Elior Group SA (ELIOR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, and welcome to the acquisition of the Derichebourg Multiservice. Elior accelerates its standalone call. My name is Laura, and I will be your coordinator for today's event. Please note, this call is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] I will now hand you over to your host, Bernard Gault, Chairman and CEO of Elior Group; Esther Gaide, CFO; and Daniel Derichebourg, the Chairman and CEO of Derichebourg to begin today's conference. Thank you.

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for attending our conference call. It's an important day for Elior Group. We are announcing the conclusion of our strategic review. You may remember in July, we started our strategic review, and we said we will be looking at every option for the future of the company. In November, we confirm that we're turning the business around. Now in December, we're announcing the conclusion we're accelerating the recovery by acquiring the Derichebourg Multiservice in an all-stock transaction. By acquiring DMS, we are achieving 3 goals with strengthening Elior's Group's strategic positioning. We're creating attractive value and enhancing its financial profile. We are enabling Elior Group to accelerate growth and take more initiatives. Why are we strengthening Elior Group's strategic positioning through this acquisition? There are new benefits. First, we're combining those 2 co-presenter businesses to create the leader in multiservices and contact catering. We increased the scale, we will have about $5 billion in sales, 134,000 employees and we will be becoming #1 in multiservices in catering in France. We are increasing diversification through this acquisition. We are creating new and complementary services with a more stable business model. We have a complementary client-based and complementary industry serves. We are reinforcing our leadership in health care, enhancing passengers in other end markets. We're also strengthening the density of the local geographic footprint. Third point: Cross-selling, very important thing. With the cross-selling we expect to accelerate the commercial momentum. We'll explain later on how we intend to do this. Now to the transaction highlights. What we're doing is we are acquiring Derichebourg Multiservice. And who are they? They are leading operator in outsourced services. The revenues of the Derichebourg of EUR 943 million in 2022; EBITDA, EUR 49 million; EBITDA, EUR 47 million. They are headquartered in Paris and have 37,000 employees. The transaction valuing DMS at an Enterprise value of EUR 450 million. This is a 9.1x on the backward-looking multiple of fiscal year 2022 and a 5.7x when accounting for the post run-rate synergies. This is an all-stock transaction. Elior shares are being issued at EUR 5.65 per share representing a very large premium over 100% over the benchmark of unaffected stock price. EUR 80 million shares are being issued to the Derichebourg Group, resulting in a pro forma ownership of 48.4% for Elior -- for Derichebourg and a dilution of 32%. This is intended to create a practice value and enhance the financial profile of Elior Group. It results in a double-digit EPS accretion as early as Fiscal Year '24 and even more if we consider run-rate synergies. The synergies are expected to be on a run-rate basis at, about or above, rather EUR 30 million achieved in year 3 and the leverage will be decreased by 2 turns when accounting for this transaction. Obviously, when you do this and you change the ownership of the company in this way, you need to think about corporate governance. And there, the government will be the first consisting in the Board of Directors that will have 12 membranes, 5 independent board members, 5 Derichebourg representatives and 2 employee representatives. The qualified majority will be needed for all important transactions. We expect this -- we will explain this in a second. And Daniel Derichebourg will be nominated Chairman and CEO at the transaction closing. The closing is expected to happen in April, May of '23. The next is we will explain how the advanced financial profile is -- results in this transaction. We have a new group that will have EUR 5.4 billion in sales with run-rate synergies and EBITDA going from 3.4 to 4.2; EBITA from 1 point -- 0 -- negative 0 or 1 to 1.0 and the net debt-to-EBITDA from 8.3 to 6.2. All these numbers are backwards looking. Let me explain now who Derichebourg Multiservice is, and describe what they do. This is an interesting chart. It explains the 360 degrees approach to clients that Derichebourg Multiservices has adopted for the development. It's very client-centric. What it means is that when someone becomes a client of Derichebourg, they might come through cleaning, but the DMS organization has the ability to propose also the different services such as video surveillance, such as maintenance, HR, reception, logistics, electrical and air conditioning, training, of course, public lighting, green areas, et cetera, et cetera. That is a very different approach from the historical Elior services business. In Europe, when you look at the portfolio of products, there is essentially 1 product. It's cleaning. With the DMS, you have a very wide range of products. And you can see this in the way the sales of EUR 943 million are split. 70% is facilities management, but they also have a 12% contribution of industry, so the large Airbus contract. There is HR Interim Sourcing. So the HR & Interim is actually internalized. And the Energy division is a growing part of the business, something that we think is very interesting going forward. So the message here is that we will enhance the financial profile of the Elior Group and the Elior services with significant synergy potential. And you can tell from this chart that the -- that -- this is why we lack Derichebourg, because they are a very agile organization. There's a strong client-centric [indiscernible]. They know to handle cash, and they have the right cost saving of the capacity. This is a summary of the past performance of the DMS. As you can tell, it's a steady -- it's a very steady business. It has had almost no impact of the COVID prices. It has grown at 6% per year covered between '22 -- 2012 and 2022 and the as EBITDA margin in excess of 5%. Now that you understand better what Derichebourg Multiservices is, we can look at what does the combination look like? How does the combination look like? And the first question you might ask yourself is, why are we going into services? Why are we increasing services versus catering? And it is because we've concluded through a strategic experience, that services are highly attractive sector. First of all, we have services that [indiscernible] with our existing catering business. Second, it's a low CapEx than high return on capital employed business. Third, there is a high resilience and predictability. We talked about what happens through prices, but you can do other scenarios and you'll see that it's very resilient. And lastly, through the HR Interim business, we also have different cycles and different growth opportunities. Same thing for the Aeronautics business of Derichebourg which is expected to grow very, very fast given the dynamics of the industry. Before we go into the combination, let me say a few words about Elior Services. because they are not very well known. We have not communicated very precisely about what we do currently in this business. It's a EUR 600 million business. It shows 57% in the Health & Welfare industry. And there is 40% of the Business & the Industry. We operate from 2,400 sites, 42,000 employees, and we have [indiscernible] clients that are very high end clients, I can name PepsiCo, L'Oréal, Safran, BNP Paribas, et cetera. When we combine our business with their business, we grow the business in France to pull EUR 2.4 billion in sales and that makes us the largest player who had the Sodexo and all the other significant players that you can see on this chart. We will be offering, as I said, a full range of integrated services and this is good. In Europe, this is the same. We are present in, as you know, in France, in Italy, in Spain and United Kingdom. Derichebourg, as I said Derichebourg Multiservice is present in France and also in Spain and Portugal. And we will talk about the synergies in the various countries. But you can see that together, geographically and product-wise, we have quite a formidable relation of EUR 5.4 billion in sales. Next to the complementarity of the portfolio of services. This is a critical chart. This explains the essence of the benefits -- strategic benefits of this combination. Why? You can see in these metrics that we have shown the various segments in which we operate. And in contract catering, obviously, Elior is the only one, Derichebourg is not present. But in Services, the overlap is in cleaning and to a lesser extent, in green areas. In other areas, such as energy efficiency and Interim and Aeronautics, Derichebourg is present, we're not present. In the end market, we can see that with strong indication that has a welfare, very strong in SMEs, and we are equally strong in the last corporate. So what that means is that when we put the 2 things together, we will be able to serve more markets, more clients with a wider range of parts, and that's essential. Whenever we talk about combination, we have to ask ourselves whether we have the track record of executing the combination. And there is a strong track record of combining new acquisitions. 15 companies have been successfully integrated and rebranded in North America to create a significant business in North America. We also are combining the catering business and the services business in the healthcare area. And obviously, the Derichebourg team who will be coming, including Daniel Derichebourg has a very, very strong track record in integrating acquisitions too. So we are confident that we can make this combination work. Now what are the -- sort of values are we expecting from the combination. We talked only about the revenues and EBITDA. No need to talk about that. But let me step now to the next slide, where it shows the new balance of the portfolio with 31% in services and 69% in contract catering. I would argue this is a balanced -- very balanced combination. And to the next slide, we're explaining what sort of synergies are we expecting? And how are we able to extract the synergies? We have engaged a strategic consultants during the phase of due diligence. They've gone through a contracted -- by contract analysis and they've concluded that there is at least a synergy potential of $30 million per year in this combination. That's by year-end, 2026. This is a very large number at the scale of the 2 businesses. The synergies will come from cost synergies, 60% and development synergies 40%. What are the cost synergies, cost-sourcing? First of all, we will internalize the margin. In other terms, we will use the interim facilities that Derichebourg will bring to the party to our benefit and save on this element. We're same on real estate, on IT, on purchasing and on structure and operations. The development synergies come from the wider portfolio of product and the cost cutting that we will be putting in place. This is what I explained earlier. We will be offering the new services and the new range to the existing clients of Elior and -- in France, but also in Spain and in Portugal. And there will be, obviously, the ability to offer catering products to the client base that DMS is bringing to the party. So it's not about acquiring new clients. Of course, we will acquire new clients. But the synergies are only based on existing client base of the 2 parties and how much we work those client base to our best interest. Obviously, the company, the synergies will -- the benefits will also flow into the leverage we talked about decreasing the leverage ratios by 2 turns of EBITDA. Lastly, I will show you the structure -- shareholding structure after the transaction. We have -- as I said, Derichebourg, 48.4% of the combined entity and the Free Float will be 51.6%. We'll have a new record shareholder with industrial DNA, bringing us some focus on services, quality and client relations. The 2 main other shareholders of Elior have been consulted, has been integral part of the strategic review process and fully support the transaction. We have unanimous approval of the Board for this transaction. Whenever there is a large shareholder. We have to ask ourselves what is the right governance between this fact shareholders and independent shareholders. We have minority shareholders protection. I've already alluded to this. The selection process for independent directors will be conducted in a completely independent way. The majority will be reinforced in the case of the larger decisions such as large acquisitions, large disposals, financing, et cetera, et cetera. Those will require 8 board members voting in favor, of which 2 independent directors. So you can do the math yourself. It requires a large consensus to do this, which is, in my view, very bad. Lastly, Derichebourg has accepted to cap its voting rights to 30% when it comes to appoint independent directors at the general meeting. The most important thing of this transaction, frankly, also is who is going to run the business. And in this case, we -- the Board has determined that the best candidate, the best person is Daniel Derichebourg to do this. So Daniel, you might say a word about you and what you want to do.

Sorry, I don't speak French. I'll tell you my background. I'm an entrepreneur who started out the age of 16 in France, and I worked my way up. I'm at the head of a company of EUR 5.3 billion in revenue, 43,000 employees present across 13 countries. I'm keen on customer focus and mindful of my employees. That's my DNA. EUR 500 million generated at the Derichebourg with debt under control. Deriche is #3 in worldwide of scrap metal recycling the circular economy, refrigerators, washing machines, et cetera, and we're very well established also in the United States in the state of Texas. So I'm an entrepreneur, who's very much growth and results focused. I want to deploy all my expertise to serve this ambition for Elior.

It's now time to conclude -- time to conclude to tell you before we take questions. First of all, the new terms that were known to you maybe summarize, EUR 450 million 9x EBITDA multiple, less than 6x on a post run-rate synergy. It's an all-stock transaction, and we share issued at EUR 5.65 in excess of 100% premium to the pre-rating stock price. It enhances the financial profile of the group, strengthens the growth profile, improves profitability, enhance cash flow generation, deleverages immediately and bring up to flexibility to save potential growth opportunities. It's EPS-attractive in 2 years, and the EBITDA run rate of synergies is about EUR 30 million in [indiscernible]. The pipeline of this transaction is we will go on roadshows and in April-May we will convene an Extraordinary General Meeting to vote on this transaction. Thank you for your interest, and we'll now answer your questions.

[Operator Instructions] We'll now take our first question from Jaafar Mestari at BNP Paribas.

I have 2 questions, if that's okay. The first one is just a request for maybe a little bit more KPIs and numbers on the performance of the Derichebourg Multiservice as you did the due diligence on the operations. I'm sure you asked about client retention. I'm sure you asked about historical rates of new business. I'm sure you've looked into how the business has been able to pass through inflation in the last year, which have all been very big themes in outsourcing. So yes, very keen to hear a little bit more on multi-services KPIs, please? And then secondly, please accept my apologies, I know very little about the recycling business. But from where I'm standing, I appreciate the market doesn't always price assets the right way. But I'm looking at a company as a group that has a market cap of EUR 1.6 billion has net debt of EUR 600 million, if I'm correct, and has a total EBITDA of EUR 500 million. So the EBITDA that Derichebourg Group is effectively separating and contributing to Elior is approximately 10% of the total group EBITDA. How do we explain that this is valued EUR 450 million, while the entire EUR 500 million is valued, if I do the math correctly, a bit north of EUR 2 billion. And I know in the context of this transaction, Elior shares are also valued at EUR 5.65. So there's maybe some generalist on both sides. But can we please explain the valuation in fundamental terms for the casual observer, please?

Okay. Pierre is the CFO of Derichebourg SA, so he will be able to answer your questions, Jaafar.

So Derichebourg Multiservice has a very good track record in growth over the past 10 years. The CAGR is over 6% growth. The retention of customers is excellent. Of course, we win and we lose some customers each year all the operators, but we have roughly between 19% and 25% of retention as regards to inflation, it's true it's an important topic for all the players in the sector. As of today, we have managed to have some inflation to our online, I would say, with a mix of passing on inflation to customer productivity initiatives on the contract in order to reduce where it's possible our cost and also savings on our other heads. And as of today, it works.

Okay. Now with respect to the EUR 400 million -- EUR 450 million value assigned to the Derichebourg Multiservice in this transaction, Jaafar, you will appreciate that this needs to be valued on a stand-alone basis, no matter what the Derichebourg stock trades and arguably, it's hugely undervalued. I would say that the methodology is, as you know, the DCF, the multiples of a transaction as well as the comparable companies analysis, et cetera, et cetera. And on that basis, the EUR 450 million is completely justified. We actually have the fairness opinion that was provided to us, to the Board by the Derichebourg, that points to the fact that the value is fair to the shareholders. Let me explain why? I mean, we're telling you 9x EBITDA trailing, right? That is supported by a number of M&A transactions that happened in this industry that is completely reflected in the price in the public markets, press control premium, et cetera, et cetera. This year is way above that. So there are EUR 50 million of synergies that are not taken into consideration these numbers, et cetera, we're comfortable that this is the right number.

Can you maybe, just to help us, check that the valuation was done in a vacuum on both sides. So if we decide that we're going to ignore equity market valuations and focus on fundamentals. And...

We're not acquiring -- Jaafar, let's be clear. We're not acquiring Derichebourg, okay? So there is no equity valuation for DMS as far as I'm concerned if there is any, please tell me.

Correct. But there's also EUR 50 million, and the rest of the group doing EUR 450 million. So to an extent, the order of magnitude, I guess have to...

Okay. But that is more reflected to the fact that the Derichebourg stock prices hugely undervalued. There are reasons for this, and we can take this conversation offline. But we're not here to talk about Derichebourg's fate today. We are here to talk about Elior. And what I'll tell you is that this is the price that is entirely defensible I see from both. And I repeat, it's been blessed by all factors. It's been blessed by various opinion that was ordered by the independent board members of the committee. So I think we can have this conversation offline, if you want.

And on the other side, on the Elior side, I completely agree that there's a similar mechanic where in the transaction, you're assuming a value of EUR 5.65 for Elior shares. And what would be the equivalent multiple fundamental valuation of Elior at that equity share price in a [indiscernible]?

It's a difficult thing to assess because it depends on your views about the future. So you can do the analysis based on new loan projections. If you take your own projections, we are way below that 9x EBITDA, at EUR 5.65. If you take my own projections, we are on par, effectively.

Sorry, so you mean on consensus, you're below on [indiscernible].

The consensus is what it is. It's -- first of all, we talk -- we're are trailing multiples with forward-looking multiples, right? So if you take the -- when I say 9x for Derichebourg IT service, this is trailing, you appreciate this, right? So days go there. They would -- we're expecting, obviously, the business to do better during this year. And so the multiple is in the 8, and that's completely consistent with what we think is a sort of long-term valuation of Elior Group. And so there is no discrepancy there.

Okay. So the aim...

And let me tell you just one thing. That is without accounting for any synergies right? So if you take the synergies of EUR 30 million, you apply whatever multiple you want, you apply a discount if you want to apply a discount or whatever, that's another very big piece to the valuation. So as to valuations, this is very attractive.

Okay. So you think you're evaluating the Derichebourg Multiservice business at a multiple that's consistent with how the Elior equity is being valued in this transaction.

Absolutely.

And on top of that the synergies go largely to...

Yes. Synergies go about -- synergies are for us effectively, mostly.

We'll now move on to our next question from Richard Clarke at Bernstein.

Three, if I may. Just I guess the first one is the sort of ability and desire to stick at a 48% stake? How have you managed to do that? Why does Derichebourg now have to bid for the rest of the company? And are there designs, plans maybe to increase that stake going forward, whatever the regulatory assessment of that. Second question, again, sort of, I guess, maybe it'd be nice to have a bit of detail about why Derichebourg got into Multiservice in the first place, why they're happy to split that business off and parcel it up with Elior? And is there going to be an ongoing commercial relationship with Derichebourg whilst there's some synergies between that business and the rest of it? And is there something going on there? Are there going to be some cross contracts or anything that survive this? And then third one, I hope you were easy one. Obviously, the news yesterday about the covenant waiver. Just a bit of background shortly. You knew this was coming today. So why announced that yesterday? Do you need bond approval for this deal? Is there something else going on there with regarding the debt holders that you needed to include them in the negotiations? Why announced that yesterday?

Yes. no. I mean, on the waiver, it's a very simple point. The waiver is a completely separate process from this transaction -- for post-transaction, right? The waiver is not subject in any way to anything related to the transaction. It's totally stand-alone. We -- by the way, we had 100% approval for the waiver. And it just happens that we were discussing the waiver, and we were discussing this transaction at -- but at the same time, and the calendar got close to one to the other. In particular, the Derichebourg announcement accelerated and made this announcement the day after the waiver. It's just complete coincidence. There is no relationship between the waiver and this. If this transaction is not approved, the waiver stands as it is, no problem, and there is no relationship, okay. That's very clear. With respect to the 48% -- 48.4%, that just had math works, right? EUR 450 million, EUR 5.65, you're recognizing EUR 5.65 the price that the Derichebourg Group paid to [indiscernible] initially to BIM initially when they got first in back in May. And when we discussed, we recognized that EUR 5.65 was the -- we prepared to defend to our own shareholders. And the math just gives 48.4%. The transaction is not subject to mandatory takeover offer because as per the rules of French Takeover Code if a transaction is being approved by the shareholders is what it whitewashes the need for a mandatory takeover, okay? And with respect to why is Derichebourg going out of this business, you might want to ask Derichebourg, I mean, as far as I'm concerned, I'm very happy doing this business.

But is there -- maybe just the second part of that then was, is there going to be some ongoing commercial relationship with Derichebourg? There must be some contracts that cross over the different parts of the business?

No, no. Zero, zero. None whatsoever. The only ongoing relationship that will last only for a year are very classical transition services agreement. We'll use their IT, we'll use their HR for 6 months, 12 months, we have an agreement with them. And then after that, no relationship whatsoever. No common clients, nothing.

We'll now take our next question from Leo Carrington at Citi.

Three questions for me, please, as well. Firstly, on the potential competition review, any concerns you have over the cleaning businesses or in green areas where there's overlap? Secondly, Derichebourg Multiservices trailing margins, FY '22 margins, are these generally representative of underlying and future years, is inflation headwinds that are being absorbed? Any quantification of that would be really helpful. And then lastly, Daniel Derichebourg joining as CEO, from your perspective, Bernard, as Chairman, what do you think the merits are of having a nonfood expert running the business? And also versus someone independent from Daniel Derichebourg, who will be the largest shareholder.

Okay. Well, competition review, we will -- this deal is subject to competition review, obviously, like very classically and the other, we don't expect any issues whatsoever, frankly. But my perspective on Daniel as Chairman and CEO, this is an absolute plus for the business. This business needs is energy, it's clear strategic focus is long-term support. It's client centricity, i.e., knowledge of clients, and Daniel has a tremendous track record. I mean he has turned around a number of businesses in the past. He has come from a modest background and he has turned this into very meaningful businesses. He sold businesses to Waste Management, rebought the business, turned it around. If you look at his history, I have not been able to know Daniel for 8 months, I have seen him in action, and I think he is the right man at the right place as Chairman and CEO of this company. In fact, 1 of the benefits -- 1 of the value of the benefit of this transaction is having Daniel as a Chairman and CEO.

And on the margins of Multiservices?

The margins of DMS, maybe Pierre, do you want to tell a few words about are the margins stable? Or will they be affected by inflation, et cetera? I mean, you've seen in the slides the series, the statistical series of the margins, they're pretty stable. But Pierre, I'll let you comment on this.

As Daniel Bernard explained before, there is a number of businesses in the Derichebourg Multiservice. You have some -- of course, the facility management. You have the Aeronautics and the benefits of the different businesses is that the cycles are not exactly the same. For example, the Aeronautics, it had the bad times during the COVID lockdown. In the meanwhile, the cleaning air was positively impacted by additional services. And I would say that a few months after, it became very -- there is less additional works in the cleaning and the aromatic strategies is recovering well. So -- and year after year, either we maintain -- we managed to maintain or factually increase our EBITDA rate. For example, the Aeronautics service, there are very -- some very technical skills, the people that need to have a specific deployment. And the customers are -- how the -- this backlog is very high. They have to deliver a number of aircraft and everybody is meeting people, and we managed to have some I would say, good revenue, good margin on that, and the cleaning is also has good margin, but not as good as the year before because of less additional services.

Okay. So the 2022 versus 2021 margins is more EBITDA margin reduction is more from the cleaning side, is that correct?

Yes.

[Operator Instructions].

Okay. No more questions?

There's one now. One moment, please.

There's one? All right.

We have last question from Pravin Gondhale at Barclays.

First of all, many congratulations on the conclusion of the strategic review. I have 3 questions, if I may. The first question is on synergies. Can you give us details on phasing of EUR 30 million cost synergies to '23 to '26. And then those EUR 200 million revenue synergies, what are the drivers of those? And then the higher 17% margin there? And do you see any potential upside on those synergies? And then the second question is on Derichebourg. Does Derichebourg Group has any plans to increase the stake in earlier or launch a full take or pay in the future? And if yes, are there any regulations about valuation or floor pricing that we should be aware of? And then finally, can Derichebourg give us some insights on the -- of previous M&A deal they have done in the space, what sort of valuations -- what sort of valuation have done that historically?

And for the third question, is the -- is that the Derichebourg M&A that you're alluding to?

Yes, the first question is on the synergies of 30 million synergies.

No, no, synergies, I got it. The valuations...

Valuation around -- so the previous M&A that Derichebourg have done in the multiservices businesses before the Elior deal, what sort of valuation they have done that?

Okay. Okay. Okay. I'll get to that. All right. Well, on synergies, we identified, in fact, in excess of $50 million synergies; 60% in cost; 40% in revenues, the -- you want to know what the revenue synergies are and how we come to that. What we did exactly in the process is we looked at how many of Derichebourg clients in their portfolio, DMS clients, have multi-products in -- contracted. We've assumed that we will get to the similar numbers in percentage terms, and that created and added topline number to which we applied a standard margin to this area, those margins that we and Derichebourg have in the services business. And that enabled us to translate into EBITDA terms, those potential revenue synergies. That's what we did. With respect to upside, we only looked at the services portfolio, respective services portfolio, we didn't look at selling more services to the existing catering business. So that's an upside that was not captured into our analysis. With respect to the valuation of M&A deals, I mean, what I would say is that Derichebourg has done a number of M&A deals. They were small deals, very small deals. So they are not really representative of the sort of deal we talked to you about today. And what is the intention of -- and that's the question for Derichebourg, so maybe Daniel or Pierre, will you answer the question, please? What is your intention with respect to your 48.4% going forward. Would you increase that stake?

There is no intent to go above 48.4% in the coming year.

Okay. Yes. With respect to multiples, I would point you to 1 transaction which sort of need to get comfortable with it. There is a private into at a very good player in the Multiservices business, it drops with GSF, the [indiscernible], and they pay about 9x. The 9x number is actually very common in this industry. And the project that [indiscernible] is acquiring [indiscernible] that deal may not go stronger deal, [indiscernible] evaluation that they were talking about was also about 9x. So it's sort of consistent all over. One deal might not come through. So it might never go into this, but it just gives you a sense of what it is. Obviously, with [indiscernible] and also different things that actually yielded better numbers. Was that the last and final?

That was the last question.

There are no further questions in queue. I will now hand it back to Bernard Gault for any additional or closing remarks. Thank you.

Well, thank you so much for attending this conference call. This is a very important project to us. And we hope we brought some light on certain of the questions you have. We're obviously available for further questions. This will be a relatively long process because of the approvals from now on to April-May 2023 where we'll have many opportunities to come and visit you. We will be on roadshows in January in London, in Paris, in New York and other places. So if you want to see us, please let Kimberly, the favorite Kimberly, know about this and we'll be available. Thank you so much for your interest.

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation. Stay safe. Have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year ahead. You may now disconnect.