Compagnie de Saint-Gobain S.A. (SGO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you. Good evening, everybody. I hope that you have received our press release and that you have been able to go through the highlights. So together with Maud, our CFO, we will present our first quarter '25 performance. Overall, Saint-Gobain delivered plus 3.2% sales growth in the first quarter, reflecting the group successful strategic execution and the improving trends in certain markets. Like-for-like sales were almost stable with growth in the Americas, Asia Pacific and Northern Europe as expected, our European markets are either stabilizing or beginning to recover depending on the countries. The group delivered overall a clear sequential improvement in volumes in the quarter, stable at comparable working days. Also, the group successfully increased pricing in the first quarter, thanks to targeted price increases and the added value that our comprehensive range of innovative and sustainable solutions bring to our customers. We continued also to deliver on our strategic priorities with the closing of 2 important acquisitions in Construction Chemicals in Q1 2025, Cemix in Latin America, and FOSROC in India and the Middle East. These 2 acquisitions will further accelerate our presence in these fast-growing markets. In a contrasted macroeconomic environment and with geopolitical uncertainty, requiring further regionalization, Saint-Gobain is well equipped. We can count on the strength of our decentralized organization country by country and also the balanced contribution of our different geographies. Thanks to our fully local value chains from individual footprint, logistics and purchasing to brands, sales and customers, the group is ideally positioned on our local construction markets and not directly impacted by customs tariffs. In this new setting, our teams will continue to adapt swiftly to local conditions and manage what is under their control in order to outperform exactly as they have been doing successfully in recent years. I now hand over to Maud, who will give you additional information about our first quarter sales.

Thank you, Benoit, and good evening, everyone. I'm delighted to join you all. In recent weeks, I have started to engage with some of you, and I look forward to future exchanges. Now starting with Q1 sales growth. In Q1, we had a positive scope impact of 3.9%, mainly reflecting our recent acquisitions, CSR in Australia, Bailey in Canada, Cemix in Latin America and FOSROC in India and the Middle East. The currency effect was slightly negative at minus 0.4%, becoming more negative throughout the quarter as the U.S. dollar and most emerging market currencies depreciated against the euro. As you know, this is purely a translation effect for Saint-Gobain for the full year 2025 at today's spot rate, we currently expect foreign exchange to have a negative impact on sales of close to minus 2%. Volume showed a meaningful sequential improvement and were stable at comparable working days. Working days had a negative impact of around 1% in Q1. Keep in mind, working days will again be negative in Q2 at around minus 1% and be more negative in Northern Europe at around minus 2%. Prices were up 0.8% in the first quarter. Our teams once again showed disciplined execution in an overall environment of slight inflation in raw material and energy costs. We are on track to deliver a slightly positive price/cost spread for the full year 2025 as planned. Now let us look by segment. Overall, in Europe, the sequential improvement in Q1 continued, driven by growth in Northern Europe. Volumes were down 1.7%. This was a clear improvement on Q4 when volumes were down 3.3%. Construction activity in European countries was either stabilizing or beginning to recover. Northern Europe grew 2% like-for-like with all the main countries in the region delivering volume growth, Germany, the U.K., the Nordics and Eastern Europe. The renovation market grew, driven by the increasing number of existing home transactions and improving household purchasing power. Prices stabilized in the region on a high comparison basis. Thanks to targeted price increases. The approval of the large German stimulus plan should be positive for the country and more broadly, for the wider region. Regarding Southern Europe, France's performance in Q1 confirmed what we said at the end of February that the country reached a low point in Q4 2024. We benefited from Saint-Gobain's strong renovation exposure, comprehensive range of innovative solutions and dedicated sales offer adapted to various market segments, both residential and nonresidential. Spain, Italy saw continued growth as did Middle East and Africa, driven by Egypt, thanks to our recent investment in the country. Prices in Southern Europe remained slightly negative, but sequentially improved on a high comparison basis, thanks to targeted price increases. Now moving on to the Americas. The Americas region grew by 3% like-for-like in Q1 with North America remaining at a good level of activity, and Latin America continuing its good dynamics. North America continued to grow, driven by prices and good volumes in renovation. In a more uncertain environment, the group benefited from its local business model protected from customs tariffs as just was highlighted by Benoit. Over 50% of sales are in renovation, particularly roofing, which is a must-have and where demand remained higher than supply. The U.S. new construction market has stabilized at a level below the country's structural needs with interest rates remaining high. Keep in mind, we have a local footprint with 91 plants in the U.S. and Canada to serve the local construction markets. Saint-Gobain is very well positioned to continue to outperform in the region, thanks to our unique set of value-added solutions. Latin America grew 9.8%, driven by continued good momentum in Brazil on a favorable comparison basis. Our teams delivered market share gains in light construction. In Latin America, the closing of Cemix further strengthens our position in Construction Chemicals. Now moving on to Asia Pacific. The region saw like-for-like growth of 3.9% in Q1. India delivered another strong performance with double-digit volume growth, outperforming, thanks to its complete solution approach and the power of its brand. India's growth more than compensated the continued downturn in new construction in China, although we performed better on the renovation market in the country. Southeast Asia's growth was driven by Vietnam, thanks to its tailor-made digital services and the launch of differentiated and low-carbon offers. Regarding CSR. CSR's integration is going well. The company delivered a good operational performance, while enhancing its range of solutions dedicated to the local market. Now let us look at our High Performance Solutions segment, which also benefits from a local footprint. With, for instance, 60 plants in the U.S. to supply our American customers. In Q1, HPS organic sales were stable, helped by good performance from the construction activities. Businesses serving construction customers grew 3.4% like-for-like in Q1. They were driven by ADFORS GlasGrid solutions and Construction Chemicals, which delivered 26% growth, a combination of both organic growth and the integration of FOSROC. This acquisition marks the acceleration of the group in Construction Chemicals in high-growth countries, particularly India, the Middle East and Asia Pacific. Businesses serving industry declined slightly affected by some kind of wait-and-see attitude from customers in the context of geopolitical uncertainties. And finally, mobility sales were up 0.9% like-for-like in Q1 despite the auto market remaining challenging. We benefited from our investment in innovation and our position on high value-added models. To sum up this good first quarter performance. Volumes showed a clear sequential improvement and were stable at comparable working days. Prices were up 0.8%, and we are confident to deliver a slightly positive price/cost spread for the full year. I am confident that Saint-Gobain's business model is extremely well adapted to the current environment, which requires even greater regionalization. And I will now hand over to Benoit for the concluding remarks.

Thank you, Maud. So a few comments to conclude. In a macroeconomic environment that remains contrasted, Saint-Gobain will continue to demonstrate a very strong operating performance in 2025. Assuming no major slowdown in global growth linked to geopolitical uncertainties, the group expects the following trends. We continue to expect flattish to slightly positive volumes for the full year 2025 at group level, with a slight volume decrease in H1, including in the second quarter and H2 to show a gradual volume recovery, driven by Europe, where we see construction markets either stabilizing or beginning to recover. We expect the Americas to remain at a good level of activity and Asia Pacific to grow led by India, Southeast Asia and the integration of CSR in Australia. Within High Performance Solutions, we expect dynamic growth in Construction Chemicals, mobility to hold firm, while industrial markets are affected by a certain wait-and-see attitude. We confirm our guidance of an operating margin of more than 11% in 2025. The current uncertain macroeconomic and geopolitical environment underlines the pertinence of our local business model. All our operations are actually already regionalized, including HPS, High Performance Solutions, with a local value chain. The current environment requires this type of regionalization. We also have proven time and time again in recent years that our country managers are able to deal with uncertainties and that they are also proactive in their actions. I can tell you that they are very focused on a small set of priorities, pricing, cost management, and multiple other actions in order to execute well on all business fundamentals. All in all, we have a clear and focused strategy as a leader in light and sustainable construction that is paying off strongly. Our comprehensive range of solutions will continue to offer the group numerous opportunities for our performance. So in this context, I'm confident that Saint-Gobain will demonstrate a very strong operating performance in 2025. Thank you for your attention. And now Maud and myself, we are happy to answer any questions.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from Elodie Rall of JPMorgan.

My first question is on the -- in the U.S. So you perform -- the performance was robust you said. It was held at a good level. If you could give us a bit more detail on the volume development. And if you've seen any weakening towards the end of the quarter, given the news on tariffs and the deteriorating outlook. And if you are a bit more worried about the U.S. exposure of the group there for the remaining of the year? That's my first question. My second question is on Construction Chemicals. So you gave us a 26% increase as a reported number. Would you have a bit more color on a like-for-like basis in terms of performance in Q1? And my last question is on the development in volumes overall. You already at minus 0.3% in Q1. Could we expect volume to turn positive as early as Q2, you think?

Thank you, Elodie. So I will take question number 1, Maud number 2 and either Maud or myself question number 3. On the U.S., yes, we see a robust overall level. You have seen that in the Americas, the volumes were slightly negative. Latin America was a bit above the average and North America a bit below. But overall, a good level. Roofing in particular was very strong. And as you know, we are sold out like the rest of the industry. So we are confident that roofing will continue on the good trend, including on some pricing actions that we have launched on April 1. We gained share on roofing. I know we gained share also on wallboard. So we have been particularly successful on those business lines. Canada is doing well. So overall, a good level of activity, and we expect that to continue in Q2. We have not seen any weakening end of March or even if I take the recent news in April. So no particular weakening since the beginning of the year in the U.S., keeping in mind that the volume of activity is below the structural needs of the market. There is a lack of 4 million homes, give or take, in just in the U.S. We need to build 5 million homes in Canada. And Canada is very active. We have already volume growth in Canada in the last quarter of 2024. So overall structural needs long term and a good level of activity in North America. Maud, you want to take the next one?

Yes,sure. Sure, Benoit. So regarding the Construction Chemicals, this is not per se reporting segment, but we can give you some color. In Q1, HPS Construction activities grew 3.4% and Construction Chemicals were slightly below that, but in a good growth dynamic and the integration of FOSROC is going on very well. We are quite happy with that.

And on your third question, Elodie, for Q2, it's too early to tell, but we expect overall volumes to be slightly down for the first half, keeping in mind there is -- so again still negative in the second quarter. Keeping in mind that there is also a technical effect in Q2 in terms of number of working days. Northern Europe, Maud explained that Northern Europe, we expect that to be also technically with a more negative effect in the second quarter, notably because of Easter being in April this year versus March last year. So we expect more or less the same trend in Q2 and then volumes turning positively more in the second half. But overall, we had a pretty good start of the year, be it in pricing or in volumes.

The next question is from Paul Roger of BNP Paribas.

Congratulations on the good stuff. So 2 questions from me, please. The first one is regarding natural gas. Obviously, this has been coming down recently. Can you remind us what your annual gas exposure is and how hedged you are, and maybe also just how they locked in price in those hedges compared to the current spot price? And then secondly, how do you think this recent volatility could impact your approach to M&A, if at all, obviously?

Thank you. So I will maybe take the second one and Maud will take the first one. Keeping in mind that a lot of hedging is quite commercially sensitive, so we don't give you all the details, but Maud will give you some color. Volatility, yes, there is some pretty big volatility, be it on the overall financial markets, also on currency. Again, when we deliver on M&A, because we have a long-term strategic fit with a target that we know well that is totally aligned with our strategy, where we have very strong financial returns and where we feel culturally, it is like we have done in recent years on multiple occasions. So I would not take advantage, I would say, of short-term volatility for long-term move because, again, when we deliver on M&A, we are there for the long term. Now we will, of course, remain agile. We are, as you know, with a clear strategy on light and sustainable construction, the international development of the group will go on and we'll continue to be active in multiple geographies, but I would not speculate or take particular advantage of the short-term volatility for M&A moves. And maybe Maud will share on the first question on natural gas.

Yes. Well, the natural gas is part of our energy supply. So energy is a bit less than EUR 2 billion in 2024. Gas is about approximately half of it. There has been some volatility, but still the energy prices are stabilizing at -- if we compare to what we have seen in 2022, for instance. So we are back to our standard hedging policies, and we are monitoring that closely.

So we will benefit a bit from the open market on what is not hedged, but a portion already is hedged.

The next question is from Ebrahim Homani of CIC.

Two, if I may. The first one is about France. It has the weakest organic growth. Can we maybe have details on your volumes and price dynamics in France, and is it starting to improve? And my second question is about Asia Pacific, it showed strongest organic growth. Do you see that the outperformance will continue in the next quarters? And does it give you maybe added confidence in your margin guidance as the region margins are over 17%.

So your first question is on France. Yes, indeed, France is the weakest market because as you heard from Maud, we have seen volume growth in the U.K., in the Nordics, in Eastern Europe, now for 5 consecutive quarters in Germany. So in Spain, France, we confirm what we said already end of February, i.e., we have seen the French market stabilize. We said that in Q4, it's true again in Q1. Still, we are below Q1 of '24 because we dropped during the year '24, but we truly think that the French market has stabilized. After that, there are some green shoots on the French market. You see an increased number of housing transactions. You see affordability being improved by interest rates on credit facilities coming down. So there are some green shoots in France overall. We see the order book of renovation within Craftsmen being solid. So that should translate again in a meaningful improvement in the second half. But you are right to say that among all the significant countries, France is still the weakest, but the good news, it has stabilized. We can confirm that. And green shoots are there for us and moving now in the right direction. Also, the French government, you may have seen that in February and March, extended the net 0 interest rate alone for the first-time buyer across all the country. So it's up to EUR 100,000 of loan at zero interest rate, it's supportive. It's not the only impact, but it's supportive for new builds. So we have seen a bit more activity from the homebuilders and a bit more confident gaining momentum in the market. You want to take APAC. APAC overall, we have been delivering, extremely well double-digit growth in India. Southeast Asia performing well, notably Vietnam, China being down, but like last year, and we don't expect a short-term recovery in China. But clearly, India will continue to have a very good momentum. As you know, we are extremely well positioned in India being #1 in every single of our product line. We continue to invest in India. I'm extremely confident that FOSROC, half of FOSROC profit and activity is driven by India. So it's something that will continue to build up the strong momentum of India and Asia Pacific for us going forward. So yes, Asia Pacific will have a good run in '25 on top line and bottom line.

The next question is from Ephrem Ravi of Citigroup.

So 2 questions. Firstly, on the mobility segment within HPS. Can you remind us how much of that is sort of local for local, it's 7.5% of group sales. So I suppose it's about 3.5 billion. And there, given the tariff impacts, do you see some potential issues in the second quarter and the third quarter regarding sort of end customer demand?

Yes. Okay. So HPS overall, it's around 7% of group sales. We have a bit less than half of that in Europe, and the rest being in the North America region and in Asia. It's very interesting to note, and maybe that's something that we could have highlighted a bit more in recent years is that even those businesses within High Performance Solutions, they are driven in terms of execution, supply chain locally by region. So we deliver Mexican and U.S. customers out of Mexico. In Asia, we are implemented -- we are sorry, located in Thailand, Korea and China and in Europe, between West and East Europe. So it's a regional setup of footprint on the manufacturing side and also on the management side. Also, if I take a different angle, it's true for mobility. It's true for other business lines. Our innovation is also driven regionally. We have an R&D center in India, 1 in China, 1 in Brazil, 1 in the U.S. and 1 in France, 1 in Germany. So even the innovation, the R&D and therefore, all the new products and the drive we could bring to our customers is driven regionally. If I take the big picture, we are only talking across the group, and of course, including also mobility. We are talking only about, let's say, 0.2% of American sales driven by China, U.S. cross-border flows. So it's totally insignificant. And across North America, including on the mobility side, we are talking about only a few percentage. So -- and those very limited few percentage flows. They are qualified under the USMCA agreement. So again, when we say that Saint-Gobain is not directly impacted by the tariffs, we mean it. It's something which is extremely robust for us. So it should not impact also HPS because we are local for local in the different continents.

And Maud on your comment that the Construction Chemicals like-for-like was slightly lower than the 3.9% or 3.5% growth in the construction market, if I caught it correctly. Is the growth trend also similar to the -- on a geographic basis, similar to the overall kind of group, i.e., sort of Europe slightly weak, but Asia Pacific and LatAm strong. Would that be a fair like-for-like calculation for construction?

I wouldn't say that. I think we are having a good dynamic. It's more a country-by-country dynamic, and we're seeing good growth in Construction Chemical across the board. What is clear is that we are really -- compared to best peers in this area, we are performing quite well. So we are happy with that, and growing quite fast everywhere. India, Benoit mentioned India. India is a great example of high-growth country for Construction Chemical as well, where we have a strong presence now with FOSROC.

The next question is from Cedar Ekblom of Morgan Stanley.

Just 1 question from me on pricing in your European business. The question on the energy cost tailwinds. It sounds like the benefit from spot moves lower will be more modest because of the hedging that you have in place. And your pricing in your European businesses were still down in the first quarter. So I wonder if you could talk about how you're thinking about your commercial approach from here considering -- well, I'm taking your message that we shouldn't expect a massive tailwind on energy in Europe. How do we think about that from a top line perspective?

Yes, sure. No, we cannot and we don't want to give you the precise percentage of hedging versus not hedged, but yes, in Europe, we will benefit from lower energy cost if it continues. Again, it has been as Paul mentioned, extremely volatile on multiple fronts. So let's remain cautious because we cannot bank for that for the next 8 months for sure, but we will benefit from a drop of energy cost, including in Europe. I can tell you that in Europe, like in North America, we have multiple pricing initiatives as we speak. It has been true in glass and the exit rate on pricing end of Q1 or early April has been moving in the right direction. And I think we can say with confidence that pricing should turn slightly positive in Europe in Q2. So a lot of those actions are taking place beginning of March, beginning of April. We have reasonable feedback from the ground that those actions are going to stay and be successful. So we should see a visible improvement on the pricing dynamic in Europe in the second quarter. And notably on glass, which has been, as you know, over the last 18 months, a bit more challenging, but we had a good -- much better momentum and a very, very strong focus on pricing for us in glass.

The next question is from Arnaud Lehmann of Bank of America.

Three quick questions, if I may. Firstly, can you confirm that you still see a positive price cost outlook for the full year? I remember [indiscernible] Sreedhar talking about a slightly positive price cost. Do you stick with that view? That's the first question. The second question just a follow-up on tariffs. Can you confirm that you don't have meaningful flows between the U.S. and Canada? You've been [indiscernible] in Canada, it's quite a big market for you. The products in Canada are produced locally, sell locally, same for the U.S., there's no major flows between the 2 countries. And the last one, could you give us an update on the aluminum smelter of CSR. I think you were trying to sell your stake. And also, I heard press article about the strike in the smelter in the last few months. Can you give us an update on that, please?

You take the first one, Maud and I...

Yes, sure, sure. So price cut spread will be positive as we are slightly positive for the full year and for the first half of the year.

Thank you. So we stay extremely focused and good execution on that. Second question, yes, I confirm that, Arnaud, that there is no meaningful flow. As we said, it's a few percentage points across the different countries, be it Mexico to U.S. or Canada to U.S. or vice-versa. And those very limited percentage, they are again qualified for the USMCA agreement. So it's extremely safe, I would say, on this side. As you remember, we have 37 plants in Canada. We are busy in Canada. So we serve the Canadian market from Canada. And you may know that in Canada, for Canadian customers, it's extremely important commercially speaking, to be Canadian. Not only in the last few weeks or few months, but even in prior years, why did we wanted to buy green products of Canada? Because unless you are a producer of roofing products in Canada, you don't participate or very little in the market. So we are #1 in plasterboard. We are participating in insulation. We are now #1 on steel frame. We are with a very solid position on cladding and roofing and all that is for Canada. So yes, no meaningful flow and no direct impact from the tariffs. Again, we are very local with multiple plants. So we have the density of setup everywhere if we stay just in North America to service extremely well. On the smelter, we are only indirect 25% minority shareholder on that. So the actor being in the driving seat is Rio Tinto. So there has been no particular news on this smelter out of CSR out of Australia. It's deconsolidated in our figures. Remember, maybe that at the time of the close, we said that we have put the value at a very minimal, minimal, minimal, if you see what I mean level. So we don't expect any impact from that when we have an exit situation. And again, the driving is taken care of by Rio Tinto. I can tell you also on the different front in CSR that we are making good progress, but we'll update you during the year on what we want to achieve in terms of real estate and property divestments. So we have done a bit of that end of last year, and we are active as we speak, on some important real estate and property development in Australia as planned. So it's moving as scheduled.

The next question is from Yassine Touahri of On Field Investment Research.

Three questions on my side. First, do you believe there could be any benefit of lower oil price and lower bitumen costs for your roofing business in the U.S.? I think historically, when bitumen costs were down, it was a supporting margin. . Then on the second question would be on capital allocation. Over the past 5 years, a very large part of your investment effort has been in North America, where you've acquired a lot of assets in the U.S. and Canada. In the current environment where there is a lot of uncertainty over the economic policy of the Trump administration, does North America remains a key priority? Or could you focus more on Europe and emerging markets? And then the last question as well on strategy. We see this company, QXO, which is investing in building material distribution. And I understand that the CEO believe that it can transform the sector by putting in place best practice on the information technology and logistics. It looks like they're willing to build the $50 billion business globally, and they've been considering investing in Europe. On your side, you'd rather scale back on distribution over the past 5 years, saving underperforming business. So my question would be, what's your take on the CEO of QXO views on [indiscernible]. Is there any advantage that could have that QXO could have that is difficult for Saint-Gobain to reproduce? Or is there anything that I'm missing?

A lot of questions. Thank you for all your questions. I'll take the first one on bitumen cost. Well, the first order of magnitude in roofing in North America is that the industry sold out. There is a strong level of activity because of the carryover of the storms. It's too early to know exactly what will be the storm season, I would say. But there is a lot of carryover. So the pricing that we have announced, we are considering that it will stick. And as you remember, we are also opening in Georgia, a wider line, which will add a net roughly 2% of the market. So it's not meaningful. But since we are sold out, it will be good for our volume growth. So as we speak, yes, if asphalt cost goes down, and on top of that, our pricing environment remains strong, it's supportive mathematically speaking for the margin. So I'm confident that roofing, as I said already, will have a good momentum in the second quarter. The capital allocation on North America, we have been extremely happy with what we delivered in North America, both inorganically with the various acquisitions, be it in the U.S., Continental, GCP or Canada and also organically through CapEx. The way we look at the North American market, like any market is the growth. We know that in North America, there is a huge gap in terms of housing, in terms of infrastructure, same in Canada, 5 million homes to build between now and 2030. So North America will remain a place for us to invest in the short, mid or long term. And housing needs, they are bipartisan. You could be in a democratic Republican state, whatever, you need housing. So there is a support for housing everywhere across the board. In the U.S., it's not a political topic. It's supported by everyone. So if I take the residential market, we will be happy to continue to support the market. We have those openings in plasterboard and in roofing around the summer. We are also going to start our plant in Canada, in Montreal, which will be the first in North America with zero carbon plasterboard totally electrified with hydro power in Canada. It's a meaningful offer and commercial differentiation versus our competitors. And I can tell you that in the U.S., because we had a lot of exchange, sustainable construction means better billings. You cannot replace your roofing shingle and you are not going to find an insurance if you want to have a better mix. So sustainable construction means better billings, more resilient buildings. If I take the office space, you have a 25% premium office with a LEED A certificate versus regular buildings. So all this is moving in the right direction in North America on top of the natural growth of the population, integration, households, et cetera. So I'm confident that being local in the U.S., being local in Canada, as I said, we don't suffer from uncertainty on tariffs. We are not impacted by the tariffs. So there are some good ideas to continue to invest in North America. I did talk to our North American leader just 2 hours ago. We will continue to do that. It's -- of course, as you have seen, we have multiple also other opportunities to invest in fast-growing markets, India, Asia Pacific, Middle East. Australia is a new continent for us. So the international development of the group will continue. Of course, we will give you more granularity on that at the Capital Market Day in early October. QXO, I think it's a bit too early to say what's going to happen. I think it's interesting because in the U.S., we have to keep in mind that you have roughly 75% of the market, which is a one-step distributors and professional distribution talking to contractors. They are very loyal to the brand. You give a guarantee. They have been trained with your brand. So it's extremely important to pay attention to that. You have roughly 15%, 20% on 2 steps, and the rest on do-it-yourself. So we have a bit of experience and I have it personally across the different formats of distribution. You have to make sure that you manage the conflict of channels that you respect the different contractors and stakeholders in the value chain. So let's see what this new actor will bring. I can tell you that we have seen a lot of consolidation in North American distribution, U.S. first and now a bit coming to Canada in recent years. And all it has been positive for us because we like when the markets are consolidated on the manufacturing side, when they are consolidated on the distribution side. And this is the move we have seen in the last 10, 15 years. So -- and from my experience, the more advanced professional distribution was more in the Nordics. If I take digital, we have 35%, 40% of e-commerce in our channels of distribution in the Nordics. I don't see that in the U.S. on professional distribution, even with [indiscernible] roofing of the big names, even SRS that have been bought by Home Depot last year. Home Depot was very smart to keep it separate and to respect the professional channel. But if I take the digital as 1 example, I will not say that U.S. leads on that, it's more the Nordic countries or some sales and digital activity we have seen in Asia, what we are doing in India, in Vietnam, all our channels of distribution is 100% digital. So I think the more advanced formats on distribution are more a bit outside of the U.S. so far, but it will be interesting indeed to see the evolution of all this in North America.

The next question is from Pujarini Ghosh of Bernstein.

I have 1 question. So as you were mentioning previously that the mobility business is run locally in terms of production management and R&D., what benefit are you still seeing from keeping this business a separate segment? Previously, you had mentioned that it's because your customers are global. Is it still the case? And if not, then why not combine it into the regions?

You have another question or it's the only 1 you...

This is it.

Okay. Sure. Now what is interesting to note on some of those businesses. It's true for mobility. It's true for Chryso, the admixtures for concrete or additives for cement is that we have global key accounts. So when you want to decarbonize the big cement players, you have a key account owner of Heidelbergcement within Chryso of Holcim. Same on mobility. You have a key account of Tesla or Volkswagen. After that, you deliver and you execute that strategy regionally and it's more and more meaningful indeed to be regional, of course, in terms of execution, in terms of management, in terms of innovation. It's also important to keep this kind of global key account management, this kind of global innovation if there is something very attractive, and we have been very early on the EV, electrical vehicle, with Tesla, for example, historically 10 years ago, then we could replicate that out of the U.S. and Mexico to China and after that to Germany. Same again on some of the segments for Construction Chemicals with key accounts. So I think what is interesting and thinking ahead is making sure that you have the global view in terms of innovation, key account management, but to deliver more and more of the synergies locally. And for instance, if I take Construction Chemicals, which is another example. When we deliver the admixtures for a concrete player on the job site, we try to learn and gain market share and share of wallet on other segments because you are very early on with a slab, on the floor, on concrete, but then you know that you will build a facade, you will bid partition, you will build roofing. So it's a very good continuum of commercial synergies on the job site. So that's the kind of double benefit. We expect to continue to see leverage the regional approach, which is more and more meaningful, while keeping the performance of the segment on the worldwide basis.

The next question is from Tobias Woerner of Stifel.

Your exposure to EV is what you said mobility is 7%. And within EV, what is -- if you can give that number but probably a bit commercial, your exposure to Tesla or at least give us a sense of what that exposure is? That's number one. Number two, when I look at publicly available data for flat glass in Europe, it seems to me that March versus December is up almost 9% at the moment. So things seem to be turning around. Could you give us a sense of that as well, please, and what you think about it? And then delving into your comment around price cost, Maud said, energy is slightly below EUR 2 billion, 50% of that is gas. But raw materials is a big chunk of your cost base as is labor or wages. And when I look at the spreadsheet here in front of me in terms of material costs, which matter to you, they seem to be falling quite markedly over the last 2 quarters or so, especially in the last month. So it seems to me that the price cost could be better than that unless you're telling me that the wage costs are still up, whatever, 4% to 5% rather than 2% to 3%?

So I will take the first and Maud you will take the #3. So EV altogether is roughly 30% of our mix. I'm not going to comment specifically on 1 customer, even though it's a meaningful customer. I can tell you that with this customer, we are doing well, and they are doing well. So notably in North America and in China. So versus what we read or hear in terms of public comments, the activity on the ground, including in China, [indiscernible] Shanghai Auto Show as we speak, and our mobility head is there, and I did talk to him yesterday. This customer is doing quite well. So overall, all the positioning that we have put on mobility has been up to 30% roughly on EV, which is a better mix or also the hybrid vehicle, it's a better mix in terms of value add in the glazing, in terms of innovation, coating. So that is moving in the right direction. And if 1 day, 1 model of 1 customer is coming down, the capability on the technical side from Saint-Gobain, frankly, I don't want to seem arrogant, but are second to none. So all the big names, the Mercedes, the Porsche, in terms of development of value-added models, they come to us. So if 1 specific customer, 1 specific model at some point could be down, then we will leverage our technical capabilities for other OEMs. And overall, you have seen that our mobility performance in the first quarter has been pretty strong, up almost 1 point. Maud, you...

Yes, sure, Benoit. On flat glass in Europe, indeed, the prices have moved up in the past months. There are several factors. First is, of course, the capacity balance, which has stabilized and improved in Europe. Demand also is picking up and helping on that. And prices are being pushed by the teams on the ground, and that's going quite well. We are also focusing on mix enhancement because the whole purpose is to move towards added value solutions, and that's where you actually end up creating value for your customers and for Saint-Gobain, obviously. Regarding the price cost and the inflation, actually, we're seeing a slight inflationary environment for the full year, and we are sticking to that view because we're seeing inflation on several of our raw materials, which are quite key. Gypsum, cement, cellet, paper, asphalt, raw material and energy are about a bit less than EUR 12 billion in 2024. And we're seeing, again, inflation, transportation and packaging are also seeing inflation. And as far as wages are concerned, we are, as you mentioned, 2% to 3% inflation in wages. So what we're seeing on the field is really more a slight inflation for the full year. That should remain.

Okay. I mean, it would be good to, at some stage, get the spread of these materials. I do have the spread. But when I look at things such as liquid asphalt, which as I mentioned earlier, is down 4% now. PVC resins were down 9%. Coking Coke is down 10%, steel is down 9%, scrap is down 11.5%. So there's a lot of numbers which have come down significantly in March. So not quite -- don't quite recognize your comment around inflation. Yes, gypsum is up 1.8%, sand is up 3%, cement is up 1.6%. But...

Pellet as well and...

You have to differentiate, Tobias, region by region because it's -- there are a lot of moving pieces. And the very short-term assumption, again, it has been up and down quite volatile recently. So our main scenario is exactly what Maud mentioned. We are still in a slight inflation environment. Who knows what's going to happen on some of those materials. We are still being impacted by some tariffs in some parts of the world. So a lot of moving pieces. And we -- as of today, we think we have some slight inflation on all this.

[Operator Instructions].

Seems there is no more questions. So thank you very much for your time and all your questions. I look forward to speaking to you, and we will be together with Maud for the release of our H1 2025 results on July 31, 2025. In the meantime, we will have the AGM of Saint-Gobain on the 5th of June. And as you know, we will be holding the Capital Market Day in Paris on October 6. So we look forward to seeing many of you there. And I wish you a very good evening. Thank you very much.