Gedeon Richter PLC (RICHTER) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Gedeon Richter's First Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call. My name is Robert Rethy, I'm Head of Investor Relations and ESG. Today, we have a -- the -- actually, it's not the usual lineup of senior management because we had a recent change in a position of the Chief Financial Officer. So for the first -- it's not the first time for László, but the first time in his capacity as a CFO. So my pleasure to welcome László on this call again as well as Gabor Orban, our Chief Executive Officer. I want to share with you the usual technical details of today's call. We will be following, as normal, the usual format, a formal presentation of the slides that we published this morning, which is -- which are downloadable from our website, gedeonrichter.com. And that will be followed by a Q&A session where you have a chance to ask questions either using the raise your hand functionality of MS Teams or put your question in the chat box. A couple of more reminders. This call is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] And finally, a reminder of the cautionary statement we have at the end of the presentation, in particular regarding forward-looking statements, what the presentation on this call may include. And with that, I hand it over to Gabor, who will walk you through the details of the quarter.

Thank you, Robbie. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining the call today. We have a very successful first quarter. A good -- we're off to a good start in 2025. Our guidance for the full year remains intact. We delivered broadly in line with our own plans and seemingly very much in line with analyst consensus, which I think reflects the reliable nature of our performance and also the efforts of Robbie and his team to explain and communicate our business performance and generally the events that shape our numbers. Pharma sales was up by -- or were up by 10% in the quarter from the previous year compared to a relatively high base, especially when it comes to women's health. So we are very satisfied with that growth number. In euro, this is equivalent to HUF 544 million in revenues, which translated into a clean EBIT of HUF 169 million, up by 7% and very much in line with the EBIT headline figure at EUR 167 million and also closely matching or matched by the free cash flow figure, which was HUF 60 billion up in the first quarter. This is a record number, by the way, so we're very proud to have generated so much cash in a period of 3 months. Clean EBIT and EBIT now fall close to each other, and we hope to keep it that way for the rest of the year. The definition of clean EBIT has changed. It's important for you to note that impairment costs are reflected now in this clean EBIT figure in order to make sure that the organization has or have their eyes on the prize, and we keep impairment costs, meaning stock, obsolete stock and the scrap under control. So we're well on track to deliver the pharma revenues of between EUR 2.3 billion and EUR 2.4 billion by the end of the year. It should be highlighted upfront that we are proud to have published or we're proud to be among first to have published a CSRD sustainability report, which reflects our commitment to not only the social impact that we deliver as part of our core business, but also the focus that we place as an organization on the side effects of everything that we do. In our practice, effect and side effects are not strangers. They're well known to us. We're familiar with the idea of generating unintended consequences when it comes to performing our duties. And a general -- or a generalized approach to this is to also take into account our impact on the environment and society at large. So the team having conducted a massive internal survey came up with this materiality matrix, which reflects to you the broad view of the situation in terms of working conditions, compliance, environmental impact, data security and social impacts, including equal treatment and safety. I'm very proud of this publication. And as much as it has cost us in terms of an administrative burden and also some sleepless nights for some of our colleagues, I'm very proud of the efforts led by Robbie and -- as well as his team as well as everyone else who was involved in the project, which is not a small number. We're talking about 20-plus departments. And how many people?

40 people.

Yes, 40, 50 people. And I want to make sure that you don't get the sense that we do nothing but prepare materiality matrix -- matrices and reports and so on, so I'll get to our financial highlights quickly, which show basically that we've had a very balanced operation in the first quarter, all helped also by FX gains. At least up until the middle of March, we had a tailwind even from the U.S. dollar definitely from the ruble and the euro. And of course, the volatility, it kicked in on the back of U.S. announcements. And there's been more of those lately, so exchange rates will continue to impact our business. But in the first quarter, they were relatively benign and added about 4 percentage points to revenue performance. The picture was also balanced when it comes to geographical regions. The only one group of countries that could not deliver growth was Asia Pacific, and that has to do with the free shipments that were made in early 2024. It put a drag on later quarters, but also, it serves as a high base now, especially, as I said, in women's health. But other than that, you see healthy growth across the board. And when it comes to individual quarters, I think there's a sense of consistent delivery across the business units. General medicines was among the winners in the first quarter with double-digit growth at 12%. And even factoring in the exchange rate effect, the growth rate was as high as 9%. So we're very happy with the performance there. It should be mentioned that the base effect in this case, wasn't as pronounced as it was in women's health, which notwithstanding, managed to grow at 3% and 6.3% if we look at the headline number, which again was helped by foreign exchange gains at the revenue level. Bio was expected to rise double digits, so no surprise there. Again, some positive tailwind from FX. Non-Vraylar CNS is a bit more disappointing, maybe, at a flattish on the year. Some of this reflects, again, the timing of shipments. Some of it also reflects our efforts to rationalize Reagila promotion in areas where profitability is limited. Costs rose in line with revenues broadly according to plan, pretty much. R&D, for timing reasons, was maybe less of a contributor at this time, it grew only by 4.5%. Some of this has to do with the tapering off of R&D expenses in biotechnology. This is some -- this was to be expected. We have spoken about this many times. Now that we are at the date of launching 4 products in the second half of the year, a lot of the clinical trials with significant costs are behind us, it's only natural to expect that biotechnology R&D costs should level off or even decline. That said, the innovative parts of our business require increasing amounts of funding. The progressing 932 and 691 and the discovery phase projects, they all cost money in CNS. And our innovative ambitions in women's health also require that we increase our R&D spend in that business unit. Other than that, there isn't much to see. We continue to focus on keeping G&A costs at bay and convert to the strategic plan in terms of the G&A-to-revenues ratio, we have a very -- a well-defined, highly detailed plan that we start executing in the second half of this year. So clean EBIT landed at HUF 66 billion FX adjusted, HUF 68.7 billion as the headline figure, which is equal to EUR 167 million. The composition is broadly similar to what you've become used to recently. I should mention that while Vraylar was a drag on performance last year compared to guidance and plans, this time, in the first quarter, at least, we have not yet seen the headwinds coming from plan Part D redesign. I keep saying PLAN B, which is another important thing for us in this company. We provide PLAN B for the U.S. out of Hungary. I'm talking about Part D redesign, sorry to confuse you. In the context of the Inflation Reduction Act, AbbVie faces a headwind of EUR 200 million this year. The timing of that EUR 200 million was always a question, and it turns out that so far in the first quarter, the numbers have not been impacted by those headwinds. They certainly will come sooner or later out of Medicare in this -- in the upcoming part of the year. But the consequence of that is simply the CNS business unit outperformed slightly expectations, and this was reflected both in revenues and also in -- and even more so in EBIT. When it comes to the composition of -- in net profit and also the analysis of free cash flow, I'm asking László Kovács, our CFO, to comment on the next 2 slides.

Thank you, Gabor. Here. As usual, you can see the bridge between the clean EBIT and the net profit figures. Good news is that there's no big difference between clean EBIT and EBIT. I would like to once more highlight your attention that we made an adjustment to the clean EBIT definition as of the beginning of this year. So the relevant figure from previous year was EUR 671 million for the whole year clean EBIT according to the amended definition. FX gains are significant this year. Most of them are unrealized gains. And as a result of the volatility of Hungary, for instance, towards dollar and rubles. You may see the taxes as quite big figures. We use the [ S&P ] tax rate method for interim financial reporting and that gives us a slight deviation compared to the expected 15% level that was before. And due to the better FX gains, we have stronger net profits compared to the previous periods. And maybe one more thing to highlight that this year, the contribution of associates are getting to be more or less meaningful in the end. When we come to the cash flows, we are very proud to present you a strong operating and very strong free cash flows for the first quarter. Good news is that the -- there is a positive trend of declining cash conversion cycle, which was on a peak last year quarter -- at the end of the second quarter. What is a slight negative impact in our net working capital is basically the change in payables which part of normal seasonality. So there is no other significant events behind. I would like to bear your attention that we are going to pay out the dividends very soon, in a month's time, so that's going to be HUF 93 billion. So we've used most of the cash flow that was generated and some of the excess cash that we have in the balance sheet right now.

Thank you, László. And just a reminder for everyone. Other associated companies' income when into revenues and EBIT as a consequence of the acquisition of the health shares in the biotechnology facility in Germany. And also, the teriparatide asset acquisition led to the same. Now that was actually more important in this regard to the same effect. So one fewer lines to watch, I suppose. [ OCI ], less important than before. When it comes to R&D, I think the most important developments recently, literally are the biotechnology launches that are ahead of us. We have a positive opinion for denosumab from the CHMP, European Medicines Agency, which allow us -- it clears the runway for a November launch, that's when the patent expires. And secondly, the tocilizumab file has been well received by the European Medicines Agency. We have a confirmation of that also, which again leaves us with the task of launching for biotechnology biosimilar products in the second half of this year. CNS projects are well on track. Nothing to report on those for the moment. What's important, however, is our efforts in women's health that have borne fruit in the form of a press release this morning. As you know, our ambition has been, for a number of years, to strengthen our presence in women's health in the U.S., not directly by establishing a field force and a local organization, let alone manufacturing, but by serving U.S. patients one way or the other, in partnerships with the U.S. companies. As you are well aware, last year's acquisition has established a relationship between the commercial partner of estetrol, drospirenone also known as NEXTSTELLIS in the U.S. The brand name is NEXTSTELLIS. It's known as Drovelis in Europe. It's the most the fastest-growing and most innovative contraceptive combination out there today. But our ambition is as in women's health generally is to grow the other 3 subsegments of women's health, which includes menopause, endometriosis and fertility. And we have made advances in the fertility space in recent years by collaborating with Granata Bio, a very able and competent and dynamic U.S.-based biotech company. Biotech in the sense of small pharma enterprise. And the Granata Bio is active exactly in the fertility space where we are already a significant player in Europe, meaning serving IVF clinics with our FSH also known as Bemfola or HMG, which is another a compound used in -- by the same part of the medical community. So by acquiring or rather increasing our participation in -- over Granata Bio by acquiring the rights to HMG, which as soon as it can go to market, we'll start generating cash flows for Richter. And finally, and maybe most importantly, developing Bemfola together for the U.S. This allows us a way in to U.S. IVF patients and doctors, both as the owner of the asset and the assets in plural, and secondly as a supplier, manufacturer of high value-added, very technologically intensive, high-tech drugs. Here, we're talking about the affordable space, even though women's health -- we think of ourselves and women's health as the innovator, given that we are the -- by far, the most innovative company out there. The only one practically that -- whose ambition is to elevate therapeutic standards. An example being Ryeqo endometriosis, where the feedback from U.K., France, Australia have been enormously positive. And we really feel like this is a game changer for those countries and those patients. That said, with Bemfola, we are in the biosimilar and affordable care part of the effort. And for that reason also, the U.S. turmoil that we all, let's say, worry about these days, we don't see that impacting us directly. Finally, just a few more thoughts before you ask questions anyway about this, on everything that's going on in the U.S. I'll put the conclusion upfront and not leave you with suspense. We continue to believe that the U.S. is an attractive market where Richter has a future and has a reason to look for ways to create value. The first round of tariffs did not include pharma, which was -- sounded like very good news. I think it reflects an understanding that the pharmaceutical industry cannot be grown out of nothing in the U.S. Nothing meaning greenfield by imposing tariffs. So that -- what -- it's very encouraging. It was also flagged, however, at the time that sooner or later, initiatives would be announced on how to tackle some outstanding issues, importantly, security of supply-related issues, so reshoring, reestablishing manufacturing on U.S. soil. And secondly, addressing the price gap between Europe and the U.S. I think yesterday's developed news or developments or announcements reflect the fact that solving this problem cannot happen overnight. Neither manufacturing reshoring nor addressing the price issues can be solved in a -- by cutting the Gordian knot, meaning short-term gestures and executive orders will not be enough to address this. In the long term, the situation remains fluid. We continue to believe that by creating value for U.S. patients, we can have a sustainable business model. And the U.S. revenues included in our strategic plan can be realized in the next 10 years. Okay. I'm looking at Robbie to find out if we can now move on to questions.

Yes. Thank you very much, Gabor. And we are now ready to take your questions. So please, either use -- raise your hand functionality or just put your question to the chat box. So our first question will be coming from Victoria today. Go ahead, Victoria.

I've actually got quite a few. Just -- the first one's just on the Reagila slowdown in Q1. You mentioned shipping, timing of shipping. Just want to understand if there's like anything else happening there because I think this is the first quarter we've seen a contraction in that market. So what are you thinking for the rest of the year? And then just to get a sense of the Granata, the size of that deal, I don't think I saw sort of financial terms disclosed. And then I know you just mentioned the U.S., and that's an attractive market. And would you be able to quantify if the -- what confirmed tariffs? What sort of financial impact this could have?

László will address the Reagila question, yes.

Yes. As for -- thank you, Gabor. As for Reagila, it's -- no, we don't see a slowdown. There's some turmoil because we changed partner in Australia that has a one-off effect, which kicks in, and the rest is shipping. So it seems quite odd because in the previous quarters, we always reported high increases, but we expect no big change throughout the entire year. So it's rather one-off effect plus a change of partner in Australia.

On the Granata question, thank you, Victoria, for raising that. Due to the discussions that we had with Granata Bio, we tried to be as, let's say, limited in the set of information that we provide as possible. It's -- think of it as a biosimilar project's budget that we are allocating to this collaboration. That would be the order of magnitude that you should have in mind. Meaning a biosimilar drug development costs, EUR 100 million, let's say, tenfold as a biosimilar drug. There are 2 partners splitting the costs. I think that's the size of this deal that you should think of. Robbie, please carry on.

Yes. Perhaps what we can share that there are various lacks of this collaboration or progression in terms of financials and cash outflows. So there is the equity lag, and this was not the first round of financing we provided to them. This was the second round when we increased our participation. Then there is a very small upfront payment, but that's really small, that single-digit U.S. dollar millions. And then there is our contribution to funding the Phase III trial for their original product for the U.S. market, which is in magnitude, something close to what Gabor mentioned. So if you add up all these together, then we're talking about a few tens of millions of U.S. dollar when it comes to cash outflow concerning the immediate future as previously. And then, obviously, as Phase III trials for their drug and Bemfola will be happening, then we will be contributing along the studies.

We hope to receive cashback as early as 2030. Again, very much in line with the way we're positioned financially, having funds to invest now, having the expertise in the fertility, given the 10-year history that we -- and knowledge we have accumulated in Europe, we can provide. We can also contribute, and we will, our manufacturing capabilities and the funding capacity. So that will, according to the plans, translate into cash flows coming our way starting 2030. And finally, when it comes to quantifying the financial impact of the announcements from the U.S., I'm afraid there's absolutely nothing we can -- no number that we can attach to what's been announced. In fact, the news flow that we have had is broadly neutral for now. I mean our exposure is rather limited in the form of certain -- I mean, in terms of the physical suppliers that we make to the U.S., a couple of million API supplies. Another couple of tens of millions in the form of finished products, no tariffs or restrictions or levies of any kind have been imposed. So as for now, there's no financial impact to speak of.

That's really helpful. And just one last one to sneak in. Just on Donesta. Have you -- could you just update us where you are with that asset? I think you said you filed with the EU regulators. Or just to get an update there would be helpful.

Yes. I'm afraid I cannot provide you with an update at this point. Even though we pointed to a May update, I'm afraid this update will have to wait until at least the second half of May. We are now -- we are still awaiting feedback from the European Medicines Agency on the best way forward to -- and the way in which the filing should be done in order to maximize the probability of obtaining a label, which can then be -- which can serve the most number of patients. So this is what's under discussion. And I'm asking for some more patience on your part.

I don't see any other questions at this stage, so I'm just wondering -- we're encouraging you to ask your questions.

I've got more questions. Sorry...

Yes. Go ahead. Because Alistair unfortunately is not participating today, so we lost one of the key...

It's your lucky day. Go ahead.

Yes. I've got more questions. Just on Vraylar, Q1 was a bit ahead of what consensus was expecting, more on like when AbbVie reported. So maybe you could just update us on if you're still taking market share in Vraylar and then how you expect that Part D pricing will impact you in the year? So I would just like to get a sense of phasing for that Part D impact, would be helpful.

Robbie, do you want to take this one?

So on first quarter performance of Vraylar, in a way, as Gabor said, there was very little or limited pricing impact. So meaning that most of the growth that you saw there was volume-driven. So double-digit volume growth or prescription growth, and this is exactly what AbbVie has been guiding for the year. So they continue to see a very strong uptake of Vraylar, and that's been happening, thus far, this year. So double-digit volume growth, and we expect this to continue throughout the year. Meaning also that, yes, Vraylar is still taking a significant share of new-to-brand prescriptions. So performing quite well in that area as well. And a little bit -- all the worries with regard to competition, at least so far, doesn't seem to be overly -- or doesn't play out or hasn't played out yet. In terms of the Part D redesign impact, I think it's, for us, very difficult to comment. But even for AbbVie, very difficult to comment more precisely in terms of the timing. But this is related to the cap for the out-of-pocket expenses for patients. And logically, you would expect this impact coming more towards the end of the year or second part of the year as patients are reaching or exceeding this $2,000 cap, and then the manufacturer's contribution will be having an effect on prices. So that's how we see there Vraylar.

Great. That is helpful. And then just a clarification question on the biosimilars. So I think, Gabor, you said you could have 4 launches in the second half of the year. So that's the 2 denosumab products and then possibly the tocilizumab biosimilar. What's the fourth one or I might have misheard you?

No, no, thank you for that clarification. I counted in ustekinumab, which maybe I shouldn't have, and I didn't mean to confuse you.

No, I think ustekinumab, we'll be launching this year. But tocilizumab, I think it's going to be next year only. So the -- within the next 12 months, probably...

Yes, 12 months, that's the key, the time window that, yes, you should expect those 4 to be rolled out.

Calendar year-wise. Yes, calendar year, denosumab is going off patent end of November in Europe. So that's when we expect to be on market, if all goes well. And ustekinumab also, similarly be -- well, we still need to get the approval. But again, if all goes well, then towards the end of the year. And tocilizumab, we just filed in March. So approval, well, it's probably towards the end of the year or early next year and then launching next year.

Right. That's helpful. And just for the denosumab in Europe, it's going to -- Sandoz is launching. I think a few others have also got approval and plan to launch a similar time to you. What different -- what edge do you think Richter has? Or do you think you can use your relationships you have already through the women's health care business or through your Terrosa biosimilar? Just trying to get a sense of how you're going to approach this commercially.

It's a very fair question. And we did pick this group of compounds and brands precisely because we saw limited competition at the time in the rheumatology, osteoporosis space. And you would be correct in pointing to the fact that there doesn't seem to be very limited competition. This space is quite crowded. There's a number of competitors to be -- to fight for market share. What helps us is a couple of things. First of all, the in-house nature of the whole project. From development to manufacturing and including most of commercialization, it's all within one organization. This should be a plus. Secondly, osteoporosis and bone-related indications are well known to us, with the experience and network built out in commercializing Terrosa, but also because of the postmenopausal osteoporosis indication of denosumab connecting us with the women's health space. This is stronger in some countries and weaker in others. Spain, for example, happens to be a market where these 2 are closely intertwined. And the synergies are important in other markets where the channels are very distinct, this will not be helping. Other than that, I think the biosimilar business model is looking for an equilibrium, is looking for a steady state. And clearly, it hasn't found it yet. So we'll find out the extent to which prices will get under pressure as a consequence of having more competitors than anticipated.

And how do you think you're positioned on the like input cost side for your biosimilars? Because you now have home, you have more capacity, so do you think you're in a reasonably good position versus some of the competition like in the biosimilars?

Yes. Sorry to cut you off. I'd say it's one of our strengths, yes. I -- the German facilities doesn't have very much to do with this because it's a microbial site. But yes, the in-house manufacturing and the relatively low-cost location being Hungary is an advantage. I should not overemphasize or overdo that argument because a lot of the input material costs the same to everyone, including packaging material and the resin and some of those costly items. So yes, this is an advantage, but it shouldn't be exaggerated.

Great. That's fair. And have you had any feedback from the FDA on the U.S. filing? Or is that also just like waiting for the approval or more communication for denosumab.

No, we haven't had much. Nothing that we can share at the moment.

Cool. And final question, I promise. The -- your finance, your net finance income or costs for the year, I know that your FX has a big contribution. If we took FX where it is now, do you think for the full year, you'd be sort of net positive? Or just to get a better sense of that item would be helpful because it's a bit volatile.

No, I don't see why not, really. But, László, you can maybe comment in more detail. And there are no other items affecting the financial P&L other than what we expect to realize, keeping the exchange rates constant. I suppose not -- what you see is not unrealized today would turn into realized profits, and then just more would be accumulated. Is there any other factor driving this number?

No. At the moment, no. No other big numbers.

And we would lose a little bit on the dollar, if you take today's exchange rate. But net-net, I think it would still be positive. So it's an FX gain, if you take today's exchange rate. Okay. So we have now a couple of questions in the chat. So what is the outlook for general medicines segment for rest of 2025? Do you think that the pricing mix growth will be continued? What key launches do we expect in the rest of the year? This is coming from Dawid Górzynski.

Yes. Thank you for that question. I think general medicines is unfairly neglected. It deserves a lot more attention and credit than we tend to give it. It's in a good streak. It's dynamically growing. We continue to see a positive price effect. I know that the messages from the sector have been mixed, but that is mostly due to the exposure to biosimilars by some of our peers. In the small molecule generics piece that continues to be a relatively benign environment. I think it has to do more with the appreciation of nearshore or local production, so to speak. Local production and the extent to which those declines have been overdone in the past, leading to shortages. New product launches are coming up. Multiple sclerosis is one area where this is imminent and being rolled out in country after country. And we have several others, especially in the NOAC space that continue to be a tailwind for the business unit. So yes, expect to see a portfolio freshness over and above what we achieved last year. Remember, we slightly underperformed our plans by a couple of tens of percentage points. But still, we have even more ambitious plans now, and we aren't -- we have no reason to believe why we couldn't deliver them.

Okay. And so the next 2 questions, actually, from Lukasz Kosiarski. The first one is on CDMO, that how the business is looking like for the rest of the year. If we're seeing more client inquiries to outsource production to Europe instead of China, also price competition. So that's CDMO. And the second question is if we expect milestone payments this year.

Yes. Thank you for those questions. When it comes to CDMO, I think a lot of the client flow has been driven by preferred -- preferring European sources instead of Chinese. And this is not the story of 2025. We have seen interest on that basis for a few years now. It's also what gave us the confidence to expand the facility. So I don't think that's a game changer event in CDMO. What's overshadowed slightly the sector is rather the uncertainties coming out of the U.S., whether U.S. accounts would want to relocate production into Europe given everything that's going on. And you probably are aware that if a development project is localized in the European facility, it will have to stay there for the commercial phase unless a tech transfer, which is equivalent to a redevelopment of the technology takes place, commercial will have to stay there. So this is a negative for the sector, but a very, very small probability event for now. Given the global shortage of biotechnology capability, and what I read as a recognition by the U.S. authorities of having to be -- or of taking it easy on the sector because of its delicate nature, I might be wrong, but this is the way I read their words for the moment. I'm optimistic that U.S. clients will not feel uneasy bringing their business to European CDMOs. Do we expect milestone payments this year, László, will know.

In biotech and women's health care, very few, so a few million dollars. In terms of CNS, there is a chance that this year, will -- there will be an additional milestone payment with AbbVie when we get there soon -- later this year.

But not -- but the extent of that will not be comparable to the milestones that we booked last year. So overall, we expect significantly less milestone income compared to previous year. Okay. So more and more questions are coming, it's very good. Next one is from Bram regarding teriparatide sales, which were flat year-on-year.

Well, again, timing and shipping issues affected teriparatide. Our plans are unaffected, are undisturbed by the first quarter numbers, so we expect some pickup in later months. Despite the fact that ensuring the supply of teriparatide has been challenging lately. We continue to aim for growth from the previous year.

Next one from [indiscernible]. What's the planned CapEx for this year? And if the strong cash position can support the upcoming R&D collaborations or acquisition of R&D projects.

Yes. With CapEx, if we consider the normal BP&E CapEx, we are planning with a slightly decreasing cap at around HUF 55 billion. So definitely would like to see that this number going south. And the second part of the question, so cash position. Yes, so the -- our net cash position in foreign terms is around HUF 240 billion. As I mentioned, HUF 93 billion is now being spared for dividend. And yes, it is there to support R&D. And as we all know, we need to have some cash if there's anything on the market for acquisitions. We are not preparing to have anything big, it's just that -- business as usual.

And on your specific question on whether the cash position can support R&D or acquisitions, et cetera, the answer is yes, it is an enabler, but our -- I want to make sure that every -- it's clear to everyone, just having cash on hand will not prompt us to pursue R&D collaborations or acquisitions that we otherwise have not included in our strategic plans.

Next one is from Gabor, Concorde, regarding the demand health care segment, what are our expectations for the rest of the year in terms of EBIT margin, if you see improvement from the Q1 level and what could be the source of that?

Well, the source of that could be the impact on this strong base from the first quarter last year that what -- the implications of that for all of our ratios in women's health. Because consider the following: we had a large shipment last year, first quarter in a product which has a relatively high gross margin, and the costs are much more evenly distributed over time, especially sales and marketing costs, especially in the region affected, which is China. So yes, there is a negative impact on the EBIT margin of women's health and also on the sales and marketing cost ratio of women's health in the first quarter. This particular large shipment in Q1 last year, it is expected to even out across the rest of the year. Meaning the best is yet to come, definitely, for women's health this year. And I understand how it's a bit disturbing, but really, much of the positives are concentrated on Q4 for this particular business unit. Much of the growth coming out of the rollouts, much of the base effects in the technical and shipment phasing effects. A lot of it is in -- ends in Q4. In contrast with last year's Q4, which was, let's face it, weak for this business unit.

And a follow-up from Gabor regarding demand health care, if we have -- done with the reorganization of being acquired.

Yes, we have finished the integration of the Belgian entity. And the R&D team is now fully operational and up and running. So the projects are -- progressed, and the external opportunities are being pursued in order to build the women's health original pipeline.

Last, the entity reported positive profits in the first quarter, fully in line with our expectation at the date of acquisition.

And I think the last one for today that's coming from a different chat box, it's a clarification question regarding the impairment value included in clean EBIT in the first quarter and whether this is the run rate for the year.

It's a -- yes, it's about the run rate for the year, yes. We expect -- definitely, we expect less than that was in previous year. And what you have incorporated there, it's just in line with the expected...

First quarter was very small, right, less than EUR 1 billion?

I don't think the question is -- unless the question's about the clean EBIT, EBIT bridge.

No, you're right, it's the impairment.

The impairment, it's incorporated in both EBIT and now in clean EBIT. It is a bigger number, smaller than what we had last year. And yes, we expect to have a significant improvement in scrap waste and obsolete stock this year compared to last. Whether the first quarter number can be multiplied by 4 -- what's the first quarter number? I'll tell you if it can be.

It's a bit -- yes, I wouldn't multiply it by 4. It's a bit less, that's what we expect. So...

Yes. So maybe multiply by 5.

All right. I think we're also running out of time, so thank you very much for all the questions. Ultimately, it did become a quite interactive call. Thanks for joining us for today. If you have any other questions, as usual, just please reach out to Investor Relations. Have a great day, and we'll see you in 3 months' time. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.