Genmab A/S (GMAB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary
January 10, 2024
Earnings Call Speaker Segments
James Gordon
analystGood morning. I'm James Gordon, JPMorgan European pharma and biotech analyst. And today, I've got the pleasure of introducing the Genmab presentation. And we're going to hear from Genmab's CEO, Jan van Winkel. Thanks very much for joining us today, Jan, and look forward to the presentation.
Jan van de Winkel
executiveThanks, James. It's a real pleasure to once again, at the JPMorgan conference in 2024, give a presentation on our company. The slides of today's presentation will be available for download on our website immediately after the event. So let's get started. The presentation may contain forward-looking statements, and as such, may contain certain risks and uncertainties. I'm sure you're all familiar with that. Over a more than 20-year history, we have had a laser sharp focus on harnessing the power of human antibodies to develop differentiated antibody therapeutics. Behind that focus is an unstoppable team and the core purpose, which guides our work, an extremely successful strategy and an inspirational and ambitious vision for the company. Following the approval of our second product in 2023, we have never been in a better position to achieve our inspirational vision. We have a consistent and solid track record of success, which you can see here on the left. The success is supported by an extremely strong financials that allow us to invest in growth opportunities. And taken together, we have built a solid foundation that has supported our evolution into a fully integrated biotech innovation powerhouse. Our successes have been possible because of what makes us unique. We firmly believe in the natural ability of the immune system to fight against disease. And we use our deep understanding of disease mechanisms, targets and antibody biology to invent proprietary technologies. This in-house expertise is met with strategic partnerships that help us to take our products further than we can do on our own, and give us access to high quality and unique disease targets and additional cutting-edge technologies that can be combined with our own. We leverage a combination of cutting-edge scientific capabilities and innovative scientific approach, our expertise in translational research and strategic partnerships to create a robust pipeline of potentially first-in-class or best-in-class products. So here is a summary of our innovative clinical pipeline as it exists today. In green on the top, our 9 products or product candidates with at least 50% ownership of Genmab. And this number will move to 11 very quickly, once our next programs with BioNTech, GEN1059 and GEN1055 enter the clinic in the coming months. Most programs either are or have the potential to be first-in-class or best-in-class, including our 2 approved medicines, EPKINLY and TIVDAK, and I will describe them later. In blue, you will see multiple programs being developed by partners that were either created by Genmab or via our proprietary DuoBody technology. There's no cost for us for these programs. And once approved, they provide us with recurring royalty revenue. Thinking about that recurring revenue, let's take a moment to look at the high quality and the power of our discovery engine that you believe sets us up very well for the long term. First, we have 8 approved medicines, as you can see in the box on the right, that are part of our innovation and technology and are currently generating revenue for us. The top 3 are already blockbusters. The remaining 5 have meaningful growth profiles and have the potential to become blockbusters or mega blockbusters. I can say this with confidence because we have the clinical development plans in place and with our partners, we are investing to make this happen. The 6 royalty-generating products are marketed by pharma and biotech powerhouses, J&J, Novartis and Amgen and our 2 proprietary products are co-marketed with AbbVie and Pfizer. And they are both concerned potential blockbusters. So we are confident that we will realize this potential, especially with AbbVie and Pfizer on our sites. So now let's turn on to the power of a highly productive R&D engine. Of around the 40 programs we have moved in the clinic -- to the clinic, as I noted, 8 are already approved and 19 are in active clinical development as we speak. There's a high level of success compared to peers, and this is no accident. We understood very early on that the competitive advantage of our deep [ dive ] antibody science and focused discovery engine could provide. So we have invested more in discovery to increase the number and quality of our product candidates. This includes investment into our proprietary technologies, which we'll discuss on the next slides. And we also have access to a suite of other technologies to our partners. This unique position allows us to bring only the products with the best potential through to development. So -- and so deep insight into antibodies and our proprietary platforms that has helped us to discover, build and/or design the 8 products that are currently approved. If all 8 approved products would be wholly owned by Genmab, we would have generated estimated revenue in 2023 of around $14 billion. And as we move toward a model in the future where we have 100% ownership of our products, we believe that we continue this track record of success and further solidify our position as a biotech innovation powerhouse. So let's now take a look at our technologies. We believe that our diverse technology platforms are a key to our success. Genmab has 4 proprietary antibody technology platforms and during -- including DuoBody and HexaBody. They allow us to select the most appropriate modality from our toolbox to tackle a specific disease targets. And of the 8 approved medicines that are based on our innovations, half of them are Duobody-based bispecifics. One of these bispecifics is epcoritamab, which was approved in 2023, as EPKINLY in the U.S. and Japan and as Tepkinly in Europe and the U.K. The approval of epcoritamab, which we are codeveloping and co-commercializing with AbbVie was an incredibly important milestone for patients in need of new innovative treatment options administered subcutaneously. And as a reminder, Genmab is the commercial lead for EPKINLY in both the U.S. and in Japan. This is a first for our company. We are pleased with how the launch is progressing so far. But the current approvals are only the first step to potentially establishing epcoritamab as the core therapy across Diffuse B cell lymphoma, follicular lymphoma and beyond. In June, we announced positive top line results from the follicular lymphoma cohort of the Phase I/II EPCORE NHL-1 trial. The data supported 2 exciting regulatory actions last year. The FDA has granted breakthrough therapy designation for epcoritamab for adult relapsed or refractory follicular lymphoma after 2 or more lines of systemic therapy. And the EMA has validated a type 2 variation application for epcoritamab in the same indication. And together with AbbVie, we are advancing a robust clinical development program for epcoritamab across B-cell malignancies. In addition to the data in follicular lymphoma, you can also see this in the multiple Phase III studies currently in the planning and that we anticipate will be initiated in this year. So let's move to the next slide for a brief look at the broad clinical development program for epcoritamab. Together with AbbVie, we have an ambitious vision for development of epcoritamab. In 2023, we have 3 ongoing Phase III studies, which you could see here on the slide. For '24, we aim to potentially double that number with the addition of new trials that you see here highlighted in purple. These include a new frontline study in follicular lymphoma as well as additional Phase III trials in relapse of a refractory Diffuse large B-cell lymphoma. And the encouraging data we have seen so far, including the data presented at the 2023 ASH conference in December, further support epcoritamab's combinability and highlight its potential to move into these earlier lines of therapy. The first Genmab medicine on the market was TIVDAK, which we are codeveloping and co-commercializing with Pfizer. The approval of TIVDAK in September 2021 introduced a critically needed treatment option for patients with advanced cervical cancer, with disease for progression on or after chemotherapy. And it represents a significant scientific advancements as the first and only ADC for treatment of -- in this patient population that was approved. With the positive results from both the confirmatory innovative TV 301 study in cervical cancer and the data in head and neck cancer from the innovative TV 207 study last year. TIVDAK has cleared a very high bar for continued investment and development, and we are very pleased with our plans to actively engage with health authorities on the next step for TIVDAK in both of these indications. And this week, we actually announced a [ week of ] priority review for the cervical cancer data released last year. So we are very excited about that, with a PDUFA date of May 9. This was press released yesterday. We are also investigating a number of promising investigational medicines in collaboration with BioNTech. The most advanced of these are the DuoBody-based bispecifics, acasunlimab, previously known as the GEN1046 and GEN1042. Both have the potential to be first-in-class in development for the treatment of solid tumors, and we are very excited about the data that we have seen so far. For acasunlimab, we are very pleased -- we were very pleased to announce in November last year that we have actually planned engagement with health authorities on the design of a pivotal trial in second-line non-small cell lung cancer, and that we would share the clinical data on which this decision was based on the medical conference in the first half of this year. In addition to maturing this program and also expanding it with the Phase II trial in endometrial cancer that was initiated last September. For GEN1042, we remain very encouraged by the clinical efficacy data we are seeing in multiple tumor types. And we anticipate that we will have the data. We need to determine next step for this program this year. The alliance of Genmab's expertise in antibody biology and development and biotechs immuno-oncology know-how creates a very powerful partnership. And we look forward to working together to advance all of our investigational medicines, including GEN1053, which is called HexaBody CD27 and next in the clinic in the coming time, GEN1059, which is standing for DuoBody-EpCAMx4-1BB. So the third 4-1BB targeted by specific program. And GEN1055 or HexaBody-OX40 and other Hexabody-based molecule. But it gets better. There are 3 additional Genmab-owned medicines in the clinic at this moment. First is GEN3014 or HexaBody-CD38, which we are developing in an exclusive worldwide license and option agreement with Janssen. GEN3014 was recognized at ASH in December last year, with a poster presentation on preliminary results from the expansion cohort at the recommended Phase II dose of the ongoing Phase I/II trial. We are actively enrolling now in the head-to-head trial with daratumumab, the gold standard in multiple myeloma, and we hope to have the data in the second half of this year. And we are very encouraged by what we are seeing. And as we have said previously, we anticipate the head-to-head data in the second half of '24. Looking at some of our earlier stage programs, the Phase I/II trial of GEN1047 or DuoBody-CD3xB7H4, is currently in the dose expansion phase. An important step in progressing our CD3-based bispecific platform in solid tumors. And GEN3017, our DuoBody-CD3xCD30, which you see here on the right, started recruitment for a first-in-human trial also last year. Our expanding and maturing pipeline is possible because of strategic investments in key areas: one, research. Building on a strong track record, we have actually have a state-of-the-art R&D facilities in both the Netherlands and in the U.S. And we continue to invest in new antibody technologies and next-generation therapeutic antibody formats, in addition to the 4 which we already have. Two, development. We are focusing on scaling up so that we can rapidly move from early to late-stage clinical development. We see significant potential to drive insights through data sciences. So we're investing very heavily in data sciences and an artificial intelligence right now. I believe that data science and real-time integration of translational research are key to accelerate product development in the future and to ensure the right therapies get to the right patients more effectively. And three, commercialization. We have a highly experienced team in place and now 2 successful launches with the approvals of EPKINLY and TIVDAK. Underpinning all of this is investment in key enabling functions to actually support growth and to manage risk. And this investment, we can do in part because of our strong recurring revenue streams from the 6 approved medicines that you see here on this slide. These medicines [ powering ] our technology and innovation, exemplify the commitment to applying world-class antibody expertise to create truly differentiated antibody therapeutics with the potential to fundamentally improve patients' lives. And the success of approved products also demonstrates the benefit of working collaboratively with strong partners, complementary with Genmab in terms of technologies, capabilities and knowledge across the whole innovation ecosystem of pharma, biotech and autotech and academia. 2024 is anticipated to become our 12th year of profitability, which is quite unique for a biotech company. The products on the market that we have discussed provide us with significant recurring revenue growth, and this growth lets us invest in our pipeline and our organization, allowing us to create significant long-term value and evolve for continued success. So this gives us a strong backbone of significant underlying profitability. In '23, Genmab made key strides towards meeting its 2030 vision, making for a transformative year in our company's history and our patient's care. But we are not resting on our laurels. 2024 is shaping up to be just as momentous, further establishing our independent destiny as a company and giving the people we help new ways to find disease. So now I will tell you how. We anticipate multiple approvals this year for epcoritamab. This DuoBody-based bispecific codeveloped with AbbVie, is Genmab's second company-owned product to hit the market, and we expect to receive European and U.S. approvals in follicular lymphoma in the second half of 2024. In the meantime, we look to file for approval in Japan in this indication in the first half of 2024. As I already mentioned, we will also make -- start of multiple Phase III trials with epcoritamab, with the goal of moving to earlier lines of therapy, and that's where we want to be. TIVDAK, our first company-owned therapy is ready to file with regulatory authorities in Europe and Japan for cervical cancer, in addition to the acceptance of the BLA this week in the U.S. And that will happen in the first half of this year, this filing. And we are engaging with health authorities and next steps in head and neck cancer. So we will broaden it from cervical cancer into other cancers now in the coming time. Promising data from GEN1046, now known as acasunlimab it's forthcoming in the first half of 2024, while we engage with health authorities planning for Phase III. Not far behind, we are eager to share data also for GEN1042 in 2024. This may include head and neck, and squamous and non-squamous cell lung cancer. As these programs -- as these programs progresses, we'll also be pushing forward with other promising programs, including data from GEN1047. You will see that data this year at a conference. Finally, we look forward to the highly anticipated results of the head to neck [indiscernible] trial or GEN3014. It gets a lot of attention right now versus DARZALEX FASPRO in the second half of this year. In summary, we have a laser-sharp strategy that will effectively drive us forward towards our 2030 vision. This vision will continue to act as our guiding light, anchored in our core purpose where we have the unstoppable team will improve the lives of patients through innovative and differentiated antibody therapeutics. Our first 2 Genmab-owned medicines on our own the markets, giving us a strong rationale to make focused investments to make the most of the opportunities ahead of us. And we will continue to be disciplined in our approach to this investment. We are confident that as we look to the future, we will see the realization of our continued evolution into a fully integrated biotech innovation powerhouse. We have never been in a better position to achieve our vision of transforming the lives of patients with cancer and other serious diseases. The best is yet to come. I think we are ready for Q&A, and I hope it will be lively and energizing.
Jan van de Winkel
executiveShould I stay there?
James Gordon
analystDo you want to bring any other members of management with you or?
Jan van de Winkel
executiveI mean Anthony is more welcome to join.
James Gordon
analystThanks very much for the presentation. And does anyone have a question in the audience they'd like to start with? In that case, I'll start this off, which would be HexaBody CD-38. Just how differentiated do you think this asset is shaping up to be versus DARZALEX? And my question will be on a few parameters, how does it look, if we try and compare efficacy, but also, are there any concerns on tolerability? Is there potentially a tolerability challenge here.
Jan van de Winkel
executiveSo HexaBody CD-38 is preclinically at least tenfold more active than daratumumab. This is like a miracle. I mean, daratumumab is one of the most active antibody therapeutics I've seen in the last 30 years, which is one of the reasons that it's actually doing so well in multiple myeloma now, James. HexaBody CD-38 preclinically is at least tenfold more active in some cases, many, many for more active than daratumumab. That's a completely different mechanism of action. So we're now testing about basically in patients after an [indiscernible] and after a proteasome inhibitor. It's a naive to CD-38 targeting molecules. And what we see actually in the most recent data in 9 valuable patients recently at ASH, the ASH conference that basically you see in 6 of the 9, really, really impressive responses, which is roughly double the response rate, which we've ever seen with monotherapy of daratumumab. So I think efficacy-wise, this clearly seems to be shaping up as being differentiated, albeit that this is a very small data set. And we need to abate, I think the [indiscernible] the data which will come this year. Then safety-wise, we believe that this is actually an antibody which we can very safely administer to patients. And I know there was actually some turmoil last year about some grade 5 events, which we announced in the abstract for that presentation at ASH. But there was one patient which was diagnosed with COVID, and we know that these patients with COVID infections in fact, that are patients with B-cell cancer with COVID have really trouble. You know that also from other companies. So that may actually explain that grade 5 event. There was a lot of patients with cardiac arrest. And we also know that basically, cardiac complications happen a lot in COVID. In fact, that individual, this patient was not tested for COVID, James, but it is actually not unlikely, because the expansion almost run during the pandemic that this patient was also infected with COVID virus. And then there was a bit more turbulence about the second patient with a Grade 4 cardiac problem among the expansion cohort patients at the ASH presentation. And we are not worried about that because the patient had a history of cardiac events. And plus the cardiac events actually happened at the cycle 8. So very far during the treatment, and that's not logical to link that to the medicine because then you would expect it to happen much earlier actually in the therapy. So answering your question, you can never exclude that this is a very safe molecule until you have done more data analysis change, but you're not overly worried about the safety pattern of HexaBody CD-38, and we are very impressed by the initial efficacy data. So we are very excited about that data set shaping up in the coming months.
James Gordon
analystAnd when you say shaping up in the current month, so what further data will we see from that study? And then when will we get data from the head-to-head study?
Jan van de Winkel
executiveI mean the data from the head-to-head study will very likely be visible in the second half of this year. And it all depends on how quickly we can recruit the 2 arms in the study. And we will give you an update, regular intervals on how far we are with the recruitment. Right now, we are on track to have all the head-to-head data in the second half of this year. And we will, of course, also follow the expansion cohort data in time. But of course, what we seem to see the taxable CD-38 have actually not only do the patients get into deep responses, the responses get better and better in time. And that's exactly what you would expect to happen with a well-working antibody therapeutic. So we will already update you also at some medical conference with further data from the expansion cohort in this year, we have not yet decided James about [indiscernible] well being.
James Gordon
analystAnd will the expansion cohort be just the same number of patients for longer? Or will there be further patients that will actually [indiscernible]?
Jan van de Winkel
executiveNo. The expansion cohort is only that same number of patients because we only needed that expansion cohort in order to get green light to do the head-to-head study. And the real value, I think, of the comparison will be to compare HexaBody CD-38 with the gold standard, which is [ subcu ].
James Gordon
analystAnd when we do get the head-to-head data, how robust do you think the initial data set is in terms of trying to extrapolate how much better the efficacy is because it's then DARZALEX, it's a single-arm study. Would you see -- we expect to see the same magnitude of differentiation in the Phase II? Or is that a bit too ambitious?
Jan van de Winkel
executiveI mean it's very difficult to predict until you have seen the data, James. I haven't seen the data. But what I can tell you is that in the expansion cohort arm, which is the data we are discussing now from ASH last year, patients were very heavily pretreated. [indiscernible] pretreated than 10 years earlier in the very first monotherapy data with daratumumab. Don't forget that some of these patients had already seen CAR T. Others have seen bispecifics, which are not even existing. And usually in cancer, once you actually get patients in later lines of therapy, which have been more heavily pretreated, they are more difficult to get into a response. Despite that, we saw roughly double the response rate a much deeper responses with HexaBody CD-38. In the new cohort, the head-to-head cohorts, they're very precisely stratified. And so now it's much easier to compare the potency of both therapeutic candidates. And I think actually, the expansion cohort data bodes quite well, but it's very difficult to predict, James, what will be the response rates there. But I would not be surprised whether it would be even better than what we see in the expansion cohort.
James Gordon
analystAnd so the -- with the caveats of cross-trial comparison, the data looks impressive, but is there still going to be a big role for CD-38 therapies in the future? I know J&J had an analyst meeting recently and they talked about some new therapies in multiple myeloma, including things like bispecifics, including yours and also CAR T therapy like [indiscernible]. So is there going to be a big role for CD-38 in 10 years' time?
Jan van de Winkel
executiveAbsolutely. And if you have listened carefully to Js&Js presentation, they also say that, well, in all of the combinations that you use the CD-38 targeting as a backbone, and no matter whether you're talking bispecific antibodies, next-generation [indiscernible] or even CAR-Ts, is going to be combined with the CD-38. And I think to actually have access to a much more bolt-on CD-38 next-generation molecule is hugely attractive, where you realize that the publicly stated ambition for J&J is to actually move towards a curative regimen for multiple myeloma, which is still the third most common blood cancer and still is incurable up to today. And don't forget that also not all patients at multiple myeloma responds to onto CD-38 antibody like daratumumab. And also other patients stop responding to an Anti CD-38. And one of the things with HexaBody CD38 does, it actually can kill tumor targets with lower levels of expression of CD38 and daratumumab can. So I think this is hugely interesting. Then the other more interesting question, I think, is, well, can you even do trials because when you look at the recent data from the PERSEUS trial, which is the DARA trial, which came up -- came up at ASH in December last year, the data is just phenomenal, like absolutely phenomenal and completely game-changing. The real question is about, well, practicability of doing trials because this already took years to get to the readout, 0.4 per size. You have an even more potent combination, you can in the future of Envision trials, which would take 10 years or 12 years before they can read out, which is probably impractical and not very good for patients, either because when you let them wait with the working mechanism that long. So I think what we need is a proactive, I think, action from the regulators to allow companies to actually use molecular end points earlier on in these frontline studies. And I think multiple myeloma is probably one of the best possible areas where you can use a molecular endpoint like MRD negative to the [indiscernible] degree because we have shown in multiple daratumumab studies now together with Janssen that deep MRD activity does correlate with both PFS and thus correlated overall survival in a very, very stringent way. So I think it depends now is back to the regulators, I think, to really dream up for the future with these more and more potent regimens. How you can actually basically stimulate companies to do new combinations. And I think what we should all try to do is actually make better therapies for patients. I'm super proud that daratumumab is now already benefiting the lives of at least 450,000 patients as per Q3 last year and I hope that, that number goes up steeply over the coming time. Because in that way, you really improve the lives of those patients and the family members of those patients and I think create a better world. And I think that's, in the end, the goal for our company to actually do our work so that we can actually not only get better treatments to patients, but also create a happier and better world and a good return on your investments for all the investors who are smiling here now in the room.
James Gordon
analystAnd if all goes the way you hope it was, so the Phase II head-to-head looks good and the FDA are receptive to doing a sort of trial design that you think would be good. Roughly what sort of time line could the product be on the market?
Jan van de Winkel
executiveI think it's difficult to predict. Let's assume that we have the data this year from the head to hand that Janssen would opt in because they need, I think another CD38 targeting molecule with better potency than the current gold standard. Let's assume that we see a difference in how the agencies actually deal with frontline combinations. I mean there was a lot of discussion on this frontline program now, which is contemplated by the FDA, where the FDA would allow a sponsor to use molecular endpoints actually to use one trial where you add a new agent to a frontline regimen, which is probably going to be VRD. I think based on the PERSEUS data, which is the most bolted and then use a molecular endpoint for the conditional approval, you could potentially see that it will take a few years to recruit this trial, because Janssen will very likely power it very sufficiently to make the chances optimal, that they will actually see a difference in an already very actively active combination of therapy. So I think it would take at least 3, 4 years. I think before you would -- but then you could potentially under that assumption, James, you could potentially have it in frontline. This is where 50% of the patients are, which could be very, very impactful, I think.
James Gordon
analystAnd so it's a big decision, and it would have a significant impact on Genmab. Does J&J's decision to opt in or not opt in, change how you do anything else with the business?
Jan van de Winkel
executiveI mean this is -- what we are now doing is trying to facilitate that we get the data as quickly as possible. And as I just described in my presentation, Genmab has no shortage of programs. I mean, we have an amazing pipeline now of 9 proprietary clinical programs. You will soon have 11 programs. And the goal for this year is to move a number of those programs into Phase III, and we have a very good chance that we can do that then and then maximize the potential of those product candidates and potentially stop other programs, James, or maybe even license them out to partners. And we are not interested in upfront monies, because we are very well capitalized now. We have north of [ $3 ] billion, which I showed in my presentation and no debt, so we can actually put significant firepower behind the development of some of these molecules. But we would like a potential partner to invest their money and their resources into developing product candidates and then give us an option on 50% co-ownership once the molecule works. So what you will see is, I think, us focusing on 2 or 3 of these programs, which we hope and have determined as [indiscernible] and then maximize the attention there because that is the best way to create more value. I mean that's what we all learnt in biotechnology. Once you have a winner, you can actually build much easier big value like daratumumab shows by expanding the potential of that, whether than to wait on the next window. So what we are doing now is as rigorously as possible, like zoom in on the [ vendors ] on the candidate [ vendors ] and then expand the program like we're doing with EPKINLY right now. Because this is only the beginning of the program, we have now shown you today for EPKINLY is only part of the program because we already envisaging other combinations, also novel-novel combinations here in different B-cell cancers, because I think that's what we want to do. We want to actually really push the treatment of B-cell cancers into a completely new space, basically that -- with EPKINLY as the base.
James Gordon
analystThank you. And we've bought Anthony with us as well. So CFO of Genmab. So my question for you would be OpEx. So OpEx has grown somewhere between 30% and 50% in the last couple of years. There's been quite a lot of investment in all this pipeline Jan has been talking about. Is that set to continue? Is there a lot more you need to invest in this year and in subsequent years? And what are the moving parts around that.
Anthony Pagano
executiveYes. So as we got into 2023, we gave our guidance in February of last year, we were super clear about our investment priorities and really quantified that year-over-year growth. And at the same time, last February, very carefully articulated what the transition in terms of our investment levels look like moving forward, and particularly really putting a finer point on the key drivers of investment as we transition from 2023 into 2024. And we've been reiterating those messages consistently throughout the entire year and really went through it again on our Q3 earnings call. But let me just take a minute and unpack that here for you and for the audience. So we think about our business and we think about maybe our overall investment, put it into 2 key categories: R&D and then SG&A. If you think about R&D and really zooming in on the R or the discovery, you looked at that sort of part of our business a couple of years ago and concluded it was an underutilized asset. So we materially scaled up their investment there in terms of really unleashing the power of that discovery engine. That R part of our business or discovery is now reaching a place where that investment will certainly more significantly moderate here, as we move from 2023 into 2024. And moving forward, the composition can change, but the investment level and the quantum is now getting to a place where we think it's at the right level. On the development side, we've been really clear here the swing factor is going to be new Phase IIIs. We've been very clear that epcoritamab is absolutely in growth mode here. We took the opportunity at our post ASH conference to highlight the 3 new Phase III trial. So we now have 6 Phase III trials that are up and running for epcoritamab. Now beyond that, what we highlighted was that the swing factor for '24 would be new Phase IIIs. And here on our Q3 earnings call, pending regulatory feedback, we announced our intention to start a new Phase III or a first Phase III for 1046 in the post-IO space, second-line lung cancer and also potentially, again, pending regulatory feedback, a Phase III trial in second-line head and neck cancer for TIVDAK. So there, I think moving forward, the point is that incremental investment in R&D is really going to be focused on potentially revenue-generating Phase III, which I think is good news for our investors. Now if we quickly unpack SG&A. Here, again, if you look at that as 2 distinct investments. First, G&A. As Jan highlighted, when we scaled up our business and here to give you a proxy for that scale up was, we had 547 people at the end of 2019. This year, we're going to exit 2023 with some multiple of that, was somewhere in the mid-2000s. We are to make important investments in G&A to support the growth and manage risk. I'd say, to a large degree, those investments are now in the rearview mirror. So we're really focused on driving that G&A number and keeping it at the level it's at today or have moderate very moderate growth. Now to complete the story, on the S side selling or commercialization. Here, we've highlighted 2 key markets that we wanted to build out as we entered into commercializing our products. And here was the United States and Japan. And you know what, thank God, James, we made those investments because you can see how it's proven out in the performance so far with TIVDAK. And here as we've been competing very vigorously with EPKINLY in the marketplace. Now as we transition to 2024, the driver of the growth is really going to be the annualization impact of the investments we've made. Now there you should be thinking about the U.S. launch for EPKINLY being in May, as well as the launch for EPKINLY in Japan coming later in the year in November. So it will be a much more significant annualization impact. But the net is really if we step back, that we have a really focused, disciplined bottom-up approach to investment, we're really now focused on allocating the incremental investment into these potentially revenue-generating Phase IIIs. And we won't shy away from making those investments if it makes sense to do. So hopefully, that gives you a nice picture. And the final message, I think, just to wrap up, this has been entirely consistent. If we zoom back, I said, you can go back with the transcript from last February, and I bet it's 95% the same message. So hopefully, that helps.
James Gordon
analystThank you for the consistent message. We're almost out of time, there's lots of pipeline I can ask about. But maybe one earlier project. I think Jan, you mentioned CD3xB7H4. And so that's Phase I data. And I don't believe we've seen any data for that before. So what are we going to see for that? And am I right? That's an unpartnered asset, so what might you do with that?
Jan van de Winkel
executiveSo this is a very exciting T-cell engagers for the treatment of solid tumors. And that has been very difficult. I mean CAR-T or T cell engagers for solid cancers have not been very successful until now. And we are seeing very encouraging signals with -- in the dose escalation. We've done a mix of different tumors, I think, at least 10 different cancers. And we have now reached the optimal dose. From that, we can conclude the code change that we have seen signals there during the dose escalation. And that was also safe to give. That's a bispecific T-cell engager. And we used a very unique composition of that engager. We have not yet disclosed with uniqueness of that engager with B7-H4, gets more and more popular. The ADC concepts also other T-cell engager concept with this one doing particularly well. So you will see the whole all of data from the dose escalation. You're right now doing a dose expansion at the optimal dose. And then we actually play a bit more about the dose in order to -- when we continue to be enthusiastic about the data. What you probably need in the context of the FDA Optimus program is different dose variations and more data there, so that the FDA is convinced that you've actually given the lowest possible dose which is active and efficacious to patients so that you are allowed to move to a pivotal study. So this year, you will see the data from the dose escalation study, maybe some initial data from the expansion cohort data. We have not yet zoomed in on a specific cancer or cancers data to change to really focus our attention for future developments. But I can tell you there's a lot of interest already from pharma companies and other companies on the [indiscernible] that we will actually show data this year. And we have not yet decided what to do with the program. We could actually hold on to it ourselves. But as I said, well, this key strategy for the company is to zoom in on 2 or 3 winners. And it depends on how the other programs will fit within this year. I think we have some very good candidates. Our pipeline has a higher quality than we ever had before. History of one of the best track records in biotech and creating new products, we have described that today. Unprecedented track record and I think we're getting better and better on it. So this is definitely a nice candidate. And you will see data this year at a medical conference.
James Gordon
analystGreat. Thank you very much. I can see we're now out of time. So thanks very much.
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