Fletcher Building Limited (FBU) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Fletcher Building FY '22 Full Year Results Briefing. [Operator Instructions]. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Ross Taylor, Chief Executive Officer. Please go ahead.

Thank you. [Foreign Language]. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the presentation of our full year results for the 12 months ended 30 June 2022. Given nothing material has changed since our Investor Day just 2 months ago, will be covered in some detail our medium-term strategies and FY 2022 operating update and the outlook for FY '23. We'll do a shorter and more focused presentation than usual today. The agenda for today is shown on Slide 3 of our results presentation pack. Presenting with me today is our group CFO, Bevan McKenzie. I'll provide an overview of the results. Bevan will provide a bit more detail on the financial performance, and then I'll sum up with the FY '23 outlook. With this reduced agenda, there'll be plenty of time at the end for Q&A. Turning to Slide 4 and a summary of the full year results. Despite the significant COVID disruptions and lockdowns in the first quarter, we improved across all our financial and most of our nonfinancial metrics through FY '22. EBIT was up 13% for the year, our second half margin lifted to 9.5% and net earnings improved significantly, up 42%. Our trading cash flows remain solid and our balance sheet remains strong. Against this backdrop, the Board has declared a fully imputed final dividend of $0.22 per share. Looking ahead into FY '23, we continue to see solid committed workloads across all our sectors and expect market levels to remain at or about FY '22 levels. This positions us well to deliver further profit growth in FY '23. Turning now to Slide 5. Overall, our teams have delivered an excellent result for the year. Revenue was up 5% and EBIT at $756 million was just ahead of guidance and up 13% on last year. Our second half margin of 9.5% across the group was pleasing and sets us up well as we enter into FY '23. All this -- this all translated to ongoing strong returns on our funds employed of 19.3%, again, ahead of our 15% base target. Moving to Slide 6 and on to cash and leverage. As we flagged at last year's results, through FY '22, we needed to restock stock inventory across most businesses and replenish housing stock in our New Zealand residential business. Despite these investments, we still achieved a good trading cash flow through the year of $462 million. Net debt levels at the end of the year were $670 million, resulting in a leverage ratio of 0.6x, and $1.1 billion of available liquidity. All this maintains our strong balance sheet position as we enter into FY '23. On Slide 7, we see the strong performance flowing into our other financial results. Net earnings for the year were up strongly to $432 million and earnings per share before significant items, which is the basis upon which we pay our dividend increased to $0.60 per share. Against this backdrop, the Board declared a fully imputed final dividend of $0.22 per share to be paid in October. Continuing with capital returns, we completed our share buyback program in May. And in total, we purchased and canceled around 41 million shares for $274 million. As I mentioned in my introduction, we continue to make good progress on our key nonfinancial metrics as well. The graph on the top half of Slide 8 shows the continued improvements we're achieving in safety. TRIFR, our total recordable injury frequency rate set at 3.4 at the end of the year, 32% down on last year. And this translated to 90% of our sites being injury free through the year. We continue to focus significant ongoing efforts into further improving our safety performance. And this year, we'll see us implement a major frontline training program. We're confident this program will keep us moving towards our ultimate goal of no injuries across any of our businesses at all. After the challenges of resetting our cost base through the early stages of the COVID years, it was pleasing to see our overall employee engagement, again, improving. We're putting a lot of effort into ensuring this continues. Beyond these day-to-day activities, we're also working on our overall employee value proposition. Some recent examples on how we're improving this include: introducing a materially enhanced parental leave policy, working to specific targets on increasing the percentage of females and operation roles, and continue to work towards pay parity, which should see the last of our gaps close over the next couple of years. Moving to sustainability in the top half of Slide 9. We continue to make good progress towards our goal of a 30% reduction in our carbon emissions by 2030. Our emissions are now sustainably 12% below our 2018 levels, and each business has a plan to ensure we'll meet or better our 2030 target as an overall group. On the bottom half of the slide, you can see that the COVID and geopolitical disruptions that occurred to demand and supply chain over the last couple of years have had some impact on our Net Promoter Score with our customers. This softened slightly to 36% through the year. We recognize that this has been a tough period for our customers. But looking forward, we're now seeing most building product suppliers, including plasterboard, are moving back into balance. Capacity has been added, international and local supply chains are starting to sort themselves out and panic buying and stockpiling is abating. Beyond this, we're very focused on improving our own performance and value proposition to our customers. And this is through things like our new digital interfaces and e-commerce channels, decreasing delivery times while adding certainty and traceability and increasing the pace of our product range and innovation improvements. The combination of our own focus and the generally improving backdrop gives us confidence we'll see improvements in our customer satisfaction scores through FY '23. On Slide 10, we have a summary of our divisional performance. The more detailed divisional slides we usually present are available in the appendix to this presentation as well as in our annual report published today. Overall, the divisions performed very well during the year. Across our New Zealand Building Products, Distribution and Concrete businesses, we saw ongoing good activity levels and volumes. And while input cost pressures have been a feature through the year, we've generally been able to flow this through to price. This, combined with ongoing operational improvements, saw all these businesses lift both margins and overall profits through the year. In Australia, the division delivered a material profit improvement and the second half margin of 4.8% sets us up well as we enter into FY '23. In our residential development business, we had an excellent year. And although [ house ] sale volumes were lower than last year due to disruptions and industry capacity constraints, margins were very strong. And finally, our Construction division made good progress with a second half margin of 3.9% and a strong and much better dimensioned order book as it enters FY '23. I'll now hand over to Bevan, who will take you through the detail of our financial results for the year.

Thanks, Ross. [Foreign Language] Good morning, everyone. Turning first to the income statement on Page 12. As Ross has noted, the group delivered a strong full year performance despite the significant impact of the COVID lockdowns in the first quarter. The second half performance where the group delivered EBIT margins of 9.5% and year-on-year earnings growth of 46% points to the operational improvements in a number of key areas. In particular, it's been driven by more effective pricing to offset inflation and to slightly expand our gross margins, growth into higher-margin product categories, a more efficient cost base and the operating leverage which that cost efficiency is enabling. I'd note that as we look at our second half revenue growth of 11% year-on-year, around 1/3 of this is due to volume growth and around 2/3 is due to price to offset inflation. This is consistent with the market that remains at capacity in many areas with volumes broadly flat year-on-year as we head into FY '23, consistent with our prior guidance. A couple of final points here. The significant items in FY '22 relate principally to the Rocla divestment, which we completed earlier in the year, and our results are inclusive of around a $15 million impact this year from changes to the cloud computing accounting standard. Turning to cash flows on Slide 13. The group's underlying trading cash flows were strong, and the result is coming ahead of the guidance we provided at Investor Day. As we've highlighted previously, the group has made targeted investments in inventories in FY '22 to support both the growth of the business and also to support customer service levels through a period of significant supply chain disruption. We've continued to see the benefits of these investments, both in our earnings growth and also our customer satisfaction metrics, which as Ross has highlighted, have softened slightly but have generally held up well despite these disruptions. Page 14 provides more detail on the working capital movements. The key investment in the year was $239 million in inventories for the Materials and Distribution divisions. About half of this investment was due to higher stock volumes, again, to support growth in customer service levels and about half was due to higher stock values, particularly in areas impacted by higher commodity price inflation, such as steel and resin. We do expect to maintain inventories in the Materials and Distribution divisions at about the current level through FY '23. This is slightly higher than our long-term target level. However, we consider it prudent to maintain a higher level of resilient stocks as supply chains are yet to fully normalize. Turning to Slide 15. The focus of our capital expenditure program remains consistent. On maintenance CapEx, we're seeing the benefit of our investments in prior years in a well-controlled spend that is now broadly in line with underlying depreciation. Our base CapEx also includes $50 million to $100 million per year to deliver on our objectives in the area of digital, data, more efficient manufacturing and sustainability. As we highlighted at our Investor Day, we also have a number of what we call our above-base growth projects underway. These are primarily organic investments, targeting returns of at least 15% and are focused on entries into new product categories and network adjacencies. We're well underway with 6 key growth projects currently, and this will be a feature of our FY '23 investment. On Slide 16, closing net debt for FY '22 was $670 million, with the increase in the period due to the expected investments in inventories, the Winstone Wallboards' plant and the share buyback. This has meant a leverage ratio for the group of 0.6x at the end of FY '22, as shown on Slide 17. We do expect leverage to move back to the lower end of our target range as we make our above-base growth investments. Through FY '23, this will mean the group's leverage will move to around the 1x level. Over the medium term, as we've highlighted, the group will continue to target leverage at the lower end of the target range. Slide 18 shows that the group's funding profile remains very strong. We have around $1.8 billion of total credit facilities, a long-dated maturity profile and liquidity at June 2022 of $1.1 billion. Looking ahead to FY '23, we expect our funding cost to be around $90 million as borrowings lift on our growth investments. On Slide 19, as Ross has highlighted, our return on capital and our returns on share to shareholders remain strong. Our ROFE lifted to 19.3% in the period, well above our base target and with the group returning to cash tax payments in New Zealand, the group has delivered a fully imputed full year dividend of $0.40 per share, a material uplift on the unimputed dividend of $0.30 per share paid last year. In summary, the group's results in the period demonstrate our ongoing performance momentum. We're seeing the benefit of initiatives put in place over the past 4 years. In particular, improved price disciplines mean we're more than offsetting input cost inflation. We have a much improved cost base, which is giving us strong operating leverage to volumes and which resulted in underlying earnings margins of 9.5% in the second half, which is more than 200 basis points ahead of the prior period. On cash, good working capital disciplines mean we can make targeted investments in stocks to support customer service and earnings growth, making the most of our local positions in a disrupted supply environment. We're pleased that this performance has enabled another material uplift in our returns to shareholders as well as ongoing strength in our balance sheet metrics. Finally, and consistent with our long-term strategy, we're now firmly in the phase of investing in the future growth of the business, primarily through organic investment in new product and network adjacencies. And with that, I'll hand back to Ross for some closing remarks.

Thanks, Bevan. And turning to Slide 22 and the outlook for FY '23. Customers and forward indicators point to ongoing strong volumes across all our sectors. With this, we expect similar market activity levels across the FY '23 year to what we saw in the second half of last year. We are confident in our operational disciplines and continuing to cover inflationary costs. And with that, we are forecasting to see an EBIT profit uplift in FY '23 of at least $100 million from FY '22. Moving finally to Slide 23, I'd like to recap on how we see our medium-term positioning. When we look at our strategy, we remain confident we're well positioned to drive shareholder value both in the short and longer term. As mentioned, we expect to see solid profit growth into FY '23. We continue to have both plans and runway to drive further margin improvements above what we're achieving now. We have an established pipeline of growth opportunities, which we outlined in detail at our recent Investor Day that will start to mature over the next 3 years. Our balance sheet and financial position is strong, and we intend to keep it that way. And our operating approach and scale in-country presence positions us well to both take advantage of and deal with the global trends affecting our sectors. Before we move on to questions, I'd like to thank our people for their commitment and resilience through what has been a very demand in a couple of years. It's through their efforts that we've been able to deliver this performance. And I'd also like to acknowledge all our customers and shareholders for their continued support. With that, I'd now like to hand back to the moderator to allow us to take questions.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from Lisa Huynh with JPMorgan.

So I just had a question around that conservative stance around the balance sheet. Is it largely the macro that you're provisioning for? So I guess, in 12 months' time, if the macro doesn't kind of deteriorate or not the end of the world, whether those room to look at more capital management?

So I'll have a quick go at that and then Bevan can pick up on anything thing I've missed. But we've put out there our target range or leverage target range of 1 to 2. And we've also said that we are positioning to stay at the bottom end of that -- that's where we're comfortable to run the business at. And we've also said that with the investments we've got planned over the coming -- in FY '23, particularly you'll start to see us move to the bottom end of that range. So right where we have said we want to hold it. So I don't see any capital management. We've also said should we find ourselves below the bottom of that range or below it for a sustained period, then we'll obviously look at those options again, but we don't -- we're not forecasting at the moment. We're expecting to get by the end of FY '23 or probably halfway through, we'll start to get quite close to the bottom end of that range.

Okay, sure. And I guess just on the Australian business, just a private label brand, Oliveri. I just noticed it's being stocked in a number of retailers here and Australia now outside of Tradelink. Can you just talk about what's happening with the strategy around that?

Yes. So Oliveri, I mean, we obviously use the Oliveri brand through Tradelink. But yes, it is stocked through winnings and other companies like that. And so they've got a broader strategy to go to the retailers as well as through our Tradelink distribution things. And we think that's complementary and not -- doesn't cannibalize it at all. So we're very comfortable with that, and it's going well. So -- and we have been increasing our range for a good, better, best sort of strategy where we've positioned the Oliveri at the best in, but we've got products now through Oliveri that compete up and down, what I call, the value proposition. So we expect that strategy -- it's working, and we'll continue with that.

Your next question comes from Grant Swanepoel with Jarden.

First question, just around your $100 million uplift of FY '23. A couple of things around that. Is any of the above normalized CapEx EBIT going to come through in FY '23? Second one around that, if you add back the COVID impact to the first half little bit of leverage on the business for the $5 million, you get to about a 9.7% margin for the first half. So I was just wondering how conservative is your guidance considering you did get 6% price increases through over FY '22?

So I won't comment Grant on the conservativeness of -- or otherwise of the guidance. But simplistically, the $100 million came and we've been very, very transparent about that as the first quarter impacts due to the disruptions in New Zealand and the shutdown. Well, we held our overhead and our people costs -- cost us $100 million of profit. So what we're sort of -- the thesis is not more complicated than, okay, we think the market backlog and volumes look pretty stable through FY '23 as we look at our own customers. So we see those volumes continuing and we don't see another COVID lockdown or disruptions through the year. So we're simply adding back that $100 million is how we think. In terms of our longer term $500 million CapEx that we've flagged into growth, the only 1 that will really drop into FY '23 is going to be the store acquisition, which we flagged at the Investor Day, will be $10 million to $12 million of profits through the FY '23 year. The balance of them tend to start generating profits after that, probably more in year 2 and 3 of that program.

Excellent. And then you're meeting the small board bulge. Is there any margin squeeze coming in the first half because of your -- or billings you're doing to mitigate?

So no. So the way we work and what we've been doing, I mean, if I take all of our building products, I'll start in the helicopter first is that, generally, as we -- commodity price supply agreements usually are over a period. So as we come off those, and we have to renegotiate. And if we do get cost increases, which generally is what we've been experiencing, that's when we pass costs on our prices on to customers. So we're not sort of -- we just got to make sure we marry that up as well as we can. So as we look at plasterboard, we're only just now concluding our renegotiation of our gypsum suppliers as well as our paper suppliers. So they're just happening now. So that will -- they are going up. So we're going to have to look at price in plasterboard again as we come on to those. But -- so we haven't been carrying that to date, but we are now staying to experience it as we come off our 60-year agreements on the new ones.

And my final question, just on central costs. I think once you net out that $15 million related to [ Tauranga ] was around about $63 million. What number should we look to the central costs for FY '23?

Yes. The $75 million is the right number for corporate costs in FY '23. And Grant, that's largely driven by that OpEx spend we flagged around the Digital@Fletchers program. So it's the backbone ERP systems. That's been all CapEx in FY '22. But as we move into the pilots, we've got about $10 million to $15 million of OpEx, and that will flow into the corporate. Otherwise, corporate is flat year-on-year.

Your next question comes from Simon Thackray with Jefferies.

Thanks, Ross. Thanks, Bevan. I'm not sure if the rest of the team are there, but I've got 4 questions, which I'll punch out as quickly as possible. You -- there's an addition in the annual report to the outlook to say that the 9% to 10% mid-cycle margins are premised on activity levels being 10% to 15% below the second half '22. So I need to do the math on the revenue, I do the math on the EBIT, but it looks like you're talking at the midpoint to around $750 million EBIT as being your through-cycle expectation, is that correct?

We don't -- we look at the first part of your question in the same way. So yes, we think mid-cycle as we said at Investor Day, Simon, it's about 10% to 15% below. So in New Zealand resi, for example, we think 30,000 consents thereabouts is the right level for mid-cycle versus what's built today at around 35 to 40. In terms of where that takes earnings, the difference in our outlook there, Simon, is that we've obviously got those growth investments underway. So we expect those to be additive. And we've said that we expect both at obviously, EBIT Quantum and also we've seen they're going to be margin-accretive investment. So we've been pretty clear, 9% to 10% is the right level, but we need to be factoring in that growth that is coming from those organic investments as well.

With the return hurdle, I presume, of 15%, is that the return hurdle?

That's right. We said at least 15% on those organic investment, which is consistent with what we applied in the past. And we think all of those at mid-cycle levels can deliver the 15% plus, that's right.

That's very helpful. And then just on your comments on leverage being at the bottom end just noting from the annual report at Note 9, the land and property commitments. I think they came in at $787 million this year versus $431 million with a note that $415 to be delivered in FY '23. That's I hope I'm reading this right, that's cash outflow. Does that go through the working capital?

So it flows through the resi working capital line that's spot on. You see that in the note disclosure. So you've got those investments coming. You've obviously also got land going out in the sense that you'll be selling houses on top of them. So that's not the -- that's -- you shouldn't expect that $400 million odd to be the total outflow. We do expect an increase in resi funds this year, and that's consistent with our growth strategy. We delivered just under 700 units this year. We're putting more towards 1,000 in FY '23, but with that longer-term objective up near the 1,400, 1,500. So yes, you'll see some working cap growth in resi this year, Simon, but not that full number that you point to.

Yes, which is a gross number, not a net number. That's helpful. And just while -- I don't know if Steve is there, but I guess it's a good opportunity just to get a live update on what foot traffic and consumer sentiment is around housing and how sales given what we're watching with the transaction volumes falling, median prices falling. And time on market, obviously rising. Just wondering if there's any feedback on the current conditions.

Absolutely. So if I just give you a sense of what we're seeing across our portfolio. Firstly, prices probably peaked around December 2022. And since then, on average, they've come off about 10%. What we saw is there was a bit of a hiatus in sort of sales and conditional contracts sort of becoming a feature probably back in March, April as people were quite nervous where it was going and my sense waiting to see where prices went to. But what we've actually seen since we've got into July, August sort of sales thing is that, we're actually -- it seems to be stabilizing about that average of 10% across our portfolio down. And then what we're also seeing is sales running at about 30% to 40%, which is about where we'd expect given our stock levels in the winter months. And there's far less in what I call conditional contracts there. So the consumers are sort of moved on now. And it feels like there's going to be a level of comfort coming into where prices have fallen to. They're confident they've got a good sense of where interest rates are going and where bank loans will be going. And so they seem to be returning to the market. So that's a real positive for us. So it feels like we've now got a base level to go forward for the year in terms of our house sales. So yes, and that sort of gives me a bit of confidence of what we're sort of projecting will occur through this coming year.

And then just the final one on the construction backlog for the legacy projects. I didn't see a number in the $3.2 billion backlog. I can see that in the annual report. But then also just for interest, what's now the largest single project by value as a proportion of the total backlog?

It's all into NZICC. Basically, we'll be able to roading projects in the next 6 to 9 months, and there's bits and bumps to go there. But fundamentally, it's NZICC, which is part the provision, which is not much about 0.1 or $100 million of provision maybe and then the balance is insurance work.

Your next question comes from Peter Wilson with Credit Suisse.

I might just follow that question up on the construction. Very good second half margin, 3.9% despite still having some revenue from those legacy projects. I was just wondering what proportion was those new margin legacy projects -- and I guess the margin, excluding that, should we expect that to be indicative of the go-forward margin you might expect?

I'll start from -- Peter, I'll start from the end. So we said construction should be delivering in that 3% to 5% range, and your spot on second half was firmly in the middle. So we'd be hoping to push into the upper end of that range. We've been very focused on the quality of the order book. And as you see that flow through, we expect good margin to follow. In terms of legacy, for the full year, it was about $250 million of legacy, i.e., nil margin work and that was split pretty evenly between the first and second half. So just north of $100 million in the second half would have been nil margin revenue.

Perfect. And another one probably for you, Bevan. Just the $100 million COVID impact on New Zealand, how do you -- can you provide a rough split by business?

We have not, and we will not. It was obviously concentrated in your larger manufacturing-based businesses where you get the fixed cost deleverage as the revenue turned off. But we also had a reasonably chunky impact in Steve's business. We didn't sell any houses for the Level 4 lockdown period. And also, you had the delay in construction that flowed through. And you can see that the year-end house units at 670, were obviously below where we wanted to be. So that kind of clipped the full year number. In volume terms, obviously, margin was significantly up just due to where house prices, particularly in Auckland were through the year.

Your next question comes from Marcus Curley with UBS.

Just a few. I just wondered if you can talk a little bit more to the job expansion project now that you're sort of closing in on the finish there? Maybe an update in terms of timing and potentially a view on returns from that project as we look into the next year?

Yes. So timing, it's running as we've been talking to really -- we should be in full production in May next year. So that means we're broadly doing trial board from February, March, just getting it commissioned and all that. So that's running well. And as we do that, we've still got the facility up here in Felix Street in Penrose, which sort of covers us. So we've got good transition planning through all that. So it's running to budget and on time, and it's going really well. So very confident on that. In terms of returns, it's actually not as simple as that, Marcus, because it's actually not a growth CapEx, it's actually -- part of it's replacing what was so the overall impact on the Building Products division and the wallboards is to actually drop its ROFE as we make that investment, but it will still stay above -- well above what we call our 15% target, but it will come down because we're basically manufacturing plasterboard in Auckland out of an end-of-life plant that's basically more or less depreciated. So it's the wrong way to look at it as incremental, what I call, returns on capital.

Would you expect any net negative out of it once it opens? Or do you think it could break even in the first year?

Oh, it's actually -- it will be a seamless transition. So there'll be no what I call deminuation of the wallboards profitability at the EBIT will flow. And in terms of any remediation costs, we've got around the site, that will be dealt with as we think of the overall capital envelope with we're investing. So it's really just get it working. And if anything, what it will do, just gives us better ability to have volumes meet the market, so think -- so very bullish about I wish it was open now.

And secondly, Ross, can you talk a little bit to the outlook for the steel business, particularly around margin looking into '23.

Yes, look, if you look at premise and what we're seeing in our businesses is the volumes and the orders and the activity take the second half FY '22 and just roll it across FY '23. So if I look at the steel activity, we'd expect it to be very similar. And this is not based on us just putting a thumb in there, it's talking to our customers, understanding that backlog of work to get through that disconnect between the amount of consent versus the capacity of the industry. It's also talking to our customer base, builders, group homebuilders, smaller builders. So we've got a bit of visibility of their order books, and we're looking at our own orders and volumes in our various businesses. So from my perspective, I'd expect the steel business to run pretty well, same again from that second half. And that's what we're sort of pointing to across all of our Building Products businesses.

So you're not expecting a material impact on margins from falling steel commodity prices?

Well, it's a bit -- they go up and down. And what happens is that you always have opportunity and issues in the steel trading business because effectively you're buying stock and then selling it. So whether it's going up or down, it can have an impact. But what it is, is mostly volatile. So you can have spikes. So you might make a bit in some months and be a bit below run rate the next month. So what you find is it tends to average out over the year. So the answer is no, because we don't carry a whole 12 months of stock. You basically are a trader in the steel. So therefore, it sort of sorts itself out as you go through the year.

And then on the dividend, can you give us sort of any -- I know you've talked about your leverage levels, but any perspective on where you think you might take the dividend next year given the higher level of profitability one would assume you're looking to try and make sure that the dividend level is sustainable through the cycle?

So if I look just forward to next year rather than predicted over 5 years because I think that's unfair. We're very specific on the 50% to 75% payout range of net profit after tax. And if -- so to the extent FY '23, we've also said we think we'll be $100 million higher in EBIT. So that should give us -- therefore the opportunity to pay out more dividend is there, then it's a decision for the Board after that. But the direction of travel in our underlying profitability is the core, I think, indicator of where the dividend goes. So I'm optimistic of the dividend outlook, but I don't -- I'm not sitting here trying to predict it through mid-cycle.

And then just finally, maybe 1 for Bevan. Can you talk -- I know you sort of highlighted this, but yes, specifically to cash tax payments this year and working capital, will you be paying full cash tax and by the sounds of things, working capital relatively stable, would that be the right conclusion?

Yes, 3 components. Peter, cash tax payments this year, obviously, in New Zealand, not yet back to cash tax paying in Australia, but cash tax payments in New Zealand for full year '23 in a year will probably be at around $180 million. So we'll be back to normal levels, which is enabling us to impute those dividends, which is positive. On working capital, as I mentioned before to Simon, you will see investment in the residential business as we invest to grow that business. On working capital outside of residential, yes, you should expect that to be broadly flat because we think those investments that we made in stock in FY '22 have got us to about the right level even to support a little bit of growth that we're targeting in FY '23.

So Bevan, can I draw you on what type of number that adds up to?

In terms of the working cap investment?

Yes.