DigitalBridge Group, Inc. (DBRG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Okay. Great. Thank you, everyone, for joining us. I'm Sami Badri from Crédit Suisse, and thank you for joining us for the communications conference today on day 2. So right now, we have Colony Capital coming in with Marc Ganzi, the CEO of Colony. Marc, thank you very much for spending time with us.

Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be here, Sami. Thanks for having me.

So Marc, I mean, you've done kind of an outstanding job in this, turning around a company that was more a multi-type REIT and now heading more into the digital infrastructure side of the spectrum. So as you look at the next levers to pull of the business, right, what are the next big things or the big levers that you want to pull to keep the transition going and keep people focused on what you're building going forward versus looking backward, which is kind of like some of the work you've had to do over the last 12 months was show people the path that you were on? And I'd love to expand from there.

Yes. Thanks, Sami, you're right. And it's been -- I've spent the last sort of 18 months talking to investors about how could we sell our legacy assets. And I think there was a little bit of [ suspended disbelief ] perhaps that we could get that done. And I think it started with the monetization of the industrial assets. It was a great year last year and the over $720 million of realizations we did in our OE&D portfolio, ultimately closing on the lodging assets, and then, of course, last week announcing the disposition and the transition of our OE&D portfolio. And really, what's left now is a lot less confusing story, right? We're now 80% rotated into digital, and who could believe that when we got together with Colony back in 2017, we announced our first fund, they were a $48 billion diversified AUM REIT focused, as you said, on a wide variety of different real estate asset classes. Today, we sit here with literally less than, call it, at this point, probably somewhere in the order of magnitude of $6 billion to $8 billion of legacy real estate assets that are almost finished being unwound and $36 billion of digital assets. So we've done an amazing job rotating over $80 billion of AUM in 2 years. It's been a pretty enormous journey. And as we like to say, it was sort of a tale of two cities. On one side, we were monetizing assets; the other side, we are raising capital and doing great digital deals. And now today, we have 22 digital businesses under the Digital Bridge portfolio today, and it's been an outstanding transition. What I've told investors is, I'm nowhere near satisfied with where we are, Sami. There's more work to be done. And what we will get done this year is, we'll finish the strategic review of our Wellness Infrastructure portfolio. We think, in total, that's about another $3 billion of AUM. We transitioned our mortgage REIT now to a totally self-administered REIT. We were the third-party external manager of that REIT. We've now internalized it. And Colony Credit has done great. I mean their share has been trading well north of $10 now. And we made the right decision, right, which was to give it a great management team and to be patient with that mortgage REIT. And now we're in a position where we can spend the better part of the next 2, 3, 4 quarters, thinking about an orderly wind down of that investment. And while we've been patient, the value in terms of the NAV has only increased for our shareholders. So finish the mission is about ultimately closing the OE&D assets, finishing the strategic review on the Wellness Infrastructure portfolio, which we're really pleased with how that's performing. As most people figured out coming out of the pandemic, one of the great winners has been life sciences. You've heard other public companies talk about this transaction to industrial logistics, life sciences and digital. For example, Jonathan Gray of Blackstone talks about those being 3 of the big thematics. And so we did sell our industrial portfolio to Blackstone. We kept our life sciences business going. It's performing really well. We believe we'll get a really good value for that when we monetize it. And where does that leave us? It leaves us with a little over $2 billion of liquidity, incredibly well armed, Sami, to play offense like we've been doing. And the way we continue to play offense is we'll continue to put capital behind our best people in our best companies. And it starts with what's on our balance sheet, which is DataBank and Vantage. Really excited about what's happening at DataBank in the edge computing space. We can talk more about that in this conversation topically, but DataBank has done an amazing job. And we're forecasting 8% to 9% net organic growth out of that edge computing business this year. And we're -- we think we'll hit somewhere between 3.5% to 4% growth on our core Vantage hyperscale portfolio. So our edge data center business and our hyperscale businesses, Sami, are performing incredibly well right now, and both those assets are on balance sheet. And what we've told investors is, look, with that $2 billion liquidity, everyone says, "When are you going to put it to work? How are you going to do it?" We're not in a rush. It's not a great time to be in a rush to deploy capital, particularly at some of these multiples and some of these valuations. Where we think we're finding success today, Sami, is in greenfield. You look at the stuff that DataBank and Vantage are doing, it's predominantly greenfield. All of our new hyperscale campuses that we're building between Europe, North America, Latin America and Asia, we have more demand than we know what to do with. Our leasing numbers are great. And on the edge computing space, Raul had his best quarter of leasing in the first quarter. Second quarter is setting up the same way. We've now integrated the zColo assets, putting 26 new markets on the map for essence. So things are really good in terms of the balance sheet assets, and I want to keep putting capital there. I believe we can build new edge data centers at DataBank. I think we can build new campuses at Vantage. And if we find the right opportunity, Sami, where we can use that $2 billion of liquidity, and we can marry that up with sort of 50% or 60% loan to value, it gives us somewhere between $4.4 billion and $4.6 billion of purchasing power. And I think that really is a strategic advantage for Digital Bridge going forward. And then on the investment management side, we've had a tremendous year. We've made 7 new investments out of our second fund. We've deployed over 43% of the second fund. Fundraising environment is great for us. We've been able to outperform our guidance in our investment management platform. So in terms of Digital Investment Management, last year, we delivered close to 90% FEEUM growth, and we forecasted 15%. We're forecasting growing FEEUM well above $17 billion this year, and the conditions are really good for us to continue to raise third-party capital. So as we raise more third-party capital, we can invest more of that capital. And that's really the place where investors are focused on right now is how do I grow Digital Operating? How do I grow our Digital Investment Management platform? And ultimately, investors look for one thing as you know, Sami, they look for growth. They want to know what's the fastest-growing digital REIT in the world today, and we'd argue to investors it's us. We've been able to grow a lot faster our digital business than other peer REITs, and we're going to continue to outperform our peer group well into '21 and '22.

Got it. Got it. So one housekeeping item. And then just we'll have a follow-up right after that. [Operator Instructions] So one follow-up, Marc, is you kind of hit 2 big things, right? The decision to deploy capital into the balance sheet-based businesses, where you mentioned DataBank, Vantage. And then you also talked about growing assets under management and the investment management arm. When we go into your Analyst Day, and this is coming up, I believe it's next week.

Yes.

When we go into your Analyst Day, what are some of the things that we should expect to see in here? And I have a follow-up after that. But yes, maybe we could just start off with that, if you have a little bit of a preview for people to kind of see it. And then I forgot actually one last item. Raul is actually on a panel with us in about 1.5 hours from now with 3 other -- 2 other CEOs in the industry. So I'll make sure to call them out on his record quarter and see what he says. But yes, anyway, sorry, Marc, go ahead on the preview of the Analyst Day.

Well, I think the Analyst Day is going to dive deeper into these 2 areas, right, how do we grow our balance sheet and how do we grow our digital IM business and what's the formula for doing that. And I think as we've been reintroducing the world to the new Colony Capital a.k.a. Digital Bridge, it was time for us to go a little bit deeper in terms of how we invest. And most importantly, Sami, how we've been stewards of people's capital for 27 years. This is not a new management team. And so the opportunity for investors to get to know this management team and understand the team that I've built and my partners that support me around the world is a really mission-critical ingredient to what we do. People are the secret sauce at Digital Bridge. We create alpha through our strategy and for our execution and something we've been doing for a long time, but investors have never gotten to know our management team as a public management team. So this is really the first time that we've been able to peel back the curtain and explain how we plan to invest the capital, how we plan to achieve outsized returns. And most importantly, this transition from an AUM model and a NAV model into an earnings-based model that has long-term cash flows and predictability, and most importantly, has sustainable long-term double-digit growth, which let's be honest, you just don't see that in other digital REITs anymore. Very few REITs offer you the opportunity to get double-digit organic growth, and that's something that we're delivering at Digital Bridge today and that we anticipate delivering well into our guidance beyond 2023. And so unpacking, we've given folks that marker, Sami, in 2023 on where we plan to be in terms of our digital earnings. And so it's putting those building blocks in place and letting investors be able to follow us in terms of how we build those earnings, how we build those long-term quality earnings. And that's a great story because we're investing as the digital REIT of the future. We're not investing just in 1 swim lane. We're not saying to investors, "Look, you have to just invest in macro towers because that's the best investment out there." We're arguing -- not arguing perhaps. We're making the case that the converged digital REIT, perhaps, will be the faster-growing REIT. And so we are growing faster than our peer group, and let's not suggest that we don't like Digital Realty's business model. We don't like American Tower's business model. We'd love both those business models. We're just saying that our customers, Sami, have fundamentally changed. How they're purchasing digital infrastructure services today has changed. And sort of the siloed approach being whether it's in retail colo or interconnection or macro tower sites, they want to be able to purchase those services in a converged format. And that's what the customers of the future are doing, whether they're tracking 5G or whether tracking cloud computing or edge computing or IoT networks, you have to really understand the whole playing field today to be able to perform for customers because networks are changing, Sami, as you know, faster than ever. And the architecture and the fabric of those networks is very different than it was 20 years ago or 27 years ago when I started pulling tower sites in Philadelphia in 1994. So the world's changed, and we've changed with it. And we've always had a simple rule, which is, you follow the customer. You listen to the customer very carefully in terms of what they're telling you. And that's what we've done a very good job of doing. And we're going to explain to investors how we take their capital, how we invest it, how we're great stewards of their capital, the people that do it, the process for how we do it, and ultimately, what it means in accrues to you, the investor, on how we ultimately get you the right returns.

Got it. Got it. So Marc, while you were going through that, we did receive an investor question, and it's kind of timely because of some of the news that came out next week, but I'm going to add a little bit more color to the question. And the question has to do with your philosophy on your portfolio companies and industry consolidation. So the question is, what is kind of like your take on industry consolidation? But I'll take this a step further and say, at Colony, you make direct investments or investments in the investment management arm, and you also deploy capital from your balance sheet into 2 different big vehicles, right? So in most cases, I guess, in the industry consolidation theme, people would look at that and say, what a great combination story that could exist there. However, they are being left separate. So Marc, I was hoping you could kind of unpack that for us, given that you are very involved across the spectrum of vehicles, asset types and different kind of combinations of deals.

Yes. No, it's a great question. It starts first and foremost with an investment framework and investment policy. And this is exactly what we will talk about at Investor Day next week is how do we triage opportunity, Sami, and how do we think about it? And where does it go? And what's the right home for it? What's historically happened is, if you were a tower company, historically, you couldn't look at a fiber deal. If you were a data center business, you couldn't look at a small cell or a CRAN hub, or you couldn't look at building a BTR, build-to-relo or other types of macro infrastructure. The great news at Digital Bridge today is, you don't -- we don't have to make that choice. An opportunity comes in to our investment team, which is now a global investment team operating from Singapore to London to New York to Boca to L.A., and we get the opportunity to say, there's a home for every digital opportunity inside of our format. And that's what makes us so unique. We don't have to choose, actually. We get the privilege of being able to look at it and say, "There is a great opportunity for this asset. It's either a new platform or it's something we can do in an existing platform. We can put it on the balance sheet." Ultimately, there's one global investment team, Sami, that works at Digital Bridge today on a global basis. We look at every opportunity that comes into the investment team. And based on the profile of that investment, we find the right home for it. So for example, if it's a control investment, if it's based in Europe and it has a certain return profile, we put that into our equity funds group, in the investment management platform. We looked at what we did with DataBank and Vantage, and really what governed us in making the decision for that data bank was an opportunity to take a 21% stake in DataBank, and it was not a control investment because we have our own -- we have capital that's at work in that business with some other investors. And so that didn't fit what we did in the fund, but it worked really well for the balance sheet. Same thing with Vantage YieldCo. As Vantage kept building more campuses and it began to outpace its capital, we said, "Look, why don't we recycle capital? Why don't we put our best stabilized data centers into a YieldCo, put it on our balance sheet, pair it with some external capital? Because at the end of the day, we were seeing returns closer to 10% to 12%. And our funds are targeting mid- to high teens, so that deal didn't fit the funds group, but it certainly fit on our balance sheet because it had approximately a 5.8% to 6.2% current cash yield, put it at a very low IRR." So that worked well for the balance sheet because we need to keep producing long-term predictable earnings for our investors. So what's great about the mousetrap that we've built today is, we have the ability to find homes for opportunities across the entire spectrum, not only the asset spectrum, but the return spectrum. We don't have to say no to things. And so when we look at the balance sheet, the balance sheet is really for those great long-term assets, where ultimately, we see an opportunity to create yield and to create permanency. Balance sheet is a permanent form of capital. Our funds group, typically, we're investing -- our average -- weighted average fund length duration is between 10 and 13 years. So those are certainly long-term capital information vehicles, but it doesn't quite have the same permanency that we can do when we place something on the balance sheet. We love what DataBank is doing. We see the edge computing thematic going for the next multiple decades. And so that's a great asset to put on balance sheet. The same way we think about cloud computing and hyperscale campuses. As Sureel continues to build more campuses at Vantage, we now have the conduit to place those assets once they're stabilized onto our balance sheet so that our public shareholders get the benefit of that yield and the permanency of those returns.

Got it. Got it. Thank you for hitting those points. While you were speaking, there was actually another question that came in, and it was not part of our prepared remarks, but it has to do with inflation. So because inflation projections are going up, how are you factoring in inflation being above average into some of the origination of the deals that you guys are underwriting and some of the deployment of capital decisions that you guys are making?

Yes. So -- and I'll tell you where inflation is hurting us today, Sami. It's certainly in the supply chain, and it's certainly at new construction starts. So whether it's new towers, new data centers, new fiber outs, we are feeling the pinch of the supply chain, and we are feeling the pinch of costs moving up. We don't see inflation in digital infrastructure being 4%, 5% forever. We think the supply chain will moderate and it will stabilize, and ultimately, pricing will come back down. And so there's a difference in nominal inflation and real inflation. Nominal is something that sits in D.C. that economists come up with. Real inflation is what my CEOs tell me is happening on the street and what's happening in ditch digging and tower construction and, ultimately, how we build data centers. I think that level of inflation will probably sustain itself for the next 3 to 4 quarters in terms of new construction starts. And ultimately, it's also reflected in our COGS, and it will be reflected in wages as well. So we see inflation being somewhat of a short-term speed bump from a real inflation perspective and, perhaps, from a nominal perspective, less so, but ultimately, it stabilizes. And where do we get -- where do investors get square? We get square by repricing our rents. We've had this conversation with all 22 of our CEOs around the globe. And it's the same conversation, which is, we're going to price rents accordingly, which is to be in lock, stock and barrel with inflation because we need to engineer the right returns. So -- and at the same time, other than the United States, most of our leases are CPI based. So we do have price protection, and we have inflation protection in theaters like Europe and Latin America and Asia. In the United States, as you know, a lot of the leases, particularly in towers, and to a lesser degree in fiber, have been based on a fixed rate, and a lot of our data center REITs -- our data center businesses and DataBank, you'll hear from Raul, he has some CPI protection and certainly has cost recovery as does Sureel, except in hyperscale, we do have a fixed escalator. So we got to keep our eye in it. It's something that we think about every quarter. And the way we recover is through the master leases. We recover it through our expense recovery and our TAM adjustments. We recover through our CPI-based escalators. And then certainly, we're getting new recovery in the form of -- in terms of where we're pricing new rents today.

Got it. Got it. Now we wanted to hit some of the spectrum of digital infrastructure investments you've had from data center, fiber, macro cell towers and small cells. You have 2 major data center businesses on your balance sheet that are very prolific front and center. But is there going to be a point in the future where you start bringing a small cell asset or a tower or fiber asset onto the balance sheet as well in a very comparable big way? Or do you have a different investment philosophy for why those asset classes should not be brought on to the Colony or to the Digital Bridge balance sheet?

Well, the good news is in the United States, we have 2 of the best private operators in terms of Vertical Bridge and ExteNet. So we're really lucky to have both of those platforms in our investment management business. And much like DataBank and certainly much like Vantage, we'd certainly love to have the quality of those assets on our balance sheet long term. Whether it happens or not is really a lot of different conditions have to sort of come into place for it to make sense. I think, first and foremost, we've always been very open and transparent for the last 3 quarters that we've been actively shopping for a U.S. cell tower asset for a while, not just looking at Vertical Bridge per se, but looking at other things that have been out there. There have been a number of things we've looked at. And ultimately, it just got priced to a place where we couldn't make the returns work. And what are we looking for? We're looking for a minimum sort of 3% to 4% current cash yield. We're looking for an IRR between 9.5% and 12% for U.S. towers. And then in small cells, we're looking for, ultimately, a stabilized yield somewhere between 6% and 8%, and we're looking for returns between 11% and 13% given the additional operational complexity that small cells have that macro towers don't. And on the small cell side, I would say that, particularly with ExteNet, they're growing really fast. And so they've had double-digit organic growth now ever since we bought that business over 5 years ago. And it's a CapEx-intensive business. We just haven't gone in a harvest mode yet. So as you can imagine, it's a business that has a significant amount of G&A. Because at any given time, we're in the midst of building between -- on an average calendar year between 2,500 and 5,000 nodes. So that's a lot of construction. That's a lot of ultimately getting coils in place, getting nodes in place and putting the fiber and obviously delivering a great five-nines experience for customers. Macro sites are a lot easier. That's why I think we've been sort of transparent that we'd love to put towers on our balance sheet. So we'll find the right opportunity to invest in towers on balance sheet. And ultimately, particularly as we think about what Raul is doing, he'll talk about it. Today, I'll ask him about his investment in edge presence. We really like the edge computing space at the tower level. And so Vertical Bridge and DataBank are working together with edge presence where we're putting those edge data centers at the bottom of cell towers. And we've got multiple deployments now. And you can see the beginning of that partnership between Vertical Bridge and DataBank, where there's a lot of synergy and a lot of opportunity that can be realized there. So look, down the road, certainly, it would be great to converge some of these assets together like a DataBank and like a Vertical Bridge, that would certainly be really topically interesting. But right now, the knitting has just continued to deliver the growth and to deliver, deploy the balance sheet in a sensible way. But the great news is we do have a lot of these great companies. And as they do get mature and they move into a mode where they are producing a free cash flow yield or a dividend, we can start to think about the right path to migrating it to the balance sheet.

Got it. Got it. I had another question coming from the audience. And the question is, how do you deal with rent roll downs when the leases are actually maturing, lending to hyperscalers? So after 9, 10, depending on term, could be even 15 years, what's kind of the playbook for how to deal with what could be a negative rent roll down, which is what some of the publicly-traded data center operators are dealing with? How is Colony going to deal with something like that?

Yes. It's actually not that hard. It's -- I don't want to reveal too much, but we've been really successful at Vantage in terms of renewing leases. And actually, it's a lot of the same playbook that Alex Gellman and I have used it, whether it was Apex or SpectraSite or Global Tower Partners in our Vertical Bridge, which is you got to get out in front of renewals. And I think that's something that we've been very capable at doing. And the tower business is you plan for renewals, you don't wait. Revenue assurance is really important to us. And we've had a bunch of renewals in different markets at Vantage, and we've successfully renewed a lot of those customers. Sometimes you do have to take a bit of a discount in terms of future rent. But ultimately, with the data center business, particularly hyperscalers are starting to learn, Sami, is these deployments are significant. I mean there's tens of millions of dollars of infrastructure and there's interconnection in place in these data centers. It's not easy to pick up 1,000 servers and just move them across the street. In theory, it sounds easy, but it really isn't. And so that cost of moving is the same arithmetic that we've been doing for 27 years in towers. So when a customer comes to say, "We're going to leave you, and we're going to go to that tower across the street." We go, "Okay, let's run the math on that. Okay, to uninstall the lines and antennas is $38,000. To move the base transmission equipment is another $15,000 to $20,000. Then you got to reinstall in terms of civil engineering, new line and antenna work, new BTU work. You've got to get new fiber interconnection. And by the time you've done it, it's $125,000 to deinstall/reinstall." So when you're renegotiating the rent, you say, "Okay, that's the cost for them to move. How do I amortize that against any rent reduction against any extension of term?" And so ultimately, you've got to have great management teams that have been there and done that and understand the arithmetic behind deconstructing a facility, reconstructing a facility and that cost to tear down and the cost to going off-line. Now admittedly, it's different in the cloud world, but it's the same. The same things that we've been doing for 27 years in those same learnings, Sureel has been able to learn from a great group of 21 other CEOs that have done it before. So Vantage has had a high incidence of renewals, very strong renewal rates, better than our public peers. And I would say that the decline in revenue has not been as precipitous as we thought it was going to be. So I think we've done a good job of also having a significant book of new business with a lot of the customers that are renewing with us today. That's certainly helpful. When you've got a lot of dots on the map, and you're talking about a deployment in Warsaw and you're talking about deployment in Milan, you're talking about deployment in Zurich, meanwhile, you're renewing a lease in Santa Clara, you're renewing a lease in Quincy, you're renewing in Quebec City, ultimately, having great landlord relationships and great tenant relationships and understanding the matrix of how to extend those leases against the cost to move is -- there's a little bit of science, but there's also some artistry at work. And I think we've figured that out a while ago, and we've been able to apply those learnings into the hyperscale businesses that we own today.

Got it. Got it. I wanted to pivot a little bit and talk about some of the more recent deals, including Landmark and Mexico Telecom. So maybe just broadly speaking, what is the execution playbook when we think about some of those newer investments that are coming into the company and at least into focus for you, what are some considerations you're taking? And maybe we could just start there.

Well, I think we've made 3 investments in the last couple of weeks that I think we're pretty excited about. One is a partnership with Mike Fries and his team at Liberty. We're really excited about what's happening in Europe. Europe is so much more dense than the U.S., Sami. And so bringing those compute resources to the edge of the network and, ultimately, helping mobile operators marry up the RAN and bringing that adjacent to where compute is happening is very interesting. And having a series of interconnected assets where we have, ultimately, edge applications and also partnering with mobile operators as well and bringing the marriage of that together is really what AtlasEdge is about. So we've got over 120 locations in Europe. We're pretty excited about some of the conversations we have with customers, and we've got a great management team that we put in place there. And it's really taking a bit out of the playbook of what Raul has done in the U.S., once again, translating those learnings where it's worked and bringing it to Europe and applying it, and I'm very excited about that. I'm excited to partner with Liberty, and that entire team is great. Charlie Bracken and Mike Fries, they're just -- they're absolute pros, and they understand where the puck is going versus where the puck is. And so that recognition of the fact that their network had to change and us helping them evolve their network, it's pretty exciting. So we expect a lot more to come in terms of the discussion of where edge computing is going. And it's early -- very, very early innings in edge computing in Europe. We think if we were playing a 9-inning baseball game, we're kind of in the first inning of edge compute in Europe. So that's pretty exciting to be there early. You mentioned Landmark...

Actually, Marc, sorry. Before you start on that, we actually had another question come in, which I think could thread into your response. And it is just walk us through the attraction of the Landmark ground lease portfolio. And then just how you came to the agreement with Landmark's management team to come in to $13 per share with the existing management team? Sorry, sorry to cut you off, but maybe just integrating and hit 2 birds with one stone there.

Sure. I was going to talk about Landmark next. So no, I've known Tim Brazy for coming up almost close to 20 years. And have been a big fan of his work, and we've stayed friends through the years, just industry friends. And as I watched him grow his business, what was interesting as a public format, they really were sort of somewhat actually capital-constrained oddly. And because of their structure, their structure was really complicated. If somebody could solve their structure, bring them private, and ultimately, consolidate the portfolios, that could be a really interesting value play. So we see a lot of value in what Tim has done. And we've seen a lot of value, most importantly, in the origination of what he's doing in terms of originating paper in terms of ground leases and mobile infrastructure, which we have a place for that. He's ultimately originating paper under data centers. We understand that business. We've got more places where we can help him and grow that vertical. He has a very interesting business where he's acquired Eastman's under billboards. We have a large business in Europe called Wildstone that does that incredibly well, so we can help grow that vertical as well. And then most interestingly, they've been one of the leaders in aggregating ground lease space under renewable sources of power. And given our stance on ESG, and where we're going with renewable energy to all of our digital infrastructure, that's a space I have a lot of interest in. And we obviously want to grow that renewable portfolio because, ultimately, how we're sourcing renewable energy and the partnerships we've chosen to get Digital Bridge, obviously, totally compliant with our goal to get to net zero by 2030, we've got to continue to work with renewable sources of power. We obviously want to be a landlord of choice under some of that real estate as well because it supports our digital thesis of where we're going. And so Tim understands that business and was early on a jump on it. So I think it's a combination of uncomplicating Tim's world, providing the business capital, then, of course, Landmark having the full purview of buying land under digital infrastructure. Nobody has -- owns more private digital infrastructure than us. So we have a logical home for him to go source new land deals. And so this is really one of those assets where, when it's in our hands, we can just do a little bit more with it than others could given our ecosystem.

Got it. Got it. Well, Marc, we're rounding out on time. Thank you for answering these questions. We had a lot come in today in today's chat, we didn't even ask half of my questions. So -- but look, we're looking forward to learning a lot more at the Analyst Day next week. Thank you very much for participating with us.

Thanks, Sami. Really good to see you. Look forward to doing this in person than I hope later this year.

Absolutely, absolutely. All right. Thank you very much.

Thanks, Sami. Take care.

Bye.