EFC (I) Limited ($512008)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the EFC India Limited Q4 FY '26 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Nikunj Sheth from MUFG. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Alrik. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Q4 and FY '26 Earnings Conference Call of EFC India Limited. To discuss this quarter performance, we have from the management, Mr. Umesh Sahay, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Nikhil Bhuta, Whole-Time Director; Mr. Uday Vora, Chief Financial Officer; and Mr. Aman Gupta, Company Secretary. Before we proceed with this call, I would like to mention that some of the statements made in today's call may be forward-looking in nature and may involve risks and uncertainties. For more details kindly refer to the investor presentation and other filings that can be found on the company's website and stock exchanges. With that, I would now like to hand over the call to Mr. Umesh Sahay for his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Thank you. Good morning, all. On behalf of EFC India Limited, I warmly welcome all of you to our earnings conference call for the fourth quarter and full year ended March 2026. At the outset, I would like to thank all of our shareholders, investors, analysis Banarli partner and every member of the EFC family for their continued trust encouragement and support. Your confidence in our journey has been a very important source of a trend for us. The financial year to 2026 has been a year of strong progress disciplined execution and deeper strategy clarity for EFC. During the year, we continue to strengthen our position as differentiated real estate as a service company built around 1 integrated platform across space design and furnishing. Our leasing business continued to provide a strong annuity-led foundation. Our design and build vertical is gaining momentum through trunk and multicity execution. Our furniture business is strengthening that word integration and helping us improve control over cost, quality and delivery time lines. Together, these 3 verticals create a platform that is much stronger than each business on a stand-alone basis. Leasing give us a recurring revenue and client stickiness design and build give us execution capability and growth momentum. Furniture gives us a supply chain control and margin resilience. This combination is what made EFC differentiated. We also continue to focus on the quality of growth, enterprise entering revenue, long-line tenure, improving portfolio diversification and a disciplined approach to expansion are important pillars of our strategy. We are not pursuing growth for the sake of growth. We are building a company that can scale sustainably long-term value creation at its core. The opportunity has remained very strong. India continued to benefit from the expansion of GCC global capability center, technology company, financial services, consumer business and enterprise. Across sector companies are increasingly looking for managed flexible and integrated workspace solution that reduced upfront capital expenditure and improve speed to market. We believe ESG is very well positioned to benefit from these structured trends. Our platform has the execution that client relationship and integrated capabilities required to this demand across India. As we enter FY '27, our focus will remain clear we will continue to expand with discipline, improve asset efficiency, strengthen enterprise relationship, scale our design and build capability enhance our furniture manufacturing advantage and create long-term value for all stakeholders. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank our Board, leadership team, employees, client, partner and shareholder. The progress we have made is the result of collective effort, resilience and belief in shared result. We remain humble about what we have achieved, but very confident about the road ahead. EFC today is a stronger, more integrated and better prepared for the next phase of growth. With that, I now hand over the call to Mr. Nikhil Bhuta, Whole-time Director, who will take you through the business performance and strategic progress, our vertical. Thank you, sir.

Thank you very much, Umesh, sir. Good morning, everyone, and thank you so much for joining us today. It's generally a pleasure to welcome all of you and share about the business performance of EFC Limited for FY '26. This has been an important year and a milestone year for the company because the strength of our integrated real estate as a Service platform has become more visible across all our operating verticals. At EFC, our business is built around 3 specialized but deeply connected verticals as we understand, which is leasing, design and build and furniture. Together, these vertical across the complete workspace life cycle from identifying and managing races to designing and building it to manufacturing and supplying furniture. This is the sense of EFC's model, one platform, multiple engines and unified value creation. Our aim is to become a trusted partner for enterprises that want to outsource their workplace infrastructure to a professional, scalable and accountable platform like us. We are not only off-line office spaces, we are offering speed, convenience, cost efficiency, execution certainty and long-term operating support. Let me begin with the leasing hotel, which continues to remain the foundation of our business. Our leasing vertical has delivered strong performance and continues to demonstrate a sticky enterprise demand at scale. We now have presence across 25 cities and serve more than 750 clients across multiple sectors. Our average enterprise client in or is about 51 months which reflects the strength, trust and stickiness of our client relationship. The leasing business provide customized, scalable and fully furnished office solutions, this include enterprise offices, managed offices and customized offices. Our solutions are designed for companies that want privacy, control, flexibility operational efficiency and speed of deployment without taking on the burden of building and managing real estate infrastructure themselves. During the year, the quality of our leasing portfolio continued to improve. Enterprise entrant revenue contributed a majority share of the business and the contribution from the top 10 client has reduced to around 24%, reflecting lower concentration risk and hence, better diversification. This gives platform great resilience and revenue visibility. Operationally, the leasing business has also scaled well. The build seats base has increased meaningfully, and we continue to have additional capacity under development. This gives us confidence in our ability to support future growth. The business also continues to demonstrate attractive unit economics with a payback period around 18 to 20 months and healthy revenue to rent dynamics. Geographically, our business is well diversified. While the West remains our largest region, we have a meaningful presence across North, South and East India. This national-wide presence is important because many of our enterprise clients are expanding across multiple cities and want a partner who can support them consistently across locations across the country. The demand environment for managed office remains structurally strong. Enterprises today are increasingly moving from ownership heavy CapEx-led real estate models to flexible, professionally mine 10 OpEx-led models. Global capability centers, GCC technology companies, BFSI clients, consumer platforms and other and large enterprises are all looking for faster market entry, better employee experience and lower set of risk and greater flexibility. EFC is well positioned to serve this demand because we provide not only space but a complete workplace infrastructure solution. Let me now move to our Design & Build vertical, which is also slowly but steadily has become a very strong foundation for our company's growth. This business has become a very important growth engine for EFC. In FY '26, Design & Build revenue stood at approximately INR 437 crores, growing 66% year-on-year. This performance reflects stronger execution, increasing turnkey mandates and growing acceptance of our capabilities among enterprises and institutional clients. Our design-in build vertical provides end-to-end workplace development solutions. So we work across concept planning, workload design, fit-outs, NEP services, project management, execution and delivery. The business has over 80 designers and engineers more than 45 reputed clients present across more than 15 locations, a design footprint of approximately 5.5 million square feet. The order book also remains very healthy and really strong. This vertical is strategically important because it tells in the entire EFC platforms. It enables faster fit-outs for our leasing businesses, better customization for clients quicker go live time lines and stronger execution control. It also allows us to take up large complex and multi-locational projects with confidence. Another important vantage is our execution model. We execute a large part of the work through in-house capabilities, supported by bulk procurement, strong vendor relationship and disciplined project management. This helps us control costs, quality and time release. in a market where clients increasingly demand transparency, speed and reliability, this is a major differentiator. The designer vertical also creates significant cross-selling opportunities. A client may begin with a designable mandate, the large later become a managed office client. Similarly, a leasing client may use us for expansion fit-outs, refurbishment or multicity workplace denim. This interconnection increases lifetime value and strengthen our platform economics. Now let me speak about the furniture manufacturing vertical also. Our furniture business is still in a relatively early stage compared to the leasing and design win verticals, but it is strategically very, very important. In FY '26, furniture revenue stood at more than INR 63 crores, growing 200% Y-o-Y. The strong growth demonstrates the potential of this vertical and its role in our integrated model. Through our furniture capabilities with design and manufacture workstations, execution desk lounge seating, storage solutions, modular furniture and other products for commercial and allied spaces. Our 1 manufacturing facility spans across 1.2 lakh square feet and gives us better control over quality, cost, customization and delivery. The furniture business has more than 1,500 SKUs has delivered more than 60,000 late and has manufactured capacity of approximately anything around INR 200 crore-plus to INR 275 crores. in value terms. The business sells sectors such as real estate, core living, hospitality, IT ITAs, education and allied services. For EFC, furniture is not just a manufacturing business. It's a margin accretive, backward integration engine. It supports our internal leasing and design-and-build requirements, reduces value dependency improves turnaround time and allows us to capture additional value across the workplace life cycle. This is where the synergy of EFC platforms becomes very powerful. When we take up a workplace opportunity, our leasing team understands the clients' requirement. Our design inability converts the requirement into a functional and efficient workplace. And our furniture team supports execution through in-house manufacturing and supply chain control and provides which are really making a difference to their daily work life. This reduces external dependency, improves execution speed enhances quality control and supports margin resilience. This integrated model also improves value and looking for investors over time as each vertical scale the benefit do not remain limited to those verticals alone. The leasing and business creates a recurring revenue and long-term client relationship. The Design & Build business increases execution of depth and cross-selling opportunities and the furniture business improves cost control captures additional margins together, they create a platform with multiple revenue streams, better operating leverage and a stronger client stickiness. This is the core of our value creation strategy at EFC. We believe that the market with increasing the reward platforms that are integrated, scalable, asset-efficient and execution focus. EFC is building exactly such a platform and has really come a long way in building this with the results that we have delivered for FY '26. Our business is no longer dependent on only one revenue stream. We are creating a broader ecosystem that can serve clients across the full workers' journey and capture value at multiple points. Operationally, FY '26 has been a year of strong progress across all fronts. We scale capacity, deepen enterprise relationships, reduce concentration risk, strengthen Design & Build execution, expanded furniture capabilities and improve integration across all verticals. This results is a business that is more diversified, more efficient and better prepared for sustainable growth. As we look ahead, our priorities are very clear. We will continue to deepen enterprise relationships, expand capacity in a disciplined manner, improve asset efficiency and strengthen project execution, scale our design-in will business and build financial manufacturing into minimal but a strategic advantage. We are optimistic about the future because the structural opportunity is large. The demand environment is favorable, and our integrated platform is becoming stronger with every buyer. At the same time, we remain grounded and focused on execution. Our objective is to build EFC with discipline, professionalism, governance and long-term thinking. We want to create a company that delivers value not only through growth but through quality of growth. In summary, FY '26 has validated our business model. Leasing gives us stability, Design & Build give us growth and execution strength, while Furniture gives us integration and margin opportunities. Together, these verticals create a strong, scalable and differentiated real estate as a service platform. We believe this platform can unlock significant value for stakeholders in the way. With that, I will hand over the call to our Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Uday Vora, who will take you through the financial performance. Thank you all. Thank you all for being with us today.

Thank you, Nikhil, sir. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us on the call. I will now take you through the financial performance of EFC India Limited for the fourth quarter and full year ended March 31, 2026. FY '26 has been a strong year of financial delivery for the company. We have delivered broad-based growth across revenue, profitability, return ratios and segmental performance. The year also reflects the operating strength of our integrated platform and the benefits of scale across our leasing, Design & Build and furniture business. For the full year FY '26, consolidated revenue from operations stood at INR 10,367 million compared with INR 6,567 million in FY '25, representing year-on-year growth of 58%. EBITDA for FY '26 stood at INR 4,683 million compared with INR 3,277 million in FY '25, reflecting a strong growth of 43%. Profit after tax stood at INR 2,347 million compared with 1,408 million in FY '25, registering a strong growth of 67%. Our cash margin improved from 21.4% in FY '25 to 22.6% in FY '26. This improvement reflects the benefits of operating leverage, stronger execution, better integration across verticals and disciplined cost control. Our return profile also remains strong. The return on capital employed stood at 33% in FY '26 compared with 30% in FY '25. This is an important metric for us because it shows that the company is not only growing, but growing with capital efficiency. Coming to the fourth quarter performance. Revenue from operations in quarter 4 FY '26 stood at INR 2,929 million compared with INR 2,110 million in quarter 4 FY '25 representing growth of 39% year-on-year. EBITDA for the quarter stood at INR 1,436 million compared with INR 1,093 million in quarter 4 FY '25, registering a growth of 32%. Profit after tax for Q4 FY '26 stood at $689 million compared with $480 million in quarter 4 FY '25, reflecting growth of 45%. PAT margin for the quarter improved to 23.5% from 22.7% in Q4 FY '25. This shows that even as the business scales, we are continuing to maintain healthy profitability. Let me now briefly cover the segmental performance. The leasing must remain the largest contributor to revenue. Full year rental revenue stood at approximately INR 5,356 million, compared with INR 3,722 million in FY '25, representing growth of around 44%. This vertical continues to provide a stable recurring revenue base and strong operating visibility. The Design & Build business delivered revenue of approximately $4,378 million in FY '26 compared with INR 2,636 million in FY '25, reflecting growth of around 66%. This has been driven by stronger execution, increasing turnkey mandates and cross-selling opportunities across the EFC platform. The furniture business delivered revenue of approximately $632 million in FY '26 compared with $209 million in FY '25, registering growth of around 202%. While this vertical is still scaling, it is strategically important because it supports backward integration, improved execution speed and strengthen margin potential across the ecosystem. From a segment profitability perspective also, all 3 businesses contributed meaningfully. The Rental segment delivered profit before tax and interest of approximately INR 2,127 million. The Interior segment delivered approximately INR 1,197 million and the furniture segment delivered approximately INR 156 million. This reflects a healthy and broad-based contribution from the platform. Moving to the balance sheet. Total assets increased to approximately INR 26,751 million as of March 31, 2026, compared with INR 16,992 million as of March 31, 2025. Total equity increased to approximately INR 8,137 million compared with INR 5,811 million in the previous year. This strengthening of the balance sheet reflects retained earnings and the continued growth of the company. During the year, noncurrent assets increased driven by property, plant and equipment, right-of-use assets and other financial assets. This reflects our continued investment in building long-term capacity and operating infrastructure. On the liability side, lease liabilities and borrowings have increased in line with the expansion of our operating footprint and business scale. We remain conscious of capital discipline and we'll continue to focus on efficient capital deployment and prudent leverage. On cash flows, profit before tax for FY '26 stood at approximately INR 3,089 million. As the business scaled across verticals, working capital requirements increased particularly in trade receivables, inventories and other financial assets, improving working capital efficiency and collections will remain an important priority for us in FY '27. Finance costs for the year stood at approximately INR 562 million, and depreciation and amortization stood at approximately INR 1,202 million. These are aligned with the scale of our asset base and right of lease efforts. Basic and diluted earnings per share for FY '26 stood at 16.87% compared to 10.35% in FY '25. Overall, FY '26 has been a year of strong financial performance. Revenue growth has been robust. EBITDA has grown meaningfully. PAT growth has been strong. Margins have improved. Return ratios remain healthy. And all 3 business verticals have contributed to the company's performance. What is important is that this performance has not come from a single lever. It has come from broad-based execution across the platform. Leasing has provided stability, design and build has provided growth momentum. Furniture has added integration and margin potential. Together, these businesses are creating a stronger and more resilient financial model for EFC. As we move into FY '27, our financial priorities will remain very clear. We will continue to focus on profitable growth and disciplined capital allocation, efficient working capital management, prudent leverage, stronger cash generation and sustainable value creation. We believe the company is well placed to continue its growth journey while maintaining financial discipline and creating long-term value for shareholders. With this, I would like to thank all our investors, analysts and stakeholders for their continued support and confidence in EFC. We can now open the floor for questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of [ Bharat ] with Compact Capital.

Congratulations for the wonderful results for FY '26. Sir, I wanted to understand, as we understand there are 3 verticals at EFC leasing, design and build and furniture. So if any of the vertical is underperformed, how this will impact the overall consolidated margin especially when you have explicitly mentioned in deals like underperforming of any vertical can impact the overall profitability. So I would love to understand what is the management view.

Thank you so much, Bharat. And specifically to your question, yes, the beauty of this model is that as we understand that they are all contributing to the overall profitability, overall revenue stream that the company has really accruing. But what is important is that the dependency, as you can -- as you understand from your own question, dependency is very limited because number one, the likeliness of underperforming by annuity business, which is my leasing business is very low because my an business is very certain I have very clear long-term contracts. And as you see in my -- even in my presentation, we have said that my managed office client tenure is at 51 months, which means that, that kind of stickiness is there and that kind of certainty is there in the revenue. So leasing vertical is providing me that strong backbone. So hence, underperformance at leasing vertical is almost rolled out. When it comes to the Design & Build vertical, the Design & Build vertical, again, now we have come into a situation where today, we are -- as a company, when we are bidding for projects, we are only those among top 3, top 5 kind of contractors who are eligible to bid for contracts more than INR 50 to INR 100 crore to INR 200 crore kind of size. And hence, again, we are among those limited competition and our ability to win those contracts becomes much, much better. And hence, again, there is a larger certainty then in that business, and hence, uncertainties is almost rolled up. And when it comes to furniture, which is primarily kind of supporting both this vertical, number one, which is one of its key. And secondly, the way the furniture business in our country growing considering the new regulations that the government is putting in form of BIS registration and also how the government is looking at reducing the import dependency because obviously, it is impacting the foreign exchange for us. So all these measures are really, really working well for even furniture vertical. And hence, first of all, what I want to address is that uncertainties around any of these 3 verticals is reduced drastically, number one. Number two, yes, there is, let's say, depends -- if there is a little bit downgrade in any of the business then whether they will have an impact on the overall margin profile? In absolute terms, yes. But if you look at it in relative terms, as I've explained, more than 45% of my revenue, my top line comes from the music business, which gives me kind of a situation that 50% is a short any choice. It is a question of about those 10% to 20%. If there is -- if we look at hypothetically and get into a situation, I think there is a little bad year from an overall economical situation point of view, then too the performance is unlikely to get really affected overall. So we believe that any underperformance from 1 particular vertical, which is likely only to be with the Design & Build and furniture because it is more project-based and contract base, which is because of the reason which I explained earlier, is fairly mitigated. We believe that, that situation is unlike to, first of all, the substitutions are unlikely to come and otherwise also, we are strongly balanced in achieving the overall margin through these 3 verticals as we speak.

Okay. Another question. Can I please ask please?

Yes.

So I believe furniture business has grown pretty well 200%, but the growth is on the low base. So I would like to understand what is the sustainable margin, especially when furniture business is used for the internal consumption captive business also and third party? So I would love to understand what is the split between the captive consumption and the third-party business and how margin split works at overall level as well?

So I mean, independent of whether it is an internal purpose or for external, obviously, the margin profile remains the same because every transaction has to be carried out at arm's length, number one. Number two, in terms of scalability, yes, this vertical obviously has grown at a lower base naturally because it's just a 2-year old business. So yes, it is likely to keep growing at such large pace, and we are expecting this business to deliver substantially to our overall revenue streams. In terms of margin profile, we have always clarified that we are very categorically clear that this business should generate to us anything around 25% EBITDA and that is what we are expecting from this business because this is a value accretive, highly intensive -- capital-intensive business. And hence, we are very hopeful that we should be able to continue achieving those margins even if at the scale that we are expecting to operate in the coming years.

The next question comes from the line of Mohan Kumar with Athena Investments.

I have a question around the AI, which we see everywhere around. As you know, AI can reduce head count intensity in the sectors which you are serving, primarily IT, BFSI and our support functions. It is primarily our clients. Why should AI be net positive for demand rather than a structural that occupancy? And what evidence do you have from your client renewals or new mandates or from any other information source.

Yes. No, thank you so much. And AI certainly is the new buzzword. I mean, I don't know we can see it around, but yes, we can definitely fill it around and say, it is really disrupting the market. And yet, it is here for good. It is here for business process improvements, and we are very happy that such improvement such radical changes really helps businesses in general. But I mean, we haven't really rather seen any negative impact of that. I mean the way if you really look at it, and I'm sure you would appreciate the kind of is rather generating a new grid of employment, new category of employment, and we are very categorically clear that with the AI-led businesses, your businesses would get a little more structured. And hence, when you are looking at more structured businesses, the platforms like us, which for those structured solutions will become more relevant and more important for those businesses. And so what we are trying to say is that, yes, there is going to be an impact on the overall -- the way the employment market functions, overall industries, whether it is IT, IT-led industries. But this is all going to really add to the overall growth. because it is an evolution. And I mean, Umesh sir, MD sir has also been very vocal about this, and I'd also request him to contribute here a bit.

[indiscernible], your question is to how we impact in our business, correct? [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

So the GCC contributes -- I mean, because these are all those large enterprises who are committed to us for long tenures. So that business has always been a strong pillar for our leasing vertical growth. And it is about 70% of our revenue comes from these large enterprise customers that we're talking about are referring to. And in terms of -- across the city spread, if you look at it, we are looking at growing around 18,000 to 20,000 seats year-on-year, and that is what we've been achieving for the last 2 financial years as well. If you look at the same scale, we are expecting that between geography rather than getting citizen just giving you zone-wise, let's say, West and NCR is going to become very prominent for us, along with southern belt, which is your Hedebad, Bangalore and Chennai. So we believe that all the 3 these zones are going to contribute substantially primarily in the ratio of, let's say, around equally around 30% each. And there is about expected growth now from the -- even the Eastern belt with the change in the political dynamics there, et cetera. We are expecting the growth also coming in soon there. Obviously, it will take some time structurally but yes, we are expecting, hence, substantial growth in the Eastern side also relatively. So yes, I hope that answers your question in terms of the divisions across this geography for us.

The next question comes from the line of Hasan with Kotari Family Office.

Firstly, congratulations on the results and [indiscernible] of the right issue succeeding onsite. So my question, sir, basically is that I have been tracking the stock and year-on-year the growth has been significant. You have shown good substantial profitability. Then why did we raise the capital for working capital? So what was the reason for the working capital? And having said that, how will the working capital turn into real cash flow generation and not just a revenue or receivable or lease obligation in the balance sheet.

Thank you so much and for taking us following us. And I mean, 2 business, I mean, as we've always explained that all 3 of our businesses, while they are not heavy capital intensive in a sense that they're not fixed capital intensive, but they are certainly working capital incentive intensive, not leasing, but certainly the Design & Build and the furniture business. and hence, the requirement for whatever with the growth that we are achieving. You can see we -- last year in the Design & Build vertical, we've grown at about 6% Y-o-Y. And in the furniture, we have grown at about 200% Y-o-Y. Now even if I have to maintain half of this growth, the kind of working capital that we require is humongous. And yes, the business is throwing good cash for us because the kind of profitability that we have achieved. But certainly, these profits are not kind of available to you as it is a cyclical fund that is available to you. And to keep growing, you need to have those backup funds with you. in the current economic situations in the current market situations. And it is required that if we have those watches available, then we will be able to achieve the targets that we have really set high for ourselves. So the working capital is certainly to really fuel the growth that we have targeted for ourselves. And we are going to be very -- as even our CFO, very categorically explained in his speech, that we're going to be very judicious in use of this capital. We're going to be very specific and disciplined in use of this capital. And primarily, this capital, as Mr. [indiscernible] explained, is primarily for growth purposes only since all these verticals are fairly working capital intensive.

Can I ask 1 more question, please?

Yes, please go ahead.

Sir, again, related to fundraise only. So we did a right issue. So I just want to understand in CSC my understanding is currently undervalued, I would say, not correctly valued it can be good potential. Then why did with right issue, which soon data.

First of all, it was important for us that we've got a very fairly committed and a loyal set of existing shareholders. And it becomes our kind of a moral responsibility. We obviously go and approach them and seek their participation in the business as long as they are also kind of committed with us, we will be more -- we need to kind of reciprocate accordingly. So first, we thought that this is a good option accordingly. The second naturally also, if you look at our overall plan that yes, we do have a plan to do a lot of CapEx going forward down the line. And we'll certainly use the QIB route, which is necessary for us to bring in a lot of institutional business. But right now, since the capital requirement was very limited, we thought that going to our existing set of loyal customers, shareholders would really take care of the requirement. And that was specifically the reason why we just gone to the existing -- to adopt the right issue route over the other available options under the market here.

Okay. Sure. But why don't that then?

No, debt is also there. I mean, if you see on the balance sheet, that is also there. I mean this capital, obviously, will be used as a margin for raising more capital. Capital will use for as a base for now today, let's say, if my working capital cycles are large, if my working capital commitments are large, then there will be certain capital which you're required as a seed from the company. And that seed will come to this. So that is what we are planning. It is not that the debt is not considered. Obviously, an optimal debt to equity ratio is necessary for us to maintain the profitable margins. And it will continue to be part of the overall the capital deployment strategy for the company.

The next question comes from the line of [indiscernible] with Choice Institutional Equities. Please go ahead.

Congratulation for a good set of numbers. I have a couple of questions if you allow me. So first, let's start with this guidance on the consolidated revenue growth for FY '27, '28, with the segment-wise expectation for leasing, Design & Build and furniture. So like for design, orders or inflow for for furniture, any specific guidance this company has or management had -- and from where we are getting this growth, what we are expecting and the segment-wise EBITDA margin as well as possible.

Yes, [ Venil ], in terms of looking at all the 3 verticals, as we've maintained that on the leasing vertical, we are expecting that we'll continue to grow at least by adding about 18,000 to 20,000 seats year-on-year. And this year also, we are expecting to add about 1,000 to 2,000 seats, which is already -- most of it is visible to us as we have already stepped into this new financial year. In terms of design and build vertical is concerned, we are expecting to keep growing very well, and we are expecting that about around 40% growth rate is fairly achievable, considering the kind of orders, businesses, which are already in hand or already under pipeline from various institutional businesses, various sectors across, I mean, whether it is office infrastructure to any heavy infrastructure in terms of building factory premises to health care centers to any other such infrastructure. And on the furniture vertical, yes, as I explained earlier that the vertical is right now kind of positions very actively when the government policies, overall economic situation where import substitutions is a need of the hour where government is also promoting making India endeavors. So we believe that the furniture industry will really kind of succeed and boom in the coming years, and we will be part of that wave. Kind of considering the model that we have created. So we are very hopeful there also that we'll be able to grow over 50% growth rate under the financial vertical as well. So we are very clear that with coming year is also going to be a significant year because it's going to kind of stabilize and reaffirm our business model in terms of its the kind of stability, growth and continue to that it offers overall.

Okay. Okay. And you mentioned this, so guidance of INR 18,000 to INR 20,000. So I think it's revised from earlier guidance of INR 20,000 to 25,000 26, right? So we achieved around or FY '26. So I just want to understand like your view on the shortfall. And thus also, if we have the and number we have number of average rent per square feet for this leasing business by FY '26.

So when is the shortfall, what we mentioned is 18,000 to 20,000 is the build seat that we are talking about and 25,000 seats are the overall capacity that we are talking about. So we continue to achieve that in respect have achieved that also. 1,000 those seated which are revenue-generating seeds, 25,000 seats have those seats which have really added up to our overall capacity. So that ratio will continue to be achieved. And even and in the same ratio, we are talking for the current financial year also, that 18,000 to 20,000 seats would be the billed operating seats and 25,000 seats would be roughly around the target in terms of adding to the capacities. So there is no change in the kind of estimation. So there is no change in the kind of what we expect to achieve or have achieved in the last financial year, number one. So that is a clarification that you -- there are different kind of ways people are explaining what is mature centers and what is an occupancy level. But for us, everything is the matured center because at the end of the day, when the center has come, I have to -- it starts kind of coming with an operating expense, and I need to ensure that I kind of recoup that at the quickest. So what we achieve is by 18,000 to 20,000 seats are those seats, which are generating revenue. seats have added capacities and which will start generating revenue immediately. So that's on the seed position side. And in terms of margins, as you asked, margins are continuing to remain in the similar line. We are very clear that at the center level, we will be able to achieve 30% plus EBITDA and that we continue to achieve even for this financial year and going forward as well. And sir, on the -- this average rent per square feet if we have. Yes, average rent perspect, fortunately and with the market situation is continuously increasing. So if you see last quarter, it was in the range of around INR 7,000 to INR 7,500 this financial year, we have -- on an average, we have already achieved INR 7,000 to INR 7,500. And we are hopeful that this is likely to go upwards only. and we are very kind of the kind of infrastructure facility, the locations and the requirements the customers are considering those customizations, the prices are going to remain on an upward scale only. And overall average revenue per share per seat is likely to increase only going forward.

Got it. Got it. And 1 more question on the -- this CapEx. So can you throw some light on the CapEx expectation for FY '20 any major business development or any business acquisitions or new plant for furniture business we are expecting in FY '27. And also do we have any plan to acquire a new land parcel, if any, can just mention on that?

No. Right now, what we are trying to do is we're trying to kind of capitalize and improve the existing capacities with the kind of capital flow available and with the kind of infrastructure that is available. So in terms of new CapEx per se, immediately, as we speak, we don't have any plans to kind of increase heavily on any CapEx side. Obviously, improvements are needed, but not in a scale where kind of that we do any substantial CapEx. But yes, the growth is likely to be achieved with the existing capacities with more efficiencies to be built in there. In terms of CapEx, as we know that for the leasing, we are fairly asset-light there is hardly about overall seats more than -- not more than 10% of the seats are added through our own capital, which is, if you look at it from a capital deployment point of view, it is just about, let's say, 2,000 seats set at about INR 50,000 seat kind of a CapEx. It's not that substantial that we are looking at from an annual outlay point of view. And from a Design & Build, anyway, it is a contractual business, so there is no CapEx requirement. And on the furniture manufacturing, we do have a fairly established manufacturing facility with a lot of infrastructure available there. Yes, there will be, like I said, there will be improvements in those infrastructure. There will be improvements in some capacity in terms of some new machineries being added with the changes in the technology or the requirement in the specific type of products. But we are not looking at any land acquisition per se and increasing the CapEx from that point of view at this point of time as we speak.

Okay, okay. And our average interest rate by end of FY '26 and any mega date expiry in FY '27, '28, we are expecting and how we can take a take care of those expiry by refinance or something else?

So all our debt are primarily asset-backed debt right now and which is -- is an LRD or a kind of property-backed transactions, which are not even -- it is all around 7.5% to 7.75% kind of range -- interest rate that we are talking about. And there is no -- any immediate repayment situations coming in for this financial year because it is a long-term debt. and they are available on the balance sheet for a longer period tenure. So there is no pressure on the balance sheet in terms of immediate repayment on the loan liability is concerned.

Ladies and gentlemen, we would take that as the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for their closing remarks.

So thank you so much for joining this call. And we are really grateful to all our investors, all research organizations and participants who have really been covering us and adding value to the overall company's growth potentials. And we thank you so much, and we'll be back with the bank for the coming financial year. Thank you so much, and good day.

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of EFC India Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.