Frog Cellsat Limited (FROG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the business update conference call hosted by Frog Innovations Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. Before we begin, I'd like to point out that this conference call may contain certain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements do not guarantee the future performance of the company, and it may involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. The company is today represented by Mr. Konark Trivedi, Managing Director; Mr. Umesh Singh, Deputy Chief Executive Officer; and Mr. Charan Jeet Kalra, Chief Financial Officer of the company. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Konark Trivedi for his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us on today's business update call. I am pleased to share a comprehensive update on the strategic progress that Frog Innovations Limited has made over the recent period. To begin, I would like to address our recent name change. As communicated earlier, the transition from Frog Cellsat Limited to Frog Innovations Limited marks an important milestone in our evolution. While Frog Cellsat remains our dedicated brand for wireless coverage solutions, the broader corporate identity in the form of Frog Innovations Limited now more accurately reflects our expanding presence across multiple technology domains. Today Frog Innovations is actively building scale in CCTV and intelligence surveillance, AI-based radio analytics, the electronics manufacturing services, connected devices such as ONTs, SFPs, PoE switches and routers as well as national mobility and connectivity service solutions. This repositioning aligns the company with several fast-growing sectors of the digital and technology ecosystem, enabling us to participate meaningfully in long-term structural growth opportunities. A significant development during this period has been our appointment by TRAI as a Digital Connectivity Rating Agency or DCRA. Under the DCRA framework, Frog Innovations will assess and rate buildings on digital connectivity readiness, creating a new scalable revenue vertical while strengthening engagement with real estate and enterprise customers. This initiative leveraged our core strength in RF engineering and indoor mobility, reinforcing our position as a trusted partner in India's rapidly digitizing real estate ecosystem. Another key initiative nearing launch is Get Five Bars, a pan-India service designed to address indoor mobile signal challenges across homes, offices, retail, hospitality and small commercial spaces. Pilot deployments have received encouraging customer feedback, validating the strong market need for this standardized and scalable service-led solution to an otherwise underserved indoor mobility problem in India. We have also expanded our service portfolio with the introduction of end-to-end 5G site implementation service to mobile network operators. Under this, our offerings cover the entire life cycle from site planning and engineering to installation and commissioning, RF optimization, direct testing, acceptance and full network integration. This expansion not only diversifies our revenue mix, but also deepens our long-standing relationships with telecom operators as India continues its 5G rollout. On the surveillance front, our FROG EYES CCTV camera portfolio continues to progress through the STQC certification process. We expect certification approvals within financial year '26 with commercial rollout is planned for early financial year '27. In parallel, we are accelerating the development of AI EYE, our advanced AI-based video analytics platform scheduled for launch in the upcoming quarter. AI EYE is designed to operate with any brand of CCTV camera, enabling both retrofit and greenfield deployments. The platform will deliver intelligent real-time alerts for use cases such as fire and smoke detection, perimeter intrusion, parking management, employee attendance, crowd management, unauthorized access alerts and other custom-defined events. We believe AI EYE will significantly enhance the value proposition of surveillance infrastructure by converting passive video feeds into actionable intelligence. Further, in line with the company's continuous commitment to innovate, we are focusing on expanding our presence in the growing defense market aiming to provide solutions that address the telecom infrastructure needs within this sector. We have successfully deployed products that enhance mobile connectivity in remote locations, receiving positive feedback from the end market. We are optimistic about securing phase-wise orders for these products. Additionally, the company is deploying mitigation filters designed to protect network connectivity in highly sensitive border areas for the defense sector. This product is currently undergoing trial, and we are hopeful for favorable results in the upcoming quarters. We have also ventured into electronics manufacturing service division wherein we are engaged in the manufacturing of smart meters, induction heaters, PoE switches and other telecom and non-telecom electronic products. To conclude, Frog Innovations Limited is evolving into a multidisciplinary technology solutions company with a strong and synergistic presence across wireless communications, intelligence surveillance, AI analytics, connected devices, digital infrastructure assessment, 5G and mobility services and advanced electronic manufacturing, placing the company in a strong position to drive sustained high-quality growth through multiple emerging revenue streams and disciplined execution. We remain focused on developing new solutions and products, which will ensure our financial year '28 vision is successfully achieved. Thank you for your continued trust and support. We will now be happy to take your questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Ankit Gupta from Bamboo Capital.

Sir, on the DAS side, it seems that there has been a significant slowdown as you have mentioned in the presentation also. So what is the current status of the same? And how do you see this segment panning out for -- because last year, a large -- the entire growth of the company came from this segment. So how are we looking at this segment for this financial year?

Thanks, Ankit. Ankit, DAS, though the deals are there, the opportunities are still there, but there has been delays or significant delays in conclusion of those deals due to several parameters. So the market is still there. The market is still there, it's just that the deals are taking a bit longer time to get concluded.

Okay. Okay. So you expect like in the current H1, how much was the contribution from DAS?

In H1, there was hardly any. It was insignificant contribution from DAS, yes.

Okay. Okay. And we expect anything to come in terms of revenue for this -- in this financial year in the second half?

Yes, it is possible. We are looking forward to closure of a few deals. And we are hopeful that yes, something should be coming in.

Okay. Sir, last year, Q3 was a very big quarter for us, and second half was almost INR 130 crores, INR 140 crores kind of revenue that we had recorded in the second half. So given how things are currently, how are we looking at second half and for the full financial year, how are things looking at?

Look, as apparent from our first half, the market is a bit slow this year. So overall DAS business was not there in first half, or significant DAS business was not there in first half. Operator business will also slow because of the CapEx spending slowdown. So we see some bit better results in H2 because we are expecting some closure of DAS system in this half, yes.

Okay. So this year, we should see substantial revenue degrowth on a Y-o-Y basis. Let's say, last year, we ended around INR 220 crores kind of revenue. So this year, we should be looking at somewhere around INR 110 crores, INR 120 crores. Is that the right assumption?

There will be definitely a revenue degrowth this year, this financial year, that much I can tell.

Okay. Will it be like almost -- like what are the target...

It is difficult to put a number currently because we are -- as I said, we are waiting for some deals to get closure. So it will depend on lot of dynamics there.

Sure. And on the on the STQC certification for the -- for our CCTV cameras, so where are we in that? And how are we looking to grow the sales of this business once we get the STQC certification?

Right. So look, STQC process is a long process. So we are in that process. There has been some remarks on that. So to change or upgrade the things. So that we have been doing and now it is almost complete. So we are going back with those developments now. So yes, we expect that in the next quarter, we should have those approvals in place. But as I mentioned, we are not going to wait for STQC approval only to be in the CCTV market. We have already developed AI analytics tools. Using which not just the new cameras but even the existing cameras can be made as smart cameras and you can get a lot of intelligence from those cameras. So that's what we are going to start with launching that solution early next quarter. Rather in an IFSEC exhibition, which is currently taking place in Delhi, we have already launched that solution.

Okay. Okay. Then for next year, how do you see the growth panning out? Like which all segments will drive the growth for us next year?

Look, we are -- as I mentioned, there are several areas that we are working on, including ONT business, including EMS business, including CCTV, including this Get Five Bars initiative, which we have come out with. So there are multiple new streams which we have started.

The next question comes from the line of Gunit Singh from Counter Cyclical PMS.

So we were -- I mean, our outlook for this year was to have a healthy growth in double digits, 20%, 30% as per discussion in the previous earnings calls. So I just would like to understand, did we not foresee the situation or were we overoptimistic. So I mean what exactly went wrong with our optimism? So our results actually instead of double-digit growth, we saw a double-digit degrowth.

Right. So look, what has happened is, as I mentioned, there has been a significant slowdown in terms of CapEx spending by the operators. And yes, this was not anticipated. And anyway Jio was slow on CapEx spending, but it was not expected that Airtel will take a cue from that and also put a slowdown on CapEx spending there. But that's what has happened. They have been holding it on as well. And as far as DAS projects are concerned, yes, there has been significant delays in the decision making. Again, that was not anticipated by us. But yes, this is resulting in the overall performance for us.

What percent of revenues are we dependent on from Jio and Airtel and what percentage from DAS?

Look, it was almost 50-50 revenues from DAS and from operators.

So as per our current conversation, is the situation same or worse in terms of CapEx from Jio and DAS?

And yes, so operator business remains -- continues to remain same, and we expect that in this financial year, it will remain same. Though we are expecting that next year, anyway, early next year, next financial year, Jio is coming out with IPO. And post that, they will restart or rather they will be forced to spend a lot of CapEx investment. And at the same time, Airtel also come out -- will come out with CapEx spending. That's what the expectation is.

Got it. Sir, what about our other segments? Are we trying to diversify our revenue streams, so we reduce our dependencies? And what is the outlook for those for the current year?

So current year, see, these things are taking shape, Get Five Bars initiative or the electronic manufacturing service or to say AI analytics to ONT business. So they are shaping up now. And we expect them to contribute in this financial year itself in terms of revenues. But it's difficult to put a number because we are left with just one quarter now and we are doing this. So this will be acting more like a foundation for going into the next year.

All right. So I mean, in terms of next year from this smart AI -- the video detection AI platform and also in terms of EMS. So I mean for EMS, what kind of facility do we have? Or I mean, what stage are we in? And when can we start monetizing it? And same for the smart video detection?

Right. So EMS facility is already up and running. Our SMT line is up and running. So it's practically ready, and we are just in the conclusion stages of a few deals for that. On AI analytics, as I mentioned, we have already -- did a launch of our AI analytics tool in IFSEC exhibition in Delhi, which is currently taking place. So it is ready. We have to just do the go-to-market now for that.

So can you share the product profile from the EMS and the margin profile, what kind of products will come out and also the revenue potential from that EMS and by when can it be ramped up?

Right. So look, as far as product profile is concerned, we are engaged in discussion of manufacturing smart meters, manufacturing induction heaters, manufacturing PoE switches. So these are some of the products that we'll be doing. So we'll not be limited to what you say telecommunications product only, but we will be doing non-telecom electronic products as well in this. And as I said, it's in initial stage. So putting a number to it is going to be difficult right now for that.

All right. So basically we would be doing contract manufacturing for any opportunity we see...

Right.

And -- I mean just to understand like what kind of minimum revenue, peak revenues can like in the conservative scenario from this...

Look, the way we are seeing it is we are building a strong base, a strong foundation for our financial year '28 vision to do INR 500 crores in revenue there. So putting numbers -- granular number between now and then is difficult, but we cannot -- right now, we are solidifying the foundation for that.

Okay. And in the smart AI space, the video detection, currently, I mean, what kind of market are we looking at? Are we looking at B2B clients or like directly installing them in like homes and offices, and -- I mean, just the direct consumer space. So I want to understand, will it be like some this CCTV camera with smart detection or would we be targeting big facilities like airports. So what is our strategy there?

So the solution will work in small geographies, maybe a shop owner kind of situation till airport size opportunity. So it's going to work and it's the same software tool is going to work in both the locations. Only the amount of analytics that you need or the kind of analytics that you need at an airport will be different than the kind of analytics for a shopkeeper. So we are going to cover both the markets. Obviously, the corporate market will be covering with the direct sales. But as far as consumer market is concerned or small segment is concerned, we'll be going through channel partners. And this is -- the beauty about the solution is that you don't need to replace your existing CCTV camera setup. It's going to work on the existing setup.

All right. Got it. So basically, we are aiming at only software and not the hardware.

Look, hardware is a separate segment. This AI analytics tool is separate. So we have got -- under CCTV, we have got two brands now. One is AI EYE and second one FROG EYES. So FROG EYES is a brand for CCTV cameras -- camera solution, which is under STQC approval process? And second one is AI EYE. So AI EYE is a software tool, which is going to build intelligence on the cameras, which can be new cameras, which can be existing cameras.

Got it. So I mean what kind of discussions do we already have some order pipeline or -- I mean, in terms of acquiring clients. So just to get an idea of, I mean, market size and how we can ramp up in, say, next financial years.

So we are -- as I said, we launched it just yesterday. And now we are working with channel partners, engaging channel partners for this. So this is going to be a foundation quarter for us in the coming quarter for this to take it.

Okay. So can this also be used in manufacturing facilities, for example, to detect, say, if there are 5 -- if there are 10 products coming out of a manufacturing line. So can our AI tool camera be used to, say, detect some, say, 1 out of 10 products that is not meeting the physical appearance guideline or something like that?

Look, there are different use cases. Now with this specific use case, we have not developed so far. But we need to see the exact definition of the problem statement and then create a solution for it. So far, the cases that we have developed are like, what do you say like ANPR detection, which is the number plate detection. So we have created a solution for parking spaces. The parking spaces can be for residential societies or can be in the shopping malls, can be for office complex. So whereby -- it's a full system for parking -- ticketless parking as you say. And then there is a -- camera can detect smoke and fire and give you alarms. And you don't need to change cameras. So your existing cameras, let's say, yesterday, a shopkeeper came, visited us in the exhibition. He says that I don't get any alarms and I'm afraid like in my shop, if fire goes any time. So he is looking for -- and he has CCTV. So he's looking for a solution where he can get alarm in case there is any fire in the shop, especially after the shop has got closed. So this system can give you that kind of alarms. So there are different cases. There is perimeter safety. So if you have a factory, you can put a parameter around the area. And if someone is entering in that area in the defined timing, then you will be getting alarm. So all these tools are there. There are different analytics on which system works.

Got it. So basically, it can be scaled across different use cases. So this error detection in manufacturing lines, that's also one of -- I mean, so currently, in most manufacturing lines, error detection or detecting output that is subpar has been manually, but I have heard that there's a lot of R&D going in to automate this. So maybe you can look at that. But anyway, thank you very much.

Our next question comes from the line of Siddhant Singh from Green Portfolio Private Limited.

Sir, my first question is that like what is our order book product-wise as of now, today?

Siddhant ji, we released it along with the results, and that's what we did last month. So I don't have an updated figure right now.

Okay. So like INR 50 crores, INR 52 crores only?

Was there in the end of H1?

Yes, that was at the end of H1. So we have won any order in last 1 month or 2 months after...

Yes, orders do keep coming in. It's a process like that.

Okay. Sir, on CCTV manufacturing, like what is our manufacturing capacity, like units per day, how much we can manufacture right now?

So in terms of manufacturing capacity, we can -- with the current capacity we have, we can manufacture like 5,000 cameras per day. But this capacity is easy to upgrade. So as and when we see requirements going up, all what we need to do is add another SMT line to our floor. So the space is already there. The infrastructure is already there. We just need to order SMT line and that's it.

How much CapEx will be required? And how much cameras you can manufacture with that space?

Right. So for each addition of SMT line, we can add -- so we currently have one SMT line. With that, the capacity is 5,000 cameras a day. And so to add one SMT line, the CapEx requirement is about INR 10 crores.

Okay. And extra -- okay, with INR 10 crores, we can manufacture 500 extra CCTV cameras?

Not 500, 5,000 cameras.

5,000, okay. Sir, what will be the average realization, like what will be our selling price?

Look, it will again depend on camera to camera. The camera cost can vary from, let's say, INR 5,000 to maybe INR 50,000 depending on the -- what type of cameras is there...

Like we should be focusing on some type of camera, majorly see what we are going to like manufacture and sell. So what is our focus?

Look, in a CCTV business, you cannot be choosy that I'll do only this type of camera. On your shelf, you have to have a wide range of cameras. So currently, in our approval process, we already are doing almost 30 cameras, 30 different types of cameras. So yes. So -- and this is only the initial one. So we have to do more of it at a later date.

Okay. So sir, you talked about we will be going to manufacture cameras in coming -- like next quarter without STQC certificate also. So whether we have any pilot project or any order or any order in pipeline, any talking with the customers, like any visibility on that?

No, I didn't say that we are going to manufacture CCTV camera in next quarter without STQC. I didn't say that. What I said is next quarter, we will be doing AI analytics tools. So that's a software part of it, which makes your existing cameras intelligent.

Okay. Okay. So like we are expecting realization from next FY only, FY '27?

Yes. For CCTV cameras, yes, for next financial year only. But for AI analytics tools, we expect revenue generation even in next quarter.

Okay. Like can you guide some ballpark number, how much we are expecting from AI analytics next quarter?

That's going to be difficult for us to put any number to that at the moment.

Okay. Okay. Sir, also, like we have -- we are targeting INR 500 crores sale by FY '28. So how much new CapEx we will be requiring for achieving that or our current line, like current manufacturing facility can do that?

Most likely, we should be able to do with current facility. But at max, I think our CapEx requirement between now and financial year '28 to achieve that target should be about INR 15 crores to INR 20 crores at max.

Okay. INR 15 crores to INR 20 crores. Okay. And sir, like about PLI, like what will be our targeted revenue for FY '27 or '26 or '27 to claim PLI incentives?

Look, this year is not looking that great for us. So it depends on -- so this year, I don't see much contribution coming in from PLI anyways because the number is down. But yes, for next year, we should be aiming at something more than what we claimed last year.

Okay. Like in last year, we did INR 220 crores and you were guiding 30% incremental growth for FY '26. That would be around INR 280 crores, and we will be far behind that number. So we are targeting in FY '27, let's say, 20%, 30% more than FY '26 guidance like INR 300 crores, INR 350 crores for FY '27?

Yes. So although we have not given any number so far, but yes, it should be around that number of what you're saying, should be close to that.

Because if we are targeting like about INR 500 crores, we should be like growing around 50%, 60% just for next -- for FY '27 and '28 to achieve that number.

Yes, you're right.

And can you, sir, quantify a little bit of order pipeline, like how much order we can expect in, let's say, in next 6 months or 12 months?

Look, we are right now, as I mentioned, creating a solid foundation for our coming years. We are creating a lot of new streams of business and revenues. So we are still in the early stages for all those business streams. So putting a number to it right now is a really difficult part for me. But our objective is very clear where we want to reach by financial year '28. That's very clear.

Okay, sir. And yes, so for like AI analytics, like we are partnering with someone or we are like developing software tools in-house?

No, we are developing in-house tools for this, our own product here.

Your next question comes from the line of Rudraksh Raheja from ithought Financial Consulting.

So could you provide more details on this AI tools business that we have recently entered? Like who are the other players giving this kind of a service? And what kind of market size that we expect from this business?

So, Rudraksh ji, there are different ways to implement AI analytics tools, and there are different companies into this. So there is -- as far as Indian companies are concerned, the big players like CP PLUS or Sparsh, they are -- they do not have any in-house AI analytics tools. They depend on international companies for -- and they have tied up with international companies for AI analytics solutions. And second thing, what they are doing is, as you might have seen, CP PLUS has announced yesterday, some solutions of bringing AI analytics in the camera itself by partnering with Google and all. So that is -- that takes place. But for that, you need to have -- buy a high-end camera itself, new camera. And the AI analytics in that camera will be just 1 or 2. So you'll not -- you'll be limited by 1 or 2 analytics. Now here, what we are doing is a clear differentiator, whereas you can implement these tools on your existing cameras, existing setup of CCTV cameras. So you don't need to change anything. And our solution is made, developed for both small size deployment of CCTV cameras where even someone has 4, 8 or 16 cameras, it's going to work seamlessly for them also. And it is going to work seamlessly for even setups where you have hundreds of cameras deployed. So yes, this is a kind of differentiator for us. And this is a part of our strategy to show our presence in CCTV market.

So are we targeting like private players in this? Or -- I'm trying to get better sense on the ground like what is happening in the business, like what's our go-to-market strategy?

Right? So we will be -- so this solution is going to go to small players, maybe factories or it can be small shop owners. It can be for parking owners, whether to the societies, residential societies to what you say, government offices. So this is where the setup is already there, and they are not going to just buy or remove the current setup, current investment and buy new cameras because all other camera players are -- they need the change of the existing setup to implement AI analytics. And we see a clear trend going forward that everyone will be realizing that the CCTV cameras, which was currently deployed is practically not being used or rather being used namely as forensic purpose only. Once the incidents takes place only after that you go back and try to find out what went wrong. But if you want to make use of CCTV in an intelligent way, then you have to have AI analytics tools, which can give you alarms online instantly because people have realized that nobody sits in front of that monitor showing you 4, 8, 10 cameras, it doesn't work. So that's where our tool is going to help.

And sir, are there not any IT companies that are already providing this kind of a service? I know you said that Sparsh and CP PLUS, they are coming up with cameras itself, but IT companies, is anyone already here?

So there are companies who are doing this. But we are in a unique position that we do cameras as well as new AI analytics tools, everything under one umbrella.

Got it. Got it. Sir, how much CapEx have we spent on developing this product?

Look, this is an ongoing activity. So this is not a onetime activity. So you have to -- so there is a team which is there, which is working on this, and it's an ongoing activity. So it's not a one-time CapEx kind of thing.

So should we expect some increase in employee expenses or R&D expense going forward since this is a sort of a business?

Yes. So some reallocation of resources will happen here, and there might be some increase in the employee cost as well.

And sir, on the business model front for this, is it like a onetime sale or a subscription model kind of a thing?

We are playing with that idea. It's still early days on what -- so we are working on different models, different possible models. But yes, we are keen to have it as a recurring business model.

Got it. Got it. And sir, more clarity on this Get Five Bars business that we have recently added in the PPT also?

Right. So Get Five Bars is basically what we are doing is see if a normal business owner or an individual wants to have some solution for his indoor mobile coverage, whether it is office, factory, house, you -- till date, you don't have any solution in the market which you can use. You are only solely dependent on the mercy of operator. If he's going to put some solution there, and if he doesn't, then yes, you keep hanging on your balcony to make those calls. So that's where we have come in now. So what we are doing is we are providing solutions to all these individuals or business owners. whereby we can fix their in-building coverage. So that's the point. And this will be done in collaboration with operators.

Got it. And sir, again, similar line of questioning, like is anybody else earlier providing this kind of a service in the market?

Sorry...

I wanted to say there are any other players providing this kind of a service in the market.

No, no, there is no one who is providing this kind of service, Get Five Bars. This will be the first time we'll be launching this.

So it's more of a consultation-based business where you suggest what would be the optimal way to get the best...

No, no, no. So no, it's not that. It will be simple. If someone has issues in indoor coverage and wants a solution, he will connect with us, and we will go and fix the issue. This is all. It's not consultation. We'll put -- so the solution is we'll put an in-building coverage solution. So we'll put some wires, antennas inside his device. And we'll get a repeater from operator and install it along with this setup, and he'll get a better coverage.

We were providing IBS products earlier also, if I'm not wrong. So how does that align with what we are doing now?

Right. So earlier, what we were doing was supplying it to operator. And this we are currently -- this we are doing right now also. So operator buys it from us and he deploys it at places where he wants to deploy at no charge basis, okay? So if he feels that you are important enough by virtue of your position or your revenue coming in from your premise, then he will deploy the solution. If not, then he is not going to deploy that solution. Now we are -- what we are doing is we are providing direct service to consumers, whereby he pays for the solution, we go and implement the solution. And operator portion is reduced to only supplying the active part of it.

Got it, sir. Got it. Sir, we have mentioned defense sector in the PPT. So any updates on that front? Because I was -- my understanding was it was a bit slow to develop those kind of a product.

No. So look, the product -- it's not a new product for us, by the way. It's the same product what we already have. It is just that now defense have become more proactive in terms of looking for solution or trying solutions. So especially after Sindoor operation. So our coverage solutions, which are there, they are more actively trying for that and more actively looking for providing coverage into areas where they don't have coverage. So whether it is on the eastern side of the border or western side of the border, on the both sides, they are looking for -- because these are -- their camps are mainly in the very remote areas and hardly they get any coverage. So that's -- so they have tried our solutions in those areas now. And they are pretty happy about it. They need the solution. So that's what we mentioned.

Understood. Can you guide any number on this, like what could be the scale of this kind of a business?

Which one, you mean on the defense side or...

Yes.

Look, putting a number, again, these guys have tried, tested the solution. They like it. Now they are spreading the word to different command centers and the business is going to come from them. So whether it is going to be INR 1 crore business or INR 50 crore business, it's for me right now to put a number to it is not appropriate because I still don't have that idea. But definitely, the solution is there. They tried it, tested it, liked the solution. They are going to go with it. But in how much volume, it's not yet predictable.

Got it. Sir, on...

Sorry to interrupt. Rudraksh, may we request you to return to the queue for any follow-up questions as we have other participants waiting for their turn. We have our next question coming from the line of Prafull Rai from Arjav Partners.

I have a few questions. One is on the DAS side. You said you are -- you have a decent bid pipeline as we speak. Can you quantify that in some sense, what is the size of the pipeline we have?

Prafull, there is a pipeline which is about in the range of INR 100 crores of business, which is there for that.

And that is to be executed. Suppose you get a part of it also, what is the typical execution time line for these orders?

Execution from the order received, it can be executed within 3 months' timeline.

Okay. And generally, what has been our success rate historically?

Look, historically, if you look at it, then last year, we have seen success almost 100% of the cases.

Okay. That is one question. Second question is you are launching a lot of products, especially the AI tools for camera and for remote monitoring. That's an interesting product. But how will we reach out to people? I mean, see, it's a completely different channel. The product is intuitively very interesting, but how do you intend to market that? The market apparently is huge, but like how will you reach out?

Look, we -- to reach out to this kind of market, you need channels. So channels is the only way to reach out. There are already established channels who are currently working on different electronic products to take it to the marketplace. And we'll be riding on those channels only. We are not going to reinvent the wheel, but the existing channels, which are already working on this industry, we'll be just riding on them.

Third on the camera approvals, which we had mentioned that we should get it by March. Earlier, we were planning to get it by October, then December, then by March. What has changed? Is the goalpost changing because of some additional requirements we have to fulfill or where are we not able to get or government doesn't have the capacity to audit so many facilities which are coming up. Where is the problem?

So look, it's both ways. So there has been -- one is bottlenecks at the government side also. And second is there are -- once the product is evaluated, then there are some findings on that, which requires some modification on our side of it. So we have done those modifications. It's a bit of iteration process also.

So as we speak, we are done with whatever suggestions they had come with, and we are waiting for their approval. Is that right?

Yes. Yes. So we have done the changes and now we are again back in the queue.

Okay. And when you say before March, what is the -- let's say, I'm sure you would have done the math in terms of how many days they come, this, that. But when you say before March, means what is the assumption for that? Like can it get further delayed? Or can it happen by January also?

Look, it's -- till the time it's not done, it's not done, okay? And dealing with government segment, you can only estimate. So it's an estimation.

Okay. And last question, you said you are getting into EMS services because you already have SMT line, so you can iterate a lot on that. You also said that you intend to get into smart meters, which is an outcome of having a base line in place. when we talk of, say, 2 years down, we are seeing INR 500 crores kind of revenue is what we are anticipating. If I just look at that number, what is in your mind a revenue composition of the company look like when we achieve that INR 500 crore number?

Look...

Very broad number. We'll not hold you for that, but get your mind in terms of how you think about.

Right. So this is not the first time someone asked me this question, and my answer remains the same as it was. So I'm looking at 50% of this revenue is coming from our wireless division, wireless operations and 50% of that is coming from our other segment, which is new segment, which is -- includes CCTV or EMS or ONTs.

Okay. So basically, if I just conclude, we are having INR 100 crore kind of a bid pipeline. If we are able to get that before March, we'll execute that. We started the quarter with an order backlog of INR 50-odd crores. If things go as per plan, this first half was a setback before you are not committing for second half, we understand. But has there been improvement in the pipeline from where we were as we speak? Or the delay has happened. But like any sense you can give in terms of -- has there been improvement vis-a-vis first half or a very similar environment continues?

Look, this environment continues a similar way till today. But we are expecting some closures of the deals still. And once that happens, then we still have close to 3.5 months ahead of us.

Correct. But if you're able to get that, that's a very serious number, but if you're able to get -- if you take a last year's success rate, then you would be sort of close to where you are.

Yes, let's hope for it. Let's hope for it.

[Operator Instructions] Our next follow-up question comes from the line of Rudraksh Raheja from ithought Financial Consulting.

I wanted to ask like how many of the Indian CCTV players have already got the STQC approval?

So, we're not sure -- I understand that there are 4 or 5 companies who have got it. I think 5. Fifth one got it recently. So one is CP PLUS, then is Sparsh, then there is Matrix, then there is Prama. And recently, I think Bosch also got it. So yes.

Understood, sir. And sir, if I'm recalling it correctly, we were hoping that we would first enter the tender business for the CCTV, right?

Right.

And since like 6, 7 players have already got the approval and certainly more would join the queue. So what kind of EBITDA margins can we expect from this kind of position.

Look, the market is huge. So definitely, these players who were there, they were always there. They were always there in this market. And what I know about the market in the current phase, these guys are not able to fulfill the market demands currently. They are not able to cater to the requirements in terms of volume. So there is definitely a need for more. What was the second question?

That was my question. Can you quantify like what's the annual tender demand for? I just wanted to understand from the demand side, like annual run rate, what kind of demand on the number of cameras that we are seeing currently?

Look, if you go by the number -- the TAM of the market TAM which was mentioned in CP PLUS DHRP, it was INR 12,000 crores market TAM, right? So out of which almost 50% is standard-based market.

Got it. But no idea on the volume or number side?

Volume or number means, which number you're talking?

Number of cameras, yes.

Number of cameras. Yes, that's -- we can reverse calculate that number by taking an average camera value is INR 10,000.

Our next question comes from the line of Prafull Rai from Arjav Partners.

I'm Prafull's colleague. I just wanted to understand in between like a few months back, 6 months or so, Jio as a telecom operator was not doing any CapEx for IBIS and such other solutions. So though you said that the participants are directly reaching to you, but your major subscriber base would have been the telcos. Is the situation continuing? Or how do you see the business environment in that aspect?

So that's what I'm saying. The telcos CapEx spend is reduced drastically. So yes, that is there. But I think you are trying to compare it with get Get Five Bars proposition, what we have?

Yes.

Yes. So Get Five Bars is something where individual will be investing or the business will be investing rather than the operator.

Yes. So I wanted to understand how much of it is actually panning out on the ground? Is the business or the other guys investing or you see the telcos doing it? How much of the individual ones are actually converging?

We are about to launch this Get Five Bars. It's only what you say, prelaunch, some exercise has been done. And it's encouraging exercise for us. People do need this solution for their factories and businesses and they are ready to invest for this.

As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Konark Trivedi for closing comments.

Thank you, everyone. Thank you for participating in this conference call. Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of Frog Innovations Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.