EDP, S.A. (EDRVF) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to all of you both here in the room and virtually that are following us in the webcast. We have today here this capital markets presentation 2025 for EDP in which we'll start with the presentation by our CEO, Miguel Stilwell d'Andrade of our region and commitments and our platforms, followed by the presentation of our financials by our CFO, Rui Teixeira and then closing with the closing remarks by our CEO [Operator Instructions] Without further ado, I'll pass now the floor to our CEO, Miguel Stilwell d'Andrade.

Thank you, Miguel. And good morning, everyone. It's really great to see so many of you in person. I know we've spoken a lot over the last couple of quarters. or sometimes on one-on-ones, but it's actually great to finally be here and to be able to talk about EDP and about EDP renewables. We're going to be talking about 2028, but we're going to be talking about a lot more than 2028 and how we see the company develop over the next couple of years. And I think it's a particularly good time to be talking about EDP and EDP renewables. I think over the first sort of 6 months of the year, a lot of dark clouds in terms of what was going to happen to renewals in the U.S. What was going to be the framework for the regulatory or the distribution in Portugal and Spain, what was happening with the blackout and what was happening sort of in terms of ancillary services. And I think today, we can confidently say that we have much more clarity on the renewals in the U.S. We have much more clarity on the FlexGen and on the value -- the structural value of that. And we have much more clarity on the framework for the distribution in Portugal and also in Spain. So with that, I think we have the conditions to actually be able to talk credibly about what we see for 2028, but also talk very much about the trends that we see over the next couple of years. And with that, I'd start by talking about some of those key trends. I think one of the first things to note is really this incredible growth in demand that we're seeing. And this is not just PowerPoint. I'll just give you one specific data point, which at least for me, really impressed me. There is a data center being built in Portugal, which is about 1.2 gigawatts in 6 phases if it gets all built out. Just that 1 data center could represent 10 terawatt hours of energy. That's 20% of Portugal's energy demand. That's 1 data center. So I think I learned about it, I mean I was just blown away. 1.2 gigawatts, 20% of Portugal demand, 1 data center. And this is happening in the world over. We're seeing that in the U.S. We're seeing that in Portugal. We're seeing that in Spain. We're seeing that pretty much everywhere. So if this builds up, we will see this incredible amount of demand that will drive electrification. It will drive the build-out of renewals over the next couple of years. But we're also seeing other things. We're seeing EVs. We're seeing electrification, heating, pumping. So there does seem to be -- and again, a specific data point, we're actually seeing demand in Portugal and Spain after many, many years of stagnant growth actually growing to 3% plus, that's concrete data. That's not PowerPoint. That's not something that we're reading about. And that excludes the temperature effects and others. So concrete demand, we're seeing it. Renewables, we continue to believe that they are the most cheapest, certainly fastest, most scalable technologies that you can deploy. And again, I don't think that's very much debated. I know there's a lot of talk about nuclear. We're quite agnostic, to be honest, in relation to technology. We've had coal. We've had nuclear. We have a small stake. We have gas. We have renewables. So objectively, we believe renewables continues to be the fastest to deploy, the cheapest, most affordable and reliable. And we see that again 1 to 3 years to deploy in many of the different markets. I mean if you're trying to get new gas turbines built, for example, in the U.S., I think we all know that it still takes quite a number of years. They're not increasing manufacturing capacity. And in terms of nuclear again, 2035 and beyond, it's not going to solve the short, medium-term issue around energy demand. Then we can talk about flexibility. I mean as you have more renewals coming into the mix, you're going to have a greater need for flexibility. And so whether that's batteries, whether that's pump storage or we have an Iberia again. I think that's the source of increasing value, and I'll show in a couple of slides, that value, how it's increased over the last couple of years and why we believe that, that's a structural trend that will continue going forward. And then that's driving networks investments as well. And again, this is just a macro trend, I'll then show you specifically for Portugal and Spain. In particular, for Portugal, this is going to be driven by demand, but very much about modernization of the networks. And there are a couple of data points. But -- and I'll come back to this -- again, 55% of the transformers in Portugal, high and medium voltage, will be over 40 years old, which is very typical useful life by 2030, over half. There was a huge electrification back in the '70s and '80s, and that wave of investment is coming. And that's a trend that will carry well beyond 2030 until 2040. So again, a massive wave of investment that's necessary in networks. Certainly in Iberia, which is where we have a big part of our networks. Regulation. I talked about regulation, the U.S. PTCs, ITCs, we know that, that's locked in a lot of stress in the first half of the year, I think for investors, for us about what would happen there. But we have visibility on ITCs. We have visibility on the PTCs. We have visibility on the IRS guidance. So I think we have a good road map now in terms of growth for the next couple of years. In Europe, there's been a lot of movement there, continuing to incentivize CFTs, continue in certified PPAs, action plan also in terms of network investments, the actual recognition that you should have capacity payments in the mix. That's something that's been worked on in Spain and also Portugal that will have an impact also on our portfolio. Again, capacity payments have been talked about for many years. that's now becoming a reality. We expect that to happen already in 2026 for Spain and in '27 for Portugal. And then Brazil, I think one of the key things to highlight in Brazil was the extension of our concessions. Our 2 distribution concessions we now have visibility for the next 30 years. That was a question mark we had last year and the beginning of this year. That's now signed, that's now agreed. There's no doubt about that. And I think that was also a major step in terms of visibility. So wrapping up in terms of trends, growth in demand, I think that's undeniable. Renewables continues to be the fastest, cheapest source of generation to meet that demand. More flexibility in increasing the value of our generation portfolio in Iberia. Networks investment, regulatory tailwinds, I think we're all set up. And then EDP, leader renewables, resilient integrated position in Iberia and really extracting maximum value from that and then the strong electricity networks business going forward. So I think it's a really strong story. I think it's a particularly good moment in time to really capture that growth going forward. And these are trends, again, our business plan goes to 2028. But I think these are macro trends that last well beyond 2028. Okay. Let's get into the commitments. So what are we committing to? I know we've already put out the presentation. So some of these numbers you'll know. But 3 key pillars: focused growth, optimizing the business and having a distinctive resilient portfolio. On the investment side, EUR 12 billion of investment, mostly focused on networks in Iberia and U.S. renewables. Net EUR 7 billion, we are doing asset rotations and we are also doing disposals of about EUR 1 billion to refocus on more core markets. We are seeing an uptick in returns, and I'll talk a little bit more about that. But so the investments that we do in renewals, we expect to have higher returns than in the past. We're keeping a very strong discipline on efficiency, and so 26% OpEx over gross profit. I think that's best in class, frankly, but we will keep in that -- be keeping that sort of a commitment. A very important thing, a EUR 1 billion net debt reduction. This doesn't have any tax equity effects or any others. This is a real EUR 1 billion net debt reduction. And with all of this, you end up with an increase in EBITDA, an increase in earnings and decrease in net debt. So we are positioning our balance sheet for 2028 to capture that optionality going forward. We're building in optionality. We're building in headroom. We're taking a prudent approach to make sure that all the projects that we approved are bulletproof from a returns perspective, from a risk perspective. So when we take those investment decisions we are comfortable. We've derisked the supply chain and that we can capture that going forward. And so this headroom will allow us and will give us that flexibility going forward. All this powered by an extremely talented team in this room, and I think I'm standing here, just representing sort of 12,000 people at EDP, but also the leadership team, which is really going to help drive this and leveraging also on all the digital and AI applications, which I think is really making a huge difference, translating into efficiency and much better availability also of our assets. Going into a little bit more depth now. So the EUR 12 billion of investment. Interest in fact, 90% in A-rated markets. Portugal is now A-rated. Last time we spoke back in '23, it was BBB. It's had a remarkable improvement. I think we will talk more about that, but it's now at around 90% debt to GDP. It's got the lowest spreads to the German bond ever. So it's now a solid A rating together with the other countries like the U.S., like Spain, like many others, including Singapore. We're keeping the around EUR 5 billion of asset rotation, mostly renewables, a little bit of transmission in Brazil. Net investment networks increased from 25% to 45% on a net basis. and renewables increasing from 50% to 60% in the U.S. So there is this greater focus on networks and on U.S. renewables. And as I say, with the optionality to accelerate throughout the plan and beyond. I think that's really a key thing. Returns. We're seeing returns relatively stable in Europe. We're seeing them increasing in the U.S. Again, many data points we can give you, and we've got [indiscernible] here also the CEO of the U.S. can talk about that in more detail, but we really are seeing increasing prices and increasing returns on the investments on renewables in the U.S. But also on the network side, is just the regulatory improvements that we're seeing. We think there's still potential for more. That's what we're assuming. But very importantly, particularly in the case of Portugal is that we used to have the extraordinary tax on networks as well, which was a big reduction, if you want, in terms of the profitability of the networks. That is now exempt. So networks in Portugal are exempt from the extraordinary tax. That's an uplift in return of about 0.85% IRR just on that basis as well. So that's a big improvement certainly on the networks. And not even talking about other things like the incentives and regulatory parameters that I can get into in a bit more detail. Asset rotation, this is something, I think, that has distinguished us over the years. We've done already 35 transactions, EUR 13 billion of proceeds, EUR 3 billion of cumulative gains more than 8 gigawatts of capacity rotated. Every year, we get asked this. Every year, there's some skepticism. Are you guys going to be able to do it. And every year, we have delivered. Every year, we have delivered on the asset rotations. We continue to see great demand for our assets, and we continue to see great multiples for assets. I mean, even this morning, you were asking about the capital gains in our French portfolio. Yes, it's true. Great capital gains. Great multiples. It's true these are scarce assets and people continue to want to buy on it. So that -- I mean, if you look at our U.S. rotation, our asset rotation, what we call our Pioneer portfolio, 1.6 gigawatts. We sold 49% common equity, no structured equity, fancy structures, no. Straight common equity, great multiple, great partner. So that's going to drive our asset rotation going forward of around EUR 5 billion and then of around EUR 200 million of asset rotation gains per year. Efficiency. Listen, I think this is something that some of you have to comment on. We've managed to actually bring down nominal costs as we drive growth. We're increasing megawatts. We're increasing megawatts, we're increasing RAB and yet we're driving down costs. As I say, bringing down the OpEx of gross profit, increasing the megawatts in the RAB. And we're doing this by staying focused. We reorganized ourselves. We took out a lot of duplications. We took out a lot of redundancies. We've been focusing very much on digital automation. We've really been going deep on that to make sure that we can strip out all the costs, leveraging on those back offices to drive costs. We know that this is a competitive business. We have the scale we have, and we need to be better and faster and more productive than others. And so that's been a big part of our drive as well. ESG. I know this is not a -- it's a forbidden word in some places nowadays, but this goes in cycles. So I don't think we've abandoned ESG on the contrary. I think we're leading. Still leading on the ESG side. I just call highlight a couple of points. Revenues from coal, pretty much 0. We're just waiting for final permission from the Spanish government to decommission some plants that we sold the same, we closed Sines, we converted [indiscernible], which is a major coal plant to gas and very profitably. So coal phasing out renewable generation, more than 90% emissions intensity. I mean, when I saw these numbers, I myself was surprised just how far we've come in terms of reducing emissions intensity in our portfolio. So committed still to net 0 by 2040 and continue to going down that path. In terms of our other commitments, climate adaptation, communities, biodiversity, supply chain, making sure we comply with the ESG standards safety and leadership diversity. So we're keeping our ESG commitments. We're reinforcing them. We continue to think that it's an important part in value for the business and for the company going forward. Overall, in terms of our results, EBITDA. A big part of it is still coming from Europe. Obviously, North America increasing from 20% to 30%. As I said earlier, 80% in A-rated markets. 30% the U.S., 30% electricity networks. A big part of it is regulated and long-term contracted, part of it merchants, and this will allow us to reprice going forward. I'll come back to that, particularly in the U.S. But that's basically how our portfolio looks overall. Net debt, strong commitment to the BBB. We maintain that. We're seeing a decrease or improvement in the ratios. Lot of organic cash flow. We have seen that in our results for the third quarter. We're having record organic cash flow that's important, keeping the low-risk business and the absolute net reduction over this period as we also increase earnings. So overall, in summary, in terms of the commitments, earnings growth, slightly better quality as well, I think. I mean, back in 2019, we had a higher percentage of asset rotation gains. We still have some asset rotation gains but they're going to be a smaller percentage. So increasing earnings, better quality, increasing dividends, stable scrip dividend offered EDPR, keeping our payout ratio between 60% to 70%, so towards the higher end, but having that increase in dividend also to $0.21 over the period. So that's it in terms of commitments. Now let's talk about the platform, and I'll go in a little bit deeper on each of these platforms. The first one I'll talk about is the networks business. Again, many of you know, and you've followed us for many years. Networks business, we basically manage the high, medium and low voltage networks business in Portugal. We also have the networks up in the north of Spain, [indiscernible], then we have networks in [indiscernible] states in Brazil, and also Sao Paulo, Brazil. So about EUR 7 billion of RAB and a recurring EBITDA of around EUR 1.5 billion. Continue to work on efficiency. Obviously, the distribution business efficiency is absolutely critical, together with an improvement in quality of service. So this is what we've done so far. We've improved quality of service and improved efficiency. We are good managers of our distribution concessions. We got the 30-year extension. We're the first company to get the 30-year extension of the concessions in Brazil. Why? Because we delivered on quality of service, on investment and on efficiency. We delivered on the criteria. So why wouldn't you extend the concession if you're doing a good job in managing it. And that's what we did. And we did it by leveraging on technology, by leveraging on the people and making sure we are managing well those concessions. Investments, around EUR 3.6 billion of investment over this period. This is already based on improved investment plans, so approved by the regulators. RAB increasing over the course of this period, EBITDA also increasing. We can go in a little bit more depth there. EBITDA in 2025 in Brazil have some effects that have to do with the extension of the Brazil. Most of this already locked in. So the regulatory context, as you know, in Portugal will be closed on the 15th of December. We're a couple of weeks away, but we already have a first proposal. That will represent about EUR 1.7 billion of gross investments over this period. Spain ongoing discussion. Many of you are following that around what is the regulatory context there. But one way or the other, it will be closed in the next couple of weeks serving by year-end, and we've got about EUR 0.6 billion there over the course of this period. And then in Brazil, at least for [indiscernible] already locked in until 2030 and for Sao Paulo. At least the return on RAB is already fixed for this next period. And so that's also helping us define what are the returns. Overall, what you see is around a 10.5% return on equity for the distribution business sort of as the weighted average of these different businesses. We are assuming versus the current proposals, a slight increase on the returns still versus where they are, at least in Portugal and Spain. And I'll just talk about that in a second. On the investment side, I just wanted to pause here just a little bit on the slide because I think it's an important one. investments in Iberia is going to be driven partially by demand. But even if you ignore the demand, this is what I was talking about earlier. This is the profile of the transformers in Portugal, their useful life. If you see here, there's a huge jump from 26 to 30, and it jumps even more from 31 to 35. This is the end of the useful life of most of these transformers. This means that this wave that we're seeing of increased investment in Portugal is going to continue well into 2040 because these assets need to be substitutive, they need to be modernized, they need to be replaced. And so this will drive this investment well over the next 15 years. So this is not predicated just on demand. This is driven very much by modernization. And I think that's what gives us that long-term visibility, which is a break from the past. It's true we weren't growing in Portugal because there wasn't a lot of need, but also the returns weren't there. I think the government and the regulators have recognized that they need to incentivize greater returns on the distribution, and we have the prospects for that over the next couple of years. In terms of returns, so we're seeing, as I said, increased investments in Portugal, low voltage and the high medium voltage. This is already approved by the regulators. So we have pretty good visibility on this. In Spain as well, we can then get into that. But essentially, there is a tap on investment that's been increased. We may take advantage of that to a certain extent. But then in returns, as you know, in Spain, you've got -- it's been revised up slightly to 6.58. Maybe it'll go up a little bit further. It would be great. In Portugal, the first proposal was 6.33. We think it will still go up further. We're advocating for that. We think there are methodological issues with the calculation, which would allow us to still hope for a higher return. We'll know that on the 15th of December. But in any case, we believe that that's going to be the case. Importantly, there are add-ons on top of these returns in terms of the incentives, around 100 to 200 basis points, whether it's because you've been in the TOTEX or the efficiency or the quality of service or the improvement in losses. There are additional add-ons in terms of returns on the distribution in both Portugal and Spain. The other thing to highlight, which is pretty good to Portugal versus Spain is that the returns are indexed to the bonds, which means there is some derisking of that. So if the yields were to go up, the returns will go up, so it go down, they go down. But basically, what's important is the spread stays relatively constant. So there's some derisking of the returns in that sense. In terms of Brazil, so as I mentioned, I think the key thing to highlight here is the extension, which gives us a long sort of road ahead in terms of managing that. The rate of return, as I mentioned, 6 for [indiscernible], already 6 for Sao Paulo as well. The phone already signed this one expected to be signed before the end of the year, but we've already got the approval from the regulator. And that will drive -- help us drive this sustained growth on the distribution side. On the transmission, we also continue to see good opportunities coming up. And as you know, in Brazil, there's a very regular auctions sort of every 6 months, 12 months, of transmission lines. We just won another small lot recently with good returns. And so this is a repeated game. It means you can stay disciplined, and you don't need to worry about losing a bid or losing -- you can just keep your returns and make sure that you're capturing the best opportunities there. So that will also drive a big part of the RAB growth going forward. But the transmission Brazil is particularly attractive. It's typically 30-year locked in almost like a bond as long as they can build on time and on budget, and we've done that. We've typically built it under budget and ahead of time. So I think feeling very comfortable about the transmission growth also going forward. So in summary, for networks, EDP Group, step change in investment, and this is something that we have good visibility on well beyond the business plan, increasing investment visibility, improvements of regulatory returns improved efficiency and growing EBITDA throughout the business plan period. These are the key numbers, and we can get into sort of more detail afterwards in the Q&A. Now I'll talk about clients, renewables, FlexGen. And before I just get into more depth on that, I just wanted to put up this slide because -- just deconstruct the slide. What it is showing us is on one side, we have, let's say, the Iberian seen and clients, where essentially we have our hydro. We have our CCTs in Iberia. We have our customers, we have our integrated position. And on EDP renewables side, we have 20 gigawatts of generation assets with a lot of customers, PPAs, CFTs, big tech. So EDPR on the right-hand side. But we try to manage as much as possible in an integrated way. Why? Because we think that, that creates value. So generation assets run in terms of systems, in terms of managing availabilities, really trying to squeeze out as much efficiency as we can out of all of these operating technology. In terms of Energy Management, again, we're managing energy in multiple different markets. There are correlations, there are issues. It's much better to manage an integrated portfolio than to just manage it piece by piece. So from a risk return perspective, we can optimize it here, obviously, safeguarding the interest of the minorities of EDP renewables. But this allows us to have a much more holistic view of energy management across the group. And then Client Solutions, again, it cuts across many of the different geographies because in many cases, some of these customers can be customers in the U.S., they can be in Iberia in Japan, and this is a true story. We have for Amazon, it's in the U.S., in Europe, Brazil and Japan, we literally have contracts with all of these people. So client solutions, it also makes sense to have a transversal view across the company. So getting to a little bit more depth on FlexGen. You know our existing portfolio, so I won't get into much step there. I mean in terms of megawatts, the 5.5 hydro and then install capacity of gas, but 2 terawatt hours of electricity generation about 8 terawatt hours of hydro. In Brazil, it's mostly contracted, so I won't spend too much time there because it's basically a relatively fixed value. What I did want to talk about is the efficiency on one side on the sex Gen. So for example, customers continue to bring down that OpEx per year per customer per year. And in terms of the renewable generation assets also keeping relatively high rates of efficiency. We're doing targeted investments, around EUR 100 million of CapEx, double-digit IRRs, improving the output of some of these targets -- some of these power plants. And using robots, automation technology to really try to drive that efficiency going forward. And now I'll get into 2 important slides that I want to just spend a little bit of time on. As Iberia gets more solar, you start getting more DUC curve. I think most of you are pretty familiar with them, and that's driving more ancillary services. This is 2020 to 2024, and you can see this increase. I'm not putting '25 where the number is actually EUR 17 per megawatt hour because I think that's pretty extraordinary. So we're not assuming that level. We're assuming somewhere in between the 2020 to 2025 -- '24 number sort of as a structural ancillary services value going forward, still going to be higher than what it used to be in the past. But that's, let's say, an assumption that we're making for the business plan going forward. And in terms of hydro, what you can see here is that the price premium for hydro versus the base load has been increasing over time. So we're assuming around 20% of premium over base load. And on the pump storage, we're also assuming more pump storage in terms of megawatt hours and also slightly higher spreads versus the base load. So the pump storage of baseload. All that driving, it's the last slide on this section driving this profile of returns on the integrated Iberian business. This has been normalized to help guide you in terms of how we see the business evolve. So we've backed out, let's say, price and volume differences. And what you see here is essentially a growth of the flexible generation of the flexible services growing between 25 and 28. It is important to note that 2025 has a negative which is offsetting some of the positives on the FlexGen coming from the retail because you can't pass all of the ancillary costs on to the customers on to the market in the first instance. That will come off over '26 and '27 and so you see that uplift in the flexible services over the next couple of years. We're assuming a baseload reference of around EUR 64 over this period, the '26 to '28 period. And so as I say, normalization of prices and volumes, '26 and '28. P50 for most cases and around 64. The increase in margins from flexible services, also partially offset by lower gas margins. So we have one other contracts of the gas contracts, which have slightly lower margin. The 3.4 million retail clients, here, we're assuming a relatively flat sort of margin coming from the customers. But all in all, if you want to focus, it's more on the side about where a big part of the growth is coming from in the flexible generation. So that's FlexGen and customers. Moving on to EDP Renewables. Again, most of you know EDP renewal as well, 20 gigawatts pretty much spread globally with a very strong emphasis on North America, long track record 22 states, 10 gigawatts in the U.S. specifically, and I'll give you -- we'll go deeper on the U.S. in just a couple of slides. But before I go there, efficiencies come down has improved dramatically. I think as we scale, we managed to get the economies of scale. And so you can see the OpEx per megawatt coming down. We assume that stays relatively flat continues to improve slightly until 2028. Assuming improved renewables availability from some of the projects that we're able to solve some of the ones that had some technical issues. And so in very targeted in terms of the way that we allocate our resources to solving the issues that have the highest payback, the fastest. And so that driving AI, digital, technology, just using that to really drive this efficiency and availability. Investment plan, EUR 7.5 billion over this period, EUR 4.5 billion in terms of asset rotations, net investments of around EUR 3 billion. In terms of growth around 1.5 gigawatts per year for '26 and '27. '26 is locked. '27 is mostly locked. We have flexibility on '28 and beyond. And that's why when I talk about flexibility, we're talking about '28 and beyond as having the potential to capture that upside going forward as the project's gotten arising. 2025 on time and on budget, as I mentioned earlier. Overall, the 5 gigawatts, so it's slightly more than 1.5% over this period. Obviously, it's accelerating towards the back end of 2028. In terms of split, again, the 5 gigawatts, maybe things to highlight, already a big percentage of solar and co-located batteries. So this is becoming more and more one of the sort of the key issues here. So not just doing naked solar, but really doing it with matches. This is particularly relevant in the U.S. And the batteries in the U.S., we are getting great returns on them. So you're getting tolling agreements with double-digit IRRs, and that's really helping sort of the economics of the case. But even solar PV, just in general, we're still seeing a huge amount of demand coming through and helping drive those returns. Most of these technologies are let's say, under CFDs or PPAs. So as you know, we contract most of these we don't, let's say, take merchant risk on these projects only in the back end once the PPAs have come off. Okay. Besides, I think it's relevant just to spend some time on because a lot of you have raised questions about how we see repricing. So just one and then another slide in the U.S. About 70% -- we're assuming about 70% will be long-term contracted. We have about 25% by the end of 2028. Part of that in the U.S., part of that in Europe. We're seeing different trends in the U.S., increasing PPA contracts and increasing merchant prices. In Europe, we're seeing slightly decreasing prices at least until 2028. So we're assuming an average selling price which is about flat over this period between '26 and '28. On the combined portfolio, Brazil and APAC has a lower weight in this, so -- but we're still seeing upward trending prices on that. I wanted to talk to you just a bit about data centers because I know this is a topic that also comes up very often. We really -- I gave you that data point at the beginning. We really are seeing this incredible demand and growth coming from data centers, big tech asking for more PPAs and more power. And even today, we continue to get that type of inbound calls. It's coming through either directly through our contacts and we have more than 3 gigawatts already contracted with these guys with the big tech. So they have our direct line. They know who we are at the highest level, we interact with them. But it's also coming through very much with U.S. utilities because a lot of the big tech are setting up in utility centers in sort of in the regional space and the utilities are having to procure that power. So we're seeing more and more build and transfer agreements where the utility is essentially saying, "I'll buy the project from you. You build it and I'll buy it, and I'll preagree the margin on that project". So that's almost like a accelerated asset rotation, which we know upfront that if we build it, we get that margin and we're able to lock that in. So we're seeing that demand coming through not just directly, but also indirectly through the utilities, and that's helping drive. So those type of contacts and relationships that we have are extremely important. And I'll go in deeper as I said in the U.S., but I just wanted to highlight that here. On the new assets, opportunities to contract PPAs for longer terms. You have seen yesterday, we put out a press release 30-year PPA. So it's interesting that how we've seen actually the contracts extending throughout the U.S. and the existing assets opportunities we contract. Just a second here on Powered Land because what is Powered Land. Powered Land is basically where we have access to the network, which can be used to either inject power into the network or it can be used to consume power from the network. And in some cases, we have some projects, whether it's because they're older projects or they're more curtailed where we can actually be a window into the network. And so we can have, let's say, talk about co-locating data centers with our projects. So for example, in the case here, we're talking about a 400-megawatt Lone Star project in the U.S. where potentially you can have this co-location of a data center with an existing asset, which has curtailment issues, or which has lower merchant prices, and you can reprice those projects higher up. So we're looking and we're exploring our existing assets to see how we can extract more value from these assets. And so that gets me into the U.S. The U.S., I think you just have here an overview of where we are in the U.S. in terms of installed capacity, so pretty much spread out. But with a big concentration in MISO PJM, not quite a bit in [indiscernible] a little bit in ERCOT. MISO & PJM, as you can see is where we have a big part of our pipeline, it's also some of the area where there's biggest growth in terms of demand coming through from the data center. So I think we're particularly well positioned to take advantage of that. And that wasn't by design. This is something we've been doing for many years. It just so happens that, that's where a big part of the demand is coming. So we're fortunate to be able to line up, let's say, the demands with our pipeline. Miguel Viana told me spend more time on this slide. So I'm going to spend more time on this slide. This is the evolution of the PPA prices over the last couple of years. This is market data. This is not our data. This is -- I think some of you will know Level 10 data. In 2018, '19, '20, contracting at around $30 per megawatt hour. These PPAs will run off, let's say, 2035, 2030s, 2035. First, if you're contracting here, you're contracting much higher prices. This is a fact. I know you have higher CapEx. I know you have higher cost of capital, but we also have higher returns. They're contracting new assets at these higher prices. But then you're also going to have these PPAs, the PPAs that we contracted a couple of years ago running off and that will allow us to reprice. So we don't expect any impact in the context of this business plan up to 2028 because a lot of the PPAs are already locked in. We do expect to already be signing, let's say, contracting power at a premium to merchant price. This is not theoretical. This is a fact. We've already signed, for example, a 10-year PPA at $11 premium to merchant prices. Why? Because people are willing to pay a premium to lock in long-term energy. So we've got energy, for example, from one of our projects, [indiscernible], $11 for the next 10 years, starting in 2029. In 2031 to '35, that's when some of the PPAs that we signed back sort of pre-2020 at around $20, $30 per megawatt hour are coming off. And that's where you see the 12 terawatt hours of energy that becomes available that you could potentially recontract at higher prices going forward. So I think higher prices for what we're contracting today and the potential for repricing of contracts as they come off towards post business plan period towards the end of the decade and beginning of early next decade. So in the U.S., what are we expecting? '26, as I said, well. '25 is obviously locked in. '26 is locked in. A big part of '27 is locked in. So what we're looking at is '28 and beyond has been where we can position ourselves to capture those opportunities. And that has to do, but what I -- what we didn't want to do is to commit to a lot of megawatts where we're then in a position where to lose-lose, either we comply with the megawatts and maybe have sacrificed returns or we comply with the returns and we sacrifice the megawatts. So we're not going to put ourselves in a lose-lose situation. When we get the projects, and we believe we will, we'll communicate them, and that will be an upside. So that's what we're driving at. We're not -- we will be taking solid investment decisions to make sure that as those projects come through, we will be able to surprise hopefully on the upside and not be in this potential losing situation. I say we have good visibility on the safe harbor, and we can go into that in more detail, but we already have about 5 gigawatts plus that either safe harbor or already or on track. We have the supply chain. You know about our contract with First Solar, now about the relationships that we have, for example, with [indiscernible] with the factory that they have in the U.S. So we feel pretty good about the supply chain set up. I don't think there's a lot of tariff risk there. And we have a good pipeline, and I talked about that a little earlier on. So honestly, we're feeling pretty good about the U.S. I know we had a first couple of months of huge uncertainty, but we are in a different position now from where we were. Let's talk about Europe. So Europe continues to be an interesting market. We got that question this morning about the capital gains in our portfolios. There's less volume but they are really good projects when you can get them. And we're making sure we're getting those good projects and rotating them. We did the French rotation. We did the Italian rotation. We did the Greek rotation. So these are good projects. There's an issue about how you can scale them up and make sure we get more. I think we're well positioned in terms of pipeline. I mean, particularly in places like Italy, France, Poland, Germany, Portugal and Spain. Let's see how the demand picks up there. But I'd say that our key markets or we are in the key markets that we want to be, and these are the ones that we'll be focusing on going forward. We're assuming about 0.5 gigawatts over the next couple of years, but the same thing. Again, we have the opportunity to flex up if you see those opportunities, most of these CFDs and pays produced. A lot of hybridization also going on, so using our installed base and putting on multiple different technologies on the same interconnection point. And then in APAC, what we're seeing in APAC is actually we've opened up Australia and that's potentially bringing through a pretty big growth towards the back end of this plan or towards the back end of this decade. In the meantime, we continue to have a pretty solid growth in Singapore, places like Japan. Those continue to be, let's say, the places where we will be delivering growth and keeping that optionality also in Southeast Asia. So I think it's an interesting market to be in. Like it's a relatively high return option in the sense that like there's a huge amount of consumption there, a huge amount of potential growth there -- not potential, the growth there. So being able to even capture a part of that, I think, is a great option. It's a question of finding the right projects being in the right countries, and I think we've refocused significantly over the last couple of months to be really in the key markets we want to be. On Ocean Winds. The key word here is discipline, focused on extracting value from our existing pipeline. We're not going to go for huge growth. I know we have a partner 50-50 that we also need to manage or we need to work with, but our objective is to extract value from our existing portfolio. So we finished Mary West. We are doing the Polish project, which was already under. So we've taken FID on the Polish project. We're finishing up the French project. We have continued to evolve our existing pipeline also, for example, in Australia and South Korea. But I'd say the key focus is getting the existing projects done and just been very disciplined about additional projects that we take on. And so that takes us globally to EDP renewables. Just a sort of overall summary, EUR 7.5 billion of gross investment, of which 60% in the U.S., good equity returns, strong asset rotation plan, EUR 4.5 billion, EUR 1 billion of disposals, basically refocusing to more core markets, continue to drive efficiency. And with that, you get an increase in recurring EBITDA doubling of recurring net profit. We get the net debt down, and we build up all of that optionality in that headroom. And we keep the stable scrip dividend at around 30% to 50% throughout '26 to '28. So that's basically a summary of EDPR, I think, good optionality, good growth. We're in the right markets. We have refocused and we have very, very clear what we need to do here to create value. And with that, I pass it over now to a video just before I then turn it over to Rui. It's on technology, on engineering, on innovation because I know a lot of these sites, we talked about AI, we talked about technology, and it's very right. It's difficult to sort of actually show what we're talking about. And I could spend hours talking about it, but there's nothing better than to actually see it. So we have a short video we'll put it on, and then we will take over for the finances. Thank you. [Presentation]

So again, good morning. Thank you for your time today. I'm afraid I have to ask to be apologetic with the people remotely because there is a lag in terms of the -- both the voice and the slides. So it's just a bit awkward that we just saw the video about what we are doing in innovation. But today, unfortunately, It's not working here as well as I would like to. So apologies for that. What I would like now to take you through is to show how the strategy that Miguel just presented turns into solid financials for EDP as well as EDPR. Maybe starting by looking at the EUR 5.2 billion EBITDA that we can meet to this business plan, the EUR 1.3 billion that we commit to this business plan, but looking also over a longer period of time. If you look on a 9 years basis. So let's say, from 2019 all the way down to the end of the period, this is actually showing a stable 4% CAGR on earnings. So I think it's important to highlight that we're looking backwards. We have a company or we had a company that was around EUR 0.8 billion, EUR 0.9 billion in net profit. and then it stepped up to become a EUR 1.2 billion up to EUR 1.3 billion of net profit by the end of 2028. Also highlighting that we keep a very stable dividend policy, DPS floor increasing to $0.21 by the end of the period. But also in something that we always highlighted as being a strategic pillar in the company's business plans is that we are very keen to keep our BBB balance sheet. And this is shown by the ratio, the leverage ratio is improving. So from 3.7x net debt-to-EBITDA in 2019 to 3.2 net debt to EBITDA ratio by the end of this period of 2028. What I would like now to take a -- take you there is really how we look at the quality of the portfolio and how the different segments are playing within the evolution -- or within this period in the evolution that we're expecting. So obviously, the renewable segment is where we see an important growth contribution up to EUR 2.2 billion of EBITDA by 2028. And this is on the back of the growth that we are seeing in the U.S. And obviously, resulting from the capital allocation towards the U.S. given the opportunities that we are seeing in the renewables. The networks, reaching EUR 1.6 billion of EBITDA by the end of this period, which is a consequence, not only of higher CapEx, but also improved returns, improve incentives and even in particular case of Portugal, the fact that we are not longer having the sales, that cash hold special tax for new investments. And let's say that normalization impact that we are expecting in the flex generation segment. So if you normalize from hydro years and high prices in Iberia, that is being compensated by higher value coming from the FlexGen. So there is a pool of value there that is increasing its contribution and that gives us this expectation that we get to the EUR 1.3 billion of FlexGen EBITDA contribution by the end of 2028. Capital allocation. So it's a plan where we will be investing on average EUR 4 billion per annum. The bulk of it obviously continues to go to renewables, where I would like to highlight that 60% of the investment in renewables is going to be allocated to the U.S. In the past, we used to have around 50%. So that's an increase, obviously, taking the opportunity to capture higher returns in the projects that we are seeing available in U.S. Also grid, the networks is increasing in terms of relative weight. So in the past 2 years, we allocated about 21%, of capital to the grids in this plan until '28, we are getting to 30%. But I would also like to highlight that it's as well about focus. We are reducing the number of markets where we are investing. So 95% of the CapEx will be allocated to less than 10 markets. And also 90% of those are A-rated. So it's also a question about management focus and the quality of this capital allocation across the different markets. I would like to spend a couple of -- well, not minutes, but at least a minute or so on the asset rotation because, as you know, and Miguel said it very clearly, I think that we have shown that we have been executing for the past 10 years. But even if we look to the 2025 asset rotation program that we knew that many people were doubtful that we would be able to execute. We committed to a EUR 2 billion in asset rotation proceeds program and we are delivering that. It's a combination of mostly coming from the renewables, different portfolios in Spain, in Europe, United States, also asset rotation in Brazil and the transmission. So we are delivering in that building. The asset rotation in the U.S., I think it's worthwhile highlighting what Miguel said before. It's a very large portfolio, 1.6 gigawatt, 49% sale straight equity, common equity, there is no structured cash flow allocation. We sell 49% of the cash flows. Very importantly, this was a competitive process. Very large investors, high-quality investors. So we're really happy that we are delivering this with such a quality phenomenal -- quantitative but quality outcome. And that is giving us confidence for the future. So as we look at the EUR 5 billion asset rotation target for the remainder of the period, so '26 to '28, approximately 4.5% in renewables. The rest will come from the rest of the EDP business, namely in the transmission. We are including in this asset rotation, those build and transfer projects that Miguel referred to. So this also helps not only to derisk in the sense of once you sign the contract, you pretty much signed already the asset rotation as well. And in terms of the capital gains, we consider that throughout the plan, we'll go back to a normalized capital gain of around 15% and over invested capital. And that pretty much should give us EUR 0.2 billion of capital gains on average per annum. The funding also has 2 important contributions. There is EUR 1 billion of disposals that we are considering in this plan. This means that we will be exiting countries and businesses that as of now, we don't feel that they are core to the growth of the company to '28 and even beyond '28. Those are markets are where we have established very small positions or we are on not seeing the synergies. We are not capturing the synergies from being there. So that's one element. There's another element which is not new to us and not new to the market, which is the tax equity market. So we target to raise about $1.5 billion of tax equity in the U.S. And maybe here just a couple of notes. So the first one is given that we'll have more investment in solar battery storage as opposed to wind. This skews the tax equity to ITC-based tax equity, not PTC-based tax equity. We estimate that we have about 40% of our invested capital in U.S. in the next few years, raised through tax equity structures. The fact that these are ITC-based structures has some implications. The first one is on earnings. As you know, we depreciate this over a 5-year period. But very importantly, from an economic exposure perspective, the moment the investor locks in or closes a project, he gets the ITC full. So if you look to our economic liabilities, we'll go from around USD 1.6 billion in '25 to around $1.4 billion in '28. So there's actually a decrease. And it's just because of the dynamics of how the ITC works. So we feel really comfortable that we will be able to raise this EUR 1.5 billion. We have been doing that since 2007. We have an excellent relationship with the largest investors and even the new ones that are coming into the market. So really comfortable that we will be delivering this one. So this is how we see the plan being fully funded. So we have a 12 building investment program, a gross investment, an additional EUR 2.5 billion in terms of dividend distribution. This is funded primarily through organic cash flow, EUR 9 billion cumulative throughout 3 years. And then we have another block, which is a combination of the asset rotation, the disposals as well as the tax equity funding. So at the end of the period, what we are seeing is a reduction of our net debt. So our target is to end this year with around EUR 16 billion, and the plan is to be at EUR 15 billion by the end of 2028. So there is a net debt reduction. And again, I'll just remind that we are showing an EBITDA increase and with a paired with a net debt reduction, which obviously supports the improvement of our financial ratios and our debt ratios. Our FFO net debt is expected to go from around 19% as we close this year to 22% by the end of 2028. So again, this shows that not only we are completely committed to our BBB balance sheet. We are improving the ratios. And this is also what gives additional flexibility from a balance sheet perspective to think in '28 and beyond. So life doesn't end in 2028. Actually, there's much more life to come after 2028. And it's super important to have this balance sheet reinforced by that moment. I'll spend a minute, if you don't mind, in Portugal. But I think we definitely see this as really positive. Portugal came from being a BBB company -- sorry, country in 2022 to an A-plus rated in 2025. The spreads are close to the minimum if you compare it to the German bond. The public financing net debt or debt over GDP is below 100%, it's at 91%. This obviously has a reflection in terms of the overall public accounts and the budget. So the government already approved that throughout these years, until 2018, there will be a reduction in corporate income tax. It will go down to 27.5% by 2028. That has a positive impact in terms of our earnings. Secondly, also already announced that it's included in 2026 budget, that special tax that is applicable to investments in what concerns new investments will not be applicable. So we want to have that burden in our books. We still believe that by the end of this period, we should also have a positive court ruling and that will -- that special tax will go away in 2028. But in what concerns the public financing, it's in a very, very well positioned. And obviously, this has also implications in terms of consumption, in terms of how the economy is growing. But also on the electricity system because not only Portugal today is one of the most affordable places in Europe in terms of consumer tariff. It's 25% below the European average, but also in terms of the system debt, which is converging to 0 within this period, again shows how sustainable the system is even today and moving forward. Cost of debt, and I will spend a little bit of time here on this slide just to explain the different building blocks on how cost of debt is evolving. So overall numbers, it will move from around 5% to 5.1%. I'll break these down only 3 different dynamics or blocks. So there is one coming from Brazilian real denominated debt. Brazilian real today is at 14% or the interest rate. We are looking at the forwards, it's coming down to 11%. Actually, today, probably is around 10%. All of our debt in Brazil is floating, so we will benefit from this. In terms of weight of the Brazilian debt into the overall portfolio is also reducing from 32% to 27%. Second, building block. What's happening to the euro and the U.S. dollar denominated debt. What's happening here is that we do have bonds that were issued some years back with extremely good components. So if you look to the bonds that are maturing in '26 and '27, the coupons are 1.7% and 1.8%. As we refinance these ones, and if you consider, for example, what we issued already in 2025. So senior bonds were issued at 3.4%, hybrid bonds were issued at 4.5%, as we refinance the maturing bonds in '26, '27, what we are assuming is that there will be an increased cost of funding. The third one, however, the building block is that when we get to 2028, our bonds maturing in 2028 are actually at the 4.1%, which are higher than today's refinancing costs. So what we are expecting is that we would see an increase in terms of the cost of funding for '26, '27 and then starting to decrease from '28 onwards. And that is basically what is justifying or these dynamics around the cost of funding. No big changes on our funding policies. We keep 80% of our funding through holding. We keep 80% our debt fixed. The 20% is primarily Brazil. And we have a funding according to the currency that we operate in the different countries. Again, just to highlight that U.S. There is a big funding coming through the tax equity and that obviously, you don't see this year on this debt allocated by currency. No change whatsoever in terms of our new issuances. We will -- all of our new issuances will be both green and are sustainable. That means that when we get to the end of '28, 90% of our stock will already be under this taxonomy. And it follows, obviously, the investment as you saw the investment is fundamentally into networks and renewables. And I think this is widely recognized by the investor community on the bond side as well as different indexes. One last word on the financials. Liquidity. We will keep our strong liquidity position and conservative policy. So we have at the end of September '25, EUR 9.4 billion of cash and equivalents. So plenty of space to refinance all of our needs throughout the period. The chart also includes the hybrids. As you know, the hybrids is different. We will be issuing new hybrids to refinance the existing ones so that we preserve the equity content that we can only have in the stock. So to finalize and just before I hand over to Miguel, again, this is showing strong financials as we deliver the strategy. We get our net profit to EUR 1.3 billion. If you compare straight to 2025, that's an additional 8%. 6% in terms of EBITDA compared to 2025 as well. Net debt coming down, so increasing EBITDA, reducing net debt from EUR 16 billion to EUR 15 billion. That supports that strong improvement on the FFO net debt and there for super keen to meet the BBB criteria and keep that strategic part of the plan. And last but not least, dividend also improving to the EUR 0.21 at the floor in 2028. And with this, I would hand over to Miguel for final remarks and happy to take questions later. Thank you.

Okay. So the final slides, just really to wrap up and then to pass the Q&A. The first is to wrap up the commitments, the EUR 12 billion investments, the focus on U.S. renewables and networks, the EUR 5 billion of asset rotation. And I think, again, the credibility to deliver on this. The EUR 1 billion of disposals, I think this is an important part also of the funding and the refocusing that we're doing. Efficiency. Again, I think, best-in-class. I would love to know others that are getting there. 80% EBITDA in A-rated markets, highly contracted profile, BBB rating. So these are some of the commitments. But very importantly, increasing EBITDA while decreasing net debt, and that gives us that optionality, increasing net income and increasing dividends, okay? So this is not let's say, something that is not clear because I think there are some sort of doubts about whether we are reducing debt or not. No. We are reducing debt, keeping that optionality and then we can manage that over the next couple of years. Why are we comfortable with this? As I say, a big part of the framework on the electricity side is already defined for the distribution. So there's not really very much risk there. There's only some potential upside over the next couple of weeks. Safe harbor. We already have more than 5 gigawatts, safe harbor. We can still work on that. We have until June to continue working on that if you want to upsize that. 2 gigawatts already secured for '26 and part of '27 and the supply chain, as I said, with good long-term visibility. So we feel pretty comfortable about the assumptions both on the distribution side and also on the renewable side. And then we have the optionality. As I say, I think we need to think we're running the business for the long term. This doesn't stop in 2028. This trend in the distribution business will go well beyond 2028 and up to 2030. I think I showed you that slide on the distribution, the assets that are sort of coming to the end of their useful life for 2040. That's a major step up versus the past that will stay there for the next coming years. On the FlexGen, we're in a great position to capture that, and that's a structural change also versus what happened in the past. We're not saying you assume what happened in 2025. So you can be a little bit more prudent than that. But it's certainly not going to go back to what it was when there wasn't that much solar or wind in the sector. And finally, EDPR. Structural demand growth in the U.S. and Europe, we're seeing that today. Repricing in the U.S., we're seeing that, and we already have a concrete data point and then a solid pipeline in the various different markets and the ability to leverage more on our existing assets, whether it's our hybridization strategy, whether it's on even, for example, thermal assets in Iberia, there is, let's say, that optionality that we can take advantage of that. And so we can continue to grow well beyond the business plan. And people may say, why are you not being even more aggressive in your growth? And I think what the message I really wanted to pass here is we are taking solid steps to invest with great projects. And as we go on seeing that optionality and capturing the optionality, we will then be able to accelerate. So we're not going to promise you things that we cannot deliver on. As we see those projects coming in, we will take advantage of that, and we will have the flexibility to be able to take on those projects and upsize that. So that's essentially, in a nutshell, the presentation, you'll see a moderate growth in networks over the many coming years, well beyond 2028. You see high growth in EDP renewables over the next coming years particularly on the earnings side, you see FlexGen capturing that optionality, that structural ancillary services in Iberia. And that's also something that we think is a long-term trend. And we'll have the balance sheet flexibility to then go on capturing growth beyond 2028. So that's a little bit the thesis of EDP. The focus is on profitable growth, focuses on value creation for shareholders. I just wanted to end with a thank you to all the teams that have worked on this and a lot of people here on the sidelines, leadership team, the various different corporate bodies. But above all, I think the 12,000 people at EDP. I know this represents a lot of work that's come bottom up, not just to get EDP to where we are today and through the many different sort of crisis and issues, but I think also to then work on the execution going forward. And I think it's really a privilege like highly talented team. I really am privileged myself [indiscernible] be here representing the wider team, but I think we really do have the right conditions to carry the company for it. So it's been great to talk to you. looking forward to the next couple of years of execution and delivery. And I think we can now turn it over to Q&A. So thank you. I'll pass it back to Miguel d' Andrade, and then we can take Q&A. Thanks.

Well, again, like we said, sorry for the initial issues in terms of webcast. We have 2,500 people connected. So this beginning a little bit more trouble. But then all the presentation, I think went quite well. And so we'll move now to the Q&A question. Again, from the website, if you want to make your questions, you can insert it in the text box, and we'll address here also the questions in the room to discuss other teams around the business plan presentation. I invite Miguel and Rui to come to the stage and to maybe we'll start with the first question. Maybe here, Javier Garrido.

Thank you. Good morning, and thank you for the presentation. Well, I have thousands of questions, but I will try to limit myself to three. First, on 2030, I agree with you that there is a lot of potential Vision 28. So talking two questions about the 2030 potential. Firstly, you showed the chart, bar chart with your capacitization to '28 and illustrating an increase in gross capacity additions for '29, '30, how much capacity will you have by then with the increase in FFO to net debt with a reduction in the debt, how much capacity will you have to 12 megawatts in '29 and '30? Second question on 2030. Previously, your strategy and you mentioned ESG is not -- your strategy was to be a 100% renewables company in 2030. It has not changed. What is your view on your gas assets for 2030 and beyond because the future of renewal gas is, let's say, a bit questionable. And then the third question for this plan period, '26, '28. You are talking of EUR 7.5 billion gross CapEx in EDPR to build 5 gigawatts of gross capacity. That's EUR 1.5 million per megawatt when you are building a lot of solar and batteries, how much -- I mean, there has been a lot of debate with your CapEx, '25, '26, you have contributions to Ocean Winds, et cetera. But now this is starting to be more a cleaner number. So can you elaborate first on what is your assumption for CapEx per megawatt per technology? And second, how much work in progress would you have at the end of the plan period? Because if I am correct, there might be a decent amount of work in progress at the end of this plan period.

So capacity additions beyond 2028. I think you'll see from the 5 gigawatts, so we're already assuming slightly more than EUR 1.5 million already in the business plan. And even so we're having that balance sheet net debt reduction. And so I think if you do the math, it will probably be like EUR 1.7 million or EUR 1.8 million that you'll have in 2028. I think going forward, we can upsize that to EUR 2 million plus. That will depend then also on the asset rotation strategy that we have at the time. So I think we can do then the maths on the multiples per megawatt to calculate the number of megawatts. But I could see us clearly going -- if we are already at, let's say, EUR 1.7 million, EUR 1.8 million in 2028, we could go higher than that because we'll have the balance sheet flexibility for that. Specific numbers will then depend on our strategy for funding and the asset rotation. On the ESG, it's a great question. I think we're still 5 years away from 2030, but I think one thing is for sure. I mean, gas continues to be a very important part of the mix, and it's not going to go away for the next many years. But it's -- I think you'll see that we've probably been the company that decarbonize our generation most already in terms of emissions intensity, in terms of the percentage of renewals in our mix. So we're not in a rush to sell the gas assets, and there are many different ways. I don't think the gas assets will go away. They'll certainly be in the system. The question is then whether you want to consolidate them or not. But I don't think it's a short-term question, so I have time to manage that. I think the road is more important than is the role that we've been going down, which is to decarbonize our generation and I think that track record is best in class. And I think that's our commitment. For the question on the CapEx per megawatt. So bear in mind that a big part of the CapEx in renewable is now going -- or more is going into the U.S. and U.S. has structurally higher CapEx per megawatt. And so even solar in the U.S. is at high multiples, and I'd probably say around EUR 1.5 million per megawatt. Europe will be lower, maybe EUR 0.7 million, but then you also have some wind assets, which will also be higher and so I don't know if you have any specific numbers, but that structural shift to the U.S. is already going to be pushing up your CapEx per megawatt sort of numbers.

So if I break it down, technology and markets. So as Miguel said, maybe starting with the solar. In Europe, average 0.7 in the U.S. 1.5 and some projects could be a bit higher than that. In Euro terms, let me give it all in euro to just be comparable. Wind actually U.S. is likely to be around the 1.5 but because it's a repowering what we are doing. And in itself, it also shows how valuable can be every powering in the U.S. it's not only about the repricing, but really the reduction of the cost per megawatt battery storage. I think it's ranging somewhere between 0.6, 0.7 in Europe and around 1.3 in U.S., and that's full cost, all-in cost. Okay. Regarding your question on working capital, I would say probably around the EUR 4 billion by 2028. So looking into what is the construction going into '29 and onwards, so give or take around the [indiscernible].

The next question here from Arthur Sitbon.

Just a first question, a follow-up to Javier's question on the unitary CapEx. I was wondering if there is any upside risk to this unitary CapEx assumption that could potential change a bit on deleveraging trajectory, knowing that there are still question marks in the U.S. on [ fear of ], I think, anti-dumping investigation as well. So that would be the first question. The second one was you touched in the presentation on the power land opportunities for data center. I was wondering if there is anything on that included in your guidance to 2028 or if that's just optionality on top of your numbers? And what can we hope there? Are there deals that could materialize in that time frame? What are your expectations around that?

Sorry, and your second question was the guidance beyond 2028 on?

[indiscernible].

On the powered lands. Yes. On the powered lands, I mean, those are opportunities that we're working on. Those could translate into two things, either one is new projects, but it can also -- and that would probably be the primary value driver would be existing projects that we have that we can share with a data center, and that can result in a slightly higher pricing, lower curtailment, particularly if it's co-located, better ancillary services. I mean -- but it's basically having some synergies with actually that co-location. And so I talked about, for example, the U.S. project because that's a good case. It's a project which is a little bit less performing, but it actually would be a good place in terms of land and et cetera. So that's on the powered land. I think in terms of the CapEx, the additional guidance.

So to be clear, whatever is secured that we are presenting is secured, we see no risk on that CapEx for several different reasons. A, we take no tariff risk. So that is by contract with the supplier with the OEM. The prices are locked in. There is no indexation. So that's clear. Even if you think now what is still not contracted, all the contract that we have with the [ First Solar ] is yet to be starting to be deployed in -- I mean we get the panels in '26, for delivery in '27, '28. So all of that is not subject to tariffs and definitely not subject to any [indiscernible] rules. The contracts that we have in place that we could start closing [indiscernible] start closing with other solar manufacturers. They will be from U.S. facilities. So as you know, we have been working with Longi and off-taking from their facilities in Ohio, we'll continue to do so. Again, we take not tariff risks. I think that we will still need to wait and see the clarification on the [indiscernible], but I would say probably more to the battery storage side, definitely, we don't see many issues on the solar side. So that's why we feel really comfortable with this CapEx plan. And of course, we'll see what the rules are in terms of [indiscernible], which is of today, probably what we expect is that not before the end of '26, we'll have that clarity.

Jenny Ping from Citi here in front.

So a couple of questions from me, please. Just firstly, Miguel, you talked several times about how conservative this plan is. Can you just kind of give us a feel of where you could be wrong both on the upside -- sounds more likely? And on the downside, so where are the moving parts where things could change from what you've set out? And then secondly, one for Rui. One the things that we've noticed in your results is obviously several impairments coming through one-off and that's you tidying up, I presume some of these sort of assets for noncore countries. Can you give us a sense of -- how much more of that is still to come? And I presume the sort of guidance you've set out today on the net income level is excluding any further adjustments as we look through into 2028? And then lastly, just on the FFO net debt numbers you talked to. This is more applicable for EDPR than EDP, but there are quite a bit of debate around the methodology rating agencies going to use looking forward around off-balance sheet debt, project financing debt. Has that been taken into account when you look at your FFO debt ratios and therefore, your net debt reduction targets?

Okay. I don't think I said conservative. I think I said we feel good about the plan and that we have the optionality as the projects arise to be able to commit to them and take them up. And so -- and I think I did mention is what we don't want is to be in a situation where we're either pressured to do the megawatts and sacrifice returns or we keep the returns, and then you'll tell us so we miss the megawatts. And so I think by taking this approach, what we're saying is we're seeing good prices, and you saw the PPA prices. We're seeing good repricing opportunities. And so we'll go and taking advantage of that. And as we go unlocking in those projects, we'll give you visibility on that. And we think that the sort of the 5 gigawatts is a pretty -- it's a healthy number. As we go unlocking in additional projects, we'll be able to upsize that. If the projects aren't there because the market crashes or whatever, okay, we haven't committed to doing those megawatts and -- but fortunately, at the moment, I think we are seeing that demand, and we are seeing the projects, and we are seeing the Googles and the Amazons calling us up and we can -- even after as we can talk about that. But like even this evening, we were talking about like getting like two big tech, which -- who do we go with like the project. So it is literally a seller's market. It's a great market to be in. But let's go step by step and then take advantage of that over the coming months and years. I'm not suggesting that it's conservative in that -- in the sense of like we're holding back or something.

So starting with the first question on the nonrecurring. Yes, we did that. I mean it's normal that every quarter and definitely every year-end, we'll just review not only the viability of the pipeline that we have in the different countries. And if we feel that it is not moving forward, then if there is any write-off, we will do it. I mean we've done that in the past, this summer and we do the same. When we think about those disposals, the EUR 1 billion disposals, we are not really considering any material impact in terms of additional write-offs. It will depend obviously on the price at which we sell, but we are not considering or we are not expecting anything material. On the project finance, maybe starting with the -- so we don't use a lot of project finance, as you know, the project finance that we use in projects that are consolidated by BP, that is treated as debt, that's normal. So we fully consolidate that debt, and we don't treat that as nonrecurring. So basically, we know that we will not or the rating agencies already know that we will not let those projects default, and therefore, they are part of the ratios where the increase since the inception of the JV in offshore Ocean Winds, I mean those projects, which we own at the 50%. And actually, at the project level, Ocean Winds sells down. Those are funded through project finance. And we are only booking whatever is a net contribution from Ocean Winds. We are not expecting any change whatsoever as of now. So we know that there is this report out but right now, we don't have any different view from what we have in the past. So we continue to treat that as our balance sheet. And of course, we have that equity injection into our books.

And Jen, sorry, I just realized I missed the second part of your question, which was the upsides and the downsides. So there are certain sensitivities and actually, you find them also in the appendixes of the document. But in terms of some of the key sensitivities, as you know, one is hydro. That's going to be up or down. That typically levels out over the long term. the power prices. That obviously impacts sort of our integrated margin principally. I'd say on the upside, there are certain things that are not in the context of this business plan, but we pointed to in terms of the repricing post 2028. I think those are some of the upsides that we're seeing. We're not capturing that within this business plan, but that could be obviously quite material in terms of the megawatts what I said. So I think we prefer to build up. So I wouldn't say there's an upside. There's an upside there, of course. But yes, that's what I'd say about that.

Next question here from Manuel Palomo from BNP.

I'll speak to three. The first one, I'm sorry to go back to the investments. Renewables historically, I think, has proven to be quite a cyclical business. As of today, it looks like there's a good amount of opportunity, good prices, pretty much everything looks pretty positive. So why not accelerating now? Why waiting up to 2028? That would be my first question. Second one and somehow linked to this. We all agree about these increases in demand, increasing power prices, particularly in the U.S., thanks to AI and data centers. So -- and you've shown that slide with the PPA prices going up materially. So I think in the case of the U.S., the reserve margin is already pretty tight. So there's need for electricity. So my question is what's preventing off-takers from signing PPAs or maybe developers? So that would be the question. And lastly, I'd like to ask you about the installed capacity in renewables because you're pointing to 5 gigawatts over the period '26, '28, that's the gross installation capacity. I don't know if deliberately you decided not to give us the net, but I'm going to ask about it. And just following up on that net capacity, I would like also to know whether that gigawatt of disposals is included there.

Manuel. So just on the first, and just to be very clear, '26 is locked. '25 is locked obviously, '26 is locked. Big part of '27 is locked in the sense that it's very difficult. Don't forget that the last 12 months, we were risk off. There was a huge amount of uncertainty in the sector, particularly in the U.S., a huge amount of like volatility about Big Beautiful Bill, about the IRS, about all that. And so we held off from signing PPAs for the future. So we are resuming that and making sure but the PPAs we are signing now. And as I say, we just came out yesterday, and I'm sure we'll come out with more. So that's happened, let's say, post summer. And so we're picking up basically to see now signing '27 and '28. So in terms of acceleration, we hope to be able to accelerate, let's say, more towards '28 and beyond. That doesn't mean that you won't see those being announced maybe over the 12, 18 months because that's when we would be signing them. So you won't need to wait for '28 to know if there's been an acceleration or not. You will know probably over the next 12, 18 months, how those megawatts for '28 and beyond are beginning to pan out. So I think the accelerating, we are accelerating, but you'll start seeing that probably from '28 and beyond. On the second point in the -- on the PPA prices, I'm not sure I quite understood. The PPA, Yes, the merchant has been trending up. So for example, I gave you that data point for one of the projects where we're signing a new PPA for 10 years, starting in 2029, already at a premium like I think it was an $11 per megawatt premium to the merchant price. I mean we have only about 4 terawatt hours merchant in 2029, 2030 and then about 12 terawatt hours from 2030 onwards. So a big part of the energy will only become available from 2030 onwards. And so that's where you can then see a more material let's say, increase in the number of megawatt hours that we can contract. But is that what you're asking?

My question was more on the PPAs on why you're not signing more PPAs [indiscernible] as you announced yesterday...

Well, we've resumed -- so don't forget that we weren't signing PPAs until end of August. Like we were not moving forward a negotiation because those until we have firm visibility on how the safe harbor was going to be on how the tariffs are going to be and sort of on the Big Beautiful Bill. And so we had good visibility on that. It was difficult in terms of negotiations to be able to sit down with the offtaker and say who's going to pay for the risk because six months ago, like if you don't know if the PTCs and ITCs are going to be around, like you're not going to commit to a PPA and that. And so basically, that's resumed post summer, and these things then take time to be able to develop the projects into -- or to develop the negotiations on the projects with the offtaker. So these things also take time, and that's basically started post summer. As I said, these are negotiations where we want to make sure that we are derisking. And so we are comfortable on the project that we have the permitting all in place. We don't want to take risk on permitting in the U.S. Trust me, it's not a good time to go out and commit to doing PPAs and then you suddenly look around and okay, well, actually, [ experiments ] are not there or the interconnection is not there. So even in terms of the way we are approaching the project, we're taking a lower risk approach to make sure that when we're locking in, we're looking in the CapEx, we're looking in the -- we've got perfect line of sight on the permitting, on the interconnection. So we're not going to commit to PPAs in this current context, we're not going to be committing to PPAs without certainty that we will then be able to deliver the projects as well. And so I think that's something which maybe will take a little bit more time. But we don't -- we will not put ourselves in a position where we are taking on a liability that we can then deliver on. On the installed capacity, it's very straightforward, 5 gigawatts growth, about 2.5 gigawatts net asset rotations, so 2.5 net installed capacity and then about 1 gigawatt disposals. We are, let's say, disposals is also a relevant part, not just with the funding, but also in terms of the megawatts that we're assuming we will be divesting to then reinvest in the core markets.

Pablo Cuadrado there from JB Capital.

Two questions on my side. One will be on the regulatory reviews, particularly on the Portuguese one. You hinted before that the [ 633 ] is not enough but you have allocated EUR 1.7 billion of CapEx. So I was wondering whether that figure is written on a stone or basically you can be touching that during the plan, whatever you see on December. And also it would be good if you can also share a little bit of details on the 100 basis points of, let's say, additional return that you are seeing, looking efficiencies, [ quite ] services and et cetera. And the second question is also, I don't know if you can comment a little bit on how you see the integrated margin on liberalized activities. I think you mentioned as well that you are seeing clients and somehow not growing. Clearly, the competitive landscape has been difficult in Spain, at least what we have seen in the last few quarters. And yes, power prices, if we look the forward curves provider going down a little bit. But how have you reflected that in the assumption of the plan, and it will be good to have an idea.

Sure. So on the regulatory review. So we are allocating about the [ 1.7 ]. That's -- we have some flexibility. The [ 633 ], we don't believe will be the final number. We think that there are good rational arguments to make to the regulator to have a bump on that in the final proposal. But in any case, we can adjust somewhat the CapEx. This is the headline number. I mean this is what typically most of us focus on, but there are a lot of other parameters which have improved. For example, efficiency gains are now split 50-50 before there were 75%, 25%. So that's an additional upside. In terms of the actual efficiency, it used to be inflation minus 0.75%. It's now minus 0.5%. It gives you a little bit more upside there. So there are other regulatory parameters, which typically, we don't talk about as much but that has improved as well. So it's important not just to take the headline number, but let's say, the expected overall return, and that has improved. And then the other thing that's also improved significantly is the fact that we don't have the extraordinary tax. And so that's also a big bump in our returns in Portugal versus where we were in the past. So between 0.85 of the non-extraordinary tax, plus the -- of about 0.8 of the already improvement to the [ 633 ] [indiscernible] even a little bit higher. We could be talking about closer to 2% bump in terms of returns on the regulatory in Portugal. But this is playing out. I think the regulator has been constructive. There's still room to play over the next couple of weeks, and we'll see what happens. Sorry. So that was on the regulation. On the integrated margin, look, I don't know if I can completely understand your question. The clients are relatively flat. But I think the team has done a great work in just -- like in this year, in particular, we've completely changed our game in Portugal in terms of the competitiveness of our strategy, in terms of like stabilizing the net adds. Obviously, with the incumbent in Portugal. And so it's natural that you go on losing some market share. That's pretty stabilized or stabilized much more. We actually have some net adds over the last couple of weeks versus the past. So we're stable sort of around 60% market share. I think we've managed to find a good balance between being competitive and having a reasonable margin in our business. Is that -- I'm not sure -- is that what you're asking about in terms of -- Okay. Great.

I think we have here Gonzalo from UBS.

I have a couple of -- well, I'll say themes to go through. I'd like to go a little bit deeper on the U.S. side of things. First, a clarification on the 5 gigawatts, do you have safe harbor? Is that including both the old and the new regime? And I guess the question there is how much more you think you can add or how much more are you working to add in before the end of the [indiscernible] period? That's one. And then the follow-up on that, which links a little bit with what we've been talking about before is whether that would drive higher additions, I guess, within the plan. So basically, not in '26, '27 as you've already mentioned. But whether it is soon enough in '28 to get more out of that or not? Then the next question on the U.S. side would also be on -- I'm quite curious about the conversations you're having. I mean you've mentioned the [indiscernible] market and you're having these debates with which -- with hyperscaler going with or not. Traditionally, if I'm not wrong, and I guess that's the question, you've been focused more on signing PPAs with utilities rather than hyperscalers or tech companies, although you have a good combination of both, but there's been more on one side or the other. I'm curious about how you think about this, where the market is changing, whether you are seeing different dynamics based on obviously the demand increase and how this is going. So that's the first kind of group. Second group of questions, Sorry, I'm -- it's taking a bit long. This one is shorter. I'm going to make the question anyway. And I'm anticipating [indiscernible] I guess, but are you seeing any changes in the corporate structure between EDP and Ocean Winds? And I guess a follow-up there, which I think might change your view in some years is if you are thinking about all of these increases in prices renegotiating all the contracts in the next 5 to 10 years, particularly in the U.S., will you leave some money in the table with all these minorities within the structure at different levels? So those are the very long questions.

Thank you, Gonzalo. So in terms of safe harboring, you mean old regime, new regime, the 5% like working, so what we had in -- so we have about 1.5 gigawatts that was safe harbored already at the end of 2024. I said probably that's mostly old regime, let's call it the 5%. Since we -- when we started getting more visibility sort of before the summer about how the safe harboring rules we're going to change for the summer sort of during July and then August, we also started moving much more towards the specific assets metric. That's actually an easier one to do than the 5% because it actually is cheaper. I mean, to be honest, in terms of the optionality, you need to put in less money to get the same basic outcome. So what we did do is make sure and working obviously with the team and the lawyers and the regulation guys to make sure that there is no doubt about our qualification for those safe harboring. So you need to have those specific assets, let's say you ask for a specific transformer, it needs to be allocated to a specific project, and that's being worked on. So I'd say the remaining, let's say, 1.5 was in 2024, a big part of the rest is probably under the newer regime. [indiscernible], correct me if I'm wrong, but -- or Miguel. But -- and then what we do going forward until mid-2026, which is when we can still go on safe harbor and additional projects that will be under the new regime. That was the first one. More additions 2028. I think the question there, I mean I think I've talked about it, but -- so we're assuming about 1.7, 1.8. Your question is can we do more like.

I guess that's based on the 5 gigawatts [indiscernible] 7 gigawatts on top of [indiscernible]

It will be towards the end of the decade. '28, '29, '30, that would be sort of the range when we would start getting projects locked in. So as we go on getting more visibility on the -- we'll have visibility on the safe harboring and we have to try to tie that up with PPAs and with the negotiations that are ongoing and with our existing pipeline of projects, to make sure we can triangulate between all of those. And then as I say, over the next month or so, we'll be giving more visibility on what we're already locked in for '27, '28 and -- and beyond that, we'll need to wait till end of '26, '27 to then start getting visibility on '29 and '30. So I think that's one of the things that typically we don't lock in things with three years in advance because then that also puts you in a big position of risk unless you can -- because you [indiscernible] lock in also the CapEx with all of that sort of time ahead. So as I say, I think the point here is to make sure we're getting good returns, but also derisking the projects so that we can deliver them with the returns that we want. The conversations with the high tech. I think I showed this slide, we have more than 3 gigawatts already signed with the high tech and a lot of the conversations are going on also with the high tech. It's true that we also have good relationships with the utilities. I wouldn't say necessarily the dynamics have changed. I mean, let's say, the intensity has probably changed. We're seeing the utilities being very aggressive now about their demand growth. You saw AEP, you can talk about the NIPSCO. I mean, they are seeing a lot of load growth in their region and they are having to procure. And as I mentioned, a lot of them are then resorting BTAs and -- build transfer agreements. And so we're seeing more of those. But I'd say we have pretty good relationships with both the big tech and the utilities. And then it's a question of what are the projects that they are most interested in and sort of [indiscernible] that's through in the discussions. On the issue of the corporate structures, I mean, you can probably guess the answer of it. I'd say don't assume any changes, keeping the current structure. I don't think it's a question of leaving money on the table. I mean, we have more than 70% EDP, more than 70% of EDPR. So that will flow through naturally to GDP. And at OW level, as I say, our focus there is extracting value. So it's not taking risky growth or sort of merchant positions or -- I mean we've seen a lot of auctions actually go deserted with no one actually showing up those auctions. So I think there is also a fundamental just change in mindset about the way that people are approaching those types of auctions. And certainly, in our case, we are very conscious of the fact that these are very long. I mean people are worried about solar and wind, which take maybe 18 months -- 24 months between sort of starting to get a CapEx to time to cash. I mean in the case of offshore, it's really long. So you need to be very comfortable that you've locked in all of those risks, whether it's on the CapEx side, whether it's on the interest rate side to make sure you don't lose money in that process because if you're out for 4, 5, 6 years just in the development of those projects. Well, and I don't need to mention names, but you can be out by a lot of money very, very quickly. So we don't want to take that type of risk on the offshore business, and that's been our position in the [indiscernible] partnership.

Maybe I would just also complement on the minorities, just to be clear. So the 49% sale that we did this year in the U.S. in the plan, we are not considering to replicate that. So in the plan, what you can find is in the U.S., we typically sell 80%. That has been the structure, but we need to keep some skin in the game. In Europe or elsewhere, we'll sell 100%. So there is no new minorities coming in through the asset rotation.

Pedro from Caixa Bank.