Edenred SE (EDEN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, and welcome to the Edenred Q3 2023 Revenue Call. Please note, this call is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] I will now hand you over to Julien Tanguy, CFO, to begin today's conference. Please go ahead.

Good morning. I'm pleased to welcome you to the Edenred Q3 2023 call. I propose we move to Page 2 to the executive summary, what do we have to keep in mind for the first 9 months of 2023. So this quarter is another buoyant quarter confirming the strong growth momentum of the last few quarters and the increasing contribution from other revenue. It is the sixth consecutive quarter of growth above 20% for Edenred total revenue. In Q3 2023, total revenue stands at EUR 634 million, up 25.3% as reported and a 23.7% like-for-like. Q3 2023 operating revenue standing at EUR 575 million, up 19% as reported and other revenue of EUR 59 million in Q3, up from EUR 23 million in Q3 2022 as a result of float increase and higher interest rates in most regions. Year-to-date, total revenue stands at EUR 1.8 billion, up 25.8% as reported and up 24.9% like-for-like versus first 9 months of 2022. Edenred reported double-digit growth year-to-date across all business regions and all geographies. We are scaling the Edenred platform with both [indiscernible] go Beyond. First, Edenred is growing continuously in underpenetrated core market. As we did over the last year, Edenred is capitalizing on the relevance of its offer even more attractive in the current environment with strong structural trends, for instance, working world transformation, our new and greener mobility and in an inflationary context. Benefit and engagement is supporting the company's aiming to protect the purchasing power of the employees, mobility and corporate payments are supporting the improvement of organization efficiency. And Edenred is leveraging its powerful go-to-market to tackle in particular the SME segment and to actively harness the upselling potential. Concretely, we signed new clients on every segment, including SME, and we push upselling, taking advantage of maximum face value increase. Edenred is -- I move to Page 3. Edenred is also successfully extending its footprint beyond its core offer to target wider addressable market. Edenred is further promoting Beyond Food, Beyond Fuel and Beyond Payment offers, thanks to digital and innovative solutions and cross-selling. And we are using external growth as an additional lever to address new segments and seize new opportunities. We did the acquisition Reward Gateway. Reward Gateway is a Software-as-a-Service engagement platform with operations in the U.K., in Australia and in the U.S. GOintegro is the leader, Reward Gateway with operations in Latin America. And we announced recently the merger of Repom with PagBem in Brazil. I will come back to it in a couple of minutes. Let's close the executive summary with the Edenred full 2023 outlook. Thanks to another quarter of solid growth. Edenred is confident in its ability to generate a full year 2023 EBITDA in the upper half of the previously indicated target range, EUR 1.02 billion and EUR 1.09 billion. And we will deliver high EBITDA conversion into free cash flow. After the Q3 summary, I move to the highlights of Q3 2023 on Page 5. We recorded a robust growth confirming the solid momentum -- business momentum and the increasing contribution from other revenue. On Page 6, you find the growth of Q3 2023 and the revenue growth for the first 9 months of the year. In Q3, the total revenue is up 23.7% like-for-like. And at the end of September, the growth is 24.9% versus the same period of last year. Edenred delivered such performance, thanks to strong business momentum fueled by continued attractiveness of both core and Beyond solutions. And we got also a higher contribution from other revenue, thanks to robust activity level, generating a higher level of float and thanks to higher interest rates in Europe. I will come back on these topics later in the presentation. I'm now on Page 7 with a breakdown of Edenred performance per business line. As you can see, this double-digit growth like-for-like for every business line year-to-date at end of September. At the end of September, Edenred's operating revenue stands at EUR 1.656 billion, up 18.6% like-for-like. It's 22% growth like-for-like in Benefits & Engagement, 14% growth for Mobility business line and 14% for Complementary Solutions. Year-to-date Benefits & Engagement accounts for 62% of Edenred operating revenue, Mobility accounts for 26% and Complementary Solutions accounts for 12%. On Page 8, let's have a look to the distribution of Edenred operating revenue per geography. Like-for-like our business line, we are growing double-digit everywhere, 18.7% in Europe, 14.3% in Latin America and 35% in rest of the world. So we are delivering outstanding financial performance. And on top of that, we are also recognized for our ESG commitment. I am on Page 9. MSCI scoring AA has been reaffirmed. Moody's scoring is now 65 out of 100, i.e., plus 1 point versus last year. And Edenred has been included in CAC 40 ESG for the second year in a row. You also can see that we are a constituent company of the FTSE4Good index series for the 13th year in a row. After the numbers, let's go to Page 10, where we come back to our strategy and let's share concretely how we scale the Edenred platform to further penetrate our markets and go Beyond. On Page 11, you will recognize the 3 levers of Edenred Beyond strategy. First lever is scale the core. As we want to grow further in under penetrated markets like we did over the last year, signing new customers and maximizing our client base, reducing the churn, increasing upselling thanks to face value increase and fostering cross-selling with a large range of solutions. Second level is extend beyond. We aim at accelerating Beyond Food, Beyond Fuel and Beyond Payment designing and distributing new services on Edenred's unique platform. Now third lever is expand in new business opportunities. Let's move to some examples to illustrate those levers. We start with face value as an illustration of scale the core. On Page 12, we represented a time line with years 2022 and 2023 and the [ ways ] of maximum face value increase we got in many countries. Maximum face value increase took place in many countries, as you can see on this slide. 75% of countries have implemented a new legal face value increase in 2023 after 1 in 2022. For instance, Poland has decided to increase the face value in Feb 2022 and to reiterate in September 2023. France has decided for face value increases from Jan 2022 to June 2023. As inflation is still there, government takes care of purchasing power using tools such as meal voucher to protect and increase it. On Page 13, we illustrated the way Edenred think of the new legal face value. Once the new legal face value has been set by a government, nothing is automatic. We need to get in touch with our clients and focus face value increase for their employees. According to our historical data, it takes around 24 months to exploit the new face value and bring its usage up to the level of usage of the previous maximum sales value. To increase the speed of adoption, we are training our sales team and we give them data power tools, allowing them to convince our clients to increase the face value of their employees. After the face value and scale occur, we move to extend beyond with the acquisition of Reward Gateway. I am on Page 14. I'll remind you, we did the acquisition in May this year. Reward Gateway is the leading Software-as-a-Service platform, proposing 8 engagement modules, of which employee savings, social animation, rewards and recognition of wellness and well-being. Those modules allow employers to attract and retain employees in a labor market where scarcity of talented people is still high. Reward Gateway is growing nicely in the 3 countries where we have operations. Reward Gateway is market leader in the U.K. and Australia and is managing operations in the U.S. The Reward Gateway operating revenue growth is above 25% in Q3 versus last year. As we are working on the deployment of this platform in 6 countries in Continental Europe, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Romania and Spain. And we will launch pilots in the coming months. We move now to other illustration of our strategy with our platform in France on Page 15. Edenred platform offers a portfolio of diversified Benefits & Engagement solutions and among those products fits the Ticket Restaurant. Ticket Restaurant is the leading digital offer at the forefront of innovation. The French meal voucher market is still vastly underpenetrated at 25% penetration. Edenred is #1 on the market and #1 in digital with 2 million users. 75% of our business volume is digital, which is far above the market average at 60%. We are at the forefront of digital description. Edenred pioneered all key innovative features over the last 10 years. First mover for mobile payment, first mover to connect to meal delivery platform, first mover to plastic less, first mover to complementary payments. In 2023, Ticket Restaurant accounts for less than 50% of France revenue for Edenred. What is meal voucher in France today? Meal voucher is more than ever enshrined in French social landscape. Meal voucher is the favorite social benefit among French employees. It is a well-recognized tool to support healthy eating and meal voucher has undisputed economic impact on restaurants and local job creation. Planned for full digitalization of meal voucher by 2025 or 2026 has been recently announced by the government. And Edenred is fully ready for the switch to digital. Edenred is well placed to take full advantage of digitalization and acceleration -- and accelerate penetration, especially in digital markets. 75% of our volume being already digitalized. We still have 25% of our volume to migrate, and we will help any company to migrate to digital. Ticket Restaurant is 1 among many products we have in France. I move to Page 16, where you find a large portfolio of French Beyond Food solutions, of which Kadéos of digital brand, Fleet & Mobility or green mobility. The portfolio of solutions advanced accounts for 30% of our revenue in France. All those products are available on our benefit platform. For instance, policy offers employee saving solution. Thanks to your jobs. You can have access to promotions and discounts, especially negotiated with merchant for you by Edenred. All in all, around 10 million people are using our benefit solution in France. Combining all those products, an employee can bring up to EUR 6,000 additional purchasing power per employee per year. As we have many clients in France, we plan to propose a Reward Gateway platform to those clients in the coming years. We will propose additional modules coming from Reward Gateway that we enrich our offer such as rewards and recognition, well-being, and social animation. Thanks to Reward Gateway, we're enlarging the addressable market of Edenred in France by 25%, as we will address 25% of French benefit market that is 20% with our current offer. After France, we moved to another large country in Europe as we go to Germany on Page 17. Germany is the vast and underpenetrated benefits and engagement market. Today, our main solution in Germany is the Edenred City card. It is a simple and flexible benefit-in-kind solution, including a reload and monthly subscription. You can load up to EUR 50 per month and it represented up to 60 -- 600 additional purchasing -- EUR 600 new additional purchase power per year and per employee. As of today, we have 1.5 million people enjoying this solution accepted by more than 7,000 local merchants. In the context of purchasing power concerns, the operating revenue coming from Edenred City has increased by more than 40% in 2023 versus 2022 so far. Germany is the major European economy and this market is offering a great potential. We will tackle with Regard Gateway offer. Germany is 1 of the 6 countries where we plan to deploy this platform in continental Europe. Today, with Edenred City, we accessed 10% of the German benefit market. With Reward Gateway, we will address another 15% of the German benefit market. Benefit highlights is done. Let's turn to Page 18 and zoom on Mobility and Beyond Fuel strategy. We recently announced the merger of Repom, an Edenred company with PagBem in Brazil. What is the freight payment market in Brazil? It is a large and underpenetrated market with significant growth opportunities. Freight payments is a EUR 60 billion market, with more than 1 million independent truckers. Freight payment market covers services outsourced and expenses paid by large carriers and shippers to independent truck drivers for deliveries. What is our position on the market. Well, Repom is the leader of the freight market payments in Brazil and PagBem is #3 on the market. With this merger, we are combining Edenred and PagBem operations. PagBem cloud-based platform provides high efficiency, security and control to carriers, shippers and independent truckers. Edenred will own 70% of merge activities. There is no cash disbursement and the mechanism to reach 100% stake is planned. We expect significant synergies, thanks to great complementary between both platforms. Freight business is a scale business. Our ambition is to strengthen Edenred Repom's market-leading offer to further leverage scale on the market. After the highlights, we move now to more detail view on our financial performance. I am on Page 20. In Q3, our operating revenue is up 19% in published figures and is up 16.2% like-for-like with positive impact in scope. As you know, we did the acquisition of Reward Gateway and other acquisition and we've negative impact in currencies, mainly coming from Argentina and Turkey. At the end of September year-to-date, our operating revenue is up 20.5% in reported figures. On Page 21, let's go deeper with Edenred's performance in Europe. Operating revenue in Europe stands at above EUR 1 billion for the first 9 months of the year. At year of September, Edenred's operating revenue in Europe is up 22.2% in reported figures versus 2022. In France, we are confirming a double-digit growth. As already shared with you in the highlights, part of this presentation, we take advantage of the increased attractiveness of Benefits & Engagement solutions translating into strong growth of our leading digital Ticket Restaurant offer and Beyond Food solutions, driven by the success of employee savings platform. We also have a positive momentum for Mobility in France. And another comment about France performance, the 4-year contract we had with Action Logement is over. Action Logement is a French institution, managing housing for workers. The platform of Action Logement has been successfully used to [indiscernible]. More than EUR 2 billion of subsidies have been distributed. In the rest of Europe, Edenred posted solid growth in Benefits & Engagement despite higher comparison basis driven by sustained commercial dynamism in Ticket Restaurant and growing contribution of maximum face value usage, as already explained. This growth is also driven by the continued success of Beyond Food solutions. We also delivered robust growth in Mobility, thanks to the success of Beyond Fuel strategy and good dynamics in Fuel solutions despite the negative fuel price impact. After Europe, we go to Latin America, where we have strong commercial momentum across the region, and I move to Page 22. In Brazil, Edenred growth is double digit in Benefits & Engagement driven by Itaù Unibanco partnership, helping to further penetrate the SME segment in Meal & Food and the growth is also driven by the increased contribution of the Beyond Food offer. We also benefited from continued success of the Beyond Fuel Solutions, with tool and maintenance, partly offset by the decline in fuel prices at the pump. In Hispanic Latin America, growth is coming from solid pace in Mobility, notably thanks to the successful rollout of the Beyond Fuel solutions and the growth is also coming from the robust growth in Benefits & Engagement. After the operating revenue, let's move to other revenue on Page 23. Other revenue more than doubled in Q3 2023 versus Q3 2022. Business momentum is impacting the flow positively as our business volume is growing, our float is growing accordingly. And also another positive impact on floats from the new regulation in Brazil, where client payment plans have been done. Interest rate increases also contributed to other revenue increase. It is to Europe, in particular in the Eurozone, with repeated interest rate hikes since Q3 2022. And it is too also in Latin America in a context of continued rate rises notably in Hispanic Latin America, notably in Mexico and despite a 50 basis point decrease in SELIC rate in Q3 2023 in Brazil. Year-to-date, the other revenue amounts to EUR 141 million to be compared with EUR 53 million in 2022. On Page 24, you will find the total revenue picture at the end of September. Total revenue is the same of operating revenue and other revenue. Year-to-date, the total revenue stands at EUR 1.8 billion, up 25.8% as reported and plus 24.9% like-for-like. We have positive impact in scope especially coming from Reward Gateway. As a conclusion, I propose to move to Page 26 and to the 2023 outlook. So Edenred is on its way to achieve new records in 2023 with full year EBITDA estimated above EUR 1 billion, deploying the beyond 2022-2025 strategy. First, operating on vastly underpenetrated markets, Edenred maintains a strong commercial momentum. Second, in the context of strengthening the attractiveness of its solutions, Edenred continues to enrich its offer Beyond Food, Beyond Fuel, and Beyond Payment, undertaking M&A as an additional booster. Third, Edenred continuously investing in product and technology innovations to seize opportunities arising from new secular trends and thereby fuel future growth. Generating sustainable and profitable growth, Edenred is confident in its ability to generate full year 2023 EBITDA in the upper half as previously indicated target range of between EUR 1.02 billion and EUR 1.09 billion. The presentation is over. I'm now ready to answer your questions.

[Operator Instructions] And our first question today comes from Julien Richer from Kepler.

Three questions for me, please. The first one, is it fair -- or let's put it differently, how do you see other revenue evolving going forward? Or is it fair to annualize the Q3 '23 other revenue of EUR 59 million? Second question, do you -- can you please give us any early comments on the gift voucher season and the potential impact on Q4? And the last one, if you can please quantify the fuel impact in Q3?

Thank you, Julien. So let's start with other revenue. You've seen that the other revenue are high in Q3. What is clear is that because our business volume is growing, the money we can invest is growing too. So it has a positive impact. So this is the positive side of the other revenue. Then regarding, I would say, the more negative side, there is a trend in interest rates. So as I said, interest rates are still high in Europe. And I think they will stay high, I think, in Eurozone, which is not the case in other European countries. For instance, in Poland, the rates have started to decrease. So let's consider that it could happen in other countries in Eastern Europe. And it is the same in Brazil. So in Brazil, we have 2 impacts. The first 1 is very positive. It is a new regulation in Brazil. As I said, payment terms have been bad. It means that we are decreasing our business source, so we are increasing the float. But on the other hand, we know that Central Bank in Brazil has decided to start to decrease interest rates. So they decided to decrease by 50 basis points in Q3, and they plan to keep on decreasing interest rates in the coming months. So all in all, I think that there will be a kind of compensation in this country. So Q3 is, I would say, a good performance in terms of other revenue. We'll see how it goes, taking into account all those impacts. Your second question is about the gift campaign for Christmas 2023. It's too early to say indeed. We are the 19th of October. It's just the beginning of the campaign of 2023 Christmas season. We did very well last year in many countries in Europe and in Latin America. I cannot give you a trend as it's only the very beginning of the peak season. And then regarding fuel price impact in Q3. So you know that around 11% of our revenue is sensitive to fuel price. And what's important to us is fuel price at pump. It's not the fuel price of the market. When we look at the impact of fuel price in Q3, it's around 1% in terms of growth. So it is a negative impact because last year's fuel price was still high in Q3. And when we look at where it was, especially in July and August, this year, it was far below what it was last year. So let's consider that the negative impact on our revenue, and our operating revenue is 1%.

Okay. Just a quick follow-up on the gift voucher season. Could you please remind us what has been the impact last year in terms in Q4 in terms of operating revenue?

So we don't give this kind of breakdown of our operating revenue. The impact of gift season, you can see it on Q4 last year for sure. You also have an impact in Q1 and Q2 this year, as we book the revenue coming from merchant when we envelop the vouchers. And most of the vouchers that we issued during the last quarter of the year is reimbursed during the first quarter of the next year. However, we have a great offer on those markets. We brought evolutions to the offer we have in France, especially. So we are confident in our capacity to succeed in this gift season.

We'll now move on to our next question from Andre Juillard at Deutsche Bank.

Congratulations for this strong revenue publication. First question for me was about complementary solution. We see a slowdown in Q3. Could you give us some more color about the trend on that business line? Second question about your annual guidance. So your fine tune it in the high range of the initial one. But regarding the financial revenues evolution do we have to deduct that you are a little bit more cautious on the profitability versus the operating revenues or not? Or is it just because you continue to invest in OpEx, so more granularity also on that side? And last question about French regulation. So the antitrust gave a recommendation not to cap commission rate, but what is the next step? Did you have already some contacts with the French government? And do you have a clear idea of their intentions?

Okay. Thank you, Andre. So we start with complementary solutions. So in complementary solutions, we have different businesses. As I said, we had a contract in France with Action Logement with a platform distributing subsidies for people to their house. So this contract has been ended in June this year. So it was a big contract that started in 2019. So -- and it is a public social program. Just for you to know where we classified this contract. And it has been a success. So this contract is over. Now in Complementary Solutions, we also have a corporate payments in the U.S. with CSI. So regarding CSI, we are still growing, knowing that we've been able to launch new verticals. And we have good success with those new verticals. And we are doing well also with some verticals. We used to manage, for instance, golf club, which is a good market for us in the U.S. What is happening at CSI is that we are suffering from the media industry because the level of activity in media is quite low compared to what it used to be. So you know that media is 1 of our main vertical at CSI. So what we can say is that we've been able to grow at CSI at mid-teen level. So this is what is impacting the complementary solutions in Q3. Just to come back to Action Logement, this contract was a 4-year contract. So it has been indeed ended as it was planned. Now moving to the annual guidance. So we said that we will be in the upper half of the target we gave you in July. So yes, we have a positive impact coming from order revenue. Then regarding the growth we planned in Q4, we plan to keep on growing strongly in Q4 and we will be able to generate a good level of profitability. We are not particularly cautious with that in Q4. When you do the math, you know that this quarter is important for us, and it represents something like 30% of our revenue of the year. And as I said, we have a comparison basis that is higher due to the good performance we did last year. So we are confident in our capacity to renew good performance, but the comparison basis being bigger. It means that year after year, we know we need to keep the client regain the previous year and to find new clients to generate the growth. This market is quite different from Ticket Restaurant, As every year, we start from 0 and we need to reconvince our clients to sign contracts with us. Then moving to French regulation. So maybe we can spend a couple of minutes on that topic. That is very important for us. So as you know, the report from the antitrust authority has been published on Tuesday this week. So this report has been requested by the French ministry in charge of small companies. And I would say this report is very positive. First thing that is key -- is that both minister and the antitrust authority reaffirms the importance of meal voucher scheme in France. Second, and it is the first recommendation coming from the antitrust authority. And as you said, they do not recommend to cap the merchant fees. And it is their first recommendation in the report. [indiscernible] is very important and very positive for us. We will have mandatory digitization of the market in the coming months. So it could be 2025 or 2026. You know we are the leader on the digital market of Ticket Restaurant. So we are pushing to have digitization coming as soon as possible. So we are positive with the idea of moving to digital at the beginning of 2025. So we are going to talk with the government in the coming weeks to see how we can materialize all the things that have been reported by the antitrust authority in the Ticket Restaurant scheme in France. But really, when we look at the recommendations, we see that we need to work on the new scheme that we are in line with the recommendations that have been published by the antitrust authority.

Very clear. Just a follow-up on the digitalization. If we look at what happened in Belgium, correct me if I'm wrong, but the move to digital was done in almost 18 months. Couldn't you recommend to accelerate this move and not even talk about '26, but in the next 6 months or 12 months?

Yes, absolutely. I totally agree with you, and we would be very happy with the full digitization at the beginning of 2025. It means that we would have 12 to 15 months in front of us to migrate all the companies that are up-to-date of today.

And our next question now comes from Simon LeChipre from Stifel.

Three on my side, please. First of all, as a follow-up on regulation. I mean, among the different recommendations made, there is 1 which aims to basically reduce your bargaining program relative to merchants. I mean, this is a recommendation #3. I mean could you give us your thoughts on the implication of this recommendation? How could it be implemented and the likelihood that materialize? Secondly, on Fleet & Mobility, it seems like the like-for-like growth, excluding fuel price was like 16%, which is still a slowdown compared to Q2. So could you perhaps give us some details here? And lastly, just on financial expenses, looking at consensus analysts expect, net financial expenses next year slightly above EUR 130 million, so roughly in line with '23. I mean I would rather expect to step up again next year. So could you give us your view on what would be the right level for next year, please?

Okay, Simon. Thank you for your questions. Let's start with regulation and what you call it as more bargain power to merchants. Well, to be frank, it's not easy to see how this kind of recommendation could be implemented. There is a parallel in the report that is done between the credit card and the meal voucher programs. And to be clear, the 2 programs are totally different. And I think it is key to well understand what we are doing with our product. On 1 side, you have universal money, i.e., when you have a credit card and you go for a transaction with the merchant, you don't have any rules to manage except the rules that your bank has decided in terms of amount you can spend with your card. And sometimes, the rule is in the chip of your card, okay? So you can process the transaction quite easily and nothing has to be controlled. When you look at what we are doing, and it's very important to understand, you know that we are managing specific purpose money. What does it mean to manage specific purpose money? It means that first thing, as we are in a prepaid business and as we need to manage many rules with the payments, we have what we call systematic authorization card. It means that nothing can happen with our card. If you don't go to the authorization platform we are managing to check the rules of our product, and when we say the rules, we have many rules to manage. So in France, for instance, each time you have a transaction, you need to check the balance of the account because we are in prepaid. So if you don't have money on your card, we will not allow the transaction, then you need to check the network, is the merchants, where the transaction is coming from, part of our network or not. Third thing, we need to check the amount of the transaction because you know that in France, you have a cap. You cannot spend more than EUR 25 with your card every day. And last thing, we need to check the day of the transaction as you cannot use your card on Sunday. So you need to check all those things and then you need to accept or decline the transaction. So this is the main value that we bring to the market, and this is what is secure us because it's a way we allow our money to be spent in a limited number of merchants. So if we consider the value chain of our proposition, the value is coming from the capacity to filter our transaction. And then, of course, you need to pay the merchant. So for us, if you say we need to see how we can separate on one hand, the controls and on the other one, the settlement, there is something that doesn't work, okay? So I don't know how the antitrust authority plan to deploy such features. But in my view, it's very complex. And to be honest, I don't see how this can be implemented, now we see. But for me, it's clear that it's not something that will be easy to implement. And if we do something new in terms of clearing house, for instance, it means that we'll have to invest massively because it's not easy to do. So if we are talking of investment, it means that someone will have to pay. And at the end of the day, I'm not sure someone will pay for that as it is very complex. So the value chain that we have is built to manage specific purpose money. And at the end of the day, it is done because we want to generate traffic to the merchants that are part of our [ trust ]. And the value proposition we have is clear. We come with huge volumes. You've seen that the volume on the market in France is above EUR 8 billion. And those volumes are managed to be spent within our network, i.e., with the restaurants that are part of our network. So this is my view on that. So we'll see with the discussion we have with the government, what they have in mind, knowing that this recommendation is coming from the antitrust authority. I don't know if those people know exactly how our products are managed and our platforms are working. But it's very important to understand that we are managing a specific purpose money. We are not managing universal money. It is the heart of our activity, and it is exactly what we can manage on the market. So in terms of likelihood of implementation, I think it's quite low. Then you have a question regarding fleet and mobility activity and the growth we have seen in fleet and mobility. So we are growing nicely in fleet and mobility. Compared to the rest of the year, you see that the impact of fuel price is still there. So we said that it is 1%, of course, at the level of the group. But obviously, when you consider the Fleet & Mobility business, it's even higher, and it's more than 3% of growth that -- of negative growth that is coming from the fuel price impact upfront. When you look at on Beyond market and our Beyond businesses, we are growing very well with our Beyond Fuel strategy, especially in Brazil with the maintenance and with the toll. And it's also true in Europe, where we are doing very well with toll and also with VAT recovery. So we are still growing nicely above 15%. So I think that we will be able to keep on growing with this activity in the coming months. Last question is about financial expenses. So you know that when you look at our P&L, you have the impact of interest rate increase in the other revenue. You also have the impact of interest rate increase in financial expenses. What you need to consider for next year is mainly the acquisition of Reward Gateway. We did this acquisition in May this year, and we issued bonds in June. These are fixed rate bonds. You know that we issued EUR 1.2 billion at 3.62%. So you need to consider the full year impact of the acquisition of Reward Gateway in financial expenses next year, which is something key. And the other thing you need to consider is the fact that part of our debt is in floating rates, meaning that you will also have the impact of the increase of interest rates for the Europe. So these are the things you need to consider and to compute to see where we will land next year in terms of financial expenses.

Could like EUR 150 million be your right level for next year at this stage based on what you see on current interest rates?