HDFC Bank Limited (HDFCBANK) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to HDFC Bank's Annual Analyst Meet 2022. We are ready to begin our first session. For that, I would like to invite Mr. Sashidhar Jagdishan, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Kaizad Bharucha, Executive Director; and Mr. Srinivasan Vaidyanathan, Chief Financial Officer to present overview of the bank.

Okay. We'll get started now. Good morning to all. We'll have Sashi open and -- open the conference and talk for some time and various topics that we will cover. At the end of the session, after he is concluded, we'll have enough time for question and answer session across the room for however long we all want. So with that, without much ado, Sashi, you want to get started.

Yes. Thank you. Thank you all for coming over here. It's such a great pleasure to meet each one of you in person. Sometimes -- while Zoom calls are efficient, but it's always a pleasure to meet all of you in flesh and blood, at least once in a while. I know ever since even 4th of April, a lot of questions -- we have been bombarded a lot of questions as to what is the rationale for the merger. But before I get on to that, I think let us try and just go through as to what has happened over the last couple of years in a nutshell and where we are positioned, both from an economy perspective and as a bank perspective. I think I must say that when you start to travel, when you start to look at all the economies across the globe, I think India has navigated the pandemic rather well or rather admirably. I think all of you would agree. I'm not an expert, but I think when you compare with all the economic metrics, I think we have done reasonably well. That's #1. #2 is, in March, we were exiting very beautifully both from an economy perspective and also as a bank exiting COVID. I think interest rates were reasonably benign. Inflation was benign. I think we were probably on a role as an economy. And we had at least projected a 9-plus percentage GDP growth for FY '23. But unfortunately, as all of you would know, I think the Ukraine, Russia, so-called special operations, was a spoilsport, and you started to have a lot of these metrics go awry. But having said that, I think even inflation, inflation probably peaked as we speak in September -- in April. But I think the kind of orchestration between both RBI and the Ministry of Finance or the government, I think, has been admirable in terms of, to see a gentle landing, and we probably would expect the inflation, which will come down and then go up to about peak in September, and then go back to the pre-COVID levels by March of '23. And that is our expectation with reasonable conservatism of the oil prices. I think that is something that we should be extremely happy about. Interest rates, I think the governor probably has explained it so beautifully in his remarks, both MPC and also in subsequent interactions with the press. I think what we have seen of 140 basis points, maybe another 75, 100 basis points is what we probably would expect. But having said that, whether it is the inflation numbers, whether it's the interest rate, whether it's the delta in the interest rates, I think the country has seen it over -- if you look at the last 10-year history, I think we have seen all these levels before, and we have had a reasonably healthy growth rates of about 5% and 8% over the last 10 years. So similarly, here too, I think our expectations of about 7.25% to 7.5% of GDP growth, it will still be the best globally. And even if, for whatever reason, oil becomes a bit stubborn and moves to $115 to $120, I think we still will see a reasonable amount of growth, which will not be visible in any part of the world. So to that extent, I think from a macro perspective, India is very resilient. So we are in -- despite whatever people may say in terms of some amount of shocks, I do believe that, yes, the people, the lower income, the lower -- middle and the lower income will get impacted, have got impacted with kind of high inflation. You will see some amount of their discretionary spending postponed, but otherwise, the middle and the upper middle income, I think where largely salary based, we have seen a fair amount of wage inflation to absorb these kind of inflation rate impacts, I think, it should continue to be buoyant in terms spend, in terms of their demand for credit, and that is what is going to be driving the economy. I think India has a lot of levers, before I just close on the macro side. I think whether it's a China plus one strategy, whether it is the fact that in 8 to 10 months' time, one should, I think you will start hear this from Kaizad, and from Rakesh, and Nirav later on, the kind of CapEx, the government capital expenditure, that is likely to be unveiled in about 8 to 10 months' time or even private CapEx. There are certain sectors, which had drive -- around February, March decent amount of people, who probably would have put up unveiled private capital -- capital expenditure, drawing plans. And they may be postponing this for a while, but still there is a huge amount which is likely to come up once things become rather than normal. So in that context, I think we are probably -- India is a great destination to be in. We are privileged to be part of this country and more so in financial services. I think a $3 trillion economy, going to a $5 trillion in 7, 8 to 12 years' time is something that is very much doable. We are a player on Indian economy -- I think there is an echo. I think we've always been a player on the Indian economy, 60% being consumption, whether it's retail or corporate consumption. I think we have been well positioned in that. We are also equally well positioned on the term side or the capital expenditure side and also on the government spending, where we are now with a renewed interest, getting into the government business as well. So as a company, I think we will be riding this wonderful wave of what India is likely to give us over the next 5, 10 years. We will be the third largest economy in the world after the U.S. and Japan. So it's something that we are all eager to be well positioned. When you look at even at the other indicators. You look at the per capita GDP on a purchasing parity basis, I think at $7,000-plus, I think we are one of the -- we are equivalent to probably where U.S. was in 1982. We are at an inflection point where the demand for consumer durables, the demand for financial products is going to be on the rise. So we are well positioned on that from an economic perspective. So this is where we are. In addition to that, I think what has changed and what was something added our interest, and that is the reason why I'm sure a lot of people would be waiting to hear as to our thought process, our rationale of the merger. I know we have not gone on to the media too often. So whilst HDFC Limited has shared their side of the story, I think it's important that you sort of hear our side of the story as well. So let me just tell you a story. I think this is sometime in May of -- the same time, May of 2021, I think we had a strategic session of the bank just post the Wave 2. And we did sort of invite a lot of macro strategists in the meeting. And one of the themes that the macro strategy covered was on the housing sector. All of you probably know this that the housing sector has been languishing for a long time. And it was not for anything, it was purely only from a self-disciplined perspective from this builder developer fraternity. I think all of us have been a victim to that. We realize that projects used to get hugely delayed. The delivery of homes used to get anywhere between 6, 8, 10 years. So this was the kind of a malaise, which was there in the system and the people really -- citizens got a bit disenchanted about it. But then one of the best regulations that could come about during -- in our post 75 years of independence was the RERA Act. I think that was the clinching, that was a game changer. All of us know that this particular Act had a lot of teeth and therefore you had some amount of a fear psychosis in this particular fraternity. At the same time, in 2014, the Reserve Bank of India started the asset quality review of banks. Then you had the ILFS issue. The asset quality reviews spilled over to the NBFCs as well. I think the combination of the asset quality review, a combination of what happened in RERA, I think strangulated these developers and the builder fraternity, where one needed to ensure that you had a huge amount of financial discipline as one would expect any other entity to be in. So that was a game changer. That sort of changed the entire thought process, et cetera. The builders had nowhere to go. They had to drop their prices by about 20%, 25%. You started to see, as we were entering COVID, apart from bankers, apart from capital markets, I think the only other sector, which had a lot of buoyancy during the start of the pandemic was housing sales and you started to see that going on an upsurge. So the -- by the time in March '20 to June '20, you started to see the financial balance sheet of developers become better. Two, the inventory levels came down from 60 months to 20, 30 months. Three, the most important, the affordability. I think with wage inflation for over the last 8 years, the affordability of end consumer was huge. In take home pay of INR 100, the home loan EMI used to be about INR 50. And now it has come down about INR 20, INR 23. That is what the macro strategist told us in our presentation. In addition to that, thanks to media, thanks to internet, thanks to communication, the aspiration levels of people to have a decent home really has gone up tremendously. No more is it restricted in the top 100 towns of the country. But now as you go down to the Tier 3, Tier 4, Tier 5, Tier 6, whether it is a [ Palanpur ], whether it is Jogindar Nagar, whether it is Manali, whether it is even beyond, whether it is Haldwani, you will see the demand for good homes taking a kind of dramatic progression. The estimate that people, the experts have put in is INR 2.5 billion home loans -- 2.5 billion square foot of home space. That is the kind of demand that is there going to be from the housing sector. And this is going to power Indian economy in addition to whatever I have just said, over the next 5 to 7 years. So when this was presented and when we realize that, where are we in this particular space, it was a bit of a shocker. Because here, we have one of the largest distribution. The macro is telling a lot of things, which is going to be powering Indian economy. And we are -- we have always waxed -- eloquent on having a great arrangement with HDFC Limited in terms of distribution of home loans. But what happened? We were not there anymore. We were probably -- all along in these 27 years, we never realized it, a, because of sector reverse languishing, and we had lots of things to grow. We have our plate full. Not that we didn't have our plate full. We still have our plate full, at mortgages, we have a runway over the next 20, 30 years. No problems at all from a growth perspective. But we see another sector, which can overlay on whatever we are trying to do. And we are not there in the truest sense, because there are a lot of others who are doing 3 to 4x the distribution with the -- it became a bit of a shock for us. Then our young CFO had presented in the same forum, that where do we stand on this? He made a lot of revelations. He and his team to all us, I'm not too sure whether the leadership team is aware, but he did. #1 is, we realized that out of our 70 million-odd customers, only 2% of our customers had an HDFC home loan. That itself was a shocker. Because when you look at some of the presentations, as we go by, you had credit card penetration, which is in the 20s. You have the unsecured penetration, which was in the teens. You had vehicle loans in about 6%. But the home loan was just 2%. That is very surprising. Then he made another revelation. He said that, look, while 2% have taken loans, there are 5% of your customers, who have taken loans -- home loans from smattering of a lot of other banks and this cluster of 5% is equivalent to another HDFC Retail bank, and that was a shocker. And that sort of -- really sort of maybe set to say that, look, what are we missing? Why is it that we're not really selling home loans the way that we are supposed to do, considering the fact that it is an emotional product. So when your peel the onions and go down, then you realize the ground reality. If you take any product for us, we have, over a period of time, what are products we have manufactured, whether it's unsecured, whether it's credit cards, whether it's vehicle loans, whether it's -- when I say vehicle, means auto, 2-wheeler, loan against property and you name it, your merchant loan as the case may be. We have a lot of analysis about a customer. And we have enabled our frontline staff with tools, thanks to analytics powered by AI and AML where we will know the propensity of a product that a customer is likely to take. And we also now have the ability to have the right narrative to even go behind this particular script. Now when you have that kind of a tool enabled in front of you. These are all youngsters, the age of 23 to 30 at the front end. They have a lot of confidence in engaging with the customer. If someone comes in and says that I need a car or I need a home loan or a personal loan, the confidence with which he or she talks is immense. There is -- they would like to talk about something, which they can -- suppose he has been searching for an auto loan on the web and we get to know that. The confidence that a 20 and 30-year-old has in front to talk to customers saying that, sir, I believe you are searching for a car, we have an approved loan -- a pre-approved sanction of a car loan for about INR 20 lakhs, INR 30 lakhs as the case may be. Look at the confidence that the youngster will have. And you can get -- take it in 10 seconds. We have, as one would see in the presentations in the future, you can see from the website, we have a huge amount of preapproved offers for all our manufactured products, and that is visible to the front end. When it came to a home loan, unfortunately, because it's a different organization all together, we don't have that visibility. The frontline people don't have visibility. The customer walks in. He applies for home loan, we just scan it and send it to HDFC Limited. In fact, average turnaround time is about 8 to 10 days. In fact, when we would -- we just returned from Himachal Pradesh and Uttarakhand, and I was very surprised in some of the locations, it was even 15 days. And there was a request whether you can cut it down to 6 to 7 days. So this is ground reality. And when you have an average turnaround time of 8 to 10 days, or even 15 days, in this day and age and era, people are not going to really wait for this long unless and until they love your brand so much. That explains why 5% our customers took home loans from outside. That is reality. And they have their own compulsions. There's no -- there's no fault of anybody out there. Because -- and I'll explain to you and when you ask question as to why is it that we did not resolve this, because ultimately, when you look at we have 6,300 plus branches. There's just about -- they had only 600 branches. So obviously, the distance between the two is only limited. And when you have such [ waste ] in distribution from HDFC Limited, therefore, the turnaround time will be longer. And they had their compulsion as to why they did not expand their distribution, and we'll talk about it. So this is ground reality in the sense that, the macro is screaming that housing sector is going to be powering India's GDP over the next 5, 7 years. You had one of the best products, which is HDFC home loan. We have not harnessed our customer base. We have not harnessed our channels, our distribution strength. So this is something was quite counterintuitive for us. So we said that look, and I remember this, the words that he used is, we are going to be missing out as an opportunity, and that is what he presented to all of us way back in May 2021. There were 2 things. #1, we go back to HDFC Limited, and then probably ask as to how we can repair this or we have to think of something else. Now the other aspect was, can we merge. This is -- I remember the last time we did this exercise was in 2014, and we have the model, and it did not make economic sense at that point in time. And I'll explain that to you as well. So he used the same model from May of 2021 and probably worked on it along with his team. And sometime around October, he came back to me to say that look, contrary to your expectation that you were not too sure whether it will work, but it seems to be ticking all the right boxes. So I was a bit surprised, we were all a bit surprised, saying that how is that possible? Obviously, a lot of things have changed from 2014. And what were they? In 2014, the balance sheet of HDFC Limited was about INR 300,000 crores, out of which INR 2.25 lakh crores was retail and the INR 70,000 crores to INR 75,000 crores was non-retail. We had -- so on the INR 300,000 crores balance sheet, the regulatory threshold for SLR and CRR was about 26%, 27%, 26% probably. So you take, say, approximately 30% on INR 3 lakhs crores. So somewhere between INR 80,000 crores to INR 90,000 crores was the requirement of SLR and CRR. Now what is the way? We had to raise incremental funds and then put it in GSX for about INR 80,000 crores to INR 90,000 crores. At that point in time, the bank's capability or capacity was about INR 60,000 crores to INR 70,000 crores of liabilities in a year. Just imagine to do another INR 80,000 crores to INR 90,000 crores of taking liabilities and putting them down in government securities. This is a tall order. Also, the priority sector requirements, INR 3 lakh crores adjusted for whatever, 40% was the requirement. You had a lot of exemptions. And net of that, again, it came to about INR 80,000 crores to INR 90,000 crores. Another INR 80,000 crores to INR 90,000 crores to raise deposits and put it either in PSL assets or in Rural Infrastructure Development Bonds. So combined basis, the requirement was INR 80,000 crores plus INR 80,000 crores, so about roughly INR 160,000 crores of liabilities that we had to raise and put it into either government securities or in private sector assets. This is a tall order for an engine, which is doing INR 60,000 crores to INR 70,000 crores of liabilities. I think, respectfully, both in leadership teams, I think, said, it is not making sense, so let us shelve it till it makes economic sense, till the regulations change. So we moved on. A lot of you kept on asking and I think we sort of did explain this 8 years ago. Come now in the last 8 years, a lot of things have changed. The regulatory threshold itself has come down from 26% to 22%. Two is, large NBFCs, thanks to the ILFS issues, the Dewan Housing issues, I think the regulator rightfully put in the liquidity coverage requirements on large NBFCs. 8 years ago, HDFC Limited had INR 4,000 crores of government securities. Now they had INR 40,000 crores to INR 50,000 crores of government securities. Right from October 2017, the bank, ourselves, have been maintaining excess SLR beyond our requirements. That is something that we have consistently been doing this. So when you really look at the requirement today, they have a INR 5 lakh crores balance sheet or INR 4 lakh crores liability. When you look at the requirement of SLR and CRR less of all the exemptions that they can, it's roughly about INR 70-odd thousand crores. So today, it is in excess to -- with it. There's an excess with us. We believe that at no point in time what we want to -- do we need to raise incremental liabilities to be put in government securities, because we have excess of [indiscernible]. So this is the one part of it, which is very clear. Then came -- comes priority sector. When you look at the priority sector requirement, that has not changed. That's still about 40% of the total balance sheet, which is roughly around INR 150,000, INR 160,000 crores. So yes, here it is. It's INR 125,000 crores. Now there have been a lot of innovations in the recent -- in the last 8 years. One of the best innovations that one could think of is the priority sector lending certificate, where people with excesses sell their priority sector for a fee. And it's a screen-based trading and people with shortfall buy it for a cost. So at least now you don't have the kind of drag to raise incremental liabilities further to put it in priority sector, at least 50% of that, because the market is about INR 6 lakh crores, and it's growing at 10% to 15%. So at least 50% of what we are likely to need will be out of the priority sector certificate. The balance 50%, which is about INR 80,000 crore or INR 90,000 crores, which is our share, is something that we have 33 months from today, 18 months for the approval is the approximate time and then another 13 months from the date of the effective date of approval. So we have enough time to sort of generate liabilities in any form and then put it either in priority sector assets or even in Rural Infrastructure Development Bonds. So when you look at the entire -- the -- what is required now from a regulatory perspective, is much, much, much smaller than what we felt 8 years ago. The last and the most important thing is on the purchase consideration itself. HDFC Limited 8 years ago used to be priced 6x book. Their share price was about 1.3x out of HDFC bank. Today, it is about 0.8x that of HDFC Bank. So the purchase consideration has come off significantly. They are about 3.5x, very similar to that of HDFC Bank. So what happened was -- what happens is when you take the $40 billion as a net capital into -- net assets into your balance sheet on a merger, there will be a day zero dip in return on capital or return on equity, but you have within -- because the purchase consideration is much lesser now, the ROEs within the 4 to 5 years' time, comes back to your premerger ROEs. And that is what we realize that the normal growth rate that we're talking about. The Return On Assets is one of the few housing finance companies, which had a return on asset of 2-plus percentage. So from an ROA perspective, it is not dilutive at all. From an EPS and a book value share, because there's going to be a calculation of the 21% that he's holding in us, which is now inhibited with a holding hold for discount, it will suddenly be accretive from an earnings per share and book value per share. So you see all these metrics and you see -- so what are we trying to see is the macro, which is screaming that this is going to be a sector you cannot miss. You have to be there. It's a great opportunity overlaying on otherwise whatever we have been doing for 27 years. Two, the micro -- all the micro indicators suggest that the task of raising liabilities is to that extent, much lesser. The financial parameters are positive. So why don't we then start and talk to them. So this is some time in October or November of 2021. We made the first pitch. So contrary to belief. We batted on the front foot. Normally, for 25 years, we were always on the back foot to say that, hey, we are not too keen or whether we're not too sure about it. But this time around, we went on the front foot saying that we want this merger. So this was some time in October. We came back after mulling it over by about February end or so. And I think we said that look, I think if you are keen, let's execute it as quickly as possible. And that's how in March and April, I think we really concluded of a lot of these things. So here is our side of the story, where we believe that it's a scale opportunity for us. Here is the one in a lifetime opportunity for the organization to double every 5 years. That's the kind of an opportunity we're looking out for overlaying on all the underlying. So if the organization had a visibility of 20, 30 years of runway, I think you will be surprised that we will have a runway of 50 to 100 years. So this is going to be a durable organization. Look at the benefits that are going to accrue for this. #1, a home loan is a very emotional and sticky product. Anyone who is wanting a home loan for self consumption is going to ensure that they would not like to default. That's the mindset. So he or she is likely to maintain better balances to ensure that when the EMI is coming, it is not bounced. And you look at the track record, the 2% of the home loans, which were sold in HDFC Home Loan, the 2% of the 70 million base, which was sold HDFC home loan had balances, which is about 5 to 7x a normal average balances. That's the kind of liability potential that is there when you cross-sell a home loan. The second one, for every home loan, every home loan, people would want new furnitures, new kitchenettes, new consumer durables. We are the largest consumer durable bank outside of Bajaj Finance. And here is an opportunity for us to bundle this product along with every home loan that we sell. So look at the bundling opportunity that will emanate out of this particular -- 1 particular product. The third one, for 27 years, I think the bank, its credit architecture has excelled in its unsecured lending. When you look at whether it's corporate, whether it is SME, whether it is retail, we have one of the best well-executed unsecured portfolios ever, even including globally as well. Our proportion is 35% of our total advances is unsecured. Now whether it is the leadership team out here, whether it is Board, whether it is the regulator, all of us will have a little bit of a jitter when it comes to is it -- it's a bit high risk and it is large. So whilst we are very comfortable all this while, but there will be always this inhibition in our minds. But just imagine how this would change the game when you have this proportion. It will come down to 20%, 25%. And that is the kind of runway that we have. We will have even in unsecured. Because it's our marquee product. We have done it so well. Look at the opportunity that it will have, multiple opportunities when you sell a home loan. A, growth, b, liability franchise, cross-sellings opportunity, and a further runway for our unsecured products as well. So when you started to think through, I think here is an opportunity. And I normally don't sort of provide any guidance. But today, on the effective date, we will be $6 billion to $7 billion of profits that get accrued on an annual basis. In 5 years' time, you look at the math, you work out in terms of the reasonable growth of between 18% and 22%, anywhere between that. You will come to $14 billion to $15 billion of profits. That's the kind of scale we're talking about. There's going to be a scale opportunity. So I think let me pause out here. This is our rationale on this. I think the bank has adequate enough avenues, growth is not going to be -- is not going to be an issue at all. It's going to be pouring out of 8 years. I think the only limiting factor is going to be liabilities. And I will explain to you the strategy as to what we're trying to do on the liabilities part. But as of now, let me pause out here and take any questions.

[indiscernible] that was very interesting, thanks. Sir, my first question is on the...

Mic, can you have a mic, please?

So you said that the bank will double balance sheet every 5 years, which would be on a merged basis as well, right? And of course, you will explain on the liability front, but growing so fast on a merged balance sheet, will you be able garner so much liabilities?

Yes, good question. So as you can see in that particular chart out here. It's not new for us. Time and again, right from 2010, all of you have been -- even when we did the Centurion merger, all of you have been asking whether we will be in a position to grow. When you look at the -- our track record over the last -- whether it was between 2012 and '17, or 2017 to '22, we have grown more than 2.4x, 2.4x, which means that we'll probably double in less than 5 years, okay? So size is not a matter at all for us. It's not, because we have the runway. Let's face it. We are just 11.5% of the total banking system. Even after merger, we will be about 15% of the system. It's not about the size. It's about, a, do you have the distribution? We have the distribution. B, we have multiple channels. We have an alternate banking channel, which is going to be covering the various other aspects of it. It's going to be a kind of an octopus kind of approach, hub and spoke, which will ensure that wherever the branches are not there, you will have the business correspondents and the business facilitators trying to get it. We have -- the other aspect of it is the capital. We have enough capital now. We have capital enough for growth. We don't need capital all the way until 2030, probably. All our franchises, all our franchises, whether it's corporate, whether it is SME, whether it is retail, all of them are firing on all fronts. Our asset quality, our book, is extremely good. But you're right, oen of the most important aspects or the levers for growth is liabilities. What are we trying to do? We are going to be virtually creating something very teutonic and that is we're going to be adding about 1,500 to 2,000 branches a year for the next 3 years. It's going to a tall order, but we will -- virtually going to be doubling our distribution from now to then. It's important. Here is an opportunity and why not. And when you really look at it, the branch is an extremely important fulcrum for garnering deposits. When you look at the vintage of our branches -- of our 6,300 branches and when you see the 0 to 5 -- vintages, which are 0 to 5, 5 to 10, 10 to 15, and greater than 15. If branches in the 0 to 5 are generating X amount of liabilities, in a 5 to 10, it will be 3x, greater than 10, it will be 10x, and greater than 15%, it will be probably 25x, and that is what it shows up here. So we have a fair amount of vintage, which is less than 5 years. 60% of our branches are in less than 10 years. So look at as it migrates to the higher vintage, look at the kind of potential that's going to be there in terms of deposit mobilization. So one of the most important aspect of that is that we will be trying to ensure that we add more and more distribution points and you will fundamentally have another question, and I'm trying to preempt that. That in this age of digital era, is it appropriate to add branches. Frankly, India's demography is different than anyone else, anywhere else. We are -- today, the average distance of a branch is about 6 to 7 kilometers even within our own. And all of us in this room, we all agree that we don't travel 5 to 7 kilometers to go to a branch. It's quite a tall order. We want the concentration to come down. So the -- you have enough room to expand. In fact, there is a huge amount of liability pod available in the semi-urban and rural. We have reorganized our branch banking recently to tap into that to have a separate vision on the rural, semi-urban, because ultimately, if you look at the credit deposit ratio, it is 30% there, which means that there's a huge amount of liability pod. We didn't want to confuse with the overall branch banking, we wanted to have a separate vision, and that is the reason why we're going to be focusing on liabilities through this new carving out of the organization within branch banking. The second aspect of it, apart from expanding our distribution, we are going to be -- even when you look at the 70 million customers base, our penetration levels on time deposits is very limited. It's just about 14-odd percent. You may wonder to why is it that we have not done it. So when you look at our track record all these years. We have had enough funding just to take care of our growth. You take in FY '21. We grew incrementally INR 100,000-plus crore of assets. We had INR 100,000 crores plus of granular liabilities during that period. In FY '22, we grew INR 200,000 crores of assets and we had INR 200,000 crores of granular liabilities. So the bank and the engine and the machinery has the ability to raise liabilities to the extent that it requires. No problems. Now, I know this is important. This is something very important from a leadership perspective. This is one of the things that we discuss very intensely within our own asset and liability committee meetings. So you would be surprised that we will be pushing up this liability engine now. We will try and demonstrate it, may not be now, but maybe in the coming quarters, you will start to -- already start to see the liabilities growing faster than the assets. And that is a kind of objective, which is on us. When you have growth staring at us, when we have growth opportunities pouring out of years, we will do whatever that is required. We are after all an execution engine. We have done that admirably over the last 27 years. And I don't see any reason why we will not be able to raise incremental liabilities to fund this kind of a growth.

So does it automatically mean that in a tight interest rate environment, you would see HDFC Bank taking the lead in hiking ceiling rate?

No, no, no. No, no, no. #1, we have never sort of been a run outlier on rates. I think we have managed this by being on par with some of the larger banks, and we will continue to do so. It is not about raising the extra rate to get that deposit. That's not -- we're not going to do that. We can't afford to do that as well. And let me explain that later. The reality is that our sales process at the front end has not been used to asking for liabilities, asking for time deposits. So it's a ask. It's going to be part of the scorecard, hopefully. And the moment you have leadership team driving -- each of the leadership teams, whether it's the branch, whether it's on the virtual relationship management programs, whether it's on the alternate channels, whether it's the MSME businesses doing a self-funding, whether it's corporate side now raising liabilities to fund their assets. We -- the moment it becomes a part of our focus, a key objective, willy-nilly, 9 out of 10 times, we have always met it. So this is going to be a challenge. This is going to be our execution responsibility on part of the leadership team, and that is what we're going to be doing that. So we are not going to be changing rates. We are not going to be spoiling rates. We're going to be just using the same rate structure that is there in the market. Sure, it will go up. But so will the yield. So we will be focusing on just ensuring that our sales process ensures that we start to ask and have the penetration move from a 14% to a larger number. Mind you, look at the kind of scale that will happen. A 1 percentage swing from a 14% to 15% will generate $5 billion to $6 billion of additional liabilities. That's the kind of swing we are talking about. So when you start to go down to the -- at the grassroot level, when you start to have people with the kind of a metric to say that, look, you need to have a target from 14% to 16% to 18% to 20% as the case maybe over the next 3 years, frankly, it's no sweat. And we are very confident that we'll be able to absorb the growth.

And you wouldn't have any CASA ratio in mind, right? I mean it will be an outcome.

See, I mean, if your CASA ratio, let me -- if you look at our long-term average for all these years, our CASA ratio has been in the range of 40% to 41%. In the recent past, we have been about 45%,47%. It's an aberration. It's an outlier. Why? Whilst the CASA has grown about 24%, 25%, your time deposits have grown only 7%. But why? Because we did not need it. We were comfortable with the kind of growth to absorb the kind of growth. So therefore, you had an unusually high CASA ratio. But in reality, when you go down to the -- to a long-term average, it's about 40%, 41%. So pushing term liabilities granular time, we are not talking about $1 million kind of -- we are wanting INR 0.5 lakhs, INR 10 lakhs, INR 15 lakhs, INR 20 lakhs deposits. These are granular deposits, which are not rate sensitive. So even if it comes down to a 40%, 41%, it will still be well within. And you may say that it will sort of increase your cost of funds. Look at HDFC Limited has a, I think, about 580 basis points cost of funds. We have about 360-odd basis points -- 360 basis points, 3.6% cost of funds. There is a 220 basis point cost differential that to accrue to us over a period of time as and when the liabilities mature. I think -- yes, there it is, it's 220 basis points. So even if I were to shave off some, what people have to understand is the 2-plus percentage ROA will be a 3-plus percentage ROE. I'm okay, even if you shave off 120 basis points, but look at the opportunity here. It is scale, and it's going to be positive, ROE accretive. So that's the kind of differential we would be talking about, it's going to be a win-win for us. So we are not too overly concerned if we are pushing term liabilities to sort of get up the liabilities going forward.

Thank you for the waterfall on priority sector, which I think that's the conclusion. I just have one last question. How would you measure customer service? And...

It is an important one. I mean, I think -- let me sort of -- one of the priorities of the organization. As I said, we are an organization, which is an execution engine. I think growth is not an issue at all. When you start to meet our leadership team today. You'll be amazed the kind of -- all of them would be sort of demonstrating, and I have no visibility of that. But each one of them, you will be surprised with the kind of potential and the runway that they're going to be laying out in front of you. I think it's a lot of energy and the leadership energies travels all the way, 4 levels below, and that is something it's kind of -- it's an amazing engine, which we've all inherited, having kudos to the founding team of 27 years, who've really built this. Of course with Mr. [ Puri ] at the helm to create this kind of an institution engine. Having said that, one of the 4 or 5 priorities that we have is on culture. I'm not -- when I go down and it's a reality that I can keep going down. A lot of these people also go down. I don't need to teach them strategy at all. They'll teach it too. The youngsters will teach it too, what's required for growth. They're amazing people, a lot of energy out there. But what we are focusing on is culture, the employee culture. I have 141,000 people. There is 127,000 people, who are the RME. So effectively, 13,000 to 14,000 people at the supervisory architecture right from us going down to probably the branch manager, et cetera. The other is supervisors. One of the things that we're asking them is on employee culture. That is you create a kind of an environment where you hand hold people at the ground level. You don't sort of use toxic language. You don't use -- you're not firing and hiring people just because he or she has not met performance. It is going to be a tough month. It's going to be -- it will take a lot of time, but that is the kind of culture we are now trying to nurture all along where people are saying, if there is a problem hand hold them, sit with them. It's proven that if a supervisor sits with the youngster for 2 full working days and demonstrates how to do his or her job, it's a sea change for that individual for his entire life. It has happened to me. It has happened to me as a junior way back. And I believe that all of us have a responsibility. If we become successful that we need to have a similar kind of a thought process to our juniors. Nurture, care, hand hold and that's is the team that we're working on. We're not there, but we will be relentless at that. So giving respect to the individuals is extremely important. When I say individuals means the army of the youngsters. Why? When you give respect, you'll get respect twice over. And this is just for us and to the consumers, for the customers. And that is the second aspect, which we are driving this relentlessly. We are not perfect. We are not there at all as yet. We still have complaints that are coming to me, coming to all of us. When you see the annual report surely this time around, I'm sure the complaints have come down by 20%, 30%. It is not something that we are still happy with. We want to be go down to a level where we can say that, hey, we are rid of that particular kind of where we need to. So what are we trying to do? Here, what does the customer wants? The customer wants respect. And what does respect translate to? In terms of speed of the reaction. So whether it's a query, whether it's an instruction, whether it is a financial need, whether it's a complaint, how diligent and how speedily do we go back to the customer. This is all we want to measure. As I said, we are putting our best foot forward on this across all. I think as when we -- and we have a lot of metrics. We have a Net Promoter Score, which I'm sure we will be publishing in our annual report this time around, I hope. Otherwise, it will be on the website for sure or maybe during the course presentation today when you're dealing with our marketing team and our branch banking team, I think that will come up and that -- the leadership team out there does it very passionately, and this is something that we back to the detractors. Every customer, who's not happy, there is now almost 99% turnaround in terms of going and -- the seniors going and talking to these detractors. The say, sir, what have we done wrong. And it's really nearly always something that we have moved up. So we have a lot to do. We have a lot to do in terms of profit changes. We have a lot of things that we're doing in terms of how to make instruction, self-service. A lot of things are there when you start to talk to the technology teams and digital teams, and the branch teams, and a lot of other teams. Every aspect of it, we are trying to see how we can minimize touch, minimize the paper, we're running with a team called Zero Touch Zero paper. And you'll be amazed to know the person driving that will be the head of operations out here. When you hear his presentation and when you -- I'm sure you'll be amazed how can -- where we are trying to move people to the front end, have lesser people at the back end. And this is a theme that we're talking about. A, it will have a huge impact on customer service. But it's something that's a journey we have commenced. We are relentless about it. It's all about culture. It's all about focus. I think I'm very hopeful that over the next 3 years, we should see a dramatic change in the way, consumer perceives us as a bank. I know there's a perception that we are more sales focused, sales oriented, but we are not trying to strike that off. We want to be service first culture organization, and that is what we are aiming to us over the next 10 years.

A few questions. First, you mentioned that your market share in deposits going up from 14% to 15%, it's not a big deal. But when you look at from...

Not a market share, that's the penetration.

But in respect of the market share, when you look at the total liabilities -- of the incremental liabilities in the system, you would require almost 20% to 25% of the incremental liabilities, when you do the merge numbers, right? And it's a big task for a franchise like us. So how -- and from a management bandwidth perspective, obviously, that would be for a few products that may lose from a -- maybe from a focus perspective, right? Considering the liability will be the key focus area from the management perspective. So how do you look at this entire situation playing out? That's the first part. Second part is, overall where you are likely to grow branches? It will have some impact on your cost-to-income ratio, and by when do you see those ratios stabilizing? And the third one is the net-worth. After the merger, your net worth within a year's time, will be bigger than the largest bank in the country largely, right? And it puts a lot of pressure on you to -- indirectly a kind of pressure on you to do participate more on the corporate lending business. So how do see the mix shaping up from the next 4 to 5 years' perspective?

Sure. When you look at in terms of market share gain, I think you are seeing this in front of you, whether you take a 1-year horizon, whether you take a 2-year horizon, whether you take a 3-year horizon, whether you take a 5-year horizon. I think silently, we have demonstrated that the gains that we have had over these various time zones has been much more than the cumulative of all your 3 top peers put together. I think that tells us that when you need to, when there is an opportunity out there, when you're trying to put your machinery in place to garner that, gaining market share faster than anyone else is not an issue thus far. And this sort of demonstrates that we have executed. And obviously, beyond that, all I can tell you is that after all, we are an execution engine, and we will continue to sort of drive this, because it is going to meet our objectives. The second question, sorry. Cost to income, prior to COVID, we were around the 38%, 39% cost to earnings. During COVID, we pulled back retail which is a large cost center. So it went down to 36%, 37%. We are now coming out of COVID. You will start to see it where retail is now starting to increase its disbursals, so all the associated costs, whether it is on the acquisition side, whether it's on the risk side, whether it's on the credit side, all of them will start to fire. So you will start to go back to normalized levels of 38%, 39%, even without any further investment. I -- we are very clear that our investments in technology, our investments in distribution, our investments in people, is going to be continuing over a period of time. Even if it were to shave off a little bit of our profitability in the near term, so be it. We're okay. But you'll be surprised that the operating leverage will continue -- is kicking in -- will continue to kick in. So all things remaining same, you will start to see over the next 3 to 5 years, the cost to earnings coming back ex mortgages. I'm not even talking about mortgages. It will come down to the mid-level -- mid-30s. You know that HDFC Limited has run its shops so beautifully. It has probably globally one of the best cost of operations, less than 10%. So when you do a pure math, our cost to earnings will be somewhere around the 32%. And when the operating leverage starts to kick in, it will go to less than 30%. So despite increase in investments, in distribution, in technology and people, you will start to see the cost of earnings going down. Because the jaws are going open, we are -- as I said, when I'm trying to say that this is going to be a scale game, your revenues are going to be virtually public. Your cost is not going to go to that extent. So you will see the jaws opening and you will start to see these the so-called cost of earnings coming down dramatically to less than 30%.

The net worth, considering you will be on -- you will be the leader. I know it's...

Yes. I mean, he will be the most happiest. He is singing away. Kaizad normally does not sing, but he'll be the most happiest, because he has now as it is out of limits and that's a positive. And I'm sorry I missed that particular opportunity, the opportunity. I want to address this once for all. People -- the corporate business is as profitable as the SME business or the retail business. It's a 2-plus percentage ROA with a 18% to 20% ROE. Otherwise, they don't do this business. The only difference is, in a corporate business, the spreads are small. The cost is also small. The credit cost is also small. So you will have a 2-plus percentage ROA. In a retail business or an SME business, the spreads are larger, the cost is larger, the credit cost is larger through the life cycle. So it's a 2-plus percentage. When you do the DuPont analysis, it's a 2-plus percentage ROA. So we don't run businesses, which are less than a 2-plus percentage or which does not give the 18% to 20% ROE in its full capacity. So I want to get that right. So if for whatever reason, in the last 2 years, when we have expanded our wholesale or the corporate book to 56%, where it used to be always about 40%, yes, look at this. You always had the corporate around the 45%, 46%. And we had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to be the preferred banker on the corporate side, which Kaizad and team will sort of talk about, it's in their presentations. We grabbed it with both our hands. Why should we -- just because in the NII, the net interest margin, the weighted average will go down vis-a-vis previous year, so it sort of slows down the NII growth on this. It's just optics. It's a timing difference. But ultimately, it's a 2-plus percentage ROA, which is there. I mean -- or that's what it matters. So we're not apologetic at all about the proportion of corporate [ ROA ]. But having said that, at some point in time, I know retail will start to kick in and more the sort of mix changes, you will start to get the -- all these things. But you're right, with that kind of a network, the ability for the corporate franchise to even spearhead growth and be well positioned, especially when the government capital expenditure is unveiled, say, 8 to 9 months, 8 to 10 months, hopefully, and you probably will hear from Kaizad and Rakesh when they start to talk about what are the plans that the government has, you'll be amazed. We will have a wonderful runway on that aspect.

And just 2 last questions. One is on this affordable -- your priority sector, which you plan to grow organically of around INR 80,000 crores to INR 90,000 crores. By the time the first PSLC post-merger will kick in for you. What would be the strategy to garner that, which all products would you be focusing on?

See, one of the things that it's a focus area, obviously, today, what are we trying to do? We have our -- if you look at the total priority sector, none of the institutions have actually defaulted on overall priority sector. We have managed it. Out of the 40%, I think we are now in the early 30s in terms of our core private sector origination. And the very fact that when you look at the CRB presentations, you'll be surprised to say that the kind of granular focus they're going to be having. They're going to be having in terms of going to each and every village, each and every district. That is where priority sector is going to be. So we're going to have a separate focus on that. What people -- and when you hear the retail part of it and the branch banking part of it, you will also be surprised that by end of this month, all of our branches will be able to sell gold loans. So this is another avenue of growth and other avenue of priority sector as well. Because see ultimately, when you are trying to look at cut marginal customers where our credit architecture is not so comfortable. I know our Chief Credit Officer has been trying to text me to say that we have not sort of picked it up. But it's just a matter of time, you will start to see that. We are not talking about anything overnight. But over the next 3 years, we are putting all levers to ensure that whether it is in the form of smaller marginal farmer, agri, whether it is the creditor is not comfortable, then give a gold loan where user's agriculture. So this is going to be another big lever for us. And last but not least, the home loan itself. When you sell a home loan in a Palanpur or a Joginder Nagar or Haldwani, where the ticket size is less than INR 25 lakhs to INR 35 lakhs is the case. I mean all that classifies and qualifies the priority sector. So our objective over the next 3 years is whilst growth, you will see a lot of growth coming in from outside of metropolitan locations, which will qualify us priority sector even for home loans. So we will have enough to sell. It's not that we will be entirely self-sufficient. We will have to sort of buy PSL, but the cost which we are now estimating about 1% to 1.5% of our total priority sector requirements may come down because we will be selling those access PSL as well. So we're not too -- see, we have done it. This is embedded in the business model even today. Today also, I'm -- we are not sufficient completely. So there is a kind of a cost that is already embedded in the part of the business model. So going forward also, I mean, whilst we are putting in all levers to try and see how we can do core priority sector, but it's something that we will manage. And we'll -- we are anticipating in our growth, when I said that we're going to be doubling in about 5 years' time, the cost of priority sector, we have factored that in as well.

And the last question is by how soon do you expect that the HDFC team will be able to do the home loan business from all our branches? Currently, obviously, there is an overlap of maybe around 2,000 branches, if I'm not wrong. So for 6,500 branches for them to do the business [indiscernible] interest of [indiscernible] branches.

We had to respect the regulatory approvals. The first set of approvals should come in by September October. Around -- the Competition Commission of India is extremely important. We will do that. But when you start to hear our head of retail assets, we are in conversation with HDFC Limited to slowly start to -- the ideologies to converge, the policies to converge. It's not so great. I mean, for example, today, they may have -- they may not provide or they may not take collateral outside of municipality limits. But look, here, we run a loan against property across all our branches, and we have that kind of expertise. We are not asking to go down the risk ladder at all. All we -- now thanks Digital India today -- and I sort of thought in front of it in a VC, in a place called [indiscernible] about 40 kilometers or 50 kilometers outside of Palanpur and you go to that VC point and you are surprised to see that when you try and see this is a land, is it vacant or [indiscernible], you will be -- you can get that this is [indiscernible] to PNB. This is a kind of ability that India has -- we have all our land records, which is more or less digitized. Even if it's not digitized, it's a registered mortgage in the tehsildar's records. So the -- in the last couple of trips that I've gone along with HDFC Limited, they are reasonably sanguine that these are all doable. They would like to now go back to the drawing board to think and change. So the objective is once we get our -- the fundamental approvals in place, especially the Competition Commission, you will start to see opening up of our distribution more and more. Now it's about 2,000 branches we are selling. We will start to ensure that we have more and more branches. And hopefully, by the time the merger gets consummated, I think we will start to have all our branches firing with all the policies converged, et cetera.

Yes. So the first question actually is on the slide, which was -- which had preapproved loans. So there was a number, which was INR 32 trillion. So that is -- sorry, is that industry size or...

It's the potential. See, this is the internal customer base of preapproved offers where it gets refreshed by our credit and credit analytics team. You can get to know more about it when you have your session with Jimmy Tata and company. But these are offers to our existing customers. So effectively, if Vishal is one of the esteemed customers who was a part of that, he will get a loan in 10 seconds flat. That's the opportunity. So it's all about how we marry this particular offers with our sales process. I know there's -- as we start to improve upon our analytics, the fact that we try and zero in on when there is a need of a product, when we are able to identify the moment of truth, I think you will start to see a lot of unleashing. But that's an opportunity for the frontline people to be able to sell, whether it's a branch, whether it's the virtual relationship management team, whether it's the -- a lot of other frontline team who can sort of harness this data in front of their CRM systems.

In fact, going forward, that's opportunity where you have, going forward, that you have also the mortgage product added in the SFP approved. For example, Vishal should be having a preapproved mortgage offer.

This include that? But this is based on income? Because this is like 2x of current industry size of these core products.

Yes, [ Vishal ] it's a lot of attractive opportunity that is there. It's a massive opportunity. Just the moment you start to marry that with need-based selling or when there is a need for the customer, just imagine the power. That's the potential which is there.

Great. Great. That's great. And the other question is on the tech and digital channels. So while clearly, the focus would be on physical expansion, I'm sure I think you also -- we have discussed this in the past also that how digital offering has now become a me-too offering. And almost all banks have caught up, right? So now for example, to keep gaining market share, especially from the metro and urban areas, you will still need a top-notch digital offering. There was a delay or lag in the upgrade. Now when do we start seeing like GST bank being once again #1 on digital channels?

Thank you for that. Yes. Number one is, let me just correct this impression that there's nothing wrong with our technology. I think we -- over 27 years, we had -- we've always done a lot of global first. And the events that caused us to have a different impression on you all is not necessarily technology. You can, but we probably sort of humbly accept whatever was the verdict given, and we have put in a -- we've used that opportunity to reimagine our technology rails, number one. Number 2 is, I think when we -- in 2015, when we launched the Digital 1.0, I think the kind of product that we have launched is unparalleled even today. Today, like the 10-second personal loans or the 10-second auto loans or the 10-second 2-wheeler loans or do your own loan against securities or your instant merchant loans or loan against property as well, a lot of other things. And today, when you look at the cost to earnings at that point in time, we were about 49%. So today, when you look at the kind of digital disbursals that have come in through these kind of prequalified, preapproved loans, it's one of the reasons why that has brought down the cost to earnings from 49% to 39% until March of 2020. So we have been ahead of curve on that one. Yes, the kind of incidents that have happened in November 2018, a day in December 2019, the data center issue in November 2020, obviously, has had an impact from a reputation perspective. We have used that opportunity to lay the rails differently now. We are moving -- you can have -- the Head of Technology sort waxed eloquent on that, but in a very simple layman terms, we have been using -- we created 2 factories. One is the enterprise factory whose main job is to try and have the applications move out of -- create micro services out of the monolithic architecture, put them in containers and then put them on cloud so that the scalability and resiliency of the architecture is now going to be not an issue going forward. We will never have issues on scale. We will never have issues on a certain aspect of the application coming down because you will have redundancies, and you will have failover mechanisms on an active/active base. It's an important one. It's not visible to you all, but that's a rail that we had to put in place, which is a strategy that we said that we will start off from the [ court here ]. We have now digital factories, which is now going to be coming out with products on the engagement layer. But in July and September, you will get the actual dates from our team. You will be surprised by the kind of products that we will be launching, unleashing. Even now as late as last week or 2 weeks ago, we launched something called the Express Loans, which is there -- which is a global first. I mean you go to -- walk into a dealer and you get a 30 -- an auto loan new-to-bank customer, not just existing, whilst we have 10-second loans, but even non-preapproved customer getting a loan in 30 minutes at a lead dealership has created a flutter in this industry because it's a global first. And it's not easy, but you had to do a lot of engineering of the background to be able to offer that. You will now start to see right from July to September, where it is launches, whether it is the fact that we have partnered Adobe on all our journeys, about 30-odd journeys. That's what I believe, but I'm sure when you have the further presentations down, they'll tell you what are the kind of journeys, which will be game changing, whether it's on the liability side, whether it's from the asset side, whether it's on the investment side, hopefully. You will start -- we have launched, people don't know about it. We have launched something -- an application, which is a smart hub application for the merchants. It's called the Vyapar First probably. I think that's a name that is given out there. We've already done about -- how many million?

1 million...

Parag will probably sort of mention that. But silently, we have done about 300,000 odd, if my memory serves right, to 350,000 merchants. What does it do? This is equal to an Alipay, an online/offline mode. Wherein here, you are at the center of the application, you're the payment facilitator, you are -- the form factors are agnostic, whether it's a card, whether it's an UPI, whether it's a QR code, whether it's stipend pay, you are there. You can allow customers to do any forms of payment. You have an application provider who sort of provides value-added services like accounting services for the merchant, which is also extremely important now in this age in terms of providing for GST accounting, et cetera. And then look at it, the merchant has a lot of catchments. You go to a small town, you have a main street, you have a loyal about 5,000 to 10,000 customers who are always coming to that center street in that particular small time for the weekly purchases. Now you can now use this particular application to be able to engage with these customers and households through various form factors, including a WhatsApp and do our -- they can order, they can deliver and they can make the payments there and so on. So -- and they can market their products. So that's the kind of application, which is gaining ground. We -- as I said, this is one -- we are now 3 million customers -- merchants. We will be 20 million merchants in about 3 years' time. Even if Parag does not have this vision, now he has the vision now, I have to do that. But a lot of launches that will happen. The most important is going to be our payment hub. It's going to be, I believe, something that we'll be all proud of. It will be better than a Google Pay and a phone pay. It will be self-fulfilling. It will be ensuring that we will be able to expose all our banking APIs on that. So it will be also payment app with the ability to do mobile banking. So it's a failover from -- even if the mobile is down, mobile app is down, you can continue to use that. This is going to be a game changer. I don't want to talk too much about it. I will let the technology and digital teams talk about this. But when it gets launched, but in July and September, I think we will get back our mojo, as you are saying.

Yes. So 2, 3 questions on PSL. So firstly, the PSLC purchase that we have done on the net basis till FY '21, the number has increased to around INR 82,000 crores, and it has one of the highest numbers as a percentage to ANBC as like in the peer group. So that is one that how it is going to pan out when we have a merger with HDFC Limited? And where would it help whether it could help in a small marginal farmer section or maybe some other section. So that is one. Second, if you look at RIDF bond that we have, that has also kind of around INR 9,000 crore number. And total cost on P&L is close to 100 bps of PPOP. So how things are going to pan out post merger?

See, that's one of the key areas of focus for us, okay? Now as I mentioned in the previous conversation out here, it is a cost that we will have to factor it in. If we are not able to meet our own organic priority sector. Now we are putting in all our levers to ensure that we are trying to see how to meet our priority sector on our own, but there will be -- it's -- I mean, let's be realistic about it. Sometimes the small and marginal farmer or the weaker section will take some time because there is a lot of risk involved in doing that. But if you start to bundle this with the gold loans part of it may be to some extent it will elevate, and we will have to see this slowly grow back. So in our business model, as it is today, there is a certain cost, which is embedded in our profitability. The amount, unfortunately is smaller because what happens is when you do an organic priority sector, the ROAs are even as high as 3%. So a 3% ROA on a priority sector, core priority sector, offset by a certain amount of cost, which is ranging between 1% to 2% of the total requirements, I think it's something that we'll have to embed this, and we'll have to keep on minimizing that going forward. It is -- now no bank in this country other than small rural bank -- regional rural banks, which has a small balance sheet have been able to achieve the sub limits of a smaller margin pharma or weaker section. But I think we believe that as we start to use our distribution for gold loans, ensure that the end users agriculture, we can start to minimize this gap going forward. We'll have excesses in the general priority sector because our home loans, especially in semi-urban and rural will all qualify for priority sector. That's something that you need to factor in. Yes, why don't you say?

No. So I think whilst we've talked about -- am I audible?

Yes.

So I think once we've talked about the fact that there is PSLC. PSLC is one of the various avenues available. We have chartered out quite a few more. It's going to be a matter of execution, but are there opportunities? Most certainly. Let me give you 1 or 2 out of the bag. So if you look at what is available in co-lending, so given our tie-ups, with a vast segment of NBFCs the whole co-lending model based on our credit standards helps me access the small and marginal and micro institutions where I need to fill that up as well as on the ag side. So the co-lending is one model. The second model that we have, again out over there is because of the higher net worth that we would have. We would be able -- and the higher priority sector, we would be able to meet that by doing -- lending for NBFCs who are allowed to further lend on the agri side. So that again helps us meet the PSL part of it. Then there is what we do, PTCs, and there is also securitization. So there is a host of avenues that we have chopped out. Yes, PSLC is the single largest, no walking away from that, and therefore, we present that. But there are other avenues which we will work on. And which we've already worked upon, and we have to get scale at that, which will help meet the core PSO requirements. So it's just not one. There is a bouquet available.

Just one related question. Like key providers of PSLC right now in the system is [ RRB1 ], PSU Bank in some of the segments. And then we have the [ SABs ]. And other banks having a market share close to 90% or more. And if the 90% of the system starts growing faster then 10% of the system cannot provide that kind of PSLC required. And RIDF, like -- by all the financial issuance or whatever issuance they do and the allocation based on that, we will still have some deficit there. So again, on the larger scale, like on the larger picture, larger canvas, it is not just about HDFC Bank, ike there would be a good amount of deficit that system will still have. So that is a larger...

No, you're right. You're right. I'm not sort of disputing that when the economy opens when -- because a lot of the banks' balance sheets have cleaned up, they would now like to grow, that's reality. But I guess, when you look at the overall, we'll be the largest provider of PSLCs in the market because we will be having -- the growth that we're talking about over the next 5 years is going to come in even from our priority sector as well. Our home loans in semi-urban and rural will all qualify for that. So I have again mentioned this, I may fall short on the small and marginal farmer and weaker section. We -- which is where if you don't meet, you will have to put it in our idea. So we have factored that at a cost in our projections, which is something that is already embedded even today. So the overall requirement will be minimized because we will have so much of other PSL to sell, whether it's micro enterprises, whether it is on home loans, affordable home loans, will all sort of give you a positive fee, which will reduce the operating costs that we're talking about. But having said that, this is a challenge, but this is our execution capability. I mean now -- with like liabilities, this is another focus area for us to see how we minimize the reliance on outside of the core acquisition of priority sector. We'll have to see this, but I will not give you a false picture to say that we will be completely self-sufficient. We will have a gap. It is already baked in today. It will be baked in even tomorrow. When I say that we are going to be a scale bank, when I talked about a number where we're going to be doubling in 5 years, it is factoring this kind of an operating cost.

The other thing is, at times, sometimes you generate in a particular category, excess general PSL. We also are providers of selling that, that helps reduce my cost and then buying those specific subcategories.

Slightly bigger picture question in terms of the merger itself again. Typically, when organizations such as yours, so huge, when we get into a merger scenario, the typical reaction is to slow down, take a pause, understand what are the challenges and ensure you get out of this more stronger than you enter. I'm keen to understand your thought process as to why you decided to accelerate and chose to continue on the same growth momentum?

So you are saying -- just repeat the last one, that why -- whether our bandwidth will be impacted because of this merger?

The choice was to either take a pause, understand all the risks associated with the merger and then get out of the merger 2, 3 years down the line with a much stronger balance sheet and instead you've chosen to continue the growth momentum at this moment.

Okay. So a couple of things. Number one, I explained to you that here is a macro opportunity, which is staring in front of you, which can power not only the economy, but even from a durability of growth. So when you look at the growth thus far of the bank over 27 years, we have been on the shorter duration of the curve. Our average duration of our assets and liabilities has been about 1.2, 1.3 years. With home loans -- so you're catching your tail every 18 months to grow at about 18% to 22% year-on-year on year. Not that it's not possible, but it's a kind of a -- just imagine the moment you extend your duration, it sort of brings you a fair amount of ease. You are able to breathe, you'll be able to grow, so number one. So here, if that's going to be powering India's economy over the next 5, 7 years, it will be stupid for us to miss this opportunity because as I explained to you, there was an inhibition in the [indiscernible] arrangement. You were -- there was a limitation on HDFC Limited to expand its duration. And let me explain to you on their behalf. Housing or home loans is an oligopoly market with an intense competition. So you had a very thin spread on home loans, which all of you know. When you have this kind of a dynamic, you need to ensure that the 2 other legs of the stool had to be absolutely efficient. I think given -- you have to give credit to HDFC Limited for running one of the best operations. You have the lowest cost of operations, nowhere, no financial company, no housing finance company globally runs this kind of cost of operations at less than 10%. You look at the asset quality he runs. I'm talking about pure mortgages, okay? You have one of the best asset quality ever that anyone has. I know a lot of you probably may have had this question that is this a 2-plus percentage ROA? You'd be surprised. He's one of the few housing finance companies to run this. I may be wrong. Maybe there are some, but he has executed extremely well. Now why? Why has he executed? So look at it. So he had to maintain the tools -- the 2 legs of the stool very tight. One was the cost of operations. Therefore, he limited himself to 35 hubs and 600-odd branches, which is necessary for him to maintain the low cost of operations. He had to ensure that he chooses the collateral in terms of at least the top 100 towns, it could be Delhi, Mumbai, Jaipur, Chandigarh, et cetera. He never sort of opened up beyond [indiscernible]. So there was a reason. There was a finite capacity on a large NBFC in terms of funding. There is a compulsion on profitability, where he maintain tighter cost of operations. That is what he had, et cetera. Now here is an opportunity, which is staring in front of us wherein now when you open it up, this explains as to why only 1/3 of our branches were selling home loans. Where the branch -- our branch distribution is already sunk. So the marginal cost that will happen only because of home loans is going to be much lesser. As I said, with 220 basis points of cost differential -- cost of fund differential, even if I were to increase the distribution costs, the credit cost or the sales cost to the pre-credit verification cost, as you call it, we are all right because we still have a massive amount of differential that will accrue for this. Now why would anyone, any organization, missed out those opportunity? Mind you, you will -- let me preempt one of the questions. You may say that why is it that you did not do it on your own? Why couldn't you build your own home loan book? See mind you, if we did not merge, if since economic said that it's better to merge, if we did not do it, a large NBFC such HDFC would have had to integrate with someone else with another bank, which means that we would have lost the brand. And the brand of HDFC Bank is extremely important for us. So it is no point just trying to say, thank you and start your own. We could have done that. but it was not making sense. Here is a company which has excelled in 42 years, which is something -- a product which is well reputed. We just want to lift and shift here and then distribute it. That is the objective. Here is a once in a lifetime opportunity for the organization to scale it with all the metrics remaining intact, as I had just mentioned.

[ Shashin ] over here. 2 questions. One, basically, that HDFC Bank and HDFC Limited, both have been on the road to meet investors, shareholders as such. Any descent that you saw from the investor?

No.

If yes, how do you plan to address?

So yes, we started off very late. We -- as you know, the announcement was 4th of April. We had a shut period until 17. It's only after that, that we started to meet investors. We preferred to do one-on-one. We've covered about out of the 10 geographies, 2 geographies. Thus far, I think when you explain the rationale, our story about the merger, I think it's been positive thus far.

Second question is about the regulator. So what basically could be the plan B if basically the regulator doesn't allow you to increase the stake in insurance to 50%? Similarly for HDB Financial Services, I think you have its permission to keep it as a separate subsidiary.

So a couple of things. One of the -- see the merger of this case, obviously, before we announced, had the blessing of the regulator, the Ministry of Finance and the -- in principle. I mean it's not that they're going to give you in writing. They're saying, yes, and even the Prime Minister's office. So that's number one. Number 2 is the that we have asked the regulators that we want a simple A+B merger, where HDFC Bank will be the holding company. Two is one of the ask is that like you have in a lot of other banks, a large PSU banks and 2 other private sector banks where they have allowed subs to be the subsidiaries of these banks, we have said that allow similar kind of a structure even for below the bank. When you talk about specific, when it comes to the investment in HDFC Life and HDFC ERGO, our preference and our ask is that, can you allow us to go to that extra 50, the 2.5% in HDFC Life.

2.2%?

And 0.2% in HDFC ERGO so that we cross the 50 plus. You will wonder why. I think whether you like it or not, one of the biggest beneficiaries of this particular merger are going to be the subsidiaries as well, whether it's HDFC AMC, whether it HDFC Life, whether it is HDFC ERGO. Now I'm still saying we will patronize open architecture. But having said that, hitherto, we were just a distributor. Now we will be a parent-child relationship. So there will be a little bit of a stock corner for these child entities. So the opportunity that these entities will have and harnessing our distribution heft, our customer heft is going to be unimaginable. So our preference would be that. But in the worst-case scenario, the cabin pressure were to say that no, you're to drop it to 30%. We are all right. We still will -- would want to juice out even at 30%, the subsidiaries opportunity in this kind of a new entity. Last is on HDB Finance and HDB Credit Card. Obviously, we await direction from the regulator. We are open. It's a financial investment for both. And if there is a need for us to have a glide part downwards, we are going to happily do that. If at all, we are directed to do it, we wouldn't set it up in our own state. So we are not overly concerned. I think we'll monetize that and sort of reuse it for reinvestments, which is a huge amount of opportunity that is there now that we are a large holding company. We'll have a lot of opportunities to invest in technology companies below. So we're quite excited about any possibilities we arise out of that.

Sure. Sir, just extending on that question, what would be the plan if RBI doesn't accept the way the structure has been in the current form?

No. See the structure that we have applied for is a simple A+B structure, which is the structure of president asked by the regulator to apply. So I know where you are coming in from. You are talking about whether it will become a nonholding -- what is it called NOFHC, nonoperating holding company structure.

Nonoperating...

Nonoperating holding company structure.

No, that is not. It is -- whilst it may have find its literature in the discussion paper of interworking group. As of now, since the tax neutrality is not resolved, the regulator is very clear. Keep it simple. Keep just A+B with HDFC Bank becoming the holdco. That is it. We are going to be an operating company as well, and there's no confusion about it. And that is how we have applied because that's how we've been asked to apply.

Okay. But in case it is allowed like they say that okay only HDFC's -- mortgage business can be done with HDFC Bank and others have to be a separate entity.

No. That is not -- as I said, again, I'm trying to reiterate that. That is not the structure that we applied. That is the structure that we've been asked. The way we have applied is the way these regulators asked us to do it. So there is no ambiguity on that at all. If at all, the tax neutrality status changes, then obviously it will not just for HDFC Bank, it will be for the banking system as such, all the other entities. When that happens, we will think about structure. I mean, which is -- which makes economic sense.

Sure. And the other question is with respect to the group entities. What are the synergies that you would see? You said -- you definitely said that the relationship would change now. But in terms of the fee income, distribution and all what is the kind of uptick, which we can see from there besides the [Technical Difficulty]?

See -- look, like any parent-child relationship, you will have a soft corner. You will provide access, not that -- you're not going to provide access to others. But obviously, the power of the combined entity is now -- is something that it's important for us to harness. Because ultimately, their value goes up and comes in the value in the sum of parts. So we have a direct bearing on that at this juncture. Until now, we were just a mere distributor. So in the last couple of trips that I've had, I've carried the AMCs, Life, the Ergo and the HDFC Limited and the opportunity is eye popping. In terms of our own distribution, whether it's this distribution, whether it's the alternate banking channel distribution, whether it's the engagement, virtual relationship management platform that we're talking about, the fact that now we had not thought about it, but then even I'm sure this is -- I do not know if that our technology and digital teams will be thinking, but now it's something that they can have -- consume the APIs of all the group entities and the power of that combined entity can be unleashed even in our digital platforms. So the opportunities are galore. Obviously, the bonus of all this merger is the fact that you will start to -- we, as an entity, will continue to get fee income, probably higher fee income. And they will also have an underlying -- run a larger and stronger run on their underlying sales, which should sort of lead to higher value, which will sort of be uploaded through these sum of parts to us.

Yes. So my question is on the wholesale side, this side. So the last couple of years, you've seen strong growth on that front, probably also on the commercial banking side. Where would you be in terms of the wallet share of some of your top customers? And how much more you think to go in terms of opportunity?

Kaizad?

Okay. So I think the presentation that comes up soon after this will give you more insight. So I won't take away the thunder of Nirav's when he presents. But I think we do map the wallet share, the growth in the wallet share. And we do believe that we are in most of our relationships amongst the top 2 banks. It's not only a question of the funding that we provide. It's also the entire gamut and bouquet of services, including your entire trade and transaction banking and treasury products. With the higher net worth that we would have, it would give us an opportunity in certain groups to increase and step up our engagement. And that would also bring in a much more diversity of our offerings within the group. So on the wholesale side, I think this provides us with tremendous growth part. And that is something that we've already kind of mapped. And as the merger comes through, we will be able to quickly grab those opportunities, which today are there, but we are limited because of certain limits or restrictions that we have to work with. So we are waiting keenly to see how that unfolds.

But I mean, some of the growth that we have seen in last, say, 24 to 36 months would also be a function of the fact that competition probably was not growing, and you were -- you had a classic funding advantage as well. So you could cherrypick at your risk. Is there a cap that would come at some point in time?

No. So if I got your question right, how do we deal with competition? I think if you go back and see 27 years of HDFC Bank, the first 5 was only wholesale bank. We didn't have a retail bank until '99, 2000. And thereafter, I think we've dealt with competition, whether it has been the aggression of a few PSU banks. So sometimes, other private sector banks I think we've learned to deal with competition, and that really is not something that alters our journey. This is something that is inbuilt into the journeys that we've had. So we don't see that as a challenge. But yes, we have to respond to that. We have to align to that, which we continuously do as we go to achieve. And as the slide out over there showed -- if Srini, we could go to the slide of market share, I think that numbers itself reflect what we have done over the last 1, 3 and 5 years. So if you see HDFC Bank's market share on the advances, as against top 3 peers combined, I think that data speaks for itself in terms of competition and the opportunity that is there. And we feel confident that we should be able to continue that journey.

Yes. And just finally, on the fees bit. The wholesale fees probably has reduced to single digits of the total pie. While we say that entire wholesale growth is not just balance sheet-driven, how does one kind of explain this dichotomy?

No. So it's not -- so if you see, as Sashi was explaining earlier, in wholesale whereas you will have a lower NII compared to retail the cost of wholesale as well as the credit costs and add to that what wholesale brings, and you'll see it in the next presentation, the complete transaction banking income, the complete cash management income, the complete cross-sell on salaries and the complete FX income that brings with the corporate lending is a fairly good piece of the overall and therefore, leading to a better ROA. So that is very much there. And I think we had a slide, which showed out over there that in the 2 years when we slowed down retail, we were able to step up wholesale. And whilst we did that, your ROA has yet continued to be at a bank-wide level at 2%. So it's not just pure lending. That's not been our philosophy. We don't go and lend to any customer and say, okay, that's how we will grow the asset book because, let's say, at times, I have the benefit of more competitively priced liability. That's never been our model. Our model is how do we ensure that we have the complete banking products and solutions to the corporate which very simplistically means I will not only be a provider of funds, but I will be a provider of the entire banking services, which includes your complete trade, nonfund, FX, cash dividend, tax, salaries, and I can bore you with the list. But that is what we do, and that's how we manage life cycle of each and every customer, on the wholesale side, whether he's an SME, whether he's an emerging corporate or he's a corporate banking customer. And that's been our entire model. And that's what keeps the engagement going. That's what gives you to improve when someone else asks the share of wallet, that's what helps you get in more products to your existing corporates. And let's understand the quality of the corporates that we deal with, they themselves grow every year between 15% to 20%. So apart from that, you have the other opportunities, which we will cover later on. So we do see fees, commission, FX as important components of the wholesale banking ladder.

One thing I want to add for you is that when you mentioned about the fees being composition is in single digits. You're not including the FX because we report FX outside of fees, which is a significant component in wholesale. So that's something that you want to take into account. And the other aspect that Kaizad alluded to is the benefits that come on various other activities, they're all in the interest income itself, right? Every other activity provides earnings on the interest in the form of a float or in the form of balances that are there or any other manner that's coming in to this slide.

And the corporate business is a feeder to the retail business because as you mentioned, we are the largest salary banker. And then when you look at the advantages of the salary business, whether a large part of the preapproved offers will all be the salaried business, et cetera. So it's a huge feeder to that business, and so it sort of feeds on itself.

One thing that -- we don't have it here today. At some point in time, we will start talking the self-funding in the wholesale corporate bank. That self-funding is quite high, 70% to 80%. That is the balances that come from those organizations plus the retail customer providing the liability balances to the bank. So you have to look at it holistically. That relationship brings what sort of liabilities for the bank in total.

All right, ladies and gentlemen, this one will be the last final question.

Yes. I think Mahesh...

Sashi, just 2 questions. One, at a time when we see the concept of manufacturing versus distribution, how important is the investments that you think you would have in your subsidiaries once this merger is completed? Or let me phrase it another way. How important is it for you to own these subsidiaries?

See, frankly, if you ask me on this one, you look at the existing extant structure. The extant structure was a nice holdco for the subsidiaries. But it was not able to provide that opening for them to really just to sort of have a larger distribution. They have to rely on an associated company called HDFC Bank. But the moment it now comes in, the fact -- the reality is that HDFC Life is listed, HDFC AMC is listed. And I know that the similar kind of holdco discounts will sort of flow through in value. But all things remaining the same, the fact that now, as I mentioned earlier on, we will be exposing the subsidiaries to a larger distribution half, larger customer access with, of course, within the 4 corners of data security and data privacy norms I think is a massive opportunity, which we have not even tapped thus far. So as I -- again, to the cost of repetition, I would love to have it anything beyond 50% because then we can juice out the sum of parts slightly higher. But even if we were to say that go down to 30%, so be it, but still the 30% of the value that we will now bring to the subsidiary companies is going to be much larger than what it is today. So therefore, I'm not going to probably push ourselves to increase any further investment other than the small one, just to tip over to the 50% mark. But if for whatever reason, the regulator says that no, the law of the land says that you're going to get a payer down to 30%, so be it. We're okay.

Perfect. My second question is in the past HDFC has kind of liked to work an ecosystem of its own. You've seen your PayZapp, your SmartBuy and so on and so forth. In an era where we have these open ecosystems kind of building, how comfortable are you today to explore that part of it as compared to what you have done in the past?

So just give me an example?

The PayZapp and your SmartBuy essentially are ecosystems where you want the customer to come to your place to work whereas we have seen in the market at least customers referring to kind of open up with the bank on the website of the merchant. So we've seen in the past that you've always enjoyed having the control on the customer.

See, there are 2 parts to it. Number one is Banking as a Service where we expose our APIs on platforms where there's a large number of footfalls is something that we would like to harness. It's going to be a new channel. It's something that we have started out with some of the tech companies like PayTM. We're doing a lot of experiments there. So why not. What is it? You're just having an access, they're all distributors, you're having a larger access of customers and it's another channel. So why not have that access. So that's part 1. Part 2 is the kind of technology that now we are going to be building on. It's going to be a completely new stack and the tech and digital team will sort of talk about it on what we are now trying to create on the PayZapp or whatever is the name that they'll come out with is akin to where like a Disney. I mean, I'm sure -- I mean this is something that I sort of resonated beautifully. Earlier on, Netflix was a distributor. He used to distribute Disney products. But now Disney later on, I believe, realized that, hey, we are the content provider. We should also be in the distribution. We are probably in that kind of space today. We have the content. We have all the necessary products to be exposed to our customers. We manufacture all of them out here. So we are saying that why should I have to rely on a third party for content, we have the content, we will distribute it. So this is another separate ecosystem that we are creating. So this is going to be a very important aspect of this. This is going to be the differentiator vis-a-vis what a Google Pay or a PhonePe is going to do because we're going to be manufacturing. They're going to be partnering with third-party financiers whereas we are going to have our own products manufactured too, which is what akin to a Disney -- what Disney is doing now. So this is the thought process. But having said that, as I mentioned, we have a separate strategy on Banking as a Service where we will be exposing a lot of our APIs, trying to see whether we can have the incremental advantage by the so-called riding on the, I think, the [indiscernible] rails, hopefully, by then, which will sort of give us the -- some additional information about the customer from that ticker platform. So we're going to have this as 2 separate strategies. We are okay to have the PayZapp as an independent ecosystem, exactly what I talked about from a Disney kind of example. And we will have the banking and the service as a new channel, which we will sort of test it out with a lot of our partnerships. And as we see the distribution increases, why not.

I guess that was the last...

So just to summarize, I mean, thank you so much for coming over here. I think here, HDFC Bank, which has executed so well over 27 years, is now at an inflection point where scale is not -- it's going to be a scale game. Growth is not an opportunity. It's going to be pouring out of the years. The only limiting factor is liabilities and we have an execution strategy to ensure that our liabilities are enough to cover the kind of growth that's going to come in. We are virtually -- we are now, as I said, even ex mortgages, all our segments, whether it's the corporate, whether it's the SME segment, whether it's [Technical Difficulty] has started fire. Surely, some of the products, you will see a bit of a lag basis because of the fact that, a, like the auto and vehicle loans, there's a semiconductor issue. So the underlying sales are down. So you will see that a little bit tepid. But even otherwise, from a year-on-year perspective, since the duration are short as we start to increase our disbursals which will be higher than the repayments, then you will start to see the book growth. The mix will change into the normalized levels that we have seen in the past. It will take some time. But we are not apologetic to have a higher corporate mix as well. As I said, it's a high ROA and a high ROE product, so why should I be so worried about it to talk. The priority for us is to ensure that we have a wholesome growth over the next several years. We will be expanding our distribution. You will see a lot of things that are happening, whether it is in the brand channel itself in terms of expanding our distribution, the fact that you have an alternative banking channel, which you will start to talk about it in terms of see them, in terms of how we're going to be covering different parts of the country through the hub-and-spoke model or whether it's the engagement layer, that is the virtual relationship management, between the branch relationship management program, between the private banking, between the virtual relationship management program, you will see the differential that. People keep talking about fintech, it's a cold channel. The fintechs are cold. We are going to be human. We're going to have a lot of engagement. We're going to be giving respect to the customers. Ultimately, that's called a differentiating factor out here. Our -- the growth engines, the SME business, there's a huge amount of opportunity. But of course, we will do it with -- only if it makes economic sense, we will not go down the risk ladder. We're not going to go down the pricing ladder at both the corporate and SME as well. So the opportunity to grow is huge. The housing, the home loan, merger announcement as and when it gets consummated, is going to just overlay the growth duration. We had a run rate of 20, 30 years now. I think we will have a runway of 50, 100 years. The durability or the quality of growth is going to be very good because your durations are going to be extended. As the cost of operations is going to be lower, the cost of credit is going to be. Lower, the scale at which we're going to be growing because just imagine, when one of the slides have said that 2%. Today, it's an emotional product, going from a 2% to a 7% virtually doubles the bank, 7% to 12% and further, so the opportunity doubles an emotional product, a sticky product and a product that is so easy to sell at the front end, which is multiple such avenues, whether it is live franchise, whether it's the cross-bundling of consumer durable loans, whether it is the fact that your runway for unsecured loan just increases is going to be a heavy factor. So we are extremely excited about the future. Yes, as always, the only risk that we run is an execution risk. That is our responsibility, and that is something that we have demonstrated for 27 years. We believe we can do it over the next many years. The institution is absolutely here. It is exciting in terms of what the scale it provides. So thank you very much for this conversation with you all.

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the end of first session. Now we will have a short break of 15 minutes. Thank you so much. [Break]

Ladies and gentlemen, we are starting with our next session. So for that, I would like to request Mr. Nirav Shah, Group Head, Corporate Banking and PSU; Mr. Jimmy Tata, Chief Credit Officer, to present the corporate cluster.

Okay. Good morning, everyone. So what I'm going to cover very quickly for you all is the corporate landscape. What was HDFC Bank Corporate Bank doing during this particular time. In terms of the corporate ecosystem and what more to expect out of the corporate bank as we move into the future years. So first thing is -- and let me start from the basic. What was happening in corporate India? One, as all of you all know, a lot of balance sheets got deleveraged. So as we came out of the first wave of COVID, we saw EBITDA margins moving up. So while values were going up, the capacity utilizations are coming down, there was ample liquidity in the system, interest rates were low and corporates decided to deleverage their balance sheet. And there were certain sectors and companies across sectors where we witnessed deleverage of balance sheet. During this particular period, we saw unprecedented levels of foreclosure. And while there were deleveraging on one site, there were a set of corporates who believed that they should shore up liquidity. And some of them ended up taking or drawing on their working capital lines just to keep liquidity. What did this -- what were the opportunities for us? On one side, when we saw interest rates coming down, we realized that there is a great opportunity for us to refinance some of the existing debt sitting across corporate balance sheets. So that was one avenue [ focus ]. Second was there were set of companies who wanted to draw working capital lines and keep themselves liquid. Nobody knew what is going to happen through the pandemic. So we participated on the working capital side. Third thing that we did was in terms of ensuring that we increase our disbursement run rate. So between working capital utilization, refinance and participating in CapEx, which was limited to a few sectors, we ensured that between maturities, between foreclosures but our disbursement cap space and we offered a balance sheet growth. The other factor that happened was in terms of the digital adoption, we realized companies started working from home and pandemic acted like a catalyst. At this particular point in time, and we would cover corporate volumes, 94% of transactions were processed untouched by human hands. On this transaction, making collections and payments, we saw adoption of our trade on net platform. And 87% of transactions on international trade were again processed through a stage 2 processing mode. And through this digital adoption, we saw an increased traction in our customer engagement on transaction banking. Over the last few months, there have been 2 things. One is the government expenditure. So that part of the GDP has picked up. There has been monetization of certain assets. We have seen early draws on the PLI scheme. We are seeing, in terms of certain green shoots, in terms of CapEx across some of the other sectors. We have seen monetization and InvIT structures coming in, where the credit risk on project side is out. There are stable cash flows and better net equity mix for the bank to participate. So we saw some CapEx coming back through all these things. The last thing is post the tension between Ukraine and Russia. We saw disruptions on the supply chain side. And this is something that corporate India is worried at this particular point in time. They wanted to switch up the supply chain better. And in Q3 of FY '22, we launched our new supply chain platform. This has helped us to actually provide assistance to the entire supply chain of our clients. So whatever we did, what did it translate into? So if you look at credit growth, large corporate credit growth, March '22 year-on-year was 0.9%. And HDFC Bank ended up having a credit growth of 15.7%. So we were 16, 17x we grew faster than the market. If we look at it over the last 2 years of pandemic, we have had a CAGR of 22%. The good part about our credit book at this particular point time, it is very well diversified across tenors. We are also very well represented through various industries. Plus, we have a large part of loan book, which is linked to a benchmark, and it is floating rates. So in terms of our ability to pass on wage hike is that much superior. The growth in the book was both in the public sector space as well as on the private large corporates. Today, 62% of the book is large domestic companies, 38% is public sector. If we look at it in terms of growth, public sector last year grew 13%. Private sector grew 17%. In terms of the quality of the book, continues to remain pristine. Our weighted average internal rating for the PSU book is 2.84, which means when I translate it into an external rating, all of you all would be able to relate, it would be a AAA portfolio. Our internal rating on large Indian companies is 3.83, which means it's a rating that would be somewhere between a AA to AA+ is the effective rating of our book. In fact, when we look at it in terms of our portfolio, today, 93.5% of our book is rated A, AA and AAA. If I was to just look at AAs and AAAs, it would be somewhere around 87%. And actually, 49% of the book today is rated AAA. In terms of we have spread across industries. If we look at it in terms of where did the growth come from, some of the industries which witnessed credit growth came from agri, food, beverages. In terms of infrastructure spend, in terms of telecom and services, some of the sectors where the deleverage story was more pronounced was in metals, mining, minerals, chemicals, fertilizers, pharma. But our portfolio is spread well across industries. So in terms of what is it that Corporate Bank does, we're today present across the entire corporate ecosystem, and we touch various parts of our corporate. So whether it is -- we're a financial supermarket. Whether it is in terms of servicing the corporate needs when it comes to funding, both through working capital and term in terms of the cross-border transactions and facilitating through both imports and exports, in terms of managing the domestic supply chain, whether it is in terms of funding of vendors or customers, or whether it is in terms of handling of transaction volumes, both collections and payments. In terms of how do we leverage our relationship with the customer and add value to corporate employees in terms of salary engagements, in terms of how do we participate and aid government with tax collection through all kinds statutory dues that we collect, and effectively, at the end of it, how do we distribute the earned profits by way of dividends to the shareholders. So we are present across entire product suite when it comes to corporate plans. So just to touch upon a few aspects, and there were a few questions in terms of the corporate bank profit margins, in terms of the NIM. So we actually represent and bring together one HDFC bank to the client. If we look at it we have salary engagement on the corporate side with more than 2,000 companies. There are 44 lakh employees in these 2,000-plus companies who maintain their salary accounts with HDFC Bank. There has been a growth of 14% in the number of salary accounts. These 44 lakh employees, today, as of March, had 54,100 crores of savings account balance sitting here. Now this is what means a preferred bank to a corporate and leveraging. And then on these set of accounts, there would be cross-sell on the retail asset side that gets built in. I spoke in terms of the trade offering. If you look at it, we are present across both domestic and international trade finance, whether it is through our supply chain financing program, whether it is preshipment, postshipment credit, whether it is buyers credit. And the good part is that we work very closely with our treasury, and there would be opportunities and advisory that goes out to clients in terms of what is the best way to structure your borrowing. So if you look at it, U.S. interest rates started going up faster. Indian rates were still lower. There was -- the forward rates were very high, and there were clients who actually decided to move their borrowing from foreign currency to rupees. And given the way we work closely with Treasury, there were opportunities and solutions that we could offer to our corporate plans. If we look at in terms of letters of credit, today, a large part of our letter of credit assistance to clients goes towards cross-border trade, 82%. What it offers us is ability to then finance those transactions, plus cross-sell FX and help customers hedge their exposures. If we look at bank guarantees, the story is the other way around. Over 93% of guarantees are issued for domestic purposes. And this is where we believe the risk of guarantee transactions is lower. Now if I look at in terms of the entire gamut of trade, whether it is import, whether export, whether funded or sent on collection, we have seen a huge 48% jump in terms of the trade transactions we handle. Now does this happen through magic? No. There have been products, there have been solutions that we have offered to our corporate plans. If we look at in terms of the IDPMS and the EDPMS reconciliation that we provide, we pick up from the GRP side in terms of, say, a physical import that has taken place. We populate it on our trade on net website and the customer links this payment to an actual import. There is a reconciliation and the reporting that goes out. Now these are the kind of value-added services which gets extended to our clients, and that is where we see an increase in our trade engagement and improvement in wallet share. In fact, a lot of our transactions today are processed untouched by human hands. There is no need for a customer to send a physical paper when it comes to international trade to our trade desk. So what did it translate into? So when I compare volumes for FY '21 with FY '22, we have seen that there has been a total increase of 16% in the total transactions. And when we look at it, how many of these transactions were processed digitally, there was a 26% increase. So while we saw total transactions going up from 1 lakh and 41,000 to 1 lakh and 54,000, if we look at it, out of 1 lakh and 64,000 transactions, 1 lakh and 42,000 transactions, 87% of these transactions are digital. And this is what is creating stickiness, this is what is providing solutions, and this is something that is going to create a scalable model for us on the trade side. This is an area which is out of focus for us. If we look at it over the last 6 months, and I mentioned that we raised our -- we came up with our new platform in Q3 of FY '22, and we have already seen substantial engagement and increase in our volumes. Now whether it is in terms of factoring both purchase and sales side, whether it is bill discounting, whether it is invoice discounting, whether it is supply of finance, you look at it, there is the model provides us ability to do a lot of things digitally, including credit underwriting, including documentation, including booking of transactions. There is a lot that would be very different. This allows us, and there is a slide later in the presentation wherein we'll cover the corporate supply chain landscape. And it also offers us the ability to do even leap year financing. So there is a lot can be done on this particular platform. This is the beginning. This is a platform where I can improve my yields without taking any incremental credit risk or measured credit risk. And it is something that the corporates may be cash rich. But this particular product is going to find benefit to all. The next thing, and this is where we have always been market leaders. We are today one of the largest movers of cash in the country. Over the last 1 year, we saw a 24% increase in our volumes on cash management side for corporate bank clients. We saw a 35% increase in value. And both volume and value comes across several sectors. Historically, over the last 5 years, we've seen that as you keep increasing your cash management collections and payment volumes, it translates into float. For a corporate, you would typically not leave idle current account balances. Your float is nothing but the time difference between your collections and payments. The more you handle transactions, both in volume and value, is where you are going to see incremental float. Second is it also helps us in managing our portfolio a lot better. We get deep insight into what is happening across various sectors, what is happening in a particular company. So whether it is right from a check bounce rate to an average value of a transaction, it helps us a lot of things about corporate that you otherwise would miss out. We have also, over the last 1.5 years, increased our traction through digital integration through APIs, and 558 digital and API integrations done. If we look at it in terms of the total collection space on the corporate bank side, 92% of collections today are completely digital, untouched by human hands, 97% of payments are digital. And if we look at it, overall, 94% of transactions, what I had mentioned earlier, are processed, untouched by human hand. And given everything is digitized, our cost of running these kind of transactions runs into low single digits. So what do we do? I mentioned in terms of tax, and this is just the beginning, and we do believe there will be substantial growth in volumes here as well, from March '22, we ended up handling 2 lakh 25,800 crores of taxes. And I was just doing a little Google search and I was told that the total direct and indirect taxes, including corporate and individuals in the country last year was 27 lakh crores. Now this is just the corporate bank customers contributing in terms of tax collections. Now with the e-freight coming in, customs duty coming in, more customers coming in, we do believe that the scope for further growth in our wallet share on this particular product exists. Now all of this, what we said, what does it translate into? Now why are we handling these kind of volumes? If you look at it vis-a-vis '21 versus '22, my CASA issue in wholesale book has come up to 50%. If I look at it in terms of contribution of income, you look at in terms of fee commission, FX, cross-sell, if you look at it, the contribution from some of these products have substantially gone up. So which means that the quality of the liability book has improved with the transaction banking that we handle. And we are able to leverage our asset volumes well for cross-sell. Coming through in terms of -- if you look at it, we track our portfolio in terms of how well are we leveraging capital. So at this particular point in time, you would look at it that there is only 8% of the total portfolio, which is high capital consuming at this particular point in time. Out of this, there is 1% where capital consumption is high, but return is high, there is 7% where the return is lower for the capital that we consume. There are strategies around each of these plants, whether it is in terms of reducing the capital usage or increasing the cross-sell so that each exposure starts contributing substantially to the revenue and shareholder wealth. Coming to in terms of what is our future thought process. And let me start by covering in terms of the entire digital space. So we've embarked on an architecture redesign, wherein we will move away from the legacy system and move to a cloud-native resilient, agile, scalable API platform. In terms of we are redesigning both the corporate and the RM journeys as we move along. We are trying to leverage on the analytical tools that are available with us in terms of improving our processes as well as our ability to take a larger share wallet. So let me start off with the employee experience. Here, there is a single platform that is provided to a relationship manager that would cover end-to-end workflow. We'll be able to connect and collaborate a lot better with various other divisions of the bank with whom he needs to work -- he or she needs to work. They'll be able to deliver a much better solution to the client. They would be able to use analytics in terms of increasing not only our share of wallet, but identify opportunities for upsell and cross-sell. Now this would also result into bringing in better insight. Say, for example, there is something in terms of the pricing engine that we are looking at, you're -- it's just common sense that there is -- say, there are 2 pharma companies rated similar, 1 in Hyderabad, 1 in Ahmedabad. If the Hyderabad company is borrowing at a particular rate, should the Ahmedabad company be borrowing at a different rate? If in a particular tenor, if there is something that is being done at a particular rating, someone with a lower rating should be getting a premium price over that. So there are a lot of insights that we are able to bring in to price our products sharper in the market. When it comes to customer experience, whether it is in terms of underwriting, whether it is in terms of the self-service mode that we would also, whether it is our e-net platform, whether it is stay on net in terms of how do we add value, how do we integrate with the ERP system of the client and how do we serve customer better. On the transaction banking side, I spoke about the supply chain platform that we have come up with. We have also integrated with TREDs. We would also see a lot more self-service modules coming in to serve corporate customers better. On the ecosystem banking, there will be dynamic discounting, there will be deep tier finance, and deep tier finance is funding even Tier 2. So I would cover it a little later in terms of exploring how the blockchain can be used. I think what is important is whatever we have put out on the digital side, what is it that our customers feel about us? So if you look at some of the testimonials, and I'll just highlight a few points, this technology is flexible, ease of implementation, integration with the ERP system and ability to digitize everything, and these are the things and feedback that comes in from the customer. And it's a continuous process wherein we look at seeing how we can improve ourselves. Coming to the supply chain landscape, what I mentioned about and this is going to be a big area of growth for us. If we look at it, there is a corporate at the center, you have suppliers and then you have supplier to supplier. So you're going into the Tier 1 vendor and the Tier 2 vendor on the other side. On the other side, you have, depending on the business model, you can have the 2P/3P manufacturers. Now post GSP, you are having a lot of warehouses. On the other side, you have the dealer, distributor network, you have retailers. Now whether through the supply chain finance platform or through partnerships with various other verticals within the bank, we do believe that we have solutions to cater to the entire ecosystem. Now there would be primarily banks who are our competitors here, and we are looking at competing better through some of the partnerships, whether it is with fintechs, whether it is with other verticals of the bank. And if you look at it in terms of the risk profile, a lot of it is predicated on the corporate cash flow on the vendor side. It is partially mitigated to long-term contracts. And where you have the customer risk, with the use of technology picking up with the consent, the GSP invoice details, a lot more can be done without running incremental risk. And therefore, the opportunity based on this side is very large. In terms of a vision that we share at this point in time is to become one of the largest and the most preferred bank to multinational companies in India. At this particular point in time, last year, we had 693 clients here. We initiated relationship with 59 more clients through last year. If you this particular space, most MNCs in India have an asset-light model. So your asset opportunity will be limited, but opportunity when it comes to liabilities, in terms of cross-sell, in terms of FX is huge. At this particular point in time, we have an identified list of 2,000 multinational companies that work in India. Now these are divided by country of origin, these are divided by business lines, these are divided by head office geographies. We've started engaging with these set of clients directly through Chamber of Commerce through their consulates. And we do believe the potential of initiating engagement and playing a pivotal role in their businesses in India exists, and this can be a very, very big driver for us. So when we spoke about multinational clients, what about new to bank clients for corporate bank? We just do a simple search and you can -- a lot of this data may not be available through one single public source. But there would be -- in our -- for our database, there are 2,237 companies in India with turnover in excess of 1,000 crores, which is the threshold for corporate bank to deal. Out of this, 1,066-plus companies are currently dealing with us on the asset side. If we look at it and we apply certain filters, we said companies rated with a minimum rating of A- we looked at it in terms of bureau scrubs. They should not be having any SMA reporting. And when we look at this particular addressable base for us, there are still 617 corporates who do not deal with us at this point in time. When I look at what is the total debt across the 617 companies, that is 11 lakh crores of debt, out of which 80% is long term, 20% is short term. Now I may not want to deal with all the 617. All 617 may not deal with us. But this is an opportunity space that exists where we would be able to bring in new to bank clients. And when you look at what is not with you and compare it with the size of your book at this particular point in time, this offers great growth opportunity. In terms of PLI scheme, I'm sure I'm not going to give you a lecture on PLI scheme, I'll limit myself only to cover in terms of the opportunity exists. So there are 14 sectors, 15 teams, a total outlay by the government of 2 lakh 3,000 crores on the PLI side. Out of the 14 sectors, 12 sectors, they have given the approved list of applicants. Across these sectors, there are 600 companies who have already received approval. In terms of the CapEx that these guys have committed is to the tune of 2 lakh 34,000 crores. Now for us, we have, in our segment of 1,000 crores plus, we have identified a set of companies who are participating in PLI. Some of them happen to be our existing clients, some of them are our target relationships. Some of them have crystallized their CapEx plans in terms of the division between debt and equity. Some of them are still working things out. This gives us an opportunity not only to participate on the debt side, but work along with the investment banking team on equity side mandates as well. So this is going to be the other opportunity for us to fuel growth. So in terms of just to summarize, what is it that corporate bank is bringing to the table and where do we see the future coming in. The first thing is in terms of increasing our share of wallet in our existing-to-bank lines. And 2 is in terms of bringing in new products to your existing customer base. So this -- for this particular initiative, we have embarked on a journey which we internally call performance potential. What is this? So if you look at 2 companies in the same industry, where you pick up industry of your choice, automobile. Would the 2 companies in automobile space have a very different business model or similar? If you have a better engagement with one of the automobile companies, means you have understood the pain point of that particular industry, that particular company better. Can you then replicate it? And same is true as you move from one industry to the other. So how are you taking your learnings from a particular company and replicating it to other companies across the country? And we do believe that through this particular initiative, we would be able to substantially increase not only our wallet share, but bring in new products to our existing clients. Second, I covered in terms of the new-to-bank opportunity, so not dwelling further, but that is going to be a growth driver. Third is in terms of participating in opportunities that the economy will provide us, whether it is the production-linked incentives, whether it is going to be the asset monetization plan of the government. As I mentioned, supply chain integration is going to be a big driver. One, it is going to help us create value to bring in higher yields. And three, in terms of companies can become cash-rich, companies can look at alternate avenues, but supply chain is a product that is here to stay. We're looking at serving the customers products. There are quite a few exciting products that we would come up with on the international trade side, which would add value to our customers and help us gain market share on that side. I've already covered in terms of the MNC piece of what is the opportunity size and what kind of contribution in terms of liability FX cross-sells that they can bring in. All of this has been done through digitally integrating better with our clients, and there would be services. So from a regular cash management, can we move into a cash management with level reconciliation for our clients? And that is something that the fintech partnerships will provide. So we do believe that growth in corporate bank opportunities are far too many. It is, in terms of selecting the right set of clients, not moving away from the core principles that we have over the years built corporate bank bond and in terms of improving the quality of earnings through better engagement with the clients. And that is something that we're looking at delivering from the corporate bank. Thank you.

Yes, so if there any questions for Jimmy or...

So we will take only 2 questions. Does anyone have any questions?

Maybe not directly related. But if you can give us the idea what is the outstanding share of infra bonds on our balance sheet right now. And how do you appetite for that particular product in the market?

Numbers, I think please talk to Srini so he can give you all the numbers, but we manage infrastructure in a very different way, right, from maybe the smallest construction equipment up to the largest product. Infra bonds, more of a financing issue. I'd ask you to speak to Srini on that front.

That opportunity that you guys mentioned about INR 11 lakh crores, that 600-plus corporates. So that what would be -- because traditionally stayed away from the long-term financing per se and more towards the working capital loan, if I'm not wrong. So would this large chunk of this would be geared towards the infrastructure kind of a segment considering 80% of the long-term financing into that particular...

Yes, so let me put it this way, at this particular point in time. And if I just to be a little conservative, even if I take 5 years plus as long term, today, 40% of our book is with door-to-door tenor over 5 years. So there would be certain installments that would be paid even on the way. But if I just -- your cutted by door-to-door tenor, it is 40%. Second is there is a lot of strategy that has gone behind. And if I cut this particular data by corporate rating, a large part of my 5-year plus is in companies which are rated very highly. And as you keep moving down the waiting chain, that particular amount just starts becoming smaller and smaller. Third, in terms of infrastructure, there are various ways in which we participate. So there can be a debt finance where the project book is complete. There are infrastructure projects where cash flows are determined. You are not really running the risk. When asset monetization happens, what -- you will see that because of those InvIT structures, there are restrictions in terms the kind of debt that has taken there. There are certain long tenor loans that we would have given, which may not be really project risk, but maybe a balance sheet risk because there are enough and more cash flows to support even if a particular project was not to go through. So we will always remain cautious in terms of what we do. But in this particular country, can you really avoid funding project? Answer is no. But can you do it diligently? Answer is yes, and that is what we will endeavor to do. Jimmy, anything else you want to add?

I can give a minute flavor on -- just to allay I think the share is misplaced. Long term, firstly, does not mean infrastructure, and I think Nirav alluded to that. A large part of our long term is actually out to corporates, manufacturing companies and the government and public sector companies. I think a very, very significant part of our long-term exposure is out in what I call Navratri quality. Remain at all Navratris, but Navratri quality public sector undertakings. So it is safe over there. The mix, and I think as the bank grows, there is a need to participate more and more out of just the niche of working capital and to be across the entire spectrum of lending. More than that, I think the bank also, as it becomes something of considerable size, is to have duration in your book. And if you do it safely and you do it right, and we have to this point, succeeded in doing that quite well, we have managed to create duration in the book, and we have not assumed a higher level of risk. I think the risk, you just heard from Nirav, the PSU and the corporate scores overall, they are very, very low. You heard it being a shade under 4 for the entire book and a shade under 3 for the PSUs. To give you some color, you've got to be a shade under 5 to exhaust AA. So that's the quality of the book, including the long-term exposure that I held at this point.

The last question on the corporate bond market. So over the last 3, 4 years, we have seen India has developed significantly on the corporate bond market, right? And prior to COVID, we were building a lot of capabilities build on this opportunity. So can you just give us some flavor what has happened over the last 3 years wherein our corporate book was growing, how we have capitalized the entire journey of corporate bond markets and how do we see ourselves 5 years down the line?

So let me take it in 2 parts. One is in terms of participating. We work very closely with our treasury and the investment banking team in terms of helping corporates face their debentures. So that's one area where we do a lot of work jointly with IP and treasury. Second is in terms of -- so you saw export in both issues of commercial papers and debentures. But if you see the market over the last 2 months, the issuances have completely dried out. And at this particular point in time -- if for us, it's the customer assets. We would look at our customer asset from the point of view that part of my overall strategy, where does this fit in? Do I really need to participate on the investment side? No, my participation is not very large at this particular point in time. But if there's an opportunity that can be leveraged well, we would look at it. So it's time-to-time, client-to-client, the strategy would vary. But at this particular point in time, even the primary market for issuance has dried up and we are not doing much on the corporate bonds. The interest rates are going up. So it does not even make...

If you look at how the corporate bank behaved throughout the last 3, 4 years, if you look at the TLTRO area, you would have seen us very, very active over there because that was the time companies were shoring up liquidity and raising a lot. Participating in bonds actually brings additional risks. And if you have a good enough business franchise, you -- what does the bond do effectively? It kind of commoditizes the finance, so it brings a very standard, you are not able to really fine-tune what you want. And of course, it brings market risk into the equation. If you're not going to be able to price those risks, then you're probably better off with an advance. So it's something that we look at from a case-to-case opportunistic perspective. We're not really looking to participate in a bond market for the sake of participating. When we find the good transactions, we definitely pick them up and we pick them up with good large appetite. But it's not necessarily a must-have for us that we must have bonds. We don't really have to have bonds. We would like to be a good part of the corporates business, both on the working capital as well as the long-term side. And we would much rather structure products that are for that company, for that moment, for that time, for that event.

So when we do a back of the envelope calculation, your corporate yields basically work out to somewhere over 6%, 6.5%. So is that the right working, basically -- and because basically, you're doing more of AAA corporates, you are gaining market share as well. So that's the strategy that you are [ applying ].

I don't know the back of the envelope working, and I will leave it to [indiscernible] to provide you detail that is out in the public domain. But I would -- let me try and explain to you in terms of you cannot look at this as an absolute number. The way I would look at it this is how much of my book is floating versus fixed. So again, in terms of floating, whether it is linked to MCLR, whether it is linked to repo, whether it is linked to [indiscernible], what is going to be my ability to transfer wage hike to somebody else. So I can give out the fixed rate loan to someone wherein I can get a much higher yield, but the book ends up taking interest rate risk. The second way of looking at it is, I can -- as you keep going longer on tenor, your yield keeps on going up. So I can have an entire book long term and give you a much higher yield. But in that case, you are compromising in terms of the credit risk. I can go down in terms of quality of corporates, and as you keep going down the rating chain, you keep getting an increase in yield. But would I want to just want to balance the book well? So it's a combination of fixed versus floating. It's a combination of rating, it's a combination of tenor, and you need to look at it in that particular way. And we do believe that we would not want to do anything stupid just to increase yield and compromise on something that has been so beautifully built, and it's a pristine corporate bank book that has been created over the years. What you require in corporate bank relationship is continuity. And today, when I look at -- and when I look at the life of the bank, 27 years, and corporate bank was the first division that the bank started. Kaizad mentioned about it. One thing is consistency. We have scaled on course in the market for all 27 years. There has never been a year that to be exited. Now it takes years of relationship and engagement to actually build relationships. It takes a couple of years of effort to break into a large company. It takes another 2 years to cross-sell products. And if you are inconsistent in your strategy in terms of at one point in time, just go aggressive, pull back, go back, customers and corporate customers don't like it. So what we've built is step by step in a manner that we never have to joke our relationships. And that's the level of confidence we would bring in when it comes to the book composition and yield impact on a factor that comes in from the book that you've created.

So certainly, it will be on a lower side because that's a drag that is I just...

I think if I -- I don't know how many times you put it out before, but today, we did put out the RAROC. You can bring yield, but at what risk do you bring in the yield? And that's exactly what came out. I don't know how many corporate banks have that RAROC.

So we have one of the best a risk-adjusted return on capital in the banking industry, part 1. Part 2 is the process that we bring in. Now some of it may -- and some of the income that we generate may not fit within corporate line [ basically outside ]. But effectively, it is not about each division being a bank by itself because one bank, and what is it that you are contributing and taking the power of one bank [ to the plan ].

And secondly, on the fee side, we have done a lot of lending...

That is the last question. For our next session, I would like to invite Rahul Shukla, Group Head Commercial Banking and Rural Banking along with Mr. Jimmy Tata, to President, Commercial and Rural Banking.

[Foreign Language] I'll stand, but I need my partner, Jimmy Tata, without whom I'm very nervous. We're going to talk about commercial and rural banking. In fact, we're just 1-year-old as a group, and we celebrated our 1-year birthday on 1st May. It was such a vision that he created and we're going to try and basically explain what this animal is. There are several groups in the bank, which are all together. So you have the emerging corporate group, which is companies with turnover between 250 crores and 1,000 crores; you've got business banking, which is our wholesale SME business, from 7.5 crores to about 250 crore turnover. You've got EEG, emerging enterprise group, which is retail SME, which is 7.5 crores and below. Rural banking group, where we actually finance farmers for crop financing and other needs. Transportation finance group, which is commercial vehicle, some HAM projects, tractors and commercial equipment, et cetera, and we have health care finance. So the question that you would ask is that what is this hodgepodge together and why is it together? That is the #1 question. When I was told, I also asked myself the same question. The reason is that if you take a look at it, where do we distribute these products? It's all semi-urban and rural, largely. We have commonality of where we are distributing these products, that's number one. Number two, if you look at this entire product set, this is the PSL engine of the bank. So when bank is basically focused on growing PSL, this all grows up together. The third thing I would tell you, it's a very important but a fine point. You have a retail customer and you have mature corporate, who has needs that they have. Here, the life cycle is transitioning. Today, the retail SME is tomorrow's wholesale SME who's tomorrow's ECG and who's tomorrow's large corporate. To give you one sense. If you take a look at consulting studies, by the end of this decade, there would be 10,000 SME customers who are going to become mid-corporate, and they would have differing needs as they go through the life cycle. And there would be at least 1,000 customers from mid-corporate who will become large corporate. So our job is to basically keep changing. It is supposed to be like we are not an expert baller or we are not expert best man or batter as they call it, we are supposed to be basically that Hindu word [Foreign Language], all-rounder. So we are supposed to be able to get all parts of the bank and go out and sell this. So this is what the group is. Now when you think about it, what are we supposed to deliver? We are supposed to deliver 25% to 30% growth rate. This is quite simple. The second is earnings, which is, again, NIM and ROA. I think last year, when we did our ROA was, I think, about 3.7% or so. But you should always expect an ROA of basically significantly above the 3% number. And the third is enabler for the bank, which is about 65% to 70% of the bank's PSL today is generated by this group, and about 65% to 70% of the portfolio itself is PSL today. And we build all those products. I don't need to talk about it. You guys are all banking analysts so you kind of know basically the standard banking products that are -- we go out and deliver. Look at what we do, just highlights. We can talk about fees, we can talk about liabilities. But last year, we grew our average assets by about 26%. And that's a huge number on the back of 11% a year prior, and we increased our revenue by 26% on the back of a year prior, which was about 18%, right? So I mean, these numbers are pretty healthy. Total customer base, about 11 lakhs. We continue to add new-to-bank customers. And we have a GNPA ex agri of 1.15%, which continued to come down, right? Now you can look at this number and say, oh, great performance. But as an analyst, your question simply will be is the market large enough for me to continue to grow? And the second question, grow with the same quality that I have. And the second question is, do I have the strategy to go out and grow? And in the next few slides, I will simply cover basically these 2 questions. Is the market big enough? Do I have the strategy and everything in place to be able to continue to grow... This is -- let's take the MSME side, right? This is the MSME market side, not our creation. It's Transunion Cibil, BCG, Jefferies in a research report that came out. This is -- the total demand for credit in the space is about 50 lakh crores. And today, NBFCs and banks service only 20 lakh crores. There is 10 lakh crores where proprietors are borrowing against basically their assets, et cetera. And there's a 20 lakh crore, which is a credit gap. Now this 20 lakh crore, the total number of entities you would know, obviously, is about 6.5 crores. But 5 crores of these are not in the formal banking system, and they are borrowing 20 lakh crores from the informal market. Now as you think about it, basically slowly and progressively that 20 lakh crore is moving to the 10 lakh crore and the 10 lakh crore is moving to 20 lakh crore. It is an enormous opportunity. India is basically known for its IT prowess, but it basically creates about 50 lakh jobs. Start-ups, maybe a lack of jobs. But out of 6.5 crore entities, the micro entities is 6.25 crores. And I always say, in our country, the Chaturth Bania remains a Chaturth Bania, never becomes a Bara Bania. But if you look at all the government policy focus today, the push is that to take the micro and make him small or make her small, and in the process when you do it, you have to create just one new job, and that's 6.25 crore jobs. So in a country where jobs are needed, the entire politicians basically focus is on MSME for a reason. Because if you create that 6.25 crore job minimum, and if you take 4 members in a family, you are lifting the spending power of 25 crore people. So make no mistake. When I sit and do CRB, I think I'm basically doing the future of banking. So just said in jest, but that is how large this opportunity is. Let's look at what we've done. No numbers, but you see some growth rates, right? During the pandemic, 26% CAGR over there and last year, 44%. This is just the SME book, the retail SME and the wholesale SME. Now if you think about it, see here, well, you can't see this. You always talk in terms of slopes, and this slope is basically wider. During the pandemic, more and more customers in more places are coming and joining hands with HDFC Bank. Why? Why is the question. Why are they going to basically any other bank? Now when you buy a laptop today in Croma, I'm 100% certain that you are asking them to set up the laptop instead of bringing it home and doing it yourself. So when you think about a bank with a digital and a physical basically platform, customers want both. So the branch basically comes in over there. The second thing, if you go to Andhra Pradesh today, renewal of customer limits hasn't happened for 6 months. Six months, right? This is the state of the banking system. In HDFC Bank, it will take long, and long means 5 days, right, renewal of credit limits. That is what happens. The third thing is that during the pandemic, the guy said, either I can remain with my good luck bank because that was opened by my great grandfather, or I have the good luck, my business. I have to do LCs and I have to do transactions, and I have to just continue to run my business. And that is why that acceleration has happened. But because of that acceleration, the number of customers who have come to us, now we are playing the network effect because a promoter in Guwahati would have his son married to basically the daughter of a promoter in [indiscernible]. All that starts connecting immediately because your base is so large today a lot of these are not just brand steps, but also promoter referring promoter. And this is what, ladies and gentlemen, has made us the #1 MSME bank in the country. Whichever way you look at it, you look at basically Transunion's report or you look at any other data, today, our bank is the #1 bank, not #1 MSME private sector bank. When I say this, it's #1 MSME bank, period. And one of the lowest GNPA in the MSME segment. Look at this next slide. This is RBI data. It's pretty simple. March '20, we had a 12% market share. March '21, we had a 14.6% market share of MSME lending. And March '22, we had an 18.4% market share. Now you can always ask the question, how will you grow? But we continue to grow. You also should see that 16.6% market share in micro and small segment. So for anybody who has a concern about basically this type of PSL, your concerns are addressed right here, which is what -- where the bank is. The next question is in terms of just the geographical presence. Today, we do business in about 600 districts. 600 districts, this is a number that we have targeted. Over a 4-year period, we have grown from 450 districts, and we are fairly sort of evenly divided across. It's not that we basically go out and do something more in a particular segment or anywhere else. You think about a customer base, that is distributed across urban metro, as well as rural segment. It is distributed across micro, small and medium enterprises. But one fact when you think about whether I will be able to grow 6,338 branches of HDFC Bank, 5,331 do MSME business. Out of that, only 2,353, 2,300 branches, have an MSME book, which is more than 25% of that branch's asset book. So I have 3,000 more branches where we can focus and build it amongst our known customer base. And that is what differentiates basically the GNPA from us compared to everybody else. This is the GNPA slide. We've taken out the numbers. This is from Transunion Cibil, but this piece is HDFC Bank. And if you think about it, this is -- I don't know whether they take write-offs or not. But they have a number of, I think, about 1.4%, which reduced compared to September '21 by about 1.2%. You look at the entire private sector banking system, excluding HDFC Bank, that is about 7.8%. Go above to NBFCs, that's 10%, and this is about 20%. That is what the difference is. And when you control and when you think about bringing CRB where the yields could be basically between corporate and retail, the only thing that you need to do is basically keep controlling the GNPA and suddenly it becomes a cash cow for a bank. And that is what basically my simple remit is, which Jimmy and I try and together, execute on...

Rahul, allow me one second, please, if you can. I want to -- it's not just where that line is. Look how rock steady it has been through one of the worst calamities the country has been through. I think this is the strength of the bank. This is the strength for good selection. And without doubt, it is the strength of our sales and marketing engine that can just bring in quality so that you don't have to approve things that are not good. Sorry, Rahul.

Right. The next piece is agri. This is a topical point. There is something that the bank needs. This is something that the banking system needs between 2021 and December '21, between March and December, our market share increased from 6.13% to 6.4%. That is basically what it is. And our target market share by FY '24 is about 9%. Now to give you a sense, if you take a look at just the KCC portfolio size, which is in credit card, when we do a lot of other rural also in this group. But if you think about it, all private sector banks, put together, if you exclude HDFC Bank, that size of lending is 80,000 crores. Against that, HDFC Bank is about 65,000 crores. There's 80,000 crores of everybody else, there's 65,000 crores of HDFC Bank, and that is what basically the difference is. Now the second question that will always come is, what is the GNPA? And we started disclosing the GNPA. I can go back and tell you that if you look at the GNPA over the last 1-year period, from March '21 to March '22, or from December '21 to December '20, right, that particular period, HDFC Bank has significantly reduced its GNPA through its efforts, selection, collection, so on and so forth. In the entire system, the GNPA has increased quite dramatically. So it is a complete differentiator. We are building this book very thoughtfully. There are many different pieces that we have to build. And that is -- this is how we are doing it. Number one is geography penetration. We will be in 2 lakh villages. We said it last year when we were at about 98,000 villages. We started tracking and planning in terms of expanding our footprint. By March, we were in 1 lakh 30,000 villages. Next year, I mean, by March of next year, we'll be at 1 lakh 65,000, and we will be at 2 lakh villages. This is a presence which is unparalleled in the private banking space, and a lot of nationalized banking space as well. And 2 lakh is not a lot of villages. This country has 6 lakh 40,000 villages, so we're still playing in about 30% or so. But the nature of this lending is changing as we go about. Number 1 is diversification of crop. You know that there is a water crisis, groundwater crisis in the country because 90% of water usage is basically in agriculture. And 80% of that water usage is wheat, rice and sugarcane. We have to move to allied in terms of horticulture, different types of products, fruits, vegetables and other activities of agriculture, piggery, fishery, so on and so forth, which is what we are doing, and we are steadily increasing basically our share. Focus on government schemes. One of them is the agri intra fund. I must tell you, we are known for ECLGS as the largest disbursement of ECLGS. But in AIF, when the government ran a contest between 1st February and 15th of March, we were only second to Punjab National Bank in terms of going out and lending against this particular scheme, which is what the bank is very focused on because they're a great scheme. There are about 40 different schemes. You just have to follow the government and all of these are transitioning us away from water-guzzling crops to cash crops or value-added crops where the farmers' income increases instead of making INR 25,000 per annum on an acre. That farmer goes to about INR 3 lakh per annum. We simply have to be nonjudgmental and follow the schemes. The schemes are brilliant. And then we have to focus on small and marginal farmers, which is a regulatory target which is, again, we are doing it. We've grown 37% last year. We are planning to grow this about 100%, but it's a need that we have to go out and do. The next segment is transportation. To give you a sense, we are #1. When you take a look at all vehicle finance, you take any NBFC, you take any bank. In this year, we are #1, larger than the largest, and we do more financing for many OEMs than their own captive finance NBFCs. HCV market share, March '21 to '22, 28%; commercial equipment, 17%. That's 8% LCV/ULCV. And then tractor market share is, I think, about 8% to 9%. You do that. Now the next question is, can we grow, right? And is this business cyclical? So when the economy is doing well, you grow and then you go down. Our attempt is to change the nature of this business that we continue to grow irrespective of the economy and irrespective of the market share. And the next question is, how do you do that? It's so easy to say. There are 3.5 lakh commercial vehicles that were sold last year. Now you can focus on all the new equipment and keep financing it. But there are 2 lakh, basically, commercial vehicle, which traded in the used commercial vehicle market. That's a huge segment. Now I don't say go out and buy everything, but the guy who's buying a Daimler truck or a Volvo truck or a Tata refurbished truck knows what he's doing or knows what she's doing because those come at a premium, and you get a guarantee for about 6 months [Foreign Language]. So that is how it runs. So we have to go out and take a look at that. But more importantly, this entire space of equipment is only 3 lakh crores. But the working capital that is used by the transporter together with that is 7 lakh crore market, right? I'm only scratching the surface on that. But if I start pushing because you are the largest, you have the largest number of transporters, you have a great, basically, GNPA track record, et cetera. And suddenly, you have future-proof -- not future-proof but growth-proof that, whether the economy is growing or slowing, you will continue to grow. And that is what we are doing in the entire logistics ecosystem. The next is health care. Today, go out in every district, there are new hospitals coming UP before elections announce hospitals and medical colleges in 14 districts and now they're going to cover all the districts which is what is happening. There is a scheme as well as the government. We all know there's a lot of, basically, flows around that. We are very focused on that. Currently, the book size is small because hospitals have made so much cash flow during COVID that they pay it down. But the bank intends to continue to leverage its 3.2 lakh doctors. That is about 25% of the doctors who bank with us, 6,000-plus hospitals, 14,000 labs and 17,000 chemists, and we will basically build upon this particular area. So the market size is very large. Now how will we execute? What is our strategy? This is our strategy, growth, PSL and income, right? This is pretty simply put. How are we going to do it? On the left-hand side, geography expansion is a key tenet. We have to go deeper and deeper into the country. There is a market share gain because there is a large set of banking system, which is not able to service the customers, 6 months for renewal of facilities and so on and so forth. There are other, basically, large private sector banks who don't want to go deep into the country. If I go out and take a look at my travel schedule in the last 2 months or 3 months, I have gone to [ Burbank ], I've gone to [indiscernible]. These are places you would not even hear of. But that is where today business is. The third is customer acquisition. We have to continue at a large flip, government-sponsored schemes. I'm a great believer in that. Deeper village penetration, I basically asked my team that on 1 lakh [ 50,000 ] villages that we are, [Foreign Language]. That's all that we need to do. The thing is that is deeper village penetration. Logistics ecosystem and health care, we talked about. Rural, we talked about, high cash crop cluster we do it. How do we do, basically, in terms of origination? We look at branch. We have direct sourcing. We use VRM. Today, we sell tractors through Sampath's team. We use CSC and we do digital sourcing also. In terms of what is our people strategy, number 1 is succession planning that tomorrow, I'm not there, who's my successor? That is known. If any one of them is not there, who's their successor? You just keep going down deeper and deeper because this business is run by supervisors and you have to get it right. The second is deep managerial bank bench that comes with, basically, making people supervisors in remote locations. They don't overnight become great managers. You have to just nurture that. The third is regulatory training. And the fourth is just focus on productivity as to how many files are being done. This is our geographical expansion target. In the mid-market business, ECG, from 135 cities are going to go to 250 cities by the end of March '23. In terms of MSME presence, from 573 districts as of March 31, we will hit 650. It's a stretch target, but we are going -- making a go at it. And in terms of villages from 1.35 lakhs, we will go to 1.65 lakhs. How have our customers dealt with it? We don't talk much about it, but we have a digital system, which basically works. And it works because the customer is able to meet their entire needs. There are many customers who gush, I think that those are planted, gushing by RMs who basically say that, "Oh, we cannot exist without your platform and all that." So I discount it, but you keep hearing again and again. And even if I discount it, what I hear from Northeast, Kohima took us, everybody says that HDFC Bank is a good luck bank. [Foreign Language] Now when the MSME guy starts believing in it, he will never go, never go. But today, the common miss or otherwise in that community is that HDFC Bank [indiscernible]. So we do basically a platform which is complete. Today, almost -- about 75% of log-ins are happening digitally. Our goal is that by June 30, 50% of disbursements happen digitally. And then we continue to work on our digital engine for credit approval because the future at the lower end will be completely straight through processing in terms of digital. These are our goals. Everybody wants basically a forward-looking statement. The bank doesn't give it. But look, we have a target, 1 plus 1, 1 plus 1 and 1 plus 1, the same target, but the meaning of all this 1 plus 1 is different. This year, whatever was our book on March 31, built over 26 years, we will do the same amount in rupees crores of disbursements during the year. And we are tracking it, April, May, June, et cetera, and it is distributed across district. This is what we are going to do. Next year, whatever was our customer base, we are going to double the count of customers because 11 lakh is what? Around 6.5 crores. We want to do that. Now why is that coming later? That is coming later because we have system enhancements getting in place. I take 5 crores, people still don't bank in the formal banking system. We have to have a system that is able to take care of about 2 crores to 2.5 crores customers. Today, any bank's MSME system, 5% better, 5% lower and all that, we don't have to play around with all that shift. You have to build a system that can tackle that amount of volumes. And the third is basically doubling of revenue, not between '24 and '25 but from FY '22 to FY '25. So this is basically our third goal. After FY '25, the game of MSME is going to completely change. The way the business is done or we understand that is going to get a dramatic shift. But while we do basically all these volumes -- Jimmy, just stand a little bit, Bhavesh, you can also stand a little bit, I want to thank my ops partner and my credit partners and [Foreign Language] because this is what the bank is doing. Thank you. Now we open up for questions.

[indiscernible] for the private sector bank was from PSU market share acquisition. So could you give any flavor in FY '22 and FY '21, what were the new-to-bank customers in the MSME segment that was the [indiscernible]?

So the way I understand this question is that new to bank versus new to credit. Did I go and take, basically, a customer who's new to credit, not in the banking system, right? Now everybody talks about this question, sorry, but I just find this question to be superfluous and not relevant. And the reason I do that is that today, you are a PSU bank customer. I don't have a strategy to go out and take you. But the PSU bank customer wants a 20% enhancement because you've got a large order. Go to a bank. The processing time will be 60, 90 days. They will require more collateral. In my system, within 1 hour in the computer system without telling anybody, they can take that enhancement. They can go bid for the order and they can get that order. And even the customers who are moving to us from other banks, they just don't move unless they are very basically distressed with the service level, which also happens, but they would move with some enhancement because they have enhancing needs. These are guys all growing. I mentioned to you that by the turn of the decade, there are 10,000 SME customers who are going to become mid-corporate. And there are 1,000 mid-corporate customers who are going to go and become large corporates. Now when you think about it, they have continuing credit needs. And that is what we need to go out and service. 5 crore customers in the MSME space today are not in the banking system who will progressively, every year, keep coming. We have to be prepared for that. So the way I look at it, when I say, I will double the number of accounts that I do business with, right? That is not that this is PSU customer, I will acquire the ICICI Bank customer or Axis Bank customer. That thought doesn't even cross my mind. I look at why is my market share in Tripura, why am I #8 bank over there? That's a question to ask. I have a 23% market share in Gujarat, and I'm the #1 bank in MSME. I'm #1 in Rajasthan. But you take a road trip from over Bunder to Veraval, that stretch. A lot of fishermen, a lot of fishing nets, who's financing that? We are not. So suddenly, you find pockets where your market share is low. So you've got to go out and go out and provide your digital facilities. You've got to go out and provide financing, but you don't provide financing by, basically, only cutting rates. When the 44% growth happened last year, right, you can think that what happened to my NIM. My NIM went down by 1 basis point. The book grew 44% and the NIM went down 1 basis point. And at this point of time, what I'm looking at is between March 31 and September 30 that the yield of the entire book, the rupee book goes up by 50 basis points. So that's how we look at this market. It's a very dynamic market. And everybody, basically, whoever is a promoter, they have some -- what do you call it, [Foreign Language], a little bit ego. But everybody has, basically, built great businesses around everywhere. We just have to go and we support it, be humble and keep growing, and that's how we will continue to grow. Last question? Yes?

This one is for Jimmy. As you become the largest player in these respective micro markets...

No, no, not become, we are the largest. So correct that. Correct that, because then you guys will go out and write research report as you become -- what do you mean as you've become here? I mean the number of presentations here [Foreign Language]

So as you are already the largest player in this market, how do you address scale-related risk on asset quality?

What related risk, sorry?

Scale-related risk, but...

Jimmy, hold on. I'll give you some metrics, right? So you think -- so what are the goals of GNPA that we are driving? Health care, finance and ECG less than 0.5%. MSME business, retail and wholesale 1% GNP. You look at transportation finance, we are higher, I think, 1.2% or 1.25%. We're driving it to 1%. We can't do better than 1%. And when you talk about rural banking, our goal ultimately is to reach a GNPA of about 4%, right? That is the road map. You can always evaluate us on that road map as the bank goes and continues to publish. Now if you think about March 31 last year, [indiscernible], GNPA, CRB met, every quarter, we've had a reduction. So the bank is on basically that glide path to be best-in-class in terms of GNPA performance. And the number of customers, 6.5 crores to versus 11 lakh, I can still continue to grow. There are good quality businesses without diluting my GNP of tenders. Thank you.

Let me give you some comfort on this. If you look at the businesses encompassing CRB, we're probably the largest CPG financier in the country today. We are among the largest agricultural financials in the country today. We're the largest MSME financial. We didn't become this last year. We have been large enough for several years. So how do we manage it at scale? By doing exactly what we did when we didn't have the scale. We have a better and larger and more energetic marketing structure going out. You saw the penetration. You saw the penetration. And you saw one of the points made because I need to do 2 disbursements in a village and [indiscernible]. So it's not impossible to manage it if you actually have that kind of an infra. The infrastructure is large. We have a tradition behind this. We didn't do it in 2008. We haven't done it through COVID. Not a single person is let go. Everybody is given an increment and a bonus. Everybody is kept enthused so when the tide turns, they will run. What is the benefit of that running? Forget the growth for the bank. From a credit perspective, since you asked a credit question, the influx and the through-the-door quantum and quality that comes matches your policy. And when that happens, you're in a position to let it out through the door. You're also in a position to preapprove a whole bunch of it and several of these products are preapproved as well, and you actually managed to keep that quality exactly the same thing you were doing 5 years ago. We haven't changed policies. We haven't changed processes. We have only changed the amount of investment that we have put into drawing in quality business. Did I manage to answer it?

Very good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks, Rahul and Jimmy as a strong anchor. So I think let's begin the retail assets. I'm going to make an effort to -- one second, let me just check, yes. So my aim is to cover broadly these 3 aspects. So I'll give you a quick sense on what's our level of readiness as far as these kind of businesses are concerned. The reason I put the Xpress digital car loans, which is an industry first, we believe across the world probably, but it's a fairly solidly innovative. I've also taken the liberty of taking customer feedback in an auto industry is the dealer. You can't -- it's best that you hear them out. It's a minute or 2 video there I got for you to give you a sense. I also heard -- somebody made a point on how ready are we -- future ready are we on the digital side. So at least for retail lending, I'm going to give you a quick sense of what quality of products we've taken out so that you have what's our strength area in terms of coming up with indigenous product. Then a quick sense on what our fundamental strategy in retail assets is important to do it because we balance it off with 3 tenets very clearly on the foundation on which we grow. And then a quick sense of how indigenous strength retail lending has in the bank for all of you to kind of build confidence on why we believe we are on a more sure footing from here on. Okay. The fundamental assumptions of -- let me, in simplistic terms, what we've launched for the auto loan industry, and we believe is the first in the industry is most people in auto loans today, it's all physical documentation. You have to go to the dealership. Most people walk out of the dealership today without closing finance. At best, there's a talk of approval, which happens, but there's virtually a 1% or which gets dispersed in the industry. So what we've really done and we are producing to the market is that a customer could actually walk into a dealership. He could also walk into any of my thousands of branches. He may be an account holder. He may not be an account holder. But if he walks in and he says, "I want a car loan," both these entities, to give you a sense, and of course, the online journey, the most important. You're sitting at home, 24 hours by 7 and go on to Google and say, "I want to start financing which I can disperse in my space sitting at home." All these 3 options which were not possible earlier, as I talked to you, has gone live. So I could walk into a dealership and I could walk out with the loan dispersed to the dealer. I could walk into my branch. I could be any of my public sector banks or any other private account holder, but I could take a car loan from HDFC Bank. And in 30 minutes, with your video KYC done, you will leave with a complete dispersal done to your dealer and the car of your choice. So the fundamental is that while 90% of the car buying was there, there was less than 2%, which actually happened in to it. So this is really the assumption on which we started working. And it took us almost 2 years to get this done. We really used the COVID period to get this thing absolutely wired up and so that we are ready to go live with this. Initially, we're looking at around close to 30% of the business walking in this over the next 2 to 3 months or 6 months period. And the aim is that a bulk of the business in auto goes through this. It will build a multiple level of efficiencies. And more importantly, it's creating a massive customer delight. So it achieves 3 things. One is end-to-end digital learning. One is seamless across various touch points, and it's 24/7. So you could be on your Google, which I'll show you and actually how the journey spans up. I'll just take a minute or 2 of this so that -- this is not a me-too product. This is design thinking in an office. If I have to make my customer journey transformative, there is no like-to-like examples for us to replicate. It had to be build brick by brick, keeping everything simple. And of course, our systems and technology to make sure that we really wire this up and connect the doors for it to -- where the rubber hits the road, it kind of really flies at all touch points. Is the video before this or after? These are the fundamental major assumptions, which I shared with you that 90% of the car buying journey begins online, but some continue online to the dispersal stage. 40% of annual auto credit products grow in semi-urban and rural. So as the bank, you've been hearing since morning that -- our building our trust on the semi-urban, rural. Imagine if you got to expand your vehicle sales across the network, if you don't have a seamless journey option, even in an assisted mode by the way, it can be a very big strength. You just have to land up just 1 time. Otherwise, imagine you go land up 1 time, he's not ready with this documentation, you go again. It becomes to and fro. And the same thing which you do in a metro, if you have to replicate it across 50 kilometers, 60 kilometers, you can well imagine how important this product is. Even in an assisted model, you can actually own a mobile app, close it end to end. This needs massive strength operated at the back end for us to pull it off. 50% of incremental space, again, semi urban, rural as were most of the reports, 80% of manufacturers build dedicated channels. We are building an online platform. But unless the financing world connects to this for dispersal, most of the online platforms or the car sales can't be executed because the bulk of them happens to be car financing. So the minute we get activated, we received overwhelming response from the leading manufacturers on the way we're moving forward. And as we move into the Phase 2, we'll get more seamless. I think maybe it's a good time right now that I take you through the video first, if I can request you for the video. These are the channel partners who actually have seen the demo and get a first-hand feel. [Presentation]

Okay. Moving on to the retail assets, fundamental strategy. Let me just quickly give you a sense on how do we build this business consistently over the years. And I'm confident to take it from here on consistently at, probably, a 20% plus growth rate. It's extremely important that we run with these top 3, which you see is an uncompromised tenet on which we run this business. One is absolute solid, consistent, good quality portfolio. They're best-in-class yields and margin across industries and consistently operating at prudent pricing. On the distribution side, if you actually go out in the market, we have a substantially large open market acquisition across a set of retail asset products. We almost have the first right of refusal at most touch points. One of the biggest trends, which I just gave you a quick sense of the new product that we launched, and I'll probably end it with a couple of just a summary of what all products we've launched, which are completely indigenous, they're not me-too. They're absolutely bang on real, and this has opened a completely new flood gate. They have started with keeping the customer at the center, work backwards, virtually like a fintech probably would do it. If I were to start my own fintech company, probably it wouldn't be any different than what we've done in the bank. These are our own indigenous products. There's virtually nothing that we had a benchmark to. We started the journey with the 10 second, and then I'll cover that here. One of the important aspects I put the point number 6 is because I think it's going to be a substantial amount of growth, at least from a private bank like our perspective, is the government focus. We are putting in a massive amount of effort. The way we're doing rural and semi-urban as a key strategy with our carpet bombing of geography. We're adding the strength of the government business in a big way. I think that's a big forte for the public sector. And I think just the way you've seen private banks creating a huge arbitrage of business opportunity with public sector since the time they were launched in India, I see this as a very big opportunity for the next 2 decades, leave alone the next 3 years to 5 years. And of course, the world over is talking about when your debt to GDP is in the range of 18%, 19%, they actually go the next 5 years much better than the previous slide. You've seen that in most developing countries. So keeping that as the background and keeping these fundamentally as your foundation because none of them we would want to compromise, whether we do digital, we do indigenous, we will never compromise the pristine quality because the aim is not just digital in itself. The aim is not just top line in itself. We like to be the most -- known to be the most sensibly priced. We like to be the most sensibly activating our growth in a matured and sensible manner, but of course, in a fairly robust growth manner the way I see it. Quick sense of a couple of products. On the unsecured side, as I mentioned to you, I think government is going to be a massive growth engine for the unsecured business with a very, very sensible delinquency levels and consistent. We've even seen during COVID, and we'll ask Jimmy to probably give a sense, even through the toughest phases, I think unsecured has really held the ground very solidly. We seem to be garnering even more confidence on our credit quality. I just covered the Xpress digital car loans. It's an industry first 24/7. It's not just for existing customers, not just for account holders. We are taking this on further, and that's the differentiator. We're taking it on to any account holders and it can become a major acquisition tool as well. Consolidating gold loan branch. So this is an important one. On the gold loans, you heard the Managing Director in the morning, we are, in a conscious manner, substantially increasing our gold loan distribution by around 3 to 4x. And we expect that kind of an area to really -- and the second part of the financial year, to pick up massive robust growth visibly more than normal year. I think the digital end-to-end personal loans, which is only for existing customers on the 10-second side. We are working on an end-to-end solutions for new-to-bank customers probably launched by the third quarter for this financial year, which itself could be a very fast moving and create another strength of acquisition tools across. Yes, expanding geographies across retail assets is a continuous journey for us. Expanding boundaries with speed across, expanding reach in semi-urban and rural areas. If you see most of our products, including a complex product like auto loans, which has interdependencies, it's not like personal loan to you, bank to your account. This is a far more complex, which we had to track. We are building an infrastructure and actually the rubber is hitting the road. So I think we're confident, like I shared with you on substantially enhancing our productivity with all this because you can quickly move on to the next case. So we're expecting our sales productivities to kick in. If you look at process reengineering and enhancing analytics capability, our aim is to constantly challenge ourselves and reduce our processing tests because we do believe these consumer businesses will need speed to be challenged at all times for us to move forward and then add to the customer experience. There are aggressive plans in place to grow the bank's home loan portfolios, 3 fundamental tenets I see for building on the home loan businesses as things pan out. And yes, the mergers announced, we see HDFC Bank bringing in on the table the corporate salary account holders' strength, which has a huge untapped potential or other potential which could be unleashed as we progress from here on. The government segment with the banks' already embedded strength, connecting the dots would be a big sales turnover kicker. If you look at enhancing the DSA networks, these are in other areas. If you look at most of our retail lending products, we've got a massive strength of partners working with us for 2 decades. And these are strengths which can be leveraged fundamentally for an enhanced home loan experience from here on. Yes, we are investing in this segment in a bigger way this year. We're going to be moving solidly step by step to make it a success. Boosting our analytics skill sets on the home loan is going to be another area. For most of the retail asset products, we have a very strong analytics backing of preapproved on account holders. I think we're building that kind of strength on to the home loan side. And as things -- as the regulatory approvals come in, we're hoping that this will add massive strength. Our existing strengths get passed on even to the home loan side. The digital loans origination at the front end of the loans against property is already built in. We are experiencing a very good sign of -- that's the mortgage side that I'm talking about. Most private banks actually have -- if you see their portfolios, we have a huge upside here compared to most of the private banks, which are usually relying on this versus from where we are. So I see a fantastic growth rate opportunity for the bank with this, and our strength added to this, like on a bit-by-bit connecting view. Just a quick summary before I end because I think it's very important to remember, along with the Xpress loans that I shared with you, the retail lending in this bank has constantly innovated. We started with the 10 second loan. Even today, we do a massive amount of business on the 10 seconds loan. We started with personal loans. Today, we have business loans. And across the bank, we have this property generating amount of strength. We could also take -- imagine the top of opportunity, even subsequent once the regulatory approvals come in, you could actually add strength even to the home loan side and we could look at that, at least the comfort for the customers. If you look at the strengths of our preapproved offers, straight-through processes, I think this has been one of the most encouraging foundation, which has opened our innovation goals across various levels. That first product actually forced us to rethink ourselves, and we went to the regulators to design something which is digital loans against share. So we didn't invent loans against share, but we made it digital. It used to take 7 days. It takes 3 minutes. And if you look at 81% of the cases get dispersed today digitally. If you look at whether it's online or instant available for both depositories, NSDL and CDSL as we talked and no documentation required. If you look at, for mutual funds, we didn't invent the loans against mutual fund, but we made it digital in the industry. This, again, they didn't have any free product design in the market. This was done absolutely bottoms up and this is how it's shaped up. Almost 90% of the cases get dispersed digitally. Unsecured journey, which I said is coming soon, probably is by the third quarter. We are confident that we should be able to bring it on the table and create a new set of excitement on it, just the way we've done it along with our marketing and the entire bank. Thank you so much. Over to any questions that you guys have.

Would your segment be similar? Are we [indiscernible]?

See, I think government, like I said in my opening remarks, when government offers is predominantly even on retail. If you actually see penetration levels, it's predominantly public center. So the minute you launch and open up non-account holder personal loans, and we are launching non-account holder offers, I mean some of these products, public sector banks, even the bank you mentioned doesn't have it. So I think we're going to be constantly working towards trying to make it even if it's not end-to-end customer, Google-oriented digital. Even if it offers in an assisted mode, imagine somebody comes to you and just closes the whole dispersal before he leaves, he just changes the experience, and we are hoping that should enhance massive strength on the government side for us because your government business also is directly correlated to your liabilities in the government side. And if you look at the public sector banks, the head start they have, they have a substantially high penetration on the liability side. And as a bank, we are beefing that up in a big way. We are beefing the government in a big way. We're beefing the rural and semi-urban in a big way. So the retail assets actually will have to have products, which could probably move with speed with closure and move on to the next case. And actually, the penetration levels could substantially increase and that's why the opportunity is very big. If you see as a subset, the growth there is a substantially high percentage, which we already see.

[indiscernible], that answer to your question is yes. The competition here would be public sector banks, not just state banks. There are many large public sector banks well entrenched in many government and PSUs on the retail side. They went in. But yes, that is the competition.

I had a question on the DSA sales of mortgages. When you were doing it for HDFC Limited, was that activated? And how large is it vis-a-vis a bank channel, right? Because we're only discussing about branches doing mortgages. Can you talk about -- because for a secured product, DSAs can be a very large part of what you can sell in mortgages.

Yes. So the answer is, it is activated in a very small manner, but it's not activated in a full grown manner. So the opportunity is like substantially leads beyond what is just barely scratching the surface level.

And how does the profitability compare because eventually those loans can get transferred out because it's coming through an agent plus you have to pay a fee. So just saying that the DSA mortgage versus what the branch originates, how different they could be?

I think they would be as different as you do it for personal loans or you do it for anything else. The monetary fee is proportionate to the kind of input they bring in. And if you look at the bank, we've always focused the right mix between internal channels and external channels. And obviously, internal channels are more profitable. But I think if you reach about the size and scale average, I think A plus B plus C, all possible channels, including our telecalling channels, brand channels, they're going to be activating all possible on the scale limits.

Just on the gold loan piece, you mentioned in your presentation that you are planning to increase it to almost 3x the number of locations than what you currently have, right? The dynamics of this business are very, very different. Doing it in the metros that are on whatever 2,000 locations versus taking it to semi-urban and rural locations, the cost levels are different. The customer segmentation is very different. So how do you plan to achieve and what kind of target that you have related to this business? That's the first question. Related questions to this business, would your customer base be similar to that of in some of the NBFC gold loan, NBFCs that are currently there in the market? And lastly, would this be a bundled product because in the past, we had few products like gold loan plus unsecured personal loans kind of products. So would you be launching such kind of products into rural and semi-urban location? And if you can give some sense on the product profitability and how it helps you to achieve the PSM as well.

Okay. A quick sense for you: a, I think we're going to leverage our branch distribution; and we're working around leveraging our existing infrastructure for gold. So that's the strategic call we've taken. So let's say we were 1,100-odd branches, we're going 3x and we probably continue this growth rate to all our branches over the next 2 years to 3 years. That's the strategic call that we have taken. I think the idea of redoing gold loans is, yes, to also create some amount of secured strength even in the agri side because in here you're well aware of the kind of gold that is there. So to answer to that question, yes, there will be possible gold products, which will combine and bring in more secured flavor and more sensible credit background to a couple of these as we evolve from here on. I think on the idea of scalability, we are not looking at very small ticket size with gold's loans. If you look at the hardcore tools, these kind of companies, our positioning will be to better quality customers. The idea is not to do the absolute bottom of the pyramid for now, but we'll evaluate and be open to evaluating that as well. But right now, the plan is to do much higher ticket size. I think the size is substantially [ better ] and that's what our focus area is. Because we see a lot of customer feedback coming in that they want a gold loan -- gold again -- loan against gold. And that's also one of the reasons to service. To strengthen our service offering at all the branches was also the idea of creating this product.

So are we operating in the segment like 13% to 15% kind of a yield in this product? I'm not looking at the specific number, but I'm just trying to understand the customer positioning that you have versus...

We have pricing, which is pretty much on the website, but pricing is different for internal customers. Pricing is a subject which is dependent on -- depending on your risk profile, we have that kind of pricing and it's in public domain. But we are not pricing ourselves. We're pricing ourselves for the larger regular customers. That's the whole idea because we believe there's a lot of feedback came to us that I think a lot of customers across our branches have this need. So that is one of the reasons to strengthen the service offering. As you heard the MD talk about strengthening our ability to service customers, so that's one of the reasons we're expanding.

Okay. And as we go deeper and deeper, the turnaround time would be slightly higher versus that of [indiscernible]?

So we're working on digital options there with some of the fintechs. We might partner with some fintechs very soon to kind of give it strength on the gold side. And subject to regulatory approvals, that also means that's not [ there ].

Gold, if I can just answer your core issue, yes, it is different. So gold is a product that involves considerable operating risk and very low credit risk. If the loan is not repaid, it -- so gold loans are a product that we measure the NPAs in crores. We don't measure it in percentages. That's the kind of quality that we have achieved through the operating setup that we have put in. To answer you a little more directly, yes, we are always ahead of the branch expansion curve in terms of this infrastructure to be set up. So we would ensure we have the right infra in place, the right vendors in place and obviously, the right trained staff in place to do it because once you get that operating risk right you're fine. Your customer profile, I would assume, would be -- there'd be an overlap with the existing NBFC players, no doubt about it. There would be an overlap. But we have noticed a slight differentiation in the credit quality because we have started monitoring bureau stats and those sort of things for our customers, and we have noticed them to be a little different. But as we go deeper and deeper, I definitely don't want to promise that. So you should take that answer home as, yes, it would probably be the same customer. But frankly, that doesn't matter. You get your operating risk in order. You're not going to lose money in gold loans.

All right. Thank you so much, Mr. Kapil and Mr. Tata.

This session is actually 2 sessions. The first part will be about the payments business, the bank's payment business. And second, we'll talk about our digital and the technology full play for the bank, okay? I have my colleagues, both Ramesh and Jimmy here. So I'll take you through the payments. We'll structure this way. I put together some thoughts and our plans in a sense in terms of the strategy about the payment business. We'll talk about that first and sort of end with questions and answers. I have a few digital initiatives also embedded in the print, I'll talk about them. But since we are doing the -- immediately after the tech and the digital, we have a suite of some demos also planned [indiscernible]. So we've [ clubbed and kept ] the demo session as one on this to some of the things which I -- will be covered by the digital team. Okay. So here on, okay. What I'll try to take you through is our thought process. First of all, I'll tell you how we are placing the payment business, where we are, what we do, how big we are, our dominant presence, okay? Talk a little about how the payment business and why the payment business is so important to the bank, what does it really bring to the bank beyond this traditional fee income, investments, et cetera, et cetera, okay? Take you through the elements of our strategy. The strategy is not just about what products we're going to launch, but fundamentally, how we look at payments holistically, how we see that as a deep engagement product category for customers, how it links back closely to the larger retail and wholesale bank strategy and then, therefore, how we look at payment business as a holistic value creator for customers and for the bank. So that's the element of the strategy. And then I'll take you through a couple of the initiatives which we are planning to go over the next 2 or 3 quarters. Okay. So just to give you a high-level view of where we stand. The payments business is 3 parts of a stool, if you make also, one part, what we call the issuing business, which is all about making payments, making payments to customers, by customers who incorporates to institutions. These are the instruments which we issue or the issuing instruments to consumers, like you and me, to corporate SMEs, what have you, et cetera, all that wherever you need payments. There -- and without even getting into kind of form factors, multiple form factors. Again, we're clearly building, number one, on both numbers and in terms of our spend. And we've got the full range with a full suite issuing bank. We cover the entire range of payment channels. The second part, a very important part of the issue -- of the payment business is what we call the network and the receipts business, okay? so -- and that's what we traditionally call the acceptance business. It's 2 parts, building the core network and receiving payments. All of what you traditionally call the physical costs of the online payment gateway business or the QR business, et cetera, is about establishing a network of being able to take money from point A to point B. We're connecting the entire ecosystem. And therefore, an extremely important infrastructure play in the payment space. And of course, giving the ability to merchants, merchants I'm talking of them generically, could be a small grocer. It could be a small -- an SME and could be an institution, could be consumers like you and me, to be able to make any form of payment. And therefore, what we offer is a full suite of online, off-line and remote acceptance solutions. Once again, clearly #1 there. In fact, our acquiring business in terms of dominance is, in fact, even larger than the acceptance business, close to 45% to 50% market share depending on what you look at. And if you take on a weighted average card acceptance, you take UPI, which is the new kid on the block. And if you take the commercial banking and the corporate institutional payment channels, all put together, we have a roughly weighted average share of about anywhere between 25% to 30% of the money movement which happens in the Indian economy. That's the network which we've created, and that's the kind of money movement we [ want to pursue ]. Riding on top of that acceptance lines are completely issuing business. The third leg of the payment business is the lending at the point of sale or EMI business, as you call it, the ability to convert what you purchase into equated in monthly installments or what we call the consumer finance or the consumer durable business. This is a business which spawned off the entire payment business. We ride on the core clear network business, which was created on the acceptance side. Here, aside of Bajaj, which is the largest NBFC in that space, we are the largest bank in the consumer finance space, 3 core form taxes, card-based lending and, of course, digital lending or what people used to call paper finance lending. We are very clearly the #2. We also have a suite of products which happened post purchase. And then when you take together during purchase and post-purchase kind of funding of consumer purchases, et cetera, clearly make for a very significant play. We look at the payments business. Value to the bank, I'm not going to read out what it is. But like I said, 1 key part of the value which you bring to the bank is the P&L, the core metrics, the MDR, the interchanges, the gross interest income, the fee income there on and so on and so forth, which build to the direct pay, that's the direct value of the business, okay? But increasingly, increasingly and more so the way we look at the payment business, is it the kind of throughput value which you bring to the rest part of the business? So how much of liability business does it sort of entice and bring forward to the customer, whether it's through the acceptance side or the issuing side? How much of deep engagement that we do? For example, one perspective in the way we look at the issuing business is amongst all financial service products, cards, cards of issuing payments is probably the only business which drives frequency of contact with the financial service product once, twice, 3 times a day. There's hardly any other financial product, which drives that. Okay. Increased frequency clearly demonstrated leads to deepening of the relationship, deepening as reflected in either cross-sell holding, product holding or increased frequency and engagement in terms of the liability build up, okay. So that's the kind of tertiary effect, which sort of issuance -- the issuing and that's one of the key impact. We talk of brand image. Obviously, the issuing business credit cards, co-branded cards, what have you and multiple few are seen as the heroes of the financial service business. These are what you see on full page papers and therefore bring about a very strong positive rub-off on the brand image, which we think. And the other very key portion of that is the role of the payment business is, whether it's for a consumer like you or me, whether it's for an institution or a corporate where we have our commercial solutions [Audio Gap] amount of customer engagement. That's number one. It derisks from vagaries of commercial intervention or pricing intervention which happen in the marketplace, very simple put. The payment business is about low unit margins. And as you know because of various other competitive features or maybe because of regulatory thing, you may see, in some areas, some of the unit economics actually going downwards. Scale. Scale really take care of that listing. And therefore, our strategy is based on building as much scale and the kind of infrastructure which we built on scale. So these metrics really reflects the kind of dominant market share which we have in terms of scale. Taking you to a certain -- a couple of more -- next level metric, both on the credit card portfolio, merchant acceptance business, okay? We're really talking about the quality of the portfolio, the quality and depth of customer engagement. I talked about deep portfolio management. Profitability, for example, in this business and sustained profitability comes after you source the customer. So the way we look at 1 dimension of building the payment business is, first thing, acquisition is very important. Acquisition is for building scale of tomorrow. And you constantly need to keep the tap open and the funnel open. Once you onboard these customers, okay, getting these guys active -- customers activated -- customers and merchants active, getting customers to keep on spending, getting customers to bring on a bulk of their wallet share, okay, on to HDFC main payment instrument will be the key driver of our portfolio message and that begets sustainability of the book buildup and profitability. Some of these metrics greatly indicate the kind of book buildup, the kind of spend, which we've built on our portfolio and in doing the merchant acceptance business. Begetting from this very clearly, shifting gears to -- what are we trying to say? 5 to 6 years back, the competition landscape or the landscape which we looked at for the payment business was traditional banks. So there were a couple of main banks. They were all in the card business where some of them were in the acceptance business. But over the last 5, 6 years, very clearly, the nature and competition has clearly changed. You have multiple more entities coming in. Payments being the entry point for many business models of the nonbanking players which have come into space. I won't mention it too. But for example, you've got a host of mobile app players, which are strong in their own respective domains, okay. It could be food delivery, it could be travel, it could be -- what have you, et cetera. Payments become a key fulcrum entry point to their business, okay? And hence, you see proliferation of players wanting to be payment players as well. A lot of that rides on the network which banks have also created, but a lot of them also talk about the innovation and payment in the payment space and each and one of these players. What has this created? This has, therefore, created -- on 1 side, 1 way of looking at it is that intense competition from 1 competition, we've created 6 different new players. And that's right, if you look at it from that perspective. But on the right-hand side, we've actually mentioned the kind of new opportunities, which have been created going beyond just the traditional card issuing or a cost placement kind of business, okay? And these are the areas which we're talking about. For example, I'll just talk about a couple of them. Small ticket lending. I'll just pick up one of them. I'll talk about NTC pie increasing. What do I mean by that? So small ticket lending, BNPL, small, low line limit cards. People who want to do an EMI on a ticket size as low as INR 4,000. These were traditionally not lending areas for the card business, okay? But with the emergence of a significant amount of consumption, which is happening with a much higher frequency than what used to happen, that's point number one. With the amount of consumption, which is happening in smaller towns, deeper geographies, et cetera, there's been clearly a need to ensure that even for small ticket purchases can we offer lending solutions, thereby ensuring that many, many more customers get on to the electronic bandwidth. Okay. So small ticket lending, it spawned of products like BNPL, probably talk about it in the Q&A session. But payment products, both credit and debit, clearly lend to the other things because you've got lines underwritten and you've got people, et cetera. How do you get these people to use that product? Well, that's created another opportunity beyond the traditional targeting business. The NTC pie, what do you mean by NTC? These are new to credit, the thin file, the minus 1 kind of new customers. Significant amount of customers who are using UPI, for example, who probably use only cash and now getting on to the credit bandwidth. What does that mean? One is, it means your new sourcing model channels to build to reach out to many of these NTC customers. What does that also mean? It means a different look at the way you build your scorecard, the way you look at credit and underwriting these kind of models, and therefore, brought about a significant change in the way you underwrite, in the way you sort of score these customers, in the way you get to the kind of lines which you give, the way you kind of look at risk management, okay? So that brought about another change in the kind of business model and the way you look at risk underwriting, acquisition, customer mix. These are the variables which have sort of significantly changed. You see differences in behavior in NTC versus people with credit lines, okay? And that's, once again, brought about [indiscernible]. Platformification. Just to talk another third piece and a lot of that is embedded in our strategy. Platformification, from moving from point product same solutions to ensuring that 1 box, plug-and-play, 5 different product solutions offered on 1 platform. That's the way a lot of our strategy, which has evolved driven by the fact that, earlier when you could have -- when you are my competition, and you also had a very similar suite, now I've got all of you on this table offering different parts of the payment ecosystem. You're offering BNPL, you're offering a digital QR solution. You're offering a prepaid card guys, there's a credit card, you're offering something else. Platform application is one longer-term, long, sustainable way to say, hey, come to me. I'm one service player. I've got the full suite of products. I've got all of that which we offered, okay. And at different stages in your life cycle, I can offer you any one of these products at any point of time. So platform application is our strategic direction to say, I'm a full-suite player. I have full suite of products, come to one, the largest players in the financial services space with the best brand and now connected. So I just sort of talked about three, but I'll mention all of this, and these are part of our strategy as we go forward. The strength strategy, as I talked about, six core pillars, which we've sort of built upon it, covering acquisitions, covering digital innovation, covering very strong product, best-in-class products and, of course, expanding of form factors, comprehensive portfolio management. The reason why I talked about stakes, like I said, the way we look at the issuing business, and maybe I'm repeating myself, is a holistic approach to payments is what builds for a very strong, sustainable and profitable franchise. It's not just about saying that, hey, I've got 10 million or 15 million or 25 million cards. It's what to do after that, which is important. So step number one is important. To get to that -- those kind of acquisition numbers, we need to have the best-in-class products, you need to have a best-in-class onboarding experience, okay? And that's why that's one part of [indiscernible]. But subsequently -- and I keep on saying with a lot of hindsight and 20 years' experience, acquisition and getting on numbers is 2% of the game. The 98% of the game of running a profitable business, only after you acquire the customer and clock in those headline kind of numbers. And all of that we do, all of that we do subsequently is about getting on the customers, getting them active, getting them to spend, getting them to spend again and again and again throughout the 24/7. Managing his delinquency, for example. And the same cycle, once again starting to accept improvement. So these 6 key factors built for our holistic overall strategy in this business. Embedded, if you see in, for example, top-notch products and sales and embedded [indiscernible] in terms of platform application, okay. We talked about things like partnerships, et cetera, et cetera. And I leave some of those questions to you. But platform application, partnerships, building on larger ecosystem, players like PayZapp, which we have, and I'll talk about PayZapp and SmartBuy which we're building are deep portfolio engagement strategies, which we built into our larger acquisition, issuing strategy. Coming to the acquiring strategy. Once again, we have again six key players. If you see the pillars are more or less similar, and we've adopted a similar strategy on both as we are a very large player. Dominate 40%, 45% share in the card acceptance business, and about 14%, 15% share in the UPI and the P2M space, et cetera. We believe, once again, scale is the driver of our large network effect. Partnerships. Significant amount of partnerships in it. For a minute, let me dwell upon the why of partnerships. Partnerships bring us two key benefits. One is, very simple. I'm the largest player in the payment space, and I have significant domain knowledge and strength built up over the last 20 years. So why do I partner? I partner with like-minded or people who have -- for two key reasons. One is, can they get the bank in a joint manner, okay, entry into new customer segments or deeper penetration into segments where the bank may not be as strong by jointly working together. That's number one. And jointly working together means the partners bring together their respective strengths. Can we offer a much more significant value than what's available in the market. That's one core reason for why we do partnership. The second core reason why we do partnership is very clearly. It's a new-to-bank acquisition strategy for the bank. You've seen the various other presentations and probably the other liability presentation, which you see is that when you got a 60 million, 65 million customer franchise [Audio Gap] and stay with the impending merger, there's going to be another multiple of customers really coming. All of these are HDFC Bank customers, broadly. My penetration of the electric cards into the HDFC Bank basis is around about 20, 25 odds. On the acceptance side, it would be close to around 20 -- again, 20%, 22%, which means we've got significant headroom to grow on the bank's internal base. We build the channels and -- the distribution channels and the outreach multiple channels to sort of penetrate the bank base. Having said this, that customer bank base is only a subset of the larger repos. The new-to-bank, the open market, as you typically call, how would you do it? Either I do it myself or I use partnerships. Partnerships bring in a very defined and focused way of targeting on select new-to-bank segments and categories where we can do this. One of the areas where we, for example, would work together with a partner is how can we look at our partner's database? Pre-approve, look at their metrics, look at the additional database, which the partner brings onboard. Preapprove them, put them into what we call a very safe and secure data room exercise protocol. Pre-approve them, and when you go to those markets and stay on the partner's website, you can actually offer him a preapproved card, just giving you one of the key activities typically which we do. So that makes our sourcing easier than going just beyond [indiscernible]. So I just wanted to dwell on partnership because I know it will save some of the questions. On the consumer finance strategy and the affordability strategy. Once again, like I said, we ride very clearly on the large merchant acceptance footprint, which we've created both online and off-line. All of the merchants who are dealers in consumer durables, wide growth, ground growth and many other lifestyle products, which require financing at the point of purchase are merchants of mine, enjoys acquiring relationships, the liability relationship. And then I put on top of it the consumer financing relationship, which I can prove for his customers. We bundle that with what we call inventory financing, and that makes for a very large dealer ecosystem, which we now do. Where we're actually talking two core businesses, the acquiring business, the consumer finance business. And then we've got this large set of credit cards and debit cards on which we've enabled what we call the card EMI, and that makes for a very large virtuous ecosystem. And that's the core pillar. That's the benefit, for example, which we talk about how the consumer finance business, very important from a consumption perspective and also extremely important by leveraging the assets which we built into the business. So fundamentally, once again, riding on the distribution, which we've already created and expanding the distribution; dealers and brand partnerships where you've got a significant amount of customer footfall happening; very strong product and sales management to ensure that we've got cutting-edge point-of-sale financing products available; and of course, deep portfolio management, which you need to ensure. Typically, an asset business is a onetime annuity business, which you make also to disburse. We don't connect with the customer throughout the life cycle of the product until and unless he either closes his loan or he goes typically. But the whole -- the consumer finance being a smaller ticket and a smaller tenure kind of business, repeat purchase drives a lot of stickiness. So there's a different amount of portfolio management, which you can [indiscernible]. So these are the strategies which we've sort of built up across the three. I'll pause here for a minute to let it sink, and then I'll take you through two or three key digital initiatives, just 2 or 3. There are many which are going on, but two, three, which I'll take you through, to take you through the level as to why are we doing these two, three digital initiatives. We have demos for some of them, and the demos will be taken through when we reach -- when we go through the digital and the tech phase. So PayZapp 2.0. I know a lot of questions will be there, especially in the Q&A session. But what are we talking? This is a complete comprehensive mobile commerce payment app which we've created. There is a version of PayZapp 1.0, which is currently out in the marketplace. We launched that in about 2016. The whole idea of that is to create -- is to actually create what you call a holistic payment app ecosystem. What do I mean by that? Can a customer in one app get multiple modes of payment which you can use mobile tools, can he use all his cards at which -- at that point in time, there was no UPI, but now can you use UPI, can you use wallet. And at the same time, offer him a holistic shopping experience by bringing in another property, which is SmartBuy into that. So therefore, bring all payment forms and can you offer him the entire suite on a commerce platform -- end-commerce platform of the multiple kind of merchants and offers which we do. And these merchants are the people who are part of my merchant acceptance business. That was the whole process. PayZapp 2.0 is around the corner. We'll talk about some time line subsequently. It is around the corner, and we want to make it even more powerful, obviously. It will be -- like I said, it will deliver two, three key objectives for the bank. One is, like I said, it's going to become a very strong customer acquisition tool. We've got plans. We currently have 3 million active users on PayZapp. Of our total base of approximately 15 million customers, 3 million are active on a monthly basis. But the idea is to do multiples of that acquisition. So PayZapp will become a very strong customer acquisition channel for us, number one. PayZapp will become a very strong portfolio tool for us. Many of us mobile being a very large transaction platform for all of us, by offering the entire suite of payment rules and UPI on top of it. And of course, all the merchants which bring to the offers within print. We offer a very strong portfolio tool to be able to ensure that all the payment needs of the customer [indiscernible]. We offer multiple ways for payment. So PayZapp will be accepted in far more number of merchant acceptance outlets beyond just if you talk of in-app, you talk of money transfer, you talk of QR, you talk of tap and pay, the entire suite of payment options is what we sort of building it in. We leverage our entire merchant acceptance network. So the plan is -- and this is an interoperable instrument, so this will be available in 25 million-odd merchants, PayZapp, as and when we launch. Talk a little about the stack. It's a completely new revamped stack. It's cloud native from day 1. It's containerized. It's completely based on API integration and product changes, merchant integration. Partner integrations become an extremely simple exercise. It's deeply integrated to the bank system. And so therefore, there's a lot of fungibility between the kind of bank instrument, which we will offer. And PayZapp, by the way, the final objective of PayZapp will also will be a very strong cross-sell platform. So once you onboard a person on to PayZapp and make him adopt a payment habit, he will get a lot of his preapproved loans. There are a lot of other preapproved offers inside PayZapp. So it becomes one large ecosystem in which we sort of operate, okay? Like I said, the demo, we'll take you through a demo of the product. The launch is around the corner. We'll talk about that a little later. These are some metrics which we have on our current PayZapp, PayZapp 1.0. This is what we are actually doing currently right now. We're talking of 3 million active users, which are currently there. The kind of ticket sizes we do, we own the kind of spend mix, which we today have on the current. And PayZapp 2.0 aims to multiply all of these key metrics as and when we launch this plan. This is one important strategic digital initiative, which we have in the payment business. The second is a completely full stack digital -- purely digital card stack. Today, we have a conventional stack, which relies on digital platform, and that's the card business that you see. But increasingly, there is a clear need to have a completely virtual card, card issued on the fly, do-it-yourself card, change it as you do, customize through the power of one kind of platform. We're in the process of building a complete stack of this thing. And going forward, we clearly have a suite of -- a range of digital -- only-digital virtual cards available typically on the fly again, mobile base. Again, this is a stack which is sort of being constructed as we speak. So this is the second large initiative we have on the card space. We have -- with the advent of card controls, which came in an RBI initiative, which ensures that you needed customer consent to enable a lot of card payments. We actually created a digital platform wherein a lot of do-it-yourself servicing could be done by customers, okay? We have a lot of live services already happening. This is all to do-it-yourself. Customers no longer need to call even a call center or even go to -- all of this is available as the PWS is also on the app. These services are already live and you have a lot of the card engagement products and services which are going to come. So fundamentally, what we're saying, all that we really talked about, if I brought a card, can I enable and control my card? Can I do a lot of self servicing on the card? This is the platform which we've already launched. You've got a significant amount of customers already onboarded onto this platform, okay? And this is another what we call the portfolio management software. This is the third initiative, important initiative, which we talked about. The last initiative, which I'm going to talk about, at least in this thing, there are multiple others, is about is about SmartHub [indiscernible]. This is our merchant-on-an-app platform. Once again, this is a platform which you see, an approach which is now used. And this is what we call SmartHub 2.0, okay? Our earlier version of SmartHub was just an app which enabled QR. So it was like, like we call a point service. We offered a POS machine, we offered QR, we offered an app, okay? Paid-up 2.0 takes on to the platform indication strategy. Fundamentally, talk to 4 pillars embedded in this app. You're talking of all payments in a box, which means all payment forms which a merchant would want to accept payment from that we indicated. Banking in a box used by merchant, he has my accounts, can he avail of inside the same as multiple banking products and services -- banking, liability products and services? That's already bundled in. Lending in a box, which means as a merchant, because of, let's say, funds -- because of the cash flows and the kind of visibility I have to his transactions and the money is coming into his current account, I can preapprove him for multiple types of loans. So one click, he can avail of his preapproved offers inside the same SmartHub app. And of course, value-added services. What do you mean by value-added services? These are services which are not necessarily direct banking services, but these are important productivity tools which help him engage his business. What do I mean? Can I offer him a simple digital cut-out solution, when speaking of a merchant. That's not just electronic transaction but also cash. He has a problem of being able to reconcile all these transactions at the end of the day. Can I offer him, through a partner, at digital [indiscernible], which helps him in one view consolidate all his transactions. Can I offer him the capability to extend his product suite using WhatsApp or Facebook by taking pictures, sending it to you with a payment link, and say, here is a product, tap on it, you can pay remotely. Merchant loyalty solutions. Can I -- within this room of my customers, there are 20 customers who have been loyal to me for the last 3 years. I want to offer them something specific. Can I help him do that? So on and so forth. These are what we call value-added services which help him in business productivity. These 4 are bundled inside the Smart Hub [indiscernible] 2.0. We have the 2.0 actually already live in the marketplace. You may call it a very large EOG. And we've been getting good results. I'll show you in the next slide some of the results which we've already seen in terms of smarter pack. We also have a demo of that, which Anjani will take us through when he goes through a lot of the digital side. So this is what we had. So I've just given you a typical comparison of 1.0 versus the 2.0, which is sort of, like I said, in a EOG kind of base. And we see across key metrics -- typical merchant acquiring metrics, where we've seen a significant lift in the process. The 2.0 is in a soft EOG state because we're testing it out. We're seeing the response of merchants to the kind of features, their adaptation, how we sort of improve on the metrics. But very encouraging results, very -- as you see on SmartHub 2.0, we've already got more than 600,000 merchants already onboarded. A lot of them were 1.0, will be migrated to 2.0 and many of them are new. But we've got wonderful results, which we've sort of shown on that and our idea is to sort of scale it up. Sashi, in the morning, talked about our vision of 20 million merchants. We have close to 3 million acceptance points as we speak today. And over the next 3 years in our journey to the 20 million story, SmartHub, which targets small and micro merchants, which typically use apps will be a very significant driver and contribution to this 20 million merchants. So this is our merchant acceptance platform or merchant acceptance in a box and a solution. So these are some of the results we are talking about. I leave it here at this point in time and stay pause for questions and answers. There are a lot of questions, which also which will come through in the tech and digital and the demos, but I leave it right there. But to summarize it all, fundamentally, what we're saying is, our payment business is about scale. That's point number one. We have scale, and we'll continue building on scale. Our payment business is strategically important for the bank because beyond, like I said, commercial P&L, which it delivers, it brings in new customers. It brings in stickiness of spend. It brings in liability balances. It gives me the core data for me be able to underwrite and, therefore, be able to lend to types of customers, again, cutting across all of that. These are the three core values which we sort of clearly build on. That's also the reason why we see much more value beyond just the P&L into the payment business, and we continue remaining invested. And our aim is to continue to be dominant in this space. So I pause here and then leave it for questions and answers.

Do you think with fintechs ramping up their focus on the acquiring side, this business could start facing some headwinds? And in that context, the new platform that you're launching, SmartHub, we talked about, what kind of tools you are unveiling to sort of maintain your market leadership position? That's one. Second, as you showed the data on the P2M market share side, can you just talk about how does this convert into the lending opportunities and what kind of conversion that you've seen so far?

Okay. So yes, the acceptance base within the payment has become a favorite place for fintechs and nonfinancial players in this space, with the objective of sort of wanting to own the merchant, okay. Our understanding and our take on this space is very simple. Merchants do a particular type of business. And the merchant, that business is reflected in what we call MCs, merchant categories. As an acceptance player, I'm impervious to what kind of business the merchant does. My role as a bank or my role as an acceptance player is to facilitate and help you to either receive payments or make payments, which mean I'll connect you to a network which transfers money from point A to point B. So payments is my business. My business, the bank's core business is also liability. And underlying that payment network is the need to have a liability account or accounts, okay, which is what we call our current account. That's something which I provided because that's my core. When I take these two and then look at the data flow and the value which I drive on to that network and the balances that it build up, I'm clearly able to underwrite you and offer you short-term loans, midterm loans, working capital loans, so on and so forth, et cetera. That, too, is the core business of the bank. And so therefore, what we call our sandwich strategy. Our sandwich strategy approach to merchants is in the heart -- lies in the core of the bank. Which other entities can sort of do that? At best, you can get someone who can do the payment business. And as you know, the payment layer is already a very thin margin business. So does it build for a sustainable, profitable scale P&L? I'm not so sure. But when you look at it all together -- so I'm very clear. My job is to be a full-suite acquirer. My job is to be a full-suite bank, which will offer him the components of the sandwich strategy. My job is to ensure that I become the sole preferred merchant acquirer because I can offer you, example, the smarter type of platform solution which gives you all the capabilities of payments and line, et cetera, and therefore, obviate the need for him to go to multiple service providers. This is the app strategy, the smarter strategy, which targets all the small and medium merchants because where the bulk of the transactions are moving from cash to UPI. And that's where the bulk of the UPI is. UPI is in early stages. In card, we have a 40%, 45% market share. UPI, we've just about started. That's a growing market share. We have close to about 14-, 15-odd percent market share in the P2M space. And we see that growing as our SmartHub strategy sort of keeps on going. And if you see some of the metrics which we continue to want to sort of maintain, we're confident that we will be able to match our UPI P2M market share also, similar to our card platform. Okay. So that is our strategy. And I clearly say that my role as a merchant acquirer, I'm providing the full suite, okay? There will be competition. There's no problem with competition. Competition has actually helped in expanding the merchant acceptance opportunity. And so we welcome competition, but -- and we'll take it on. We've become the market leaders in the card space, notwithstanding the same competition. So we'll take on the competition even in this space. I hope that answers your question.

I just have one question. This is probably a short-term and a regulatory question. So it's not a strategic question as such. But there's a lot of talk on MDR regulation, things come so far. It's been a talk since December. So what is your stance? I mean, do you think MDRs will be regulated or -- because I think some...

So let me say, UPI was regulated sometime back. Debit was regulated sometime back. Credit has not yet been regulated. Will it happen or not, I don't know. I don't know, but it could happen. Having said all of that, I think we've clearly adapted to this intervention -- regulatory intervention and pricing on the debit and the UPI retail space. As I mentioned right at the beginning of my talk, okay? We've got a 2-pronged strategy to this. One is build scale, immense scale, crazy scale. That's the sort of mantra in the payment space. And second is ensure that you're a holistic payment service provider, which means payments, full suite of payments, and also significant benefit if you get to the bank, either by way of liability and assets. Help to ensure that you derisk from 1/3 -- or 1/3 of the business. I talked about the sandwich strategy. If I get my liability and asset strategy right, which rides below and above, then payments can be an entry strategy, even within margins into this business. And that's the way we look at the acceptance business in this also. So MDR is only one part of it. I mean to tell you, if I get a merchant today, you saw some of the metrics in terms of the floats, which my average merchant give me, if I take a merchant today, give them a holistic payment solution, get his liability and current accounts with the kind of float that's ideal, the average growth is ideal. And I do a semblance of lending on that. That ecosystem is profitable to me from day one, okay? And that helps me derisk on a larger basis, on a full-portfolio basis from any shocks which we will get on to the MDR fee income. So I think, will it happen? I don't know. I don't know. Are we ready? Are we prepared in terms of our strategy in case some of these headwinds will happen, the answer is yes.

Simple question, in the sense that you have such a large market share on both the acceptance side as well as on the acquiring side, what ails the bank from providing a full-fledged mobile-based solution in the market? You've seen customers move on to the QR side quite easily using the mobile. Whereas cards have still struggled on the mobile side. What ails a full-fledged digital experience that can be given to the customer?

Okay. So simple question, simple answer. PayZapp and Turbo when you put it together and when I bundle that with our mobile banking option, which also Anjani will take you through, will provide that mobile ecosystem, wherein you can seamlessly use either UPIs or cards, credit or debit or prepaid, et cetera. as a simple one tap or QR-based or in-app payment solution. These are the three solutions which we sort of have to address the need, which you talked about. I hope that's it?

And on the ecosystem on the acceptance -- acceptance side also is quite easy. You can run on the UPI, QR code platform?

Yes. So SmartHub is interoperable. It's completely interoperable, okay? It accepts all card payments through what we call the [ the estimate ]. When it enables remote payments, it accepts UPIs interoperable. It accepts all wallets UPI. It can be used on any QR deployed in the marketplace, not just the bank's QR, okay? So it's a completely interoperable solution. And that's the reason why we say it can actually replace the multiple QRs which today retailers -- when you walk into a small retailer, you'll actually see 4 or 5 different QRs. The point is that SmartHub can be used on any of the QRs and, therefore, it actually doesn't require 5, 6 different apps to use, okay? So in that sense, that's what I mean by saying it's a complete merchant acceptance, mobile platform to accept any form of payment. And that's been the design. That's been the full design for a long time. Because I'm an acquirer. I'm agnostic to any payment form which the merchant wants to accept payment from.

And it works on other networks, in the sense that [indiscernible].

Yes, yes, completely interoperable. Yes, yes, absolutely. Interoperable in all forms, in all forms.

Yes. Just one question. At the UPI beneficiary side, our market share is lower than other peer bank, on the private bank. Below ICICI Bank, Axis Bank. So what is the strategy? What is the plan that we have on the UPI beneficiary side?

You're talking of the P2P?

Yes. So our market -- your share is below key large banks. And it has been the case like for a pretty long time, though we have a quite large customer base. So why that we are not able to -- we aren't able to engage with them?

So one, as you know, the entire P2P space, it's -- there's no revenue, there's no product, but you need to offer P2P as a payment form, legitimate payment form because that's a very strong accepted form, okay? Having said that, our Board strategy going forward to gain our share. I talked to you about our strategy to gain share in the P2M space, which is part. In the P2P space, one of the biggest missing links in PayZapp 1.0 was UPI. [ It took off a lot, ] but we didn't sort of include it in that, okay? And PayZapp 2.0 will have UPI as the foremost and actually the primary payment option in that space. PayZapp is primarily a payment app. It's a payment app, which will enables B2M and P2P, okay? And so PayZapp will be at the fulcrum of our large drive into increasing our P2P. In fact, PayZapp will have its own UPI handle. We clearly generated. Our plans on PayZapp will be multiple fold of what we already have in PayZapp 1. And we do believe that close to about 50% to 60% of the payments throughput -- through PayZapp 2.0 will actually be on UPI, and therefore, that's one key driver of strategy -- of increasing our P2P market share in that space, okay? The second is obviously in our new mobile banking, right, which we are in the process of locking once again. The user experience of using P2P once again, which has the -- most simplest, et cetera, is once again one of the key features in the new mobile app, okay? And that, too, will be a large driver of P2P. So both PayZapp and the new mobile banking app, put together, will be our answer to the P2P focus on building this thing. On P2P, already talked about our increase in market share which will be driven -- a lot by our SmartHub. Thank you very much. Of course, if there are any questions, we can take offline. I think we need to move to the next session, which is the digital and the technology session. Should we start off this thing? I'll just kick off the first two slides and then sort of then hand it over to Ramesh and Anjani, okay, who will also take you through a larger digital and technology strategy. And of course take you through some of the actual demos, which I talked about even in my presentation, okay?

Yes. It's a 6-point agenda, which we wanted to sort of take you through, okay. This slide fundamentally talks about two key things. In that -- is that digital -- the way we looked at digital. Actually, digital or digitization or digitalization journey for the bank actually started more than 10 years back. And if you see the domains mentioned, whether it's card payment, we talked about the API parts here, you're talking of the credit, debit card transactions here, you're talking about the mobile transactions, talking of corporate banking, customer's old transaction digital, which we're doing. A lot of these were what we call a the hub of digitization, et cetera, or straight through processing, as we call. All of this leads to one key thing is actually screaming about scale. Scale is one very large -- when it comes to a lot of the digital transactions, which we're talking about. At an aggregate level, today, 93% of the banking transactions, which as a bank, which we do across businesses, are actually digital. And I've given you a flavor of some of the domains where and the numbers which we're really sort of talking about. But what does it mean, behind us going beyond the numbers? It actually means that to sustain and drive these transactions on a minute-by-minute, day-by-day, week-by-week basis, you've actually got to build an extremely strong and powerful, sustainable, scalable resilient, fail-free digital infrastructure, electronic infrastructure at the bottom end, et cetera. But scale is one of the key things. And that's the differentiator in the bank transformation journey, okay, is that I don't have the luxury of starting from zero or zero ground, okay? We've got a thriving, very significantly large business. The previous presentation talked about us doing anywhere between a 30% to 50% market share of a particular domain, okay? We have similar kind of market shares across all the areas where we do a lot of the digital transaction, even if you talk in terms of corporate banking. But that's the scale of transactions which will drive all of these scales. All of these transactions are digital and built-in under that is the entire interface and form which we sort of built. But this is just to give you a flavor of the size and scale of our digital and technology infrastructure management, which we sort of built. And therein lies our transformation strategy. Another area which we talked about, where we're talking, here, we are talking about digitally sourced retail assets and liabilities. This is all about new acquisition. The previous was about stock business happening, transactions happening on a day-to-day basis. This is about the kind of new acquisition which we do. We've just given you some percentage numbers, which means the percentages are a percentage of the total business of that particular domain being done, basically starting in from personal loans, debit and credit cards. And on the liability side, we have a significant amount of share. And you'll see various, various different percentages of digital happening. But once again, as you know the scale which we operate in across all of these businesses, even 67% on a savings account, that means that much kind of scale, which we drive through our digital infrastructure. Once again, as I said, this is very key. Therefore, what clearly differentiates us is our digital and technology transformation is about working on a scale, global scale. We talked about scale being important in the payment business. In as much so it's a challenge to the digital transformation is that, when you have already scale, it brings a different kind of flavor to the kind of point solutions that you build. It brings a different kind of flavor to the infrastructure which you build, which helps you continue being a market leader over the next 5 to 10 years. It brings a completely different flavor to the kind of technical expertise, it brings a different flavor to the kind of vendors and partners that you need to operate with. It needs to -- it brings a completely different flavor to the kind of robustness and scalability of solutions, which you sort of build into your technology and digital, which is of a completely different nature. And so that's the point I wanted to make about scale. The second point is, once again, extremely important. You would have heard of this assisted, unassisted in urban, rural in some other presentations. But what do you mean by that? You and me are urban customers, metro customers. We are -- maybe are equal and sitting in a top 50 or top 100 towns, et cetera. What's the nature -- or the difference in the nature of digital transactions that I do? We are used to a lot of unassisted, and we would love to do everything on my app. Okay, but that's not India. A larger portion of India needs what we call assisted digital journey. And therefore, it means -- and once again, when I clump this assisted and unassisted along with this talk about scale, you're really talking about global scale point digital solutions, which help you do unassisted. On one side, you also need global scale, the thing to help you do assisted kind of journey. That brings a different type of complexity in the kind of build and the user journeys and the customer interfaces that you want to sort of build. The reason why I'm mentioning for you is you need to -- that I'm trying to paint a backdrop as to what our digital transformation and our technology objectives which we set out for ourselves, on what dimensions are sort of building up. The first two also bring a significant amount of what you may call environmental and operational risk on which your networks are exposed. Five years back, the dimensions of risk -- and operational risk and fraud risk and security risks were sort of limited. They have multiplied over the last 2 to 3 -- 2 to 4 years in terms of multiple different kinds of cyber attacks, cyber fraud, multiple different types of human frauds, multiple different types of operational risk, IT tech glitch risk so on and so forth, et cetera. And so therefore, the kind of technology that you build in, the kind of partners that you do, the kind of monitoring networks and system solutions that you build become extremely distinct. Just to give you an example of the kind of scale if, as a bank, we do 4 crores UPI transactions a day, you need a significantly large proactive fraud network to be able to monitor those 4 crores transactions which happen in a day, the capability to flag off red flag a lot of these core transactions and figure out what's going to happen, block them, intimate the customers, so on and so forth. I'll just give you one dimension of the nature of risk of when all of these pyramids sort of come together, okay, and do it. The reason, like I said, is to paint a backdrop of the task which we get and the kind of strategy which we built around transformation around the background in which -- the way we work. But -- and within all of this, 93% of the bank transactions are already processed digitally. So we've built a very strong interface. Anjani and Ramesh and team have actually built and run this interface, and then also take you through our core strategy of how we're going to build up whether -- the motto or the objective is to see that at current scale, what's the kind of transformation that we're driving and how do we prepare ourselves over the next 5 to 10 years with tech and digital infrastructure, which is up to there, where we'll even build much more scale on top of it. At the same time, ensure that customer experience and customer delight is one of the key drivers of our strategy, and at the same time, the last pillar of ensuring that we are a bank, safe secure transactions under the ambit security has sort of taken care. I'll hand it over to Ramesh right now, who will take it on from here. Ramesh?

I think now comes the key role from a tech perspective because, obviously, this is one of the center stage, right? I mean everybody wants to know what's the HDFC Bank technology strategy most discussed, debated. So obviously, what we wanted to first give you a little flavor is what is the back-end looking. This slide is actually talking about what's the kind of volumes that we look at. Lot of times, we talk about big tech, fintechs. Banks have not been there. That's the reality, right? We cannot get away from there because banks are built on legacy platforms. Suddenly, it was transformed and the shift happened over the last 3 to 4 years. So it's very imperative that the technology becomes center stage, and it's a very transformational technology that has come. But just to give you a little flavor, we just see the kind of volume, the 7x growth on UPI switch, there's a 3x growth on core banking, about 444 crore transactions on ATM switch. These are absolutely mind boggling. These are like Google site numbers, right? It's nothing less than that. And you see the trend of the volumes, they're absolutely going crazy. Similarly, if you look at it, how we are tackling, we would do about 1,400 APIs across the banking ecosystem. We do about 70% published partner APIs. This is very, very telling slide. 90,000 concurrencies. There are times when you can get up at 3:00 and you would find thousands of net banking users. That is the reality. That's the scale at which we are operating. So obviously, the transition is not easy. When you start something new, it's easy. You start, you day zero build cloud-native container, straight away get into Kubernetes, bang on, right? Here, it's a very different challenge. You have to first take off all your legacy. You have to put a bridge to the new technology and then kind of ensure there's a migration. And that's why this is far more complex than what we deem to do. A lot of times, we don't see this coming to the front. So I just wanted to give you a little sense of how this back end looks like. Now how do we do this transformation? When you're looking at the whole digital banking, how does the shifts come through, right? I think the key is, at the end of the day, they differentiated customer experience. Clearly, design frictionless journeys. This is a very easily -- I mean I can -- but anyway, I think the frictionless aspect is very critical. I don't know how many of you go through journeys when you open an account or you go through an acquisition journey. A lot of times you'll find the third-party API ecosystem, for example, not coming through. Let's say, you connect to a multi-bureau, you don't get the response. You go to an Aadhaar, you don't get the response. You have to predict. When you say frictionless, can I expect it in a fixed basis. So when I come to the fourth screen, I'm already ready. So I already sent the API, waited for it. By the time the customer comes in, I'm already ready because it might take a little bit of a latency. Or can I take the maximum number of data entry points on my first 2 screens in a way that the customer doesn't feel inconvenience. So it's a frictionless journey and the customer experience is very critical. Of course, the second thing is digitizing of branches. Sashi spoke about in morning, 1,500 branches. We are going to look at it in a very different sense. The way we look at branches -- digital branches, the world has changed. You don't need an MPLS network, you don't need a kind of wire going and following. Those are old days. You don't need a switch and a router to put a patch. You just need one new-age client that can just go on to cloud [indiscernible]? That's how we look at our digital banking. That's what we would push more and more as we go along. In fact, the new set of branches, you will not see digitization in the classical. That's why talking about how we are thinking the shift in the technology, the fundamental principles are changing. Create new customer reflection. That's a simple one. The rapid innovation, we have to innovate. This has been a very, very quickly a key aspect. The second aspect, I just want to touch, plug-and-play integration with new-age fintech. Today, every fintech wants to integrate in our ecosystem. Nobody wants to wait for 2, 3 days -- or 2, 3 weeks to integrate. This is again difficult because the banking ecosystem is very different. Just to give you a background. A savings account API can have 10 different flavors because there could be a proprietary flag, there could be a kind of a joint account flag. And a lot of those things -- kind of things have to be still accounted for. So it's not easy in that sense. That's why the kind of API gateway you put in the front, the kind of rest API catalog you can put has to be very different actually. Then of course, data and platform. Data is very critical. In fact, the bank is clearly moving towards a cloud-enabled data. And I'll talk about that. We are kind of moving towards that and data lakes. And the reason we are doing this, we believe that the centralized data warehouse days are gone. Today, every data point has to be API financially. So when you run an acquisition API, the data has to follow as an API because that gives the decision point. The AI and ML capabilities that we talked about cannot go back in it. You can't run data center and give a takeout analysis at the back end. You want that analysis to go right different place. It's been a very different kind of a data lake architecture, so we'll talk through that. Then, of course, a lot of stuff focused on resilient and secure systems, zero trust, very interesting players happening. A lot of times people are asking, is it secured to go on cloud? I mean the paradigm has changed. If you see just a few years back, the questions, are you secured by going to cloud. Why? Because today, the cloud security providers have shifted this skill. In fact, the bank just put up on the fastest landing tool. Just to give you a background. Today, we are connected to Google, AWS and to Microsoft. And we have only few banks which have all 3 linkages as hybrid cloud, actually, and it's completely containerized. It's a very new concept called landing zone. The ingress and the egress is completely controlled by the bank, and we encrypt the data in the cloud using our own key sets on our own premises. Very interesting construct, very few industry leaders globally have done that. So we give the choice. What does it do? It gives the choice to the vendor partner also our technology players to develop on any cloud. But at the same time, we're very secure about it. So this kind of paradigm shifts are happening from a security angle. So clearly, that's what we include. And the last point is also very critical. We have to look at new talent. Tech talent today, banks were largely tech enablers, and you would agree with that. We were buying products, and we're trying to make them -- those days are gone. You need people who can design cloud architecture, need people who can code, who can kind of architect. And that's why this talent is very different. And we'll talk about we're doing some very interesting stuff. As we go to the next slide I will cover that. So then there's a complete shift in the way we think our strategic pillars are coming. So we see from differentiated customer experience, innovation at scale, data and platform orchestration to resilient systems to talent. So if you look at all of these pillars, we have to put the strategy accordingly to this for the digital transformation. And I'll cover that as to what we are doing there. So what are we doing here? Like I spoke about. Clearly, on the strengthening tech foundation, I spoke about this cloudification journey. We are -- actually it's a very interesting concept that I spoke about. We've also built in a very interesting API gateway. The Google APJ is a company that Google bought over a few years back, and we have front ended with them on the APJ gateway. But all our APIs are published through them on the front end. On the infrastructure security, we have started moving our data centers from on-prem to cloud, but we're also modernizing our existing data centers. We have just put in a very interesting AIML bid security. All our security locks today go into an AIML-based cloud service provider for security, very interesting product. And most of the patent detections happens on -- basically on AIML based. We've done a lot of work on resiliency in terms of disaster recovery. This is the last piece. I think the -- while we do the first three, the banking architecture is still an active/passive architecture. What does it mean? See, banks have been built over monolithic databases. You can write in one place, you can copy and take it to another place, but you cannot run that place. You cannot keep that active. That's for the banking technology. So if you look at Oracle, SQL, your PostgreSQL, some of the databases are all what is called active/passive. World is moving to active/active design. So if you look at the new-age database providers you go by the cost of the standards, they're changing the paradigm. What does it mean? It means I can run a core banking instance in Mumbai and I can run a core banking instance in Bangalore, and both can be right. It's a very fundamental shift from a technology perspective. That's where we are now moving towards. And I'll talk about what we are doing. So this is the way we are thinking from an infrastructure perspective. While we do all of this, tech for tech is critical. We have to utilize banks. Like I said, variability of just putting tech together doesn't work any longer. If you have to compete with the fintech, you have to compete with the big tech, you need your own tech thought process. So that's why we are focusing, for example -- clearly, a lot of focus on testing automation, a lot of focus on unified service management platform, low code, no code. In fact, we are completely revamping a lot of internal bank applications. We are saying, why should even you do coding on Internet. Today, Power Apps, ServiceNow, all of this available. So our own technology units, adoption of -- using technology is going to be very, very significant. And some of this, we already started shifting it. So we did a very interesting stuff for bringing a power automatized platform and a ServiceNow platform, which is used for all our internal applications for rapid development rather than kind of going back to the base code. So this is how we are looking at core technology transformation. Now that still doesn't follow. This is actually a Holy Grail of the technology. I call this Holy Grail because a lot of banks are not attempting this, including us. This is the most difficult part right here. What we are saying is that can you really rearchitect core technology? What does it mean? Like I spoke about it, this is a big thing. Can you change core banking, right? Can you change core banking? We know core banking is 35-year-old, 40-year-old. That's the reality. Most of them are what is called either a Java-based and monolithic RDL-based architecture. This is not easy. So what we are trying to do here is we work on a concept called [indiscernible] under a program called Enterprise Factory. It's a very interesting program. We are moving to largely a cloud-based database. In fact, we are working there with a couple of value startups. Most of them are kind of cloud-ready databases coming with even driven kind of architecture, and we'll talk about that a little bit more. And what we intend to do is we cannot just take out the existing core and say, oh, we'll put a new code. It's a 4-year project if you do something like that because of the data migration takes a lot of time. What we are trying to do is start following. So one by one start pulling. Payments, for example, today, if payments can run from two different locations. Just imagine the resiliency factor goes in a very different direction. In fact, that's the first thing we are bringing. Also from our core, we'll actually be pulling out payments, and we're writing them onto new-edge databases. So working with a very interesting start-up in India. And we are looking with a couple of value technology providers to do this. So it's a very significantly different strategy. Then we look at customer master. One of the biggest problems in the core banking is aggressive and customer master life differently. Credit card has its own database. Retail assets, has its own database. Liability has its own customer record. It's a mess. So we are actually pulling it out and making it a tokenized, centralized customer master. So there's another very interesting project that we started. Again, part of the same start-up project that we started, doing complete redesign of the workflow. A teller journey at the branch, an accounting journey at the operations, all of that we are changing. That is the Phase 3. So we're going to follow every 12 -- in fact, each of these programs are 12 months, 15 months, 21 months kind of a program in parallel, actually. And we are following the core. It's a very, very ambitious, very different program from any of the large banks. Some banks are doing it, but we are probably only the bank in India to start this initiative. And then, of course, the other part is writing our own mobile app. Like you said, the future of the technology will be part on mobile areas. That is the reality. So PayZapp is payment strategy, but that doesn't mean a thing. And a lot of people have said Super App. And I'm kind of consciously trying to bring this concept. We believe we need a little distributed architecture. We need the PayZapp, that's a lot of payment functionality, but we'll need our own mobile app. And the way we are looking at our mobile is completely rearchitecting. We're actually again, building it in partnership with people like Google, actually. And we will talk about it. It's a lot of work that's happening and the kind of language that's going behind the mobile, the kind of front-end interfaces we built. And why is it important? See, today, a mobile release cannot be a 3-month release. Today, unfortunately that's the reality. We have to take 3 to 4 months to do one release on mobile. We're not able to take a turn on a back end and say, okay, let the functionality go up. That is the kind of platform technology that is shifting. Our mobile rewrite program has started. We do this sort of, again, a factory in Bangalore with a very different stress -- set of talent, actually. We don't -- it's more people who kind of come from the tech industry. They started building this out. So these 2 programs are very, very ambitious tech transformation programs. And centrally, they'll allow us to own the mobile asset platform and also own the core assets. And here, we will actually own the IP. That's the fundamental difference. So now if you see your applied tech strategy, and this is a very important slide. See we don't have one-fit-all strategy from a digital segmentation perspective. And what does it mean by that? So the way we are thinking is each of the segments, if you see each of the bank segments, we are seeing day-to-day bank -- in retail, the whole thought process or the focus is that we will simplify customer journey. We'll bring deep insight through -- data through amplification in AIML. We want to like process focus on assisted and unassisted. We don't want to leave unassisted because a large part of India needs unassisted. It could even be vernacular journey. I mean non-English journey, but you have to go there, actually. We can't just be away from that. Then unified, you just spoke about -- somebody spoke about unified experience on UPIs, right? That was the point that was clarified, both for debit and for the UPI. And then, of course, enhancing customer experience, the kind of UI/UX report. It's a very -- modern fintech, UI/UX assets is very different. So you will see our new set of assets coming with a very different UX experiences, especially on the retail side, because it's largely kind of catering to the youth, the millennials and to different kind of user. On the MSME, we are largely looking at getting to leverage the supply. This is very critical. What do I mean by leveraging supply chains? In fact, we just launched a CUG campaign for a program called DukandaZamaka. I don't know if Rahul covered it, where we are actually going back to this manufacturing supply chain. The FMCG guys picking the data from this, and then cross-selling the working capital loans. It's a very interesting digital journey. You prequalify, but the prequalification is coming through the supply chain data from the FMCG side, not from a self-generated. And it's a completely online. You could open a complete current account-based loan, end-to-end digital. That's something that we are doing on that. So like I said, very critical to leverage -- I mean, a lot of FMCGs have their own apps, their own ERPs. How do we mix up the data and use that data to do online acquisitions. That's where we are going on the MSME side. Native journey, local markets. A lot of this would not be English-driven. We are to understand that because the Dukat, the rural level doesn't understand an English journey. So that's another area that we are very, very focused. You'll see a lot of multilingual applications start coming through. 360-degree of proprietary and retail, the intersection between proprietary and retail. Again, demand is small. Retailer or a merchant in the rural area doesn't differentiate in MSME and the retail account. We need one view. So we see a lot of infrastructure, a lot of our assets. We are part -- a good example, like Parag spoke about, strategy merchant account. In fact, Phase 3 has even merchants' personal accounts coming through in the same intersection. Because that intersection is happening. People are not wanting to go to multiple platforms. Corporate, a lot of focus on deepening the ERP embedding. You know that today's banking as a service, a lot of APIs are being published on the payment gateway, whether it is corporate transfer APIs, whether it is FX confirmations and so on and so forth. Digitizing trade is a Holy Grail. I think, there's a lot of work. In fact, we are completely revamping our trade platform. A lot of, again, image reading capability. Can you retrade documents on the -- again, working with Google to re-architect this very interesting project. The entire trade flow has been disruptive and completely digitized where, again, a lot of ability to integrate open credit markets in the corporate area. Another interesting -- a lot of alternate credit rating agencies, research publications, they're coming in line actually. And we see a lot of digitization happening in those places. Where we are clearly going deeper customer analytics, self-service capability. Wealth has been largely relationship-based. So what we are doing, launching a new app. In fact, it's been largely analytics driven now and self-service, because a lot of wealth requirements today are on deep cut, and nobody wants to look at it and extend, yada, yada. You really want to cut the data on your own and build up your portfolio on a daily basis, right? So why can't your apps be able to provide that kind of an analytics? Why should it be clicked, let the customer cut and slice and dice his data then. So that's why we are going on the wealth side. Of course, enhancement are [ incapable ] data analytics. RMs need to be themselves empowered. It's not just self-service, the RMs have to be empowered. So we're going to relaunch a complete wealth app in the next couple of months, and we'll kind of talk about it. But clearly, that's another thing on the anvil. And of course, the rural and government initiatives. Really, it's a very, very important part, fueling the Bharat growth story. Focus on assisted journey, multilingual capabilities and deepening of digital distribution, we see every business correspondent. Imagine if I can put 3 PCs to do a digital branch, we can use the same concept to digitize a branch correspondent or a banking correspondent, right? if you can just take a PC, make it secure, plug it into the cloud, enable it with the proxy and connect to the banking system, every BC point can be a branch. So that's how we are going about on the rural and government banking initiative. So clearly, a lot of segmented reimagination. It's not one fit all kind of a strategy that we're trying to go to. So this is where I will stop, and I will let Anjani comment because my partner of crime -- then she will kind of take you through this slide and then a couple of demos from here on.

Thank you, Ramesh. We have a series of initiatives in digital and technology, which is going to see the light of day over the next 4 quarters. As Parag mentioned earlier, our landscape is complex. We do technology at scale. And what Ramesh mentioned that we are building infrastructure to handle that kind of technology. So I'm going to share with you some of the examples of customer experience that we are creating with this kind of infrastructure and scale on which we are working. Arvind in the first half of the day, mentioned about Xpress Car Loans. Xpress Car Loans is a good example of a journey from where we have removed friction. And what do we mean by that? I just wanted to share with you. How many of the people here have actually bought from IKEA furniture? You ordered IKEA at home? Great. So I ordered a table from IKEA. It came and I had to assemble it myself. My wife would not do that. She wants to go and see a table and pick it up. And that's what Parag mentioned. We have to take care of both assisted and unassisted. There are people in this country who would like to undertake the full journey themselves. And there are some people who would still need help. So all the journeys that we are building and some of the examples that I'm going to share with you works on both modes, assisted as well as unassisted. So this is an example of Xpress Car Loan. How will a customer find out how to take car loan from HDFC Bank? There are multiple ways to do that. And I just want to share a couple of ways here. So you could go on to Google and type car loans, you will get a lot of examples over there, car loans from bank A, from bank B, from bank C. And one of the ways is that you will go through -- maybe you'll see a loan application there from HDFC Bank. You'll say, apply for loans and you reach a form. It's on your mobile phone, an Xpress Car Loan form. So I give my mobile number here and give my date of birth, you verify with an OTP. This is what I'm doing. And all of a sudden, I see 5 steps appearing in front of me. It says personal and employment details, please share that, receive in principal loan approval based on this. Add car and dealer details, what car you want to buy and from which dealer, you complete your KYC and complete your application process. It's as simple as that. So I as a customer who is used to buying IKEA furniture, I start the journey myself. I fill up my details. I'm a salaried employee working with a company as a senior manager. I've been working for 5 years, 3 months. I'm an IT developer, I get about INR 50,000 monthly income. And I have an existing EMI also of INR 20,000. I fill this detail and submit it. And do a continue here, and this is where magic happens. This is a in principal loan approval that appears on your mobile device. A lot of back-end work has gone in. You've heard of 10 seconds loan, which was meant for a bank customer. This is meant for a bank customer as well as a nonbank customer. So there could be somebody who is coming from outside, who's not been with HDFC Bank, and that person is going to see this experience as well. Then you add the car details. I'm going to buy a certain make car. I give my make as well as my dealer details and continue. And then I reached this place where it says "Do a KYC." Because I don't, I'm not an HDFC bank customer, so I have to do a KYC. How do I do a KYC? Now government has made it easy. There is a video KYC option, which is available. So I will continue with KYC through a video KYC, which takes about 2 to 3 minutes. There is a bank officer who will appear on the other side on a mobile phone. You need a PAN, a white paper, so that you can sign and show your signature. These things, once they are ready, I'll start and do a KYC with a bank officer. They'll ask a few questions, look at my Aadhaar et cetera. And then I set up a EMI mandate. Because if you take a loan, I also have to receive a loan in a certain account. And there, I give my account details, which could be with either I have an HDFC Bank account or I will have another bank account, which I can give the details for here. And once I give the details of this bank account, I get a loan immediately, which is available here for me. So this is the entire journey of taking a car loan. This takes about 30 minutes. Just imagine how a customer is going to feel. I walk into a dealership anywhere in the country. I choose a car of my choice. And when I need a loan for that car, today, you would see that in a dealership at the corner, there is a table, there are 4, 5 tables, a lot of bankers and NBFCs sitting there to offer loans. That is not needed anymore. We can have a QR code in every dealership in the country. You can just scan that QR code, this application appears and a car loan can be taken in a matter of a few minutes directly by any citizen in this country. So that's the kind of experience that has been created. We have removed a lot of friction. Friction on underwriting, friction on doing a KYC, those have been taken care of. Now imagine this kind of an experience, if this is extended, this is just one journey that we saw here, but this experience can be expanded across all the acquisition journeys of the bank. This was taking a car loan, but there are multiple products available. So what we are doing now is taking every journey in the bank and automating it and digitizing it in the same manner so that a person can take it on their own or you can take it in an assisted manner. And this is where we partnered with a company called Adobe that has created this platform called forms for building these applications. And on this particular form, we've already automated about 8 onboarding journeys, which are already live. And we are going to add another 20-plus journeys there over the course of next few quarters. So that's how we are going. And I want to show you one example of how Adobe, which is a platform which even nudges you. What is the difference? Why is it that we've chosen as HDFC Bank Adobe? Because this is a low-code platform. It does not require so much of code writing to create this experience that you saw just now. It can be done in a little easier manner. It can be done by marketing people themselves who want to optimize the journey. If I want to run a journey during Christmas, it becomes red with a Santa Claus branded complete journey over there. If I want to run during Diwali, I can just customize that same journey and run it during Diwali season as well. Now all this customizations can be done by marketing staff also, but the journey requires a little bit of technical acumen. It will need some APIs to come in. Once that is ready, it becomes a good platform for building all future journeys for the bank, and that is why we chose it. The other important thing is that in any digital journey, the conversion factor is very important. 100 people start the journey, but do all 100 people take that product? Answer is no. This varies from 2% to 7%. In a very good journey, 7% people will convert. And in a poor journey, it could be 2%. Now this is where Adobe comes into play. It gives you the visibility across the channel, across the funnel, how many people dropped out at Stage 1? How many went to Stage 2 and dropped off? How many went to Stage 3 and dropped off? And all these people can be remarketed for some people who actually did an underwriting got an offer, but did not complete the journey, we can just send out a campaign automatically on their WhatsApp or SMS, saying, "Hey, you didn't complete the journey. Click here to start." And when a customer clicks there, you start from where you left. So these are the kind of capabilities that have been built in Adobe as a platform, and that's where we are building some of these new journeys. Just to show you as an example here, in Adobe. This is an example of taking a personal loan. I'm a customer of the bank, but I don't have a liabilities account. Instead, I have a card from the bank, and how do I take a personal loan from the bank here? I go and fill up my mobile number, I give my date of birth, I enter my OTP here, which comes in, and this is all on mobile phone happening as we go. I choose the loan amount, I choose the tenure, let's say 24 months. This is the amount of loan that I will get net of disbursal. You see here, was I assisted by a bank employee? So if I go into a bank branch and somebody is helping me, this will be set to yes, and there will be a code which will appear here for the bank employee. If I'm doing it myself, I'm an IKEA guy, I want -- I take pride in doing things myself. Then I can just go to the website and take this entire journey myself. I didn't do anything so far. So you see here it says, "Be assured you are getting the lowest EMI on your personal loan." The system knows that I'm hesitating in moving forward, so it nudges me to tell me what to do going ahead. So here then, I take this nudge and continue. I go down, I proceed. When I'm taking the loan, this is also an opportunity to protect. So it says that, "Do you want to insure?" I see protect my loan, I see 2 options here from HDFC Ergo and HDFC Life. I take these 2 options here. I put a nominee name. I agreed to terms and conditions and proceed with the insurance. So I get to see here the total loan amount, what is the interest rate, how much is the deduction. Everything is available here transparently. And then I say we need a bank account to give you this loan. And I'm not -- I told you earlier that I don't have an HDFC bank account as a customer. So I'm giving my bank account details here so that the money from this transaction will come here and then I proceed. When I proceed, it just test that my bank account details are correct or not, I give my e-mail details and all here, and then I apply for a loan. So this is the full term sheet in front of me. It says, what is the amount that I want to take, and this is all happening on a mobile phone. Then I have to give 2 mandates here. One is to give a security mandate so that we understand that you are taking a loan of so much amount from the bank. This security mandate is given in the following manner. The details comes here, which says that you're taking 2 lakh loan. I agree to the terms and conditions. And then I also give a NACH mandate for debiting my account every month with the EMI. So with that, I proceed and then I authenticate myself with an OTP, and this amount will be credited to my account. This is how easy it is to take a loan. I gave another bank account and the money moved there, right then and there while I was doing this transaction. So these are the kind of journeys that we are creating where it becomes frictionless. And even when you approach a bank officer in a bank branch or in the field, the bank officer then also take us through the same journey on their mobile phone and just say that I have been assisted by somebody here. What is the impact? Once we've started showing these kind of journeys in the market to our customers, this is the kind of impact that we are seeing. When we switched on savings account, which what we call as Insta Savings journey, we started seeing that the acquisition, which was happening digitally has gone up 4x. The digital acquisition increases significantly with this kind of a journey, which we just saw here. Likewise, in personal loan and credit cards, we've just switched it on a few weeks ago, and we are seeing good encouraging results here as well. So the way we progress slowly from here on and automating the next set of 20, 25 journeys, this is the kind of impact that we expect to see going forward. Parag spoke about PayZapp. And this is a platform which is we are refreshing right now. Just wanted to share with you a few of the experiences on this platform, what are we doing, and how are we engaging with our customer. This is a platform that will help us acquire new customers. It will engage with those customers, and it also helps us monetize and upsell for future. So what is the kind of experience that we are looking at? I am a person in India who downloads PayZapp as an app. What is the experience that I'm going to see here? So the journey will start something like this. When we download an app, we will see that it is an umbrella payments app, it gives us smart statements, and it also provides rewards for us as a customer. So let's get started. I'm going to give my mobile number here. This is a dual SIM phone that I'm using, so I'm going to agree to terms and conditions and proceed. It says PayZapp wants to send me messages, I allow that. I have 2 SIMs Airtel and Jio, I have choose the Airtel SIM. And the moment I give my mobile number and allow this to happen, it says, "Hi, Sridhar, nice to meet you." It recognizes me because I'm a bank customer here. I could have been a nonbank customer also, I will take you through that journey. So the moment it recognizes me, it shows me my ATM card and ask me to fill the last 4-digit of the card details here, which I am going to fill in. The moment I give the last 4-digit and verify my account, it is checking at the back end, how many cards do I have. Here comes the cards, I have 3 cards from HDFC Bank. One is a RuPay, the other 1 is Visa, then another 1 is Visa here, on debit card, credit card. But I'm a customer who also has a non-HDFC Bank account. In that case, what do I do on PayZapp? I go and add another card here. I'll give my card details here from the other banks that I'm having and proceed. Oh, it's for PNB card here. So it appears here, I give my OTP details, which comes. And there you see my PNB card is also added on PayZapp. So that's the simple experience of adding multiple cards and accounts also can be added here. I can add my bank account. Any of the banks available in the country where I have my account can be added. Here, I'm going to add an HDFC Bank account. This is the bank account, which I'm adding. I get a PayZapp prepaid card along with it, which comes in for me. And this, I set with my log-in and lock screen. Here is my PayZapp, which is set up. So that was the initial setup that you saw just now. Now I can do send money, I can make bill payments, I get a smart passbook and I can do many things with my account here. Not just that, going forward, I'll see a lot of my offers as well available in the shop section. But I'll just show you an experience. If I go to a shop where I want to pay with PayZapp, I've linked my card, so it's a wallet account. All the cards from my wallet have now gone into PayZapp, including my PNB card as well, which I don't need to carry any more physically. So I go here, and I'm at a shop where I want to pay. I scan the QR code, which is available at that shop, it says how much is the amount? Let's put INR 500. I want to pay using my account, because I have added a lot of cards there. So I want to pay using my account. I choose my account here from HDFC Bank and click, pay. I give my pin. And that is there. The processing is happening. I paid to Apni Kirana for INR 500. Now all these transactions, I can go home, I can view balances going forward. So my balance in this account is INR 300,200. It's available here. And likewise, I can do multiple transactions going forward. I just want to show you. So this was the ETB user onboarding and how a transaction is going to happen. Let's see one of the payments here, which is very important. I want to pay to one of my contacts. I go here, it says, "Send money." I type the name of my friend whom I want to send money, it's Nirmal. I type the amount that I want to pay and give my PIN. So this is paid to Nirmal and Nirmal is not a part of PayZapp today. Nirmal could be with PhonePe, with Google Pay, could be with any other payments app, I'll be able to transfer money. But remember, how did I know that Nirmal was with another app? Because Nirmal was identified by a mobile number in something called a mapper today. So UPI is introducing the concept of mapper where you are identified by your mobile number. And if I put my mobile number on a particular PSP app, that money will come to me on that particular PSP app. So this is what I want to do on PayZapp also. I want to say that create my mobile number, which is this number on PayZapp. Now my UPI number is going into the mapper as mobile number at PayZapp. This is my handle. Now anybody tells me mobile number, anybody wants to send any money using my mobile number from Google Pay, PhonePe, Paytm, anywhere, it will land up in my PayZapp wallet here. So that's the kind of experience that we are creating on PayZapp. We'll see one experience of how to buy from PayZapp using an app experience or just -- I go and shop. I go Red Bus, which is one of the shops available on PayZapp. I choose from where do I want to go. I want to go from Chennai to Bangalore on 14th of May. These are the options which are available. I choose the option which I like. Here, I get an option of pay with net banking, credit card, it's available with PayZapp as well. INR 840, I have to pay, I do a pay now. And here, it is available. The INR 840, I can pay using any of these devices. Look at the experience here. I want to pay, you swipe to pay. I just swipe the account on PayZapp and this is completely done. It's authenticated, authorized. It's a very safe transaction to go through. So this is the kind of experience our customers are going to get on PayZapp. You will get offers. You will get marketplaces where you can go and do shopping, and you can pay using PayZapp here. When I go to a mobile site, where I want to do any kind of a transaction, let's say I go to a simple website where I want to shop here. I will go here, choose by the product that I'm interested in, I added into the catalog and during checkout I'm going to see the option of, you see here Paytm, here PayZapp is available as well. Since I'm going through PayZapp, this is the checked option, I can place an order. But I'm buying from PayZapp for the first time here on that website. So I have to proceed securely, I put my OTP here, and link the account for the first time. So the account is linked on that website that I can pay through PayZapp, and then I can go and pay. I will get an OTP here to do the transaction and I confirm to pay. So this is how I paid at Bigbasket using PayZapp as well. So these are various kinds of use cases which are possible here through PayZapp. There was a question on how are we creating an open ecosystem because the world is opening up. We have created PayZapp as an issuing wallet where anybody can link any kind of card, account on this particular wallet. You can walk into any store, whether it is a physical store or it is an online store. You will be able to go and transact at the store using this particular wallet. To begin with, we will also have the capability of Tap & Pay. So I don't need a physical card. I can just put all my cards into this particular wallet and I can go into an NFC-enabled store and just pay by tapping the phone as well. So those are the kind of transactions that we are enabling here. There are a host of transactions which are possible, but in the interest of time, I'm just going to pause here and give a short demo of the acquiring side as well, which was SmartBuy because there was a question that a lot of merchants are getting acquired. How are we doing it? What is it that we are adding new? I'll just take a few minutes to share with you what is the kind of acquiring work which we are doing. So this is SmartBuy app. As Parag mentioned and in the morning, Sashi also alluded to that we want to acquire 20 million merchants. We have acquired 3 million so far. So if we have to acquire 20 million merchants, the approach has to be very different. It has to be as simple as acquiring a simple customer on PayZapp. It has to be as simple as that. So think of it, I'm a small shopkeeper in rural hinterland of Bihar. I want to become a merchant who can accept money from my customers. How do I do that? Either somebody has to come and open an account for me, which is a time-taking laborious process or what is the other option here. The other option is SmartHub. And that's what I want to share here, how does SmartHub work to make me a merchant. I'm a shopkeeper, I have a current account with a bank, but I am not a merchant. I can't accept. So what's the kind of journey that I'm going to see? I will choose -- this is an app, SmartHub app. I choose my language. I go here, put my mob -- let say, I want to register. I enter my mobile number. I'm registering here. I enter my PAN card details, it gives me terms and conditions, which I say continue, give my OTP for verification, OTP is verified. So step 1 is complete. Step 2 is I set up MPIN for my account that I've just now created. So I'm going to set an MPIN here. I confirm it. I enable my Touch ID as well. I say, okay. So the MPIN is set up on my app as well. This is checking for eligibility if I can become a merchant or not. There are lots of checks, which is happening at the back end. I can accept all payments on the app, SMS Pay for home delivery as well. So here are the accounts that I have. I have a novelty superstore account. If I choose one of these accounts for accepting money into that account. And I say, yes, we go ahead. So here, it says I'm almost done, in the business category, what do I do? Let's say, I'm an apparel store. I choose that. I give my GSTIN number, e-mail ID, I give my amount. Here again, where you helped by an HDFC employee. This is again an assisted and an unassisted mode. It will work in both. So we choose the terms and conditions as a shopkeeper. I move ahead and do a complete thing. The sign-up is complete, and I have become a merchant who has a QR code with a mobile number. I am ready to accept money from my customer who might be wanting to pay me through UPI, through any of the cards, accounts. I'm able to access money on my mobile phone itself. I don't need anything separately. So to go -- I want to go and collect. How do I collect? I get my first customer who's walking in, that customer wants to pay me through Bharat QR. I go and enter the mobile number of that customer, say INR 1,000, give the description and say, initiate payment. I get a QR code. My customer from their phone is going to scan this particular QR code and make a payment of INR 1,000 from that phone to this phone. It comes to me. So the moment this money comes to me, I go into my dashboard, I see that I have got INR 1,000 of sales, which is available here. Now the next customer who comes to me wants to pay not through Bharat QR but through UPI. And here, the customer has actually taken the product and gone home. So I want to send the UPI collect message to that customer saying that "Please Pay Me." I give the mobile number, I give my INR 1,500 account, I want to share this link with my customer through WhatsApp or through an e-mail, through anything. Now this INR 1,500 collect call has landed up on the WhatsApp message of the customer. Now that -- when I go back to the dashboard, you see here, this is still INR 1,000. It's not INR 2,500. Because my customer has not paid me that so far. And when I go here, I see that the first transaction of INR 1,000 is in green. That means I have received that money. This one is in yellow, I have not received that money. When my customer initiates the payment from there using UPI and pays, this becomes green, and that is the time when this balance will become INR 2,500 for me. So as a merchant, this gives me the ability to grow my business. I can become a merchant immediately on my mobile phone and start accepting any forms of payment. Not only that, it allows me to do a relationship management with my customers. I have got 1,000 people who always come to my store to take certain things and go back, I don't have to chase for payment. I will send them the collect request. They will send me the payment and all the accounting happens here. So what is different here? We are a bank. If we are doing this, we heard that a lot of fintechs are also trying to do this. But let's see how we add more value to the same merchant. Now I told you that I'm a shopkeeper in Bihar. I want certain amount of working capital loan. I have a card, but I need more money on that card. What do I do? I go here in that same app, and I choose a loan of INR 2 lakh to INR 15 lakhs, more than 1-year payment options. I want to see what are the options. HDFC Bank gives me Dukandar Overdraft, FlexiPay. These are the options available. Business loan, Insta loan, Jumbo Loan. Multiple options with different terms and conditions. Now here, let's say I choose this 12 lakh loan, I want to apply for it. The moment I proceed -- you have seen that Adobe form, right, from where we were taking loans. Now that form appears here inside that same mobile app. Now on this app, as a merchant, I'm going to give my details. This is my mobile number, the OTP, the whole journey that we saw of taking a loan. The moment I confirm it here, I get a INR 8 lakh loan transferred into my account through the same SmartHub app. I did not have to speak to anyone. I did not go and meet a banker, I didn't go to any branch. This is possible because we are a full suite bank. So we can bring in not just payments, we bring in full banking as a service. Everything is available here on that same app for the merchant. So acquiring side, all merchants will be able to do this by downloading an app and becoming a merchant themselves if they love IKEA furniture. If they are like my wife, who wants to order from a local carpenter, then that is also possible. We can have bankers around their feet on street, salesmen who can go and help them become merchants very, very quickly. And on the issuing side, we have PayZapp that has got an ambition of becoming the payment app for the country. So on both sides, these come together to create a complete ecosystem, and there are a lot more possibilities there. We can create different [ sections ] like instant settlement. Because on issuing side, this is our account. And on the acquiring side, is also our account. Nothing stops us from doing an instant settlement, which will give an amazing experience to customers, even through credit card, debit card, any of the products, not just through UPI. So these are the possibilities which open up once we start getting scale here. And this is what we are doing across all our retail products and across SME and corporate to go ahead with. So I'll just pause here and if you want to take any questions.

So a very good afternoon, everyone. My name is Arvind Vohra, I look after Retail Branch Banking. And I, along with my friends, Sampath and Smita will talk about how we have been working around building the customer franchise, how we manage the life cycle. And I guess some of the interesting questions that came up Sashi's way on retail liability. And we'll talk about 3 things fundamentally. What is our strategy? Our strategy is very simple. What has that strategy is delivered? And what is our ambition, yes? In each of our strategic elements, I'll try and focus only on very simple aspect of what is the real competitive advantage that we're trying to build? I know there were a lot of questions in the morning, physical versus digital and so on and so forth, and we're going to address all of them proactively. And any questions, most welcome as we sort of build on the presentation. So first of all, the presentation is all about simple strategy and [indiscernible] execution and big ambition. The key elements of our strategy is when we look at our branches, we just don't look at branches putting up where like 4 years back, we used to discuss that how do we set up new branches. You talk about, in every cluster head we can set up 1 or 2 branch and so forth. But we have built a very scientific approach, a distribution planning tool, so which we plan, what kind of branch we build, right? And there's not one kind of branch. And I'd say, multi-format distribution science that you're building into it. The complete science of how a distribution-oriented company would do, a retail company would do, right? Whereas a retail company fundamentally means the [ promos ] and the trends and so forth we've heard, so then you figure out where you're going to get the maximum revenue per square feet, EBITDA per square feet, and also build the brand value and the competitive advantage. What is our approach of managing customer life cycle? In the morning, we were discussing about raising liabilities. I actually have a slightly different view of this word. Liabilities are not raised, they come. Assets are raised. Assets are sourced. Liability is very difficult to say that, "Okay, you're giving INR 500,000. Why, for what reason?" right? You give it because you have trust. You give it because there's neighborhood trust. You give it because the processes are simple. You're happy with the service, right? Or you are predictively understanding customer needs and solving them, right? So we'll talk about that. Some of this is really -- is the reason that our strategy has worked, right? And that's something that I'm going to talk about. And latest view on conversations. Why is the year important? So that we can predict customer needs proactively rather than even asked for it, right? So this is our first culture. That's the fundamental, enabling physical transformation. So when we think of branch and digital, we sometimes think of 2 things. it's physical versus digital is a global debate that's going on. Our view is that both are going to be important, and both are going to converge into each other. So it's going to be about digital rendering in the physical world, right, and bringing the humanization impact while dealing with digitization. Both are going to be important. I'm sure we understand the motive value of any brand, any relationship. And that's the real anchor of our digital transformation. Some of the growth segments, rural employee banking, I'll talk about. So we no longer call our salary team as salary, we call it employee banking and the reason for reclassifying it that way and government something that Smita will talk about. What have we delivered? 2x retail CASA in the last 3 years, and 1.9x retail CASA TD in the last 3 years. Three years back, if somebody told you, whatever HDFC Bank achieved in 24 years, we're going to achieve exactly the same thing in 3 years from now, let say '19, right? And today, what we want to tell you is that we've achieved that. But this is the retail deposit side of the picture. This is not the overall deposits of the bank because the corporate deposits was a part of that, and that's a different segment, there different challenges and opportunities there, something you've heard in the morning. But retail deposits, we have doubled in last 3 years, right, from about 550,000 to over 1,050,000 -- 1,075,000 which means that whatever bank did in 24 years, we achieved that in the last 3 years. And our best today is exactly the same. We are going to further double it in 3.5 years, give and take a few months. I'm sure you'll pardon us for that, right? So message is we have a credible strategy in place. We have doubled in the last 3 years or 3 years, maybe 2 months, because it's 1.9x from CASA TD, right? And we're going to double in next 3.5 years, as simple as that. And we're going to each of these elements of strategies on videos so that you get a really a finite view of what is really happening. And there's no acronym in the whole presentation, try to keep it very simple, strategies are simple as long as we sort of talk about them in a simple manner. But before we talk about liabilities, let's talk about our customer franchise. Any fintech, any services, be it telecom, be it banking, be it financial services, insurance. What is the core fundamental strength, competitive advantage of any company? The customer base that you have and how happy is the customer base, simple. Number of customers you have, number of customers you're acquiring and how happy you're keeping them. What are you getting out of that, isn't it? So look at our growth, 4.4 million customers we used to acquire in a year, 3 years back. Last year, we acquired 8.28. Our next ambition now is to acquire 1 million a month. I think that should be happening roughly about 15 months from now. It could be a few months earlier, it could be a few months later. 1 million a month means 12 million a year. That's the next milestone. And we're not going to stop here. But look at the impact on values, if our unit growth has gone up by 1.9x, the new customer acquisition value has grown by 2.1x, because the natural question will come to your mind is that, "Hey, you're acquiring customers, what are you doing with them? What are they giving to you, right?" Last year, we acquired the new customer acquisition value of a whopping INR 71,950 crores. That's not the liability size book of 60% of banks in this country. And our ambition there is to -- when we take it to 12 million, we are talking about 100 -- INR 1 lakh crore new acquisition value alone. That is just one of the funnels. You asked this question, where is this lability is going to come from. It's going to come from this new acquisition value. It's come from our change in base. It will come from a partnerships. I'll talk about all the funnels. This is one of them. But this is fundamental because this is where the customer is gone. This is where the seed is. And if the seed will grow, we'll have the fruits and we'll have all kinds of fruits. We'll have apples, oranges and everything. All the retail assets is what I mean and all the business banking assets is what I mean. Because the strategy is to talk in combination, not talk in silos. We don't acquire liability customers go and say, "Hey, I want your liability relations." That's not how the liability sales happen, right? So how do we do? What is the competitive advantage? Before I get there on the life cycle part, let me talk to you about our distribution strategy. This is the math you see, branches that we have set up, 50% rural. This is all there. What you have not seen so far is the right side of it. Then we see branches, okay? For HDFC Bank, please stop thinking brick and mortar. My humble request to each one of you. When we think visual branches, it's a sales and service set up with digital rendering of the services. What is non-digital is only the humanization part. So would you see at the bottom, digitization plus humanization, superior customer experience. This is a strategy of the branch. The word is a branch for us, it's nothing like a branch or an office. Actually, office is a wrong name for it. The right name is it's my consumer-facing store. And I have 2 stores as a bank. I have website, net banking, which is my digital store and I have a physical store, which may have all, right? But there my rendering is digital as well, right? And we're going to talk about that. Plus, we are looking at small formats. And even in this expansion plan, that 2 to 5 years that you see, a lot of that is digital format, first of all, I'll explain what is that. All of them Gold Loan enabled. Rural savings because that's where the big opportunity is. And the other format that we have worked upon is smart banking Lobbies and digital banking units, right? We're setting up 4 pilots right now and what we're putting in the digital banking unit is like all of us have heard about ATMs, right, automated teller machine. So we are putting up ACMs, automated care machines, which will have service, care, because finding care is the fundamental offset before you get into pay, save, invest and insure, right? All banks talk about that. But finally, the care will take a precedent, then everything else will flow from this. So we're putting up at ACM, we are putting a tab with walk out working journeys and so and so forth, something that I'll talk to in my coming slides. And then the BCs, which is what Smita will touch upon. I've been spoken with the branches and the [ BCs ] and so on and so forth, right? So strategy here is digitization plus humanization. Combination of the 2, helping us deliver a competitive advantage in the way we're doing it. And this is the science which is multi-formatted science, identified through very, very scientific basis, not just the bureau data or the per capita data or the RBI deposit site, but we look at delinquencies. We look at fastest return where we will get. We look at places of interest. So every cluster head would typically have a Google map. You see this district of it in Rajasthan, where the 3 colors that you see is high, medium, low potential. So you will actually zoom in into this, you click this, one of the high-potential PIN codes, you get into places of interest information, where it will tell you that in Google Maps, when we do Uber and Ola, we know that it shows where is the university, where is the community, where is the traffic high and low traffic and so and so forth. We use that analysis kind of what the exact type of market I should have a branch or a smart banking lobby or a digital banking unit. That's the level of granularity of science we're building it into, right? We just opened a branch in [ Shillong ] we were skeptical about opening branches. INR 500 crore market, first private sector bank to enter, when Sashi traveled there, he inaugurated it, right? In 2 years' time, we believe he will build a INR 50 crore franchise. Deputy commissioner came along with Sashi to inaugurate because they're so happy. They have all cash crops like mushroom and broccoli, which are sold at good prices, right? They have a good highway now connecting them. This INR 50 crore would not come if you're not present in that district, right? And the litmus test is, we have a benchmark of 2 to 3 years of breakeven. But because of this science, we are breaking in within 12 to 24 months more than 55% of branches. And some of them are breaking, by the way, 9 to 10 months as well, right? It's all happening because the science is granular of what we set up. The second part of our strategy is how we manage the customer life cycle. When we look at a branch, again, first, the request that made is don't look at brick and mortar, look at it as -- second request is, don't look at it as inbound. Branch is not at all meant for only inbound. In fact, that's the least which is meant for because we don't want people to come in for transactions that should happen digitally. We want people, if at all, they come in to come in for a financial conversation, the value that we add to them, right? Branch is a sales and service setup that looks at a catchment, looks at every important customer to be mapped, right? And when I say every important customer, we have these 10 segments: education, health care, localized industries, merchant and traders, rural. So every branch would map customers with 300, 400, 500 customers. Tax them, there are conversion plans being made, potential being dimensioned. And then when we approach them, we don't approach them for liabilities. Typically, we would approach customers, map it, understand its needs, then you'll get an RTFX, retail, trade, forex which is also part of retail bank maybe [indiscernible] , right, or credit cards. And then they will offer holistic set of solutions to that customer because you are giving the customer the fundamental value proposition of HDFC Bank value. right? Then the customer relationship starts. And typically, the relationship will start, you like it. So it comes with a process of our demonstrating our complete end-to-end value proposition to him. So doing the cash back scoping, need based customer conversations, welcome immersed nourish, right? So every customer we call them within 7 days. We're putting processes away 30-day, 90-day engagements, right? And when we do that, we are doing it through analytics now, which is what we call Next Best Action. So what is Next Best Action really and how does it help on the life cycle? In the morning, I think we were doing a lot of discussion on analytics and underwriting and price [indiscernible] talk as we about months number of preapproved offers, right? But do you think any preapproved offer means that customer may actually need this? What do you think? For example, we have a -- which we're trying to make a point. Mr. Mukesh Ambani may have a pre-approval offer for a personal loan. Do you think he needs it? Yes or no? Answer is intuitive, isn't it, right? So what this does is, this brings us the intersection of creditworthiness, which is one lens, propensity and intent. It meshes them together. Ravi Santhanam, our CMO, and his analytics team, he's my partner in crime. And of course, Sampath and all of us work together to do this. But when you combine these 3 things, creditworthiness, propensity and intent. Propensity needs looking at surrogates that he or she will need that product. Intent is the customer was searching for auto loan day before yesterday, and it all goes to him in 24 hours. Okay, if that's what you're looking at could we look at and give examples. Where customers say, "How do you know that I'm looking for an auto?" The customer is surprised. We call that initiative immediate NBA. So NBA is a big brand right now, and we have layers of it, incredible NBA, immediate NBA, where some of these intersection will happen, which is helping us drive the productivity. You see some numbers there, how the productivity is getting driven. And okay, let me show you a sample of this. I hope this works. So this is a kind of screen the RM looks at, both Sampath, Virtual RM and my branch RM. And it's not limited to just product and service products. It starts with service. I'm going to talk about the service first culture. If a customer doesn't haven't made a nomination in his account, do you think it will help the customer by advising him, please do the nomination? Because we all know in this country, how much money in the debt accounts finally get paid back to the RBI, no claimant. Not just in banking, but mutual fund industry every industry that we talk about, painful thing to see, right? So whether it's Form 15G, 15H, e-KYC, nomination details, all of them are part of -- the service NBA is what we call it. Along with service NBA then, you have credit cards and other propositions. And then you also have, for example, this is the kind of stream that a RM will look like. And he is not only looking at the intervention, there a personal loan could be an option because of the 7x higher chances, but it will also give the narrative and the causation. That is the level of granularity we advise our RM. And this does not work. There's a feedback loop back to my analytics team in Ravi's team and Sunil Mathur's team, which looks at that feedback loop and that feedback look itself from the RM improves the AI engine, so that the engine become -- keeps becoming better and better as we go through. And I do believe that we are building a serious competitive advantage here, mixing up the credit part, the propensity part and the intent part. And not just on this, we looked at the new acquisition value. And I don't know if many of you would know who track the banks that the change in base the book side. There's a new acquisition part and then there's a change in base part, right? People -- different banks have different names for it. But the change in base typically never moves. It goes up by 2% or goes down by 2%, typically remains flattish for most banks, for us it was also the same [ 3 years ] time. But again, we have put through analytics enablers, predictive loss of relationship, attrited loss of relationships, self transfer this thing. It look at surrogates, loan rejection, low balance. If you've seen that if we reject a loan of somebody, our balances and relationship starts to drop. So what is the kind of intervention, we do here? So that is a predictive loss of relationship, then we have self-transfers. Self-transfer and vendor outflow mitigation. Somebody is transferring to his family or friends or to other same -- within same bank to a different bank from HDFC to ICICI or PNB or whatever that maybe. How do we engage with that customer using the retail so that we mitigate that flow, right? And we, for the last 2 years, consistently while year 1 could be attributed to the COVID led inflows also. But last year also, 4.8 million customer conversation, 91% engagement, 48% of these customers built balances where we had conversations, right? And an incremental value of almost INR 16,000 crores by the end of the year. It's a 2-month cycle on which we operate. You see some of the sample of this as well in terms of there is a self-transfer case and customer has a loan outside HDFC Bank. So it gives us 2 opportunities to talk about. Shift his loan back, right, if he take it over, but also gave the opportunity to build liabilities balance, right? So all that I'm trying to say is that liabilities is an outcome. Good health is an outcome of this thing. If there's not tablet that you take and still balances start to grow. It's this holistic approach and maybe a little bit ambiguous and complex, but if you master it, then it becomes a competitive advantage. And that's what we have try to build, and that's the engine that she was referring to in the morning. Then is the relationship management architecture, Sampath will talk about the virtual side. Largest relationship program in the country, and 13.5 million as part of our relationship management architecture. We have not only in Infiniti, Imperia, Preferred, Classic as a key program. At the top end, now we are adding 5-crore plus relationships Infinity. And for Imperia and [indiscernible] we are looking at differentiated programs. Do you think in rural people will understand what this word Imperia means? Yes? Yes or no? Intuitive, isn't it? That's why this vertical that we set up. That's the kind of discussion with our products team we are doing. Maybe they will understand Vishesh. They will understand Vishesh, but it's not just about the name. It's about the kind of elements you pack into from a segment perspective, agri inputs, soil testing stuff, right, and those kind of things, which is delivered for that segment. You saw the segment focus approach, those 10 segments, which have further 83 segments on my cash flow and scoping slide. That is going to be getting married with segment-focused propositions, right? That's also something -- so something that both me and Ravi, my partner in crime, we have been exposed in big way in the consumer marketing companies that we work with. So that's another thing that we're bringing to our banking. Virtual RM strategic program for us expanding our reach, really giving us a multiplier effect. But fundamentally, service first is the most important anchor of our relationship management architecture because if we have the right service, if we are proactive then everything flows on top of it. In absence of that, nothing is as important. So just a brief glimpse of how we are making our relationship management architecture, the key DNA really as a service first culture. A small minute video on this. [Presentation]

And as Sashi said, we are on this journey. And I must share with you, our MD Sashi is driving this with a lot of inspiration. When I started this journey, we started with things like as simple as how do we get bankers to smile? Too cold, I mean sometimes. So especially in a customer-facing scenario, while here it is professional, but I think -- why can't we add good as Oberoi hotels from a hospitality point of view. And we are in a service industry, we sell trust, isn't it? So trust is a function of our financials and the capital adequacy and all that stuff, but it's also about how we -- what's our body language. We started from there. And the last 1 year, I must share with you, Sashi reads every single customer e-mail, from A to Z. Something that I thought I used to be good at, but he has broken, I think, some new records. He will read, send it to Sampath, Smita, me, many of us, be it asset, be it any product category. So I think -- he's really champion in this course. We generally, generally believe in this journey. We implemented the Infinite Smiles program also the same Net Promoter Score things that you would have heard about. And we implement that as Smile score. So every branch, every virtual teams, they get another [ part of the ] bank, they get what we call is Smile score. But important part is not improving that score. I mean it's an outcome. Important part is who so ever is a detractor. Every detractor in the bank by the respective team is called back, engaged with and then we measure the score again, which is called the resolution [ effective ] right? And the last time, I think, 2 years back prior to COVID [indiscernible] some of you asked me the score. We still would not like to share our internal scores. So what we have discussed is this is an external benchmarking by PRISM. This is about the NPS. And this is for savings right now. And we seem to be -- something seems to be moving positively for us, but we do believe we have more work in this. And I think the vision that we've expressed here is that our benchmark is not just financial services, but we really want to be best -- not just best in class, but best across industries and across brands. But this an external benchmarking that tells us how we are moving. This is about digital transformation that we spoke about. So the branches will become paperless -- are becoming paperless, right? 3 years back, we used have to some 67 registers with [indiscernible]. That has come down by more than half. In next 6 months, we want to wipe out every single register for making notes and notes down. Every single branch, whether urban, rural, deep rural, is enabled through 2 or 3 biometric devices. Obviously, customer consent is mandatory because it's voluntary use. I still underscore that. But it's important that every branch is enabled with that. We're bringing an e-sign for legal documentation, automating all branch journeys. And we built a base service process, right? All the platforms that we spoke about, the digital Healthcare, which means that if there's a pay, save, invest, insure journey, the simple block there is also care. And within care, if you want to raise a service, complaint, feedback about anything within mobile app, within WhatsApp banking, with a simple QR code or by walking into branch, one could do that very, very simply. We've reimagined our CRM. There's a mobile on the go CRM that we have given to all our teams. Obviously, virtual teams have based out of the flex space, but all the rest teams that are based out of that. It gives them convenience of working out of -- anywhere working, so that it becomes convenient, makes teams a lot more efficient. Walk out working journey, it essentially means that when you come to my physical store or the digital store, which is website, by the time you go out of that, your process will be done. Let me give you an example. Address change journey. We had a process in our net banking 2 years back, where you go there, fill a form, not so simple, a little bit complex. Fill it up, it goes to the back end, somebody checks it, and within TAT of 2 days to process it, right? Now we put up a simple walk out working journey, which just use your Aadhaar authentication process and put the same address, 2 advantages. One, it makes it real time, because by the time customer is going out of the branch, it is done. What is the second advantage? Second advantage is I don't need to do the back end, checking things and so on and so forth. So that cost goes away, right? We just play a small video what happened when, can we play the video. What happened when we rolled out the address change journey. [Presentation]

The important thing was that, right, she was walking out of the door, the address was changed in the system. No TAT nothing. Like you had an ad, fill it, check it, forget it. So just get done with. That is the walk out working journey. And this walk out working journey right now available as stand-alone journeys, right? But the same thing is going to come in form of a QR code. The same thing will be in the net banking that Anjani spoke about. The same thing is part of our WhatsApp banking, right? So very soon, in 3 to 6 months' time, you'll see all branches having QR code, some of the ATMs having QR code, some of our corporate centers having QR codes. All this elements will be available there, right? Because -- if you have to go to Rome, does one road go to Rome, right? They are 5 roads go to Rome. Everybody's preference whatever road they want to take, somebody wants to come to the bank, somebody wants to just do it from a QR and so on and so forth. That's what we're going to be doing and make it really, really simple if we have to achieve that vision that we spoke about. I'm going to just breeze through this Insta Account journeys where we have this. And the number that Parag mentioned [ 67% ] that is for a total number of accounts. Right now, we have 56% if you take only full KYC accounts. Because from business point of view, that's what we track full KYC confidence that shows the level of involvement that the customer product has with us. And we are going to be having a similar journey in our Insta current account, integrated journey. So all the auto circle, et cetera, you're seeing we spoke about that if you don't have these savings accounts with the bank, you can still go through that journey. But we can always give the option of opening savings accounts through this Insta account, isn't it? And if we do that, imagine the multiplier effect of the power of these platforms that we're building. So here, you're doing an auto loan and auto circle or a Vyapar SmartHub, right? So our current account journey that we're building here will get integrated into Vyapar as well. And this is the crisscross of mesh that we create that whichever platform you go to, we help customers to serve in the best possible manner, get his liabilities relationship as well. But this is something we have to work out, Anjani that's action area that we have to do. So we'll catch up on that. Business Express. So there is a retail customer, there with corporate customers. We already have the ENet and CVS at the top end. But this is a simple app, whether it is for GST payments, for tracking payables, simple cash flow management thing or just making bulk salary payments, right? You open a new start-up, you want to make bulk salary payments, right? So this is the app and platform for that. This should also be out in next 4 to 6 months as part of our physical transformation of the complete retail part. I touched upon this life cycle -- life-centric inside base propositions, so all the segments that we spoke about, these are all based on some of the other customer insights, right? My Account My Choice. Can anybody get what is the book size of My Account My Choice? I had it in the presentation then I realized it would have been in the website. We don't want our competitors to know about it. So don't tell them. But can you guess what is our my account? My Account My Choice is all about customer choosing an account number that he likes, may add up to a numerology number of 9 or its daughter's birthday being part of this number or whatever, right? We rolled it out, I think, Sampath, and you're looking after product. And today, our book size is INR 25,000 crore. Can you imagine? 30% of that is existing customers, 70% of that is all new customers. But even existing customers, if somebody had an affinity for number 9 or his daughter's birthday in his savings around number, do you think this customer lifetime value will be more or less? Think about it, you'll get the answer. Then you will figure out where is our competitive advantage. And we are sharing our book in a little bit of open manner here, right? Why we have delivered this 2x growth in the last 3 years. And why we're extremely confident that we'll do 2x growth in the next 3.5 years, right? Super premium savings account where lifestyle is the insight, Super Premium kids account, right? All of these have 5xp normal ATF because there we have tie-ups with BYJU'S for an easy education or a Jamboree tie-up where people who want to go abroad, we give them counseling sessions through that. Even FD, which is a very commoditized category. But what's the insight? The insight is safety, right? But if I add a term cover a little bit of that or a hospicash, which beyond the health insurance the customer may have, we give them INR 2,000 on unfortunate incident of hospitalization. What are we addressing? It's not just packaging of some 2 commodities together. It's addressing the insight of safety, right? Switch2Save and Insure. But this is just a glimpse. All the segments we spoke about, we're working on a doctor's product, we're working another products, segment-led go-to-market and segment-led life-centric insight-focused proposition. It is these 2 things sort of coming together to come. Rural, we briefly touched upon it. The opportunity is massive, as you see on the left side. Our shares are just about 9% on deposits and 18% on credit, and the opportunity is about INR 26 lakhs crore of deposit and INR 15 lakhs crore of credit. And we have 6 key levers of our rural growth pillars, right? Distribution expansion is one; a unique and a focused rural relationship architecture, right, and really be able to engage the pradhan ji and the sarpanch and the mukhyas and so on and so forth in a differentiated manner because a corporate headhunter requires a different way to treat. Rural seniors would require a different way. Curated rural proposition. Should we have a customized set of surrogates for rural credit? How do we evolve the propositions? We are looking at a rural opinion leader program. There are 67 agriculture universities in the country. And we are looking at partnering with each one of them, one per state, looking at how do we: one, work with agriculture universities for their salaries and payment collection and so on and so forth; but using them in our financial inclusion team in the other agri or other rural ecosystem value-add programs that they do and take them along with us because they can really provide life-centric value addition to this rural audience. And some innovations on shopper activation, bank on wheels and sarpanch sammaan samaroh and stuff like that, so that we break out that differentially. So this is something that we want to grow 2x in next 18 to 20 months, right? And we believe that this is imminently, imminently possible. So this is the, I think, second last slide. So retail deposits we have grown consistently to more than 2x the industry growth on everything that you look at. And again, this is retail deposits. So current, if industry is growing at 13%, we are growing at 24%; on savings, 28%. Even on term deposits, while at bank level, we may have a 7%, 8%, 9% growth, but the retail has grown by 21%, right? If I compare it to peer banks, we have done much worse on the bulk deposits, which is very -- are rate sensitive, but we have done much better on the granular deposit. But still, at 15% penetration, the runway of growth is massive, right? And retail CASA is 2x in 3 years, and total deposits is roughly about INR 10.6 lakh crore book, 1.9x in 3 years, growing market shares and not just the growth, the growth dispersion. 90% of the districts where bank has a presence, we have grown our market share, 90% districts, right? So it's not that the growth is coming from 1, 2 or 3 places, right? That validates that how well this -- the engine that we have built and improved further with the superior customer experience, superior -- of building a service-first approach and a digital approach is sort of helping us. So I think these are some of our ambitions. 12 million new annualized run rate in next 12, 15, 18 months; be the best customer experience brand; continuously grow 2x -- or more than 2x the industry growth rate; double the rural business in 24 to 30 months; analytics-led focus, the NBA that we spoke about and the further layers of whether it is incredible NBA and the immediate NBA; phygital transformation of branches. And branches no longer will remain branches. There will be phygital hot spots in multiple formats, SBLs, DBUs and phygital hot spots. And yes, we're going to deliver 2x deposit franchise growth, which is an outcome of all of this rather than trying to do it directly, in the next 3.5 years. Yes. So I guess that's all from my side. We'll take up questions once Sampath S. would have gone through their sessions. Next presentation, Smita? Do you want the clicker?

Good evening, everyone. I'm Smita. I will present you our strategy on and what are -- where we are and what are we going to do in Government & Institutional business. And how are we setting alternate banking channels and partnerships for the banks to support our existing infrastructure and [indiscernible]. I have an audiovisual presentation I will [indiscernible].

The opportunity across the Government & Institutional segment is enormous. We have only just scratched the surface. Our strategy focuses on 3 pillars. The first is central government, state government and local bodies. The second is the institutional business, encompassing educational institutions, trusts, NGOs, residential societies, religious bodies, health care, clubs and associations. The third is expanding reach by leveraging alternate banking channels and partners to increase the reach and distribution of HDFC Bank pan-India with flows of over INR 39 lakh crores budgeted for FY 2022-'23 for various schemes and payouts. Government of India has unlocked a large revenue pool by allowing private sector banks to conduct business for centrally sponsored schemes and central sector schemes. This flow is augmented by the Finance Commission fund flows that have a 5-year horizon. Highlights of Government business. HDFC Bank is a leading bank in managing government fund flows. Of the total INR 16 lakh crores of fund flow from the center to the states, about 26% flow through HDFC Bank pipes. This share will only grow further. We target retaining 8% to 10% of these funds by acquisition of vendors and beneficiaries using Saksham and beneficiary accounts. The Single Nodal Agency is a new construct introduced in September 2021 by the Government of India. HDFC Bank is recognized by the Ministry of Finance as one of the top 5 banks processing payouts, including DBT transfers through the Public Financial Management System, PFMS, under the aegis of the Single Nodal Agency construct. Of the 150 central sponsored schemes, the bank focuses on top 35 schemes that account for 86% of the total budget allocation. The bank is targeting 20% market share in these top 35 schemes in the current financial year. Public Financial Management System, PFMS. The bank aims to exponentially increase its share across the number of registered agencies from 2% to 10% in the current financial year. This will lead to a 3x increase in volumes over the next 18 to 24 months. HDFC Bank is impaneled as agency banker to the Government of India. HDFC Bank is the market leader for direct tax collection with 25% market share. It also holds a significant share of GST collections. At 14%, the bank is to maintain its current market share for direct taxes and achieve 20% market share for GST and custom duty collections in the next 12 to 18 months. New business opportunities have opened for private sector banks under various central and state government business. Pension opportunities. The target for the pension book is INR 15,000 crores to INR 20,000 crores in the next 3 years. Opportunities on eNAM ecosystem. HDFC Bank was integrated in the government's National Agriculture Market, eNAM portal in November 2021. The bank seeks to garner 10% market share in the next 12 to 18 months, focusing on all constituents across the agricultural value chain. State government opportunities. The total opportunity identified across states is INR 5.75 lakh crores. The bank's goal is to secure a market share of 10% to 15% in the next 2 to 3 years. Our value proposition. HDFC Bank leverages its wide branch network, along with alternate and digital banking channels as well as partnership networks for conducting its Government business. Technology plays a pivotal role in acquiring business given the volumes and values of government collections and disbursements. HDFC Bank CollectNow is a robust solution for collection and payouts. The comprehensive solution is offered to government and institutional customers to manage their businesses effectively. HDFC Bank, through technology service providers, facilitates plug-and-play solutions. Few examples of plug-and-play solutions are technology for agricultural procurement. As direct payments become the norm for agricultural procurements, the bank has been at the forefront in facilitating latest technology to state agricultural boards. We aim to take this forward in 10 to 12 states in the next 12 to 18 months. The e-tendering and e-auction platform is live in 6 states with INR 8.5 lakh crores of EMD collections, and we are looking to expand our footprint across 12 to 15 states in the next 18 months. Government project monitoring system. This solution helps governments to reduce time and cost overruns. Currently, over 5,000 projects are being monitored across 10 live setups in 5 states. The bank is looking to leverage this solution for business across the rest of the states in the next 15 to 18 months. SLI and CSR initiatives. The disbursements done by the inclusive banking, sustainable livelihood initiative and agri teams are showcased as part of our commitment to participate in the nation's development and act as enablers to acquire business. Institutional business opportunity. India has more than 75 lakh institutions with flows of INR 17 lakh crores. The education and health care segments account for close to 85% of the total pool. Other segments include religious institutions, housing societies, trust or NGOs and clubs, which account for the residual 15%. Education: approach to drive growth. The bank intends to adopt an ecosystem-based approach to harness the opportunity offered by the education industry. Examples include comprehensive solution with key features for managing fee collection, salary payments, payroll management, et cetera. Partnerships with Ed-Techs adopting an API banking approach to target growing segment. Reltech, the new mantra across religious institutions. India is a country with 30 lakh religious institutions. These are estimated to receive donations of approximately INR 23,000 crores per year from the public. This also includes 36,000 temples managed by 23 state governments endowment departments. Leveraging digital solutions integrated with the bank to collect donations, the bank seeks to achieve 10% market share in the next 15 to 18 months. Aiding convenience across housing societies. We estimate urban India has approximately 6 lakh housing societies in India that offer a revenue pool of INR 72,000 crores. The bank facilitates a wide variety of solutions, including collection of maintenance fee, event booking, along with the viewing notices, managing vendors and payments to them, et cetera. Our mission is to tap the opportunities through various initiatives and double the Government & Institutional book in the next 24 months. Technology and digital headwinds shaping the country give us conviction that it is the right time to build distribution in pockets of opportunities and support the existing network across all geographies. The adoption of technology, penetration of mobile and Internet in the country opens avenues to capitalize an untapped fertile ground with large pool of opportunities by digitally connecting the last mile. We have tied up with marque partners that have a vast agent network. Distribution structure for a new vertical will work in an octopus framework. Existing branch is at the core, which is supported by 5 to 8 agents centers from the partner tie-up covering a radius of 10 to 20 kilometers acting as HDFC Bank's distribution arms. The authorized agents centers are capacitized with the digital infra, including laptop, printer, webcam, et cetera. The bank supports these fixed point delivery centers with branding, creating visibility and integrating product APIs to function as an HDFC Bank mini branch and cross-sell all our banking products. The bank rides on the partner network to connect and offers liability, assets, payment products, EMI collection, cash deposit and withdrawal through these centers. Digitally assisted and unassisted journeys are in play with a combination of fintech and lead APIs, which delivers a seamless and quick user experience securely. We have taken a platform approach, and more than 44 APIs power the customer journey from origin to the source system where the business is booked. Building alternate channel brings in several benefits: a, 0 infrastructure costs to the bank with minimal manpower requirement; b, low cost of acquisition for every incremental business; c, replacement of loss-making branches and migration of small value transaction; d, expansion of market for bank and increasing collection capability in deep geographies. There is a parallel contribution on the societal side, lending our hand in nation building and participating in government's key agenda of financial inclusion and women empowerment. The channel has already done more than 2.15 million products with consistent delivery of 1 lakh products per month. We are on a trajectory to scale up to 5 lakh products per month in the next 12 to 18 months.

So I would just like to add 2 things here, how we are different -- how we are doing things differently compared to others. So if you see in the Government business, our main proposition is digital solutions to all the government departments. And as government is moving towards digitization and focusing -- I mean, digital India, we are able to gather a lot of market share. And in almost every state today, we are present, and we would have given at least one digital solution out there. And we are only going to scale it up. That was point number one. On the alternate banking channels, I'm sure you are aware of banking correspondents and banking facilitators, which every bank has been doing historically. What differentiates us is that usually, they were open to do gender accounts and domestic remittance, which were a huge market for everyone. But here, in our case, we have integrated all our product APIs with our agent outlets. And we are able to give all the products -- banking products, whether it's the liability, assets or payment products who are in the network. So combined with our existing branch network with all of these partnerships, we are obviously poised to double, triple the business, as Sashi was talking and also Arvind also mentioned in his presentation. After Sampath's...

Hi. Good evening, friends. Audible? So I take care of third-party products, nonresident business and the virtual channel. My colleagues from the morning have been offering up a host of presentations. I'm a little inferior that I'm going to only do a 3-slide presentation. So I would like to pardon for that. Can we have a -- I think they are searching the 3 slides. So I think that's the one. Fine. So that's the -- thank you. Okay. Let me give you a small heads-up on what our strengths are there on the third-party products. As you're all aware, after 2019, post the regulatory changes, as a bank, we are not supposed to do advisory. So we are a hardcore distribution strength. Across 6,300 branches, we distribute mutual funds and insurance products across an open architecture, which Sashi was talking in the morning. Our strengths are we have about 12% market share in the private sector insurance. And if you take LIC also together, as a whole, we have about 8% market share, which says that the volumes that we -- or the premiums that we mobilize year-on-year is as good as the third or the fourth largest insurance company all put together. So that's the strength. On Non-Life, it is an annuity product. It's an annual contract. So we are a little laggard. We are at about 1.9% of the private sector. We have plans and strategies to take it to the next levels. On mutual funds, we have about 5.07% of the total assets under management. We -- roughly about INR 85,000 crores to INR 90,000 crores of assets under management, and I think Rakesh will cover in depth on how the distribution is spread across. So what are key metrics? In premium mobilization, we are #2. #1, everybody knows, it's SBI. On fee income, we are the largest, overall largest contributor to all the insurance partners. Banca, we are the pioneers. We have a very strong methodology, which I think you would have seen in the past, but I just want to reiterate that it's not the first step of selling to a customer that we finish. What proves our strength is what processes that we undertake to ensure that the sale is the right sale because these are the products where it's very, very imperative that the sale has to be a right sale. Because if you do any mis-sale, if there is any mis-sale that happens, not only the customer gets irate, but he also loses out our relationship across all the corners of the bank. So we are the only bank who do something called the preverification call. Before even the application gets logged into the respective insurance manufacturer, there's a central team which calls on the recorded line and confirms to the customer saying that this is the product he has taken with. It's a power product, nonpower, ULIP and so on and so forth. And post the confirmation is the log-in done. If even a small error on the phone that no, that form doesn't get logged in. That testimony is defined by the proof of the pudding that my complaints in the insurance is the most, most negligible one, which has been disclosed on the website as well as to the regulators. That is one of the biggest strengths we do. The second strength is the artificial intelligence. And with the partners' underwriting and actuarial skill sets, we have created a concept called the preapproved [indiscernible]. So every customer with us will have what we feel, based on his transaction, on his profile, on age and so on and so forth, we feel how much should be the coverage either on the Life part or the medical or even the general part that the customer should have. And that narrative, like how Arvind was saying, and thanks to the marketing team which had constructed this, on the CRM, on the Next Best Action, this is one of the priorities where the RM communicates the same thing. And the narratives are the same. We are not doing any ordinary scripts on the narrative. Narrative is the same on customers' preapproved [indiscernible], and we have been doing a very good job on that. And now with more integration, we will increase the base. We'll be increasing and covering a lot more customers in that base. On any complaint that comes in across any third-party products, we have a L1, L2 level, where we have an external ombudsman. Before doing any denial, it is ratified by the external ombudsman. And that's kind of a robust methodology we have when we do about third-party products. And mutual funds, to just give you a small thought process, we don't have any complaints in mutual funds. It's a 98% digital journey for customers in the mutual funds. We are a very, very open architecture that way. We have a recommendation done by the central research team. I think you might know my team members who participate in the research. They put out the recommendation. And across length and breadth of the country and 25,000 more certified staff, they talk the same language. There's nothing that is positioned to a customer which is not a part of our recommendation. And in case the customer wants to participate, it's available on our NetBanking with certain declaration that he's doing it on his own. So this is a channel which I would love to talk about. We have the virtual relationship channel. 6 years back, we thought that, why should I force a customer in how I want to reach him? Let him decide how he wants to reach me. So in that perspective, we created a virtual channel. And I don't know whether I should say fortunately or unfortunately, COVID hit us in the month of March. Everything became digital. Everything became phone-based. Everything became Teams-based, Zoom-based and whatever you want to call. So we started participating and joining that journey by reaching out to the customer in his necessary time through phone. Believing our guys were essential services, so we were allowed to walk into the office and connect with the customer. And that's where we started experiencing that this is a very strong mode of reaching out to the customers. What do we do there? We didn't do anything. We don't do sales. We'd only checked in the initial stages how the customer was. Is there anything the bank could do? Are there any financial services that he wants to do at his doorsteps? And that was provided to him. Simple steps, nothing much. Like how Arvind said, liability cannot be sold. It has to be garnered. So we took that route saying that in 4.5 minutes, I'm not in a position to contact a customer and talk to them about liabilities. The maximum I can tell him is, "We respect you as a customer. And here are the product suites, which we think are preapproved for you. Pick and choose what you want." And that's where we were very successful. And the kind of units that we generate are quite phenomenal. We touched base close to about 25 million customers. We have an average revenue growth of about 16% to 18%. It's a low-cost channel initially because of the infrastructure, CapEx cost. It would look something blown up, but I think it's -- on a longer run, it will become a single-digit cost center. So this is one thing which I really feel so proud. I think the entire Board and Sashi have given us this mandate. We changed our phone banking name into Virtual Care. And seriously, we care. So what we have done, when we wanted to rerun the channel, we reached out to some brilliant consultants who gave presentations like this. So we asked them, what are the global standards? They said 85% of the customers are serviced in 20 seconds. We did small, small, little, good things that we know on the ground, and we went wrong. We did 92% to the customers in 9 seconds. So the same consultant took our numbers, and now I think they are going outside and presenting how we do things. So that's one thing which we clearly said that when a customer reaches out to me, their touch point to reach out to the bank is the decision of the customer, whether he goes to a branch, mobile, net, web or phone. I need to service him. And when I'm talking about service, what Arvind alluded to is I need to bring a smile on the customer face when he keeps the phone. And that's why we try to reach out. And if you see certain numbers here, the resolution TAT is 99.93%. We faltered in 0.07%. We are rectifying it. It's a continuous process. The closure rate is at about 99.79%. Because certain times, there are external dependencies also for the closure. And I think that e-mail team has also become quite robust. The first set of people who started working from home since the 23rd of March, when the COVID hit us, is the e-mail management team. So they were quite integrated, and they were completely supportive of the cost that they have to respond within the set TAT of 24 hours. And customers have been appreciating on that. We used to have a model where the customer reaches out through phone banking, we had an opportunity to cross-sell. So we changed that. We said that the larger portion of the phone banking will only be service. And people who are not being able to be contacted on the outbound because of the regulatory environment when they come in, there will be a very small, dedicated team, which will also help our serve-to-buy concept. I will service him. I will give him the offer. He can go to any channel to pick up what he wants from the bank. So that has been a very successful story so far, and we'll keep improvising on such initiatives to ensure that we believe very strongly, it's a customer-centric approach that we have. I always keep telling my team members, all those strategies which were shown to you across all departments, I finally conclude to myself that the bank is run on the ground, and I have only 2 capital to invest. One is the customer, and one is my staff. So if I keep my staff very happy, he will keep the customer very happy. [Foreign Language] customer very happy. So we keep the environment. So our infra teams have worked very hard to create a very eco-friendly environment because we are all call centers, so-called call centers. The environment should be happy. Just imagine 6.5 hours on the phone. So we changed certain sequencing. Nothing is manual. Everything is automated because we didn't want to have a data leakage. So we put everything on the dialogue. So we kept all manual out of the relationship manager's touch points, like how we are working on one of the new technology initiatives called Sprinklr. That will give a lot of more flavor to these guys and create more efficiency and ease. So with that, I'll stop my bit. In case you guys have any questions to us, we'll be more than happy to answer. Or can we have a second session? No, I'm okay standing. No questions? Thank you very much. Arvind, over to you.

Good evening. Good evening, everyone. I just wanted to take a glimpse of wealth, as you have heard Sashi say in the morning. Wealth private banking is one of our 10 pillars of growth identified by Sashi. So is digital, the entire digital channel. There's -- so these are the 2 pillars of growth identified by Sashi. And we'll cover -- between me and Ravi, we'll cover the 2, how are we executing these 2 principles -- the 2 pillars of growth per se. Last year has been a good year for us. We actually got recognized by 3 leading magazines. One is the Financial Times. The other is Euromoney. Third is Asiamoney. They all recognized for the work we have done on wealth. Specifically just to take you through what active AUM we manage. We manage close to -- an active AUM between MFs and alternates, of about close to INR 1 lakh crores. This is the first time we are disclosing some of these numbers in public domain. This is just to give you a picture of what we managed per se. Our AUM growth is about 23%. We enjoy our market share of close to 5%. The average yield on our AUM is about 62 basis points. On the wealth side, which is far more actively managed, we have a INR 69,000 crores AUM, but the net inflows last year were close to INR 10,000 crores. We managed close to 1 lakh plus customers with a 50% ARR. We'll take you through the details as we go along. In terms of the growth in AUM, in the last 3 years, we have seen our AUM grow from INR 63,000 crores to INR 93,000 crores. This is especially the mutual fund AUM. The INR 6,000 crores is our alternate AUM. On the net flows, we've seen a remarkable growth. We've nearly doubled our net sales every year in the last 2 years. The wealth customers have grown from 73,000 to about 1 lakh and 10,000. Wealth households are above, from 23,000 to 41,000. This will keep growing. Our stated objective is to cover every potential wealth customer. Every potential client of the bank should be a wealth customer. That is our stated objective, and we will do that. We are just taking you and giving you some perspective. There's a lot of discussion that happens in most of funds about ultra HNW vis-à-vis the HNW, affluent and mass affluent and why our focus continues to be HNW, affluent and mass affluent. So if you look at, this is a McKinsey slide, actually, we have taken it under the McKinsey research. 83% to 85% of the market is basically between the HNW, affluent and mass affluent across Asia. I want to pause here. This is the kind of market we are talking about across Asia, where 83% to 85% of the market is largely between HNW, affluent and mass affluent and growing. And the incremental revenue, if you see from a revenue perspective also, 90% of the revenue, incremental revenue comes from this segment, which is one of the reasons why it is one of our pillars of -- so what are we doing here? We have focused on B30 cities. We'll take you through the rationale of why we are doing B30 cities. We have increased our RM strength to about 600 RMs. The FY '22 number -- exiting number of 542, we are currently about 600, going to about 1,000 by March '23. We are doing in-house skill building completely because given the kind of RM strength we are looking at to build over the FY '23, '24, '25, we don't think we will have available professionals. So we -- most of the skilling is being done internally. As a part of the MD mandate, we were looking to reach out to 100% of our managed customers within a period of 36 months. We are following a portfolio management approach. We will show you why we are following that approach. We have done a potential analysis of our customer base. And basically through the -- both through the AI/ML route, we are getting to a potential, then getting to penetration in that potential. We are looking at -- we are also doing quarterly portfolio review and rebalancing for our managed plans. On the technology side, we are moving from InvestTrack, which used to be our earlier application, to a Finacle plus Valuefy application. Some of you -- if you are our customers who have experienced this particular application, the reports are coming, which are far more detailed in nature. You will see these complete DIY reports being available by this quarter because this is under implementation per se. The -- as Sampath mentioned, 98% of the -- 98% of all this is completely digital, and there's a fair bit of analytics and AI involvement here. We continue to commit ourselves to a very open architecture. Most of the stuff is nonproprietary in nature. We had also committed to doing a right client, right product offering. We spoke -- and Sampath S. spoke about that as a part of our practice that we will have a right client, right product offering. The -- this also -- the recommendations are -- for the FAMA Model, I take you through what we are doing on the recommendation side. So just from a geography expansion, this is the first part of our pillar. We have moved from -- to about 831 locations per se, where we are offering wealth services today, which basically comprises of hubs of 79 and the spokes of 759. So we are -- people are based in 80 locations physically, but they travel across to cover another 759 locations. The mandate from the Board, from the MD is to cover about 1,000 locations, and we are committed to doing that as well. We are going into it working with Arvind's team. We are working at cluster-level planning, cluster-level engagement. It is getting into that level of granular execution. MD spoke in the morning about our focus on granular execution. We are going to cluster-level execution on -- as far as this is concerned. Obviously, we spoke about the intensive training, which is involved in training our people as well. This is a number which is shared by a lot of wealth firms. Leave you to guess what people share. But this is our growth in ARR. We started with 39% ARR. We are currently at 50%. This is essentially comprising trail income coming from our mutual fund, alternates and our broking clients. We moved to an ARR based just to get away and prove you -- to you that the transactional nature of the business was already continuing in various other wealth outfits. We have moved away from the transaction to a relationship-based model completely. And the moment we moved to a relationship-based model, you can see the jump in net sales we have seen. INR 10,000 crores of net sales is what some of the wealth -- top wealth firms have recorded last year as well. Now coming to what we are doing on the digital side. We will give you some data points here. 16% is what the -- our current AUM to GDP ratio is, 63% the global average. These are some data points. I'll leave it -- these are publicly available data points. But far more important is that we are wanting to invoke through our digital platform, our 6,000 branches get into Tier 2 cities, do end-to-end digital onboarding, have an intuitive UI/UX, goal-based investing, model portfolios and understand the customer closely from a risk profiling perspective. How will the -- how will our wealth app look like? Anjani would have mentioned this to you in his presentation on what we are doing. Essentially, it is a 5-step journey. We're engaging to acquire. On a pre-login space here -- the app is going to be available next quarter. On a pre-login stage here, there's no disclosure of any information required by the customer at all. So whatever suggestions on wealth is concerned, it's completely available, pro bono, till you actually desire to transact. The entire -- literally, the entire thing, so we are not going to call a customer and say, "Why did you log in? Give me your phone number, then log in, and then I'm going to chase you." We are not going to do that at all. We have taken that call, and we are not going to do that. We are making this information completely available. And our intention is that if the product -- if our product proposition is very good, customers will come to us. We can see that in the physical world. Why shouldn't it happen in the virtual world as well, the digital world as well? We can see most of our customers. We currently manage about 41,000 families. We can see that customers coming back and buying more from us. So I'm sure this is going to happen in the digital channel as well. There is a complete digital onboarding, which involves risk profiling, goal-based investing and a customer-centric experience. Some of the images which I shared here is exactly how the wealth app will look like. We are in the testing phase at this point of time. And hopefully, you will see this come from us in quarter 2. On terms of our -- we spoke about the right client, right product approach. Sampath mentioned about the FAMA Model. We have taken one more step. We have actually gone ahead. And for all our third-party products, we have developed a model framework, which we are getting audited by a third-party completely, an auditor saying that whatever is our model process of selection, is it right for the customer or not? So we're evaluating even the scoring model and getting it audited because ultimately, we are custodian for our clients per se. Second thing we are doing is we had -- in terms of allocations, we'll continue to follow the open architecture. The service-first approach, I think MD spoke about it in the morning. We're moving to a service-first approach. Each client has also a service RM, an RM which a client can reach out to you at 24/7 literally. And we spoke about the fact that the -- it's a holistic offering per se. We wanted to give you -- this is again an information which has not been publicly discussed at all, but we'll give you this information at this stage. We've managed close to about INR 36 lakh crores in our total demat balances, out of which a customer that transits at least once a year is 8 lakh -- that AUM is INR 8,52,000 crores. Another 89% do transact at least once a year. So just to correct myself here, INR 8,52,000 is a retail customer base with at least -- which holds with us, out of which 89% do transact at least once a year in their folios. So by the same metric at which other wealth firms quote AUM, if we were to quote AUM, you can estimate what kind of AUM we are talking about. These are distributor trends. A lot of discussion happens on direct versus distributor model. The -- our B30 focus continues to be here because you can see the wealth continues to be in the distributor nature -- the distributor penetration in B30 is still strong, which is why we are focused on the B30 locations per se. And the AUM continues to grow. As you know, the AUM currently in the nonadvisory, nondirect model is about INR 21-odd lakh crores, out of which 78% continues to be investor distributor AUM as such. That's it. Thank you. I hand it over to Ravi, who will take it.

I used to work in telecom, and then I used to think that people using mobile phones in meetings are giving us a lot of revenues, right? At the end of the day, telecom revenues are when you use mobile phones. And earlier when data was not there, we used to not have anybody using mobile phones. Maximum is text, and text was very expensive. When data came into being, then we said, wow. Even in a closed room, we can get money. Now when I come into banking, I realized, in the same closed room, we can still make money. And that's what I'm going to tell you, how we are going to make money in a closed room in addition to what we do. I'll give a slightly different perspective. Everybody looked at it from a bank's perspective. You heard Sashi, you heard a lot of people talk about the entire breadth of the bank. I'll give you a consumer perspective of what a retail customer is looking for. How many of you think of a bank if you don't do this profession when you get up in the money? At least one person nodded saying, "I don't think of a bank." Anybody think of a bank that you bank with when you get up in the morning on the right side of the bed, left side of the bed? But you think of 3 things day in and day out: I want to pay somebody. Isn't it part of your life every day? I need money. It is also part of our life. Somebody has to give me a loan. Somebody has to give me some credit. I have money. What do I do with this money? So these are the 3 things which a consumer is looking for. I want to make day-to-day payments. I need money. Can you help me with money? I have money. Can you help me invest? You saw a lot of conversations around all these 3 things. Whether Parag talked about payments and what we want to do on the payments and how we want to get into payments as a sector, as a very specific area is because this is what consumers are looking for. You get there. You will get a lot more. Arvind talked about retail assets. Rahul talked about the CRB and the corporate. They all want money. They all want services. So how do we get there? And wealth, I have money. Rakesh Singh talked about what we do with the wealth business. And all these things are built on 2 foundations for us. The one foundation is relationship management. You just don't go and ask anybody money, right? You just don't go and tell anyone, "Manage my money". You just don't go and transfer money to somebody. You do it only when you have a relationship, and that's what Arvind, Sampath and Smita all talked about in terms of what is the relationship that we build with our customers that enable us to create the second pillar, which is the experience pillar, which Anjani talked about, in terms of how do we create an experience, both physical, digital, phygital, all these kinds of models, to make sure what consumers are looking for from a bank is done. And I'm part of digital marketing team. So what is it, this marketing in a nutshell, do? Our job is to create traffic, quality traffic. People need to come into our branches. People need to come into our digital properties. We need to make sure our properties are inviting enough, that you want to come in and see what's there. So that's the first pillar of what we do. Once you come in, if you come into my house and if I call all of you people in, do -- should I just ask you, "Hi, hello, how are you?" or should I just say, "Hello, XYZ. What is it?" Should we not have a personalized conversation? So the next step is whoever is walking into your property, how much of a personalized conversation that you can have? And I will explain to you how do we do that in this. Why do you want to have this personalized conversation? To build relationships and also to make sure the consumers know what you have as offer, to nudge them to see what is on offer in your shop. I'm sure all of you go and buy dresses. Assume that you are going and buying a dress for a marriage. First time you go into the same shop, same Manyavar, you finish looking at something and then say, "I'll come back again." When you go back, if that person starts the conversation from the time you let -- last time you came, you saw this, there is something new which has come in, you will enjoy that visit. If you have to start all over again, I don't think you'll love it. And that's exactly the conversation that we need to do to make sure we nurture customers to start evaluating our various financial products. And the last step that we do is how do we convert these conversations? How do you convert these experiences into meaningful, long-term, happy relationships? So the first thing is about brand. People walk into HDFC Bank. We reach out to them at many places. How does the brand behave? If you look at it, what is top box consideration from a marketing perspective? We go and ask consumers. This is our own third-party survey. We go and ask consumers, in the next 6 months, if you have to buy a banking product or service, who would you consider? Give me the names. I need it. Whatever name comes to the top of your mind, let us know. HDFC Bank's top box consideration was level in April 21, and you can see the number. It's around 21 now, 9 percentage point increase. In our parlance, this is a lead indicator for market share gains that's going to happen. Top 2 box consideration, you can see almost 55% of the market is saying HDFC Bank is either #1 or #2. Whatever payment product they're looking for, whatever lending product people are looking for, whatever wealth management product people are looking for, that's the power of the 27 years of work that has happened in this place. And this is purely 27 years of hard-core relationship building and experience that we have created that is giving us this kind of stuff. And it's a sum total of all the interactions and experiences that we have created. How much traffic is actually coming? I'll take only one example. I'll give you more numbers later. What's the kind of visits that we have in our website? 8 crore people walk into our website alone in a month. Imagine the number of people walking into our shop to look at something. So what we need to do? Make these 8 crore people have personalized conversations with us. And if you look at it, there's a small line below, which is the search engine optimization, meaning how much of people are looking for HDFC Bank on their own on the website, in the Internet world. And that's why I said I'm so happy that all of you are in your laptops and mobile phones. If you're searching for a product, for a service, and that's the kind of numbers. That's the kind of percentage of traffic that we get, and that's the power of brand, which relates so much of traffic coming in. I'm going to show you some more numbers and what we do with this traffic a little bit later. Arvind talked about passionately on NBA. So we have an advanced analytic engine. We have a cloud-based engine called SparkBeyond, which we have implemented. We are one of the few banks in the world which has implemented a complete analytics solution on the cloud. What does it do? We have all the transactions, and this is one of the famous things that I keep hearing from a lot of people. Banking is all about trust. Would you all agree? You're all putting your money. I see a lot of [indiscernible] here. But when you go and ask today, nobody believes in India anybody has taken their money and run away, except for cooperative banks maybe. The rest of the places, your money has never been taken out. You always got the money back. Today, people are saying, "You know so much about me. You know how much I own, where I spend. You have my credit card details, which shop I spend on what. How can you not use all those stuff to make the conversation that you're having with me relevant?" That's the only question they're asking. If you are not having the relevant conversations, they don't trust you. Why? Because in a human relationship, trust happens only when both of us have relevant conversations. Every time you talk something, which is absolutely which we have never talked about and is unrelated, would I ever trust you? And let me trust you as a human being because you don't know anything about me. Same way a brand has to create the trust by having meaningful conversations. We have first-party data as a bank. We have everything about you. We have 13 channels in which consumers interact with us, whether it is the VRM channel or phone banking channel, which Sampath talked about, the brand channel, which Arvind, or all digital channels. Today, our AI engine on a daily basis takes all the feedback from all the channels, all the customer interactions, puts it together along with the transaction behavior and then predicts what is the intent that the customer has. Arvind talked about multiple NBAs that we have created. And when we do this, this context does it for all the physical channels also, which is there in the CRM for our agents and our relationship managers to have a conversation with the customer. And it's also done on the digital channels across all our properties. Then what do we do? Once the customer, in love with our brand, comes into our property, we personalize the conversation. You ask them to explore the financial products. We have lack of -- a lot of data. Our journeys, which Anjani showcased, they're all on the basis of new age platforms. These platforms skew data in terms of how many customers are walking in, what are they doing in each of these properties, which step they are looking at dropping off, why, all these things. With this, we have a preapproved product. We sell that directly to the customer. Customer walks out. There is 0 human touch, which means in your financial language, low C2I. If we are not able to give that product because we don't have a preapproved offer, we give it to the underwriting team for them to do a manual underwriting. There is a phenomenal effort which is going on to convert this manual underwriting into what we call as decisioning on the fly. You saw that happen in the auto loans. So if you come and today you give all the data to us, we are in a position to take a credit decision on the fly, which means today, whatever has got a higher cost of acquisition, as we invest and make sure the decisioning on the fly capability happens, we will have a far lower cost of acquisition. And we will reap our benefits. How do we know this works? And these are the numbers. You look at the unassisted digital contribution penetration here. First one, 2 journeys, we started at 28%. Today, we are at 48%. Absolute numbers have increased. Number of people coming on their own and taking these products have increased. This is on 2 journeys, which is limit enhancement and upgrade on cards. What happened to the sale of a credit card? We launched the journey in March. Compared to March and May, we have gone, in unassisted contribution, up by 84%. Because of the phenomenal journeys that have been built, people who walk in, come in, go through the process, take the cards and go away. In the case of personal loan and business loan, we have a 71% lift in 2 months flat. And as we add more journeys, this channel is going to grow in leaps and bounds because that's the consumer behavior. There's a huge amount of technology from the marketing side, from the digital side, which goes behind all this stuff. We have invested heavily. We will continue to invest, and we'll make sure that every instance of a consumer interaction that happens with the bank get into our analytical models. That enables us to predict what is the intent of the customer, bring them on to our properties, get them, have a personalized conversation with us and make sure we have journeys in which they actually go through and take the product, which results in lower cost of acquisition. What happens when we use growth hack? We call this process growth hacking because the data is available, right? I have a team of people, all [indiscernible], who are very, very good in data and consumer insighting. We just look at this data on a daily basis and see the kind of growth rates we have in terms of conversion rates. From a 3% when we started on a loan on card, we already moved up to 7%. 7% visits to conversion ratio is phenomenal. It's phenomenal for a loan. And if I have to look at visitor to conversion ratio, it is 24%. People take multiple visits to come in and do it because it's easy to go ahead and through the journey. When we go back to customers and look at why they're dropping off after looking at their EMI, we come to know when we converse with the customers, they tell us, "I'm thinking how to pay this back. What is it that I need to do? Because I'm going to take the money. Money will come instantaneously. From next month, I had to pay INR 20,000 every month. What is it that I need to compromise on?" That's where the nudges that we have helps in terms of how do we actually convince, that small push to do it. We have a phenomenal amount of A/B testing. We create multiple experiences. Anjani talked about an experience for Christmas and an experience for Diwali. We can create an experience for every individual customer. That's the power of technology we have. 90% of our website visits today are personalized. Out of the 80 million that you saw, 90% is personalized. The 10%, we can't personalize because we can't identify who the person is, because people keep removing their cookies and come back. We are already live with 10 journeys. Another 17 is going to be done in this year, including NTB, which is the decisioning on the fly on credit cards and PL. Auto loan is already done, and you will see us come out. What's a big opportunity in terms of the universe that we see? I only talked about one example of our website, which is 8 crores visitors. We also have mobile banking and net banking logged-in sections. We get 12 crore visitors a month there. Imagine between these 2 properties, we have 20 crore people walking into our store. This 20 crore people, when they're walking in, what we need to do is to invest in technology to personalize the conversation. And just to give you some more numbers, 5.5 million is the customer visits on website purely for -- that's for personal loan. 1.1 million is for savings account. There's a small gap. 5.5 million customers are coming to our website looking for personal loan. 3.5 million customers are coming for credit card, looking for credit card. 1% conversion, you do the maths. You people are good at maths. 2% conversion, you do the maths. We have to just nurture these customers because not everybody is going to buy the product at the day when they are going to look at it. That's the power of what we have today. This is the kind of traffic we have, how much we are going to go ahead and make sure the experience that we create for all these people is so damn easy that they can just go ahead and complete the transaction. And we strongly believe we will continue to build digital end-to-end fulfillment, which Anjani and everybody talked about. We will growth hack. We will look at each and every drop-off, and we will have automated ways of engaging with them. We call it growth hacking in our group. We'll grow our iconic brand, HDFC Bank. And with the merger, we see much more possibilities going forward. Digital discoverability in the website or in the Internet world, we'll continue to invest. And we'll continue to invest in the bedrock of advanced analytics to help us make ourselves an experienced business. My last words. We strongly believe if your business is not an experienced business, you are not in business anymore. And our job collectively is to make sure the banking that we do becomes a phenomenally great consumer experience business. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. This comes to an end of today's session. Now I would like to invite Ms. Madhu Chhibber, Head of Corporate Communications, for closing remark.

Good evening, everyone. Once again, my name is Madhu Chhibber, and I look after corporate communications. Thank you all for having joined us today for our annual analysts meet. I hope you've been -- we've been able to share our vision and road map from -- ranging from business strategy to technology to customer centricity, what Ravi was speaking about, to organization culture, what we spoke about in the morning to various other things. I think that they gave us all an opportunity to meet in person after a very long time, interact and most importantly, hear from you. We value the time that you've committed to the event, and thank you once again. In case there are any further questions that you would like to ask, I'd encourage you to stay in touch with our Investor Relations team. I won't stand between us and tea anymore and request you to join us for a cup of tea before we end the day. Thank you.