eMudhra Limited (EMUDHRA.BO) Q3 FY2026 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to eMudhra Limited Q3 and 9 Months FY '26 earnings conference call hosted by Arihant Capital Markets Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Jyoti Singh from Arihant Capital Markets Limited. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

Thank you. Hello, and good evening to everyone. On behalf of Arihant Capital, I thank you all for joining into the Q3 and 9-month FY '26 earnings conference call of eMudhra Limited. Today from the management side, we have Mr. Venkatraman Srinivasan, Executive Chairman; Mr. Ritesh Raj Pariyani, Chief Financial Officer. So -- without any further delay -- I will hand over the call for opening remarks, Mr. Venkatraman Srinivasan.

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. It's a pleasure to address you and share eMudhra's performance for the third quarter and 9 months ended FY 2026, along with the key business developments across our global digital trust and cybersecurity portfolio. During the quarter, our performance reflected steady execution across products and geographies, supported by a more balanced revenue mix. Total income for Q3 FY '26 was INR 1,911 million, representing a year-on-year growth of 35.6%. EBITDA for the quarter was INR 441 million with a margin of 23.1%, while net profit was INR 290 million, translating into a net margin of 15.2%. Growth during the quarter was driven by increased product-led revenues across markets, which helped to offset softer growth and margin pressure in the U.S. services business. Europe contributed more meaningfully following the Cryptas acquisition, improving overall margin quality. From a regulatory and demand perspective, global cybersecurity and compliance mandates continue to support adoption across our platforms. Frameworks such as NIS2 and DORA are reinforcing demand for certificate lifecycle management and identity and access management solutions, particularly among regulated enterprises in Europe. These regulations are accelerating investments in compliant trust and security infrastructure, creating sustained opportunities for our offerings. In eSignature and paperless workflows, our focus to positioning in the banking and financial services segment is delivering consistent results across India, Middle East, and Asia Pacific. Transaction volumes in India have increased across retail banking and capital market use cases, supported by wider digital onboarding and documentation programs. We are also seeing increased traction through partner-led distribution of these solutions. On the infrastructure front, our U.S. data centers are now live and are enabling local TLS certificate issuance and lifecycle management for North American customers. This improves turnaround time, supports local compliance requirements, and strengthens enterprise adoption in that region. In the Middle East, recent changes in UAE service provider guidelines are increasing the need for in-country trust infrastructure, and we are progressing on setting up a local data center to support government and BFSI opportunities. Integration efforts related to our recent acquisitions are also moving ahead. The Cryptas product portfolio is being aligned with our broader eIDAS-focused trust stack, and we are working on cross-sell opportunities across European and non-European markets. AI Cyber Forge secret management engine has been integrated into our platforms, strengthening our capabilities across certificate lifecycle and identity environments and the entity has been amalgamated with our U.S. subsidiary, eMudhra, Inc. Now let me share some of the key project wins and customer engagement during the quarter. Certificate lifecycle management win across IoT and enterprise authentication use cases in the U.S. renewal and upsell of certificate lifecycle management with strong authentication across large energy, CPG, and financial services customers in DACH region in Europe. First eSignature workflow rollout for a large bank in Oman. And large-scale CLM and identity and access management deployment across defense agencies in India, CLM implementations across central banks and leading banks in the Philippines and Indonesia, continued increase in eSign and eStamping adoption in India across banking and financial services driven digitization programs. Overall, the quarter reflects continued progress across execution, product development and geographical expansion with improving contribution from Europe, growing product-led revenues and sustained investments in identity, security, and compliance platforms. We remain focused on building scale in a disciplined manner while strengthening our global positioning. Looking ahead, our product development road map continues to focus on converged identity, advanced certificate lifecycle management, privacy-led data discovery and post-quantum cryptography. Early deployment of post-quantum and privacy discovery capabilities are underway with regulated enterprises, where the solutions are being tested in live environments for compliance and risk management use cases. With that, I would now like to invite Mr. Ritesh Raj Pariyani, our CFO, to take you through the financial performance in greater detail. Thank you.

Thank you, Chairman. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm pleased to share the highlights of our Q3 and 9-month financial year 2026, financial performance. Our total income for quarter 3 financial year 2026 was INR 1,911 million, making a 35.6% year-over-year growth. Gross profit for the quarter grew 42.6% year-over-year to INR 1,019 million with a margin of 53.4%. EBIT for the quarter was INR 441 million, registering a 38.2% year-over-year growth, with a margin of 23.1%. Profit after tax for the quarter was INR 290 million, reflecting a 29.5% year-over-year growth, with a margin of 15.2%. Now turning to the 9 months financial year 2026 performance. Total income reached INR 5,166 million, representing a 36.5% year-over-year growth. The Enterprise Solutions segment generated a revenue of INR 4,079 million, while the service revenue is INR 1,003 million. EBITDA was INR 1,255 million, registering a 31.8% year-over-year growth, with a margin of 24.3%, while PAT was INR 805 million, growing 28% year-over-year with a margin of 15.6%. That concludes my remarks. Thank you, and we may now open the floor for the question-and-answer session.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Rishi Maheshwari from Aksa Capital.

Congratulations to the management. Good set of numbers. I had two questions. Firstly, to understand that U.S. has -- in your prepared remarks, you had mentioned reduced growth and margins from the U.S. Now in the last quarter call, you had indicated that you were chasing 7 big customers and signed 5, 6 major customers; 2 or 3 of them would have come in this quarter itself.

Yes.

So what had changed during the quarter, along with -- if you can also highlight the quarterly numbers that you have aggregated from Cryptas, as well as AI Cyber Forge?

Yes. U.S. has not declined. U.S. almost remained the same compared to last quarter. It did not decline. So that is one thing. Then the customers what we have signed, they continue, but over a period, they will earn the revenue. Revenue will not come immediately because a lot of use cases are -- some are on-premise use cases, some are usage-based use cases. So that way, there is no reduction, and we are still working with a number of large customers. So 2, 3 customers came. One of the customers we expected last -- this quarter, Q3 quarter might shift to Q4 quarter. So that is where it is. So there is no loss in the U.S. business. It continues the same. But the services -- U.S. services business, there is no growth. It almost remains stagnant because of the AI and because of the H-1B Visa problem, as I indicated in the last quarter. Then coming to the Cryptas' revenue, the last quarter, Cryptas' revenue in Q2, that is ending September -- Cryptas' revenue was around INR 24 crores or something like that. Now it has become INR 34 crores in the Q3 revenue. So that is the revenue contribution from Cryptas. And we had also indicated there was a loss of INR 1.6 crores in Cryptas in Q2 -- instead of it, it is now positive at INR 1 crore or INR 1.25 crores Cryptas PAT, which is included in the overall consolidated accounts.

AI Cyber Forge.

AI Cyber Forge. The AI Cyber Forge, we are not selling separately -- that is integrated. Even earlier, the turnover was very less because of the product we acquired the company. So the company has been integrated and amalgamated with eMudhra, Inc. So that product is also -- that secret engine is also combined with our emCA solution and the CERTInext solution. So there is no separate tracking of the revenue of the AI Cyber Forge.

So if I have to remove Cryptas revenue from this quarter's total revenue, which is about INR 139 crores, I would see that organic growth -- organic revenue posted in this quarter would be about INR 105 crores. So which is not a substantial growth over last year Q3 FY '20 -- sorry, sorry, sorry -- I'm reading the wrong numbers. About INR 188 crores you've posted in this year. If you have to remove...

See, 9 months to 9 months, we will compare both. We will do 9-month to 9-month comparison. With Cryptas, it is almost 36% growth. Without Cryptas, it is a 21% growth. Even if you compare 3 months to 3 months, with Cryptas, it is around 35% growth -- without Cryptas itself, it is 11% to 12%.

I see. So given this scenario, it seems like you should be able to comfortably beat your initial organic guidance or initial guidance of about INR 700 crores. Would you like to revise that number?

No, no, no. We will not revise. We will achieve that INR 700 crores.

Since INR 700 crores is already in the bag, given that you've already done about INR 550 crores, INR 560 crores of revenue within the 9 months.

Not INR 550 crores. Now we are in INR 516 crores. So still INR 190 crores, if we do, then we will reach -- yes. So still INR 180 crores, INR 190 crores is required. So that way, if you see Q3, there were two things. One is -- it was a year-end for Cryptas, so there is a little more revenue in Cryptas in that region -- it is a year-end. Then in the digital signature business in Q3, again, generally, Q2 is higher; but this time -- a little -- Q3 is higher because the filing season shifted to October-end and all those things. So that's where it is better to be taking INR 700 crores instead of revising the guidance.

Sure. And margins hovering around 23%, 24%?

Yes, yes. EBITDA margin and PAT margin around 15.5%, 16% kind of. But in this another thing we have to observe is a lot of other nonrepetitive item of expenditure also we have to observe because of this India is. One is that acquisition -- Cryptas' acquisition legal expenses -- that bill came in the quarter, so almost INR 1 crore. Earlier days, those used to be capitalized along with the acquisition, but nowadays, it has to be written off in the P&L. The other thing is the labor laws change, so for the gratuity, extra provision had to be made. So because of all that, the EBITDA margin came to 23.1%. But if you take out all this, the adjusted EBITDA margin is 23.8%.

Sorry, can you repeat that -- 25.8%, did you say?

No -- yes, adjusted EBITDA.

Adjusted EBITDA, how much?

Adjusted 25.8%. It is there in the presentation also.

The next question is from the line of Jyoti Singh from Arihant Capital Markets Limited.

Just wanted to understand if you can quantify overseas investment costs embedded in Q3 EBITDA? When do you expect breakeven at an EBITDA level?

Somehow it is not very clear. Can you repeat the question? Hello.

Yes.

Can you repeat the question? It was not very clear here.

Yes. So can you quantify overseas investment costs embedded in Q3 EBITDA? And when do you expect breakeven at an EBITDA level? And another -- what was the average deal size in Q3 against Q2, and how has it trended over the last 12 months?

Yes, when you say overseas investment in EBITDA, I don't understand the question, because the investments are all gone already in the capital acquisition; goodwill and all those, no. So in the EBITDA, the investment in overseas acquisition is not coming in the EBITDA. Only thing is the -- from Cryptas, that revenue of around like -- what I said, INR 34 crores, is coming and the profit of about INR 1.4 crores or INR 1.5 crores is coming. So this is what is coming in the EBITDA and the profit and loss account. Investments are already gone in the last quarter.

Great. Any material ForEx impact on revenue or margin during the quarter?

No, ForEx impact -- not much, because we are -- we maintain the foreign currency in the respective countries, and only in the translation it will come. And in the last quarter, maybe from 90 to 91 or 92 it has gone -- 89 or something. So it may not be very material. Nothing is really like it, yes.

What was the average deal size in Q3 against Q2, and how has been the trend over the past few months?

So it depends on different, different products. One is the trust services, it's a retail kind of business where every eSign you are selling for INR 1,500, then eSign -- every eSign INR 5. Then if you take the emSign deals, generally in India, it is around INR 50 lakhs. Then in foreign country, it will be $250,000 to $500,000, but emCA, CERTInext kind of thing will be $600,000, $700,000. So each one -- and the deal sizes remain the same, they're not reducing or increasing much average deal size.

The next question is from the line of Akshat Mehta from Seven Rivers Holding.

My first question was -- in this quarter, we've seen some impact on margins because of slowdown or flat growth in the U.S. market. So when can we kind of see the numbers go back to something like a 25%, 26% margin, right, this impact, when can we see this finishing?

No. Already the EBITDA margin is 23.1% and adjusted EBITDA is 25.8%. So that way, good margin is there. And in the U.S. market, if you see the product business continues the same like last quarter and gives a very good margin. The service business where it is stagnant. It's also last time I explained that it is due to the H-1 visa and various other AI-related issues and all this. The number of people growth in services not as expected. But otherwise, the overall margin is already good, and we expect to continue with this level of margin.

Just one follow-up on that. So when do we see -- in the next 1 year -- that product-led revenues would outperform your services revenue in the U.S. market in the next 12 months or so?

Next 12 months, services revenue may marginally grow, but product revenue can considerably grow, which may give a better margin.

So earlier, your mix was INR 40 crores of services, INR 20 crores of product revenues from U.S., right? Can it become the reverse in the next 1 year or so?

Next 1 year may not be reverse, but at least product revenue from INR 20 crores can go to INR 30 crores, INR 35 crores. Services, we can continue, it is not that reverse means, service will not reduce. We feel service will continue, product will increase.

Also -- so the second question is, do we have any positive or negative impact from the 2 trade deals that have recently happened with Europe and U.S.

What is that? Can you repeat the question?

Do we have any impact from the 2 trade deals that have happened recently with Europe and U.S.

No, no, no. Because ours is not a kind of a, commodity kind of import export, which is regulated at customs, that's a different matter. Ours is all product kind of thing, which is not regulated as of now like that. And another thing is we sell everything from our subsidiaries, which are in the respective countries. So when it is going to customer, it will not be treated as import or export.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Samraat Jadhav from Prosperity Wealth Adviser.

I have three questions. One is that your revenue basically grew 35.6% year-on-year in this quarter, with international contributing around 37%. So how much of this growth is driven by recurring contracts versus onetime implementation?

How much is driven by current contract? Recuring contract.

Recurring contract versus onetime implementation.

Our revenue, 65% is recurring revenue and the others are onetime revenue of license delivery. For example, services are predominantly recurring then the trust services are predominantly recurring. Even out of enterprise and the emSign and eSign and all these are recurring. But wherever we supply to the government and all that, it is predominantly license-based.

So around 65% is recurring?

65% recurring, 35% nonrecurring.

You've announced a data center in U.S. and UAE., what is the CapEx for it?

What is the expected CapEx for?

For the data centers in U.S. and UAE?

U.S. already we have installed. It was around INR 15 crores, but actually, we didn't spend so much. Earlier, if you remember, we had put a data center in Europe. Then we acquired Cryptas. Then Cryptas had a data center because they are having a company called PrimeSign, issuing signature. It is in Austria. So we closed the Netherlands data center and moved all the equipment to U.S., and with that only predominantly spend -- we put up the data center in U.S. Marginally, some spending was there. Then the Middle East, what happened because earlier in Middle East, we were operating from the India data center. Now the UAE has passed the law that you have to operate trust service only from a local data center. So that's why we had to put up a data center in UAE, data center and disaster recovery, which is about INR 15 crores. And mostly it is spent, but again, it has to be audited by the auditor approved by the UAE government, which is some French audit companies. So now the audit has started, so it may take some 2 months, 3 months for the audit to complete. Then we can commission. Until commissioning, the UAE people have allowed us to operate out of the India data center, because we are the only certifying authority there.

My last one is like -- in India, DPDP compliance and property digitization are expected to boost the eSign adoption. Can you quantify the potential...

Your voice is not audible clearly. So can you repeat the question?

Now it's good?

Yes, you repeat.

Yes. So I was saying that in India, the DPDP compliance and property digitization is expected to boost the eSign, eSign adoption basically. So can you quantify the potential uplift in the trust services revenue from these initiatives?

Yes. The eSign, this year, if you see almost the trust service revenue, even in last year, I think whole year was INR 100 crores. This year, 9 months itself, we have come to INR 100 crores. So yearly revenue could be INR 120 crores or INR 122 crores like that. So at least 25%, 22% increase can be there. But another thing is the eSign, because it is going along with the emSign and all that, we are classifying -- except the retail eSign, all the banking eSign and fintech eSign, we are classifying under the enterprise revenue. So there also number wise from almost some -- if you see 1 year back, it was INR 50,000 to INR 1 lakh per day. Now it is almost more than INR 4 lakh per day. So that way it is increasing. But there the only thing is the per eSign is only INR 5. And again, on that -- after paying the other charges, the margin is only 25%. So that's where though the number of eSign increase considerably, it may not very considerably affect the increase the revenue or the profit.

The next question is from the line of Rishi Maheshwari from Aksa Capital.

This is a follow-up for understanding the growth that you have generated from the Europe. Also trying to correlate this with the thought of regulatory push that you may have received from the couple of enforcements, which is NORA and DIS --NIS and sorry, DORA. So these compliances have already been enforced by the end -- before 2025. So whichever companies would have to enforce this and comply with would have already adopted and implemented it. Henceforth, going forward, how do you expect the growth coming from regulation? You've mentioned that in the prepared remarks, that while regulatory has -- regulations have escalated the adoption.

So regulation come, everybody are not able to comply with immediately. A lot of people take some time, some postponement and then newer and newer applications are there, it is not a static application. So in the newer application, they would like to comply and all that. So this is where the more and more inquiries are coming. The other thing is now we have integrated -- otherwise, the Cryptas was selling the third-party products. So in our third-party product, we have integrated our emCA product and CERTInext product into their portfolio so that they can sell. And also, we are trying to sell there some of the products in the other markets. So all these put together will drive the growth, not only one factor, but another thing, any regulation, the adoption takes over a period of time. And whenever newer and newer customer comes, they have to also adopt. So this is where we feel it will be adopted. It is not a onetime matter actually.

How is the environment looking to you in form of growth for FY '27?

2027 still we have for enterprise. We feel very optimistic, particularly in the Middle East market and Africa market, we are very optimistic. European market also optimistic. American market, other than service segment in product segment, we are optimistic. But still, we have not formulated the overall strategy and what will be the growth number for the next year and all that. And again, predominantly, we are looking at more of a product-led growth than the service-led growth. So that way, that could also give better margin and all that. So this is where we are, but we are very optimistic about many countries.

Any changes with respect to the recent budget time lines of filing returns? Does that make any difference to the trust services revenue seasonality that we usually see?

No, I don't -- they have not changed much about the corporate people requiring the tax. Today, where digital signature is required is only for corporates which require the tax audit cases. So those kind of cases, I don't think they have changed any data, yes. With tax audit cases, when date changes happened, which will not anyway require the digital signature.

So we can expect the run rate on the trust services at about INR 34 crores, INR 35 crores continuing to go ahead also. This is more or less in terms of the cash flow that we also received of similar nature the EBITDA that we recover.

Yes. At current run rate it is.

Right, right, right. So any other white spaces that you identified as a result of which post these 2 acquisitions, you would need to go and further undergo any more acquisitions in the near future?

No, immediately, we are not -- currently, we are not evaluating any acquisition. So maybe we feel another 6 months to 9 months, it may not be required. And after that, if necessary, we'll see.

What would be the CapEx for this year that you have planned?

This year, '25, '26, we planned about INR 60 crores, INR 60 crores, INR 62 crores something. So on that almost 75% -- 72% incurred balance will be incurred. And this is excluding the data center because the data center has come arising out of the Middle East, UAE data center, sudden compulsion of change in regulation with them. This INR 60 crores is only by way of all the software and other things.

That seems to be a little higher given the past. What would this be incurred on account of INR 60 crores, INR 65 crores?

There is two, three areas. One is this TQC area. Another is this discovery classification, consent management, data privacy and then remote signing. So all these 4, 5, 6 areas. And generally, even U.S. product companies are all they are incurring 20%. For us, it may be 10% only, 10%, 12%. So that way -- even last year, it was INR 45 crores or something.

What could be the additional expense on in case of data center for Middle East?

That is around INR 15 crores.

So a possibility of about INR 75 crores to INR 80 crores of CapEx that we may foresee in this year?

This year, '25, '26.

Right. '25, '26 -- I'm so sorry. You mean to say FY '26 is what you're suggesting indicating of about...

FY '27, we have not yet budgeted.

The next question is from the line of [ Aashray Vasa ] from Nippon AIF.

So just one question following up on the previous participant's question. Obviously, the budgeting is not yet done, but any color in terms of the order book pipeline geography-wise, how is it looking? I know you all have mentioned Cryptas cross-sell deals, 1 or 2 are going to close over the next couple of quarters. But it seems like U.S. has slowed down? Or was it just that it was a seasonally weak period, that's why...

Slowed done only on the -- as I said, only on the services side. Product side, still a lot of conversation going on. So that's why I feel it will improve. Yes.

Yes. So any other colors for...

Order book pipeline is also really good. So almost more than INR 400 crores order book is there as of now. The pipeline is there. The order book is also quite good. Yes.

Any time line or anything with regards to the stock issue that we had, the partners and distributors that used to work with us.

May go another 1 or 2 quarters, yes.

So post that, there should be some normalization in the -- in those line items, the purchase of stock in trade and product. So that would be a margin lever, right?

Yes, yes. Because every quarter, INR 3 crores is going on that. So that will improve.

Just last thing -- on the time line for FY '27, like what are we waiting for? Is it just a timing thing? Or we are waiting for a closure of some deals? Or just trying to understand where we are in the budgeting process '27.

Budgeting generally, we do in March only because in February -- so we do in March, middle. When we have the general strategy board meeting around March end. After that only we -- yes.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Siddharth Mishra from Creaegis.

Just on the order book number, you mentioned it's more than INR 200 crores. I'm assuming this is for Product segment only.

No, no. I was mentioning about the pipeline, pipeline of more than INR 400 crores. By mistake, this INR 200 crores was...

Understood. So pipeline is more than INR 400 crores. And any update on the product order book, maybe just indicative growth number, if you can highlight?

No, that's why for the year, as I said, we are -- we will do the INR 700 crores. For the next year, we have not yet estimated. But we feel because -- based on the gut feel, we feel every geography, it is quite good improvement is there. So next year, if you see this year, organic growth -- if you see total 35%, 36% growth, 18%, 19% organic growth and balance is accretive growth. So even if we do not do any acquisition next year, the organic growth itself could be 18%, 19%, but we feel the entire organic growth could be only out of the product. So that can lead to a better margin growth.

I was actually just checking on the order book data that we disclosed at year-end. So last year, it was INR 1,907 million, INR 191 crores. Any indication on how is that growing as of 9 months, if you can just highlight, even a rough number is fine, just a range, if you can provide.

That is growing in proportion to our growth numbers.

Pipeline is more than INR 400 crores. Then -- second question, on trust services. Just on the environment -- DSC volume pricing and competitive intensity -- how has that progressed in this quarter particularly, and what is your expectation going forward?

No. From pricing -- now we are priced at the highest price, so that way the price realization is higher. Volume -- as I said, even 1 year, 1.5 years back because of the changes in some taxation thing -- 30%, 40% volume came down. So instead of the volume coming down and the price, we are able to -- though other people are selling at INR 700 to INR 800, we are selling at INR 1,500. Still we are able to sell and achieve these numbers.

I agree with you. I mean...

Volume, again, digital signature volume may not grow much. It may grow marginally, but because of the price, we are able to achieve the numbers.

So a 5% to 10% volume is a likely outcome there, DSC volume or even lower?

No, 5%, 10% is possible because we will get new partners, yes.

Just last one on the cash number at 3Q end. I understand we don't report it in third quarter, but is it possible for us to disclose that number?

More than INR 100 crores, a little over INR 100 crores.

Earlier our expectation was -- just last one on the cash at year-end -- even after paying for Cryptas and AI Cyber Forge -- it will be INR 140 crores, INR 150 crores?

No. INR 120 crores, INR 125 crores -- INR 125 crores to INR 140 crores something. But I feel still will be possible -- it may be possible, but we have to wait and see. Data center is capable, because -- for registration -- again, the data center INR 15 crores, we have to spend.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Sumukh ] from Korman Capital.

So I'm new to this company, and I'm trying to understand the business. When I look at this certificate authority, we have DigiCert and Azure in the space. So how does our product is different compared to this, and why would a customer choose us over them -- so any light on that?

So there are two aspects. One is the India certifying authority and the foreign places. We are a leader in the Indian certifying authority space. In India, DigiCert and Entrust all those people are not there because they are not licensed here, number one. Here, other people like Capricorn, Verasys, Penta are saying these kind of people, some 15 people are there. Foreign certifying authority, DigiCert is the major. So in foreign, 2 things are there. DigiCert issues the certificate, SSL certificate and various certificate and also they are doing a number of products, particularly the CA solution and the certificate lifecycle management solution and all that. So we are trying to compete in this -- not in the certificate so much, but in the CA solution, certificate lifecycle management solution and all that. So our product also all the features we have studied and we have built up a product which is equally capable in some aspects, better capable also. So with that and then with the -- our little cheaper positioning and various things, we are able to win. But more than America, if you see various other countries like Middle East, Africa, Far East and all that, there, we are extremely flexible and competitive. That's why we are able to win the deals.

Is this product -- is it a commoditized product, or is there any significant differentiator between you and your competitors, or is there a scope for differentiation?

DSC issuance and eSign is more commoditized product. But if you see the CERTInext, emCA and all that, it is not commoditized because globally, only 3, 4 providers and mainly -- and also even our identity authentication management, it is not a commoditized product because globally, only 3, 4 providers and then quite a lot goes to the government and banking by on-premise sale also. So -- and in that our, for example, signature solution is extremely specialized on the banking vertical, which is not there with the other product. Similarly, our CA solution extremely because we also operate the certifying authority, all the nuance of certifying authority are built into that solution. So that way, there is no -- not too many competition in this -- in our solution space, 2 competitors, 3 competitors are there, predominantly U.S. competitors. So that way, because of the flexibility and also because we are able to offer it at a cheaper rate compared to the U.S. solution, we are able to penetrate.

What percentage of revenue comes from this non-commoditized part of the work that you do?

Commoditized product out of -- this year, if you take INR 700 crores, maybe INR 130 crores, INR 140 crores may be commoditized product, balance will be non-commoditized.

One last question. So does the enterprise moving more towards cloud and cloud modernization benefit you guys in any way? Or how does it work out for you?

Our solution, identity, authentication, management, CA solution and all -- cloud is there; but predominantly in the Asian region -- the large customers want either private cloud or on-premise, not in the SaaS. Direct sell, multiple billing, and all these are possible.

So if an organization chooses to move their data center to cloud, so does that mean they cannot use your product or how...

No, no, no. We sell in on-premise cloud and as well as private cloud any model.

Because if Azure has their own CA and somebody is moving to Azure cloud, so will they be incentivized to use only Azure CA? Or how does it work?

No. In Microsoft CA, Azure CA and all that, it will have only certain functionality as per that you have to work. In our CA, if they want customization, we may do a lot of customization and then specialization for certain type of certificate like IoT device certificate or some other certificate and all that. So that kind of flexibility we will offer, which they may not offer in the Microsoft CA and Azure CA and all that. That's why they may serve. Otherwise, the easiest to implement is the Microsoft CA.

That is the easiest way for them to do. They don't want any customization.

Yes.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to management for closing comments.

Thank you. So I would like to thank everyone for joining the call today. We remain focused on delivering consistent performance and innovative solutions that enable secure digital transformation for our clients across the globe. For any additional information or queries, kindly get in touch with our Investment Relations Advisors, Churchgate Partners. Thank you once again. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. On behalf of Arihant Capital Markets Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.