Five Below, Inc. (FIVE) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Okay. Great. Thank you. So this is Mike Montani. I'm a consumer analyst here at Evercore ISI, and we're starting the final day of our summit. Honored to have Ken Bull join us, CFO of Five Below, a position he's held since 2012, and he actually had joined Five Below back in 2005. So there's some excellent perspective, and I think that he can share with us over the course of our discussion, not just about kind of what's happening in the world now, but also drawing on that historical precedent as well, which is great. So Ken, thanks so much for joining us today.

Good morning, Mike. Thanks for having me, and good morning to everyone else that's out there.

So we've got a pretty robust list of questions to get through here, so I'm just going to kind of jump right into it, Ken, if that's okay.

Sure.

Right off the bat, the question that we've been asking all the participants at the summit has been, when you think about the past several months and COVID, what changes in terms of consumer behavior, if any, do you think will actually be more lasting, not just for the next month or 2, but even kind of 2 years or more down the line as we think ahead?

Yes. Yes. The -- obviously, what we've all been through has been unprecedented with COVID-19. And as we discussed, for the most part, we have almost the entire chain back online now and reopened, and we're excited about that. And to your question, Mike, in terms of the consumer, the overall consumer and our customer and expectations and what we're seeing, I think in response to COVID in the near term, I think cleanliness, safety and protocols are very important, and the customers are going to be looking to see that from us. We're actually hearing that from customers as they come into the stores, their response. All the associates in our stores are wearing masks from a protection standpoint. So I think definitely, in the short term, that's going to continue. Buying habits and what they're looking for, essentials that we talked about on our earnings call was very important for the customer. Graphic tees, things like that and product assortment and merchandise and the customer preferences, that is -- those are things that have changed in the near term. I think what's important as you look forward and maybe another key point is the point of a vaccine. At least, in my opinion, I think that's the point where customers may go back to that normalcy in terms of overall shopping when they feel comfortable and there's a vaccine out there. There's various information as to when something like that may be available probably some time into next year. So I think what we're seeing now could potentially last into that period. And then post-vaccine, there's probably changes here. I think a lot of people experimented with online. And obviously, that had a much bigger penetration than it did before. And I think that's something that's going to have some stickiness to it, and customers are going to expect that as you move forward. But I think post the vaccine, I'm expecting it to get back to some normalcy in terms of shopping patterns and people getting out there and traffic in the centers. You could already kind of see it and feel it now. We talked about our comps post reopening. And we're very pleased with what we've seen and the traffic that's been out there. There is a pattern that we've seen from reduced transactions but higher ticket. And I think that's pretty consistent with some other retailers out there where we believe that customers are consolidating their trips. That might be something to your question that continues on, where again, once we get a vaccine, I would expect that to come back to some more normalized levels where traffic and transactions would go up and maybe ticket goes down as they unconsolidate their trips. So I think those are a few of the things that I would call out.

So maybe picking up on that a little bit, Ken. One question would be, why is it -- why do you believe that you all have been able to reopen the stores so quickly? Obviously, there was 900-plus locations closed down as of just a month ago plus. So how have you been able to work through that process? And then how should we think about kind of operating days if you look at last quarter versus this quarter?

Sure. And I'll just speak first about the reopening process. Really, a lot of credit goes to our store teams and our field teams. They did an incredible job. There's a couple of things that we did, which I thought was very unique. I mean we closed the stores down right after the World Health Organization put the pandemic term out there. And one of the things that we did was we knew at some point we were going to open up. We didn't know when. We didn't know if this thing was going to be a couple of weeks, a couple of months, even longer than that. And we actually put product into the store. We sent more product into the store, got it into the back rooms because we know when we opened up, we were going to need that product and -- especially from a replenishment standpoint. If you keep in -- remember that we closed the stores a few weeks before Easter. Easter is a very meaningful season for us. So we basically lost that whole season. So not only did we get inventory into the stores, we kept the store managers on our payroll. We furloughed the hourly associates, but we kept on paying for store managers through that period, also paid for their benefits. And that was very important for us too because we knew, to the extent they could get into the stores to get those stores ready so we could reopen quickly. So they had to get in there, get Easter off the floor and start to get more of the spring/summer product. So that's one of the things that we did that when we reopened. And as you noticed, it really came in a phased approach. It was throughout the country. It was based on the municipality or the locality and the rules. And the store operating team did a phenomenal job because those things -- we had an internal team that was monitoring that and staying on top of that every hour of every day, and literally it was changing by the hour, so we had the store teams ready to say, okay, you know what, you can open first thing tomorrow morning, those stores were ready to go. And then while we were closed, an interesting thing happened, we obviously put signs on the outside of the locations. And customers were coming up to us while the stores were closed, and writing and posting things on the outside. And it's a shame I can't show you the pictures. Post-it notes, "We love Five Below. I can't wait till you guys open back up. We need to get in here. What's going on?" So really excited customers to come back. So then when we opened our doors...

That's cool.

Yes, it really was. And a lot of the, "We love you. We miss you." It was -- and I think that shows the connection that we have with our customer, and we talk about it a lot, where we are in these shopping centers in these communities and even the managers and the associates develop relationships with those customers who come in. So it was great to really see that. So we were excited to reopen at the chance that we could. And if you saw, we were pretty aggressive with that. I think some other retailers may have taken their time. When we had the opportunity to open, we went out there and opened up the stores. And you saw the results from the customers, and they came back in. And as I mentioned before, from a traffic pattern perspective, yes, traffic was down, but they were spending more. And those levels have moderated as we've moved into the second quarter where traffic is still down but not as much, and ticket is still up, but not as much. So I'm sure it's going to seek some level at some point. And then I'll go back to the results that we gave on our call for our overall comp results. So if you look at our stores and the stores that were reopened in the period that they were reopened over that comparable period last year, and you combine that with our -- the comp that we had from our online business, our e-com business, which that grew significantly also during this period, it was about an 8% comp. And when you dig into those numbers, it was split pretty evenly between stores, reopened stores and e-com. And you had asked about the operating days, and I think we disclosed that, too. Our operating days during the first quarter were down about 47% on a comp basis year-over-year. And that's really what drove the overall reduction in sales. We had a minus 50-some comp in the first quarter, and obviously, that drove that. And one thing, the results that we gave through the earnings call, that overall 8% comp for both e-com and reopened stores, if you look at that period of operating days, it didn't change that dramatically. I think we were down about 40% in operating days for that period. So that's going to move because at this point, we basically -- we had almost -- we have over 95% of the chain open. So that's going to -- that percentage of operating days is obviously going to improve dramatically as we get through the second quarter.

Okay. So if it's 40% for that period of time, and that was around half the quarter, maybe it's 20% for the quarter. Is that kind of fair?

That's very fair. Yes.

Okay. Great. So just a couple of maybe high-level questions for you, a little bit longer term, but the store growth potential is something that really drew us to the Five Below story when we were first doing the work. And you look today, 900-plus stores. We've been thinking 3,000 to 4,000 stores potential. I know the official Five Below point has been 2,500-plus. So we're getting a little ahead of ourselves, but to keep you on your toes. So I guess the question I would have is, you guys mentioned on the call kind of high-teens percentage growth in stores moving forward. And while that's certainly not insignificant, we were a bit surprised in the sense that in recent years, you've been doing 20%-plus growth on just the stores. And then when you think about it, it's like we could see tens of thousands of retailers closing from this. So we would think that the availability of your sweet spot kind of box size would be really greater than ever. So kind of just help us to understand a little bit the thought process and what this does to the ultimate prize, if anything, in terms of how many stores you could get over time?

Yes. Yes. And Mike, I think you are thinking about it the right way. When we put out our multiyear vision back in the beginning of 2016, and we took it through 2020, right, we had the 20/20 until 2020. That was 20% top line growth, 20% bottom line growth all the way through this year. Which, by the way, we will update that. More than likely, it's probably going to be in the beginning of 2021, and we'll give, again, kind of our longer-term vision and algorithm as we move forward. But it is going to be a growth company, to your point, and it is going to be significant. Embedded in that vision is really the combination of low single-digit comps and high-teen growth unit growth. When you get those two, that's when you get to the 20% growth. But to your point, you're right, we have grown units, on average, probably 20% a year. At this stage of the game, we wanted to give the investors a perspective a little bit longer term because I know a lot of people don't want to look in the rearview mirror in terms of what just happened in the first quarter. It's more about what's going to happen in the future. So that's why I wanted to come out and say, listen, at this stage of the game, we feel very comfortable about a high-teen unit growth level out there for 2021. The one small bit of caution is that similar to us and kind of the whole economy pausing are the landlords paused also. And I do want to talk about that a little bit more in terms of our relationships with the landlords because I think that's going to be a very positive for us. But that's -- we've had to get those wheels started again. And very positive conversations. And you're exactly right. There's huge opportunities out there for us. The closings this year, I think you quoted 10,000. And I think it's going to be more like 20-plus thousand this year. This will be the largest year that we've ever seen in terms of store closures. And there are going to be opportunities out there for us. Keep in mind, we're a smaller box, right, 8,500 to, say, 9,000 square feet. And we have to fit into, hopefully, if there's a retailer out there that size or the landlord is going to have to break up a larger space, right, and probably make some investments there. So we feel really good about the high teens, that still puts us in that high-growth category. The other piece from -- just -- if you take a step back and look at it from an operating perspective, I mean, look back over, say, the last 5 years of our performance, amazingly consistent, right, in and around that over 90% productivity for our stores in that first year, around a $2 million AUV for that first year, very consistent 4 walls in that mid-20% four-wall EBITDA for the stores. That's one thing we really like, and that consistency and performance is what we like. And although there hasn't been any limitations in terms of the number of stores that we can open, given the success of the stores, there is the intangible piece that we want to make sure we continue to maintain that consistency because we believe it's available to it. So there is that. It's somewhat -- I call it an intangible gating factor. And it's not a number per se as we want to make sure we continue to have the ability to open up stores the right way. And it is about the experience for us with the customer. It's so important, along with that value equation, is that differentiated experience. So that's really important for us to be able to do that. So again, that's what we put out there. I agree with you, there's -- we've got a long way to go from a -- from new store units in the opening runway that we have, and we're going to continue to focus on it. The other piece I'll throw out, Mike, if I could, when you look at just kind of the pure openings, that's one thing in terms of opening up a similar prototype store. We changed our prototype back in 2017, and we've talked about various innovation. And that's one of the things we want to make sure that we have the ability to run that parallel to continuing to open up stores. The whole concept of Ten Below, which has really shifted into what we call now five beyond. And we're going to be putting that in the new stores and in the remodeled stores. The test that we're going to have out there from a gaming perspective. Gaming has really taken off, especially since the -- people have been sheltering at home. And that's a test that we're going to look at later this year and see how that works in terms of our customer and being able to drive traffic. So we're incorporating that aspect, too, that it's not -- we're not cookie cutter. We're going to continue to test and learn and really respond to what the customer is looking for. And I mention that because that goes into the equation, too, in terms of what's the right level of growth as we move forward.

So before, you alluded to this but obviously, there's another half of the top line algorithm here, which is basically the comps or sales, Ken. So a bit of a question would be in the past, you've spoken to and Five Below has generated consistent low single-digit or better same-store sales. And I guess one question would be, is there an opportunity moving forward, that, that could actually be more like mid-single digits, and I don't want to let you off the hook easy, Ken. So maybe just explain what some of the headwinds might be that would prevent that from happening. And then what I really want to get into is to dig into this a bit more in terms of some of the initiatives you've got going on and make sure we hit on that together.

Sure. Sure. And listen, that's a great question, a very fair question. And I'll start by looking in the rearview mirror on this one. And if you go back over the last, I'd say 4 or 5 years, and you look at 3-year comps over the last 4 or 5 years, you'll see numbers between 9% to 12% on a 3-year basis, right? And if you do the math there, that gets you in a 3 to 4, right, in that -- at the higher end of the low single-digit range. And keep in mind, during those periods and the reason why I like to look at it over a longer period of time because you have some of those trends, right, that kind of push the business. And they tend to be -- some of them are different than others, right? You have true fads and crazes like the spinners. That were out there in 2017, which, by the way, we love those types of things. Those are great. It helps introduce us to new customers. It obviously drives our business. And in those periods, that's when you see us outperform kind of that low single-digit comp. And I would expect that to continue in the future. So when I talk about it from a vision and algorithm, how we kind of plan the business, that's why we come out with the low single-digit comps. Do we have the ability to do mid-single digit? Yes. I think we do when we have things like that, right? And I'll go even all the way back to 2008 and 2009, where, again, we were a totally different company, much smaller, but that -- the financial crisis and the recession that happened there, when we went into that in 2008, I think we had a -- like almost close to a 6% comp in 2008. And then when we came out of it in 2009, it was a 12% comp. And when -- and again, I'm not saying we're going to do 12% comps. We're a totally different company at this point, we were a different size, obviously, back then. But it kind of shows you the reaction to a macro event that happens like that, where value became very important, and it -- that event introduced us to new customers. Customers came in and we're just blown away when they're like, "Wow, this is great stuff. I've never been in the store before. Look at this assortment. Look at the value. And just the experience, the fun in the store." That can also continue to happen. And when you have an event that's taken place now like COVID-19, which is really -- I mean, it's really a health issue that then leads into an economic issue. So it is different. Again, that's where you get the safety and the protocols and those types of things that now get added into the mix. But given the stress on the customer right now, financially, value plays a much bigger role. And we're at that intersection which I think is really critical, where we've spent all the time talking about our stores, and that's our focus, right? And it's all about that differentiated experience when you come into the store and it's that feeling when you cross over the threshold of having fun. But combine that with the value, and we're really at the crossroads of that, probably one of the few retailers that's there that can really deliver on both of those. And when you start to talk about comps, yes, I think there's an opportunity as we're reopening, and I'm sure we're going to start to garner new customers who are under some type of financial stress, and that value becomes even more important, and we're conscious of that. And it's one of the reasons why, again, it was very important for us knowing when we closed the stores that we wanted to reopen in a very -- in a position of strength. Because we knew customers were going to be coming in and potentially, new customers who may have a little bit less in their wallet right now, but still want that experience.

So that's great. I think you highlighted the key point, which is as you get some of these new customers to come into the store or interact with you digitally, it's how do you retain those customers and build on that relationship. So what I wanted to do was a little bit of a lightning round with a couple of thoughts here on comps and get your take on it. But maybe we kick it off with the opportunistic closeout buys. Maybe if you could just remind folks what percentage of sales historically could have come from that kind of channel? And how that might impact you, potentially for the better, I guess, moving forward, given the store closure dynamics.

Yes. Yes. So -- and I like to call them opportunity buys as opposed to closeout because it's really -- in my mind, there is a difference. Closeout has the connotation of it's something that's kind of old and it's been out there, and you're getting a deal on it versus opportunistic means it's still trend-driven. There just happens to be a good supply out there that we can get ahold of now. Historically, it meant a little bit more to us when we were smaller and we didn't have scale to be able to go after buys like that. Scale has driven so many benefits to this business over the years. And as you mentioned early on, I've been here for a long time. When I started, we had 27 stores. So we were scratching and clawing to get product into the stores. It is the exact opposite now. Vendors are coming to us, right, and saying, "Hey, listen, we've got some great ideas for you, a great product, whatever it may be." So that scale has driven a big benefit. There, we also talked about the store closures. With all these store closures, there are going to be opportunities out there for product. And it actually goes beyond that, I would classify it more as relationship opportunities. And I've got to give a lot of credit to Michael Ramanko, who's our Chief Merchandising Officer, and his team because along with the scale, he and his team have developed great relationships with companies out there, the Disneys of the world, the Hasbros over the years, where, yes, back in the day, we used to talk to them and if they had some extra stuff, we'd get it. Now that's switched to more of a planned effort, where we're working together to have items and some of those items specific to us in our stores. And it's really powerful when you're at a table and you have representatives from Five Below, say, from the license or like Disney and a manufacturer like Hasbro. It's really powerful stuff will happen. And that's where I think there's going to be big opportunities for us down the road. And even looking back in this recent holiday season, we had put forward what we call the holiday gift wall. And they were items that were priced higher than $5, between $6 to $10, but they had a tremendous, tremendous amount of value associated with them. And again, that was through the efforts of working together with these vendors in the vendor base. And I'll throw out another example. The dislocation of Toys "R" Us. That was back in 2018. And it offered us a great opportunity to get out there. I mean we talked about that, had a great fourth quarter in terms of the games and toys and what we could offer there. I'll also go back to the model because a lot of times we forget about this. When you're in the store a lot and you're doing it every day. You forget, we have those 8 worlds. Those 8 worlds provide a tremendous amount of flexibility. And we jam those into an 8,500 square foot store, which makes us very unique. But that also opens up a huge opportunity that no matter what is going on out there -- and those worlds are pretty broad -- we can react to it. So no matter if it's COVID-19 and all of a sudden, hand sanitizer and masks and gloves, well, we can play in that, right? If it is toys, we can play in toys. We [ won't ] have the Toys R' Us [ that ]. If it's a spinner, we can sell spinner. So that's the beauty of the model is that flexibility, and it gives the buyers the ability to respond to whatever trend might be out there. So I know a little -- this was supposed to be a lightning round, but I just wanted to get that in.

So you're actually getting into the second one, which was this concept of hygiene as being a potential new fidget spinner. So I just wanted to ask, if you could put on your Michael hat, what kind of availability is there for some of these kind of face mask, hand sanitizer-type things and even to an extent, home furnishings, and what's the lead time? If you guys decide that this is what you want to do, does it take 3, 4 months to get that in the store? Or can you do better than that given the relationships and the scale?

Yes. The first thing I'll mention there are the vendor relationships that we have. We've got a pretty large base of vendors, probably over 800 active vendors. Great relationships with them. And if I don't forget, I want to get back to that discussion, too. So that's what starts it off. And for us, it really is a combination of there's domestic vendors and there's overseas vendors. About -- a little bit more than 1/3 of our business is direct import. And a lot of us -- and then I get a question a lot of times, it's like wow, it sounds pretty low for a company like yourself. Well, we want to make sure we maintain the domestic relationships to have that flexibility. So what it does, it gives us the chance to respond very quickly. And literally, we can get product into the stores within 2 weeks of making a decision. By -- what we'll reach out to that domestic vendor, that product will be available, albeit maybe not in the exact assortment we want, maybe not in the exact quantities we want. But if there's enough out there to be able to test the customer and we're data junkies, and we look at this stuff all day long and velocities, sell-throughs and things like that, we get a great read, how is the customer responding to it. So if they respond favorably, then the team gets into that longer-term approach. So whether it's a spinner that probably moves for about $0.25, for the most part, where you get the curve that goes up and it drops or it's a license like Frozen, which had kind of an ongoing development over a long period of time, right, that started in 2014 and continued on, still today -- I mean, we're still selling Frozen product, gives us the opportunity to be able to then switch, make it overseas, get exclusive items, whatever it may be, it gives the buying team a chance to really work with those vendors. And just one other quick thing in terms of relationships. And one of the things coming out of COVID-19, a lot of difficult decisions, right, around furloughing employees. Everybody started with liquidity and cash preservation, and we're in a phenomenal shape, by the way, from a liquidity standpoint. But at the beginning of this, there was a tremendous amount of uncertainty, and we didn't know how long this was going to go and what it was -- the extent of it and the impact of it. And we had to make decisions. We made decisions around our landlords about withholding rent. We also made decisions with our merchandise vendors about extending our terms. And I can tell you that a lot of positives have come out of this. One, from a landlord perspective, we have literally spoken to every landlord. We have 400-plus landlords, had conversations with them. They were extremely productive. We were able to negotiate some great deals there in savings. But the key thing is, is we kept the communication going. We just didn't withhold rent and make them call us. We were very proactive with that. We did the same thing with our merchandise spend, where Michael and his team had tremendous conversations while we were all sheltered at home. To be able to keep that going, where they are now, they are responding to us. And they were tough discussions where we said, you know what, guys, we're going to extend our terms a little bit. You're going to get your order, but we just have to let this play through. And they understood where we were coming from and we understood them. So now when we're reopening, they are there for us. They are there to react, respond to the trends, whatever it may be. So I know, listen, it was an extremely challenging period for everybody. But there were some positive and productive things that happened also while we were all sheltering at home.

Okay. And then if I could, just on multichannel quickly. Obviously, there's the Hollar.com acquisition. It sounds like you all are in a position to launch a mobile commerce effort potentially later this summer. So I just kind of love to get your thoughts about what Holler.com does to kind of enhance your capability set on multichannel? And then also maybe longer term, BOPUS and personalization that could come from all that extra data.

Yes. Yes. That was something that was very important for us. Even before COVID-19, as you saw, we had the acquisition of some of the key assets of Hollar.com last year. So we were out ahead of this, knowing and understanding the importance of our e-com business and being out there for our customer and keeping our customer engaged. And it's something that we've continued to work on during this period. Our goal from an integration standpoint was to have that completed in the middle of this year. We're still pretty close to that at this stage of the game, obviously, some slight delays because of COVID-19. But a couple of really good things that we got out of that acquisition. Their platform, which is a tremendous platform. They've got an app that was already developed, which is very important for us. That's one of the things we wanted to do. We also acquired the assets and the people of the fulfillment center just outside of Cincinnati. So it gave us a really good foothold there in the middle of the country from a delivery standpoint. Actually, a very efficient operation. And we -- if you remember, we moved our operation, our fulfillment operations in-house last year. So all of this in preparation to really put a much stronger foundation in place for e-com as we move forward. And it's interesting when you look back over this period and you talk about learnings, I did with the landlords, vendors and things like that. Same thing with e-com. Those guys did a tremendous job. Our business increased manyfold. Still a small part, very small part. You're talking single-digit percentages, low single-digit percentages of total sales for us, but it does give the customer another avenue there, and it gets a chance to engage the customer. The -- you mentioned BOPUS. And it was one of those things that -- you probably recall we've been talking about that for the last couple of years. It wasn't a huge priority for us because really, the overall priority was continuing to open up the stores, which it still is. But we have accelerated our efforts there. And I would expect to see us in that game in 2021 to be able to have that option for our customers. It was interesting, another learning over the COVID-19 when we were closed is we offered curbside service. And again, the teams did a great job. I really -- I think they pulled that thing off in like 48 hours to be able to set all that up and have that available. And given the strength of our customer, they really appreciated that. Again, a small amount of dollars in the scheme of things, but it just shows you the things that we're capable of to continue with that engagement down the road with the customer. And then the other piece I think you were referring to, which again, we didn't have anything in place for this year, is loyalty. And that's another thing that we're going to continue to look at down the road to make sure -- because, again, we're going to have to be able to stay in touch. We get that [ @ ] with our new e-com platform, that will be meaningful for us to be able to get direct communication with our customers. Because right now, we don't have a loyalty program. So we're doing all of this without having a direct sense of what's going on in the customer's mind. I mentioned before that we're a bunch of data junkies. And we really only get the customers' response through periodic surveys that we do and some other research that we do out there. We're not seeing baskets tied to specific customers. We're seeing the baskets, but there isn't that link. So I think that gives us even more power and more opportunity for us as we continue to grow and get some of that knowledge down the road.

So we are running short on time, but I feel like I just have to get a question in on margin. So if I could, Ken, I just wanted to ask about if there's any kind of structural ceilings that would prohibit you all from getting back to kind of a low teen-plus operating margin. And then if you could just hit on maybe the top 2 or 3 things that might even enable you to get margin expansion longer term?

Right. Well, and again, I'll go back to our kind of vision and algorithm of the 20/20. And again, a pretty significant growth, right, top line and bottom line, that would assume significant growth from an operating margin perspective. We -- when we're doing this through a very high growth, and we have to continue to make those investments, the one thing we've always talked about to be able to do this right, and it's worked for us because if you look in the rearview mirror, the success of our stores as we're continuing to grow at that same time is because of the appropriate investments that we're making, whether it be in people, systems or infrastructure. I'll give you one example, the distribution centers. We need to make sure we have the appropriate capacity to get the product to the store timely and that we operate efficiently. That's one of the things we talked about over the last couple of years. Obviously, something like that has a drag. It reduces as we continue to grow, another benefit of scale on the overall business. But we want to make sure we do the right thing from a foundation perspective to be able to support that consistent and successful growth. So I would -- that piece of it puts a little bit of a, kind of a gate around expansion of operating margin. But on the flip side, we've always said from a leverage standpoint, we've moved since we went public. And it was at a 4% comp when we went public. That's now dropped down to a 3% comp, but we would expect to see some slight leverage out there. And again, in a year where you don't have any kind of anomalies that take place, I would expect to see that as we move forward. Again, I think it's important for us to do it the right way, though, because it -- we're going to make sure we make the right decisions again to lay the foundation to be able to deliver that consistent performance with the stores and be able to have that experience in the stores.

Great. Well, look, there's a couple of questions here. I have to apologize to folks, we couldn't get to everything, but I will do my best to follow up with people kind of offline here later on in the day. First and foremost, just thank you to Christiane and to Ken for your time. I think, obviously, it's a lot of turbulence and rapid environmental shifts going on, but we really appreciate you guys making this time. And we'll look forward to kind of following up this discussion as we do a breakout discussion after this, and just continued good luck with everything that's going on, Ken.

No, great stuff, Mike, and thank you for the opportunity to speak. And yes, any follow-ups we'll be more than happy to answer. Thanks, again.

Thanks so much.