DOF Group ASA (DOFG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to the quarter 1 financial presentation for DOF ASA. My name is Mons Aase, I'm the CEO. And together with me is Hilde Dronen, our CFO. The front page is showing Skandi Vitoria and Skandi Niteroi recently were awarded 2 3-year contracts with Petrobras. Niteroi are expected to go online after an acceptance later this month, and Vitoria is still working in Mozambique and are expected to go on online later this summer. Next page, please, and the page after, yes. So then it's the financial highlights for first quarter. So that we have in the revenue of close to NOK 2.2 billion and an EBITDA of NOK 767 million, so better than last year. We had an EBIT of NOK 321 million and a profit of NOK 824 million. Good to note here is the net currency and derivatives and unrealized gains. And as we are writing in the report, the currency movements have had an opposite effect so far this year. So this will fluctuate going forward as well. Hilde will comment more on the numbers later in the presentation. Then on the restructuring of our debt, we are still discussing with lenders and no solution is in place. The market has improved. We will talk more about the market later on. But we are not in a position to pay the debt without a significant conversion of part of the debt into equity and thereby continue as a going concern. Standstill agreements are signed until end of May. Then we have some highlights on the next page from operations. So utilization of the fleet was 82% first quarter compared to 67% same quarter last year. We had fairly good performance in the Atlantic and the Brazil Subsea regions. And then we had variable [ or poor ] performance in APAC and okay performance in U.S. So a mixed quarter for the regions. The DOFCON fleet of 6 pipelayers we own together with Technip had a good performance, though a bit lower utilization than last year. We were impacted also this quarter by COVID, especially in Brazil, where we had outbreak on several boats in quarter 1 in January and part of February. So quite high cost and off-hire due to the outbreak. The tender activity is higher and still high, and we -- because it's a sign that the market is picking up in some segments and some regions. The fleet now comprises 55 boats, which were 47 owned. We have agreed to sell 4 boats both by the end of the quarter and 3 of them are now delivered. We had 1 vessel in lay-up by end of quarter 1 and still have the same vessel in lay-up today. The backlog by end of quarter was NOK 14.6 billion so that -- and secured backlog, here is something wrong. Backlog for quarter 2 here. So the backlog for quarter 2 is NOK 2.2 billion. So it's a fairly good backlog for quarter 2 this year. Remaining in '22 is NOK 5.5 billion. And then you see the graph below where it shows the backlog going forward. So we say that the summer season for the Subsea fleet is more or less covered apart from a few months on a boat or 2 and then it's a high backlog for the PSVs. And the anchor handlers, of course, we will look at the next page, but of course, worth mentioning is the award by Petrobras on 4 of the boats so building backlog on the anchor handling side as well. So next page shows the main contract we won in the quarter. So Mongstad PSV extended with Equinor for 3 years commencing then in October this year on the new rate. And then Vega got extended 2 years and has commenced on the new terms on the 17th of May. Kvitsøy was extended with Shell U.K. for a year, and she commenced in April. Then we have won quite a few contracts both oil and gas and renewables for few of the boats, Acergy, Constructor and Hera, and securing a high backlog for Acergy and the Constructor through, I would say, quarter 2 and quarter 3. And then we need to find some more work done in October, November for these boats. Acergy as well, 170 days on a construction work here in the North Sea. And then we are building -- Constructor now in SURF where the Constructor will go to Gabon for VAALCO on the Etame field and start there on later -- for this later this month and expect to be back again in quarter 4. And in South America, we -- this is old news, of course, but we had -- we won some work for the Constructor in Trinidad giving her a very high utilization in quarter 1. And then, of course, it's the large contract awarded by Petrobras where Norskan and DOF Subsea got 3 plus 2-year contract with Petrobras for 4 boats, including ROVs from DOF Subsea. So securing, of course, then a good backlog for those boats in the next few years. In APAC, the largest contract we won was a 3-year contract in Australia with Exxon for PSV. We will use the vessel called Skandi Darwin that we have on bareboat she will commence then there on early July in Australia. Then we also won an important contract with Woodside for the Hercules and around 120 days on this job securing -- starting then in July, August and securing almost 100% utilization then from July, August to end of the year. Then next page, please. So this is in our slide, we have updated a bit showing to you on this slide this quarter is that we show the number of people and the vessels in each region. So we can see that absolutely largest region for us is South America, where we have operating 24 -- 25 boats as we speak and have close to 1,900 employees mainly then in Brazil, but also a few then in Argentina. The next largest is the Atlantic region, where we have operated 17 boats and close to 1,000 employees. The third one is APAC, where we have today operate 8 boats and then close to 800 employees. And then North America where we operate today 5 boats. We have 2 PSVs in Guyana. We have Skandi Vinland in Canada and then we operate charter in 2 [ St. John's ] vessels, operating mainly in the U.S. [ going forward ]. We have around 250 employees in that region. Next page, please. Yes. We have -- wanted to have a few words on this project. This is, let's say, very recent pictures. So the Hywind Tampen project, it is the largest floating wind farm so far globally, are being installed as we speak. It's a project we won together with Kvaerner in a joint venture a few years back where our work scope include project management, engineering, we assemble the wind turbines in [indiscernible] and Bergen. And we installed all the mooring systems and tow the units to field and then we hook up and install them out to field. So the picture here is showing from the left-hand side, it shows on Skandi Skansen loading the suction anchors that she has been installing and will install all of them in May. And then the next one shows the first assembly -- complete assembled unit close to 11. And then you see this Skansen again loading the chains. So it's a milestone project for DOF, and of course, an important track record in what we believe in the future will be an important market for us. Of course, we don't expect big jobs to go offshore before -- after 2025. But of course, it's going to be tender activity next year and the following years. So it's done towards the end of the decade. We hope and believe that this will be a growing and a larger market for us in the future. So a bit proud of this project. Of course, it's good for us that we are on board on this and build a track record for it. Next page, please. Yes, I forgot to mention at the start that we will invite for questions at the end of the presentation. [Operator Instructions] And it's now possible to, I understand, to ask normally the questions, you have to send the questions through this chat function. And we have some received some questions already that we will. [Operator Instructions] This is just showing the value driver results in quarter 1, I don't go through them all. But of course, we have an ambition to be among the best, if not the best, on ESG in our industry and work hard on that every day. And so this shows the results last year and any quarter [ on ]. So I don't go through then. Then, please, the next one. Then it's Hilde Dronen. So please, Hilde, I leave the floor to you.

Thank you. So if we take the main financial highlights for first quarter. The numbers already mentioned by Mons, an EBITDA of NOK 767 million versus NOK 492 million same quarter last year. And here, you see the split in the average utilization, which is higher on all the segments. However, the performance and margins varies among the segments. And that is very clear when looking at the EBITDA, the DOF Subsea portion of the EBITDA this quarter was 78% compared to 63% first quarter last year. The split in EBITDA is close to NOK 600 million in the DOF Subsea and NOK 168 million in DOF Supply. And DOF supply, that is the earnings from DOF Rederi and Norskan. And as you can see, it has been a high utilization, both in DOF Subsea and on the DOF Supply fleet. Within the PSV segment, we have agreed to sell 3 vessels during the quarter, and 1 vessels has been layered. One of the sale has been completed by end of March. The 2 other vessels was -- other sales was completed in April. We had received a high utilization, but the earnings has been impacted by volatile earnings in the North Sea because we had more vessels compared to last year exposed in the North Sea spot market. In Brazil, we had a stable operation and 1 vessel has partly been in lay-up by off-hire. But this fleet has also been impacted by a COVID-19 outbreak, especially in January and February. We have 1 vessel that has operated in the North Sea spot market, which started pretty slow and improved towards end of the quarter. In the Subsea segment, 1 vessel has been agreed sold. And as already mentioned by Mons, there has been variable performance and utilization in the regions. A slow start in Asia Pacific, and better performance in Atlantic in Brazil. PLSV fleet has had stable operation, good performance, but reduced utilization compared to last year. And that's mobilization of 1 vessel for a contract. So if you go to next. Here, you see that the total P&L, the EBITDA already mentioned. We have an operating profit of NOK 321 million versus NOK 45 million last year. And the main variance is, as you can see, the -- on the depreciation is a slightly higher impairment last year. The only reason why we have impairments this quarter is due to a significant strengthened BRL to U.S. dollar, which has impacted both the EBIT and the financial result this quarter. And the reason why it has impacted the impairment is because we had to recalculate the value in use, and with strengthened BRL, that impacted the value in use calculation negative. So it's only the anchor handler fleet that has been impaired this quarter. If we look at the broker estimates, they have been more or less stable, is a slight increase within the PSV segment, and more or less 0 movement on the other parts of the fleet. And the finance cost is quite high this quarter. That is due to interest costs during the standstill period. Even though we don't pay any interest and amortization for the vast majority of the debt, the cost is still high and higher compared to last quarter -- last year. And the unrealized gain is more or less the strengthened BRL and it comes from the Brazilian activity, and close to NOK 900 million represent the unrealized gain and loss from Brazil. I think I go into next because then we are at the segments. And on the PSV segment, we have had a good utilization, but the margin has been lower compared to last quarter mainly due to volatile earnings and utilization in the North Sea spot market. The gain from sale of assets, that's NOK 11 million compared to NOK 29 million last year. This represents 1 vessels because the 2 others were delivered in this quarter. So that gives an EBITDA of NOK 17 million versus NOK 41 million. Depreciation, more or less the same. No impairment. And a net negative EBIT of minus NOK 10 million compared to NOK 2 million last year. Looking at the anchor handler, you can see the same. The operating revenue has been higher. We have achieved a higher utilization, but the margins is lower. So we end up with more or less the same EBITDA as last year. That is partly due to more exposure for 1 vessel in the North Sea spot market. On the depreciation and impairment, that is already commented. So that gives an EBIT of NOK 44 million (sic) [ minus NOK 44 million ] versus NOK 53 million. If you go to the Subsea, we see a significant increase in gross revenue, NOK 1.7 billion versus NOK 1.2 billion and an operating profit, EBITDA, of NOK 629 million versus NOK 339 million. And depreciation -- after depreciation, we had ended up with a net result of NOK 375 million versus minus NOK 10 million last year. So as you can see from this these numbers that the main performance this quarter is the Subsea segment. And it also illustrated by the portion of the EBITDA, 83% versus 69%. So if you look at the Subsea -- DOF Subsea segment on the next slide. DOF Subsea report in 2 segments, that's the Subsea IRM (sic) [ Subsea IMR ] projects, mainly project contracts, short-term contracts and it has our engineering and subsea project activity. That represents 17 vessels operating, of which 3 are hired in from external parties. Two of them have -- are included in our P&L this quarter. It's [ 553 employees ], that is a significant increase from first quarter last year. And you can see the margin is 23%, giving an EBITDA of NOK 262 million. The backlog from this part is NOK 5 billion. Looking at the long-term chartering, which represent 8 vessels in operation in first quarter. And of course, here you see a very different margin because it's time charter earnings and giving a margin of 73%. And that's just a NOK 337 million of the DOF Subsea EBITDA this quarter and a backlog of NOK 5.2 billion, of which the main portions come from the DOFCON JV. So if you go into next. On the balance sheet, it's no big events since year-end. You can see that the noncurrent assets -- long-term assets, is more or less the same. We have the vessel sales that has been closed or completed this quarter, represent 2 vessels, and has not had a big impact on our balance sheet. Looking at the current assets, we have slight increase in receivables and the cash is more or less at the same level as year-end. Main reason for increase in receivables, that is a higher activity within the project business, which is -- and increased demand in -- within the working capital. If you go to the equity, the equity is still negative even though we had a positive result of NOK 124 million this quarter. And that, of course, impacts the going-concern assumptions. The long-term ability -- noncurrent liabilities of NOK 3.5 billion, that represents the debt of our portion of the debt in the DOFCON JV and some lease debt in DOF Subsea. All other debt is classified as short term due to the ongoing debt restructuring of the group and the short-term standstill agreements that we have, which matures by end of this month. So if you go to next on the cash flow. The net cash from operating activity is NOK 300 million more or less at the same level as first quarter last year. So even though we have had a significant better operating profit, higher earnings in this quarter versus last quarter, the cash flow is not much higher or more or less at the same level as last year, meaning cash flow from the operating activities. And that is due to an increased activity within Subsea project and higher activity and higher demand in working capital and higher receivables. The net interest paid is NOK 129 million. If we were to pay normalized interest, that number will be between NOK 300 million and NOK 400 million on the current debt in the company. So due to standstill, the interest payment is low. Looking at the net cash from investing activity, which is a net negative number of NOK 41 million, and that is impacted by sale of assets. NOK 33 million is 1 PSV sold in the quarter and the other of NOK 95 million. That is a vessel that was agreed sold last year and that sale was completed in January this quarter. The purchase of tangible assets is basically docking of the fleet, and as you can see, it's more or less at the same level as last quarter. Net cash from finance activity is NOK 300 million, and it's higher from previous year. And that includes normal debt service in the DOFCON JV. We pay some amortization and interest in the Brazilian entities. We have some leases that we have normal debt service on. And of course, we have paid down debt on vessels sold in the quarter. So then we end up with cash more or less at the same level as last year. So if we go into next. Here is our historical performance. And as you can see, a significantly better EBITDA compared to last year and also a better margin that mainly come from the Subsea activity. But the cash flow is also impacted by an increased activity within this segment. Total current assets of [ NOK 33.5 billion ], approximately. You can see that the equity is still negative. Noncurrent debt already commented, and -- where the vast majority is short-term due to debt -- ongoing debt restructuring within the group. So if you go into next, if you also see on the longer term -- longer trends. Here, you can see that the last 12 months revenue is increasing compared to the 3 last years. You see that the EBITDA in the last 12 months has improved. The backlog is more or less at the same level as we had at the same time in 2021. So the last 12 months backlog is around -- or current backlog, sorry, is around NOK 14.6 billion. So at the end, some words on the ongoing restructuring. So if you go to the next. As we are stating in our financial report, as we have done the previous 7 quarters, is that the group's financial position is not sustainable and the equity is lost. It's approximately NOK 19 billion of the group's debt that is part of the standstill agreement. And even though the market has improved, we need to restructure the debt in the group. We currently have standstill agreements with 91% of the secured lender within the DOF Group, excluding DOF Subsea; and 95% of the secured lender in DOF Subsea, excluding DOFCON, which is not part of the debt restructuring. The BNDES loan facilities in Norskan Offshore Ltda. and DOF Subsea Brasil are being served according to a refinance agreement that was signed in February 2020. And that means that we pay soft -- or lower amortization on this part of the debt. Already mentioned several times during this presentation, the standstill agreements are applicable until the 31st of May. But the DOF Subsea bondholders, they have an ad hoc group that has the authority to extend the standstill agreement until end of September. The current restructuring proposal that is being discussed with the lenders include conversion of a significant amount of debt to equity and also softer terms on the group's loan facilities. DOF is the guarantor for the debt of several of the subsidiaries. And one of them is DOF Rederi where the outstanding current debt is higher than the value of the fleet. And this company does not generate sufficient cash flow to service the outstanding debt. Another subsidiary is the DOF Subsea. DOF Subsea has secured lending and unsecured lending. The DOF Subsea cash flow is improving and is better than in DOF Rederi, but not sufficient to serve both the secured and unsecured debt. And due to dependency on the DOFCON JV and the fact that DOF ASA guarantees for its subsidiaries, all conversion of debt has to be done into equity in DOF ASA as holding company in order to continue for the group as a going concern. We have a constructive dialogue with our creditors with the motivation to secure a long-term and robust financial solution. But a final solution is not yet in place. So then I give the word to you, Mons.

Thank you, Hilde. A few words on the markets and outlook. So this is from a macro perspective. Of course, we see oil price has increased. This is restored. We see the CapEx -- offshore CapEx are expected to increase, and we see also the offshore wind installation are expected to increase going forward. Of course, that is mainly fixed near term that has a limited effect on the DOF activity. But all in all, at least I expect a stronger market in '22 than in '21 and then a bit growth into '23 as well. So the macro looks positive for our industry. On the next slide, it's more or less on vessel demand. And what we see, of course, is that the activity and the demand from -- in '22 compared to '21 is up. And I guess, we see that in the markets right now that -- and you saw that from quarter 1 in DOF that utilization are increasing for the fleet. Then it's a more modest growth than in oil and gas expected between '22 and '23. The next one shows it on vessel types, please. So here, yellow is anchor handlers and we see decent growth between '22 and '21. And of course, this is all type of anchor handlers so it could be a bit misleading as we are only operating the very high end of that segment, but growth. And you see the same on red one, the PSVs, and also on the offshore construction vessels. So we see also on this that we choose to increase demand and higher activity in all segments, yes. But then we also see that the growth between '23 and '22 is more modest than -- if they are right, we see a slight decrease on the PSV side. When we look at it from the DOF stance, the markets, the next slide please. So of course, we have [ BA ] people around the globe, and of course, this is a more view from the DOF side. As we saw on the earnings, on the PSVs in quarter 1 that the market fairly slow than in the spot market in quarter 1. It has picked up the last few months and we also see the same trend on the term rates where they are going higher. So we expect a good summer season in North Sea for -- in the spot market and we expect the term rates to stay on a higher level than we have seen in the last few years. In the anchor handling market, the activity in Brazil, on the entire Brazil fleet, it's high utilization and we expect that to continue that Brazil will be busy going forward. In the North Sea, in the spot market, we have seen a volatile market so far. It was weak in January, February, stronger in March and then I have to say a bit disappointing down in April and so far in May where the market has not been according to our expectations. So we also saw that on the earnings on the few boats. So you have an anchor handling spot market that they have been not very high. But we do expect a stronger market in, let's say, the North Sea summer season from May and onwards. So far, the spot market has not been very good in May, but we -- and the reason why we expect high utilization and rate is because there are quite a few projects in the pipeline in the North Sea in the season. So we do hope and expect that the earnings will improve the next few months. On the Subsea side, we have seen high activity in our own fleet in Brazil and in the Atlantic region, which we define as the North Sea and the [ Mid and West ] Africa. And we ourselves have achieved our utilization and we see project pricing increasing. And we expect that to continue the next few quarters. Of course, the winter season is always a question, but at least quarter 2 and quarter 3 looks promising for that fleet. In the North America, we do expect also good activity in the next few quarters. And we see a trend that the rates are picking up there as well. In the APAC region, we have seen a slow start. We have had low utilization on the few boats we have had in APAC and also now in April we had not high enough utilization. But then as I said earlier in the presentation, we expect a stronger performance in APAC from -- in second half and especially from [ rest ] and onwards. So let's say a positive trend, but not a mixed start of the year and still remains to be seen, especially on the anchor handling side in the North Sea. But it's going to be how the years pan out. So far a bit disappointing. As mentioned earlier, we have a backlog of NOK 2.2 billion for quarter 2. So it's a fairly high backlog. So let's say, most of the capacity is secured and sold. And for the remainder of year, NOK 5.5 billion, which also is pretty high compared to the expected turnover. On guidance, we are expecting second quarter this year to be better than second quarter last year. Then on the financial side, Hilde ran through that in detail. And we just want to, once again, say that we have a good dialogue with the lenders and they all progress, but no solution is yet in place. And we also want to emphasize that the debt restructuring currently discussed include a significant amount of debt being converted to equity. That was the last slide we had. Then we will try to answer the questions we have received on the chat.

We have -- I'll start with asking Hilde a question here we have received. The question is what parameters have changed the last 3 months in relation to the restructuring/conversion of debt. Hilde, can you please answer?

I will. And just repeating what I just said through the presentation and what is also stated in our financial report is that even though the market has improved, we still need to reduce the debt in our group. The DOF Group has a complex structure. We have some subsidiaries that has a sustainable balance sheet and we have some subsidiaries that don't. That is still the fact even though the market has improved. And as I said through our presentation to just give you an example, DOF Rederi where DOF ASA is guarantor for the full debt. That company has a higher debt than the value of the fleet, or should I say, a significant higher amount of debt than the value of the fleet. So in an improved market and if the market value increases, they have to increase significantly to ensure that DOF Rederi has a sustainable balance sheet. This is the company where we have the oldest fleet. It mainly includes PSVs and anchor handler. And we don't see that this company in near future or going forward will have a sufficient cash to serve the current outstanding debt. So in this company, the debt has to reduce. And as long as DOF ASA is guarantor, any conversion of debt to equity has to be done in the holding company. Another example is DOF Subsea who -- this company has a better cash flow. They have improved their earnings going forward. As you saw from our presentation, a large portion comes from the Subsea project activity where the working capital demand is much higher than when you hire out the vessels on a time charter contract. So it's very important for this company to have a solid balance sheet. And on the current earnings, this company does not have sufficient cash to both serve the secured and unsecured debt. It's very important that DOF, as a holding company, continue controls the ownership -- have the ownership in this company because this is the most valuable part of the group. Therefore, any debt conversion has to be done at the holding level. So this was a long answer to this question. So even though the market has improved, we still need to reduce the debt within the group and the way it has to be done is the conversion of debt to equity.

Thank you, Hilde. You're not finished?

No. I'm finished.

Thank you. The next question we received is, can it be expected to see appreciation of the vessel values in quarter 2 based on the contracts for the 4 anchor handlers plus their long-term contract or the extension of the Skandi Africa? The answer to that is that potential appreciation will be based on updated broker values by second quarter, and of course, the value in use calculations we do. So we do that every quarter and we have not done that for second quarter. Then we have one question. Why can not DOF do what Eidesvik Offshore did with their vessel Viking Neptun? Of course, it's -- we cannot comment or we don't have in-depth insight to what Eidesvik did with Viking Neptun. What we can say, of course, is that we, of course, sell boats when we think that is the right thing to do based on what's the vessel's availability, it needs to be available to be sold, and also of course, the price offered by any potential buyers. The last -- we have one more question, which is what is the real reason for all the extensions in the restructuring process? You might answer that, Hilde.

Yes. The DOF Group has a complex financial structure, meaning various subsidiaries with different lenders, creditors in the various subsidiaries. That's 1 reason why it has taken so long time to get this in place. The other reason is that we have a large exposure with Brazilian lenders because we have built so many vessels in Brazil with local funding. And that is another reason why it has taken so long time. Brazil is very complicated. It's very bureaucratic. . So this is the 2 reasons why it has taken so long. And we need all on board. Otherwise, we will not succeed on the restructuring. And then we have received some questions online. Some of them might have been answered already. So should I start, Mons, or will you?

No. You can start, please, if you want. Yes.

Yes. One question is why has the company not listed DOF Subsea, and by listing of DOF Subsea, reduce the debt in DOF ASA. And the rest part of the question is will the EBITDA be above NOK 2.5 billion in 2022? We cannot comment on our future earnings. As you have seen, we comment on what we expect in the next quarter. But what I can say that if we have an earning of NOK 2.5 billion in the group, that is not sufficient to cover normal amortization and interest on the current debt in the group. And bear in mind that we have various subsidiaries with various exposure. And on the listing of DOF Subsea, that would, of course, be a very good initiative but that is not possible with a company with an ongoing debt restructuring.

Thank you, Hilde. We have a question, what's the reason you can't pay debt? Does all the offshore companies that have pretty much same debt but way less income? The reason here and I don't -- I can't, of course, comment what other companies pay and don't pay. As you saw from the quarter 1, and Hilde ran through the cash flow for the group, with the earnings in quarter 1, we are on a very limited payment of interest cost and also a very limited payment of, let's say, installments. We are not building cash. So I think it might be that the companies you referred to has gone through a restructuring where they have agreed a softer profile on their debt. So of course, as you see, even though with NOK 747 million operational EBITDA in quarter 1, we are not building cash even though we have very reduced installment payments and very reduced interest payments. Then we have one more question, which is market and values have improved. How will could resume -- how will -- or could reverse impairment affect future results [ that it ] will get positive. I think we already answered that by the previous question and we will say we do look at this every quarter, and that we will see now. However, Hilde mentioned that broker values in quarter 1 compared to year-end was more or less flat. And we will do -- get new estimates by end of second quarter and also do the value-in-use calculation and then we see how that will pan out going forward. Then we have one question registered at the book equities on paper lost. First, that the ships' prices are increasing and newbuild prices are on all-time high. Have you done a recent value-adjusted equity exercise or a [ broker pricing ] of the fleet? And as we said, we do that every quarter. And we will see, of course, the next few quarters how that develops. Then we have another question, which, I guess, I ask you, Hilde. Why is large haircut of the debt needed. From [ promote ] side, it seems like DOF EBITDA and cash flow is higher than, for example, [ Solstad ] with the same debt burden. With improved market condition, why could you not agree with bondholders to raise shareholder equity in a market as [ PDS ] did: postponed all payments, pay interest and say both to shareholders and bondholders until market improves.

Yes. I think I've partly answered that already. Just as it's a question about [ Solstad ]. This quarter, 80% of the EBITDA comes from DOF Subsea, and DOF Subsea is more than OSV owner. It's a project company and the capital requirement for this type of operation is higher than purely time charter revenue. That explains the difference. And I can see, there is a question around [ PDS ] here. And as far as I can remember, this was some covenant requirement, a debt that matures next year. The debt in DOF Group has matured. It matured already in 2020. So I don't see any comparables there. But the main -- what's complex in the DOF Group is that, as I said, it's various subsidiaries with various creditors. The exposure is different in the various subsidiaries. And the best way of protecting the group and also the shareholder values is to keep the group together.

Thank you, Hilde. Then we have a question. Will the new anchor handling contracts in Brazil affect the performance of the DOF anchor handling segment? And it's a bit difficult to answer that question. Of course, we haven't -- we have commented contract value, and of course, it will give utilization going forward. But of course, some of the boats coming off contracts now have had contracts -- old contracts with very high earnings and then some of them coming off has had lower rates. So we don't expect a very major increase in earnings in that segment. But of course, the alternative will be to not have contract, which will have been not good at all. So I don't think we commented more than that. Then we have one question, what is the book value of Skandi Foula. I don't know, Hilde, if you have...

No. I don't have that at the top of my head. So if you don't mind, I'll send it directly to the question here-- who has asked the question. So I'll send it in a separate mail. I don't have it on the top of my head.

And then the next question is what does the significant amount of debt mean? How much is this in money? And I don't know, Hilde, if we can say that at this stage when we have not...

We cannot comment on that because it's still ongoing discussions. So we can't give or publish any numbers, unfortunately. That's just how it is.

Then we have, which I guess has been already, why we are not appreciating the vessel values in our books. And no one it -- one might be changing to that and referring to Solstad that have a clear opinion on this. And as we say, we are doing a evaluation every -- at the end of every quarter. And next time we will do that is in the second quarter.

Yes. There is one more question here, what is the reasoning for bringing one of the minority shareholders again -- pushing against the debt-for-equity swap? And it's mentioned [indiscernible] here. And that question has to be brought to the Nomination Committee. We, as management, cannot comment on that. It's not we who decide who is in the Board of the company. The next question, does the restructuring plan currently include new money injection? We can't comment on that either because of the ongoing discussions. And that was it, I think.

Yes. That was, I think, the final question. So thank you very much to all for asking questions, and thank you very much for listening to us today. So thank you very much, and have a good day all of you. Thank you.

Thank you from me.

Bye.