Freelancer Limited (FLN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, and welcome to the Freelancer Limited Full Year 2022 Financial Results Presentation. My name is Matt Barrie, and I'm Chief Executive of Freelancer Limited. With me today in the room, I have Neil Katz, who's the Chief Financial Officer of Freelancer Limited; Shaun McMeeken, who's the VP of Styles; Adam Byrnes, who's the VP of Products; and I've got Drew Davis, who's the General Manager, Loadshifts. And after the commentary, you may address questions in the Q&A to any of the people in the room, and we'll be happy to answer those questions for you. So in FY '22, our gross payment volume was $1.127 billion. It's down 10.5% on pcp or USD 789, down 16.4% on pcp. The Freelancer GMV was $128.4 million, which is down 4.5% on pcp. The Escrow GPV was $953.4 million, which is down 11.7% on pcp. Revenue was down 3%, $55.7 million. Freelancer was down 1.1% or breakeven at $45.6 million. Escrow is down 11.1% at $10.1 million. For the year in those growth was down a little bit. It was profitable in FY '22. FX was a tailwind of 7.6% in FY '22 and, 74% of the group revenue is in U.S. dollars and 9% in Australian dollars. We had negative operating cash flow of negative $4.2 million for the year and ended with cash and cash equivalents of $23.4 million, down 23%. Now going segment by segment. Freelancer revenue was effectively flat at $45.6 million. We saw a couple of things happened in the year for FY '22. We saw a runoff of the super seasonality we saw at COVID. We think that we should be kind of in the clear now, back into normal sort of seasonality because I think that is mostly waning, at least be hopeful is mostly waning. It is in the effective number of core metrics, primarily project fees. But the other fees like memberships were affected. However, in '22, we also see positive. We made a lot of improvements to the products, profitability of the acquisition programs and we also rectified what we believe is a long-standing problem in the core marketplace. So I think we're set up for a very good year this year in the core marketplace for Freelancer. We had 6.7 million new users, 1.2 million new projects, and the average project size has continued to lift. It was up from USD 235 to USD 252. It was up 7% on pcp. It's the highest value to date on record. Liquidity in the marketplace remains strong intangibles that we have received in 60 seconds dropped slightly from 59% to 51%. That's mainly due to our efforts to kind of lock out spammy bids the Freelancers are using tools to bid and so that reduced slightly, but it does remain strong. If you look at the 5 minutes, a bid within 5 minutes, it's pretty much the same and actually increased 84% to 87%. So liquidity is good. We just locked out a lot of the bit of the quick bidding that from Freelancer don't read the profile -- the product descriptions properly. The contest liquidity remains exceptionally strong. It's pretty amazing. In fact, there's a late last night by the U.S. market actually, that said Freelancer is one of my most underrated websites on the Internet. And it was rating on about contest and how good they work, about half of the spend was in contest. On average to that, 320 entries in the contest, which is pretty remarkable given the fact that the contest start from $10. And you can go all the way up to very, very large-scale contests. The largest contest we're about to run in the next 12 months is with the National Ministry of Health on -- in the field of gene editing and the price per square is USD 6 million. So 10 months to $6 million bus is contrasted dilution with pretty remarkable results. We had 3 missions last year in terms of the product and the engineering. Our purpose was to improve the visual design, our responses to UI/UX to get consistent, I think we achieved that very well. If you use the site frequently, you'll see the dramatic improvements there. And so we've got a really good platform now from there in terms of the design. We also had made enhancements to payments, enterprise features, matchmaking and collaboration. I'll go to them in a second. And we also made a lot of improvements in the acquisition, retention and engagement of clients in the paid channels. In terms of visual design, yes, there's been quite a number of improvements we see kind of look and feel and kind of where it's trending towards. We made improvements to have kind of represent core elements on the site in terms of people look like, just looks like, what projects look like and so on. I won't go through a little detail here, but you can see that if you use the site frequently. We also made improvements to our quotations product, which is the ability for a Freelancer to send an invoice to someone who's collect the payments. There's a lot here to come, but we really fortuned up that channel, and I think that's going to perform very well over the course of this year. We also, by virtue of that, we reduced a lot of spam in regards to what we call hire me spam, where people will click on user profiles and to hire them on the website. The way it works in the past was, look, they're clunky and quite spammy. But with quotations, it behaves more like a modern social media platform now where you can basically ask to connect to someone. And if they connect to you, is the Freelancer, the hiring of themselves by someone quotation than the other way around, which has a few issues with us. So I think there's some normal improvements there. And certainly, the feedback we've got from Freelancers is a much better experience for them and they're much happens reduced a lot of the spends have been receiving from all sorts of active. In terms the enterprise features, we enhanced all the invoicing and how we present it. So it's quite professional now and the enterprise platform integrates into SFP full glass. And there are a couple of other vendor-managed platforms that'll be integrating into over the course of this year. You can see here in terms of our efforts to reduce spammy bids in the platform, we've done pretty well over the course of 2021. There's a lot of automated software that's being used by freelancers and a couple of points, where it's about 30% of the bids coming in the platform came too fast within 15 seconds, which is not really the description and not filling in the probability. We mentioned knock that out quite successfully with actually increasing the order liquidity at the higher time efforts. We also fixed a major conversion problem to make a couple of projects. I think it's a problem that's been affecting the main core marketplaces in 2016, and that is correcting as we merge the co-investing. And that is basically the too much kind of is being asked to fund projects upfront. So we fixed that, and we'll be able to just adapt were a previous quarterly update, but we saw quite good retention on updates -- upgrades on that once we push that out. We've also made some good investments to collaboration, the core underpinning of our collaborative efforts are the group's functionality, you should think of it very similar to like a Facebook Groups sell interface, but it's underpins, things like work rooms where people are working on the project together with their team of Freelancers there, a team of colleagues, and that's live, and that's growing extremely strongly. It's 1 of the fastest-growing things in the platform today. We have community groups. We have official groups, and we have private work rooms on the site where people communicate from everyone, from a small team to a large team. We've got groups in the site that have 6 million people communicating simultaneously at this point in time. So we think that's what they're going to drive engagement. And the key thing about engagement is looking at the average project size will see that in the last quarter, in particular, the average project size is it very strongly at $250 or so, we still think we can add a 0 to the average project size. Because $250 is a relatively small amount of money even for a developer that may be someone like India would freelance with maybe $1,500, $2,000, $2,500 a month. So that's a big lever we can pull, and we'll continue to do over the course of 2023 is this cleverness and I'll talk about it in a second. Now talk a little about the acquisition and the previous quarterlies, we were focused on the paid acquisition. The probability here has improved dramatically. We've spend and increased profitability in this channel in the fourth quarter was up 58% on the low for the year and ended up, up 23% on the previous corresponding period. Looking at nonbrand Google, for example, profitability is up 77% on the low and 43% overall for the year. We'll talk about further later on in the Q&A if you've got any questions about the paid acquisition. And we've got quite a number of good organic hits out there in the media in the last number of months. There's been quite a number of hits that got syndicated quite widely. And this just shows us some hits that we've got in the Wall Street Journal as well. And we've got a market campaign that's underway at the moment around get back to work, which we normally do at the beginning of the year, where people excited about 2023 and what holds in store for basically new venture creation as well as improvement the business they currently run. In 2023, in terms of the product engineering ambition will be fourfold. The first will be taking this U.S. and this designed to the next level really from consistency to delight. And we're really -- I think you're going to see dramatic improvements in the product that's really going to I think amaze users and really drive engagement. We're also going to continue launching collaborative features to drive retention engagement to get the average product size up. And I've said before, I think it gets us up 10x with a bit of effort. And there will also be a heavy personalization to drive conversion in the core marketplace is the core platform. We've got some pretty amazing things in fact, today, we're going to ship something where it's going to really help drive the conversion in the funnel. We have smiling. There's about 4 or 5 things that ready to ship literally right now when I together in an orderly fashion. I think we're going to have a pretty decent view for the core marketplace. I know that's something that's being focused on for the last number of periods. And the other thing is to now focus the acquisition efforts on the organic channels. Now the paid channels we've got under control. We've got that under the new app. The LCV predictor model was really now focusing on the free or effectively organic channels for market and things like search optimization and so on for our in-build in the platform and so on. And so that's going to be a big focus, 2023 is on the organic channels on the paid channels, right? And actually, basically combined, I think will have cumulative effects. Now 1 division that Shaun in FY '22 was the Enterprise division. And there's a lot of eyes to the Fiverr, as I've described many, many times. Of course, Shaun had answered your question, you've got the Q&A. But the GMV in that division was up 101.5% year-on-year. So that's growing quite strongly. So it came for a reasonable percentage of the total GMV. November 2022 was an all-time record in the month, surpassing the August record. And in terms of just some highlights. And there's quite a lot, there's actually too many to actually put here and give everything in justice. But we can finance commercials with the Middle East, a Swiss based pharmaceutical company that was executed. We've got a top commercial -- big 4 professional services firms, not the way that we've executed commercials for, for pilot. We've on-boarded a global transportation leader. This is a multibillion-dollar company, and were using us to basically launch a new service offering. It's a company that everyone has installed on their phone, probably in this call. We've got a number of actually global talent providers that we're integrating with actually more than one, but there's other vendor management systems and so forth that we're going to be using that effect was that as a channel. We also got quite a pipeline of engineering services proposals in with both existing and new customers ranging from the bigs guys work with -- like may be join us as a company and so forth right through to a number of governments as well as a global BPO and National Telco. Now there was one downside in the Enterprise division, which may turn it sort of may turn to positive next week. We've been not quite sure. But we -- there's $1 trillion market capitalization global technology coming into the household name, and we've spent 18 months working on this project. I went through all the on-boarding signed discovered work, went through all the bidding and so forth got greenlight the system and literally last Friday, we got the news that the entire division, we haven't started operating yet in terms of calls that we're providing basically a global support organization. They've got a number of other vendors that they actually have are live and have been live for some time. But the whole thing has been shut down and merged in and restructured as kind of a thing that the CEO has announced. So we've actually got a many line up next week where that -- because we were actually the lowest cost provider of anyone and they're quite impressed by that. They've actually invited us to come back in and let's figure out how we can kind of play a role in the organization broadly. But the whole spend that in those 3 vendors that were already supplying services under that program, including a deal fairly substantial client, one of our main competitors have all been restricted to shut down. So it's a bit of a disappointment. It's a 200,000-person organization globally. But we're hopeful that in the next couple of weeks, we'll get some clarity on how we can plan try and figure out, given the fact that we offer the broadest offering with low price. In terms of markets, that continues to be executed on. In fact, there's an upscaling what's happening right now in terms of the engineering service engagement. That's going to more than double in terms of the opportunity there in terms of engineering services. They've also applied on their end, marketing team. And so really, the focus now is on continuing pushing out some features. But right now, we're really trying to get the volume growing in this platform. And they've been a marketing team. They're just literally higher than now in fact meeting this morning with that team to basically kick off and set some targets. So there's a bunch of things happening there. On the global fleet and the field services engagement we've got, which is with a global computer company. And I would like to mention the name and any month now, there will be an announcement about this. We've got approval to kind of announce who they are and so forth as part of the work. But we've got quite a good integration here now. We've integrated our system directly into theirs through EEG, where that's all now integrated into, I believe, full 10 cities as of yesterday -- sorry, as of next Monday. So I think 2 cities are done, yes. Chennai, Ahmedabad and Delhi are going live on 23 February, tomorrow. And then next Monday, we'll be going live. And then effectively, 10 cities will be live integrated out of 18. And this April sees the launch for the course of the year. Indonesia, we're doing well over 6 cities. We've got contract has been extended. Australia, New Zealand, we've now again resigned the engagement, and that's also extending. We signed a scope pf work from Malaysia in the last quarter, and we've got work orders. They're going live now through as of this month in Malaysia. In terms of rest of world, there are quite a number of conversations going on right now with multiple country heads, and it looks highly likely in the next couple of weeks to be America, the U.S. And so -- and in addition to the brake fixed work we're doing also we're going to get the installation work as well. So there's a lot going on there. We've done a paid engineering services integrated both our systems. I actually have got a proposal going into actually the next level of work on the engineering on visual front are doing extremely well and going from strength to strength. In terms of NASA, as I've mentioned many times before, that contract is upscale from $25 million to $75 million -- $175 million. We won 31 vendors in the program that were effectively the biggest. We're doing some big challenges to them. There's a big 1 coming up. I won't go to detail here. There's 1 coming up, which is a $6 million price person that the gene editing, and that's in U.S. dollars. So overall is that $10.6 million. And we are seeing increased frequency in the last couple of weeks of task orders coming out. We expect to see an increased value of those task orders. It's $175 million program. And in fact, that's the Noise 2. Noise 3 is being talked about now, which we wouldn't expect to be an upscale yet again in terms of the opportunity. So that's going very, very, very strongly on the NASA front. In terms of Escrow.com. Now we had obviously a phenomenal year in 2021 with this business, grew in the high 70% year-on-year in terms of GMV. The first half of last year was extremely strong. It was the second highest half in the history of the company. But in the tech rec and crypto crash that happened in May of 2022, the volume did go down quite significantly. In fact, in the fourth quarter, the volume was down 48% on BCP at AUS 189.5 million or USD 124.5 million about 53% in U.S. dollars, right? Overall for the year, the volumes were down 11.7% to 9.53%. Despite that drop in FY '22, the business was profitable, that division. And in fact, we are seeing a bit of an uptick in the volumes that come through the fourth quarter. And fourth quarter and the third quarter and coming into the new year, we've seen a bit of an uptick again. In fact, February, this February, this month is shaping up to be the best month since July '22, possibly June '22. And we're very confident that this quarter's GPV will be higher in the fourth quarter. But the volume is yet to return to the sort of what I say, highs of 2021 when the tech market was going complete users both in the equity markets and the venture financing and so forth. Basically, the drop is -- over 75% of that drop is attributed to these mega domain name transactions we brought that before, which is this USD 10 million, USD 20 million domain names. With venture capital has pullback funding, startups don't need to have these premium veins, tech companies are cutting costs, et cetera. And the domain on market liquidity drops, the pricing still holds strong, but the volume drops in terms of just silly transactions not happening. Now I will say that we -- in this year already -- last week, we did do a domain name, a mega domain name the $10 million to $20 million range that went through successfully. So we're starting to see some stuff kind of tiptoe back in. And in fact, we have a transaction that's been in negotiation for a couple of weeks that would be the biggest in history for Escrow.com if that goes through. It's still not confirmed, but it is significantly larger than the $10 million to $20 million transaction. That's probably all I'll say. It's a pretty -- it will be a pretty marquee transaction if it goes through, and there's been many, many weeks that have set up and then hopefully, we'll go through surely and that could really signal a big thing. But a lot of the pullback that happens in mega domains were tech start-ups or crypto startups. Well, I don't think you'll see a lot of volume in crypto domains in the next 12 months. I think you will see that replaced and probably by an even bigger frenzy in artificial intelligence domain next. The boom in generative AI is going to be bigger than the boom in crypto by far because I think it's a far bigger have -- the general AI impact for the next 12 months, I think we'll have a Fiverr impact on the world launch of the commercial step back in 94, 95 is what mainstream. We tested in an GMV to come out next on AI. So you can see here in Q4, there was a bit of an uptick from Q3. We had a very strong 2021. We had Q1 of 2022 was pretty good. There's just this huge a drop that everyone saw across tech and so forth in Q3. Q4 was up. Q1 this year will be up again. And I think we're staying this confidence coming into the high-value transaction across, I guess, all industries. So I think will see a bit of an uplift from here. So you can see those drop in the last 2 quarters, but that will turn around this year. In terms of priorities, the priorities for Escrow, the #1 prioritized customer feedback, #2 experience because really tech is quite simple. It's 99% of campaign, 1% accounting. If you know someone is exactly who they actually -- so most of it then to give credit for at the door payment, right? But that indication really key. And obviously, Escrow has a certainly unique in some regards to like a regulatory monopoly simply because it is so hard for other companies to get licensed in the space in large value payments. The problem is that the large value payments are quite high friction because you do have to KYC people quite intensively and you have to understand we go the nature of transaction looks on the documents and so forth. So we really try to make that longest possible best-in-class, and that will reduce the friction for the intend transaction flow. We also want to support more transaction types and more verticals. We're doing custom things in IP addresses in construction and the like solar, kind of installation, which is kind of derivative. And overall, really pride a slick integration in terms of the experience and automate a lot of the internal processes that we have. So in terms of partner activity, we've got kind of a number of things happening. We've got a green line in a number of states, real estate. We've got some construction in solar, where we're going to start there in real estate. A number of the M&A marketplace is actually going pretty well, like your flippers new micro acquirers, which is Escrow.com. Case in point, they've got great domain name to kind of take my prior a better brand and that's why companies are willing to pay a big man these sort of things as they're more memorable. We've got some decent traction in the IP address space. And as I said, we're going to do cost something there. And we've got some things happening in solar and construction. Now moving on to Loadshift. This -- 2022 was a pretty transformational market year for Loadshift. It's now Loadshifts are now merged. There is no longer of Freelancer brand. It is all under Loadshift. Drew Davis is the General Manager, is here in the room to ask him questions after the commentary. And now this year is going to be a pretty amazing year because this is the year where we're just really going to execute on how much of this $1 million a day of GMV that gets -- notional gross low volume that gets posted will be converted into payable platform revenue generated from that and the pace of the full marketplace experience. Now I did put this graph in, although it's not an apples-and-apples comparison. And I kind of put that commentary. But I thought -- when we took the loans off and merged them in from Loadshift and most in the marketplace and equipments and then rebrand the holding Loadshift, there was an slight volume drop in FY '22, the volume was down 11% and the total Columbus was down 16.5%. Now that's a little bit of a misnomer in some ways because on the Loadshift platform, originally as -- the loans automatically got delisted in 3 days. And on the marketplace model, they're up for 30 days. And so there was some bloat in the old platform that were being reposted in various forms for waste which don't get reposted to site. So it's not really a direct comparison of the before and after, but that's why there's a drop in that graph. In the meantime, what's actually happened is that quite a number of the metrics have gone up, the average load value is going up, the doors per comes load-up has gone up, et cetera. So in fact -- so before and after the actual notion of gross loan volume is actually still trending on is up 7.4% on the year, simply because a number of the other metrics are trending up at the same time. There are also a couple of straight forward is that we kicked off the platform that had no intention to paying through the sale of the marketplace model of kind of sustaining as new. They've got a pretty good free ride for a long time while doing that. But we keep a few of them off as well, which also took a bit of volume, but that volume would never have converted. We've done some pretty amazing loads. We've got some pictures and some of it in the presentation, so we'll look kind of what we do. But we moved the big in the way it is that more specialized. But the second half of 2020 GPV was up 63% on the first half. The average look complete a low size of a bit over $5,000. The freight charge is the 349 kilometer to 21.6%. And we're basically doing record after record week after week like in the last -- literally, this week, we had a big tick in carriers quoting -- number of carriers quoting, the number of quotes on the platform, et cetera, all the liquidity. It's really going, it's really humming along right now. And the ops team who were there coming for the year now is just simply just convert as much of that freight to be paid on platform as possible. The old model was basically drivers go to the board to pay the $79 a month membership. And then that was it. They've got some numbers to all of the shippers and the Wild West. Now a few things that happened here. One is that's actually a pretty terrible experience for a shipper because a shipper just gets on bombarded from calls from everyone, and they don't know what's going on. But if there's no reviews, there's no feedback to ratings. There, were scams are going on what people were taking deposits not showing up. There were dodgy operators that weren't licensed properly the dodgy operators didn't have insurance all of Wild West can't exist anymore under regulatory changes around the change of responsibility, you can't have that model but just it's not feasible. Everyone has a responsibility for safety and freight, and you can't pay that operate even and then can't display on your platform. So what we do is we basically get the drivers. This feedback is just in terms of the operational load, ensuring that 1 turns up and it gets delivered and so forth. It helps you to find a quality operator and so on. It's a much better experience for the shippers. It's actually a better experience for carriers as well. We offer invoice financing through a partner button. So the drives get paid on time reliably. We were invoicing. We've got pro forma invoices that can generate automatically on the loads and so on. And the carriers still get to build reduced ratings, and so they stand out in the market like the good guys stands out dramatically from the bad guys to use bad rates. In fact, we've seen jobs and sure probably got some data this is. But we've seen jobs go through where the shipper is paid not just 10%, 20% more over 40% high-quality carrier, but substantially like 50% or even more, right? So it's a better experience all around. And you can see here, this is the daily quite carries. In fact, this week, the numbers actually spiked up even higher. So the liquidity on the supply side is there. It's very, very, very strong. And we really adjusted about this business. At the moment, about 9% of the loads the gain posted here, about 220 loads a day going through right now, and that will grow to about 270 in the next month or 2 as we get through the January, February period, where typically some of the construction projects will be acquired because of the reductions on the light vehicles on the roads. But we're about a 9% load rate. That load rate is biased those low-end loads just happen automatically, et cetera. But you can see regards it's growing very, very stand continue to grow. And the #1 thing to focus on this year is how high can we get this number, right? And it's going to grow multiples of this multiples, right? So it's really just how much of this $350 million rate per annum that we have today, can we convert to a paid model and a commission model, et cetera, and so on, while continuing to deliver new features for the drivers that make the life easy and the some pretty amazing things coming out in the next couple of months to really make super easy for a driver to find jobs, find backloads. We work standard from the competition and get paid realizing quickly in a very professional manner. So there's a lot of happening there. And as you can see, we've got improvements now you can see insurances and certificates and so forth kind of categories. So overall, that's the highlights of the 3 divisions and have enough Q&A, and second simply get your questions ready. In terms of group profitability, while there was an operating loss in last year in 2022, we have as we flagged in many quarters before, been making a lot of cost cuts and improvements. Operating costs in the fourth quarter were 12% lower than the third quarter. The efficiencies will come evident in this year. For example, marketing is down 26% in the fourth quarter. And we do expect a profitable year. Escrow.com was profitable last year. Fourth quarter last year was effectively breakeven. So we continue to focus on growing revenue. And I think core marketplace apprise Escrow and Loadshifts all have some very good upside this year. And there's a lot of lines in the fire for some potentially spectacular returns from a couple of the efforts we're working on. And then we're continuing to just be tied on costs and just really make sure we've got some relationship there. So we're effectively kind of at the breaking point now a little bit of work to go all in day-by-day kind of few things, but we're basically there. So that's it. I'll open it up now to Q&A. And again, you may address your questions to anyone in the room. I've got Neil Katz, who's the Chief Financial Officer. Shaun McMeeken, who's the VP of Sales and Adam Byrnes, who's the VP of products and Drew Davis, who is the General Manager of the Loadshifts division. So Alex, could open up, please, and then maybe read out a question.

I was just wondering like with your report on your update in October, you hear that we're getting knocked around with the crypto crash. And also you read that inflation is the highest it's been in over 40 years. I'm just wondering like how is our business going compared to your competitors like Upwork and Fiverr in this environment? Are we holding up for or do they?

Neil, do you have to agree with Upwork and kind of the financial results last week. And I do like to people could be in the sense of, Neil will say.

Yes. I also had a tough economic environment. And they've had large operating losses, particularly that bad quarter. I mean, the Q3 was terrible. And Q4 stabilized a bit, but they're still not profitable. And so operating in a similar sort of economic environment to them and sort of feeling the same kind of macroeconomic sort of headwinds that competitors are facing.

Yes. The difference is we're not running at a massive loss. I think there's still a bit of the Silicon Valley mindset where you kind of -- you can run very, very, very large losses. We've been pretty top on the cost side, although the first half of last year, we did kind of staff up a bit quicker than we -- because we expected that initiatives like Loadshift or what have you would be doing revenue signify faster than they were. I will say 2022, there a lot of things where we just had to kind of merge things together and get platforms built, get platforms live, whether it was to getting the platform was to take jobs so there was a lot Freelance emerging, whether it was getting the integration done the print computer companies so the jobs could actually be done in an order manufacture between the 2 platforms and actually have been alert, all that sort of stuff and there's plenty more. There was just a lot of work together already. And now it's really just now focused on this operation. The crypto side. I mean, I don't think the crypto market will come back at all. I've ignored, I'm quite negative on it even though as a John Professor in Crypto in Sydney. But I think the general AI boom is going to be gigantic, and it's going to affect everything. It's going to affect every type of job, like white collar job. And I think there will be a boom in, obviously, in the domain market there as well.

So over the long term, we're going to be run these guys, do you think?

Look, here's the thing, right? It's a marathon. We've been going now -- I've been going at this since 2009, effectively. They are formed by the merger of a bunch of companies that went back to 1999. Back in the 2000s, when Freelance and oDesk were private, they raised a couple of hundred million dollars in venture capital, and they're kind of burning it all on paid marketing and so forth. The history of this business is high raised, I think, USD 1.5 million and bought a company and generate a single center financing until we went public and went IPO. We were the first to go IPO. We were the first to get a USD 1 billion market cap. We were first out there, and we have a substantial higher valuation at that point in time. Now you can argue that valuation was too high and the valuation has come down dramatically, obviously, since IPO. But we did overtake them at 1 point after they spend hundreds of million of loss venture capital, and we raised effectively. So if you think about there are 8 billion people on the planet, there's probably what 2 million or 3 billion people now on Facebook. We have the biggest user base of 65 million. I don't know what their current numbers are, but I would guess, 10 million, 20 million, 30 million, whatever the number is. If you add up all the people in all the marketplaces globally, you're probably lucky to get to 100 million out of 2 billion or 3 billion that might be on Facebook, right? So we're still really, really, really early days in the space now. Why is it taking so long? Why it was it takes so long to come if you think about the market, and you look at it, some of the largest companies look by market capitalization, a global marketplace of products. You've got yes, Amazon, Alibabas, we got your SCs and eBays and so forth. Delivery of the service online is significantly more complex than to deliver products. I mean the book is a book, you got Amazon, you know a book is and so forth, you buy a website, and it's a lot -- it's very quite complex, you like have a tech guy at the marketing dialogues is the other efforts, it's difficult to deliver a service competitor building our products. But also the whole industry is delayed substantially for products because -- it wasn't until the late 2000s what emerging markets came online to the Internet. So it's only really about 15 years that you've got places like Philippines they are just using the Internet. And then people have to go online, learn about software, learn about police trades. And then the effectively, the Internet and the human computer interaction. Bandwidth had to get with nothing to actually work efficiently and effectively over the Internet. So it's really in the last 10 years that this starts to come to fruition that people have started to realize however with someone online and the software is there and the tools are there and sophistication is there. But it's very, very early days to the space. So I think, certainly, we've got the ability to catch up and to overtake. I think their market cap, Apple's market cap is USD 1.5 billion, right? So I think we certainly have the ability to kind of overtake that. I think the ability that we've got a lot of parts to this business. We're a lot more complex than our business is even in the core platform of Freelance just excluding Escrow and excluding Loadshifts. On the Freelancer platform, we're far more complex. They don't do contests, they don't do international, they don't do international payments, but they do languages, they're only in U.S. dollars, they're only in English, they're only in projects. And they've also kicked off all the low-paid workers because they want to focus on effectively high end. They can't do what we do with our enterprise edition, I don't see anyone up work or you can do gene editing. I don't see anywhere that you can even get a laptop repaired. I don't -- they don't have an offering like we do for the delinquent marquees, right? So we actually do a lot more things. Now we've arguably, we do too many things, and we probably under-resourced them all. That's why it takes a long time. But we are -- I think we've got the ability to kind of -- some of these things to really start firing. And I think we've got substantial opportunities to overtake and certainly quickly on the profitability, right? But yes. Next question.

There's a question in the chat.

Yes. The question is with such a severe drop in share price this year and such a large loss in market capitalization was the company strategic going to get those losses. What specific steps is the company planning to take? Yes, I agree. There's been -- the share price baffles me where it is. I personally think it's a gift on waiting till 4:00 when I'm out of the blackout period also. But look, there's a lot of companies that have been beating around the head. That's a lesson we learn in the market. But I think the thing is -- I mean, there's always things you can do in terms of capital markets activities and so forth. But I think the #1 thing is just getting the revenue line printing results, getting the revenue line moving and demonstrating our track record of financial performance. I think ultimately, what you need to do in the market is just get the revenue line moving at a rate where investors start to look at it and go, okay, this is really that. I mean, there's a lot of value in this business, right? You think about it, you got 3 businesses here in that share price and that market cap. They're all strategic. You've got the largest marketplace in the world by number of years and projects in terms of online work. You've got effectively a bit of words sort of regulatory monopoly in terms of large value payments albeit, it's a very small business, the scheme of things in terms of global payment space. But if you think about payments, retail, e-commerce as a percentage of retail unless they figure out -- unless the world figures out on to buy things online that value, and that's what we do with Escrow. And then we've got Australia's biggest transport marketplace in terms of freight, right? So there's more freight or given day in the earth and the moon midweek. So these businesses are all phenomenal business on their own right, and that goes into the share price. I mean so it really is execution, right? Number one, it's execution on the fragmented core marketplace. And I am really confident now we've kind of got that in a great place this year is going to be, Adam is here. I'm going to add him in a second, you might add some color to that, but I'm pretty damn-excited about the core marketplace finally. I think we've got 3 of the issues. I think we've got the core structure fixed. I think we've got core infrastructure in place. I think it's really good stuff to happen in a decent way. All the things happening, enterprise amazing that the GMV, I mean, it really is. I mean, Shaun comes in every quarter, the GMV layout right each quarter-on-quarter, right? It's an discretion the surface with some of the opportunities like literally scratch the surface. One enterprise in the Fortune 500 probably has a labor bill in the $10 billion or so plus, right? And convert just 5% of that to the cloud and a huge opportunity in terms of GMV. Yes, there'll be 1 customer that will come along at an enterprise will do more than the GMV of the entire company, just that 1 customer. And then in the Escrow division, we've got be a little bit in the second half, but that will come back. I'm very confident that will come back. And as I said, we did a mega transaction. We've got a very, very, very large transaction that it's not a strategy, we'll see. And then Loadshift, that -- this business, the business is there. We don't do sales. There's $1 million a day of notional core loan volume being posted. It's just converting that, right? And you can see we're doing that. The word rates flying it's just converting that, right? So -- and just focusing what we're doing with the operations side of things. So the answer to your question, the big thing we're going to do is we're going to show the actual performance, right? That's the #1 thing. So thanks. Next question?

Just 1 more question on the Loadshift business. So currently, the model is that they can just go on to a website and get a phone number. And you're going to sort of change that. I think I did explain to me that it's going to be more like an old model, where you're sort of you're clicking, you get the job paid and all that. But I'm just wondering like, is there a bit of a concern that now that these guys have got each other's numbers that they won't -- they'll just sidestep that model and won't use our platform to pay the commission?

Good question. So the old model, which doesn't exist anymore, it stopped existing in August of last year, was $79 a month. And you can see all the phone numbers of everyone who's -- all the shades that you get, wouldn't you find. As of August, that's stopped. If you do pay your membership, we do allow you to see some phone numbers under an acceptable use policy. So you can't sit there and look at 100 phone numbers on quote. You've got to quote on the site. And so we're putting a little bit off-siding activity onto the cycle. Now yes, there's some legacy phone numbers that people can store in their phones, but things change. And the other thing is shippers don't want to be bombarded by 50 people calling them in 2, 3 minutes. They don't want that. They don't want to have a bunch of people or the same that they don't know teaching them all sort of things because. They want an orderly, managed way of moving their freight. And over time, phone numbers changed. It just happens that happens. There's -- obviously, every day new shippers and so on. But yes, we'll eventually find a way where you can do what you're calling, and we won't be finished and or make so there's an incentive to go to the platform because the carriers will want to be paid on time. I mean a lot of these large enterprises look like a Newcrest about 1 year, which we do hundreds of lows for a year. They want to pay 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, right? The driver doesn't want that. They want to be paid on time upfront, right? Newcrest doesn't mind if there's a financing charge comes through, right? So there's a little bit on platform even though there's a fee. I don't know, Drew, maybe you want to add some color to that?

Yes, sure. So also on top of that, carriers starting to learn the importance of being rated on our platform. So taking jobs off site is 1 thing. But in doing it on site, they'll get their rating with a new press or report long year and opens the up to a lot more work. And also being able to charge a reasonable fee as we've discussed, some jobs at some carriers are getting 50% more than others just for having a really good rating on systems. So I think as we educate more carriers that are coming on to the platform of the importance of building up a portfolio on Loadshift, the need to have jobs go through the system will be greater.

Yes. There's a lot of carriers that are frustrated with the old model because nobody stands out from anyone, right? Literally, the load goes up. There's a bunch of phone calls that come in all of a sudden. The shipper doesn't know who's who. I don't know why would I pay more for this person versus that person. Maybe few people would gift of the gap and kind of you talk about the phone and commit them to at the other. But with the platform you are range from us as insurance specific can stick to our operators who know who the carriers are and kind of have we have a big math of the world where we know what the drivers are and this at the other end. At the end of the day, the cost of freight in some of these businesses is miniscule compared to the -- to problems caused by the freight arriving reliably on time, right? If you run a mine that's in production, you want that to be up 100% of time, 99-point whatever percent of the time, we are operating right. If you need to ship a part or a grinder or something and develop the construction or the intent operations, maybe a part breaks, you need to get that shipped out away at the cost of getting it there is irrelevant compared to the operating losses from the mining stocks, right? So that's why Newcrest does not want the cheapest carrier. They want the reliable highest quality carrier to get there in metro they're on time and in godown. And we've also actually which has been interesting over the last few months started to see carriers and logistics companies bringing their own business to the Loadshift platform that they've already locked in outside the old hasn't been posted on the system and then they've come in and posted on our platform to make use of the rating system and to make use of the secure payment gateway. So it's been a really interesting shift that once carriers have come on the system, they've seen how they can fit in with the rest of their business model. So as that continues to happen, the risk of siting diminution. Also, the carriers realize now that because the marketplace model is failing new, if you get your reviews now, you'll be to the back in terms of the organic listings on the site. So when you bid on a job, you'll get at the top as you reduce the carrier like calls get our reviews now. So I'm very excited about that actually. And the bottleneck of the model this everyone knows -- the stack is exactly the Freelancer enterprise stack. So the same stack that we built Deloitte markets for is the same stack as Loadshift. We've got rid of the separate code base. It goes to all the pictures that come into Freelancer in the core marketplace and all the pictures we built for our enterprise customers get them made available for free with low chips. So effectively, the technology costs of that business are minimal. It's just the customization of freight, right? But all the audio calling and GPS tracking and all that stuff, invoicing and integration into SFP and all that sort of stuff that we have in Freelancer. That's all free now for them. So that's pretty amazing.

Yes, I've got a question here for me from about the Auckland. With the enterprise with the current economic environment and cost cutting across a number of companies is just helping the sales pipeline and the faster adoption by existing enterprise customers. So yes, Doug, the short answer is yes. Q4 was clearly the strongest sales pipeline that we had. Yes, every single week, there were big companies in the news were announcing significant job losses, particularly in the tech space. That's our bread and butter in terms of digital work, development work, software engineering work, et cetera. And we're able to facilitate that because our team is in a very strong position. We actually have a very experienced team on the enterprise side. We have highly skilled people running our massive program, highly skilled people who are running our Deloitte program, highly skilled people running the field services program. And on top of that, so these companies are announcing their job losses. They're going through the process of working out where those job losses are going to be. And once the decisions have been made, the focus is then on cost cutting. So we are building more inquiries in Q4 and Q1 than we had in previous quarters. As Matt mentioned, there is a significant number of proposals that are in progress. In terms of our existing customers, 1 of our major customers being 1 of the world's largest software vendors in the crowded space and 30,000 employees around the world. Since January 1, they've increased their forward bookings to USD 373,000, which included a $250,000 purchase order received last week. And that use case is pretty cool, right? It's a certification instant. They're using Freelancers to build our exams online, building up a bank effectively of exam questions. And that's a signal that, yes, in the news, there may be all of these companies that are experiencing some tough times, but it's actually fast tracking their discussions around contingent labor and how they're actually going to employ a Deloitte style model, if you like. And just last week, we had another inquiry of it. Actually Deloitte did a demo of MyGigs to 1 of their health clients and the health client sector, we have something like that. So certainly, we're very confident that the signals that we're seeing are positive and trending in the right directory, a little bit similar to the Escrow side where we're seeing domain sales, the number of domain sales already in the first 6 weeks of the year, but also a pipeline of domains coming through. And when the tide does turn and Matt talked about it, it will turn, both on enterprise and escrow with maybe a shift from crypto to AI. But we have a strong team that's ready to take advantage of when that time does turn. So we're very confident. We've just won some contracts against our competitive set, the Fiverr stake. Just on Friday, we had a -- we've just gone through basically a 4-month competitive pitch directly against scope and directly against deal and we won that competitive pitch. And that's another -- that's actually around -- up to $200,000 a month in GMV through the enterprise side. It's about 70 contractors essentially building a major company around the world has essentially built out their marketing division through Freelancers. And so they want to shift 70 of those Freelancers Upwork into Freelancers in the next 3 months. So again, that's just another example of that, regardless of what we see in the news, in reality in the cold phase, we're seeing a lot of positive signals in our sales pipeline coming through.

Yes. And our model is basically, we don't -- we don't charge big upfront fees or monthly fees unless there's some sort of integration that they want to do, and there's an engineering services on/off. But it's on demand, right? So you don't need the lab, you don't pay for it, right? So -- and from the Enterprise side, we make most of our revenue off the fee, the Freelancer base. So it's very, very, really expensive on the Enterprise side to adopt, right? There's something, so 3% fee unless they're using in source, which cases a per-seat licensing fee for any internal work or unless there's some engineering services. So it's very expensive. So I think it's a good multiple times. Next question?

I've got a couple. The first is just can you put some numbers around the potential Deloitte contract, the external kind of placement and say it's a 3-year run rate. What kind of magnitude of revenue could that generate for Freelancer?

Okay. Well, we actually have a 3-year forecast that was provided by Deloitte to us. And we've also had them in end of last year to try and set those targets in stone. Incidentally, it's funny you bring up Shaun actually even last night to look like to try and get those numbers peak. So we have -- I can't of -- I don't know if I mention the numbers are right.

But well, their could be a comment to us was that they basically have enough projects already that the equivalent of the Freelancer business in itself, right. And the question now is, in the last 6 months, they've doubled the number of internal projects within the firm. And their focus now with leadership is increasing adoption across the, what is it, 35,000 users that have been on board, and that's going to quickly go to 50,000. Once they get that activation clear and all the marketing within the firm that really sells the use of MyGigs, the expectation is that the external -- the projects will start flying from internal to external. At the moment, there's -- there are thousands of unique users visiting the platform every month. But whilst we're making the final kind of product enhancements over the next couple of months, the shift hasn't moved yet to external. However, nonetheless, it is becoming -- the goal is that margin becomes a daily habit to really transform the workforce in their business in the U.S. as far as consulting goes. And they can see that evident in the -- as I said, the number of internal projects has more than doubled. So we're just -- the next phase of that now is just working on that activation piece and really making sure that any further product enhancements, for example, when they adopt the group's functionality, which is about to happen when they adopt SMI functionality that we'll really start to say, well, this year, we'll see the ramp-up in external projects.

Now we do publish the average project size. The average project size at the moment is around USD 14 69. And we do -- I mean, if you run the numbers on, say, 50 projects a day, you'll kind of see what the GMV kind of looks like over the course of the year, just on 50 projects out of 35,000, right? It is something.

That's about $27 million GMV. Is that right?

Yes, about that, yes. So...

So revenue for Freelancer...

Sorry, revenue to us will be 10% on that unless it goes to preferred Freelancer, which will be 15%.

Right now, Greg, so at the moment, like we might be doing, let's say, 50 projects a month. When we met with them, we put forward 50 projects a day. And their response was, why are we doing 500 projects at a time? So we just got to nail down those numbers. As I said that the beauty is that these projects are already in that ecosystem. So we don't have the kind of sell in new to them. We just have to -- we have to give them the confidence that they ship those projects from internal Deloitte employees or along and make that step change and push them out to the external cloud throughout.

Well, Freelancers, which we're building a select talent pool for those projects as well. I guess and say, I mean, they gave us a forecast that this is about a year ago. The forecast is not a fixed forecast. It's just a really rough estimation, right? And we obviously need to I want to catch this. This is not -- there's nothing firm about this, and there's nothing. It's just their just estimate that they provided us to try and have a discussion around adoption, right? And I turn to that very, very rough estimation into some sort of firm target that we can galvanize the marketing team that towards brought on to really start growing adoption because they're all focused up until now it's been really internal and have done quite all the growth for internal. But what we're trying to do now is we're really trying to get the external happening. And just want to get some numbers locked in that we can communicate to their team so that everyone kind of knows what need to break it out. So the number that's in their pitch deck that they came up is year 1, year 2, year 3, the year 3 number is $34 million in GMV, right? So -- but again, that's just a very rough forecast that was pre-going live pre-everything right? It was based on the assumption of $2,000 of projects is their assumption, right? So what we need to do is we need to basically get some targets locked down. There's literally call that's probably already happened with market this morning where the is coming on the date side at the other and so on that we've got to just really start getting. Now that's -- again, you remember, that's also just U.S. consulting. So Deloitte's a large organization, and there are many branches around the world. And outside of consulting, you've got tax audits and all these other divisions, which complete several consulting. And we have in the U.K., Australia, Switzerland and New Jersey, you've got various levels of engagement discussions, what have you. Some station will be a later stage with about coming on to the market but as well. Yes, it's one of those things where it's -- we've got to again heads down and see what we can do and work with our team to drive the marketing as much as Canada. There's quite a number of market actions on the way right now.

Okay. And then kind of following up from there. You kind of mentioned we've got other departments and tech and so on. But you also mentioned earlier that got a customer in the health care space that is also interesting. So the tech stack already built, the model is built. So incremental GMV coming through incremental revenue I assume the only incremental cost for you guys is the cost of the chaperones and the cost of actually?

They're paying for some engineering services, and features we haven't turned on yet. So ally projects not live yet, contest are not live yet. Yes, things like groups are not live, et cetera. They are all things come in the short-term engineering plan to turn on. So that's being paid for with engineering services. So that's -- so there are some features that will turn on that will increase the ability for the platform to generate projects and GMV that's kind of that's well underway, and that's upscaling. It should be doubling in terms of the revenue line there in the next couple of weeks. But yes, the platform right now can take projects is successfully completing projects. I mean some examples in the PowerPoint of kind of what's being done. But there's quite a number of different use cases. The platform is being useful. But yes, as of today -- like literally today, there could be something going out from the CEO saying, okay, everyone, I want you to do 1 project and kind of report back what you've done.

Yes. I was more trying to get at what the incremental revenue would convert to the bottom line? What's the additional cost of goods sold in operational costs?

Yes. All engineering, we do in the platform was paid for and we make a marginal net right. So that's all being paid for. There's a per seat licensing we get for the internal, and then we get the percentage on the Freelancer side. And on the Enterprise side, there's a 3% to 0% sliding scale based upon what GMV they delivered. So the current 3% on the Enterprise side. It's currently 3 plus 10 or 3 plus 15. But then over time, as the volume goes on that 3 will go to 0.

All right. Maybe I'll put it this way. If PwC came along and said, well, let's say, essential came along and said we want the same.

Yes.

And they're going to provide an additional $100 revenue for Freelancer. What is your -- what's that operation say at the EBIT level? What's the cash conversion, taking into account that you've got obviously, more hosting fees and so on? But the key incremental cost for you is probably the chaperone cost to actually make sure that the customer gets the right Freelancers. Is that right? So are you talking kind of...

There's a couple of engagements happening around that. There is a bit of customization that would have to be done if they want exactly the same thing. And so the customer at have to be looked and feel, obviously, just needed the logo with the colors to be updated, which is very simple. There would be integration into whatever the ERT system is. It might be SAP full glass or it might be slightly different. You would need to integrate with their single sign-on. So just they're comfortable work in the morning and they kind of type their pass within, and it's integrated and their directory so that it would synchronize the profile photos and their bios and stuff just synchronized in the same place, right? So there is a little bit of customization work that we paid for in order to do that, to get that experience, and I have a brand-of-brand experience that would all be profitable for us because we get, our engineers get paid to do that. But in terms of the actual, the service delivery. Once its stats up and live and running, there is virtually no incremental costs that we have better talent pools already, and all the enterprise customers want their talent work for other customers. So that's not a working place fiction issue because of the Freelancers working for multiple enterprises, there's no risk. The risk goes down in terms of that employee being that client so that Freelancer being discussed an employee. But yes, in terms of incremental cost, it's just there's recruiters handling projects, recruiters are profitable in themselves, hosting costs are de minimis, yes. So basically, through this -- not similar from harbor consumer market, yes. So just not similar some more projects to the consumer marketplace, it's the same sort of thing.

Yes. Okay. All right. And then just last question around Loadshift. You kind of talked about this great momentum. But can you put some kind of revenue dollar value, what the incremental increase you would expect from '23?

Yes, I expect some price to that question. We will break out the numbers when they get significant this way. So there's about a 9% award rate right now. But the question is, what percentage can that award rate get to in terms of the theoretical maximum or the practical maximum. I personally think at some point, and I don't know it's 2023. But I think at some point, that number is going to be north of 60% in terms of the job gets posted and 60% will get funded and awarded through the site, it might be higher than that, but I think we should go to get to about that level. We -- that number I get to because with the experience of the France marketplace and the experience of buying competitors and looking at the financials for 200 or so businesses are similar. I cannot know what the fill rates are like on Freelancer marketplaces. And Freelancer marketplaces are the word rates and the completion rates are lower, simply because someone might way up to the morning you go. I want to be an entrepreneur. I'm going to do a startup. I'm going to make it a -- that's going to be prepare. They get excited, they go to the website they start the post in logo done and they got together don't know really how to sell a program to make an app, and I'll give us a lot of work and it goes by the wayside. While on the other hand, if you've got a CAT D12 pull those up, you don't post a job on Loadshift saying remember from counsel to count fully unless you've actually got a CAT D12 or you're looking at buying a CAT D12. Some people like looking at purchasing equipment in an auction or whatever, and they want to get a price quote, right? Outside of that, you don't have a notion maybe 1 day audience construction opposed to job to move all those or it doesn't happen. So I think at some point, I'm not saying 2023, but I think at some point that award rate will be about 60% of award. The award to funded rate is between 90%, 95%. So the jobs that get awarded, they pretty much will be funded. There's sometimes a little bit a thing where some of gets canceled or have you or delay, but it's about that. And then you've got the dollar per kilometer in terms of what we're seeing at the moment. That number is steadily going up with fuel costs and inflation and what have you. So $350 million of volume at 50% is $210 million and then ultimately at 13%. At the moment, it's not there. At the moment, the model is the clients pay 3%. The shippers pay 3%. And right now, as of today, like right now today, if you're not on a legacy Loadshift membership that you got prior to the merger, so we're honoring the people that the legacy memberships that said that they're currently a 0 with you. If you -- right now, if you pay for a membership as of today, it's 5%. So you're either paying 3 plus 0, 3 plus 5 or if you're not a membership, you're paying 3 plus 10. And it's an Enterprise job that goes through by from a Newcrest board because it comes from the sales team, they are at 10. So as of today, there's a small number of drivers to run 3 plus 0. There's a certain number of new drivers today on the membership of 3 plus 5 and it's not the membership paying 3 plus 10. And if it's an Enterprise job doesn't matter why you're paying 10, right? So that gives you a feeling for what the commissions are like. But ultimately, if you've got 350, as it ties by 26, ties about 21 3 , that's $30 million in revenue. I'm not saying we'll get to do that this year at all. But I'm just saying if we were running at 60% award rate, you'd probably have $25 million or so our revenue this year as realistic revenue, not like a TAM. The TAM is closer to the $50 million, right? But -- and of course, those numbers are rising. So the question just is how quickly can we get that award rate of this. There is a graph here where we show where we've got it to so far. Although I will say this graph right now, it's biased on low-end jobs. So jobs are going for $500 like member car. They then get awarded didn't happen without anything being done, which is great, which is exactly with that Freelancer works. No one touches it can go straight through. So that 9% is not 9% of 350. That's highest below sites. So -- but as that goes up, the average job going through that will go up as well. So I don't want to kind of forecast for this year because I tried that last year, and I kind of get myself but we are in now where it's really just heads down and getting that number up as much as we can. And that was double job. We already get some days this week, we're at 10%. So it's strongly rising. And while we'll get to continue to rise, it's just or things in the funnel a bit more education with drivers just to put it through people getting some reviews and feedback and seeing the benefits. The liquidity on the carrier quoting will have is ground in the numbers it spiked up again this week in terms of quoting and through the site and so on. So it's just really of consumer behavior as changes, a little bit of product stuff and building on that. I mean the guys -- the average load is about $5,000. And if a not person can do 5 a day, that's $25,000 of GMV a day just from -- sorry, 6 days. So that's $30,000 a day of GMV just from 1 person. And we already have one-off stage and this reliably doing that. And so the other teams are growing strongly. I mean a new of agent can do. We've seen now last month in New York agent did $100,000 of GMV in the first month, and we've got a new guy this month that will take you to it, 100 or executes first one. So the ops team figuring it out as a matter of product ops and what have you to get that number moving, but there's substantial uplift here and to look at the question from Deloitte what are the incremental costs that happened here for each unit of revenue or GMV that's coming on the Loadshift. The tech stack is basically 90% free, right? I mean how many people are in the total engineering team for Loadshift stands team.

And I'll have to check. But I believe it's something on the order of 5.

We've got 5 people in technology in this business driving that revenue line. And then we've got a 5 ops, and we bought the general matter, if you clear all the people in fintech technology. I mean the number if we could put through, yes, double triple number of jobs, and we wouldn't be changed the number of engineers. You maybe have a few more office people, but that's enough people to profit. So one reason I'm so excited about this business is just that the demonstration, you take all the Freelancers, you just split it off in 1 niche, you find a source of jobs for that particular nation, it's the cost at very, very, very low to run the business, very, very, very low. Any other questions? Anything coming from the chat, Alex? No? Okay.

Can I just ask a question? But Matt, can you just elaborate on your confidence in the main market? Because it's been a drag for a while.

Yes. No, no trust me. This is -- I think that's. Thanks, Doug, for your question. Yes, this has been the thing that's been my bug there because this business prior to 2016 used to touch it, and it was growing 50% per year revenue year-on-year for years, right? And then 2016 onwards, it just kind of started to flatten a little bit. Now there's a lot of things that are going on that's high some of the revenue was a bit soft it tightened up, we unsubscribed about 20% of revenue from clients subscribing the memberships that we're not going to give you a date from them. There are a lot of things that were happening because you understand I only raised the $1.5 million to go public. And that's the bit business. I never had an incentive operating capital. So it was probably the leanest business. You can possibly costly find go public. So from 2013 to '16 we were public, there were just a bunch -- revenue is rising. There a number of things we had to do to have a platform where we could have millions of users and really in everything else. So in 2016, '17, '18, there was a fair bit of accounting software revenue, fixing stuff up to a lot of the products frankly errors that we made with -- in terms of quality and so forth, this whole move fast and break things methodology came through from Facebook was -- we adopted that, that was terrible, right. You want to move slowly and carefully because it's the tortoise that wins the race, not the hare, right? If you know you can reliably have a pipeline, I think shipping in production and not hitting break, that pipeline effects like you do have a computer architecture, you speed from I can see from just being super fast the chips in it some going to go break and then go up if you're the was it, right? That's where you lose your performance. So it has been above their line that there has been and certainly with the best of the share price of that, we call it, right? But there's been a lot of great things happening in the background. And we have done, and I know investors are quite frustrated from many quarters we were saying, oh, what gets on the front-end constructure fixing the whatever I know Greg, you had a comment like I see 1 more time, extremely thing. But maybe, Adam, you can give some commentary on why we think we are in a pretty good place now.

Yes. I mean I just want to reiterate that idea of getting away from new master brain breaking and really a big focus on product quality moving forward. There's a famous Navy Seal saying, which is a slow is smooth and smooth is fast, and I think we want that the hard way back in 2018, and so on, but there really is a big focus now on product quality. And it's coming through in our 2023 product mission. The first and the #1 on taking our UX and design to the next level from a consistent to delay. And really, last year, we had a big focus on the relist getting a platform consistent. Before then, the platform, yes, it was pretty while they're inconsistent. We just come out of a migration. And there's still quite a bit of sort of cleanup work from a design and your perspective. I think we're there now...

The reason why it's relevant is it just slows everyone down. If an engineer is working on designing a new fleet chart and then they can't just drag the designer in. Like said we should drag -- and they don't rather going to make a new right and then you have inconsistency in which we could use, and they got testing problems and then always overhead comes in because, you've just got all these different ways of doing things and then to make things worse, we have over 4 different platforms. So iOS, Android, mobile web and desktop and the 4 different code bases and inconsistency across all even on different pages of the same platform with the same thing, right? So we just got all that unified the code base is how we build a design system. So you drag that we own. It's the same everywhere. It works everywhere. And that's given the productivity improvements to the team, but as well as made it easier to get things out in terms of testability and quality and so.

It's just improved the client experience as well. I mean it really has improved the design in the U.S. and the website, and that does lead to conversion increase. And separately, it's been a big focus as well last year, and it's very much coming through for fruition this year on collaboration. And that also have a direct impact on retention and engagement and our intention engagement do have direction back on revenue. And you can see some of those in the group's numbers, which we've shown in the presentation. Those are growing very, very quickly, and that basically falls to the backbone of our collaborative sort of suite. So we're building out with the goal of increasing retention on client, and they want to make ceased retention, that naturally leads to the revenue. So yes, I mean, I think the other major point, I guess, that we're really focused on is personalization. Again, is really all around retention and engagement. And there's -- it's not coming out there very soon. I unfortunately can't quite talk about it yet. But...

Yes, we've got -- have mine a little bit this 5 or 6 things, which literally are ready to go live as we speak. And we just will make sure that we've got a very robust AB testing framework now that actually verifies enrollment before we push things into an AB test, so you don't have -- gives you a very high reliability of the results when you actually do get something out. And we just, particularly kind of roughing that out literally now. Something's going to something else in the next few days yes, over the next few weeks, but there's a lot of personalization coming. I don't want to give away the secret sauce yet, but I think that's going to have a big list on the metrics, big list on the metrics.

Yes. I absolutely agree.

Any other questions right now? Okay then. As always, we're welcome to have a one-on-one with myself or the team. Please call at an investor financial call or mining address back at Freelancer.com. We're available to or talk you through answer the question you've got in a more private setting. Thanks for tuning in today. And otherwise, we'll see you next quarter results. Thank you.