack. The vast majority of the growth, the vast majority of our customers have adopted 3DEXPERIENCE platform at large. And we have the benefit of this with a large engagement we have, and this is fulfilling the growth almost quarter-after-quarter. For the SOLIDWORKS installed base, we just started a few quarters ago. Still a small number growing extremely, fast, extremely fast. And again, you need to have the material effects before to see the incremental contributions. The third question is related to the capacity of resellers of the indirect model to do this. And each time we are meeting with them, I have these conversations, which is when we speak about VARs, there are 3 letters, V-A-R. The first question I'm asking to them is what VAR is about. Usually, they say it's reselling. I say, no, its relationship. Why so? Because given the number of customers, we are serving more than 300,000, right? Remember, a company like Salesforce, it's 100,000. Company like ECP, it's less than 300,000. So we have a massive installed base, massive set of customers we need to serve. So the ecosystem is needed to do this. And the ecosystem is a way to build the relationship. So the R does not meet reseller, means relationship. And then after the second question is what kind of value added you should put to nurture this relationship. In the past, the value added was much more the IT domain or the IT expertise with the cloud, with the platform coming where we are operating on behalf of our customers, most of this. The value added is much more the industry knowledge. Maybe at the first time, they will be able to build a virtual twin for our customers themselves. So the value added is not any more IT-centric, it's much more knowledge and know-how, quality to the industry they serve. And this transition is not an easy thing to do. But I think by doing this properly, we are building the foundation for the next 20 years to fulfill the vision I just shared with you. So I'm pretty confident that it's moving along the right directions. I'm pretty confident that maybe not all of them, they will be able to do this. But again, I think we are building the ecosystem to make it up.

Okay. There was many more questions. Frederic, maybe you want to be next.

It's Fred at Bank of America. A question around M&A. So if you can discuss some of the priorities that you have, in which areas you see more potential potentially to -- in those 3 core areas. When you look at your long-term vision, the 2040 vision you presented, what does that mean? Any specific acquisitions that could make sense to support that? Anything you can say around timing, et cetera, would be very useful.

So you want me to send the e-mail with the list? Against why I took the time to give you the long version it's, I think, for you to have the framework in mind. So if you follow what I'd say, of course, you have -- you still have the 3 sectors of the economy, and we are not covering all the sub-industry, subsegment of the industry, and we still can expand. Right now, we are covering 12 industries, but I think we can cover much more. That's one piece. And again, remember, we have as much as opportunity in the 3 sectors. Do not consider that, for example, infrastructure and city is the #1 priority, okay? It is one of them. And as you know, to do these kind of movements, you need to be, too, so to a certain extent. When it will be the appropriate time, we will do it. The second thing is moving from the -- if we look to the left to the right, which is the virtual twins to drive the innovations, the virtual twin to run, if you want to orchestrate and to operate the product in use. It's an entire greenfield, right? So just by itself, it's opening many, many, many new candidates we could consider. The ability to extract from the data, the knowledge and the know-how is also one. That's the reason why I spent time to explain our strategy. If you believe, I think we should buy middleware to connect to the things in order to collect the information. This is not where we believe there is a value for us. Developing code does not mean you are developing intellectual property. When we are buying a company, we are buying teams, having huge intellectual property, not for what they did for the next generation, they're going to have to build. So extracting information from the data, combining this, the AI technology with bonding and simulation is also a space. The multiple life, right, is also an interesting case. We are just at the starting point. There are many, many new materials coming. We have to advance many new process in order to make this happen. It's an entire space, which is still greenfield also. So if you combine all those axis, to a certain extent, you have the strategic framework we are using to identify the potential target. And remember, we are not doing M&A to fulfill the plan. We are doing M&A to continue to conquest, to expand the addressable market and to build the capacity we need for the future.

Okay. So do we want to go to the left side? Laurent?

Laurent Daure from Kepler Cheuvreux. I have 3 quick questions. The first is a classic question, a quick update on China is a big question for investors those days. My second question is in your next 5-year plan. The hypothesis you took on the pricing. Is it all volume-related. Your 10% growth, have you taken 1, 2, 3 points of prices? And my final question is on the Life Science, your aspiration to get to EUR 2 billion of revenue. If you could give us a little bit of granularity on the shape of those revenue between the different products. I mean it's a lot of testing today. Is it going to move a lot and if it would be useful.

I'll start with China. So again, it's still -- we are not yet at the end of the Q2, right? So you will probably have to wait until we publish Q2 to have the details, but you are right. I mean we are explicit about the fact and I remember having the discussion with you when you were considering we were too shy in China at the beginning of the year because it seems that the economy was reopening, and we are relatively cautious. And you have seen in Q1, we decreased in China. So my statement I can make at this stage of the quarter is we will grow in Q2. Okay. And why so? There are at least 2 elements. The first one is in the revenue we do in China, the state-owned companies still represent a piece. And you remember in Q1, they were waiting the elections before to take some term decision. The elections being behind us. I think this is reopening. We are reengaging on the large transactions. And the second one, the mainstream market suffered a lot in China. Contrary to what's happened in Europe and in the U.S., where the governments, they have reinfused investments or cash to protect them, it was not happening in China. So when the economy started again, the first concern for them was to generate the revenue, not to think about what should be the next cycle or the next investment. Having 1 quarter or 2 behind us now, we have reengaged and I think we have positive sign on the mainstream market as well.

Yes. And then a quick update on your other 2 questions, pricing related and Life Sciences, I cover this quickly. So on pricing, pricing is always a level that you decide on a year-to-year basis. Of course, we have protection clauses to protect against inflation. When we renew our maintenance contracts, we regularly review our price lists and compare that to inflation forecasts across geos and countries. Now to project that for 5 years, you don't do that. It's somewhere reflected in your baseline assumption. So I would say straight answer is it's more volume-based, this growth. And we'll have to see how pricing will play out over the next 5 years. Related to the life sciences part, I gave -- when you looked at the slide carefully, there was some breakdown of the EUR 1 billion, where we said about 90% of this additional EUR 1 billion is driven through the incremental growth that we covered through the expanding Medidata portfolio. And the 10% that we are addressing through the expansion of what we are doing on more science oriented by BIOVIA, dedicated to life science. And BIOVIA is a brand, of course, covers many more other aspects. So that's a simple answer. Who want to be next? Charlie, you want to be next? There's the microphone close to you already.

It's Charlie Brennan here from Jefferies. I'll do 2 questions, if I can. The first is just the linearity of these targets. You're currently -- in the current year expecting 8% to 9% growth. You're targeting 10% growth over the medium term. How long do you think it's going to take for you to get to that 10% run rate? Do you think it's conceivable that you do that next year? Or do the targets feel a bit more back-end loaded than that? And then secondly, you've given us lots of numbers, but actually very few numbers around cash flow. I'm sure there's some rounding in this, but EUR 2 billion looks more like 5% per annum cash flow growth rather than 10%. Is there anything that you want to call out in terms of working capital or CapEx that we should be aware of?

No. I start with the second one. And then I'll explain 2020, your question around 2023 and 2024. Look -- when you looked again, we said EUR 2 billion plus, and I didn't give a time for the EUR 2 billion when it comes. So there's a time frame of 5 years, and we will cross that EUR 2 billion market at some point. Of course, working capital can fluctuate from year to year, has happened in 2022. 2023, we're catching up. The consistency is there. So it will be a matter of a few years until we reach the EUR 2 billion. And there is nothing other than that. Typically, we have not guided on cash flow. We're looking at a model where we grow cash flow in line with EPS growth, which is around 10%. That has been the consistent measure. But it's EUR 2 billion plus. And I think EUR 2 billion is a nice number compared to where we are, and that's what we aspire to get to as the next step.

Can I add one thing, please? We never guide because if you look at the ratio of conversions between the operating margins into cash, it's extremely high. So with the operating margin and the top line growth, you almost have the growth for the cash flow. That's the reason why. And you should not expect something else for the next 5 years.

And look, for -- right now, we're guiding, yes, 8% to 9%. This model projects 10%. We are not talking about 2024, right? We're talking about the next 5-year plan. I wouldn't say it's back-end loaded. We'll -- with everything that we are doing, we are on a trajectory to accelerate our growth. There's a lot of things that we have put in place that we will build on. We continue to invest. I was talking last night to many of your colleagues, who said you are pretty much the only software company who is hiring. We are hiring because we are accelerating growth. Mauro, do you want to be next?

Great. My first question is, I guess, for Bernard and for Pascal. When we look at the journey, one of the biggest constraints when you kind of define the vision has been just a pace of customer adoption, getting the kind of the partners on site to drive the change in a world where the kind of pace of disruption is now accelerating. How do you see that sort of velocity and the take up, both kind of within the installed base, the addition of the customers? How different is it, say, versus the prior 2 plans that you've had? Second question, I know Pascal, you talked about sort of M&A could be across all the different sort of sectors. When you think about product versus sort of the vertical because I know you're still going for the kind of platform approach. What are the kind of the -- you mentioned the people aspect around building the capabilities. But are there any kind of functional gaps or things in the platform that there are some significant gaps that you need to sort of address beyond just a vertical?

You start, I start?

You do whatever you want.

No, please.

Okay. I -- first of all, I think it's a very important question. What -- here are a few things we have noticed. Interaction with clients, I do a lot of interaction. Pascal asked me to do it with clients. What is happening as we observe the industry right now is, for example, in mobility or space or other sectors, well, there are new programs starting on the acceptance of the 3DEXPERIENCE platform is very high. In fact, I don't see many new programs starting without the 3DEXPERIENCE platform. That's new as compared to the previous cycle, where we were introducing the EXPERIENCE platform more to create proof points. Simply said, space, aerospace, mobility, energy sector, the more we see new program, the more it's automatic going 3DEXPERIENCE. That is a big change for the dynamic going forward. So it will be well-correlated to the program portfolio dynamics of those companies.

Related to the core domain or core technology, against you have seen in Rouven's presentation, you have what we call the bolt-on. The bolt-on is what we do. You -- we are almost buying a start-up every month. We are not communicating on this because they are not material. So it's part of the model. And again, that's not -- I'm repeating myself, but the most important is not the technology, it's the people. because they are the one having the capacity and the knowledge to develop the next generation and the next generation again. That's the reason why we have this, I would say, extensive activity in M&A. It's not because we want again to have more contribution from the inorganic part. It's because that's the way to fuel teams which are already in place, having a dream, having done part of the work, having the feeling that to go to the next step, they need to join a company like us to connect with the rest of what we do to give a distribution capacity, to give them the brand reputation, to give access to large customers. That's how we do things. There are domain where we want to be obviously the #1. Okay. I will not name all of them. I could name one of them, but in cyber system, we want to be the #1, by far. Adam?

You described in the presentation around Dassault moving from the individual brands to more of a platform-based approach. I think you can argue we're seeing that more broadly in software, we move from the apps layer being the dominant one to the platform layer being much more important over the next few years and customers consuming services from a platform rather than buying the apps. Could we say when we look at people like Google, they claim to be able to do drug development, Microsoft talks a lot about intelligent manufacturing that is actually those more platform-like companies rather than the apps companies you compete with today that are the biggest threat to your 2040 vision. They can obviously deploy AI, they can deploy M&A at huge scale. Are they the competitors that you would see more as the risk to that long-term vision? And could you talk a little bit around the differentiation you feel you have against them? And maybe critically, are you investing enough and going quickly enough today to make sure you get your fair share of the life sciences market, manufacturing transformation in the next 10 years versus what those companies could take?

If you follow my presentation, I gave the answer. That's the answer. Have you heard Google, have you heard all the names you just gave to me mentioning only one single word about this? No, because that's not the way they think. They think data. They think artificial intelligence. But at the end, they forget that the virtual experience, the virtual twin experience is a content encompassing the knowledge and the know-how of the industry. I think that's how we are differentiating ourselves since day 1. And Bernard could comment on it if he wants, day 1. I remember joining Dassault Systemes and being in a meeting with IBM. The big IBM of the day, right, explaining to us that they're going to do almost what we were doing. And Bernard answering except you don't know what Geometry is about. It's exactly the same thing. So why I'm saying this? Because okay, you could spend as much as money you want. The problem is to find the resources. And the resources are very precious talent because they are the one understanding the technology, understanding the industry we serve and understanding also how to make things. Whatever the things, is a car, is a plane, is a drug, and this combination is extremely difficult to do, extremely difficult. Why? Because you need -- I mean you do not have too much people on Earth having the ability to do this. That's point number one. Point number two, which almost recurring the discussion we had previously, how could we accelerate the cycle of the adoption of what we do. Maybe those technologies you are referring to, mix with our knowledge and know-how, could be a way against rather than to foster the adoption of the platform to come directly with the end result, which is a virtual twin. And if we come with the end result of the virtual twin, and we give the ability to continue to buy the platform and the software to edit the twin, to put their specificities, their own IP, I think we have a model which works both for our customers and for us. And the last comment I can make. The big difference between all the company you name, there is also one, we will never be the competitor of our customers. And it's -- trust me, it's a statement that many of the company you mentioned, they cannot take.

Yes, maybe one other idea. What we notice is more and more for the cloud. The customer -- we are the prescription for which cloud is under our platform, not the other way around. That's new. I've noticed that there are now new program car program, new even airplane program, Medidata clinical trial. Most of the case customer will select the cloud, we tell them to select. And I think this is going to be more and more true. So that's probably an explanation why some of those companies while there is nothing specific related to manufacturing or nothing specific related to domain expertise, they want to showcase to have a story. Otherwise, you just talk about computing capacity. What I noticed is that it might be wise for Google to use our virtual twin to do their Google Cloud. I don't think they do it with our software. I think they need a virtual twin of the cloud. And we are well positioned to do that. Now they might be fair from their side to say, if I am a customer to you, please use my cloud. That's another discussion related to the contractual arrangement. So we are going to be more and more prescription for the infrastructure.

James?

It's James Goodman from Barclays. A question on cloud actually and then a follow-up on subscription as a business model. The question on cloud, I mean, it generally is that it feels like your cloud strategy has really developed now at scale. OUTSCALE itself is clearly gaining a lot of traction. Centric was shown to be up to, I think, EUR 400 million or so by 2028. That's going to be a cloud business by that point. Yes, EUR 3 billion, when I think about that as a percentage of revenue. And I think about it as the manufacturing cloud as a percentage of your manufacturing revenue, it's still reasonably conservative and reasonably in line with where you expect 2025 to be. So can you talk about the moving parts there in terms of how you're thinking about the financial implications of cloud? And the follow-up question on subscription, it's obviously related, but you showed 15% of the software revenue being licensed in 2028. Every conversation I've had, with anyone working at Dassault, over the last 24 hours, or so has been around how your customers are demanding subscription, how you're driving a subscription shift, it feels like you could very easily put the foot down a little bit faster on that subscription transition. Why don't you take this opportunity to do so?

There is one thing I want to comment on cloud, maybe before you take over not related to the question exactly, but to the dynamic. In the sector we serve, customers are today spending incredible money under own infrastructure. Buying the equipment, having the right team. And they are -- it's more and more difficult for them to administrate well their own infrastructure. Very difficult. So I think what I noticed is there is a really dynamic where those who have built up their own trust that they can trust us, they go very fast in adopting cloud for the program, extremely fast. Question of weeks, which is -- and then you have also the category of customers where they have not made up their mind yet or they don't know what they're going to do with their human resources, which by the way, it's another topic. So this is a factor, which is surprising to us. We have concrete example at Renault, I could name others, the speed at which the program has gone, never seen before. So that's one parameter, which I think is a big one. And it's related to human also structure that they have. There is a second one, which is related so that it's about trust and about the way they really move to this new world. There is a second factor, which is also creating 2 groups. What I call -- what my friend Florence will low code, no code, use native ready-to-use solutions. For maybe the first time ever in our history, we see core program starting with almost zero customization. By the way, it goes quickly associated to the first point I just made. But that's a second factor, which is quite impressive when we look at it. There is a sub-factor, which is quite interesting, which is the fact that more and more customers are realizing with cloud that they can get the power of DevOps. Our current clients are getting new functionalities on the cloud every 6 weeks. What they deliver to their own users today, it's every 2 or 3 years. That's becoming creating another group of behavior, which is very, very impressive. We know which dynamic will win. And as long as we make those programs successful, those 3 factors are really -- but it's very difficult to estimate now, but now back to Rouven to address your question, but keep those factors in mind. They are very important. And I think Eric could talk to you more about those customers as well as Olivier. We see that it's an astonishing phenomenon.

No. So the only thing I would add, maybe to give you some connection to the numbers, the EUR 1-plus billion that we expect on cloud revenue growth from what we call that's the cloud for the 3DEXPERIENCE enterprise. It's also very differentiated because of what Bernard was saying, but I would add one point to it. We are not selling cloud apps. We're selling the platform approach and the ability with 5G and driving a lot of what our customers have been designing with our software that has to be managed in operation. So by nature, in order to drive to bring the world together and create unification, you have to embark the cloud. And that's what we are enabling with our platform. And the EUR 1 billion target we have set is something that we -- EUR 3 plus billion, it will be -- we will be close to 40% of our software revenue with cloud. But at that point in time, I think, is a reasonable and credible target from where we are right now from the current vantage point to go there, to continue the same growth pattern we have. But there is, of course, a potential to do better than that if we execute. And I think we have all the reasons to believe.

The last question was related to the percentage of license, right? Again, I want to open your eyes on this. Who says it will be the license the way you know it. If I'm telling you what we are calling upfront license is when we are creating dedicated cloud for our customers, right, and we are sharing the operation with them because we cannot operate, for example, for certain sensitive industry. You will probably call it dedicated or on-prem cloud. This model will stay. So why I'm saying this because many of our competitors, when they say they do cloud, some of them are selling on-prem license. Their customers are using them on the cloud. When we speak about the cloud, we are operating on behalf of our customers. It's a big difference. So you should see the splits on the part we are operating on behalf. And the part will be operated still by our customers. That's the best definition I can give to you.

Toby?

It's Toby Ogg from JPMorgan. A couple for me. So maybe just firstly on the cloud growth cadence, again, the CAGR to EUR 2 billion by 2025, low 20s and then the CAGR 2025 to 2028 for the EUR 3 billion plus is kind of more in the mid-teens. So I appreciate there will be a base effect there. But just anything else to consider in terms of divergences across the different products beyond 2025. And then just secondly, on the M&A side, thinking specifically about the positive contribution to EPS after 2 years and also the EUR 600 million to EUR 650 million operating contribution from M&A by 2028. Could you just give us a little bit more detail around some of the assumptions built into those numbers in terms of leverage and multiples and so on?

Okay. The first question is simple. It says larger than EUR 3 billion, okay? And I said, approaching 40% of software revenue, software revenue, we also gave you the number of EUR 8.6 billion. So you can model, yes. We try to be consistent, 20% growth in the cloud, and we project it into the future with all the levers. We have to put in place to grow faster and to put our strategy into action and take advantage of the opportunity. So we don't -- I also do not want to give too many numbers, right? And having it as a percent of I think gives you the orientation and you can make up your mind on where you want to position. But I think the baseline number is identified and that we have line of sight to and want to commit at this point. Now you remember the 5-year plan is on EPS level. We don't have a detailed 5-year plan on every element of the financial statement. It's impossible. So keep it, please, also with that in mind. As it relates to the M&A assumption, I believe that with the EUR 600 million to EUR 650 million of operating income contribution by 2028, we have a very good data point, right, to create the assumptions around. We also don't have the crystal ball to know exactly what the target is and how much of EBIT it will produce in year 1, year 2, year 3, right? And when it will be as well. These are things that we can't comment at this point in time, but I think it's valuable to understand that the EUR 600 million is probably double the size of what Medidata delivered. So as a base of comparison, with knowing that the interest and rate environment at the Medidata time was very different than it is right now, right? So there is a cost of financing that has to come into that. And so from that angle, you can create different scenarios. And also the EUR 600 million to EUR 650 million does not have to be necessarily one target. It can be multiple targets. And so there are many dimensions we can build around this to connect the dots. And I think Pascal said very clearly, we are not doing acquisitions for the sake of filling the gap. We are doing it for strategic purposes. And this is just a placeholder, right, that you, I think, to size the impact, as we did also in our last plan Pascal before. So it's consistent and it's I think as much as I can say.

We don't lack targets, by the way. We have a gigantic pipeline of target. So the question is making sure we see consumer.

Stefan?

It's Stefan Slowinski from BNP Paribas. Just wanted to ask about vendor consolidation, something we're hearing about in the market is in a more difficult macro environment, companies looking to not double spend on the same kinds of functionality. And given the breadth of the 3DEXPERIENCE platform and what you're doing in terms of planning and collaboration and customer pipeline management and workflow management, it seems like there's a lot of maybe point solutions that you could replace. Just wondering if you're speaking to the right people within the customers. Can you invest in sales to be speaking to the office of the CHRO or office of the CFO, or different points within the organization of your customers to speak to, to ensure that you can sell the breadth of the platform and help them make that case to replace some of those point solutions that maybe they're paying for that they don't need anymore?

I take it. It's a good comment. In fact, it's one of the benefits of the platform. Usually, our customers is here to -- they call it decommission or it starts with their home-grown system first. And then also the point solution, which are at some point of time, the best of breeds is always challenged with basically the cost of the integration, right? And there are certain domains where what we deliver is the performance, which is good to basically have the full scope of everything we do. An example of what I'm saying is in certain automotive sector or certain automotive players, they standardize all their simulations, capability and software and our solutions because they are seeing more value to be to have a unified platform, one single source of truth rather than the collection of sometimes good solvers, but difficult to maintain over the time. I think Eric could also tell you that some of the customers are putting this as a #1 request to justify the investment they're going to make with us. Could you prove to me that at the end, I will be commissions as much as applications? Because the saving by itself will fund the investment for the platform for a greater and a better value of what we do. So it's really happening. Are we speaking to the right person? I think on the direct sales force, the answer is yes. Because the platform game is a different game than the application game. And obviously, the decision makers are not the same. And the CFO are deeply involved, right, because at the end, it's a big check. Is it happening in all the indirect model yet? Could be discussed. Let's say, we could do better. We could do much better.

Okay. I think I have one last question. And I know Amit, you were raising your hand since quite some time, so I want to make sure you have the chance to ask a question. Here, the gentleman.

Amit Harchandani from Citi. Actually, my questions have been sort of touched upon, but I have some clarifications, please. So firstly, with regards to the question on free cash flow. If I look at your previous 5-year plan, it went from sort of EUR 800 million, EUR 900 million to EUR 1,600 million. Before that, it's gone from EUR 500 million to EUR 900 million. So because it sort of moved along with the EPS and profitability. So I would have expected the 1.6 to at least go to 2.4 or 2.5 if not to 3. So why the 2? Again, sorry to touch upon it, but it just stands out amongst all the other figures, which are -- and secondly, if I may. You've touched upon M&A, and again, touched upon cost of financing, which has clearly changed since Medidata. Could you at least give us a feel for are you committed to sticking to using only cash or debt and definitely not going down equity financing to carry out M&A? Or is there a net debt-to-EBITDA number that you're willing to work up to but not beyond that?

Okay. Thanks, Amit. Maybe I'll start with the first one. Okay. I think Pascal answered the question perfectly. I think if you use our existing framework, you can pretty much derive our operating cash flow and net cash flow. And so you're not wrong with what you're saying. Yes. The EUR 2 billion, again, I didn't put a date behind it. So you assume it would be 2028. That's not what I said.

It's an average.

It's an average. So that's the answer, yes. Now to your M&A question.

Well, first of all, we like the way the company is uncapped. We think the big value. And there is no reason why we should change that. You cannot say absolutely no, never, but it would be a different game. And we think there are many options that will be opened before we are forced to do something else. And I think we can create a strong dynamic on cash flow generation and really be smart in the second of those acquisitions, so we can take advantage of the integration in a fast pass manner. I think the track-record of Medidata was, I think, a good proof of that. I think the deleverage was relatively exceptional, I think. And I think it's just the beginning because we have not yet fully taken advantage of connection with other things, BIOVIA and then we have bioreactors, which we want to do, of course, also. So there are many options. And we will very much protect the anchor of the shareholder structure.

Okay. Thank you. I think we checked online, no further questions. I think at this point in time, I would like to go back to you, Bernard and Pascal for maybe some final words.

Well, first of all, I think I will let Pascal have the last word. So that's why I'm taking the first one. First of all, thank you very much. What I have to tell you is we have learned over the years, I have learned. We have learned with all of you over the years, really a lot. We see the relationship with all of you as a great way to question to look at the kind of things we could do better. We have always seen as those relationships has positive relationship to succeed. I say it sincerely after so many years, interacting with many of you. And I see also that for many companies, it's not the case. And the reason for us why it's so important is because of the previous question. We have a very solid family control structure. On listening from the outside, it is a way to listen about good ideas and to listen about good, negative remarks that we will try to turn around in a positive way. So for me, it has been a huge value to interact with you. Now I will not -- I will let Pascal, over on Team, interact, but I will also participate to observe what you write. So I will be able, in your closed room, to convey some of your observation as Chairman of the Board. I think it's my role going forward, and I want to thank you a lot for all the things you have done to help us develop our company, the way we've been able to develop it. Thank you.

Thank you, Bernard. Again, we didn't have the time to take all the questions, but Rouven and I will be on the road starting next week, right, for you, Rouven? So you will have a chance to meet some of you. And for sure, between now and the rest of the year, we'll have the opportunity to meet all of you, and you will have the time to follow up the questions. And the purpose of this Capital Market Day was not only to give you the insight for the next 2, 3 quarters. It was to give you the 20-year horizons to sequence this year in 5 years plan and to give confident and reasons to believe that the foundations are strong enough to make it happen, and I hope we succeed to convince you. Let's see.

Thank you.