Gorilla Technology Group Inc. (GRRR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello. This is Craig Brelsford with RedChip Companies. Thank you for joining today's event with Gorilla Technology Group, which trades on the NASDAQ under the ticker GRRR. With us today, we have Jay Chandan, Chairman of the Board and CEO of Gorilla Technology Group; and Bruce Bower, Interim Chief Financial Officer. We will begin with a brief presentation in a moment, and then we will answer your questions. Before we begin, please allow me to read the safe harbor statement. This call may contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. All statements pertaining to future financial and/or operating results, along with other statements about the future expectations, beliefs, goals, plans or prospects expressed by management constitute forward-looking statements. Any statements that are not historical fact should also be considered forward-looking statements. Of course, forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties. I now turn the webinar over to Jay and Bruce. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much indeed.

So Jay, Bruce, feel free to get started with a brief corporate update before we hop into Q&A.

What do you want me to talk about? Do you want me to talk about the project itself, the new project, which we announced today?

Absolutely. That would be the first question that we would ask you today. So if you'd like to elaborate a bit on the ONE AMAZON project, it would be great.

Perfect. I think a lot of people are looking for explanation as to what the project is. There seem to be a lot of people confused, some people skeptical. Let me tell you very clearly, this is the largest project, I believe Gorilla will ever sign. It is monumental, not just for Amazon, but for the global environmental stewardship. Now at Gorilla Technology, as you all know, we believe that the power of data can redefine how we protect our planet. And today, for me, this marks the beginning of that particular journey. Now what is ONE AMAZON? And a lot of people seem to be very confused. Let me kind of give you a very -- a rounded overview of this. This is more than a conservation effort. It's a collaborative, international movement with the likes of CAF, AECOM, Brazil Invest, Abu Dhabi Investment Group, [ Rodrigo Veloso ], Goldman Sachs and so many other key partners, we're actually aligning resources, technology and financial strategies to build the world's first and the largest Internet of forest. Now this initiative is not only confined to Brazil or to the Amazon, it's a global footprint for us to deliver environmental sustainability. Now why the Amazon rain forest, because it's the earth's most important carbon sync. And through this project, we aim to protect value, deliver sustainability for generations to come. Now as I mentioned, data is our biggest ally in protecting nature. The biggest challenge people have had in the past is that they've not had the right amount of data to help drive decisions. Now let me explain that. Now for us, it's data is a digital backbone of the Internet of forest. What we are doing is we're deploying millions and millions of biodegradable environmental sensors. By the way, it's the largest sensor deployment in the history to create real-time powered intelligence data platform. Now these sensors, what they will do is they will track deforestation rates. They will verify biodiversity changes. They will look after carbon sequestration. And more importantly, they'll focus on illegal activities such as logging and mining and so on and so forth. This level of unprecedent -- I mean, unprecedented level of environmental data will help governments, scientists and policymakers create more proactive as opposed to reactive responses. Now as we move forward and the reason why we actually start with Brazil is Brazil is at the heart of Amazon. Now where collaboration matters most, we see Brazil as an epicenter of such environmental innovation where technology, local communities and all the international capital will kind of intersect. Now our collaborative projects in Brazil are focused on smart environmental monitoring, creating real-time insights into the ecosystem health, community-led conservation. So we are partnering with the indigenous communities to ensure data-driven conservation is helping sustainable smart city initiative. Now we're working with local municipal governments to integrate environmental intelligence to urban planning. Now finally, what we're also doing, which is very unique about this particular project is that we're pioneering a very new financial paradigm. Rodrigo Veloso, as you know him, he created a company called ONE Coconut, which was actually sold to Pepsi. After that, he's managed to take the Truth Social company public via SPAC. So he's done pretty well. But more importantly now he's trying to raise tens of billions of dollars, if not hundreds of billions of dollars to establish the largest environmental impact fund. Now what will this do? This fund will be broken down into a variety of pieces. But for every $1 billion, the impact fund will raise, 25% of that will go to Gorilla to deploy its environmental-friendly sensors, its technological -- to overcome any technological challenges. But more importantly, it is also making sure that the data we create is usable and is a pristine condition. So we will try and finance the data over a period of time, and we're expecting that to be kind of financed by the first 3 to 5 years. So this will help -- this data will help generate what is called as a digital backed asset security. Now for people who are not familiar with that, we are building the world's first financial instrument that attracts both institutional and impact investors worldwide. Now by digitally quantifying the Amazon's ecological contributions, we're literally turning nature into a recognized economic asset. Now the current value people have kind of come up with is roughly around $20 trillion to $22 trillion for that particular ecosystem. Now without the most important in this is that we are not compromising the integrity or ownership of the rain forest. All we are using is blockchain technology so that we can ensure transparent, secure and immutable environmental reporting so that we can build trust, give and provide accessibility to the data and make sure that every conservation decision is pristine. Now what are we doing? In very simple kind of -- if you ask me, give me 3 bullet points. We are developing actionable strategies for conservation and economic development. We're supporting policy making with robust real-time data. But more importantly, we are creating international partnerships to replicate this model, so that we can go into other critical booms globally. Now the Amazon is our first mission, but our vision extends beyond to other vital ecosystems across the world. Now if you look at Brazil, for me, it is a starting point, but the impact of this mission will echo across the world. That, in a nutshell, is what we are doing today and that's what we have released to the market. Again, for every dollar we raise, we're going to spend about 25% to 30% of that, that Gorilla will have. So if we're raising $10 billion, Gorilla will be allocated about $2.5 billion to go build the sensors and all of the other technologies, sustainable environmental-friendly technologies within the Amazon. Craig, [ Barrett ]?

Jay, thank you for more information on this groundbreaking news. Would you like my colleague, Craig, to continue with the pre-submitted questions?

Sure.

Craig, go ahead.

Thanks, Barrett. Jay and Bruce, any updates on the company's plans to relocate headquarters to the United States?

No. I'll let Bruce respond to that. But no, we are not relocating to the United States. I'm not relocating our headquarters to the United States. But since you mentioned that already, we have been asked to open up an office in Miami. So what we are doing is, we are going to be opening up an office in Miami very soon. And we are also hiring 2 very, very senior people who will run that particular region along with Raj. And that's kind of on a very high level.

I think this question was generated because we announced a couple of months ago that we had opened an office in Seattle. But it's just an office. And like Jay said, we're going to open a Miami office, but we're not -- the headquarters is remaining in London for now.

Yes. And Craig, just FYI, Miami is not just going to be an office. There's a lot happening there. We will talk about it later today, and then I will give you more substantial updates as well.

Thanks, gentlemen. Bruce, you are still listed as interim CFO. What will it take for you to become the permanent CFO?

I think you're asking the wrong guy. So Craig, we are going to the motions right now. It is an elongated procedure. The Board has already kind of approved it, and we're going to the motions right now. Give us another few days or maybe a couple of weeks before we can make a formal announcement.

How freely are you, gentlemen, able to answer questions regarding earnings, partnerships and contracts during this webinar?

Listen, Bruce and I have love nothing more than to give you detailed numbers and deals in the pipeline. I'll talk about it very freely. But of course, we operate -- you have to all understand we operate within very strict regulatory and legal guidelines. That means we can only disclose information what is publicly available or that has been at least properly released in the market. But anything considered MNPI or material non public information must remain confidential until the appropriate time. And I think you've known us to be pretty open already, right? I mean we haven't -- we're a pretty open business. We're as both CEO and CFO, we're pretty open to the local -- both the retail and institutional investors. But we will do what we can to provide as much transparency as we can within the possible boundaries, okay? We will talk to you about our strategy. We'll talk to you about our execution plans. We'll talk to you about the overall direction of the business. But if you're expecting me to give you numbers on specific projects, which we haven't disclosed yet, absolutely not. So we run -- listen, we run a very disciplined, high integrity business, but we will always be open as long as it's within the certain parameters set by the regulators. Is that good, Bruce? Or is there anything you want to add?

Yes. I mean, just to be clear, basically, we are due to announce the numbers for the year-end 2024 on March 31st. And then the full filing will come on April 15th. So for earnings and any specifics from the year-end, we really can't say anything more until then.

Jay, are you still holding on to the $5 billion market cap goal for 2025 as stated in the previous interview?

$5 billion market cap? Okay. Listen, I believe everybody hung up on that number, okay? Listen, I have very high ambitions for Gorilla, right? $5 billion, $10 billion doesn't really matter, but that has not changed. I've always believed in setting bold targets. And my only ambition is to drive relentlessly towards them, okay? Now let's be realistic, market conditions are unpredictable. There are external factors sometimes which are beyond our control as well. But however, whatever is within our control, I will drive how we execute, how we grow and how we deliver value to our shareholders. Now we are investing very heavily into our AI digital infrastructure. We are investing very heavily into network intelligence, cybersecurity, and we're growing these product portfolios quite significantly. We're forging high-impact partnerships. We are creating multi-year contracts, which is never there in the business before, and we're expanding into high-growth regions, as you've seen very actively over the last few months. For me, the $5 billion valuation is not just a number. It represents a scale and influence and industry leadership. For me, I envision for Gorilla, my job is to actually build a company that earns valuation through real sustainable growth, projects, revenue, top line, bottom line. And more importantly, we will build that pipeline going forward. Remember this, Craig, I always tell this, I can kind of leave it as a little snippet usually. For me, ambition drives execution. Execution drives value, and that's exactly what we're focused on.

How is Gorilla navigating the impact of U.S. tariffs given that it is a British company with a strong customer base in Southeast Asia?

That's a good question. Bruce, I'm happy for you to chime in. But let me kind of give a quick high-level thought process of mine. I mean, listen, tariffs and trade policies are always evolving. As a global company, I have to absolutely make sure that I keep my eyes on it, right? Country laws, new regulations, new politicians coming in, change of guard, all that is very important for us. But we structure our business to -- and our operations, more importantly, to minimize exposure and optimize efficiency. See, we're a U.K. headquartered company. So Gorilla is inherently a global business. So what we have is operational flexibility across multiple regions. What we have built is a very diverse supply chain. We're not stuck and married to one vendor, one supplier, one partner. We've created strategic partnerships that allow us to adapt very swiftly to changes in tariffs, ensuring minimal disruption to our customers and more importantly, to our bottom line. Now secondly, we're also leveraging international partnerships and manufacturing hubs and you've seen that we are expanding very rapidly into manufacturing within the region, particularly in Southeast Asia. We've built it in the Middle East. What we are now doing is we're also exploring or subcontract exploring, manufacturing facilities in Miami and in Colombia as well, and that will give us greater control over supply chain costs while ensuring -- our technology remains highly competitive in the market. Now finally, we also work very closely with the governments. I think you've seen us being very, very closely involved with multiple governments, whether it's the U.S. government working very closely with them with the senators and Secretaries of States and so on or whether it's the British government working with DBT across the entire network of where we are present today. Our goal is to ensure that Gorilla remains resilient, adaptable and positioned for sustained growth. So we are able to navigate through all of these geopolitical factors. So we have built Gorilla personally to thrive in any market condition. And our ability to navigate is a testament to our global agility and our operational strength. Bruce, anything you want to add to that?

Yes. I mean, just on a -- to be very concrete is so far, the tariffs coming out of the U.S. have had 0 exposure to Gorilla. I mean, basically, the tariffs are on things that are going into the U.S. And so far, we haven't had much business in the U.S. And then as Jay said, we're well positioned so that in the future, we'll have more business coming out of the U.S., first of all, locally grown or at least where we can manage the exposure. So we try to balance so that it doesn't affect us or it affects us minimally. And then I would also add like software and technology, hardware is different, but software and technology is basically never tariffed, right? It's only the hardware that might be tariffed and then by working in different jurisdictions, that will minimize the burden.

Mike Latimore from Northland, the analyst from Northland has submitted a question. He asks, what funding level does the fund need to reach before you start to capture 25%? How long might that take to see first revenue to Gorilla? And do you have an update on 2025 backlog level, 2026?

I don't think I understood the question at all. Bruce, did you?

I think he's referring to the ONE AMAZON. So you had mentioned the percentage that allocated towards Gorilla. So how much funding does that project make?

So for every $1 billion, we -- we will be given -- allocated 25% of it, and that would be straight revenues to Gorilla. But more importantly, we are building our internal model as we speak. Bruce and I, as you can imagine, we were in New York last week. We're doing a lot of roadshows with investors. And hopefully, we'll be able to come back with a more concrete response over the next few days, Mike. But look at it this way, we've already received huge, huge, huge interests. And so Rodrigo Veloso, ambitious he is, he set the sights on raising at least $100 billion within the next 3 years. So you can imagine the scale. Bruce, do you want to take the other part of the question?

Yes. So the backlog that we've announced previously for 2025, this is just due in 2025 is $93 million. We stand on that number. That is contracts where we've signed them and we're either already working or where we anticipate delivering them in 2025. For 2026, we have -- we do not have a guidance yet. We'll announce that guidance in April when -- after we've reported -- done all the reporting. But we have a backlog figure that we can share, which is $67 million. So that is what we already have signed and either we're working on or anticipate delivering in 2026, and that is a firm number. And that, again, is only attributable in 2026. There's also backlog for 2027 and beyond. But let's just talk about '25 and '26 for the moment. Yes, the other thing I should mention is that the backlog has not changed because so far, we have -- the forecasts for this year and the backlog are based on signed contracts. Right now, we signed MOUs, and we also are going to the contracting phase with a lot of, for instance, the ONE AMAZON project and a few others. And then we have some others that we have yet to announce. And these contracts, we'll see what the impact is on 2025, if any. If there is an impact, then we will return to the market and update the forecast if we need to. But we try to set a conservative -- we have a conservative forecasting process. We're not going to promise something that we have to walk back later. Instead, we're going to look at what we think we have in the bag and only put that in the forecast.

It's actually, if I may add to that, I think, Bruce, you made a very valid point there. Going into '26, I think this is going to surprise a lot of people. Going into '26, we've already got more than $65 million of backlog in signed contracts. So we're not going to be shy of how that revenue looks like. And by the way, none of these projects are accounted for in any of our backlogs. All the projects which we are in the verge of signing or the ones we've signed today are all something which we will start allocating over the next few months.

And then I think more broadly is a lot of the contracts that you have heard about, Smart Education, et cetera, ONE AMAZON all of these, mostly they're 2026, '27 and beyond stories because, again, we don't want to say, get everyone hyped up and say, all this will contribute this much in 2025 and then miss that target. So we're really focused on building up the pipeline, converting the pipeline and then delivering a very strong '26, '27, even 2028 due to long-term contracts and recurring revenue streams from those contracts. And then if some of that comes into 2025, either serendipitously or accelerated, then even better.

Yes, that's a very valid point.

Follow-up from Mike. What is the status of the Smart School contract signing?

Okay. It took me by surprise. Okay. Let me be very clear on this. The Southeast Asia project is transformational opportunity, not just for Gorilla, but for the entire smart education sector. What we are doing there is unprecedented. Okay? We've been shortlisted. We've been given verbal approval, as I've mentioned previously, for this groundbreaking initiative. But I fully understand that the market is very eager for updates. I've been following all the boards across. And for me, you got to understand from our perspective, deals of this size and complexity take time, and we're committed to getting it right. Right now, we are in active negotiations with the customer. We're working through the details, very fine details. What are they? Contract structures, delivery schedules, statements of work, deployment strategies and so on and so forth so that we can ensure successful execution so that we don't screw up at the end of the day. But in parallel, our teams are not just waiting around fiddling with their thumps. We are proactively building internal proof of concepts. We're building the models. We're testing them on various deployment scenarios, why? Because we just don't want to deliver a solution. We want to deliver a solution that works seamlessly at scale as well. So what we're trying to do is we're trying to deliver this at minimal friction during roll out. Remember, this project is only the first phase. Now the government has already come back to us and said they want to open up the next 2 phases for us as well. So we've got 10 phases, and we've got about 5 years to deliver all of them. So we've got to be making sure that our internal testing will be able to refine our approach, optimize our efficiencies and preempt potential any roadblock. So we want to get into this. We don't want to get into it light. Now I completely understand, Mike, and I've been following the market very closely, like I said previously, I feel that the market just wants speed, but I'm not going to compromise precision for pace. I am not going to do that because just because the market wants it. No, I'm not going to do that. But more importantly, once we receive the green light, I promise you that we will come and make that announcement immediately, nothing would make me more happy at that point of time. We're not just chasing deals. I mean, I think everybody, whether it's institutional or retail, please understand, we are not chasing deals. We are creating -- we're engineering a sustainable growth trajectory. What I'm trying to create along with my team is to create meaningful impact for our revenues. So bear with me, and you will see a lot more come your way. And by the way, I -- Mike, the Amazon project alone is worth a few billion dollars for us already. And that is already outshining the Southeast Asia projects, and we'll talk a little more about some of the other projects which we have in the pipeline, which we have been already given global approval as well. I hope that answers your question, Mike?

Given Gorilla's strong backlog and revenue growth, does the company have any plans for a larger share buyback program?

If I'm being very blunt, not now. Right now, every dollar we generate is being strategically reinvested into growth, innovation and market expansion. We just announced just because of this particular project today, Raj, our CTO, is flying to Taiwan to sit down and work with our vendors and suppliers, a poor guy, I don't know where he is right now. He's probably landed in Taiwan. But he's also -- we've given him a particular mandate to hire about 100 people in India over the next 6 weeks and about 25 to 40 people in Taiwan so that we can help support this growth of this particular ONE AMAZON project. Bruce, anything you want to add to that?

I would just say that in the short-term, there will be investment in the business, just like Jay said. But we still have a very -- I would refocus the fact that we still have a buyback authorized up to $10 million.

Yes.

$6.2 million of that is unspent. We spent $3.8 million, so $6.2 million is unspent. So we still have a lot of firepower. And then we still have a lot of appetite for the buyback. It's not like it's closed, finished and then we're debating reopening it. It's still very much open to the tune of $6.2 million.

Gentlemen, what is the company's time line for reporting fiscal year 2024 financials? Will numbers be audited? And can we expect Q1 2025 earnings as promised?

Bruce?

Yes. So to reiterate, March 31, we announce the headline numbers. April 15 is target for filing the -- basically the year-end statement, it's called 20-F for us, 10-K for a normal U.S. listed company. And we will be reporting quarterly starting with the first quarter of this year. So probably 6, 7 weeks after the close of the quarter, we'll start -- we'll announce the first quarter numbers.

Yes.

And then first question by the way...

It will be audited like we have to be audited. So, yes, but I'm also proud to report that 2024 is the first year that will be in full compliance with Sarbanes-Oxley. We are a category of issuer known as a foreign private issuer. And usually, you have 5 years from...

Yes.

Listing to comply and we're 2 years ahead of schedule. So I hope investors will be reassured by that as well.

I mean, I think -- sorry, Craig, just FYI. Bruce and his team have done an immensely, immensely, taken over a painful job of getting this done 2 years ahead of schedule. So you could imagine the amount of efforts we've actually put in to bring this up to scale. Not many companies will dare attempt that today, okay, with the size and the growth trajectory we're anticipating. And all we're doing is that because we want to look and feel like an American company, right, where we may be an FPI, we will do what is right by our shareholders and what is right by our business.

How does the Intelligent Network Director fit into Gorilla's broader strategy? What market share of the $40 billion industry can it realistically capture?

Okay. Let me put this bluntly, right? The Intelligent Network Director or the SDR market is not just an evolution. Personally, I think it's a revolution for me. Why? Because it's a fundamental shift in how networks are managed, secured, optimized in a world which is rapidly becoming AI-driven, right? Now most people will know this for decades, businesses, governments have relied on legacy reactive network management systems. Now these systems are slow, vulnerable and they require constant manual intervention. Today, the network must be, 1, autonomous, intelligent and should be secure by design itself. Now this is exactly what our Intelligent Network Director, IND, will actually deliver. Now IND is not just a network monitoring tool, by the way, just FYI. It's the full end-to-end AI-driven command center that dynamically manages, secures and optimizes the networks in real time. Now you talked about numbers. Let's talk about numbers. The network management market, right, for example, is about $40 billion to $50 billion industry. It serves a variety of sectors, whether it's AI-powered automation, using SD-WAN and network security, private 5G networks and so on orchestration and so on. And these are all growing at an explosive rate. Just to give you the scale. For example, the edge computing and the 5G network is currently growing at about 25% to 30% year-on-year. The SD-WAN market exploding at about between 16% and 20%. The AI-powered network automation is growing at about 20% to 25% year-on-year. And we're not chasing crumps, okay? We're going after $2 billion to $3 billion revenue opportunities, which is not just in delivering solutions for the next 2 to 3 years, we're chasing the next 5 to 10 years. And I talked about -- I keep talking about this. We are talking about building a long tail revenue so that we can manage the operations of these particular networks. We're not just selling our software. We are going to manage their network. So what are we doing? We're doing 1 of 3 -- we're doing all 3 things actually, sorry. Strategic partnerships, scalable and deployable and more importantly, we're building our technology leadership over a period of time. So we are very close to kind of deploying one of our solutions in the Middle East, and there's another large implementation that will happen in Southeast Asia over the course of this particular year as well. Craig?

Can you provide an update on the Thames Freeport alliance and its expected revenue impact over the next 12 to 24 months?

Huge. I can't spill the beans right now, but there's lots going on with a variety of moving parts right now. But our strategic alliance with Thames Freeport, I think it was established in May or April of last year. It's a key milestone for us. Why? Because it's not just about a partnership. It's not just about technology deployment. For me, it's about redefining trade efficiency, security and sustainability, which is in one of U.K.'s most critical economic hubs. Now what we are doing is, we are building a very comprehensive smart city strategy, and that integrates with our AI-driven security, intelligent trade flow and then more importantly, sustainable long-term digital infrastructure solutions. We are working with Thames Freeport very closely, and we're also actively pursuing a U.K., Egyptian government enhanced trade relationship as we speak. I think there's going to be a delegation visit sometime in April, where we're actually looking at enhancing the trade revenues between these 2 countries so we can streamline trade routes, improve logistics and create a digitally optimized corridor. And that will be done by Gorilla and managed and maintained by it. But that's going to take time. You can understand government red tape and all the nonsense around it, it takes time. So over the next 12 to 24 months, my aim is to position Gorilla as the leading technology solutions provider within not just the Thames Freeport, but the other freeeports we are working on, for example, in Thailand, in the U.K. as you saw, we've recently been awarded another contract in the U.K. with the Port of Thailand along with British Telecom. And we are also working on a number of port initiatives in LatAm and in the East Coast of the United States. So as and when we kind of have very significant updates, I'll update the investors accordingly.

Gentlemen, given the Lanner partnership, what progress has been made in manufacturing CPE/Internet of Things devices? What revenue impact is expected at full operational output?

Interesting. Our partnership with Lanner has been a significant milestone for Gorilla Technology because we've made substantial progress in developing next-generation security convergence appliances. Now we talked about this previously. We just don't want to sell software. We're selling software and hardware together as an appliance, and we're making more money and better margins. So today, I'm very proud to announce that we have 3 distinct models, entry-level, mid range and high performance, which are designed to meet a very diverse range of our global clientele's needs. In terms of manufacturing, we have completed the design phase. We're currently at the prototyping phase, and we're -- initial tests have been very promising, and we anticipate moving into full-scale production in the coming months. It is premature for me, I'll be honest with you, to talk about specific revenue numbers at this particular juncture today because we are working with a number of potential deals, and we don't know what the end result of that is going to look like because remember, when we sell a deal, we're not just selling the one product or the one appliance, we're selling a solution to the customer. So for me to break it down and give you the exact number is going to be quite difficult today. But that said, we're actively exploring many such partnerships in Colombia, Chile, Peru, Panama City, U.S. Miami and even in the West Coast today. And for us, it is important that we will -- we continue enhancing our production capabilities, why? Because we want to make sure that we're able to reduce the lead times and better serve our customers across the region. So if you look at the way we are looking at today, we're having our manufacturing facilities in Thailand so that we can expand -- and of course, Taiwan with Lanner to expand and serve the Southeast Asian market. But at the same time, we're also now exploring very actively opportunities in Colombia and Miami for manufacturing some of these environmentally sustainable and biodegradable sensors as well. Craig?

Gentlemen, the company's sales surged 222% in the first half of 2024. Can you elaborate on key drivers behind that growth and whether this trend is expected to continue?

Bruce?

I'll take that one, yes. So the key reason for the big growth in first half 2024 relative to first half 2023 was that we had large contracts in the Middle East and in Taiwan that were kicking in. And so base effects basically compared to the first quarter or the first half of 2023. We will not grow at a 221% pace sort of year-over-year. I would refer to the guidance. So it's $70 million to $75 million for 2024. And then that compares to a full year revenue number for 2023 of $64 million. So not a 220% growth rate, but still a decent growth rate. And then the guidance to remind you for this year for 2025 is $90 million to $100 million is the current revenue guidance. So that is what the growth rate is looking like now.

Gorilla's guidance includes an EBITDA range of $20 million to $25 million for fiscal year 2024. With strong sales momentum, is there a potential for an upside surprise?

Sorry, in '24 or '25?

2024 -- fiscal 2024?

Yes. I think the $20 million to $25 million is the guidance for 2025, that's why. So I would say that a couple of things. First, the business now we have made a lot of the key hires or senior hires. As we said just now, we're going to be hiring more sort of mid-level R&D people to keep up with the pace of demand. I would say, on the other hand, that the gross margin profile is 40% plus, and we're very happy with the gross margin that is anticipated on the new contracts that we're signing. It's above the 40% sort of minimum.

Yes.

And then I would stick to the guidance for EBITDA right now. I would say though that over time, the business should enjoy operating leverage because the head count will expand. But as we see expanding gross profit margins and then as we see greater revenue numbers, that should dwarf the increase in SG&A costs. So that's a fancy way of saying that EBITDA margins over time, so over the next 2 to 3 years should expand. But right now, we're standing on the guidance for 2025.

Gorilla is more than $2 billion in qualified leads and multiple $100 million-plus dollar deals in the pipeline suggest significant growth potential. How close are some of these deals to conversion? And has this previously given pipeline number been expanded?

Okay. I think it's going to surprise everybody. Craig, let me make this absolutely, absolutely clear. We're in a completely different league now, okay? Maybe our market cap doesn't reflect that. The shots are trying to play with us. I don't really care about those idiots. We previously talked about a $2 billion pipeline. We knew we had much stronger momentum. Products are phenomenal. There's a lot of receptiveness towards Gorilla across different countries and different regions. Today, I can tell you for sure, this is not a pie in the sky. This is not motherhood and apple pie. My pipeline is now north of $6.6 billion. It's not $2 billion. And this $6.6 billion does not include my ONE AMAZON contract. I can tell you with total confidence that between now and mid of 2027, I will sign anything between $2 billion and $2.5 billion in new deals, which we will close. And these are not speculative figures. This is not me trying to run the share price up. I don't really care. These are real advanced stage deals, we're currently actively working on. We're working through contract finalizations, MOUs, teaming agreements, delivery schedules, statement of work, et cetera, et cetera. All that is coming through. $6.6 billion is that magic number today. And it will only increase. It's not going down, by the way. You're also going to see something very shocking over the next 4 weeks, which we will also announce very soon. I just thought to leave a nugget over there. A lot of people on the boards have actually talked about whether apparently there was a cryptic message. It was done really. In all honesty, it was just done naturally. We just took a photo outside a building with a big letter. And people are confusing that with the current contract I have with ONE AMAZON. Let me be categorically clear. These are 2 different opportunities. They are not a mistake. There was no intention of trying to give you any cryptic messages. We are negotiating with them on another opportunity. And by the way, a lot of people also said AWS and all that nonsense is not AWS' something much bigger than what you've all anticipated and something significant as well, which will also throw a huge spotlight on Gorilla's capabilities. Now we talked about several hundred million mega deals. We're in negotiation. We are working towards contracting stage. Remember, Craig, these are multimillion, multibillion dollar deals. That means we have to build proof of concepts. Nobody is just going to sign a $100 million deal without a proof of concept. I need people to understand that. I need investors and markets to understand that very clearly. We have to provide them a solution so that they can show an immediate ROI. That's why Gorilla is being loved by a lot of these customers. So these are just not deals. We are locking in long-term value, multiphase partnerships and more importantly, driving sustainable long-term revenues. Now this level of pipeline will fundamentally transform Gorilla's trajectories. But I'm not going to just say, hey, listen, I can't give you names, but I can tell you the industries we're working on. Today, I'm working in financial services and banking industry and technology, government and law enforcement, energy utilities, automotive and transportation, urban development, data centers and cloud infrastructure. We're working in sports and stadium infrastructure. We're working in correctional facilities, especially prisons. We're working in education technology, and you guys are all familiar with that. We're working on e-commerce and entire logistics. We're working in aviation and smart airports. There should be something coming out very soon on airports in the next few weeks. And we're also working on smart ports as well. Craig?

Given your partnerships with Intel, Red Hat and Ericsson, how does Gorilla plan to leverage these relationships to expand its market footprint globally?

Well, Craig, what we are doing is, we are using these relationships, and we're actually making sure that we can build a much more solid pipeline. Today, whether it's smart grid systems, microgrid, threat detection, surveillance and so on and so forth, AI is moving much faster than technology can catch up. So we are working with these behemoths, if I may, to make sure that our product stays relevant. But more importantly, we're making sure that we are able to work with these global stakeholders so that we can redefine the urban infrastructure. We want to remain ahead of technology. So Gorilla will be at the forefront of that transformation. These partnerships only enable us to strengthen our core skills and our products.

How does Gorilla see AI-driven smart border solutions as an opportunity similar to smart cities?

That is a very interesting question. See, smart borders are very unique. I think there's going to be -- and I did just talk about this now. We see that there is a very interesting project we're currently working on, which you will see an announcement come out in the next 4 to 6 weeks. Borders today for me are more than just lines on a map. They are very complex ecosystems. It talks about we need real-time security, seamless work flows, trade flows, threat management, detection and so on and so forth. They have to be intelligent. They have to be autonomous. And more importantly, they have to be fully AI-driven. So our technology today, we have a proves ability to digitize and secure entire critical national infrastructure, where we see that as a national -- sorry, a natural extension of the borders. And so today, how do we approach it? We have 3 or 4 key solutions we work on, whether it's real-time AI surveillance or threat detection, whether it's across land, air, sea borders, our technology eliminates human error, threat detection enables governments first. Second, we have a very secure and seamless trade flow management. And this is unique to us because we can integrate our AI with customs operations, logistics, freight management and create a digitally optimized border ecosystem. The third one is, you've got data and you need intelligent decision-making. So we work to provide instant insights into security threats, custom clearance, trade flow efficiencies and also, which is, what I say, a segue into that is creating real-time intelligence dashboard systems so that we can ensure faster, safer and more efficient operations. We are in conversations with 2 or 3 of these right now, and we will keep you updated over the course of the next few months as to where we end up with them. Craig?

Gentlemen, final question. Gorilla has built one of the largest secure SD-WAN networks in Africa. Are there plans to replicate this model in other regions?

Craig, I don't want to correct you, but it's one of the largest SD-WANs in the world. But yes, absolutely. Our secure SD-WAN solutions is one of our most powerful assets. Look at what the world needs, right? The world needs high-performance, AI-driven, ultra-secure network infrastructure. So what we provide is not just about connectivity, it's about intelligent self-optimizing and highly secure digital platform. So we are enabling businesses, governments, critical industries to function without disruption, okay? Now are we planning to replicate that model in other regions? That's a resounding, yes. We are absolutely exploring in Latin America, Middle East, Southeast Asia. We're securing AI-powered networking solutions for these customers, and that demand is growing very rapidly for us today. Now for example, I think all of you saw me in -- or at least saw my post in Panama City, in Colombia recently and in Boston as well. The markets are very exciting for us as we're exploring and expanding our SD-WAN footprint. We believe the market will be driven by -- our expansion in the market will drive us in 3 major categories: AI and cloud-based workloads and more importantly, the rising geopolitical risks and cybersecurity threats and more importantly, the next-gen digital trade and smart city infrastructure. We believe these will be mission-critical applications, which we will help drive and create value so that we can expand into these new high-growth regions.

Before we wrap up, for more information on Gorilla Technology, you can reach us at 1-800-RedChip or e-mail us at [email protected]. Of course, a lot of you did have questions that we weren't able to get to. You're, of course, welcome to copy and then paste it into an e-mail and send it to us at [email protected], and we'll make sure that Jay and Bruce see it. Please visit the information page created by RedChip for Gorilla. It's grrrinfo.com, there, you can view and download the investor presentation and fact sheet and sign up for news alerts on Gorilla. And Jay and/or Bruce, I thought that you might want to say something before we wrap up.

I'll let Bruce say, and I want to close with something very interesting. Bruce?

I don't know which of the interesting things we shared today, but so want to say, yes. No, I would just say 1 thing that we didn't touch on, but it's important is, as Jay mentioned, we're focused on the 2026, 2027 pipeline. But where we've really been making a shift, and this is important for the revenue projections and everything else is recurring revenue. So almost all of the contracts that we're talking about now have a minimum sort of 3 years of implementation to be followed by some kind of recurring revenue stream like software licenses, manage operations, et cetera. But ONE AMAZON and some of the smart city projects that we signed in Latin America are 20 and 30-year recurring projects.

Yes.

So what I would angle everyone to is when you hear of a contract, don't just think of this is the initial value, think about some percentage of that and it will vary by contract. We'll be coming into Gorilla's bucket every year for the next 20 years. So that makes it easier to forecast the results that boost the margins over time. And then we hope that the market will recognize that and start to reprice accordingly.

Great. No. But guys, I mean, I think 1 of the things we didn't talk about, and I want the market to know about this, as part of the ONE AMAZON project, I think most of you realize that we've actually creating a tradable financial platform, which means we're actually going to be issuing tokenized asset, okay? For everybody who can see this today, this is the actual token we are going to give. I mean this is a representation really. But this is exactly what we're going to do. Rodrigo Veloso and his team, including [ Jaime ] and all those guys, they have created this and they've invited us to be a part of this. We are not, by the way, a technology provider for ONE AMAZON. We are ONE AMAZON. We are the core team. I need that to sink into you because remember, by -- we are creating a new class of digital financial instrument. Guys, nobody has done this. We are working with Goldman Sachs. These guys are brilliant. They are creating nature-backed digital securities. They are creating ESG valuation models. They're creating a regeneration finance mechanism. And more importantly, it's an Amazon-linked blockchain token, which people will buy, and we believe that the value of that will be -- I'm not going to put any numbers there, beginning at least with a T, okay? So think about it this way. This is huge. This is unique. And I don't care what the naysayers say at the end of the day, right? We are doing something which is going to help transform the region. And more importantly, it is going to help empower the indigenous community, okay? Think about the future we're going to leave for these people and for our children. That's it.

All right. We'll wrap up here. Thank you, gentlemen, and thank you to our many participants today. Thank you.

Thank you, everybody. Cheers.