Ermenegildo Zegna N.V. (ZGN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us for the Ermenegildo Zegna First Half 2025 Preliminary Revenues Conference Call. Please note that today's material and presentation are available under our zegnaroup.com website. Joining us today is the Ermenegildo Zegna Group leadership team, including the CEO, Gildo Zegna; and CFO, Gianluca Tagliabue. Before we begin, I need to point out that we will make certain forward-looking statements during today's call. Our actual results may be materially different from those expressed or implied by these forward-looking statements. Also, statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties, including those described in our SEC filings. Please refer to the forward-looking statements cautionary statement included at Page 2 of today's presentation. I'll now hand over to Gildo Zegna.

Hello. Good morning, and good afternoon to everyone. Thank you for joining our H1 '25 preliminary revenue call today. There are several important developments I'd like to draw your attention in today. First, let me comment on Temasek decision to invest a 10% stake in our group. It is a privilege to welcome such a renowned investment company in our shareholding as a long-term strategic partner. And I'm also delighted to welcome Nagi Hamiyeh, the Head of Temasek EMEA region, as a member of our Board at its renewal next year. As Zegna Group and Temasek have a joint ambition to develop our existing brand portfolio in an organic and sustainable way by uncover the vast untapped potential of our 3 brands, I look forward to this valuable and enriching partnership. Ever since our listing, I've greatly appreciated the input and feedback from across our investor base. I'm convinced that Temasek insight and engagement will further strengthen our profile as a public company. Let me now move to our results and the key highlights of the past few months. I'm pleased to report that our Q2 '25 revenue in the important direct-to-consumer channel are up 8% on an organic basis. This is an acceleration versus Q1 which confirms that our strategic initiatives and actions are yielding results despite the challenging macro environment. For H1, this translates to organic growth of 6% in the DTC channel and encouraging results we will aim to build on in the second half of the year. In terms of region, the Americas and EMEA continue to perform solidly. The U.S. and the Middle East, in particular, continue to show great momentum. In Europe, our brands continue to resonate with tourists and local clients alike. Looking at APAC, the Greater China region remains challenging. We are developing a plan to make our network more efficient, especially for Zegna while continuing to invest in the brand. In this context, I would like to elaborate on the role of the DTC channel a little further as it is core to our vision and growth strategy. Let me be clear. A China controlled wholesale presence will always play an important role for our brands. But if we want to truly excel in DTC, a client-first culture is essential. Our ambition is to make our clients feel like they are being welcomed into a our home. Therefore, we are evolving our store concept from a place of products to a place of feeling and experiences. People might forget what they saw or bought, but they will never forget how the experience made them feel. While we will be implementing this new approach across our 3 brands, and I stress across our 3 brands and not only Zegna, we are charging ahead with this transformation at the Zegna brand, which is currently our portfolio most advanced in terms of client first, culture and size. One expression of our new retail vision at the Zegna brand is Villa Zegna, an immersive experience, which has been traveling around the world. In June, we had our latest addition of Villa Zegna in Dubai, a vibrant market for the luxury sector and the core market for Zegna. It marked a true milestone, which we celebrated with our first ever run away show outside the city of Milan. Over the course of 5 days, we hosted more than 200 of our most important global talents, what we call Zegna Friends, who will refer to as guest going forward. Their feedback was overwhelmingly positive. Our guests truly appreciated the highly personalized engagement around our exclusive collection Made Su Misura with innovative fabrics from our unique textile platform, our Filiera is the engine behind Zegna's success. The excitement and momentum at our events in Dubai resonated around the world with significant media coverage and social media engagement globally. And there is more. In the past month, we also opened Zegna Salotto, our lounges, our hidden by invitation-only stores where our guests can spend quality time, enjoying a personalized shopping experience and exclusive collection of product they cannot find in the stores. We've opened 2 Salotto so far in Beijing, Shin Kong Place and in Paragon, Singapore, and I look forward to update you on further openings in due course Plaza 66, Shanghai and Dubai more soon. But that is not only in terms of our test to engage with the Zegna community in new and respected ways. We also signed 2 important and exclusive collaboration fully aligned with Zegna DNA legacy and authenticity. First, Zegna has become an official multiyear partner of Art Basel across all its 4, 5 in '26 annual art fairs. It's Basel, it's Miami Beach, it's Hong Kong, it's Paris and also Qatar in 2026. And secondly, we recently brought the Oasi Zegna Global Initiative, Colorado, Aspen as part of our global commitment to conservation, reforestation and ecological education in an area damaged by important [indiscernible]. And here, we went back to the roots of our founder that was really pioneer in all these projects. And with this project in Colorado, we took over the City of Aspen in collaboration with private and public partner last week, and we will continue in the years to come. After having talked about Zegna today, let me now turn to Tom Ford Fashion and Thom Browne. Looking at the first half of the year, it is important for me to congratulate both brands on their amazing presence at the Met Gala in New York in May. Regarding Thom Browne, we have just announced that Sam Lobban will become brand's new CEO effective September 2. And I have known Sam for many years and have long appreciated his innovative approach to merchandising and customer-first mindset developed both at Mr. Porter and at Nordstrom, which have shared shaped this instinct view on luxury retail. His insight and experience will be instrumental in pushing boundaries at Thom Browne and implement the guest-first culture I talked about earlier. He is also an ardent fan of Thom Browne. He deeply understand the DNA and the unicity of the brand and the essence of its creativity. And I'm confident that together with Tom, he will take the brand to new heights. I also want to take this opportunity to thank Rodrigo Bazan for his leadership and contribution to Thom Browne growth since we acquired the brand in 2018 and wish him really the best for the future. In the past months, Tom Ford Fashion opened an outstanding showroom in Paris at the Palais Royal, 800 square meter over 4 floors, where now all the people in the style department work together with Haider. And this has become truly his atelier at his Paris headquarter. And we have also wish to say that we will find a new home for Tom Ford in Paris soon. Now let me conclude with our priorities for the second half of the year. The segment is facing challenging headwinds and is adjusting to the new normal. So these are facts. But even in this new normal, there are significant opportunities, and we are ready to grasp them with a firm focus on innovation, on quality and a timeless proposition. Together with a very strong team, to me, the team is key to the success of any brand, which I believe will become far more important than fashion trends and logos. Our 3 brands are ideally positioned to thrive in this new normal, also thanks to our unique Filiera, our supply chain, integrated supply chain. To support our brands, we will continue to invest strategically, all while keeping a close eye on cost and inventory and staying vigilant in today's complex and fast-paced world. And with this in mind, thank you for your attention, and let me turn now to Gianluca. Please.

Thank you, Gildo. I take it from Page 12 of the presentation where you find our consolidated revenues by segment. In the first 6 months of the year, group revenues reached EUR 928 million, down 3% year-on-year and 2% in organic, which means in constant currency with a solid performance of the DTC channel, 6% organic in the semester in acceleration in Q2 since we landed in the second quarter with DTC at plus 8% organic. Let me underline that during my presentation, I will comment on the organic growth performance, if not otherwise stated, since it's a better representation of the trend of the business, in particular, in Q2 when the euro appreciation versus the dollar versus the renminbi and versus other currencies back to the U.S. dollar has been relevant. In Q2, the group reached revenues of EUR 469 million, down 3% organic with positive performance at Zegna and Tom Ford Fashion segment and the negative performance at Thom Browne. In particular, Zegna segment, which I remind you includes Zegna brand, the textile division and the small third-party brand revenues recorded positive organic growth driven by the Zegna brand, while textile and other product lines reported a negative performance. Let me move -- let's now move to Page 13 for a brief comment of Q2 revenue performance by brand and product line. Zegna brand showed a solid performance in Q2 with a plus 2% organic growth, driven by the DTC channel, in particular, in Americas and EMEA, and I will come back to this more later. Browne in Q2 reported minus 24% organic, reflecting the decision to streamline the wholesale channel in order to enhance a DTC-driven organization. As Gildo commented, the new CEO is expected to focus on the DTC-oriented transformation of the brand. Tom Ford Fashion in Q2 continued to perform with a solid plus 4% growth, driven by the DTC channel. As already mentioned, textile performance was negative, minus 4%. Let's move to Page 14 with the breakdown by geography, starting with EMEA. In Q2, EMEA recorded minus 2% organic performance, exclusively reflecting the negative trend of the wholesale channel. While the DTC performance in the region has been positive with Zegna and also Tom Ford Fashion up double digit. Moving to Americas. The region showed a great plus 10% organic growth in Q2 in sequential acceleration compared to the previous quarter, driven by the DTC channel, in particular at Zegna brand. Some ground DTC growth in the region has also been supported by some store openings like L.A. Melrose Place that you saw at the beginning of the presentation, Palm Beach and New York, Madison Avenue. Greater China region continued to report a negative performance at minus 17% in Q2. This sequential deterioration compared to Q1 is only related to the performance of the wholesale channel, while DTC trend for all the 3 brands was substantially in line with the previous quarter. Indeed, also in terms of cluster for Zegna DTC, the performance of clients from Greater China in Q2 is in line with what we have seen in Q1. Finally, rest of Asia reported a minus 1% organic in Q2. Revenues in the region have been penalized by the performance of the Japanese market due to the demanding base of comparison and by an ongoing challenging consumer environment in Korea. Moving to Page 15. breakdown by channel. I would skip commenting this page since we will analyze the performance by channel specifically for each brand. I just call out that at this point, in the first half, wholesale has been 18% of the revenues of the 3 brands compared to 24% of last year. So the movement towards the DTC center of gravity is very well seen by the decline of the weight of wholesale. Let's move to Page 16 to analyze at this point, Zegna brand by channel. In Q2, Zegna DTC revenues grew by 7%, thanks to a sound double-digit growth in Americas and EMEA. In particular, in Americas DTC, the brand reported a performance in sequential acceleration compared to the previous quarter, which further reflects and confirms the strength of Zegna brand, the appreciation of our collections and the solid bond that our client advisers have been able to create with our guests. EMEA DTC for Zegna brand continued to report a very solid double-digit performance with Middle East outperforming the results of the region, also boosted by the important event we did in Dubai in June. As Gildo commented, Zegna at Dubai had an amazing brand resonance and reached also important business results, which will be also reflected in the numbers of the next month since most of the products sold during the event are Su Misura or Bespoke, which means that they will be delivered and generate results and revenues in the second half. On the other side of the world, GCR DTC remained double-digit negative, broadly in line with Q1. And looking at Japan and Korea, as already commented, the 2 regions, the 2 markets saw a deterioration of performance. In Q2, the brand opened 3 net new retail stores, including Dubai Mall Level shoes for which you will see a picture at the end of the presentation and Porto Cervo in Italy. Moving to wholesale. In Q2, the revenues were down 31% organic, driven by the decision to limit the distribution in the channel of some iconic products, including Triple Stitch, but not only, this decision to limit the distribution is in order to preserve the exclusivity of our icons. Moreover, the performance in the quarter was impacted also by some difference in the timing of deliveries compared to the prior year. As you know, quarterly performance in wholesale is not so meaningful. It is important to look at the semester or season performance to have a better read. So H1 performance of Zegna Wholesale can be considered as a better proxy of how we are expecting to land the year in Zegna Wholesale. Let me move to Thom Browne on Page 17. In Q2, Thom Browne DTC grew by 7% organic, supported by the new space created in the last 12 months, with a specific strong growth in Americas, where indeed the brand opened a few important stores, such as, as I said before, Melrose Place in Los Angeles and New York Madison. At the end of the quarter, the brand at this point counts 120 directly operated stores worldwide, 3 more than the last quarter. And on top of the ones already mentioned, let me underline also that the brand opened a beautiful flagship store in Tokyo Ginza, which is a relevant market for the brand. Moving to wholesale. In Q2, Thom Browne saw a minus 56% performance in the channel due to the ongoing streamline of the brand presence that we expect to last until the end of '25, even if at a slightly lesser degree. As we already had anticipated during the past call, we expect Thom Browne wholesale at minus 35% for the full year performance of '25. I will finish commenting on Page 17 about Tom Ford Fashion. In Q2, DTC for Tom Ford Fashion achieved a great plus 11% growth, driven both by the halo effect of the appointment of the new designer, Haider Ackermann, and by some store openings in the last 12 months. In terms of regions, EMEA definitely outperformed with a very strong double-digit growth in the quarter. In Q2, Tom Ford opened 1 net store in Hong Kong Pacific Place. Looking at the wholesale channel, the performance was down minus 5% in the quarter, mainly due to the impact of some conversions, which will continue to weigh on the wholesale performance also in the second half and could lead the channel to a low double-digit negative performance for the full year. I will stop here. At this point, we can now open the Q&A session led by Paola.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question today comes from Oliver Chen with TD Cowen.

Regarding the Greater China region, the revenue decline there was a slight sequential deterioration due to wholesale. If you could help elaborate on what you're seeing in that region with respect to the key brands as well as traffic, that would be really helpful. And on Thom Browne, the new management announcement is exciting. Just would love your thoughts on key priorities as you continue to broaden the awareness of that brand. And also as you rationalize wholesale in Thom Browne, how many more quarters will that persist? And what should we know there?

Thank you, Oliver. I think the first 2 questions are for Gildo mainly and then maybe the last one for Gianluca. The first on China, what we are seeing there and what -- some comments on the region by the 3 brands and the second one on the new management, the change in management at Thom Browne.

Yes. On China, listen, I was there 2 weeks ago, and I must be frank with you, I think China remains challenging, but I think for everybody overall. And I think that the traffic is not what it should be. And I think that we have to get adjusted to the new normal. And I think we have to do the best with the new normal without thinking that China will be back tomorrow to pre-COVID years. And I think we have a plan. I think we have well organized. I think we should probably consolidate some of the store. I think we should bring more of this Villa Zegna experience there. I think we should push more of the personalized service. That's why incidentally, we -- the first 2 Salotto are in the region, one in Shin Kong Place in Beijing, the other one in Plaza 66 Shanghai because there are certain customers that want privacy. There are certain customers that don't want to buy what everybody else does in the store. So I think it is a different approach. And it just takes time to get used to less traffic and to this new way of doing business. We remain confident in the long term. We are going to keep investing surely not in opening more doors, but in changing how the store look like in order to embrace this new Zegna experience and then making our network more efficient. And I would say the similar will apply to Thom Browne. Thom Browne, we have an extensive network. And I think we have to do a better job in explaining the evolution of Thom Browne and bring also this personalized service to Thom Browne. For Tom Ford in China, we are at the beginning of a new journey. And so it's hard to make predictions. Surely, it's not known for women. And so we have to do a job to introduce Tom Ford more as a fashion brand, less as a beauty brand. And so I think that each brand has different challenges. We know what we are doing, and it just will take time. But don't think that [indiscernible] will come soon in China. It's as simple as that. In terms of Thom Browne, I think the change came after a poll. First of all, it was a bigger decision. But I think that I was able to get the right person at the right place at the right time. As I said, Sam is, first of all, knows America very well. He's an international citizen. He knows the brand inside out because he did introduce the brand into Nordstrom with success. And so I think that he will embrace this customer-centric, personalized iconic Thom Browne experience by fostering the women's side, by fostering the accessory side. And I think that we are just at the beginning of the journey. So I understand that the wholesale side has hit the brand in the last 2 years, but it's part of the transition. It was provoked by us, and we just have to prove that the retail can make more than up for the fall in wholesale. Another important part that we forget is that part of the Zegna journey is related to sell full-price merchandise. We -- after New York -- after the listing in '21, we declared that we are going to eliminate sales total. And that has been a difficult journey, and we want to take the same approach to the 2 brands. And so I think that '26 will be the starting of this journey, and we'll have -- and that's why I must say the sell-through of Zegna has been superior than any of the 2 other brands as simple. So same rule applies, become a better merchant and a better retailer. And I think that by '26, we're going to get there.

In terms of wholesale, Thom Browne wholesale, how many quarters we are expecting, I'll leave to Gianluca.

Well, consistently what I said before, we need to read it by semester, not by quarter. So by semester, I think that we should be coming to the substantial end of the journey by the end of this year, which means the major part of the pruning has occurred in '24 and '25. There might be some fine-tuning. But at this point, we believe that the cleanup and selection of the distribution intermediated by third parties is going to be substantial -- the vast majority done by the end of this year.

Our next question comes from Adrien Duverger with Goldman Sachs.

I would have 3, if possible. So the first one would be on the current environment, consumer environment in the U.S. Could you please describe what you're seeing in terms of the confidence from customers and maybe a few comments on traffic and conversion as well? My second question would be if you can comment on wholesale and the trends you're seeing for the second half. You just commented on Thom Browne and you hope that most of it will be done by the end of the year. Could you please also give us comments for Zegna and Tom Ford? And my final question is on Tom Ford. Can we confirm that the acceleration we've seen from the first quarter to the second one is driven by like-for-like acceleration? Or is there also a bit of help from space?

Okay. Thank you, Adrien. So I think the first question is actually for Gildo, for our CEO, and then I leave.

Can you repeat the question?

The question is on U.S. consumer, what we have seen, what is the environment there? And if you can make some comments on traffic conversions and some other retail KPIs.

Okay. I think America is very resilient. To be honest with you, we were a little bit concerned on the tariff when we heard about the 30%. The fact that now is we settle at 15%, it makes us more serene, and I think we were prepared for that amount. So we slightly increased our price already in June, taking care of more of the tariff and the dollar, but we were pretty well covered. And so I think that we will be making the rest of the year okay. And so far, this small price increase has been taken well by the clients. To be honest with you, the traffic is keeping up all across the board. We just opened a new store in Vegas and is doing extremely well. New York keeps doing well. Rodeo Drive as well. I mean these are the key doors we see. The personalized part of the business is extremely strong. I would say that compared to the rest of the world is one that is keeping up the most. And we have a level of loyalty and the level of conversion that is quite high as compared to the rest of the world. So we maintain a positive attitude in America. We have extremely strong team. I think it surely makes a difference versus others that are not doing that well. So I remain positive, not only in United States, but also to the rest of America. We always talk about Americas as only United States. We forget about Canada, we forget about Latin America. Latin America, Zegna has a presence and there's a brand awareness that is stronger than the one that it has in the rest of Asia, but China. We have an incredible leadership. And so Brazil and Mexico are 2 relatively small countries that are giving us some double-digit growth year after year and well managed. We are total retailer there. Canada, we converted our major customer, who was a wholesaler Harry Rosen into a retailing operation. And so there, we are on a learning curve, but we see a good progress. So I think that's an area that is going to work. for the rest of the year and for '26. So I remain positive on that what we are doing. Sorry, Thom Browne and Tom Ford, yes. Tom Ford, likewise, I think that we have a similar situation as in Zegna with Ford. We are not present in Latin America yet. And -- but I think in America is a similar path as Zegna. I must say that the clients are waiting with anxiety, positive anxiety, the arrival of the new Haider collection, particularly the women's side, which will be delivered early September. So we can't wait to do that. The Paris show, it seems is going to be another impressive outstanding show. And so I think that we are building momentum. So I wish the momentum built in America could translate into other parts of the world. And I think that the role of the CEO is doing that. The success and momentum of retail from America into the rest of the world, but we are going to get there. On Thom Browne, America is it's homeland. And if you speak to Thom, this is now priority #1. So priority #1 is to make America strong. I think the brand awareness is there. We just have to get new customer with the fact that we opened 2 stores in Madison Avenue, the fact that we opened 1 store in L.A. and Palm Beach also will help to do that. The fact that we are in with Nordstrom with the kind of a concession model we had, too. So I think it's just a matter to build up. So the fact that Sam is British, but he's American, too, and is based in New York and has a deep knowledge of the American market retail, I think that probably America is the country in which we see the quickest lift up for the year to come. And that's it.

Okay. Perfect. And on wholesale second half for Zegna, Tom Ford Fashion, the second question. And the third one was on Tom Ford, the second quarter acceleration, how much comp versus space?

So I guide you on the wholesale on a full year basis. Zegna, as I said before, we expect the full year to land in line with the first semester. First half was minus 15%. So we expect something in the mid-teens negative area for Zegna Wholesale. For Tom Ford, which in the first half landed at minus 6% organic, we expect to have also due to some conversions, we expect to be closer to the low double-digit range, minus 10% something on a yearly basis, on a yearly basis. And on Thom Browne, I recall to complete the picture, we expect to have the full year at minus 30%, minus 35%. On Tom Ford, the answer is that the driver -- definitely the major driver in Q1 and also in Q2 has been space and also the driver of acceleration has been space for the several openings we have done in Europe, also in Americas. So the answer is the space is the driver of performance and acceleration trend. On Tom Ford, if I said Thom Browne, it was Tom Ford, sorry.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from Anthony Charchafji with BNP Paribas.

It's Anthony from BNP. I have a few. So the first one would be on wholesale. And sorry, I have to discuss margin because it seems to me that your wholesale business is quite profitable, especially at Thom Browne and Tom Ford versus DTC. So with these negative numbers, I mean, what should we expect in terms of margin for H1, but also for the full year? Maybe if you want to comment on the consensus EBIT adjusted EBIT that is at EUR 175 million. Yes, maybe if you have a quick comment on that. Also, any color on the gross profit margin would be helpful. My second question is on the current trading, but also thinking about the comp base in terms of not just yourself, but the entire luxury sector is facing quite easy comps this summer, but it's not so true for Q4. How do you see the remainder of the year between Q3 and Q4 in your DTC channel that is quite strong and impressive. My third question would be on Zegna. And just -- I mean, yes, if you can give any comment on -- we heard one of your competitors that is performing quite well that is under a bit of scrutiny on the supply chain. Do you see any benefit into Zegna in the past months or so? Or do you think it's not material and it's not a subject here? My last one, sorry for asking for, is on the liquidity of the shares and given your press release from yesterday. So a bit of dilution with the treasury shares at the EPS level. But also, I mean, we see the free float now being a bit less than 18%, so a bit of an impact on liquidity. Do you have any comment on how do you see your Zegna Group being listed in the future, the benefit of being listed, but also if you think about listing also in Europe, any comment on this could be interesting.

Thank you, Anthony. Very, very interesting questions, but quite a few of them. So the first one, I think it's for Gianluca, is on the -- clearly on the wholesale performance and how this can impact on EBIT margin in H1 and full year and also gross profit. I'll leave the second one on current trading maybe for Gildo after and then we take from there. I'll leave to Gianluca to answer first.

So H1, as you pointed out, the revenues level has been impacted, in particular at Thom Browne by a sharp streamlining of the wholesale revenues and also by several openings that in the ramp-up period can be dilutive on the margin. So this is why we expect on the first half something like what happened last year. So there was a seasonality between H1 and H2 in terms of the weight of the first half and second half. I'm talking about EBIT margin -- EBIT -- adjusted EBIT in absolute terms. And I think that we will see a similar seasonality this year or probably even higher in terms of the balance of the 2 years because of the ebbs and flows of the wholesale that you rightly saw called out. In terms of the consensus, I think that today, consensus is EUR 176 million and between [ EUR 130 million, EUR 140 million ] on the top line. considering also the effect, not just of the wholesale that you called out, but also the currencies that in the last 3 months at the end of March, dollar was 108 and renminbi was below 8. So I think all in all, considering also the effect of the currencies, I think that today, the consensus is directionally reasonable, both on the top line as well as on the bottom line.

And on the current trading and the expectations going into the second part of the year, Q3, a little bit higher, easier base of comparison we say and Anthony, I'll leave maybe Gildo to comment -- to provide some comments.

On Q3 and Q4?

On current trading for July and then Q3.

Listen, I don't think that we're going to find a different path in terms of trends in the second half as in the first half. So as I said before, the countries that do well like the Gulf and the Americas, and I would say also Europe will continue their path and Asia will keep being volatile. The news is Japan is not as we used to be because there are less Chinese shopping. China, I think I did already comment. And Korea for us, it's a small market. Even maybe Southeast Asia, we see prospect. I think the fact that Temasek has become a major investor, I think they can surely support us in the development in that part. I don't see different trends as compared to the first half of the year. I would say, in any of the 3 brands.

And the third question was actually -- I don't think we want to comment, but I open up to Gildo. Anthony refers to one of our competitors that had issues on the supply chain, if we have seen any benefit or any from us -- but I don't think we...

I don't think I don't want to comment on that. I will pass on that.

And on the liquidity on shares, the question was on if -- how important is to be listed for us given the fact that free float after Temasek and the dual listing.

A listing, forget about it. I think it's surely not a priority. We have several other priorities in front of us in the rest of the year for next year. I think the liquidity, I don't think that it will be a major issue. There is a little less liquidity. But for the ones that want to trade, they can find. I mean, I can make many examples that demonstrate the contrary that liquidity will not be an issue. So we remain confident that the dilution of the company of the family is not an issue either. And I think that we do believe that being listed is a plus. There is no intention to go private. I just want to make that clear, I made that clear with the press. There is no intention for the family to sell. And I just want to stress that the family has not sold a share. It was a different way around. They came to us in this NAV that sold to them 5% of the treasury shares. So the family remains still, it was just diluted a few points because of the transaction, but that's it. I mean -- and I think that I also want to say that on this Temasek, not only the Board of [indiscernible], but also the Board of the family company was totally supportive because it's a strengthening way to think about the long-term strategy of the company. So I think it goes on a very positive direction for all the stakeholders.

Thank you, Anthony. And I don't know if there are other questions. Otherwise, I know that there is another call in a very few minutes. So...

At this time, we have no further questions. And so I hand the call back to the management team for closing remarks.

Thank you. Thank you to everybody. I know that you have to run. So if you need any follow-up, as always, Alice and myself, but Alice, first of all, is available today, tomorrow, not on holiday. I just remind you that our first half full financial results will be released on September 5. And we thank you, and we wish you a very nice holiday.

A good summer.

A good summer.

Goodbye.

Thank you. Goodbye.

Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. This concludes our call, and you may now disconnect your lines.