GTPL Hathway Limited (GTPL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Q3 FY '24 Results Conference Call of GTPL Hathway, hosted by Emkay Global Financial Services. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would like now to hand the conference over to Mr. Pulkit Chawla from Emkay Global Financial Services. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the Q3 FY '24 earnings call for GTPL Hathway. From the management, we have with us today, Mr. Anirudhsinh Jadeja, Promoter and Managing Director; Mr. Piyush Pankaj, Business Head, CATV and Chief Strategy Officer; and Mr. Saurav Banerjee, Chief Financial Officer. Without any further delay, I shall now hand over the call to the management for their opening remarks. Over to you, gentlemen.

Thank you, Pulkit. Good evening, everyone. A warm welcome to everybody to the earnings call of GTPL Hathway to discuss financial performance of quarter 3 FY 2024. We continue to be the largest MSO in India and increasing our footprint in both Cable TV and Broadband business. The broadband business continues to go from strength to strength as we achieved the milestone of 1 million active subscribers during the quarter. Our strategy for growth remains unchanged as we look for opportunities for inorganic growth via acquisition while actively pursuing organic growth in subscribers. The industry landscape in both our business segments, namely Cable TV and Broadband, bodes well for our growth strategy as smaller players will start getting consolidated. I will now hand over the call to Mr. Piyush Pankaj, who will take you through the quarterly business and financial performance of the company. Piyush?

Thank you, Mr. Jadeja. Good evening, everyone. Our Digital Cable TV subscriber base as on 31st December 2023, stands at 9.40 million. Paying subscribers stand at 8.70 million. On a Y-o-Y basis, the increase in active and paying subscribers is 500,000, a 6% increase; and 400,000, a 5% increase, respectively. Subscription revenue saw an increase of 17% Y-o-Y to INR 3,249 million and 15% on 9 months basis to INR 9,456 million. In the broadband business, as Mr. Jadeja mentioned, and we have mentioned in our press release, we have crossed 1 million active subscribers, ending the quarter at 1.005 million. We thus have added 110,000 new subscribers, an increase of 12% on a Y-o-Y basis. Homepass subscribers stood at 5.60 million as on 31st December 2023, of which 75% are available for FTTX conversion. Homepass grew by 450,000 on a Y-o-Y basis. The broadband ARPU for quarter 3 FY '24 remained at INR 460. The average data consumption per customer per month stood at 345 GB per customer, an 11% increase Y-o-Y. We have continued to post consistently higher revenues every quarter. On a consolidated level, revenues grew by 22% Y-o-Y to INR 8,607 million. The broadband revenue stood at INR 1,352 million and registering a growth of 9% on a yearly basis. The consolidated EBITDA stood at INR 1,305 million, with an EBITDA margin of 15.2%. PAT for quarter 3 FY '24 stood at INR 247 million. Operating EBITDA saw an increase of 12% Y-o-Y to INR 1,171 million, primarily led by higher growth in subscription income and ISP income. The standalone revenue stood at INR 5,217 million, an increase of 16% Y-o-Y and 2% Q-o-Q. EBITDA stood at INR 757 million, a 6% Y-o-Y and EBITDA margin of 14.5%. PAT for quarter 3 FY '24 stood at INR 191 million. I would like to welcome our new CFO, Mr. Saurav Banerjee. Mr. Banerjee is a chartered accountant with over 30 years of experience, having worked with GlaxoSmithKline Pharmaceuticals, Times Group, GATI Limited, Rosy Blue India, Tribhovandas Bhimji Zaveri Limited and KEAN Group. Thank you, everyone. I will request Saurav to interact.

Thank you, Mr. Piyush. Hello, and welcome to this earnings call. I am Saurav Banerjee, CFO, GTPL Hathway Limited, and I look forward to interacting with the investor community and other stakeholders as we go along over the next few quarters. We can now begin the Q&A session.

[Operator Instructions] We have our first question from Mr. CA Nihar Shah from Crown Capital.

My first question is on the margins. Like we mentioned in the Q2 con call that our EBITDA margins can reach 20% by Q4. So is it achievable, right?

Nihar, if you see this quarter, the EBITDA margin is at 15.2% on a consolidated basis. This is mainly because the placement and marketing has gone up. And accordingly, the contribution of placement and marketing in EBITDA is almost negligible. So that's why, if you see, we are doing at 15%. We are looking forward that this will improve to somewhere 17% to 18% by end of quarter 4, and we will remain there. But this time, if you see the presentation, we have given the operating margins. A new slide has been introduced, and we have given the operating margin, where it is shown that the margin is intact throughout and the whole business is at the same margin and we are getting the same margin over the years. So that's the analysis you can see, and you will come to know that we have taken out the onetime income on that. And we have net the pay channel with the placement and marketing incomes, so that we can come to the right margin, correct margin of the business operations. So you can see that in that slide.

Okay. Okay. And what kind of EBITDA margins can we assume going ahead? So 17% to 18% I assume we said in Q4. So let's say FY '25, what are our expectations for the margin?

No, we are going to improve the margin with the time. So right now, I am talking about quarter 4, that this should be between 17% to 18%. We are looking forward that by FY '25, we should come back to 20%, 21% EBITDA margin on the overall business, which was there. Yes, operating margin is still intact for the whole business. But yes, the EBITDA also we are looking forward that somewhere we should achieve 20%, 21% or the earlier mark by end of FY '25.

Okay. sir. And one last question. What will our depreciation look like this year and next year, like the numbers, is it possible?

Yes. So if you see the overall depreciation last year, because if you remember, in quarter 4, you have seen that we have changed the policy on the depreciation based on the recommendation by our auditor, Deloitte. And the total depreciation was at around INR 319 crores in the FY '23. We are looking forward that this year, it will be somewhere around INR 340 crores to INR 342 crores, which is increase of somewhere INR 20 crores to INR 24 crores. If you see, we are doing around INR 400 crores of CapEx every year, which we are giving. And on the INR 400 crores of CapEx, the useful life is somewhere between 8 to 9 years for both Cable and Broadband business. So if you calculate on that basis, the depreciation will increase by INR 24 crores to INR 25 crores in the year, and that is what we are going to see in the end of FY '24.

Our next question is from Mr. Vinit Manek from Karma Capital Advisors.

I have 2 questions from my side. The first is on the absolute profitability. So it has been now consistently 8 to 9 quarters that we have seen a degrowth in our absolute profit after tax. So how should we look at that going forward? Because earlier, we were doing close to around INR 50 crores, INR 55 crores of quarterly PAT, which is now more than half of that number. So how should we look at that going forward?

So Vinit, now I will say that business has almost stabilized. Last 2 years, you will see a lot of changes have happened. COVID happened that the business class had tumbled, then NTO 3.0 has happened. The new auditor has come, which has got changed some of the policies. And now we are at a stable level where with confidence I'm saying that EBITDA will increase, depreciation will be this much, and there's no changes going forward and all. So we are looking forward that last year we did around INR 115 crores of PAT. And this year, we are going to do better than that. And the PAT increase, which we have seen from 2017 until 2021, we are going to have the growth rate almost there or more than that again in the business. So the rhythm of the business is coming back. That's what we are seeing, and we are very hopeful that we are again going to achieve that CAGR.

So by next 3 quarters, can we expect INR 40 crores kind of a PAT run rate on a quarterly basis?

Right now, this quarter, we did INR 34 crores. We are going to do better than this in next quarter surely, and slowly you will see the rise in the PAT. I can't assure INR 40 crores number, but yes, I think in the next call, when we are ready with our whole plan for the next year, our operating plans, and we will be more confident to say INR 40 crores, INR 45 crores or INR 35 crores or what number.

Okay. And sir, also coming to the broadband subscribers, the incremental quarter-on-quarter addition was very less during the quarter despite of us saying that we have some partner subscribers coming in for us. So what's the status over there? And how are we looking incrementally things happening on that side?

Right now, this quarter if I talk about, we have just gone up by 15,000, and a few of the reasons was here and there, because the World Cup was going on and all and we were more concentrating towards making sure that the Cable business works on that way. As you know, a lot of changes have happened on the vertical side also, the streaming side and all. So those are the reasons where that is happening. And some of the technical glitches which we had in the B2B, that have already been getting over now. And on this 15,000, around 7,000 is for B2B, and rest is B2C. Till date, we did around B2B of 65,000 in the overall. And we are looking forward that from next quarter onwards, we should start getting good numbers on this. Yes, this quarter is a bit muted. We have crossed 1 million subscriber base. But on the addition side, this quarter is a bit muted, one of the exceptional quarter I will say. From next quarter onwards, we are hopeful that we will come back to seeing additions of between 25,000 to 35,000 per month -- per quarter, sorry.

Yes, because I was just comparing the industry numbers from the TRAI website. So on a year-on-year basis, the whole industry is growing faster than 20%. And we have not been able to -- on a lower base, we have not been able to grow such. So just the context on that.

Yes, one of the reason, Vinit, is that, as you know, our ticket price and our -- when we get the customer onboarded, our ticket size is somewhere around 9 to 10 months, which will still be continuing. We have not gone for monthly or quarterly right now. And that is one of the reasons that the growth rate is a bit muted on that, because other players have already gone on there, but their churns are very high. And it's more of like what capital investment you are doing and how much you are losing on the capital side. So those things come into the questions. But yes, we are still sticking to that 9 to 10 months, which is working for us right now, and we look forward to come back to that type of growth again and we are hopeful we'll start seeing better results and better additions from next quarter onwards.

Okay. And just one last one from my side. So on the Metro Cast thing, we had a press release this quarter saying that there is some delay on the merger side of it. So do we expect it to complete by March '24?

Yes, the expectation is that by end of January or mid of February, all those things will be done. It's a joint call from our side as 31st December, we wanted to do it already. All the obligations from each side has been completed and now. But as you say, something didn't happen, the new CFO has come to the whole system and all. So we have delayed it purposefully by 1, 1.5 months, and it will be completed.

Okay. So the subscribers and the subscription revenue for the same has already come in for us? So we have started accounting for that?

Yes, yes. That's already been done. So all consolidation is being done. The result is with Metro Cast consolidated line-by-line.

Okay. And there will be some cash outflow towards the shares that we will be purchasing from the promoters? So there will be some cash outflow...

No, the cash outflow and whatever we have to do the obligations as per the agreement, the supply of the boxes and everything, that has already been done. There is no financial obligations remain. We just have to increase the secretarial works on that.

[Operator Instructions] Mr. Balasubramanian from Arihant Capital.

Sir, I just want to check we have 9.4 million active subscribers on the Cable TV business. Like we can expect 10 million subscriptions in the next quarter itself? And I just want to understand about the penetration levels, especially in the rural market. If you could clarify, like North, South, West, East, like where we are majorly focusing on?

Yes, we are trying. As you see that we are adding year-to-year basis and quarter-to-quarter basis. Already it is 9.4 million. By March '24 or end of April '24, we're hoping that we'll be close to 10 million somewhere. If we cross it, it's going to be very good, but yes, we are going to be close to 10 million. And if we talk about the market scenarios, if I talk about in a percentage term, we have somewhere around, out of this, 25% is in the east, and if I talk about the west, we're somewhere around 34%, 35% in the west. Rest is south and north. North as we have given that we have just started a year back only, north is hardly right now 5% or 6%, but we are hopeful that, that market is going to see growth and we are increasing very fast, not completely, like we are also there around that we've launched. And we're already overall in the 5% to 6%. We are hopeful that it will start contributing 15% to 20%.

Sir, like 35% east, and west 34%, 35%, is that growth jump or percentage of share business you're talking?

No, no, I'm talking about the share of the business.

And south and north, how much, sir?

Right now, South is somewhere around 15% to 16%. It is growing very fast. So Tamil Nadu and Karnataka and Andhra, we have now around 17% something.

The remaining from north. Okay, got it sir. Sir, like we have achieved a good quarter on the top line side. Like earlier quarter, we have mentioned around 18% to 20% CAGR on the subscription revenue, and EBITDA growth of 12% to 13%. Like how do you see, going forward there, so we're adding more subscribers, and the realization also is moving slowly. How do we achieve this kind of revenue target going forward?

See, that CAGR, which was earlier the CAGR of the whole revenue was somewhere around 17%, 18%, and EBITDA CAGR was 20%, 21%. Yes, this year, we are seeing that in the nine months to nine months basis, if you talk about the operation side, we are doing it around 15% in the subscription and Broadband is 11% nine months to nine months, and EBITDA is somewhere around 5% to 6%, right? This year, yes, you're right, that NTO 3.0 has come into the play and we have to increase our prices in the market, plus same doesn't happen in the broadcasting side and all. But now that penetration of NTO 3.0 and all, that became, you can say, stable. So we are looking forward that in the next two years' time, we'll again start getting those types of CAGRs in this business.

Got it. Sir, you have earlier mentioned about CapEx of INR 400 crores or something. I missed that number. This CapEx is for maintenance CapEx or like buying any assets kind of thing?

No, no, the total CapEx, the estimate of CapEx which we have given for the yearly is INR 400 crores. Till date, we have done INR 305 crores of the CapEx. Out of that, CATV CapEx is INR 150 crores, and Broadband CapEx is INR 154 crores. This is still quarter 3.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question is from Rama Manohar, an individual.

Sir, just I have one question regarding the investments that we have made so far. I think in last 3, 4 years, we made investments of around INR 1,000 crores to INR 1,500 crores, when the top line went by just 1x, and bottom line is, I think, 50% down. Just I think as a company, we need to think about whether the investments are really useful to contribute any bottom line, because after spending INR 1,000 crores, not even maintaining the net profit margins, I think the it is somewhat -- company is, whether it's going in right direction or how we are going to control other expenses? The depreciation is going continuously very high. Like all of a sudden in Q4, suddenly you said, not even in one quarter, just before one quarter you said the 20% margin and then it will come to 15% or 14%. How you are going to see the next quarters or next one or two years growth, can you please clarify?

Yes. So that's why I explained that you should refer to the operating margin, which we have given in the presentation, rather than going into this EBITDA margin, because the contribution of whatever increase is happening in the market and placement revenue is very low in the EBITDA side, because the pay channel is increasing on the same level. So marketing and incentive and pay channel, always we have to see by netting that, which I'm telling it from the last 3 years. But whenever we do the analysis, we do it after netting the pay channel costs and marketing and placement revenues. And then you see the market, which we have presented this time in our presentation, in the investor presentation which you can see. If you go and see that, you will find that the business is really healthy still. Still at the 9-month level, we are doing 25% of operating margin, which was 26% last year. So we are maintaining the business as we go forward. We just have to take out onetime deferred revenue of activation, and we have to take out other nonoperating income, which is onetime, which we have shown, which you have taken out of that analysis and you have seen the operating margin. So for the business health, you should go and see that operating margin rather than the real margin, which is coming there, because that is more of accounting. Yes.

Sir, even if we take out the activation, suppose the activation income was around INR 100 crores or INR 150 crores, 3 years back, we made 200 crores profit. If we deduct that INR 100 crores, say we were there at INR 100 crores. Now also we are at INR 100 crores profit. And what is the use of spending extra...

On that, if you see, we are doing around operating EBITDA of INR 352 crores, and whereas is FY '23, we did INR 432 crores. We are going to cross that. Second, you have to understand, which I explained in the last 3 calls, that we have to do some CapEx to maintain the business as the churn has gone up in the CATV business, which was negligible earlier. From last 3 years or 2.5 years, you can see the churn has gone up. So some CapEx is going to maintain the business. And there you will see that those CapEx is not contributing towards the increase in the revenue side and all. But to maintain the CapEx, for that -- to maintain the business, you have to do that CapEx. And that is where you will see the difference. That's how that difference is coming. And the path is getting stabilized now because those patterns, which you can see, whatever you have to do for the CapEx for maintaining the business is going to stabilize now. So when you started doing it, you will see that there is impact on the depreciation. Depreciation is going up. But now, from this year onwards, because the depreciation also, say, which I explained that what depreciation we did last year and what we are doing this year is getting stabilized now. There is no surprise in the depreciation side also. So that's where the business is going. If you talk about the health of the business and all, I'll just give you that India, 320 million households now, and still, TV households is just 200 million. Still, 120 million TV household has to come into India. Out of 200 million, the cable and satellite we talked about, that is around 170 million. So still from 170 million to 320 million, 150 million households are there, which has to come into the picture on the television side, this cable, et cetera, items. Plus, there is lot of opportunity in the cable side of the smaller players. We are just having 9 million. If you consolidate all the players, the organized players, they have just around 30 million subscribers, 30 million, 35 million subscribers. Still, there are 45 million subscribers, which is with the independent smaller MSOs, where you can go and consolidate the whole market. So a lot of opportunities are there where you can, as you start investing and doing that, you will start getting more and more numbers and more and more businesses. Same if you talk about the Broadband business. The total wired in the Broadband is around 35 million in the country out of 320 million households, which is almost around 11% only, not more than that. So still a lot of journey has to happen in the wired and the whole broadband sector. New technologies are also coming, but everyone is going to survive. If you talk about wired in foreign countries, if you talk about China, China is crossing 60% right now, the penetration. If you talk about Eurozone, Eurozone is already at 70% penetration. If you talk about Korea, 85%. If you talk about the U.S., already crossing 75% wired broadband. So India is still lacking on that. We are just at 11%, which this 11% should go to at least 40% to 45% in the next 5 years' time. So there is a very, very big opportunity from 35 million households to somewhere around 150 million households in next 4 years or 5 years. Yes, it's more of what technology will come and all. Yes, wireless is here. But the wireless is going to convert into wired slowly as more and more digital requirements have come in for the individuals and households. So that's why if you talk about the health of the business, these 2 businesses are at very good health levels, and the growth is going to be there in both the businesses.

Yes, sir. Only my concern is the average...

I'm sorry to interrupt, Mr. Manohar. May we request you to return to the question queue for follow-up questions as there are several participants waiting for their turn? Next question is from the line of Rahul Jain, an individual investor.

So what is the average churn for other players in the Digital Cable? And what is our churn?

So the industry churn, if we talk about, is around 32% to 33% right now. Our churn is somewhere restricted to 16% to 17% yearly. So that is there.

And so like why is so much gap between the industry and our churn rate?

Because of the business management, because of the business relationship on the ground, because of the better team, because of leveraging our strength of being the #1 MSO, a lot of factors. The leadership factor, the massive penetration factor, the relationship, stronger team, all those things.

Okay. So my follow-up is like historically, our net pay channel cost grew by around 3% Y-o-Y basis. Given it will jump up by mid-teens for this year, do we see any adverse effect on churn rate as less subscribers become actively paying or more aware?

No, no, no. That is already stable. The NTO 3.0 things are already stable. And whatever increase in the rate has to happen from last year, you could say, from May onwards. And whatever that has to be affected on the ground, that has already taken place. By October, November, the ground has got stabilized totally. So we are not seeing that effect. If you see our operating margin, you will find that net pay channel cost has gone down this quarter, and overall increase in the nine months is just 13%, which is in the line of what the subscription income has increased.

My second question is like, can you share what is the project income in terms of size of the project, operational details, profitability and expected date of execution?

Yes. So this project is granted by Gujarat ISP Private Limited, that is GISL, after tendering of INR 50 crores, which includes the material and O&M, wherein the gram panchayat of 8,000 Gujarat villages under phase I and phase II of BharatNet project has to be made Wi-Fi enabled by supplying the materials and installation of the same at the gram panchayat premises. This project is almost over and we have taken the substantial revenues in this quarter. And rest of revenue will come in the further quarters as O&M. The margin is somewhere around 12% to 13% in this whole project.

Our next question is from the line of Mr. Vinay Jain from Karma Capital.

Yes. So I just wanted to check with you. So again, you have given growth prospect indications for both the Cable TV and Broadband.

Mr. Jain, you're not audible to us. It's not clear.

So with the earlier participant, you had mentioned the growth prospects for both the Cable TV and Broadband business. And for Broadband, again, for the industry, we are seeing that sort of a growth. So penetration has gone from 7%, say, a couple of years back to now, 11%, 12%. So again, industry, in a way, is growing, but somehow that growth is not getting reflected in our numbers. So again, I just wanted to understand what are we doing or maybe your maybe medium-term strategy to get the volume back for both Digital Cable and Broadband business. And again, at the same time, ensuring that we grow the business profitably.

Yes, you are right on that because, see, as I explained earlier also in the call that our B2C business of Broadband is mainly in Gujarat plus the 6 cities where we are present and we have made our own last mile network and everything, and B2C business is just restricted to that, which is like more of a growth area, because these are the bigger cities, you can say, capital cities. The whole of the Gujarat, where we have already #1 and penetrated the parts of that, there is Nagpur, Pune, Hyderabad, Varanasi, Patna, and Jaipur, all capital cities. If you see that, that's a B2C business. All over India level, we have gone for the B2B business, which is still to be taken off, you can say, because we are finalizing the technical aspects and all. Already, we just have around 65,000 subscribers, which has come in this year from the B2B, and we are hopeful that for the next quarter and the next year, this is going to be the years of B2B business to be taken up on the Broadband side. And there you can see that we will come back to our growth level and all. B2C, yes, whatever growth is happening right that is happening in the B2C and that too in the older markets. The new markets and all is going to give us more. Other players have grown because they have grown from 0 to this level. As you know that Airtel started B2B business around 3 years back and already they are doing good on that. Jio is mainly totally in the B2C, they are doing very good. So we are going to have the same effect as we go forward on that. So yes, you're right, from 20 million subscriber base, which was there around 2 years back, wired in 3 years' time has gone up to around 35 million. We are hopeful that next 4 to 5 years is going to be very high growth where you will see growth of the industry by 50%, 60%, 70% straightaway. And in 5 years' time, it will touch around 140 to 150 million. So that's the way we are looking forward to.

So ex of Jio, what would be the industry growth for broadband business?

I've already told you that we are looking forward on what the general reports are saying that what will happen. There are reports available on the investor deck that gives the projection from the industry that how it will shape. I think we have to refer that. We can have the talk on this, but I think it should be offline. It's going to be a lengthy talk.

Sure, sir. But the reason for asking that was, again, if you see, organically, the industry, there is a net addition which is happening. Vinit mentioned about a 20% growth on a year-on-year basis. So we, again, going through that inorganic route, the B2B acquisitions which we are doing. So ideally, our growth rate should be faster, right, than the high single digit which we are doing right now.

I think we have to debate this offline, whatever we have to do. So you're right on some aspects that we have to go more on the finer point, which I can explain, but it's going to be lengthy in this call. So we will have an offline debate on this, yes.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Rajiv Jha, an individual investor.

Sir, my question is, in terms of the Broadband active subscribers, we have kind of seemed to have settled down to a 12% to 13% kind of growth in terms of annual growth. Also, sir, like our subscriber count grew by 12.75% for FY '23. And sir, if I calculate your 9 month numbers, on pro rata basis, sir, we may exit this year around at 12.5%. So sir, this range of 12% to 13% would be a sustainable long-term growth rate for you in terms of active subscribers?

Rajiv, if you remember, we had given the earlier estimate that we are going to be somewhere around between 30,000 to 35,000 every quarter, somewhere around between 130,000 to 150,000, which we are at year-to-year basis 112,000, but this year, in the nine months, if we talk about, we are looking forward that with the next quarter, we are going to be somewhere around 110,000 to 120,000, somewhere in the next quarter. So somewhere you can say the average is going to be 30,000 per quarter rather than 35,000 or 40,000 per quarter. But yes, we look forward that will start continuing, because we were doing earlier 50,000, then came down to 40,000, right now it is coming to 30,000. We will look forward that once B2B business will come into the whole picture, we will start doing again 40k and that's what we are looking forward for the next quarter.

Okay, sir. Sir, to follow up that, also am I right in assuming that the ISP revenue growth for the annual basis going forward should be settled to around 16% to 17%?

Come again, Rajiv. Your voice was a bit quivering in the middle. Can you repeat the question?

Yes, sir. Sir, also am I right in assuming that the ISP revenue growth for annual basis going forward, we should settle at around 16% to 17%?

Yes. So right now if you see, 9 months, we are at around 11% right now. It will be somewhere around 16% to 17%, you're right. That's what we are looking forward for next financials. But we will be more clear. As I say that how the growth will happen in FY '25 or FY '26 or FY '27, that we will give more clarity on that in the next quarter as we go forward, once we are close to ending this financial year and see how we are shaping up in the quarter 4. So I will say let's just wait for 1 quarter before I give you those estimates.

Our next question is from the line of Srinivasan, an individual investor.

My name is Srinivasan. So basically, I'm looking at the investor presentation. I just want to know there is a flattish line in the growth of Cable TV business, okay? So I just want to know, going forward, are we expecting a growth in the consolidated Cable TV business? Or we expect the next 4 quarters to be flattish? Or is there any growth expected?

You're talking about revenue growth? Or you're talking about...

No, I am talking about the active subscribers and paying subscribers. I want to know...

This quarter is a bit muted for us because the gross addition is there, but due to churn and all, we have come back to the final one. As you know, this quarter the World Cup was there, which has given us good gain in the beginning. But in the end of November, we have started seeing some of the sub base going down and the churn a bit high after that. And by 31st December, we are seeing it is quite up. But we're hopeful as we have -- if you see earlier quarters and all, that we are doing the additions and all, and next year is good because IPL is coming, World Cup is coming for the T20. So every quarter you will see some good events are there, which is going to give us boost. And from this quarter, we have not expanded any new places and all, as you see. So we are going to expand in the next quarter and next year. So we are hopeful, as I said, that we are going to close this year closer to 10 million subscriber base. So yes, we are looking forward for the growth and that will happen.

And what about the Broadband business, the active subscribers? I can see 10 lakh active subscribers in the Broadband. That's a very good milestone. What is the rate of expansion in the broadband business in the next three years? What is the rate of active subscribers increase that you're expecting?

We have just given that we are doing around 30,000 per quarter right now. That quarter was exceptional. And we are looking forward that we again come back to the rate of 40,000 to 45,000 or closer to 50,000 in the next few quarters. So that's the plan which I've given.

My last question, I just want to know how much your CapEx you're planning. I understand that you are planning to increase your CapEx on Broadband as well as for Cable TV if needed. I just want to know how the CapEx will happen? Is it going to be an outside borrowing or is it going to be internal accruals? I just want to know.

No, we are doing all the CapEx through internal accruals. For the general businesses, we are doing it through internal accruals, that is for CATV and Broadband both. We have not gone for the borrowing and all. So it is all from the internal accruals for CapEx.

Ladies and gentlemen, this was the last question of the day. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

I would like to express my thanks to every participant who took their time out to attend the call. I would also like to thank Emkay for arranging this call. For any queries, please feel free to connect with Orient Capital, who are our investor relations advisors. Thank you once again.

On behalf of Emkay Global Financial Services, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.