Goldplat PLC (GDP) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Goldplat PLC Investor Presentation. [Operator Instructions] The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company can review all questions submitted today, and we'll publish those responses where it's appropriate to do so on the Investor Meet Company platform. Before we begin, I would like to submit following poll, which will just appear on your screens now. And I would now like to hand you over to CEO, Werner Klingenberg. Werner, good afternoon, sir.

Well, good evening, Jake, out of South Africa. I must say it's good to be with you again. It's good to talk to investors and potential investors again tonight. Yes, so I think, I mean, I'll jump straight into it. I think in the benefit of those that's not too familiar with Goldplat, I think I will start on Slide 5 and maybe just explain to everyone exactly what Goldplat is and also who we are not. I think -- we are trading under the mining sector on AIM, and we have been in mining in the past. But I think it's important to understand that Goldplat's focus is more around providing services to the mining industry, current active mining as well as historic mining, and we look at basically recovering value or recovering gold mainly from byproducts or material left behind by historical mining. We've got operations in South Africa. We've got operations in Ghana where we process the material we receive from different types of clients. We also source material out of South America. So we've got sourcing focused on Africa as well as South America at this point in time, and our clients is actually quite diverse. Majority of our clients, obviously, the current clients on the byproduct side, is your blue-chip big gold mining groups. In Africa, we're finding that some of those bigger groups are selling some of the lower assets to smaller companies or operators, which is also clients of ours. In South Africa, we also do a little bit of PGMs at this point in time. And then if we look at the historical mining industry, we get material from either current clients that has footprints that needs to be cleaned up or even old mine sites where there's landowners that still has material on their premises that's been left behind by mining industry. We remove this material and we process it through our sites in South Africa and then in Ghana. And as explained, I mean, that material we get can vary quite significantly. In the end, what we focus on is whether it's either gold-bearing or PGM-bearing and whether we can process it profitably or economically through our current setup. We do a lot of work in terms of material we receive to see if we can upgrade and make material economical through different ways and means. And I think that is where our benefit to the market is. We've got quite the diverse processes where we process this material through. As you'll see on the slide, the material we process is either fine carbons, which is used in the primary mining sector to recover the gold from the ore; the mill liners, that is obviously used to mill the ore fine and to liberate the gold. We also produce woodchips specifically in South Africa where it comes from underground pillar support. If you then go down the list, you see more of the stuff where it's after operations, plant cleanups, surface sources, where you've got old mine sites and there's been runoff and either play areas has been contaminated or certain rock dumps was left behind either as waste material that still contain gold. And we then process that material. Through our circuits, in South Africa, we have got carbon and lead circuits. If you don't understand what exactly that is, please ask a question and I'll address that towards the end. But it's basically the main process currently being applied in the gold mining industry in terms of recovering gold from low-grade surface sources. We also then have various screening incinerating units as well as gravity units that we use to also recover value from the material we receive from the primary mining industry. In Ghana, that is all we focus on. We only focus on primary mining clients. We don't get historical material that we process through CIL circuits. There, we only apply CI gravity methods, screening and a few other, to actually generate the concentrates that we then either sell to the smelters in Europe or in South Africa or we then generate a gold bullion bar through [ dilution ] and smelting process, and that we then send to refineries in South Africa as well. So I think that's sort of in a nutshell what we currently do. We are not in mining. We don't have a resource as a normal mining client does have. Our resource is basically the clients that we've got in the industry, the relationship we've built up over the last 20 years, and the ability we have to process that material. And we'll talk a little bit more about that later. If we then jump more towards the beginning of the slides, you'll see that we are a cash-generative business from an operating point of view. I'll take you a bit through the cash flow of the last financial period towards the end, and we are focusing on recovering value, as I've indicated from the previously mined material. We've got quite a big geographical reach. Our clients is spread around Africa and South America. We get strong supply reach based out of South America as well, specifically out of Argentina, out of Brazil. We have received material out of Peru before. In Africa, currently, we're getting material out of the Ivory Coast, Ghana, DRC and also then obviously in South Africa. We've received material out of Mali, Sudan, Tanzania in the past. So one aspect that I also would like to explain is that because we're working in different countries, in terms of moving the material, we're working with material that's gold-bearing, obviously, it's not just about engaging with clients. It's also about engaging with governments to make sure they're comfortable with our transparent processes to be able to handle that material transparently for their own comfort, to make sure the gold isn't siphoned out of their countries without their knowledge. And we've built up quite a clear process, and we work closely together with governments in Africa specifically where we take material across border, and it has worked quite successfully in the past. So if we then look at the metals we're trading in, we're trading mainly in gold, as I say. We do a bit of PGMs in South Africa, and we're looking at ways of expanding that. And I think if we look at the team we've got in South Africa, in the last period, we've appointed the CFO and the COO as well. COO is a metallurgist. And both of them has got more than 20 years of experience in operating mines in Africa. And we look at the whole of the Board a bit later. And then we have, as most of you are aware, obviously, the TSF in South Africa, that we've built up through the processing of our material, through our CIL, that still contains around 82,000 ounces of gold. And that's per JORC-compliant resource done in 2016. Since then, we probably put around 800,000 tonnes additional onto that dump. So there's about 2.2 million tonnes there. And once we've have certainty around the economics and how we're going to process it, again, we'll talk about that now, we'll probably will then update that resource as well and share that with the market. If we then quickly look at our key data, I think I've indicated we've been listed since 2006. The company has been probably operating for more than 20 years. We're currently trading at a share price of 6p. It's a market cap roughly of GBP 10 million. We'll look at the income statement later, but that's on a profitability of roughly GBP 3 million. So at the moment, our price earning ratio is just between 3% and 4%, trading actually quite low. And as you can see on that share price graph, that has been coming down quite significantly. Since March, it actually topped around December at around 12p. Then the Board, as I discussed, Gerard Kemp, who is our Non-Executive Chairman, he's been in the industry for a very long time. Started off in mining, went into investment banking. He's got a lot of experience, and he's still quite active in the industry through his consulting business. You've got myself as CEO. Then we've got 2 shareholders, the one in the subsidiary, although he's got some shares on the top as well, then our major shareholder, Martin Ooi, on the Board. Martin Ooi's got 28.8% of the business. And then Gerard Kisbey-Green, same as Gerard Kemp, has always been in the industry. He's a mining engineer. He went into investment banking. He's got years, multiple years, of experience. So I think the Board is quite strong. I've already discussed the appointment of Douglas and Brent in the prior year. And I think with their support, there's a lot of value that can still be created inside of Goldplat. We've already gone through Slide 4. If we then move to Slide 5, I think the thing to realize is that, I mean, Goldplat actually plays quite a unique role within the industry. Obviously, it's extremely important for us to make sure the way we source the material is responsible. To do so, we follow the LBMA responsible gold guidance. We're not a member of them, but we do follow their guidance and we get audited on a biannual basis by an accredited audit firm to just check that we are following the necessary controls. But apart from making sure that our sourcing is responsible, we also believe that we play quite an important role in the circular economy from an environmental perspective. But if you look at the circular economy, the one thing that's always explained, obviously, you've got the extraction to start with. You've got the recovery of that metal. You've got the manufacturing into a product. You've got the product being used. And then that product needs to be recycled. But the reality is in the extraction phase, in the manufacturing phase, in the product generation phase, there will always be waste being generated. And Goldplat plays the role of taking that waste, making sure we extract value out of it to ensure that whatever extraction happened at the beginning, maximum recovery comes from that. And that's basically the role we play. And we believe, from an environmental perspective, we provide quite a good economical solution to industry. If we then just -- in a nutshell, I think this is more just indicating our constant performance over the last 5 years. Although it is fluctuating, the important thing is as we've been managing to achieve profitability from our recovery businesses. In June 2019 and 2020, we still had some mining operations or discontinued mining operations in our income statement. This has been stripped out here. So it's only reflecting the recovery business. And as you can see, we've been continuously generating profits out of this business. And I believe that sort of indicates our ability to continue to generate profits in the future and providing services to the mining industry because, in the end, where our resources and where our ability is to process is to be able to deliver the services required to industry. If we then go and look at the split between where we're currently operating, you've got a picture there of the gold recovery plant in South Africa, with the CIL circuits and our cyanide tank in the front. And you can see in the past year, we've done GBP 3.3 million operating profit in South Africa; and in the gold recovery business, GBP 2.8 million. So currently, our profitability between the 2 subsidiaries actually are split quite evenly, resourcing material out of Africa, resourcing material out of South America. We'll talk about how we're looking at diversifying the business a little bit later. But I guess, the key is that -- our main focus is on making sure our primary business, our stronghold for the last 20 years, is where we want to be. And that, in the end, is maximizing value out of South Africa and Ghana. So talking about that and maybe introducing Gold Recovery Ghana a little bit better. We've got -- the key focus in South Africa is sustainability of sourcing material. As I've indicated, that's where our business start, is making sure we've got optimal material. If we look at the sustainability of sourcing in South Africa, that remains our main focus. I think we're covering basically all the major producers in South Africa's material, apart from one. And that is where our main focus is, is to get the other major player in South Africa's material that will really assist us in terms of creating additional sustainability in South Africa. From a byproduct's point of view, I think it's important to understand, in South Africa, we basically have three major type of material, two of it is being generated by the current mining industry and then one is being generated by -- was generated in the past. So that is byproducts, it's woodchips and then it is contaminated surface sources. Now if we look at byproducts and woodchips that are being produced by the current industry, each of those basically adds roughly, depending on the quarter, 30% to our operating profitability. So the current client supports the woodchips and the byproducts, whereby then on the low-grade surface sources, we already have secured quite a significant amount of material that's on site, which is roughly 1.5 to 2 years of material. And we've got an agreement with DRD of material for another 2.5 years, taking us more than 4 years of material that's available for processing through our low-grade circuit, which is encouraging. And then the rest, obviously, we need to support by continuous proper service delivery relationships and the contracts that's in place. Now if I spoke a little bit about diversifying, in South Africa, we're looking at -- obviously, South Africa is quite a minerals-rich country, and our current focus is on PGM. It has been for a long time. We are doing material and PGMs. We're not looking at low-grade material. There's a few companies in South Africa already looking at tailings from the chrome industry or the PGM industry for processing. We look more to any waste or byproducts being generated by the PGM industry to add value there. We've done the investment that you're aware of in a company, Green Coal Technology, that's got technology to recover fine coal of old slurry dumps. Our interest there was basically twofold. One is some of the technology we're actually currently also using in our gold recovery operation and getting the value for what we've invested into that plant from that. And secondly, we're also looking for an opportunity where you've got a bigger resource availability. We reach -- obviously, from the tons and tons of fine coal slurry that's available in South Africa, we see that there is a potential opportunity. But that, we're still investigating. We will inform the market if we get to a point where we believe this will be economical, but this is still very much in the process of evaluation. As indicated, some money has been invested into a PGM flotation plant but that is more than 2 years ago, and we're also utilizing that on the gold side. Then I've already spoken about the tailings facility. On the tailings facility side, we've identified an optimal route for processing the tailings facility. I think what is important to understand, and I'm not sure if everybody is aware of it, I mean, firstly, 2 million tonnes of materials, quite a significant amount of tonnes. The grade is around 1.78 grams a tonne. The recovery is obviously lower than what you'll find. It's already been processed. We're working with a refractory ore to start with, and the material that's not been recovered through our initial processes is not necessarily that easy to liberate and to recover afterwards. So we will need to process it at quite a significant volume to be able to create economical environment whereby the cost per tonne is of such price to process it. Now if you start processing at that volume, you need a bigger plant. Apart from that, you also then need quite a bigger tailings facility to be able to deposit it on. Now the easiest for us to do this was to rather send this material to a third-party that's already got a big facility, that's already got a tailings facility to process, and that's why we've engaged with DRD in terms of processing it through their plant. At this moment, I think there is a pipeline that DRD is in the process of constructing closer to where we are. And then there is -- I can't remember the kilometers, but there's still an area where we need to get final water use license approval. That process is in place, as we've indicated in the annual report as well. And I hope that there is going to be some movement in the next quarter or so where we can start putting proper time lines around all of this to the market, and the market will then have comfort in terms of what will happen when, but it's definitely progressing quite well over the last 6 months. Then we have constructed additional TSF in South Africa that gives us roughly 6 years of capacity. That is still in the commissioning phase, close to completion now. And that is really what gave us the ability to look at our old TSF and say, well, how are we going to process this. If there's any more questions around that, happy to answer towards the end. If we then look at the Gold Recovery Ghana operation, it is quite different than South Africa. The focus there is only on primary mining. We get mainly fine carbon sludges. We also do get lower-grade material like mill liners. We also get some other [ screened material ] that's still containing gold that we process. And again, what is important maybe at this point in time to highlight, we get a lot of different material, and the contract terms for all of that material also differ quite significantly. High-grade material, our margins is quite low. Our payment terms is less. It's obviously more important in terms of the cash holdup that we'll see on the balance sheet that, that creates. Then if you look at the lower-grade material, there's not that amount of gold in that material. It doesn't necessarily drive the turnover, but it's a lot more profitable, or gross profit on it is a lot higher, and the amount of cash you need to invest on day 1 is a lot lower just because the value of it is a lot lower. And that also then results in the fluctuation that you will see sometimes from year-to-year, quarter-to-quarter, in our operating margins is that, depending on how many high-grade material we process, there will be a big fluctuation on our GP margins. So our plant has the capacity to handle a sufficient amount of material, and it's really -- I think we've got -- I won't say we've got extra capacity, but we always have more capacity to handle material in process of we're close to finalizing the flotation plant that we've spoken about. And the flotation gravity circuit is mainly just there to try and maximize the recoveries from the tails of some of the material we've processed in the past, and we believe we'll be able to generate quite good value out of that for a year or 2 and then to process material as we generate it in the future. The focus has always been in South -- in Ghana on sourcing. Whether it's in South America or whether it's in West Africa, it's all about relationships. And it's all about relationships not just with the clients but also with the governments, as I explained earlier. We've got good feet on the -- through the first 6 months out of Ivory Coast, which is encouraging, and it seems like that will continue. We've got some good amount of material coming out of South America as well, out of Argentina, so that is quite positive. The challenge to growth remains obviously being able to increase our reach into the different countries. There is other gold mining destinations in Africa that we're also trying to open up. Some of them do have certain policies that it requires only bullion to be exported but we believe we're making good headway there. And in the interim, we're still getting decent amount of material to support Ghana into the future as well. In South America, we are looking at putting or buying land there. I think the first thing for us is just to [ keep abreast ] in South America, which is important. We've been there for more than 5 years. We've seen successful results. We do see a lot of low-grade material that you can't ship economically to Ghana that will be available. And we would like to provide a fuller solution to the mining industry in South America whereby we can assist them with lower-grade material as well as the high-grade material. But the reality is we'll do it exactly the same as what we've done in Ghana, in the sense that we will start off very slowly. We will sort of memorize our investment as to what we'd acquire at that point in time. We probably will not build a full Ghana plant there. We will start maybe only building screening. From the screening we might add incineration. And so we will move on until we build up a plant. So the intention is not to invest a lot of our own cash flow there straight away. If we look at the financial results over the last year, it has been a challenging year. I think there's a few things that's impacted us. The one thing has been, obviously, the loadshedding that we're experiencing in South Africa. We also had some delays, well, it actually became quite significant delays, at one of our smelters in Europe. Most of that value now has been received. And then we also had a delay on our gold license towards the end of the previous financial period in Ghana, which delayed the export of material to Europe, and that resulted in significant working capital lockup in inventory as well as in debtors, as you will see, if I go to the balance sheet now. But it also impacted the turnover number there, which I believe could have even been higher. But also our gross profits, specifically the loadshedding has had an impact on that where we couldn't run continuously, as we usually do in South Africa. We probably lost between 20% to 25% since almost February last year, so it's almost a year later. But even though, we still managed to do decent profit from operating activities of GBP 4.3 million. Again, if you compare that to our current market cap of GBP 10 million, I think there's still a lot of value inside of Goldplat. Our P/E is at 3.6p on the back of basic earnings, a share of GBP 1.67 against the share price of 6p. So I still believe that's quite encouraging. On the balance sheet, you can clearly see the lockup that I've explained, trade and other receivables moving from GBP 10 million to GBP 29 million. And then we've got, basically, net working capital lockup of roughly GBP 7.8 million as well. And I think if we look at mainly the working capital lockup of GBP 7.8 million, it's basically our current assets less our current liabilities that we're looking at. We've got -- most of that value is -- well, about GBP 3 million of that value is sitting in cash. Then the rest of it will mainly be then in lower-grade material as well as in debtors and inventory. I think what you'll see is that we utilize a brief financing entity that assist us in terms of when we ship material, they prefinance us of the material base on the bill of lading on the way to the smelter. So although we haven't had the final sale concluded and payment from the smelter, we do get a lot of value from them, and that assists us in terms of being able to pay clients. And at the moment, we do have situations where we get material, we pay the client, and then we're waiting for the final settlement from the smelter later on. This has been necessitated because we're operating a South America processing in Africa whereby, obviously, people want to see some cash flowing sooner and not wanting to wait the full term of 6 to 9 months before the final value is being generated. We also have the same situation in Africa where material is being moved cross-border and the client wants to see some security in terms of cash flow earlier. If we then look at the cash flow quickly, I think what -- for me, in this case, what's important that I want to highlight is just that, in the year, we've been able to generate, again, operating cash flow of roughly GBP 3.3 million. And that has been taken up in the last financial year by capital spend of GBP 1.9 million. You can see that's almost GBP 1 million up from the previous year of GBP 550 million, and that was driven because of the construction of the new tailings facilities in South Africa, which is completed now. Furthermore, our payments on interest-bearing borrowings was GBP 1 million higher than the previous period. That related to 1.5 years ago, we did a deal with the minorities in South Africa where we bought back roughly 17% of their shares because they wanted to sell it, and we believe we saw the value in buying back their shares. We're currently paying back the debt. The good news is there's roughly GBP 800,000 left on that debt and then that cash flow requirement will disappear. We, however, do have some cash flow that still will need to be paid. We're spending around GBP 1 million on generators that will be installed, I think we've indicated to the market by end of January. To be able to have a backup as a result of the fluctuation in electricity supply in South Africa, we have decided to invest that money to have that ability to switch on as and when we require, and we'll keep the market up to date to that. But I mean, the way we see it is that we have a significant amount of lockup that we are starting to see releasing during the first half of 2024, which will obviously give us a bit more of a stable base in clarity. We're seeing some of the capital falling away and some of these interest-bearing borrowings also coming to an end. Not that it's a lot in terms of our current balance sheet, it's less than 10% of our capital employed. So we should be in a position where we've got a clearer view of cash flow and looking at the ways we can potentially distribute that to shareholders, and I'll talk about that a little bit later. So in summary, our strategic focus remains on sustainability of sourcing material and the recovery operations that I've indicated more than once now. I think what is important also is that also license to operate is key for us and strategic. We've seen in the last year how that can hamper you, even sort of the impact in delays we had around the TSF; also had an impact on the group in one way or another. So first get to sustainability of sourcing material, making sure our license to operate is secured as much as possible. We've spoken about continuing our market efforts in West Africa and South America. We've spoken about increasing commodity diversity. But if I need to go and rank this, obviously, I'll put the increase of production through the processing of our TSF on top of that and then returning surplus cash flow to shareholders, I'll put even above that, in the sense that we are looking at, as a Board, to make sure that where we extract value through our processes in the industry that we operate, which can sometimes fluctuate, we want to make sure we distribute value to shareholders where we can. And obviously, long term, we also want to look at ways of making use of our skill to expand the business and to create a business that's a bit more diversified where the sustainability is obviously even more secured. Yes. I said quite a lot now. I think, Jake -- I'm sure there's still a few questions, maybe things I haven't addressed, but I'm happy to take that now. And sorry for the disruption in the middle.

Perfect, Werner. Thank you very much indeed for your presentation this afternoon. If I may, I will just bring back up your camera there. [Operator Instructions] But just while the team take a few moments to review those questions that were submitted already, I would like to remind you that a recording of this presentation, along with a copy of the slides and the published Q&A can be accessed via your invested dashboard. Werner, as you can see there in the Q&A tab, we have received a number of questions that were both submitted throughout your presentation this afternoon as well as those that were presubmitted ahead of today's events. So if I may, just hand back to you, just to read out those questions and give your responses where it's appropriate to do so. And then I'll pick up from you at the end.

Okay. Thank you, Jake. I see the questions has moved a bit. I'm going to start from the top as I see it here. I think the first question is, when will shareholders find out about the financial details of the TSF on the DRD deal? A very, very important question. If I was a shareholder, that would have been on top of my mind as well. As indicated previously, I mean, it's down to two things. The one is obviously the water use license. The second one is actually the most important one. Even if we don't have a water use license, but we have fixed commercials with DRD, we can communicate that, saying it's subject to. So the most important thing is around getting the final commercials with DRD finalized. There is definitely engagement. There's definitely movements there, but if we could provide clearer guidelines we would have. But yes, I think it's definitely progressing. Then the next question is quite a long question. I'm going to try and summarize it. I think it basically comes down to saying, well, we've got quite a niche, complicated business that requires different types of plant and machinery and what is basically our plans around Brazil. And I'm going to add the second question as well, what is our plan around coal. And I think through the presentation, I tried to make sure that -- I think the one thing maybe out of the RMS, you tend to list a lot of different things. So you list 10 points, 2 of those points, one will be crystal, one will be coal. So 20% of what is in the RMS might reflect the opportunity around diversification. I think the important thing to note is that our focus is on maximizing the extraction of value from our current operating assets as a start. Without that, we can't do anything else. I mean that's partly why we've got Douglas this year joined us as well, focusing specifically around the operations of these circuits and primarily for us will then remain the tailings facility and also just securing our base feed of material. So I think the question goes down to how much cost are we going to invest. We will invest the amount of money that we believe, at that point in time, we can justify that we will be able to return to investors on a short to medium term. So I think at the moment, we are not looking at a lot. In Brazil, it's GBP 103,000, GBP 120,000 for a piece of land, then we'll do the second assessment. If we then look at the coal, we've done investments. Maybe there's another GBP 25,000 to GBP 50,000 that might need to be invested to test whether we can get -- we're comfortable with the recovery on the fine coal before we do make further investments. I think it's important to say that, however, for both of those, we still believe it's encouraging. It's quite a good opportunity to find ways of saying, well, we've got the ability to extract value from these type of resources. Let's see if we can do it in other commodities. Let's see if we can do it in other jurisdictions. I think there's value in terms of what we're trying to do, but we're definitely not going to throw our whole business or the firm behind that. Is there a possibility of dividends? I think I tried to answer the question, but probably not from that angle. I think in the end, the company's sitting on GBP 3 million cash. The value of the company is GBP 10 million. We traded at 12p. We moved down to 6p. I think it's quite -- again, a good question from the shareholders to ask is to say, well, if we're not seeing the share price increasing, are we going to see some value being returned for us. You are profitable. And the reality is, over the last 18 months, we had a few things that happened. It was obviously the lockup due to material at the smelter. The loadshedding created uncertainty that made visibility quite difficult in terms of decision-making sometimes. Then you also have the situation around the licensing that we needed to get through. So once one or two of those stuff is stabilized, our intention is definitely to look at how we can distribute value to shareholders. And then I think the one question, again, is why we're going into coal, is this not a resource too far. Again, I mean, we got involved for more than one reason to start with, I think the intention would have been again to establish something where we could recover value on a low capital base, which is important. We don't have plans to go and invest into something that's more than our market cap. And we believe that we can see good value from that, and more importantly, big resources that is visible, can be quantified, which is something maybe that's hampering our share price at this point in time because our resources is basically on relationships and it's something that I think the shareholders sometimes find difficult to evaluate. So there is that sort of complement that the fine coal processing will definitely bring to Goldplat PLC. Can we get an update on the generators, please? I think I spoke about what the plans around that is. And if there's any additional changes, we probably will definitely make that in our quarterly update. Could you provide an operational and financial update for the latest quarter end of December? I think normally, we bring that -- we release the quarterly results towards last week, first week following the quarter end. And we're definitely working on that and looking forward to share that information with you. Is the 800,000 tonnes of additional material on the TSF since JORC of the same grade on the existing TSF? Obviously, we haven't determined what the grade on that material is, it's the same type of material we processed and that we've deposited there. But yes, we definitely added 800,000 tonnes of material onto that TSF. I think I've indicated -- another question around the digital generators. I think I've handled that. Is DRD handling the pipeline application? Yes, that's under their guidance, and they're doing the submission, and they also got the necessary servitude for the pipelines in place. So if we look at the question around the Kilimapesa smelter royalty, I think we've got it valued at -- net present value in our financial statement is roughly around GBP 600,000. If you look at the performance of Kilimapesa and Caracal, at the moment, there is not a lot of that -- sorry, I say $3 million. I'm talking about $1.5 million. That was the total -- transaction value was $3 million. So the $1.5 million is shown in our books roughly at GBP 600,000 and that receivable will probably happen over a long time. It's only a 1% net royalty. And currently, I think the production in Caracal, at the rate, it probably will take some time, if there's not a lot of additional expansion. But I think we did mention all the variables around that inside the annual report that is on our website. Has the selling of the TSF to DRD being considered? I think in the end, there is a lot of things that you need to evaluate before you can move this type of assets. And we are willing to consider anything if we believe in the end it's to the value of the shareholder, whether it is getting money sooner, whether it's dealing with certain uncertainties and risk in the future, we will definitely look at that. But as I've indicated, we are in discussion with them. And hopefully, we'll be able to share more to the market soon. Okay, some questions. Then there's questions around, obviously, the high receivables and payables due to refinery delays. It wasn't just the refinery delays, it was also partly due to refinery delays, we couldn't export some material. And then we also had the situation with the license in Ghana that impacted it as well. And then thirdly, we also had value sourcing where we had high value coming in but we couldn't move that quickly enough. All of that, in the end, impacted on that high balances. The balances has definitely come down. It's definitely reduced. We have received volumes, good volumes, also in the first half of this period. So I think in terms of normalized once we actually release the first half figures, you'll be able to have a clear indication around that. And we'll also see if we can give you a bit more guidance when we do quarter 2 operating update. Okay. What guidance can we expect for financing costs associated with the extended refining pipeline? I think that information will be shared also in the quarterly updates once we finalize figures. Then there's a question again around share buybacks and returning value. Obviously, once the Board feels comfortable with the current position of the company, we will look at ways of distributing any surplus cash flow if there's any, considering what other capital requirements there is. Will we be able to recover gold, silver and uranium? We will not recover uranium from the tailings facility. That will not be the intention in either type of different plant. And obviously, licensing for that, the material that will be moved to DRD, only gold and silver will be recovered. But most of the value is obviously likely in the gold. I think if we look at the delays experienced in Ghana around material that's been exported, obviously, we've moved a lot of material. And a lot of sales has gone through in the first quarter. And we'll see the some of the completion of those transactions happening in the second quarter whereby we get final results and can then do our final estimations on the sales figures. The GBP 800,000 debt, can we expect that to be paid off end of the fiscal year? Definitely. The term, I think it's end of October, maybe beginning November, it will be done. So okay, we've spoken about uranium. Okay, then there's questions around dividends. And again, I mean, I think the shareholders need to understand, obviously, the changes that has happened in Goldplat over the last 10 years, the specific questions asked around returning our value and when is that actually going to happen, and it doesn't happen in the last 10 years, I think 10 years ago, we declared a dividend on certain business in Ghana that went extremely well. Obviously, the focus has been, for a long period of time, of generating value out of mining, something we left in 2019, 2020. After that, we looked at stabilizing the balance sheet of the business. One of the ways of doing that and dealing with the intercompany debt was buying back minority shares. That was roughly GBP 3.8 million worth of transaction, which happened 2 years ago. So in essence, we went and used value of the shareholders by acquiring additional stake in Goldplat. And so that was one of the ways we added value over the last, let's say, 5 years, which is quite a significant amount, an additional stake in Goldplat itself. We then returned, I can't recall the figure now, I think it's roughly around GBP 400,000 through share buybacks, I think roughly 18 months ago. And then since then, we've gone through one or two events. Some of them were external by certain impacts, whether it was on smelters, whether it's loadshedding in South Africa, that we wanted to get our hands around, making sure that we're comfortable and we've got stability. And then after that, we can then definitely return to what our thinking was 18 months ago. So from that perspective, I think our mindset around returning value is a lot different than what it was, let's say, 8 years ago where the focus was on growing the mining sector inside of Goldplat. Okay. Then there's a lot of opinionated questions, which I appreciate, but I'm not going to be able to answer one or two of them. I think in the end, for me, if I look at the Goldplat business, we're trading at a P/E of 3 or 3.6, which is quite low. We're showing operating cash flow. We've been showing that for numerous amount of years. We're showing strong business in South Africa and Ghana even with all of these some hiccups that we had in the previous year. So for me, the main focus is making sure that, that primary business keeps on running as it's running. If we can then add the recoveries on the TSF to that, I believe we can extract sufficient value for the shareholders in the long term. And I think we need to back our own ability and skills and what we've learned over the last 30 years and see how we can apply that here in the gold industry or even in other industries as time goes along. But until we make any of those types of investments, obviously, the focus is current business and on the shareholders. Okay. I hope that answers also a few of the other questions. I think I've addressed everything now. There's nothing more.

Absolutely. If I may just jump back in there, thank you very much indeed for addressing all of those questions that came in from investors this afternoon. And of course, if there are any further questions that do make their way through. We'll, of course, get them back to you immediately after the presentation has ended just for you to review and to then add any additional responses, of course, where it's appropriate to do so. And we'll publish all those responses out on the platform. But Werner, perhaps before really just looking to redirect those on the call to provide you their feedback, which I know is particularly important to yourself and the company, if I could please just ask you for a few closing comments to wrap up with, that would be great.

Okay. Well, thank you, Jake. I think maybe towards the end, I've already sort of just added my view of where we are. I think -- I mean, obviously, I'm looking forward to giving an update in terms of quarter 2 and the half year towards the end of the month, beginning of next month. And I think hopefully, we can -- with us being over this working capital lockup, we can start looking at giving better guidance in terms of what our cash flow is, what the surpluses are and how we look at spending that inside the near future. And yes, thank you very much for everybody joining tonight.

Perfect, Werner. That's great. Thank you once again for updating investors this afternoon. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you'll now be automatically redirected for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order that the management team can really better understand your views and expectations? This will only take a few moments to complete, but I'm sure it'll be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of Goldplat PLC, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That now concludes today's session. So good evening to you all.