Gufic Biosciences Limited (509079) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q2 FY '23-'24 Earnings Conference Call of Gufic Biosciences Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Ami Shah, Company Secretary. Thank you, and over to you, Ms. Ami.

Thank you, Sagar. Good evening, everyone, and a warm welcome to Gufic Biosciences Limited Earnings Conference Call for Q2 FY '23-'24. I have with me Mr. Pranav Choksi, Chief Executive Officer and the Whole-Time Director; Mr. Devkinandan Roonghta, Chief Financial Officer; and Mr. Avik Das from Investor Relations team to give the highlights of the business and financial performance of the company, and to take questions, if any. We will begin the call with the business highlights and overview by Mr. Avik, followed by Mr. -- followed by financial overview by the CFO. After the opening remarks, the operator will open the bridge for Q&A session. I'll now hand over the call to Mr. Avik. Thank you.

Thank you, Ami. I'll quickly provide you all with a comprehensive update on the current status of various initiatives and divisions of the company. I'll begin with the Indore facility. So the installation of equipment at our Indore facility is now complete, and we are progressing according to plan with the validation studies. Now within critical care division, our portfolio experienced a strong growth across key molecules. We have a portfolio that is especially targeting the fast-growing segments of primary and secondary health care facilities. The commercial launch of Dalbavancin post the DCGI approval was completed in this half of the year. And we are very happy to communicate that we've almost touched 400 lives in less than 60 days. And as you all know that this is a very unique product and perhaps first time in India, it's finding wide application and acceptance. On the Cavim front, which is our product Ceftazidime, Avibactam, it continues to be recognized among the top 20 launches. And it has established itself as a notable antibacterial injectable, and this is also the only brand in the top 20, which is an antibacterial injectable. Then on Immunocin Alpha front, we've concluded the trials for sepsis and we are anticipating the DCGI approval in Q3. And on the dual chamber bag front, we've been expecting the final price approval for Meropenem in Q3. And subsequent to that in Q3, we intend to launch this product as well. Now in critical care, we've also some updates from our R&D. So our R&D team has been able to develop key life-saving antifungal product that can be stored at room temperature now, which will eliminate the need for cold chain handling. This will ensure that we can now make this drug accessible to the remotest health care centers in India and at affordable prices. So this is a great R&D achievement for us. And hopefully, we'll be able to replicate similar things for our other portfolio products as well. We are -- our first-in-class antifungal product is also set for launch at a very revolutionary price point. This will obviously mean that the accessibility and affordability of this drug goes up. Coming to Sparsh. In Sparsh, we had mapped out almost 8,000 hospitals and very happy to communicate that we are -- we have almost reached out to 1,000 hospitals, and we're doing business with almost 1,000 hospitals now. We've successfully launched in 12 states, and we intend to add another 4 states and our SKU count has already gone up to about 96, and most of our sales touch points in this division is doing well and is profitable. We've also launched a very unique product called SeraSeal in this division. It's a hemostatic agent, and this has gained acceptance in leading hospitals and it has started demonstrating its effectiveness in actual surgical procedures. So this, of course, Gufic is the only company in India, which has this product. On the Ferticare front, we've established presence in nearly 60% of all IVF centers in India. And our products -- our brands and our products are the go to choice for over 50% of the gynecologists. We are also working on recombinant alternatives to critical hormones. This will make us self-reliant and ensure steady supply and hopefully, in the next 18 to 24 months, we should be able to bring these products out in the market. There's some interesting update with Thymosin Alpha-1 here. We've concluded the trials for endometriosis, and we've got excellent results there. We are also working -- we are conducting trials for recurrent implantation failure with Thymosin Alpha-1 and the initial results are very exciting for that as well. And we'll keep you posted as the trials progress over there. In our Healthcare, Stellar and Spark division, the inclusion of the ENT specialty has strengthened our antibiotic portfolio, enhancing our capability to address larger medical needs. We've introduced Polmacoxib in the orthopedic specialty. Dydrogesterone has also been introduced here to fortify our reach to gynecs with this product. And the earlier launched products, Gufican and Gufibis, they continue to gain momentum in this particular division. In Aesthaderm and Neurocare division, with Stunnox' success in the split face trial has created a lot of awareness and confidence within the fraternity. Today, we have almost 1,100 cosmetologists have tried, tested and accepted Stunnox as a product. Our work for registering the fillers is on track, and we will keep you all updated with the outcomes of that. And we have set up a specialized neurology team in this half of the year, and to strategically target the critical neurology segment through our brand, Zarbot. So that team continues to reach out and educate the doctors of the various indications with which Zarbot can be used. On the international business front, we've received one new product approval from Sri Lanka, Chile, Myanmar and Malaysia each. Along with that, we also received an injectable product approval from Australia and Brazil this half of the year. This opens up some of these very lucrative markets for this product as well as other products because our facility now gets approved by these 2 regulators. And as on date, we have almost 200 products now registered across regulated and semi-regulated markets with a presence in more than at least 40 countries, and we have a pipeline of about 150-plus products under registrations as well. So all in all, we are well poised to continue our growth and success in each of these initiatives and divisions. As you all are aware, we remain very committed to our innovation and completing our expansion, going live with it and overall addressing the health care needs. So with that, I'll hand over the call to our CFO, Roonghta sir for the financial updates. Thank you.

Thank you, Avik. Good evening, everybody. I'm going to highlight the financial performance of Q2 of financial year '23-'24 versus the Q2 of financial '22-'23 as well as the half yearly performance of financial year '22-'23 versus half yearly financial of '23-'24. The current Q2 of financial year '23-'24, the total revenue from the operation is INR 200.2 crores, whereas the previous year quarter, Q2 quarter was INR 175.7 crores. The EBITDA for current financial year Q2 is INR 39.7 crores, whereas Q2 of last financial year was INR 33.4 crores. EBITDA margin for current Q2 is 18.4%, whereas the previous Q2 was 19%. Profit before tax is INR 30.90 crores compared to INR 27.3 crores. Profit after tax was INR 23.2 crores compared to INR 20.2 crores. If I see the half yearly performance of current financial year versus previous financial year, total revenue from the operation is INR 410.8 crores compared to INR 341.3 crores. The EBITDA is INR 76.1 crores compared to INR 67 crores. EBITDA margin is 18.5% compared to 19.6% in last half year. Profit before tax is INR 59 crores compared to INR 55.5 crores last year. Profit after tax INR 43.8 crores compared to last year's INR 41.3 crores. Thank you.

Mr. Sagar, we can now take the question and answers round.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ Bhavya Sonawala ], who is an individual investor.

Yes, yes. So I have 2 questions. My first question is, how long do we think it's going to take us to see decent revenues coming from Sparsh? Just trying to understand that we have launched in 12 states. So how long do you think we reach most of the states, and we see some kind of sizable revenue coming from this Sparsh division?

Hi, [ Bhavya ], so Pranav here. Basically, for Sparsh, the way we are going is we are planning that to comb state by state. So when we talk about sizable revenues, it will all depend on how much PCPM do we actually reach for a particular, I would say, zone or a particular state, let's put it that way. So our immediate target is that we started off with 33 people. Now we have gone to around 42 or 43 people. When I am talking about 43 people, those are the actual account managers or the people on the field. And then, of course, you have the subsequent managers. So right now, the PCPM would have reached close to around 6 to 7 lakhs. We hope that we can reach 10 lakhs. And of course, this is something which is substantial, one reason being because we have almost 96 SKUs being sold by them. So they have a good basket and that's why the PCPM is justified. According to me, one -- whenever we see a 10 lakh PCPM coming in, we just put one more person in that area for the expansion. So again, talking about substantial things. So once you do the math, doing around close to INR 3 crores, INR 4 crores per month is something, but when I been substantial, we hope that we can reach an average of approximately INR 6 crores to INR 7 crores per month by the end of the year -- by the end of the financial year.

Okay. So you mentioned currently, it's around 7 lakh.

Yes.

That's correct. Okay.

It's around INR 3 crores right now as, an average, yes.

Makes sense. Understood. Just one last question. In the last call, you had just mentioned that the investment we did in the new plant for someone else would be higher. I'm not trying to quote you on that, but just trying to understand what has enabled us to get this kind of value that we have? Is it something on the plant packaging side or if you can explain how that -- how have we managed to make it much more valuable for us than what others might have taken?

I say I didn't -- what I -- actually, so you really put me on the spot. What I meant was with pure humility is just because of the experience that we have in Navsari, in terms of what is relevant, what is not relevant and what it is redundant and especially when we talk about economies of scale, sometimes if we put, let's say, 2 lyophilizer or 3 lyophilizer, it would still cost you INR 200 crores to INR 300 crores. But if sometimes we put 6 lyophilizers and a little bit of modification in terms of the capacity of the condensing capacity and technical things like the packing config and other config, that is where the expertise of being in the field of manufacturing of injectables really helped us for that we are a little bit ahead of the curve in terms of our understanding what is needed, not needed. So what I meant was the capacity in such, the capacity which we have in terms of economies of scale is something which we are trying to use in our favor. And by when -- by this, what I meant is because of the designing of the Grade B area, the Grade C area, how compact can we make it, how compact can we try to make the prouder processing unit, the lyophilization unit, even the packing hall for that matter. Even the quality control systems in terms of the equipment and the stability chambers. That is what I meant. But I didn't mean that. I mean it's just said that tomorrow, because of this knowledge bath, we are somewhere much, I would say, efficient, I would like to say, nothing else.

Okay. Okay. Understood. If you don't mind, can I just squeeze in a last question?

Yes, sure. Please go ahead.

Yes. Just trying to -- about Arisia, the aesthetic clinic we have, are we planning to open a few more? And do you see this becoming a profit center vertical -- different vertical that we might enter into?

Actually, [ Bhavya ], there are too many things happening, right? So I think Arisia was clearly brought with a vision of making like a training center, at the same time making like a brainstorming center for doctors to come all over and get the new -- get trained for new equipments or they have their own domain -- knowledge domain, which they can come and share it with other team members also. At the same time, it can be also used for certain new trials or certain new products. Our end goal is to actually sell botulinum toxin or Stunnox and we want to sell our pillars and the different aesthetic products which we have. At the same time, we feel that in India, we have amazing doctors. But at the same time, what's the people of India need in terms of the population, catering to 140 crores to 145 crores, we need a good set of doctors who not only are, I would say, focused or a little bit densely available in Bombay, Delhi, Chandigarh or Bangalore. If we can get centers which are set up in Tier 2 towns also, that is where the new growth and the new India is coming from. So we also hope that with Arisia, of course, we are opening -- that doesn't mean that -- so the strategy will not be to create more Arisia as a profit center, the strategy would be to create training centers and knowledge dissemination, I mean, dissemination centers around India, where there's a catchment area. Like opening Arisia in Chandigarh and Delhi might not work for us., ,but opening something in Nashik and then Hyderabad and in Raipur for that matter in those towns is much better where we can look at more and more, I would say, doctor in discussion and doctor knowledge spreading. So this is where I would come from. So I think as -- before we go to the next call, I think there have been some questions which have come also by mail before and by some of you, I think I'll take this forward right now. So in terms of Indore, there are a lot of people who are asking us in terms of the capacities and the impact it would have. And right now, of course, we have Navsari and we have also, for that matter, a good capacity in Navsari. So why is that Indore required? So just to share something with you all. I think apart from the Indian pharma market, which we will go through that level of expansion, we also feel that specifically the accessibility of injectable products or ICU products is something which we foresee going on and expanding a big way. And for that matter, I feel that -- we feel that the Navsari facility should be almost full of capacity by June or July 2024. And that is where the need would come for Indore facility, where I am sure that in the first few years, it might be maybe 25%, 30%, followed by maybe 40%, 50% and followed by 70%, but that is a requirement that we feel that if we try to make it at that time, we will be too late. And also every new facility has their own gestation period in terms of regulatory guidelines, getting the approvals done. And nowadays, more and more sophistic. I think as you have seen in the guideline, the guidelines are getting much more stringent. The countries are getting much more -- they expect much more in terms of documentation. So we feel that even if we get the facility ready and the production started very soon, then the entire, I would say, time line would still be around 6, 8 months where we actually gain steam. So that's the relevance of having an Indore facility kept it ready, and I feel we have enough molecules, enough products in the pipeline. At the same time, we have still a lot of geographies to, I would say, get into, which we feel we will be ready with the Indore facility coming up. So this was just one question on the way. So I will try to answer maybe some questions which now are coming beforehand also for the meeting. This is something new which we are trying. So I think -- but we can go on to the next caller, please.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Adityapal from Motilal Oswal Financial Services.

Congratulations on a really good performance. So Pranav, just wanted to understand the growth that has come in. So where is the growth coming from? Has it been broad-based? Is it coming from domestic or international? So if you can just give me some color on that?

I would still say that, of course, the growth, as I mentioned before, let's divide the growth into 2 parts. One is domestic and export. I mean domestic is still ruling the growth, I would say, is story much more. And that is also having maybe one inorganic reason also. The inorganic reason would be Sparsh to some extent because that is something which we had initiated only in the month of -- end of last year -- end of financial year, last year, but that is one of the reasons. Also, as I mentioned in the critical care, whatever shortfall we have, so even though there's erosion in prices but itself, the market has reacted, which we saw a big lull last year. That market has expanded, plus certain benefits coming from the infertility market and also as Avik mentioned during his introduction, so Dydrogesterone on the infertility and gynec market. Then hMG, the new launch, which we have done with the help of hCG traces, and also now with the help of, I would say, Polmacoxib in the marketing division. And to some extent, I would say botulinum toxin also. Why I say to some extent, because on the bigger scheme of things in terms of the company, botulinum toxin still has a small base. Even though it's increasing by adding maybe 50, 80 doctors month-over-month, we still see a market where the product itself is almost doubling up all more in a yearly basis, but still it's a small component compared to the entire company. Coming to the international front, international front, I would say the growth is there, but not as aggressive as the domestic part. The reason for the growth being limited, but we have almost now the business which is mostly secured in Germany, Portugal, Canada and Brazil. So nowadays, like I say, and that's why the Indore facility plays a big role. The capacity is more or less will be chock-a-blocked by June, July. So I would say if the growth is, let's say, 10, right now, I would still say 6 to 6.5 would be from domestic and 4, 4.5 would be from export.

Understood. Understood. So this really helps. And the new products that we are coming in for which we have done R&D. So what would be the market size, revenue potential for those products?

So there are several. So if I say in critical care, when we talk about the new antifungal which we are coming up with or, let's say, the sepsis product which are coming up with, it's almost like let's focus on the antifungal first. So antifungal, there options of the echinocandins or fungis all the way to a basic amphotericin B to the basic ketoconazole. So the entire market would be around INR 500 crores, INR 600 crores. But of course, this entire market would just help with the new addition of antifungal because when a patient has to take an injection every day, instead of that, the patient would require only one injection in a week. I mean it's like one injection on day 1 and one injection on day 5 or day 6 depending on the patient's load. So we would be addressing a part of this market, which is anyway growing in a much bigger way, like I said. And then let me we give you an example of infertility products. So right now, you have this hMG, which is a human menopausal gonadotropin, which is -- plays a big role in the IVF treatments, where the quality of the ovulation -- I mean, it is not only the ovulation time, the right ovules, the number of eggs available for fertilization. I would say, they all play a big role and this hMG plays a big role. So there, in the last 2 to 3 years, we really have tried to find out the reason that why a particular hMG maybe works excellent in patient A, but whereas sometimes there is an issue of a cycle going wrong in patient B. Some -- as you know, most of you all will be aware when IVF cycle is there, some people are lucky in cycle 1. Some people require 2 cycles. Some people are so unfortunate. For whatever reason, they have to wait for cycle 3 or cycle 4. There always the reason might not be inflammation. So what are the reasons where by which the patient has an issue? So either they have some intrinsic body issue like things like endometriosis or some people have some genetic defect or some people have some other, I would say, diabetes and other complications lead to some issue where there's inflammation in the body by which the fertilized egg doesn't get implanted in the thing. So there are multiple reasons. But one of the reasons can be where the poor quality of the ovules or ovum coming out, and that is where if we can come up with a much more better form of hMG, which is much more standard. So be it patient A or patient B, let's increase the chance of the doctor making that lady's IVF cycle successful and that is where the research is coming from. So the hMG market itself is around INR 200 crores, INR 300 crores. But also if you see since the hMG had an issue, a lot of doctors actually use a recombinant FSH in that case to get the product done. But they would still prefer a pure hMG if they could get the result. Putting something recombinant is also good, but it's just FSH. A combination of hMG -- hMG is basically a combination of FSH and LH. And when you have a better form of or a purer form of hMG, like we have Ferring -- I think Ferring's Menopur is the biggest example. And they're doing a wonderful job globally. Still the drug of choice would be then pure hMG rather than the rFSH. And that is where we feel that if we can launch this molecule, and that's why our trials are successful. And we feel we are quite getting good results. And we are doing a sort of a time lapse study also with a doctor here in Mumbai, where we actually are understanding the actual cycle of like a proper -- this entire menopausal cycle of a lady, where we actually once we give a lady the injections of our hMG, how was her issue before and once we give the our hMG injections, how the quality of ovum and the entire ovulation cycle has become so upgraded. So such things also help us to address a bigger market. So that is the INR 200 crores, INR 300 crores of the hMG plus the market of the rFSH. And then followed by other innovations like botulinum toxin, we look at new drug delivery systems, which are like, I would say, topical or which are in the form of type B for pain management. So we try to get these different things done. I'm not saying that we are successful. We try to work on 10 things, maybe 6 or 8 of them fail. We are only successful in maybe 2 to 4. But this helps us to mainly come up with some differentiation, which eventually we can cater to the market. So again, different markets and different things will be there. But we are trying to make a mark and make some difference there. So I hope I answered your question. So I cannot put a number to it, but it's different segments and different products, giving us different opportunities.

Understood. Understood. So thank you so much for highlighting and congratulations again.

Like I said -- thank you, Aditya. Now before we move on to the next question, there have been other questions from the market in terms of the new, I would say, tenant block and the DCB also. So there have been some questions that why the DCB got delayed and when we have been talking about some work, so I'll try to answer those questions also. So just to share that the DCB was launched -- I mean, it was planned to launch last year, and we had all their equipment, all the inventories, everything is we are holding it since more than a year. But then there is also a question of getting an approval of price from the NPPA department. So luckily around a month ago, we got a price approval for piperacillin and tazobactam, but unfortunately, the price increase was only 15%. And I think that price increase was not able for us to justify the launch of the piperacillin and tazobactam because the cost -- the MRP is around close to INR 400, INR 450 and 15% doesn't cover the cost of the bag. So then we decided that as Meropenem is the only product which we use -- which looks viable now. So basically, products which are above INR 1,000 or INR 1,500, which -- in MRP, what I'm talking about, where the cost of the bag can be justified. We are trying to talk to the NPPA and explaining them the U.S. fees of our product and the benefits of no dilution errors and no cross-contamination and complete collapsing bag with no atmospheric air getting into. So we are trying to convince them that why a 15%, maybe a little bit more than 15% -- I mean, we are demanding almost close to 40%, 50%. But why 15%, 20% is not enough because innovation requires that additional push for us to go and get that extra valuation done. So we are trying to do that. But however, let's see, I mean, we are trying our level best to put our case towards the government of India and that's the reason we are about there. And I think the second part of your question was why was -- I mean once we launch it, what sort of traction would we expect? So again, let me clarify that these dual chamber bags would not completely replace the vials. So vial market will still continue to grow, which is anyway going to be part of our product basket, we are just giving a differentiated products where our doctors can always give this option additionally to your patients, depending on their profile that this is an additional thing which is much more of a safer product. The patient compliance is better as well as the administration compliance are also much more superior than what it is otherwise. So this is where I think we feel that the product is much more superior and the main can take it. I think it will be going to be a great thing. So I think that's it. I think nothing from my side. I think if we don't have any other questions, I think Ami Shah, or if we have anything? Hello?

[Operator Instructions] So we have the next question from the line of Yash Tanna from ithought Portfolio Management Services.

Pranav sir, congratulations on a good performance. Sir, I wanted to understand on the cash flow front, seems from last year -- it seems to have improved because of decreasing inventories, but our trade receivables have again been on the higher side. So can you tell us the reason for this?

Yes. So I think 2 reasons for that specifically. If you see that we also have right now created this new Sparsh division, where the entire impact is where we directly bill to the hospital and the hospital cycle of payment is all the way between 60 days to 120 days, depending on their consumption, which is normally there. So that is one of the reasons we have seen the beginning, of course, assuming INR 3 crores per month for the last 3, 4 months, I'm assuming that is one of the reasons it has gone up. Secondly, all the contract manufacturing business of Gufic has now almost moved to -- I mean, on paper, it's almost 90 days, but we look at almost 120 days, which is there. So when you factor in the contract manufacturing and the Sparsh, which is the 2 reasons which we feel that it is there. So collection is coming in and moving on. But as and when the turnover is increasing, these are the 2 main divisions which is a little bit stretching our collection cycle as of now.

Right, sir. And so I mean, we are expecting Sparsh to grow to the run rate that you called out. And that means that this should remain on the higher side even going forward, right?

Yes, yes. So I'll tell you the reason. So there were 2 options. This was a dilemma which we had earlier when we were selling in critical care or infertility. Sometimes when we try to push the distributors for payment, there was always a leakage of margin which was happening down the line. And that is where sometimes the interest cost for us per year is around maybe 8% plus or minus -- 8% to 8.5% plus or minus. But sometimes just because the hospital pays the distributors after maybe 90 days or 120 days or even sometimes 150 days on a higher side I am saying, very extreme side, otherwise 120 days. They used to take the margins of almost 20% and 25% instead of the designated 10%, which we have. So as a company, we always felt that then that if we have to give an additional credit of around 60 days or 90 days. At the same time, we are getting real-time data what the hospital is buying, at what rate they are buying? What is their consumption potential versus what they're buying from us. So I thought this was a small price to pay because interest point of view, if I consider 8% on a 12 month and then 2, 3 months even if I consider around close to 2%, that's a small price to pay against the 25% -- I mean, the additional 15% I was paying to a channel partner and I had no access to data. So yes, you're right, even when we increase it to INR 6 crores, I would still like to deal directly with the hospitals in those cases, why are these channel partners where we control the collection because the transparency and the pricing and the margin -- especially, the margin dilution is not there.

Right, sir. Definitely makes sense. And one question on the borrowings. So what is our debt repayment plan now? And we have also raised some money. So what is our debt repayment plan now?

So right now, I think the debt repayment would be done by November, I mean, because the announcement was in October. So the entire INR 99.99 crores, which was received from Motilal Oswal via the preferential offering would be going towards debt. So 50% of the INR 99.99 crores would go against -- go towards term loan and the remaining would go towards the CC limit. There also, we are waiting the term loans, so the moment the term loan gives us a benefit of where there's no prepayment option coming up, which will come up in maybe April and will come up in next June, July next year. So we will be using the same amount which is parked in the CC limit, which has the same interest percentage to be paying off the long term thing. So this is what we are planning. So you will see this effect in, I would say, December or I would say March balance sheet when it is out.

The next question is from the line of Ayush Mittal from Mittal Analytics.

So my question was similar to the last participant around the weakening working capital. So -- though you have been explaining that it's because of the extended payment cycle by our customers, but then if we look at a position like we are the contract manufacturing partner to most of the major payment fees and we bring a lot to the table in terms of new innovations, lower costs and so many other things that we do. So why are we not being able to control our trade cycle and also the inventory management, like overall working capital, if I see, it was improving really well over the last 2, 3 years, and now it has deteriorated quite a lot. So that is where I would like to have some more insight.

So let's say your inventory question first and, of course, Roonghta sir is also here, he can maybe back me up once I'm done. So the inventory cycle, if you see historically of Gufic and otherwise also only during the time of COVID, we had, I would say, sorry, squeezing of the cash flow cycle because a lot of -- it was -- I think we are making it today and it is really going to the patient on the end of the meet, you get my point. Otherwise, we had been trying to put channel on the CNF level and that channel to put the level at our Navsari stock and we should at least maintain some stock. Will any injection when it comes, I'll just explain to you. So let's say, any injection, the raw material comes, the raw material takes almost around 15 days to 20 days to test. After 15 days to 20 days to test, it takes approximately around, I would say, production of around 5 days, followed by the lyophilization of another maybe 5 to 6 days. Then there is another sanity testing of around 15 days. Then after that, there is a logistics of around maybe 6 to 7 days. And this is why I'm talking about the majority of the turnover because this is including exports, and this is including the domestic market at the same time the other thing. I'll come to contract manufacturing separately. So contract manufacturing contributes to around 20%, 25%. So I'll come to that separately. So because of this, the entire stock of RM, which has to be kept, the entire stock of the WIP, which has to be kept, because even during WIP, there is also a question of having certain tests which have to be done, which sometimes they have to be sent to an external leg, for example, I'll tell you for hCG and hMG, we need to send this -- once the vial is made, we need to send it to an external testing laboratory by which because of animal testing, we come to know the potency of the product. The same thing we use in our statins, same thing with botulinum toxin also. So in all these cases, we need to wait for almost a month and 1.5 months after the production is done for the product to actually be used and send to the market. So that is one reason for the inventory, which we've given. Also one of the reasons we also spoke about in the earlier calls, the major inventory of almost INR 22 crores, which we see right now also because of the dual chamber bags, which we have been carrying forward since last year, which we were supposed to launch last year around maybe Q3, we are still stuck because the NPPA permission has not come. So I hope now it should come because the [indiscernible] permission has come and the Meropenem permission will come now in Q3. We hope so with the desired MRP depending on the judgment of the honorable government. But we feel that we can launch the dual chamber bags and that would help us to remove this INR 22 crore inventory at least by the next year. The third thing is the reason for inventory, a lot of validation batches are done. So today, before we get into Indore, we get you a lot of R&D batches. I mean R&D is done and then there are validation batches done in Navsari, which might be for Navsari export or it might be for Indore also, where we have to take 3 batches at least, which is a minimum batch size. And then once from there, we show our tech transfer to Indore or we use the remaining batches to make dossiers, which are eventually used to also register the product in international markets of choice. So because of all these factors, we need to create -- there are always a substantial inventory -- like until when the Germany business started, the vancomycin batches were taken in, I think in 2017, and then the actual approval came by 2018 and then by, I think, January 2019 was it was shipped with only a 1-year shelf life because that was the only thing which was possible. Even though we had a 3-year shelf life, we -- I think almost 1.5 years went away in this entire process, and then we had only 1.5 years left on the shelf life. So this is more or less what we do with validation batches. When we go to U.S. -- I mean, when we go to Indore and there will be U.S. markets involved, we will have to carry inventory for validation batches till the actual approval comes until the U.S. comes for inspection. So we will be carrying maybe 5, 10, 15 product validation inventory for maybe a period of 1 year or 1.5 years also until the actual approval comes for our generics also to start off with. Forget that ANDAs which we'll be filing later on. So this is an -- other question was it. Coming to the contract manufacturing part for which the trade receivables and issues. And the main issue there is, be it overall cycle thing which has normally come after COVID, especially after COVID when the inventory cycle got dropped off, be it a Abbott or be it a Glenmark or be it X, Y, Z, I can name 5, 7 companies, which are the major contract manufacturing partners of us. They all have now made it mandatory in the PO that it's a 90-day cycle, which is there. The same 90-day cycle, we give it to also some to our third-party people where we buy our products from also. So in the pharma industry according to me, and this is what we follow, we almost follow the 90-day cycle where the actual money comes after 120 days. So this is the main reason, which I feel, why -- which this is done. We, of course, at the same time, it's not something good. I think the domestic marketing in terms of our own branded business, that is something which is really improving and that's why you see a little bit -- it's not the detrimental of that thing is not much more. It's only related to the Sparsh and what you call the CMO. Our own branded business, the cycle has been much more healthy. On the contrary, it's much more -- it's improving also quarter-by-quarter. I think these are my feedback, but I think Roonghta sir, maybe you can add if I have missed out something.

For the final quarter, which has jumped to INR 215 crores compared to INR 175 crores, there is jump of around INR 40 crores. And if I add GST 12% average, so there has been increasing in the debtors by 90 days, which comes to around INR 50 crores. And remaining is because of the Sparsh division where the credit period is more than 90 days. Average, our credit period is around 97, 98 days, including GST.

Okay. So sir, like Pranav sir, you also highlighted like we have been emphasizing on our direct branded business, which goes to the consumers. How much would that be of our overall business? And in that segment, what will be the net working capital?

Yes. So let's put it -- let's put Sparsh out of it. Without Sparsh also, it will be around close to 52% to 53%. So we are branded business in India.

Yes. And in this, what is the net working capital days that is in terms of...

There I think -- on an average, our -- so inventory cycle put aside, if I just put my first sale in the market, we get our money average between 45 to 50 days.

As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Ms. Ami Shah for closing comments.

Thank you. Thank you, everyone. If you have any further questions, please feel free to reach out to our Investor Relations team. I'll just repeat the disclaimer before we end the call. The information statement and analysis made in this document describing the company's objectives, projections and estimates are forward-looking statements and no representation or guarantee, either expressed or implied is provided in relation to this document. The document should not be regarded by recipient as a substitute for the exercise of their own judgment. The company undertakes no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements whether there is a new result of us, new information or future events or otherwise. With this, we can end today's call. We thank you all for joining.

Thank you. On behalf of Gufic Biosciences Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.