FirstWave Cloud Technology Limited (FCT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Audio Gap] Over to you, John.

Thanks, Ruth, and good morning, everyone, and welcome to FirstWave's shareholder update for the third quarter of the 2025 financial year. For those who haven't joined one of these updates before, my name is John Grant, and I'm Non-Executive Chair of FirstWave. I'm joined again today by CEO, Managing Director and major shareholder, Danny Maher; CFO and Company Secretary, Iain Bartram; and a new face to shareholders, Sharon Hunneybell, who commenced this month in the strategic role of VP of Products. You can see the agenda for today on the slide. I'll make a few opening comments before handing over to Iain to deal with the financial performance in the quarter. He'll then hand over to Danny to build on his comments before handing over to Sharon to preview our technology update scheduled for the 7th of May. Danny will then speak to our outlook for the fourth quarter and beyond. And then finally, we'll take your questions. So in my opening comments, well, 3 points. Firstly, cash is clearly now in a critical stage. This is, of course, amplified by sales continuing to move too slowly. We've said previously that we are advancing all options to derisk the business at this critical time, and we'll elaborate further on this at this meeting. Secondly, we welcome Dave Garnier onto the Board as a Non-Executive Director and bid farewell to Daniel Friel. Dave's experience both with FirstWave, having been a director previously and in corporate finance is already proving invaluable as we chart our way through somewhat unpredictable times, particularly in our key U.S. and Latin American markets. And thirdly, I said at the last update, at its core, FirstWave is a software company providing solutions to a global customer base, and that sometimes in the daily thrust and parry of being a small listed company, we forget this. So having Sharon as part today speaks directly to where value ultimately lies for all of us. Let me now hand over to Iain to talk to our Q3 financial performance. Over to you, Iain.

Thanks, John. I will start by looking at the annualized recurring revenue, the ARR. I have provided the divisional split for the 2 business units within FirstWave being CyberCision and Network Management. With this split, you can see each of the underlying business, how each of the underlying businesses are performing. ARR for the group was just over $8 million, which was $120,000 or 1.5% lower than the Q2 result. However, this was after a 6% decrease in CyberCision, which reduced due to the previously announced CSX -- the Telstra CSX2 platform closure. Network Management, on the other hand, increased by 1.4% to $5.12 million as a result of uplift on existing customer renewals as well as the addition of some new customers. Moving on to revenues as well as the information on the divisional split, I'm also showing revenue excluding the Telstra CSX2 platform recharge. As we have previous -- discussed in previous updates, this is a platform cost that FirstWave incurs and then reclaims from Telstra at 0 margin. And hence, this recharge being removed has no gross profit impact. The announcement of the platform closure was in June last year. However, the platform did not finally close until the end of the year, resulting in $240,000 recharge in the revenues in Q2, dropping to only $30,000 in Q3. This actually means that the underlying product revenues grew in the quarter by almost 4%, which is a very different outcome to the headline figure of a 5.7% decline in revenue. The associated customer churn from this platform closure resulted in the CyberCision revenues, even after excluding for the recharge being in decline, whereas the Network Management revenues grew by over 15% from Q2 to Q3. Gross profit increased by 4.9% as the mix of products being sold shifted towards the network monitoring products that have 100% margin and away from CyberCision products that include cost of goods sold. This shift and the removal of the 0 margin recharge increased the gross profit margin by 9 percentage points to 91%. Looking at the cash position. The closing cash position was $550,000. From a working capital perspective, this cash is further supported by trade and other debtors. The most significant of these being close to $1 million in R&D tax offset accrual, which is calculated from the actual R&D expenditure incurred year-to-date. Given the R&D offset funds come from the ATO and the expenditure has already been incurred, there are various organizations who will typically advance you up to 80% of your accrued rebate, which for FirstWave would be $720,000 as at 31st of March. The normalized cash usage figure decreased in the quarter by $53,000 a month to $220,000. The main driver for this was continued careful cost management. The calculation of normalized cost usage does not include an allowance for nonrecurring revenue, which over the past 12 months has averaged $34,000 per month. And it also does not include any new sales. It is an indication of the business' current run rate from recurring revenue and ongoing costs, assuming the business was to make no new sales and not have any customer churn. It should not be taken as a proxy for short-term cash usage. Now let me hand over to Danny for further commentary.

Thanks, Iain. So I'll start with adding a little more to what Iain has just run us through in terms of Q3 highlights. So a couple of those major renewals that we have were with John Deere and Macquarie Cloud, who remain great clients for ours. And further to Iain's comments on our normalized cash burn, we present each quarter this graph on the right, which shows how the changes in our normalized cash usage occur. So we can see that continuing to decline, which is really, really positive and of course, is the underpinning metric to our march towards being cash flow positive. So fantastic to see that coming down further. John mentioned that we did have some changes on the Board. So we welcome Dave Garnier, and we thank Daniel Friel, who has retired from corporate life in all organizations. But he remains an adviser to our organization, particularly on U.S. clients and U.S. investment markets. I wanted to take a moment just to update you on Telstra. Telstra as an organization has been going through a lot of change, and we've been talking for some time now about our changing relationship with Telstra, which is still a strong relationship for us. But I wanted to just take a moment to summarize everything for you. So FirstWave has several arrangements with Telstra. So these include a product service agreement. So under this agreement, FirstWave provides its CyberCision email, web and firewall security products, and Telstra has sold these to its customers as services under Telstra brand. It's hosted on Telstra owned and operated infrastructure. Part of this infrastructure that Iain has referred to includes a recharge for this infrastructure at 0 margin to us. And I'm really, really glad that we're finally cleaning this out because we don't like having this recharge at 0 margin. So another platform that we have is another CyberCision platform hosted on Telstra infrastructure again. This platform is utilized by several federal government agencies through an agreement with Telstra, and we have an agreement with Telstra to maintain that also. This is called a SIG agreement. So it's a separate agreement. There's another CyberCision platform, which runs on AWS infrastructure. And this platform enables the resale of FirstWave products by Telstra, including Telstra Purple under a Telstra brand. In April of 2024, we announced to the ASX that Telstra extended their PSA with us for 15 months, which finishes in June 2025. In June, we announced to the ASX that Telstra was closing the GPA and CSX2 web and email platforms. This includes the removal of this revenue at 0 margin. So with all these changes and the changes that are going on at Telstra, it causes us to negotiate new agreements at the expiry, in particular of the PSA about 30 June 2025. So we're currently in confidential negotiations with Telstra regarding suitable commercial agreements beyond 30 June 2025. So these agreements will change and new agreements, which we're negotiating will align the current products and services and the anticipated lower levels of revenues with the way that both organizations currently operate. And again, we continue to enjoy a strong relationship with Telstra, and we'll update you on what those new agreements are. But I thought it was a good point in time to summarize that relationship. So we have a technology update coming on Wednesday, and I wanted to introduce you all to Sharon Hunneybell. So Sharon was appointed on April 1 as our VP of Products. But actually, it's a bit of a welcome home for Sharon. Sharon has extensive knowledge in this -- in a lot of our technology. She was previously an Opmantek executive and played a key role in the technology strategy, the commercial expansion and actually the acquisition of Opmantek by FirstWave. So she was a core part of the DD team. In fact, she was really leading the DD team. So she did a lot of investigation on the CyberCision products also. So she has over 20 years of experience as a tech leader and a business analyst. She's great at leveraging emerging technologies to deliver impactful enterprise solutions. She's recognized by the Australian Financial Review as one of Australia's top 100 Women of Influence in Technology and Innovation. She's a member of the Queensland Government's Innovation Advisory Council. She's an Industry Fellow at Griffith University, targeting the commercialization of technology and a whole bunch of other things, but there's a few highlights. But for us, she's our VP of Products, and really glad to have her back in the family. And I'm going to hand over to Sharon to talk about a technology update that she has coming on Wednesday.

Thank you so much, Danny, and thank you for giving me this little bit of time to talk about our technology update. So there have been a lot of big advancements in our technology over the last 12 months. And so this webinar is an opportunity for us to be able to bring our customers and broader user community up to speed. And it's also a great opportunity for any of our shareholders that want to learn a little bit more about the product suite to join and learn as well. So during the webinar, we're going to be sharing how through these latest technology advancements, we're positioning the company to be a global leader in intelligent compliance, network management and audit and our vision for what's coming next. We're also going to talk about the future of our AI capabilities, including some of the patented technologies we've already embedded into our products. We're talking -- we're going to talk a little bit about the Model Context Protocol, which allows AI tools to securely access and analyze the vast amounts of data our software collects. So this is a good opportunity to be able to leverage this technology to provide organizations with more insight and control over their environment using their own chosen AI agents or services. You'll also see how we're aligning our products to global security standards and compliance frameworks and how that will translate to practical benefits for our users. And we're going to talk about our approach for commercializing the free tier. So we have over 150,000 organizations around the world that do use a free tier of our products, and we are working to create a clearer path to paid solutions, which will provide them with significant new value. And we'll also provide some demonstrations of the features that are helping customers to meet their key IT compliance requirements every day. So the webinar is next week, same time as this one, so 7th of May. It will be a 45-minute presentation with 15 minutes allocated for technology-specific Q&A at the end. So please feel free to join via the registration link, and I look forward to hopefully seeing some of you there.

Thanks, Sharon. I'm sure a lot of you would like to hear more from Sharon and a lot more about our technology vision and strategy. That's where you'll hear it on Wednesday. So I encourage you to join. Keep in mind, this is a customer-focused, market-focused technology update. So we won't be running through specific commercial questions. It's really about the technology and our vision for technology. So I look forward to seeing that myself. The presentation for that will be uploaded to the ASX, but we won't be making a recording -- we probably won't be making a recording of it available publicly. Okay. So I wanted to finish on an outlook for Q4. So really happy with the way we've got our normalized cash burn down, and the business will continue to benefit from these transformations over the last 18, 24 months, in line with our goal of being cash flow breakeven. We -- I wanted to let you know that subsequent to the end of Q3, we pleasingly reached an agreement with AWS and Corent Technology, who are U.S. organization to deploy CyberCision, Open-AudIT and NMIS cloud into the AWS Marketplace. This will hopefully result in these products being available via the AWS Marketplace and included on AWS invoices. And it's -- the commercial engagement with Corent Technology is funded by AWS, who selected us as a partner to do this with because they're excited about the way they can grow their revenues with us by having these products available through the AWS Marketplace. So this is a brand-new agreement. We haven't even started the workshops to see how it's all going to work, but it's something that I'm really excited about the future with. Again, I wanted to note that we are at a point in our annual cash cycles where we do use some cash. This is going to be less than the business has used at this point in the past, a lot less. But nonetheless, we do want to note that we do require close management at the moment given our current cash balance. And I want to go into a little more detail about the things we have outlined previously, the actions that we take to manage the company right now. So all of the things that we've outlined previously, we have advanced many of them significant, which derisk the cyclical nature of our capital needs. In terms of new capital, we have several discussions on new capital underway with several parties. In terms of new sales, we continue to have a good pipeline with several key deals there that are progressing. There is a heightened level of uncertainty amongst customers in some key markets, especially U.S. and Latin America, which is no different for us than anyone else as it relates to the impacts of the U.S. trade and tariff policies. Asset sales, again, discussions have significantly progressed there with several parties. We continue to work with our important consultant. And in fact, that is Dave Garnier, who has now joined as a Board member and is leading it from that position. And we'll update you as appropriate, but there's several progressed discussions there. Operational efficiencies, this is an ongoing thing for us now and part of our daily working DNA. We will continue to see increased operational efficiencies, which produce better outcomes for us at reduced operational expenditure. So really pleased with how some of these changes are happening. With that, I'll sign off, and we'll look for some questions to be facilitated by John. If you've got any for Sharon also and Sharon, Iain and myself, we all welcome questions.

Thanks, Danny. We will now move to questions. [Operator Instructions] So we've got 3 questions in the chat at the moment. Kim [ Wingrose ] asked what proportion of revenue is from Telstra? Iain, you might give that a crack, please?

Yes. Thanks, John. The Telstra revenues for the group are 25% to 30% of the group, and that represents 80% of the CyberCision revenues.

Kim, let us know whether that does or does not satisfy that question, but that's the answer from Iain. Kim, again, given the dire state of affairs with no sales growth to speak of, it seems an absolute focus on sales is paramount. Why then bring on another strategic executive? No reflection on Sharon, who I have nothing but respect for. But the question is why bring on another strategic executive. Danny?

Yes. I'm glad you asked that because it's good to clarify the role actually. So Sharon has no direct report. So she's VP of Products. Sharon's primary goal and #1 task is the commercialization of the free user base that we have. So Sharon's job is to increase sales. And in fact, she's incented on the growth in ARR. That's her job. So -- and again, the primary focus for Sharon, and you need someone -- so Sharon has skills in -- across technology to marketing to commercialization and things like that, as you know, Kim, but others may not. But her #1 job is to look at our technology and work out how to sell more of it, look at our free user base and work out how to commercialize it and work with me, the marketing department and the Head of Development and our sales team to get more of our stuff sold. So it's absolutely a sales-focused role and her compensation is a sales-focused style of compensation with a decent portion on our growth in our recurring revenues. And I'm glad you asked the question. Thanks, Kim.

Yes. Thanks, Danny. Again, Kim, if that doesn't satisfy you or answer the question, let us know. Anonymous attendee. As a long-term shareholder and supporter, I find it highly disappointing and concerning that the Board is issuing shares as compensation for salary, diluting at these ludicrously suppressed prices despite not delivering any revenue growth and remaining in a state of cash burn. The rest of us don't get free shares and put our hard-earned after-tax dollars in supporting FirstWave on market. It should be a nonnegotiable that all Board members periodically buy a notional amount on market as part of a broader strategy to realign with shareholders and highlight the value to the market. Otherwise, why wouldn't -- why should anyone else? Granted, Danny owns a lot of shares, but the other is not okay. Firstly, it's disappointing it's an anonymous attendee. I mean we stand up here every quarter and try to address things as factually and as honestly and completely as we can. So I get very disappointed with that. However, having said that, and without getting the hairs on my back raised too much, we are trying to keep this company alive and taking cash out of the company when it should be used to take this company forward is, in my view, the wrong thing to do. The dilution percentages are absolutely microscopic. Yes, I understand exactly the argument that you're putting. We could do this differently. We could take cash fees, for example, as directors, and then we could put those cash fees back into on-market purchases. It is just a different way of doing it. We don't get free shares. We contribute our time and our resources and our intellect trying to do the best job possible for shareholders. And we do that fully respectful of the outcomes that we're not being able to get yet. So I get pretty bird up about this. The sentiment that it's all about dilution rather than about cash conservation and about committing resources to this company as much as this company needs as often as it needs, that's what we're about. We're about trying to make sure this company has a chance to stay alive. And it's very bloody difficult at the moment to do that. So I'm a bit emotional about it, but that's the bottom line for me. So sorry about that response being so direct, but you need to understand that on this side of the equation, we are working our asses off to keep this business going, and we're doing the best job that we can. So Danny or Iain, I'm happy for you to have a crack at that question, too.

I do want to jump on because I get the question, and it's an interesting question. So firstly, as John said, no one is getting issued shares. We're actually buying them. But there's a process when you're an employee, which there's tax benefits for buying at a salary sacrifice. And actually paying yourself and then paying the ATO tax and then buying the shares on market is throwing money away and you end up with less shares actually for the same money. But I want to be clear on that because I'm actually trying to buy some more at the moment, and we need permission from the Board. Even though I hold a lot, I do actually want to be paid in stock, not cash because it's better for the company. I also have a big belief that it will be a better return anyway. Sharon, for example, when she joined, Sharon, you don't mind me saying?

[indiscernible].

So it's the same for her. She wanted compensation in stock. And so what we offered her is a salary package. She chose to not take -- at her choice, she said, I would rather have stock. I really believe I'm going to smash this out of the park type of thing. So this is what we're doing. So we are actually buying the stock. I do understand and appreciate that it is much better optics to buy it on market, and it's something that I think about. But no one's been given stock, nobody. People are making a decision to buy stock. And as an employee, there is a tax-effective way to do it. Sharon is buying stock. I'm buying stock. Everyone -- John -- and David just joined the Board actually does have a significant shareholding also. So you're starting to see an executive and Board which is invested in the company and are doing so with a real belief for its future. Sorry if that's long-winded, but I just wanted to explain. So the key -- again, the key to me is that we are buying stock. But as staff members, it is more tax effective to buy it through our share purchase plan than to pay tax and then buy it on market, while I do appreciate it's better optics to buy on market, and that's a puzzle I'm thinking about as well.

Yes, Joel [ Spagnolo ] has got the last question, Danny, which is the same, in the same vein. With the current share price being incredibly low, will the Board look to purchasing shares on market to show the market? And Joel, you and I have had a discussion about this during the month, and I appreciate it and take on board the points that you raised with me. We could do that exactly by taking cash fees and by buying on market. I have bought on market before outside of fees. I've got a reason for me, a reasonably substantial holding in FirstWave. And I'm looking for the share price to go up like everyone else is. So I don't know whether I can add...

I'm looking to buy more stock. And Joel, honestly, it just -- I talked to the Board about it, and it is way more effective. My top tax rate is 50%. It is way more effective for me to buy the stock through our stock purchase plan and pay 50% tax and buy it on market. Like I don't know what to do about that. But I am actually looking to buy stock, and we are buying it. Yes, it's not on market. So I understand that. I understand sometimes the optics of it look like we're being given stock, but we're not, we're actually buying it.

Yes. The point that Joel made to me when we had the conversation was that there are investors around who look at direct sales and purchases. They look at that as a discrete point of indication, if you like, and that the on-market stuff is much more powerful than the way we do it currently. As I said, I've taken that on board. We're locked into the way we're doing it at the moment, but that's something that for the future, we need to consider. I think -- anyway, I don't go on. Kim's come back. Thanks for the clarification, but I'd suggest most shareholders are looking for something to change. It appears that the company keeps doing the same, expecting different outcomes. Can we just deal with that, Danny?

Yes. Well, we -- so we listed a few things we're looking. So we're looking at asset sales. So that will be a big change if we continue down that path. So that will be one big change. And the other big thing that we're doing, and we'll hear about it in the technology update is we call it a mini pivot into compliance management. Now when we -- most of what we go to sell at the moment, organizations have something in place. So they've got to be looking to change. In compliance management, the research is only 64% of companies have technology compliance management solutions in place. Sharon, I don't know if you might know where that stat comes from. I don't know if it was Gartner or Forrester or whoever. But the -- it's a big growing market as executives and Board members get concerned about the compliance of their IT operations. We've got all the technology to be able to do this. Sharon is going to outline it in her technology update. So we've got all the IP, and we've got this massive user base of free users, which are on -- mostly on our AudIT product. And the audit is the first part of compliance. So if we can bring in some of our other IP and develop some other things, that's the focus. We want to monetize that free user base. Lots of reasons why we haven't done it before. And the latest evolutions in AI are really good for us, particularly with the Model Context Protocol, as Sharon mentioned. But we are changing to do that. We're looking at asset divestment, and we're looking at focusing the company on compliance management while not discarding our bread and butter that already provides a significant ARR. But I understand the question and the sentiment. And yes, it is a focus for us to take a bit of a different approach, particularly to our sales, and that's why one of the main reasons we see Sharon coming on board as an example.

Yes. Maybe I can add to that. I think, I've been here for too long, 6 years, and I've seen a huge amount of change in this business over that period of time, really significant things. And I think that gets lost clearly when you don't give what everyone wants, which is growth improvement in the share price and growth in revenues. And Kim, I don't think you should, for 1 minute, think that on -- in the field, working with our customers and our prospective customers, you should not, for 1 minute think we're doing the same thing over and over again. We're trying to do everything that's different that we can to our target and identified market. And we're 100% in line with you about -- or maybe an earlier comment about it's all about sales. But the point of having Sharon on today's call and the point of the tech update next week is that underlying everything we do is excellent technology, and it's going somewhere. And that change in itself about where it's going and the opportunity that, that then presents to talk to existing customers about new things and new customers about new things opens up opportunities. So we're trying to open up every channel that we can, every channel of conversation that we can, every channel to market that we can, trying to make sure we squeeze every last bit out of everything that we do. So I do think -- I don't think it's apparent to shareholders of the change that does occur in the field and inside the business. But let me reassure you that this business has been in continual change since the time I joined it way back in 2019. We have not got the results. That's the bottom line to it. We've not got the results. And so I understand entirely that if we were getting the results, then change wouldn't be an issue because we'd be getting the results. So thank you also, Kim, for the second part of your commentary where you said with regard to shares and no problems with that. I know you're all working hard. Yes. And I'm sorry for my outburst too because it's not about working hard, it's about getting outcomes. I fully realize that I've spent my whole life doing that. But sometimes it's a bit tough in the trenches. Another anonymous attendee, earnings will drive the share price higher in a sustained manner than directors buying. That is absolutely correct. Is there any STIs in place for Sharon? Do you have any information on the number of corporates who intend to participate in the technology update? So 2 questions there. Any STIs in place for Sharon? I think you ran through this before, Danny, but maybe just repeat it.

Yes. She's incented on the -- Sharon is incented on the -- with stock on -- well, actually, Sharon is incented with stock, that's one thing, but that was her choice. She basically bought stock by reducing the cash component of her salary. That was her choice. And then is incented on the growth of our ARR. And we expect most of that to be driven by an increased commercialization of our free user base.

And then yes, to be more specific, Sharon is incentivized around revenue growth, new revenue growth from our installed base. So it is a particularly sharp STI. It's not an STI that applies for revenue growth in broad terms. It's a very specific objective that we've got for Sharon and for Sharon to get outcomes in that. Yes.

And again, it was one that actually came out through the conversations when you're joining, right, Sharon and Sharon...

Yes. That's correct. So I did...

To have as a company basically -- go ahead.

Go ahead, Sharon.

Yes. As I was saying, I was able to fulfill a little bit of contract work before joining as a full-time staff member. And so there is -- there has been a large strategic piece of work that's been done behind the scenes around the commercialization of the free user base. And so I'm hoping that we'll be able to see some changes in that fairly quickly now that I'm on board full time as well. And so yes, I was happy to take my compensation in that way and have a competitive compensation package because I do believe that we can -- that we've got a huge opportunity here to be able to convert these users, so yes.

Number of corporate attendee in the update.

Sorry, John.

The number of corporates.

So do you have the information on the number of corporates who intend to participate in the technology update? We don't yet. We haven't emailed out our user base. I don't think, Sharon, have we?

Not yet.

Not yet, yes. So we've done the ASX announcement, but we need to send out the invite tomorrow to our user base so that they won't be aware of this update yet. It's not on our website. It's only on the ASX at the moment. We wanted to put it up there on the ASX because we knew we had this shareholder update today. So we wanted to get you guys that information because many of you will be very keen to attend that. And then we'll be getting it up on our website and inviting the larger user base tomorrow. Wednesday, U.S. time, is the time you do it, Wednesday afternoon, U.S. time.

Another anonymous attendee. We appreciate that John and Danny, and we know it's more tax effective. This is in relation to share issues instead of cash fees. But that approach doesn't get rid of active sellers and doesn't send a message to the market. We're not after sheep stations and not asking you to drop your compensation, honestly. So a $2,000 to $3,000 purchase here or there would make a massive in capitalized letters difference. Don't underestimate this. And anyway, it's good to see some emotion. There's been a bit of emotion around. Look, we...

I'll take that on board. I want more stock. It is more tax effective for me to do it how I'm doing it. Sharon wants stock. Like there's plenty of people who are close to this business that want stock, and we're actually in a blackout at the moment, so we can't buy any without permission from Board and co-secs. But I'll take that on board. But yes, it's just weird to go and pay tax and then buy it on market, notwithstanding. I do absolutely understand what is being said there. So I'll have a think about that.

Yes, the message is loud and clear. I think the only other thing on this whole issue of equity in the hands of employees and directors of the company, people inside the company who are on these sorts of structures actually believe. I mean I think that should be, in some way, a positive to all of us that people don't need to stay there. The people who are in our business who are highly confident in the things that they do don't need to do this. They can go and get other jobs somewhere else if they choose to, but they believe. So a large number of them are on some sort of equity arrangement. And I appreciate that there's some dilution. But in the scheme of things, as I said before, it's fairly bloody small. So -- and it's a trade-off. So the people -- and Sharon is a classic example. She doesn't have to accept the terms of her remuneration. She wants to do this. She wants to see the outcomes because she believes she'll get a greater lift over time in her share price. So don't lose sight, please, of the commitment of the people inside the business who have partaken in these equity plans. They are true believers and they're still here doing what they've been doing for a long time now. So there's real substance to the fabric of this business. And we're as disappointed as you guys are and maybe more disappointed because we deal with that every day of the week, more disappointed that we haven't been able to get the outcomes that we believe are available to us. Last question from Luke [ Petraglia ]. Thank you, Luke. Great to see cash burn continuing to decline. Keep grinding in the trenches. We're almost out the other side. I believe the time is now, let's go. Thanks for the rev up, Luke.

Thank you, Luke. And a lot of the times and expression I use is that I really feel we're hitting a new starting line. And it's been a bit of a Herculean effort to get to this point. But a few more things to do to be ready for this race at our new starting line, but let's see what we can do from here. I really -- people use this term inflection point and things like that. And I'm not really into those buzzwords, and you'll notice I avoid saying we're pivoting to -- or many pivoting to compliance management and things like that, but we could say that. But I'm really excited to be having a crack at commercializing this free user base. It's absolutely the right time with this MCP technology coming out and the advancements in AI because we just got loads and loads of data in our products. And before all these advancements, we've been having to write little reports and things like that. It's been really difficult because all customers want to look at their data differently. So we are at a new starting point, I believe. It's been a Herculean effort to get our -- if we went back 2 years ago, everyone kept saying you got to reduce cash burn, got to reduce cash burn. And now everyone is saying where is the sales, right? So the whole conversation has changed, and that's really good. But it's been difficult to reduce cash burn and produce sales at the same time. But we've got the cash burn under control. We don't have high enough levels of cash, so we're fixing that. And then hopefully, we're away at converting these free user bases and moving some of our tech into AI-powered cloud services. So thanks. It's a really interesting time for us. So it's an exciting time for us.

Thank you, Danny. As shareholders would now know, Danny is a glass half full optimist and [ it's just very well ] he is.

If the glass is half full, the glass is too big. We need to reduce that expense. We could have 2 glasses.

[indiscernible] weighed down by what you deal with day to day. Look, I'm just going to -- if you don't mind, I'm just going to duck a little bit deeper into something because I don't think our shareholders would understand this. But if you think about what our NMIS, our network monitoring tool does and our Open-AudIT tool does, what those 2 do is they gather pieces of data from every device on our customers' network, every device, and they gather that data and they gather that data consistently continuously over time. So if you think about what that means, that means that for every device operating a network, there is history about what's gone on with that device. That's the data -- and that data is humongous when you add it up across all of the customers that we've got and all of those data points. So when Sharon talks about AI-enabled accessing this data, and Danny says it's been really hard to access this data because we've had to write specific reports, this is a monumental and significant change in technology approach. And that data is very valuable to our customers. So when we say we have an estimated 150,000 free users, we've got their data. So the data repository inside FirstWave is very valuable to existing customers, but clearly valuable more broadly. We have not been able to turn our resources and make our investments to be able to capitalize on this, but it is there sitting, waiting to be capitalized on. So we've got a lot of eggs in this basket, and we're trying to make sure that the ones we're sort of warning the most are the ones that are going to give us the short-term return because let's not just muck around with this. We're in a pretty serious situation. It's pretty critical from a cash point of view. We've got a lot of lines that we're turning really, really quickly that will enable us to reach a different place. And they're all coming to some sort of conclusion, but it's all about timing. So do not misunderstand that we are in a difficult situation, but we can see our way forward. We can see a path forward, and we're executing as hard as we can along that path forward. And now is the time for us to just get our head down, our bums up and keep going. That's what we intend to do. Any other questions or comments from any shareholders, please, welcome. Someone's actually applauded. All righty. I'm not going to -- we won't go on with it. Thank you very much for your attendance and your patience today, and we'll speak to you next. Cheers. Bye now.

Thanks, everyone.

Thank you.